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    Silver

    “Government Wants to Control Your Car” and Prevent You From ‘Tinkering’ Under DMCA Copyright

    Mac Slavo
    May 8th, 2015
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (200)
    Read by 13,642 people
    Photo: U.S. Dept. of Energy (public domain)

    Photo: U.S. Dept. of Energy (public domain)

    Think you own your car? Think again.

    How much do we truly “own” of our own lives, anyway?

    With income taxes, property taxes on homes and property, manipulations and interventions of the markets, the food supply and health care, education and many other areas, we may ultimately own very little. For now, our souls remain out of reach.

    Automobiles, our ability to legally drive and our inherent freedom to travel are all under systematic attack.

    Buying a car no longer means that you have own it, use it, alter it or modify it. Restrictions on drivers and advanced traffic monitoring are being met with the trickle down effects on auto manufacturers – the rules for emissions, safety standards and environmental regulations are being used to prevent individuals from tampering with computer-regulated motor technology.

    It puts a whole new spin on the concept of the engine governor.

    In a forward thinking post, auto/libertarian blogger Eric Peters wrote:

    The government wants to control your car – how it’s made, what it comes equipped with and (of course) how you’re allowed to drive it. Now comes the other half of the pincers:

    The car companies want to prevent you from working on the thing.

    Modifications – performance enhancements – and even routine maintenance are to become illegal via the application (and enforcement) of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) to cars.

    They are claiming propriety rights to the software embedded in the computer – technically, the Electronic Control Unit or ECU – that pretty much runs a modern car. They claim – and you knew this was coming, right? – that saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafety is threatened by people doing their own maintenance or tweaking/tuning as such might affect how the various saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafety systems embedded in the car and controlled by the ECU operate.

    Safety.

    The straight jacket is slowly tightening – and, as usual, it is in the name of safety, security and peace of mind.

    Your rights of mobility have been restricted by the rules placed on state-licensed vehicles, on environmentally regulated engine parts, and by computer-monitored sensors that act as a black box for authorities, and check for vehicle compliance on these and other matters.

    Peters points to a statement from the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers (a group to which all the major brands belong) arguing against allowing customers to “jailbreak” vehicles as they have done mobile phones:

    Automobiles are inherently mobile, and increasingly they contain equipment that would commonly be considered computing devices. Proponents did not mention in – vehicle telematics systems (or any other aspect of motor vehicle systems) when describing the proposed class, and no commenter has submitted evidence in the record that would support an exemption that covers such systems. Nonetheless, Auto Alliance urges the Copyright Office to ensure that vehicles are not inadvertently swept into the exemption.

    The security implications of action in this proceeding to permit the circumvention of access controls on vehicle electronic control units (“ECUs”) is particularly troubling. Many of the ECUs embodied in today’s motor vehicles are carefully calibrated to satisfy federal or state regulatory requirements with respect to emissions control, fuel economy, or vehicle safety.

    Allowing vehicle owners to add and remove programs at whim is highly likely to take vehicles out of compliance with these requirements, rendering the operation or re-sale of the vehicle legally problematic. The decision to employ access controls to hinder unauthorized “tinkering” with these vital computer programs is necessary in order to protect the safety and security of drivers and passengers and to reduce the level of non – compliance with regulatory standards

    Vehicle telematics, by the way, literally involved tracking and diagnostics in the vehicles equipped with computer ECU units. That’s what it is all about. As Wikipedia notes, the major application of vehicle telematics centers around vehicle tracking – “monitoring the location, movements, status and behaviour of a vehicle or fleet of vehicles.”

    Now, DMCA copyright laws will compound the already strict requirements on car manufacturers to hamstring the ability of an individual to work on or modify their own vehicle.

    Doing so would be noticed by the vehicle tracking systems, and would violate these regulations – prompting fines, legal action or even vehicle kill switches, disabling the car and preventing the owner from using it at all.

    And now – drum roll, please – government (egged on by the car companies, which are big cartels and becoming indistinguishable from the government) has the right to criminalize any “meddling” by you with the car that could even theoretically compromise the saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafety of the vehicle.

    Or its emissions output.

    Or its gas mileage.

    It will be become an actionable offense to use more gas than you’re allowed. Notwithstanding you paid for it. High-flow injectors? A conical air filter? $500 fine. Or maybe they just seize the car.

    Or, just turn it off – remotely.

    Essentially, you are free in so far as you are under their thumb and in compliance with any number of regulations.

    You will make the payments – but you will only be allowed to use the car as decreed. And the enforcement mechanism is already in place.

    It is already in the car.

    Maybe time to get back to that classic car in the garage… just needs a couple of basic parts and some tweaking.

    Click here to subscribe: Join over one million monthly readers and receive breaking news, strategies, ideas and commentary.
    Advanced Tactical Gas Mask
    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post

    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 13,642 people
    Date: May 8th, 2015
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

    200 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. BigB says:

      We own nothing! Not even our children. We have no rights we only have privileges. We are nothing but a number or a manifest number. Nothing more than a worker unit that produces for the greater good. We have been sold down the road by our government.

      BigB

      • apache54 says:

        this country has been lost for a long time, just most people were still assleep ( spelled on purpose) while it was happening! time to take it back and hang-em all for treason, sorry just have had enough BS from the politician scumbags and the STUPID ASSLEEP SHEEP!!enough is enough!

        • Paranoid says:

          As they said a few years ago: “Kill them all, let God sort them out”.

        • Im an Embedded systems engineer. What they are talking about is very do able. Easy and doesn’t need 1000 agents monitoring it to keep it running. We do it today already with fleets and in stationary conditions with factories. Most GM cars are already equipped with OnStar which already does everything described.
          However. If they do do something like this then you will see programmable after market ECM,s appear which will be plug and play with the OEM units. Perhaps sending them erroneous data or a simple Dead Battery alarm.
          Another item is that most code is not written by a company specifically for their Device. Pieces come from here and there as drivers or are just plain cut and pasted from someone else’s program. It is just the way it is. It would be impossible for anyone to prove in court that the application in its entirety belongs to them. If they don’t own 100% of it their claim is invalid.

          • nunya says:

            This is an easy thing to overcome. Simply rip out everything that they consider to be copyrighted material and replace it with aftermarket products. If they don’t allow that then refuse to purchase a product that doesn’t allow tampering. If you can’t do anything to it then it’s not yours…Why pay for it?

      • Zero says:

        I’ll show the ones that come trying to take my family death. I know what youre saying though BigB

        • Gregory8 says:

          Pure paranoia, they can’t keep track of who’s in this country, let alone anything else that’s going on. I hate to keep repeating myself, but Snowden, a 29 y/o contract worker walked out the front door of NSA with most of their date and was half way around the world (Hong Kong) before they blew the whistle. It took them 7 weeks with 1,000 cops with all the top gear to find one guy hiding in the hills of Pennsylvania. Postal Worker flies his gyrocopter from Pennsylvania, across Maryland, and lands in front of the Capitol Building. These guys (Feds) are “Super-trooper”, the more like Super Poopers. Nothing to see here folks.

          • buttcrackofdoom says:

            on the other hand, if they WANT to find someone, …or someTHING, all they gotta do is pull out their ace-in-the-hole…their lapdogs, the MEDIA, owned by the powers that shouldn’t BE….and they got it/them in no time flat!….and don’t forget, faster and faster computers WILL allow them to keep track of sooo much more…..and SOON….yes we are paranoid, but are we paranoid ENOUGH?!!!!

          • Son of Liberty says:

            I DO understand what you are attempting to say (I think), but there is something to say. Not all the technology was utilized that is available in the examples you cite. Like a rifle, it has to be sighted in, and aimed at a target. When done like this – it’s almost a done deal.

            Sad to say.

            Blessings,

            Son of Liberty

          • Skeptic says:

            G8;
            I agree. Much like that guy Dormer shut down California.

      • Rodster says:

        I work on cars for a living and I can tell you this article is accurate. In fact the trend the last 10 years is to design cars that discourages anyone other than the dealer or repair shops from working on their vehicles. They have purposely made them overly complex to discourage tinkering.

        • Yankee by birth, Southerner by choice says:

          Thanks for the input Rodster. What type of vehicle would you recommend for someone that has a good working knowledge of engines, etc…but is also definitely not at your level?

          I have been looking for a late 1970s-early 1980s Ford pickup so that way I will always have a vehicle at my disposal that cannot be hacked/shutdown/controlled by others. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

          • Old Guy says:

            I drive 60 thru 72 chevy trucks. Every part is available and easy to find. nothing complicated about them. I convert mine to electronic ignition.

