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    Full Scale Simulation: New Study Reveals Where To Go When Civilization Collapses: “Head For The Hills”

    Mac Slavo
    February 27th, 2015
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (302)
    Read by 53,569 people

    major-city-th

    major-city-2(Researchers say major cities will be overrun during a major crisis like a virus outbreak)

    Should the world as we know it ever fall apart as a result of an economic collapse, a massive natural disaster, cyber attack or widespread pandemic there will be millions of people looking for food, clean water and other essential resources.

    The cities will be plagued with violence and supply shortages. Government officials will, as Homeland Security has previously admitted, not be able to provide any meaningful support. The masses will be left to fend for themselves.

    But just because the whole system around us falls apart doesn’t mean there won’t be any safe havens.

    According to researchers at Cornell University who recently published a study analyzing the spread of a deadly virus and how it would affect the population, if you want to improve your chances of survival you should head for the hills.

    But the researchers warn that even this may not be enough, noting that we are likely “doomed” either way.

    Researchers from Cornell University have now discovered that the correct thing to do should the dead start to walk the earth is to literally head for the hills.

    They found that cities would fall quickly, but it would take weeks for zombies to penetrate into less densely populated areas, and months to reach northern parts of the mountain-time zone.

    Their advice is to head for the Rockies.

    The research involved results from simulations the researchers wrote themselves, similar to modelling chemical reactions.

    The Cornell team are less optimistic about our prospects.

    The abstract for their research ends with the line: ‘We build up to a full scale simulation of an outbreak in the United States, and discover that for “realistic” parameters, we are largely doomed.’

    Daily Mail

    After a zombie outbreak, you might want to run for the Rocky Mountains, at least according to researchers at Cornell University.

    The research team used statistical mechanics to figure out that this is the safest place to live during a zombie apocalypse.

    However, the research wasn’t completely fictional. The models they used could also be applied to real-world disease outbreaks.

    Tech Times

    The study specifically models a viral outbreak, in this case, a zombie viral outbreak. But