            • lower40 says:

              i drive a 1940 pickup 305HO 5 speed ,3 wires(2 if i push start it) ,alt ,starter ,dist ,carburated ,no p/s no ac(unless i open the cowl vent) no pb ,nothing to break ,26 mpg ,cruises smooth at 80 on the interstate ,its beat with primer nothing to hurt on it,very utilitarian and i love it

            • marvthemartian says:

              The 2004, 2005 and 2006 Pontiac GTO’s are made in Australia and have no black box, no OnStar, no GPS with an OBDll ECM. If you have an 04 with a 6 speed and disable the ABS brake system it can’t be controlled remotely. The 05 and 06 has a electronic throttle body but if they were controlling it remotely and it is a 6 speed just push the clutch and put it in neutral until you can get the car stopped and unhook the harness from the throttle body.
              With a HP Tuner the tune can be tweaked easily and returned to stock at will.

          • otis cambell says:

            Yankee, Anything pre electronic BS. Easy to maintain & EMP proof also.

          • Rodster says:

            If possible anything below 1970 vehicles as those did not use electronics that made the vehicle susceptible to EMP strikes. One of my favorite cars and they are hard to find now is the 1970 Monte Carlo. I love that car even though it was a gas guzzler.

        • Wilson says:

          Rodster,
          Guess it’s time to find a good pre-computer era car.

        • smokey says:

          They certainly are a lot more complex, but with a good manual and the right tools, even a non-motorhead like me can do some involved diagnosis and repair to a modern engine.

          As long as it’s remove and replace, it’s not that tough.

          I draw the line at anything like a rebuild, though.

        • Gregory8 says:

          Rodster: Please tell us a little more if you can. In the book “Patriots” one of the characters of the preparedness group didn’t go to college but became an expert mechanic. He taught all the others how to fix and beef up their vehicles for off-road duties. He talked about older vehicles because they were easier to work on and they weren’t subject to EMP problems because they lacked any computer components. Your thoughts please?

        • ford man says:

          have a ’78 ford f-150..no electronics…simple engine..do own maint…have 275889 miles…runs great…26 mpg..pass emmisions every time…get back to the real machines…

      • Acid Etch says:

        Motorcycle trip: OBX

        I just rode my motorcycle to the Outer Banks for vacation. The hurricane is brewing. We got a downpour combined with sunny beach weather today. Monday and Tuesday is the expected landfall of the storm. I am hoping for a massive surge but this bitch will probably just dissipate with my luck.

        I am WISHING for SHTF.

        I volunteered for the Red Cross disaster relief in Hurricane Wilma in FL.

        I love to see the scenes of destruction and carnage, to see people’s houses destroyed.

      • Acid Etch says:

        Only 10% of new cars have manual transmissions.

      • Stonewall Jackson says:

        I suggest you grow some backbone and take back your Freedom and your Rights.

      • Shootit says:

        1789 we were turned into a trust.

        When you register your vehicle you sign it over to the state.

    2. Lost In The C.R.C. says:

      The wealthy and those they install into political positions whose only concern is the agenda of the elite…sad…..sigh

    3. NOBODY says:

      Every vehicle I own qualifies to have vintage tags.
      Computers are the work of the Devil, and I’ll be damned if I will let Satin drive my car!!!
      No problem, the pukes will probably but a retroactive expiration date on all vehicles.

      • apache54 says:

        Nobody,
        why do you think they have pollution requirement tests in lots of cities and states so your vintage vehicle has to be discarded!

        • buttcrackofdoom says:

          but they DON’T have requirements for california cars that are built before 1973….there’s no smog required for the WORST-POLLUTING cars in existence!….one friggin’ 1970 vw bug puts out more pollution than at LEAST 10 new cars, if it’s RUNNING properly! if it has “problems”, and is running poorly, it’s more like 20 or 30 times…LITERALY !! the new cars put out virtually NO hydrocarbons, nox, or CO, yet we don’t even make the older cars do a check to make sure they are running correctly???….someday we will have to do a role-reversal, and start smogging the older cars, and STOP requiring smogs on newer cars.

          • Paranoid says:

            Get real, look at the numbers. Average car lasts less than 12 years. The only reason most of the old cars exist is no one drives them except on a nice weekend day. When I drove a 1976 Pinto they were everywhere shake any tree and Pinto parts fell out. Now I haven’t seen one in years. Same for the Intrepid, I had a few years ago, now my wife points them out if she sees one. You drive a car, it wears out, you don’t, who cares.

            • Braveheart says:

              Paranoid, old cars is what I have no choice but to settle for. I have an option right now to buy a 1989 GMC Sierra from one of my neighbors for $1000. I know the man and the truck. Been sitting since 2010, but it was started up last week and does still run. Needs some work, especially changing out the old fluids first before I start running it. There’s a shitload of old Chevy/GMC pickups from that era on the streets of Memphis running around every day. I can still shake any tree and Chevy/GMC parts fall out. You mentioned Pinto? There’s one mid-70s Pinto I know of in my area I see on occasion and I have no idea other than somewhere on the net where he finds parts for it. Amazing.

              • Paranoid says:

                Shake an OLD tree.

                • buttcrackofdoom says:

                  my opinion differs from yours, paranoid, because i’m hindered by the fact that i have been makin’ a living working on cars for 35 years now.

                  • buttcrackofdoom says:

                    pintos died because the story was they caught fire when rear-ended. vw bugs can be seen on a busy street in MY TOWN often. a 70 bug puts out 400 to 600 ppmillion of hydrocarbons(unburned fuel) when it’s running ok…a LOT more when it ISN’T….a 2000 and newer car typicly has near ZERO coming out the tailpipe. there aint a whole lot of money in MY town, and people drive a LOT of old cars, just to get around. thanks to the check engine light required since 1996, most cars will bug you until you fix it to get that light put out…yes, there a LOT of boneheads out there that will drive with the light on, but at least they get the “notification” that there’s sumthin’ wrong. tell me again why i should get a “pass” on gettin’ a smog if i drive a car that puts out more than 30 new cars?…and “because i own one” isn’t a real answer, now is it?…it’s ok for other people to pitch in and lower the smog, just as long as YOU aren’t required to help?….and it won’t be but another….ohhh, say TEN years, and the state/fed gubmints will REQUIRE car manufacturers to make it possible to shut down a car if the CEL is on, so it can’t be driven any more until you fix it! mark my words. aww hell, we won’t MAKE 10 more years until the economy cracks up anyways…

        • Emissions? Move to the sticks. They don’t test em.

          I have a 94 chevy pickup with the last year of OBDI. I take the computer codes off with a piece of jumper wire and look the “flash” code up in my Chilton’s manual and replace what’s needed myself.

          Truck has well over 200k on it and runs like a champ. The check engine light comes on when it warms up and the code says EGR valve is bad. lol. I just put a piece of electric tape over the idiot light so I can’t see it.

          Roll on Chevy truck….

          My REAL car has antique tags…no inspection and no registration and I drive it when I want and I can start it with a screwdriver across the solenoid if need be.

    4. Plain Old American says:

      Time to look for another 51 Chevy pick up. I can make it run til I’m dead.

    5. eppe says:

      Horse and buggy anyone???
      Full circle of life…

    6. Anonymous says:

      From a legal liability standpoint this is actually reasonable.

      Whether or not those legal liabilities should be there in the first place is a different question, but they have been demanded by the people and enacted by their elected representatives who set up agencies (bureaucracies) to define exactly what they mean and how they are carried out.

      If enough people find these rules objectionable and simply refuse to buy or drive these regulated vehicles they will go away and what people want will be sold instead. But new car sales are booming like the rest of the economy so people are obviously getting what they want.

      • Cellar Spider says:

        @Anonymous,

        Dude, you’re too funny…..

        The average age of car on the road today is 11 years old. The average person has to put 5 – 10% down to buy a car….and most can’t do that.

        Therefore, the “market” says that they can trade in their current vehicle and lease the new vehicle for 24 months and 24000 total miles. Watch the TV Commercials and read the fine print.

        Of course after the leases are done, the car companies then sell the “off lease” vehicles to the rent a car companies… who then take a loss on their “older” rent a wrecks.

        The only entity that is buying cars from the car companies is the government…and how ironic…the government owns the car companies (excluding ford)….I hope everyone hasn’t forgotten that. Take a look around at the government cars…They’re chevy (and some chrysler/fiat). Maybe there are some fords but not many.

        Bottom line….New car sales aren’t booming at all. With 96+ million people out of work, no one is buying cars. Stop propagating Myths and look at the realities.

        “New Car Sales Are Booming”….what a crap ass lie.

    7. Hout/cypress/Katy/shtf says:

      Oh they car computers do all the driving for us. Yea, now they want to control your car by computer. What happens when
      The AI”arificial intelligence” take over your car and drives you and your family to the so called designed area for processing..those dumb Azzes think we stupid enough to to let then do that, haa haha, yes right.

    8. Braveheart says:

      Before I first got into company vehicles, all I ever had was old technology. Every old car I bought was on ‘life’ support’ when I first got it, but I knew how to ‘support the life’, aka keep it going as long as possible. with little or no electronics, they were easier and cheaper to keep running. If I have to go back to that, so be it.

      • OutWest says:

        My first pickup was a ’40 Ford.
        Since then I’ve had them all the
        up to the present ’98.
        Man! My future’s so bright I have
        to wear dark sunglasses.

    9. Kevin2 says:

      I stopped turning a wrench doing any maintenance above oil changes when computers were incorporated. Back in the day with a 283 Chevy or its 289 Ford equivalent where you can see the asphalt under the car when you pop the hood they were very easy to work on. Damn fine V-8s they were.

    10. Ticked says:

      I guess I’ll just find a ’63 Ford Falcon.

      • OutWest says:

        Ticked LOL
        I had a ’60 Ford Falcon Futura.
        Great car! Three on the tree
        6 cyl. Wish I still had it.

        • There’s a 63 falcon on the Spokane craigslist in the barter section for 2000$ or trade. pretty clean too.

          • passinwiththewind says:

            Now there is a flashback.

            My first experience of getting out of the house with some buddies and riding around the backroads, was in my older friends, 1960 Ford Falcon.

            Saturday evenings was always an adventure as we would all pile in, listening to some new 8 tracks, like the Four Seasons and The Grass Roots, etc.

            After dark, we would ride down to the old part of town to a family run grocery & Butcher store, and buy beer and wine. If we couldn’t scrape enough bucks for beer, it would be cheap wine like Mad Dog or that cuss-ed Orange Drive (20% alcohol) and get sickly shit faced.

            I’ll never forget the day the old Falcon came pulling into the driveway without any rust showing on the fenders and hood/trunk, because it had a new paint job.
            My friend had paid his sisters to paint the whole thing in barn colored green………with brushes!

      • sixpack says:

        I had a bright red 64 ford fairlane, with an upper control arm bushing going out.

        Traded it for a 69 ford torino, white over baby blue, 351 cleveland with a slapstick and a busted motor mount…yahoooooooo!

    11. TheGuy says:

      Meh the thing don’t run right if you start effing around with the tuning anyway. All the ECU is doing is the same crap you used to do when you tweaked your carburetor settings. Yes there are sensors in there, basically they’re telling the ECU how to “tweak the carburetor”.

      FORCING you not to ok that’s some BS there. And let’s face it, the damned thing ain’t gonna pass smog if you start effing around with glass packs and tweaking the fuel/air ratio and all that garbage, so… selling it? Already off the table. Operating it for greater than two years? Same.

      But hey man if you wanna eff up your car by all means, it is in fact yours.

      The telemetry thing, ok that I have a major major problem with. Kill switch, same.

      • texasprepper says:

        Not necessarily true. I own a 2006 GMC 3500 Duramax diesel. It DOES NOT have Onstar. I have modified the intake with an Airaid intake, modified the exhaust system with a Banks 4″ free flow exhaust and use a Superchips programmer to reprogram the ECU. With these modifications I can gain about 150 HP and about 450 more foot pounds of torque depending on the level of reprogramming I do with the Superchips programmer. I have been running this truck like this for a couple years now and have had no problems with the drive train or passing the annual inspection. I did these modifications mainly for more power while towing. Since I am towing an RV a lot I don’t set up the ECU for the “race day” setting as I call it as it could cause problems with exhaust Temps getting to high. I am currently set in “towing mode” which adds about 65 HP and 200+ fpt. The Change in intake and exhaust systems adds another 45 HP and 105 fpt. The only real problem is keeping tires on the truck, especially when I max out the ECU programming with the Superchips programmer. The truck flat out runs like a scalded ape then. I would have never believed a diesel could run like it does with these modifications.

        • buttcrackofdoom says:

          i remember my 99 beetle turbo…all i had to do to take it from 150hp to 190hp, was to add a 400$ chip….man, that car came ALIVE! enjoyed the HELL out of stompin’ all those toyotas and hondas into submission(and a LOT of other cars)….and i’m willin’ to BET there are still people out there willin’ to “wake up” your newest turbo cars for a SMALL fee!

    12. Plan twice,prep once says:

      The government has the car companies installing all kinds of tracking equipment in cars. The ulterior motive is the government wants to prevent people from disconnecting the spy equipment the government uses to watch and listen in on you.

      • Joe in JT says:

        Ding ding ding! You nailed it. The governments GPS and audio and video spy equipment built right in to new cars. Complete with a kill switch. Also….something very interesting. Since everything on new cars is “fly by wire” …meaning no cables and very little mechanical, everything is digitally controlled. They can floor your car while you’re driving it and there’s not a darn thing you can do to turn if off. You go 130 mph until you crash into a bridge. And no body will ever know.

        • nopittypartyhere says:

          thats the shit that scares me. some psychopath computer nerd can hack your car and kill you on the interstate just for fun. nevermind the gubermint

          • Braveheart says:

            NPPH, there is a solution for that. I had an accelerator stick on me once on a 1964 Pontiac Bonneville. I put the car into neutral and pulled it off the road. Had to walk a few miles to get to a pay phone [no cellphones, this was in the late 80s] and call a wrecker. The main thing is try not to panic. What I did saved my ass and my car. BTW, that Bonneville was a convertible. wish I had that sucker back now and that was the only real problem I ever had with the car.

    13. Sha-knee-qua says:

      Kick the Kenyon Squatter out of the Whitehouse and country!!!

    14. Hout/cypress/Katy/shtf says:

      Yea they want to eliminate cars, it’s. Makes it easier for the cabal to control the herd and keep them imprisoned in the so called compact cities. See hunger games, this is their plan..rat bastards are something else. Sounds like quartering and containment of populous to me.

      We will be in a full blown civil revolutionary war with this people it’s unavoidable. They make decision with no oversight from the people as if we don’t even exist. This is not going to go on much longer. Anyone not seeing what’s is happening is literally living with their head in their azz.

    15. clinthospo says:

      If people simply would all bond together all of us and make a statement we could put an to this quickly. If all of us just held the car we have or buy a way older car and NEVER purchased any new cars they would be forced to discount them huge at first, then government would have to throw in big tax savings, that would tell them we are not taking this crap. It will have to take all of us to do it but I doubt that will ever happen. Too many people only think of themselves and try to screw anybody anyway they can. I see it getting worse and worse each day. People use to be so kinder only a few years ago, no nobody seems to even talk or help people like we used to. As our society degrades so will everything else. Culture against culture and race against race.

      • Joe in JT says:

        The average American pulls into a car dealership and gets talked into buying a new car by the salesman in 20 minutes. All the dope cares about is “the monthly payment”. When the salesman tells them their FICO score is fine and we can get you financing….the dumb American jumps for joy! “I’m approved for the loan and the car payment is $350 a month”….hurray! The buyer doesn’t even know how much the cars price is. He’s locked in to a 6 year car loan with a balloon payment on the final year. And his insurance will cost $125 a month…but he doesn’t think of that …yet. This is how most people buy cars.

        • buttcrackofdoom says:

          that’s how they buy vitually EVERYTHING nowdays…washer, home, carpet, tires….how much will the PAYMENT be?

        • nopittypartyhere says:

          I go to fightingchance.com get a true value report from a former insider who knows how the “invoice pricing” work and that its total bogus bs. then he explains how to request bids and save THOUSANDS.

        • Braveheart says:

          Joe, there’s not a lender anywhere that will let any salesman put me in a new or even close-to-new car. My income level is too low to qualify for loans and I have no payment history to show for any type of loan or even credit card.

          • NorthGeorgiaIdiotsCousin says:

            Yeah Cuz you always was a deadbeat. Somethings never change. Besides that, they would be afraid if you didn’t pay that you would shoot the Repo Man.

            • Braveheart says:

              NGIC, f#$% you! I’m not a f#$%ing deadbeat. I’ve always paid my other bills on time. I’ve just never been qualified for any type of loans or credit cards. I really don’t give a shit about that. I’m debt-free and won’t apologize for it. Lay down that crack pipe.

      • Braveheart says:

        Clint, sad to say but true. Every other day someone is trying to pull a scam on me and I resist it every time. You don’t know how many times I’ve come close to really hurting someone over it when they get so persistent. I still try to help someone in need on occasion as long as they’re not a drunk or crackhead. I’ve already had that problem with a few women I had in the past and won’t have it again.

    16. Ass hat says:

      Stop buying vehicles drive the same car. people trade in way before it’s time nowadays.

    17. Hammer's Thor says:

      Change the fluids regularly and ONLY use synthetic motor oil. Almost 500,000 miles on my Ford 5.4 and not even a new timing chain. I’ll NEVER buy another new vehicle knowing what they’re doing. Even if I had to replace the engine AND transmission it would be a fraction of the cost of a new truck.

    18. Blah, blah, blah…bring the first victim of ten forward and let the decimation begin.

    19. Sierra Dave says:

      I don’t think we have that long. But if I’m wrong and we make it to self driving car. The impact on society as the cops can no longer give moving violation tickets, will be huge.

      Insurance should go down when accidents drop. Peoples lives won’t be ruined for DUI. I guess with the lost revenue. Other code enforcement fees will skyrocket.

      Will be interesting.

      • Anonymous says:

        Lost ticket revenue will just be made up for with increased licensing, toll and mileage fees, a move already under way in some States.

      • smokey says:

        The cops will just have to find crooks to deal with, that’s all.

        I’ll bet license tabs for your new self-driving car will be $1000 a year, and expect gas taxes to double, at least.

        They make a lot of money on traffic fines.

    20. rednek101 says:

      Really don’t see this happening to the extent gov would be allowed to control you vehicle. Not in the long term. How long will it be before you have companies offering alternative ECUs? It’s already out there to some extent. A new model would come out and within a year aftermarket ECUs show up to replace the stock ECU. Disable outside comm ports and off you go. I think all that will happen is a new market opportunity will be created.
      Ain’t technology great.

    21. The Old Coach says:

      Having managed a Honda dealership in my disreputable past, I can tell you that the dealers are very much behind this. Car dealers make almost nothing selling the cars themselves. The profit centers are accessories, financing, and the service department.

      Oh, and real estate. I never knew a dealer who wasn’t doing shyster deals in real estate, aided by favors he would do for politicians, especially those on zoning boards. A $10,000 discount on a new $40,000 car? Tell me that’s not a bribe.

      I lasted 2 years in that job before my conscience told me the get out.

    22. Skeptical says:

      More bullshit from a site dripping with bullshit The vast majority of crap that shows up on this site is shown to be crap such as the Jade Helm propaganda. Yet, when the crap is debunked, there is not retraction and people still keep coming here lapping up the shit. No wonder America is going down the toilet. A significant percentage of its citizens are morons.

      • Anonymous says:

        Well, what about Jade Helm has been debunked?

        So far all I’ve seen anywhere are evasions and disclaimers from those on high that seem to reinforce a lot of the suspicions about it.

        As for me, other than recognizing this is a unique and suspicious training activity I have no idea what it is really about (but I’m fairly sure it isn’t what we’re being officially told).

        After answering that, how about telling us what is wrong about this article? It -the subject of the article- has been mainstreamed for over a month now, started with some farm tractor maker claiming a copyright on its tractor’s computer operating systems and has expanded from there. If it is to be debunked how about doing some of the debunking yourself with the real facts about it?

        • The Old Coach says:

          Mike Vanderboegh has a pretty good commentary on Jade Helm. He’s got to considered a credible source, since he’s the blogger who broke the Fast and Furious story. (sharing credit with David Codrea).

          http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2015/05/people-get-grip-jade-helm-is-not.html

          And while we are on the subject, why don’t you all know this already??? Are you all failing to read Sipsey Street Irregulars on a daily basis? If not, why not? Too many big words?

        • passinwiththewind says:

          This is a supposed comment about a DOJ leak, that was given to reporter by a military informer…..

          “…DIA that we will be invaded by ISIS, Iran, and their allies. I was looking at the original map for the Jade Helm mission. It looks as to me that the map is on the southern border because that is where we are going to be invaded. It’s not military exercises, it’s an excuse to use that part of the country to fight back. The military and government know that an invasion is near, and they’re just getting ready. Pretty soon you will start to hear talk about Iran taking over Israel, and possible invasions from the southern border. The map and mission are a distraction. The real reason Jade Helm is there is so they can literally, start a civil war with whom ever is going to invade. One things for sure, Texas, Southern California, New Mexico, and Arizona better get ready for a war.”

          I guess we will know for sure when the blood fills the streets.

          • rednek101 says:

            Sarcasm on>>
            We will be invaded??? Hell we already have 20MM illegals in country and we haven’t done a thing about it other that offer up amnesty. We can’t show the illegals such hospitality and exclude the ISIS boys. It might be construed ad racist. So I guess we’ll build the ISIS bunch a new Mosque when they get here so they will feel at home. Make sure they have a couple of ammo bunkers. One lead lined so their dirty bombs won’t jack them up while they’re waiting to be deployed.

      • rednek101 says:

        Well…uhmmm…Mr.Negative…yur mor tan welcum to go to another websight…

        A lot of what goes on here is conjecture. Makes you think. What if…. all the discussion, most of the time anyway, allows you to glean some valuable+- insight.

        Have a nice day!

      • If you are opposed to the current police state, go to Eric Peters autos and read up on some good commentary.

        If not, enjoy your servitude.

    23. Ass hat says:

      Why do people like old junk the things are gas pigs hard to get inspected. I used to have an olds cutlass it was a sled gas pig but comfortable as hell. It would float over the bumps in the road and the bench seats like a sofa. It was a nice car for the times. But I think the newer cars are better on gas and after all a car is for point a to b to me. I get manual shift trans if it’s available it’s cheaper too and me and the wife can drive it without tearing it up. I just won’t be without air conditioner screw that I remember those days as a kid. I find stick shift better on gas because you can drive it conservatively.

      • Old Guy says:

        I guarantee you my 55 chevy car is much more thansomething to get from point A to point B. I could sell it today for ten times what it cost new.

      • Archivist says:

        I had a 1986 Ford Taurus. It was the same model used in the movie Robocop. I got 30 MPG from the first tank of gas to the last one 5 or 6 years later. And it didn’t seem to matter how much of the driving was in-town or highway. It was a very comfortable car to drive.

        I wish I still had it.

      • Braveheart says:

        Asshat, when I was 14 I had to learn how to drive a stick first before I could learn an automatic. Except for Mustangs and Camaros, you can’t buy a new vehicle with standard transmission anymore, unless you special-order something. The demand for them is not what it used to be and you can’t get people to learn how to drive a stick anymore. My company used to have a whole fleet of 5-speed trucks, Nissans, Isuzus, etc. that I had to drive around town every night to make my living and I’m talking START-STOP CITY DRIVING FOR 10-12 HOURS. That is something that will wear you out. We finally had to change over totally to automatics in 2003 when people would no longer even learn how to drive a stick and we could no longer get stick drivers. We had to make the change, expensive as hell, but necessary to stay in business.

    24. Woogie says:

      This is why I keep old vehicles and don’t live in California. I kept my last 91 truck for 22 years until the tranny was acting weird and rust was getting the best of it only to find another old truck in better condition.

      The last I checked on my title it says I own my truck, and there are no co-owners on it, not General Motors or a computer company.

      The new trucks like my old brand name truck I paid $2,600 for are not worth the money with $37,000 price and monthly payments and interest, and full (liability) insurance payments required you have to pay over 7 years. That amounts to $48,000 over 7 years and I am not counting repairs. ….and not be able to modify it to improve it… Screw that!

    25. Southpaw says:

      2For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. 3While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. -1 Thes 5

    26. otis cambell says:

      That’s why I have a 69 ford p/u. easy to work on, emp proof, & dependable.

    27. Babycatcher55 says:

      I wish I could find a pre-85 ford ranger…or similar. Shoot, I’d take another 53 Chevy like my ex hubby had….

      • Enemy of the State says:

        selling a real nice 53 -4 door chevy with a V8 conversion 10 bolt chevy rear end and th350 trans
        the vehicle has under 40,000 miles on the original running gear and body

    28. Ass hat says:

      Agreed woogie new trucks are a lot of$. Mine is an 2004 with 70 k on the clock it runs good and is paid for still looks new too. Haven’t really put $ into it just maintenance tires brakes battery muffler just stupid shit really. I bought it new so I’m the only owner and I know how Its been treated. I’m not buying shit as long as I can get away with it. Been without a vehicle payment for 5 years so far. I’ve saved the car payment plus I feel. I only buy ford trucks I’ve had very good luck with them. The new ones are like you said $37000 you can get them down to 30000 if you’ve done your homework. They don’t want you getting the power of full size out of a compact truck. Your gonna pay for the power.

    29. solus lupus says:

      Princeton Study:

      “The U.S. Congress literally doesn’t care what you think!”

      * Can’t help but wonder how much they’ll care when they are all lined up by a American Freeman Patriot Militia at the point of bayonets on the edge of a mass grave pit on the white house lawn, reserved for AIPAC MEMBERS and once free Zog American Traitors?

      The time for another American Revolution is here, NOW!

    30. GrandpaSpeaks says:

      THE Powers recognize but do not acknowledge the “real world” anymore in their overt quest for domination of the human domain. What about field repairs? Do these new vehicles never break down? In the real world this type of legislation is life threatening. Over rides are critical because electronic systems are too fragile. Auto technology does not advance here, it is tyrannical fascism. Every new and old piston engine powered aircraft uses ancient magneto ignition technology. Why? Because that fan just has to keep spinning. It keeps the pilot cool. Real world baby. Where it can get 40 degrees below zero. Good start, lets go.

    31. The Prophet says:

      Have a 2013 Grand Caravan. Thought I would keep this until I died or couldn’t drive anymore. Will probably get rid of this just before the warranty runs out. No dip stick for trans fluid. They only want the dealer to check it. Computers run the trans. Shifting hard? The dealer just upgrades it on the computer. Only the dealer can do it. Or a trans shop that bought the program and will charge just as much after the warranty runs out. I’m going to buy an older truck (clean). Might put some hillbilly armor on the inside of the truck around the driver compartment. You never know.

    32. Fema8 says:

      Fine, If they want to keep the cars and trucks for themselves, DON’T BUY THE DAMN THINGS! Let them sit in the lots, rusting and wasting away. Buy a used car and the hell with a new car.

    33. Barn Cat says:

      The biggest concern should be the government’s ability to know who your friends, relatives, and acquaintances are based on where and when your cars are parked next to each other.

      I can’t afford a newer car. I buy older low mileage cars on Craigslist. My newest car is a 2000. My 1996 car has 41,000 miles on it.

    34. Captain Crunch says:

      Well now that’s just tough titties for the government !!!!!

      I installed a new exhaust on my Jeep YJ 4.0 this morning AND installed a new oil pressure sending unit on the engine.

      HAHAHAHAHAHA I hope they get all bent out of shape about that!!!!

    35. Ass hat says:

      Old guy my old man had a 57 bell air it was a cool car but was absolutely not practical transportation more like a novelty thing he paid way too much for it and when he was done with it he sold it for more than he paid so he came out ahead for sure. I think it was a midlife crisis he was going through. It was made out of iron so hooray for that those days are long behind us now. Can’t live in the past cars primary purpose is to get around . Cars are dime a dozen there is a dealership on every corner so don’t be afraid to walk away from a bad deal I walk if I’m not satisfied with the deal. When you get burnt on a car purchase you will not enjoy the car even if it’s new. Why should be happy when you paid too much. I see it all the time. A buddy of mine bought a corolla but paid the Camry price I told him he got burned he said that’s what they go for. I left it at that paying $4000 more than you should and your still happy. He don’t know how to buy a car. Dumb ass give me the $4000 and I get you the right deal. We will both be happy. I should go into business negotiating the sale of vehicles for dumb fucks I can make some $ on the side. $4000 I can get a new driveway put down new sidewalk I could use some more$. Some sales manager is laughing all the way to the bank I would too. In Massachusetts dealers can mark up the price of a car it’s termed adm advanced dealer markup but they don’t tell you that. It’s totally legal for them to do too. This is what my buddy fell for after I explained it to him he was pissed but could not get his $ back because he signed the contract and took delivery of the car.

      • Old Guy says:

        They still make brand new 57 chevy htps and convertables and brand new 55 htps. You can buy just the shell or a completed vehicle. the products are available to make any Tri Five Chevy better than any new vehicle you can purchase. any it will be more comfortable and drive better ,have ore power and use less fuel. New technology applied to older vehicles is something we car guys do very efficiently.

    36. Hout/cypress/Katy/shtf says:

      Will cars be working post EMP shtf?

      Maybe we may not have crap to worry about when it comes to cars. What we need to be coserned about is that post shtf is when the bastards run into the DUMBS, Then they use the satellites in orbit to do drone attacks on the survivors and this is what the AI, ‘artificial intelligence” is about. That system will run the extinction protocol..this may explain why we dropped form the deagle.com 35 million to my scientist version. Told to him after the clean up, 3-5 million. The satellites and drones, and bio weapons is what caused the global population of the planet to be at 250,000,000 in the aftermath..thats a lot of killing.we Better start finding some John Connors in our area and get ready for Terminator Genesis.

      • John Connors says:

        HCKS. Welcome to operation “TOP-GEAR” Agent Pod is programed to take care of your troublesome journey…Relax and enjoy your on-board entertainment… We look forward to seeing you soon.

    37. Ass hat says:

      Prophet the grand caravans are nice when they are new after 100,000 on the clock they go down hill from there. I think your doing the right thing selling before the warranty ends. You sound like you know the car game well. Just get a new van with a new warranty this is what I do for the wife she has a Kia Sedona and I’m gonna do the same thing as you trade it just before the 5 yr or 100,000 that seems to be the service life of late model vehicles nowadays. They are made to use then recycle throwaways. All the guys I work with have brand new f150s dodge rams or silverados me I’m still driving my little ford ranger with the worn out drivers seat it’s like a comfortable old pair of jeans.

    38. Michael says:

      The government is a corporation and a criminal organization. It uses violence, fear and intimidation to enforce non-laws upon the masses under the illusion of protection. It commits such crimes as money laundering, racketeering, murder, theft, drug running, arms sales, torture, kidnapping, assault, illegal spying, and ecocide. There’s not much difference between the government and the mafia. Time for a change? Indeed it is!

      • rednek101 says:

        non-laws?!? They’re real laws. Very real with very real penalties for not following their guidance.

        Are you one of them thar democratic socialists??? Kinda sorta sound like it. Demonizing the gov. Trying to attach all kinds of unsavory acts to the gov. Reeks of the vernacular used by certain types of folks to discredit the current gov, stir up discord.

        Is the change your proposing a communist gov? Are you on welfare? Do you think someone else should pay your way? If you answered yes to any of these questions, you might just be a Demoncratic Socialist.

    39. TEST says:

      Headlight went out on my 2013 Nissan Altima, so I took it to JiffyLube to get it changed. Basically, the have to take off the front fender to change it. Several places I tried said that same thing, as did the Nissan dealer when I brought it in.

      Just corroborating what is written above

    40. aljamo says:

      I’m still driving my 1991 japbox Tercel I bought new for $7500 total with 170,000 miles on it now. It runs fine with a little over a grand in repairs over the 24 plus years. It’s a 4 speed manual. I’m ready to attempt another trip out west from Florida, this will be the 7th trip in this small car to the west coast and back. I spoke with other owners of this same car, their clutch went out before a hundred thousand miles, mine still original. I’ve babied this car. Sounds risky to attempt this but what the hell, I only live once. If I can slip through the cracks and avoid the thieving cops looking to part me from my funds, I’m outta here.

    41. TEST says:

      And you thought Lois Lerner was bad?

      5 Minute Forecast noted today that “1,600 IRS workers “willfully evaded” taxes over a 10-year period. Few were fired, and some were promoted. The details come in a new report from the Treasury Department’s inspector general for tax administration. “Among their offenses,” reports The Associated Press: “improperly claiming dependents, repeated failure to file timely tax returns and claiming a tax credit for first-time homebuyers when the worker didn’t buy a house.” Still, in about 60% of the cases of “willful violations,” the violators were allowed to keep their jobs. Adds The Washington Times: “The inspector general took a sampling of 364 cases of intentional cheaters and found that 108 of them were not only not fired, but were given raises or promotions within a year of being found to be cheating.” The hits just keep coming from the inspector general: Back in February, we spotted another report that said from January 2010-September 2013, the IRS rehired “141 former employees with prior substantiated tax issues”… including five whom the IRS determined had willfully failed to file a return. “

      • And ObunglerNomics? Can we bring back Jimmy Carter… please? The real unemployment rate was much lower under him. Despite all the rainbows and unicorns with this week’s unemployment report, also per the 5, while they tell us, Goebbels like, that unemployment is now 5.4%, what they “forget” to tell you is that “The labor force participation rate barely moved from 37-year lows — the percentage of the working-age population in the labor force ticked up to 62.8%. the real-world unemployment rate — calculated by John Williams at Shadow Government Statistics — moved down microscopically to 23.0%. The number has hovered around that level for nearly three years now.
      John Rubino noted the following today:
      • Americans are still leaving the labor force
      • Most of the new jobs created are part-time
      • The vast majority of those are in services, which is to say waiters and bartenders and such
      • Most new hires are over 55
      For readers who want the whole depressing story, consider the following from Mish’s Global Economic Trend Analysis and Zero Hedge, which can generally be relied upon for this kind of quick-turnaround debunking of government pronouncements:
      Employment Report Much Worse Than It Looks
      Americans Not In The Labor Force Rise to Record 93,194,000
      In April There Were 26 Waiters And Bartenders For Every Manufacturing Job Added
      Payrolls Pump Deja Vu All Over Again
      Old Workers Hit New All-Time High As All April Jobs Go To The “55 And Older”

      On the plus side – if you are a leftist crony, that is – Obama buddy/corruptocrat Jon Corzine still hasn’t gone to jail for “losing” that $1.6 billion of investor’s money, George Soros, from the “I love to pay taxes” family of leftists STILL won’t pay $7 freaking billion in taxes he owes, and I assume Michelle Marie Antoinette Obama will be renting out the whole country of Lichtenstein this month for just her and 800 of her Chicago cronies.

    42. Ass hat says:

      All these old car stories I was at the teamster hall one day and this old retiree was telling me how spoiled we are as truckers. Then he told me about old trucks with no power steering no heat they had a drive chain and hanging from the frame near the drive chain was a bucket with a big brush. You would take the brush and slather grease on the drive chain every so often what a fuckin mess. Hard rubber tires your teeth would fall out before the day was over. These men were road warriors I really like listening to the stories. I think it makes them happy to tell them. When I hear guys crying over shit it makes me laugh what a bunch of bitches. My generation of drivers are a bunch of crying babies I get along with the old timers better. I’ve seen guys down right go home because they didn’t have a working air conditioner. Shit for one day it’s not gonna kill you. The whining shit has got to stop nobody cares it’s the nature of the job if you can’t handle it find a new line of work being a cowboy isn’t for you. I love the misery I wouldn’t trade it for anything.

      • The Old Coach says:

        I once drove a B-model Mack dumper for a week, helping a farmer friend at harvest. Good ol’ Justin, he loved collecting vintage equipment. The chain drive and the bucket of Vactra #2 is true. This one had power steering. You heaved ’till your eyeballs were about to pop on the 36″ diameter wheel until it started to turn a little, then the boost kicked and you nearly fell out of the seat! B-models were favored by loggers, for their weight capacity, but holeee cow, driving one fully loaded down some mountain road, top-heavy as hell, would have scared me sheetliss. I treasure the experience. Yes, I do.

    43. Boston Brakes? Control is in police state hands…

    44. Ass hat says:

      Ya brave shifting is a hassle but I feel a real driver knows how to do it. It’s not all that hard to do but this age of smart phones texting and driving and shifting hard to do. Minus the shifting easy to do. My company bought some automatic tractors the line haul guys love em. I’m a city peddler so I don’t really. We will see if the company likes them when it’s time to repair and that day will come soon. Kind of trying to cater to the people who can’t really drive a truck with this one. The next move will be driverless trucks the $ they would make then not paying comp insurance payroll medical insurance or pension. The day is coming probably late in my career nobody wants to do this kind of work anymore. There are easier ways to make a living.

      • Anonymous says:

        God bless Ass hats family and his garden.

      • Old Guy says:

        I always liked a 12.5 13 speed roadrangertrans and a caterpillar engine. plenty of powr in the lower gear,s and you had overdrive on the top end. load all you want on the rig. and in 1st gear it would tke off at idle on the steep grades. a very slow reverse made backing up easier. some of the automatic trucks have the same 9 speed stick trans and clutch. a compueter does the clutching & shifting.

      • Braveheart says:

        Asshat, driving a standard in start-stop city traffic was never something I enjoyed, but it was necessary and I did it to make my living. Never complained about it. I don’t recommend it to anyone now, what with the cellphones, texting, etc. I always enjoyed it more on the interstate when I could just have it in overdrive at highway speeds and a lot less shifting involved. Those were the days.

        • NorthGeorgiaIdiotsCousin says:

          Cuz you really shouldn’t be texting or using that cell phone while your driving. You need to be safe like your bud Acid, and take his advice. You know how he coasted to the curb on his bike before shifted gears, well you should pull over to the curb before you text.

    45. Mike in VA says:

      I don’t trust anything anymore. Not phones, the computer, my tax returns, my credit card, my bank account, my tv, my radio, my electric meter, the government ( both parties ), my county supervisors, my school board, my doctors, or my telephone.

      You can’t trust people unless they are your closest friends. At least I am blessed and still have a wonderful wife, two great sons, and three close friends I have known from early on in my life. I am truly blessed with that.

      I was watching Hee Haw on you tube last night. It is just so amazing how the world has changed since then. I also listened to several Jerry Clower Jokes. Times were so different.

      1 – We did not lock our doors.
      2 – My parents let us run off into the woods for the day but you had better be home for supper.
      3 – A handshake meant you signed a contract.
      4 – There were 3 channels on tv and if the president spoke that was all you had on tv.
      5 – We had family get together s to make homemade ice cream or eat watermelon.
      6 – If someone was in need then the community provided the help they needed.
      7 – Foul language was not spoken around women or children.
      8 – Spankings were given to children who misbehaved. Not only by the parents, but the neighbors, and the teachers at school.
      9 – kids had chores to do like getting wood in or feeding the cows.
      10 – Kids dreamed of being the president, astronauts, fire fighters, and policemen.
      11 – We played war for the fun of it and had toy guns. ( Cowboys and Indians too )
      12 – We said grace at every meal, went to church on Sunday and rested the remainder of the day, normally after a big Sunday meal of fried chicken.
      13 – Extended family was always welcome at the house and it was such a joy to see them.
      14 – We had an I.G.A. locally and a k mart 45 minutes away. We also had a Sears and Roebuck near the K mart. Lucky us.
      15 – If there was a dispute or fight then it was 1 on 1. Fist only. There was a code to it. May the best man win. Then the dispute was solved.

      Now I trust nothing, am asked not to pray with my shift, the doors are always locked, rarely do neighbors visit, and I have not had home made ice cream in 20 years. You would not dare let your kids stay gone all day. Foul language is common at any time, if you fight there will be more than 1 or guns and knives.

      What the hell happened to us.

      • AGENT SKINHEAD says:

        The leftist liberal scum are to blame. They’re hell-bent on the eradication of all manly ruggedness. Welcome to the confused world of totalitarian feminism. Trust me!

      • Braveheart says:

        Mike in VA, you bring back a lot of memories for me. We had similar conditions in my area. Except for my late wife, I’ve never trusted anyone. I’ve never depended on anyone but myself. It’s sad and disgusting to see where the country is going.

      • smokey says:

        Those days are gone, sadly.

        We trusted people, that’s what we did wrong. We trusted our school systems, our politicians, our business leaders, our journalists, our role models, to do the right thing.

        Instead, they stole our culture and our country from us, for a variety of reasons, but mainly because they think they are better than we are, and deserve to lose it.

        They will rue the day they started down that road.

    46. Wolverine says:

      The good ole days,,,
      I remember every winter draining the anti freeze into the street going into the storm sewer.
      Changing the oil and dumping it on the road to keep dust down.
      Friends dying in car crashes, before air bags.
      Having to change spark plugs ,cap and rotor , points , wires,change oil , every 2000 miles.
      Your car last hopefully 70,000 miles.
      Smog, black smoke from the semi”s,blue smoke from the cars.
      People burning their garbage in the yard,no recycling
      Lead paint, pcb and dioxin in the live stock feed,.
      Clear cutting forest , no enviromental laws, just wipe out species, whales ,doves, coyotes,wolves
      The draft, world wars, nuclear testing in Arizona ,
      There’s a reason why things are not built like they were and a better reason why your not allowed to. Cars go to 300,000 miles, without having to work on them, oil gets changed at 10,000 miles, emissions are reduced, and the planet is healthier .
      It doesn’t take a whole forest to make one house, engineering and common sense made construction safer and economical.
      Don’t look back or you’ll miss the future.

      • The Old Coach says:

        Maybe YOU drained antifreeze into the street. We didn’t
        We burned our waste oil for heat.
        People don’t still die in auto crashes?
        What kind of car did you have that needed all that every 2K?
        My old Dad rebuilt our ’36 Buick in 1955, at 120,000 miles, in our barn, over a weekend, and he COULD.
        This one I’ll grant you – rings and the cast iron are much better today.
        It was safe to burn trash because it wasn’t all plastic.
        Lead paint works. But don’t eat it. We knew that.
        I wish we HAD wiped out coyotes, we might still have quail and pheasant on our farm. And don’t get me started on doves – the only birds I know shit right in the feeder.
        Did Americans START any of the world wars?
        Nuclear testing in Arizona? In what universe?
        Modern McMansions are b uilt of “engineered wood” (flakeboard and glue joists?) thay may last 50 years. I grew up in the ’50s in a house originally built in 1780.

      • Mike in VA says:

        Checking out at the store, the young cashier suggested to the older woman, that she should bring her own grocery bags because plastic bags weren’t good for the environment.
        The woman apologized and explained, “We didn’t have this green thing back in my earlier days.”
        The young clerk responded, “That’s our problem today. Your generation did not care enough to save our environment for future generations.”
        She was right — our generation didn’t have the green thing in its day.
        Back then, we returned milk bottles, soda bottles and beer bottles to the store. The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over. So they really were recycled.
        But we didn’t have the green thing back in our day.
        Grocery stores bagged our groceries in brown paper bags, that we reused for numerous things, most memorable besides household garbage bags, was the use of brown paper bags as book covers for our schoolbooks. This was to ensure that public property, (the books provided for our use by the school) was not defaced by our scribblings. Then we were able to personalize our books on the brown paper bags.
        But too bad we didn’t do the green thing back then.
        We walked up stairs, because we didn’t have an escalator in every store and office building. We walked to the grocery store and didn’t climb into a 300-horsepower machine every time we had to go two blocks.
        But she was right. We didn’t have the green thing in our day.
        Back then, we washed the baby’s diapers because we didn’t have the throwaway kind. We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy-gobbling machine burning up 220 volts — wind and solar power really did dry our clothes back in our early days. Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing.
        But that young lady is right; we didn’t have the green thing back in our day.
        Back then, we had one TV, or radio, in the house — not a TV in every room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief (remember them?), not a screen the size of the state of Montana. In the kitchen, we blended and stirred by hand because we didn’t have electric machines to do everything for us. When we packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, we used wadded up old newspapers to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap. Back then, we didn’t fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the lawn. We used a push mower that ran on human power. We exercised by working so we didn’t need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity.
        But she’s right; we didn’t have the green thing back then.
        We drank from a fountain when we were thirsty instead of using a cup or a plastic bottle every time we had a drink of water. We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we replaced the razor blades in a razor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull.
        But we didn’t have the green thing back then.
        Back then, people took the streetcar or a bus and kids rode their bikes to school or walked instead of turning their moms into a 24-hour taxi service. We had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances. And we didn’t need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites 23,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest burger joint.
        But isn’t it sad the current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn’t have the green thing back then

    47. swinging richard says:

      I don’t know if its the government or the dealerships that do not want you working on your car. Lot of money to be made in service departments.

    48. Copperhead says:

      To every MOTHER::: HAPPY MOTHERS DAY!!!!!!

      Copperhead wishes you all the best.

    49. slingshot says:

      Happy Mother’s Day.

    50. slingshot says:

      Had to add.

      “M” is for the mercy she possesses “O” means that I owe her all I own “T” is for her tender, sweet caresses “H” is for her hands that made a home “E” means ev’rything she’s done to help me “R” means real and regular, you see Put them all together they spell MOTHER, a word that means the world to me.

    51. Ass hat says:

      Me too old guy 13 speed and cat diesel haul anything used an older freight liner for hauling no4 and 6 oil thick stuff like asphalt heavy as hell with overweight permits. People don’t realize a truck this heavy cannot stop quickly. Used to run this stuff throug Boston. Mike in va I remember this times we’d ride in the back of puckup trucks with no seatbelts no big deal either like nowadays boy was that dangerous when you think about it. We played manhunt basically hide and go seek with beatings if caught. We drove anything with a engine on it and would try to make it faster messing with it. I gotta say we were tough kids compared to mommy ruled kids today. My mother would kick us out and say it’s nice out. Just come back for lunch and dinner. By today’s free range terms we were those kids. I remember traveling on my bicycle as far a 25 miles and just calling my folks and telling them I wasn’t coming home for lunch. Parents today would have a meltdown over shit like this. Cops would be involved too probably. These kids are soft I didn’t use a helmet on my bikes. I never hit my head either I think living like this made us understand not to push our luck. My friends and I would jump off train tressels into the pond no big deal now there is signs and chain link fence stopping anyone from doing this. Shoot guns in the sand pit no big deal now the cops would take you to jail. Keg party’s hanging out with the older crew smoking splifs just like the movie dazed and confused . Those were truly good times now everyone is on a smart phone in their own world. The shit we pulled would make us bad kids by today’s standards. Parents were different then we would not piss them off because we’d get beatings. We had respect for the older folks and what they didn t know didn’t hurt them but they knew what we were up to they had to.

      • Mike in VA says:

        We used to throw hay bails on the back of my Dad’s old Chevrolet step side. We would ride on the back to the drive in to watch a movie. Was it that dangerous? I don’t think I remember but 1 accident where people died from being thrown off the back. There was one difference. There were not as many people on the road back then.

        Even before my time kids at the age of 10 were expected to take care of the family while there father was away working. They worked hard on the farm, cut wood, and worked from sun up to sun down. Now we shelter kids, put them in time out, pass out ADHD drugs like candy.
        Kids are full of energy and always have been. When we spent the day outside we sure had less energy when we came inside. A spanking did not teach me violence. It taught me respect. It taught me that there was consequences for my actions. In sports you won or lost. Not everyone got a trophy. It taught you that in order to do well you had to work hard at it. It taught you that winning and losing is part of life.
        Strange how things have changed.
        I often think that it was the plan to slowly do this to kids. Now they are dependent and feel that they are owed something.

    52. Ass hat says:

      Sold my jayco camper last night. Used it for two seasons and it sat for two seasons. Got almost all my $ back on the sale too. I had it on Craig’s list and lemme tell you the people that go on there looking for shit are morons I hate using it to list things because I don’t like people coming to my house. The camper was in like new condition I just don’t have the time to do it anymore. My wife listed it and the next day I had 20 emails of people wanting it. With people into prepping and looking for BOVs this thing fit that bill nicely. I probably could have gotten a few bucks more for it but I just wanted to move it along. I had my fun with it I don’t like campgrounds just for the reason that people complain to the office about your dog or your kids making too much noise during the day. I’m not bugging out to anywhere to live in refugee status. Keeping and maintaining it just to bugout someday is stupid. If I had land I would’ve put it there and used it to stay there when I want to. Be careful selling on CL some fuckin strange characters coming to your house. It’s nerve racking because you don’t know who your dealing with.

      • Braveheart says:

        Asshat, excellent point about Craigslist. Whenever Braveheart goes camping, he does the REAL DEAL, no RV or any of that. I’m talking tent, sleeping bag, campfire at night, etc. Now THAT is camping. Going in any RV or a camper you can tow is just a damn joke. I’ll grant you they would be very useful to put on a piece of land for temporary use while having some type of home built, but for camping I do only the REAL DEAL or don’t go camping, period.

      • Enemy of the State says:

        Ive sold quite a few things on CL..I never bring them to my home
        I meet in a public place like krogers parking lot or someplace like that

        I always make it sound like im doing them a big favor meeting them 1/2 way.. they dont know if I live right around the corner
        and its none of their dam business

        and yes , i will, pack my 45 and hook up to a 30 foot travel trailer and roll it 5 miles from my house to sell it to a stranger. its better that way , no unknown person is going to get invited to my home where my wife and kids live ,, thats opsec rule #1

    53. RU Ready says:

      Took a 2010 Honda in for a tune-up — they said the only thing they do is change the spark plugs.

      Wanna bet that Government Motors is giving away On Star with new Chevys because ‘Uncle’ is getting that data.

      Toll facilities are going heavy into radio frequency sensors that record your passage through a toll plaza (wanna bet they record your passage through other places too)?

      Auto insurers are giving you a ‘free’ device that monitors your driving habits to reduce the cost of your insurance. Why do they want to reduce their income? Wanna bet they are selling advertisers every place you stop or shop?

      Cameras now capture license plates if you are speeding, run a red light, or skip through a toll plaza. Wanna bet cameras are capturing every car that comes and goes in other locations?

      The one good(?) thing is that the government does not have enough worker bees to monitor everyone in real time. Most often, the government does use all this monitoring to track you AFTER you commit a crime, to find out your pre-crime whereabouts and contacts. (See Boston bombers). Real time tracking and switching between different cameras to watch your movements is mostly in the movies (though they can track your cell phone). Not that they do not want to track this, but mainly it is due to separate government agencies controlling their own sets of cameras, and no easy way for a ‘tracker’ to get access to all these different systems and identify which camera to switch to next.

    54. Ass hat says:

      True agent skinhead strait up flaming gays. Had the lady behind me who is around my age. She’s divorced come over to my fence and said to me I don’t think you should be burning today because of dry windy conditions. Now I’ve been doing this for years and know what the hell I’m doing she said she was concerned about her pines and house catching fire. I said mckayla I know what I’m doing go away. Typical woman lib dem thinks she knows all and men are dumb. This is why her husband is not there anymore. I don’t blame him. I hate when a woman try’s to tell me what to do. She will be alone the rest of her days because of the feminist attitude. Get back in the kitchen lady. Totally hear you on that skin it’s all about destroying men to the idiots. But when something needs to be done like fight war men are ok then right fuck you bitches. Who’s the victims really. Don’t come banging on my door for protection from the angry mob of nigs your on your own hope your prepared. Definitely the type of woman that thinks the cops should only have guns. In the northeast it’s very hard to find real women that know their role. Total conformists most of them.

    55. Ass hat says:

      I can do the oil changes on the vehicles but I don’t anymore it really isn’t any cheaper. You may save $5 but will have to dispose of oil. My town garage takes it but just another headache. I’m glad I know how to do this myself if I need to again I will. I know how to do brakes too. I do this myself usually because it does save me a good amount of$. I’ve done other stuff aswell. My first job was in a gas station that was full service I’d pump gas and check the oil for all the ladies if they asked me to clean up the shop put cars on the lift and basically learn as I went along watching the owner he was a Volvo specialist. Damn good mechanic too. My old man worked there too. I’d go in after school till about 8 pm then go home do homework. Fixing stuff was not what I wanted to do though. Good mechanical skills are nice to have. The newer cars are still mechanical but the electronics are vastly different now. Most of the parts are still replaceable by a DIY er. Just parts are expensive compared to back in the day. I remember some parts fitting different cars now I think it’s model and year specific. I been away from it for a while. We fixed all types over there. It was an old chevron station from the 70s it’s still there and the same guy owns it too. Right on the main strip where the malls and everything is. There was nothing there when that gas station was built. Just pastures. Boy it’s amazing how things change.

    56. Ass hat says:

      I like real camping too brave but the wife was concerned of animals and wanted a tag along. It was nice but I had to keep up with the maintenance. Throwing up a tent and packing it away is no maintenance. My pop took us as kids tenting it was fun. I was a scout as kid too they took us everywhere too. The scouts isn’t the same anymore it’s a joke frankly they hitched up with the gays and liberal agenda. Those boys will never learn to be men now. I feel bad for them it’s a shame. I got an old army tent the heavy canvas type od green it’s a good winter tent because of durability to handle snow. I use the light weight one for summer because it helps keep the bugs out. The army one has no floor just sleep on ground or cot. Craigslist people are strange you get folks from all walks of life responding to ads. Had a guy come with his girlfriend she looked like a prostitute. Another family with a mentally challenged child and another guy that talked to me like we were old buddy’s. My thing is someone coming back to rob me. I packed my 357 throughout the deal and for the rest of the day just incase. Made the wife run it to bank this morn her bank is open Sundays in the market. She says I’m paranoid I not paranoid just careful not to be caught on the shitter.

    57. Hout/cypress/Katy/shtf says:

      Want to hear something funny, I was with a buddy, just blew a water house in my care since my radiator needs to be replaced, bunch on kids driving by taught it was funny laughing at us because steam is coming from the hood. He who laughs laughs best. Let’s see how these ideotic little punks fair. Stupid dumb azzes didn’t know that I had and extra ten feet of hoses and tools ready, as I repair the hose and full back up the radiator with coolant, bleed the system and get it back up running. When the rat bastards drop the EMP or whatever they plan, I will be the one laughing may azz off at these unprepared idoetic people running around the city. Talk about stupid people.. idoetic fools are laughing at a business owner who has been through economic shtf as me and my buddy are saying that this very crap right there is why we are not going to help out anyone shtf. F……k them, these azzhole need to learn.

      Car breaks down, I have a plan

      EMP hits, I have a plan.

      Soldiers attack, I have a plan

      Jade helm 15 rains down, I have a plan.

      Asteroid impact, I have a plan..

      Shtf hits my city, I have a bug out location..

      1,000 dred locks, thugs and gangsters, and other felons coming at me, I have a street cleaner handy.

      I have plan A,B,C,D…

      What do lost idiots who are un prepared have, just clothes in their backs, and no plan..

      Stupid azz punks laughing have not one single plan.. when ever people light at me, I am the one who is laughing at them..cars won’t be driving worth a sh… once the shtf mentioned hits.

    58. Jane Doe-755 says:

      Insanity = someone who claims they obey the laws of the land yet are still using a legal name to make legal claims where the legal name was set up up by the system to be illegal to use to make everyone a criminal accomplice to all of humanity’s crimes and then, after you tell anyone this legal fact, especially cops, lawyers, patriots and freeman types, they continue to break every law in the system’s books and will actually get violent with each other….insane…it’s illegal to use a legal name…the sooner people get this, the safer they’ll be…once someone gets this idea through their skulls, the system is powerless, Lucifer’s construct of evil collapses…creation steps in only for those that walk in truth…liars get what they get….

    59. Ass hat says:

      Hout the street sweeper is kick ass man. I fuckin love it totally not practical but I can see where it would be useful when the thugs go around. I’d rather be invisible no matter what throw up plywood on the windows rip some of the vinyl siding off make the place look like a waste of time for anyone to bother with. Broke down a week ago in the company truck on my way back to barn. People pointing at me laughing I don’t give two shits. I got the last laugh I got two hours time and a half waiting for wrecker to come. I’m laughing to the bank assholes. I love the drum mags and high cap sticks shits cool. I made sure I had a battery of weapons that covers all scenarios. I figure if I die I can’t say I didn’t give it my best. I’m trying to get the guys at work together to have some shooting competition at the local indoor range they love to blow shit up. It’s difficult people have lives and family’s so you know how that goes. It would be nice to find out who the best of us is. One guy talks a lot of junk about he shoots better than me blah blah I told him if he wants to sell his guns I’d buy them I like new guns meaning he never shoots them they are probably like new.

    60. Klemens says:

      The last year, they build the Landrover Defender:
      https://youtu.be/9qp05xSw2ls?t=149

    61. Anonymous says:

      What is sad is most people do not get. This is about control. The corporate gov a fraud. Get it?

    62. slingshot says:

      HCKS
      When you have been prepping for a long time you have a plan for everything. Lots of overlap, redundancies and backups. There are specialties for some plans but I find many can be integrated. Items such as tape, Plastic sheeting and zip ties have many uses. Tools and small materials like nails and screws of different sizes are a definite plus.

      Still with all this stuff you have to be able to adapt, put the puzzle together to make it work for you.
      That is one ability that most young people do not have today.

    63. Enemy of the State says:

      All this car shit wont mean diddly squat when the Shit really hits , you better figure out how to build transportation or have human powered vehicles and they dam sure better be armored

      Cars and trucks run on money, and from what im seeing .. the banksters and political scum will be sure you wont have enough to buy a ham sandwich, and the pumps will be shut off, the military will be the only ones with fuel

      most people that are awake will be ditching their “modern” car for a less modern type at least until what little fuel you can find is dried up

      Currently they are already able to use the interface within your car to seek what ever info they want , its really small shit compared to the hell were headed for. Having a few pre 90’s cars or trucks might get you down the road for a few days after the war is actually declared , but once they decide to take us over our ability to get fuel or even travel within a vehicle will be a thing of the past

      better start walking and jogging distances to see if your ever going to be able to get anywhere outside your 10 mile radius , oh and be sure to train this ability with about 110 pounds of crap on your back and a weapon in your hand ducking in and out of cover

    64. Copperhead says:

      The world is getting feed-up with the OREO in charge.

    65. slingshot says:

      Mac.

      How about some new subject matter. Thread is old.

    66. notsogreat says:

      ht tp://www.businessinsider.com/unsold-cars-around-the-world-2009-2

      check out these pictures by removing the space between ht and tp

      real eye opener

    67. A Man Named Anon says:

      If a person could recreate a Porsche from fabricated parts, then should they be allowed to do it? In my mind, yes. If a feller has the gumption, creativity, intellect, wisdom, and money to create something from scratch, then it’s his business, right? The problem though is it’s not that simple. One must get insurance to drive a vehicle on the road. One must get vehicle inspections for emissions and proper equipment. If we fail to do this, then law enforcement officers are forced to pull us over for being out of compliance with the law.

      That’s the situation right now with altering vehicles and even historically with firearms. Now with 3D printers, one can acquire a template that some engineer spent hundreds of hours upon, and if one possesses gumption, creativity, intellect, wisdom and money, then one can significantly alter existing equipment like vehicles or firearms…or one can create them from scratch in novel ways not typically seen before.

      For firearms, the laws have been arbitrary in the past with suppression instruments, trigger mechanisms, and the like. There existed the potential to alter these to still be in compliance, but only vaguely so. It would entirely be up to the law enforcement officers discretion about whether these firearms were or were not in compliance, with a small chance of that occurring, and only if they became aware of it. There are countless stories of some hapless gun owner being charged with a crime while others might not be charged whatsoever. It so seldom happens, and is so difficult to understand the laws, that it ultimately becomes a case of the bottom feeding lawyers to “squint at
      gnats and swallow camels”.

      I’d expect for that to continue. With vehicles, I look for more Orwellian things to occur to monitor us all wherever we drive, as if we’re tagged animals with electronic markers as biologists have been doing for decades. It’s that scary a 1984-like world that we’re entering into.

      For a prepper, I think it’s wisdom to consider alterative ranged weapons that are not dependent upon standard ammunition. The most likely way to controlling gun is the delivery item. As far back as the Revolutionary War, explorers and hobbyists utilized compressed air to deliver ammunition. It’s a possible consideration for those who have the know-how and funds to use this as a potential hunting device. The problem currently is the amount of take-down force generated by compressed air, and the burden of carrying around a tank. It’s hardly stealthy. Some folks like Teslonian on youtube have tried charging fire extinguishers for the compressed air. It’s an idea with some merit.

      For long term use, possessing a long bow or even a recurve, as well as a conventional compound bow, would certainly be good ideas. Parts of the equipment will fail over time. All things break under use. Certainly a crossbow has a place for “hunting” but it’s slow rate of fire in history made it only fill a special niche for warfare. An expert might be able to fire seven air from a recurve or longbow in the time that one or two crossbow arrows could be shot.

      Regarding vehicles, we can fully expect a major modification to wood-gas for trucks, for when the fuel is unavailable or controlled as a strategic resource, then only those folks with this old WW1 and WW2 adaptation will be able to still travel the road…post-collapse. This is the most logical adaptation, is street legal, as long as you’re willing to adapt to the laws of your state and can find an insurance company will to insure you.

    68. How about not owning cars at all? Not buying anything whatsoever. Reduce the things that currently exist. And then for the grand finale; erasing everything altogether!

      There is only one answer to any problem; Silence.

    69. Thetrue1% says:

      Exactly what i DON’T want someone else (Government, insurance company, auto manufacturer, hackers) contoling my life and decisions because the sheeple are too stupid or lazy to take control of their own lives.

     
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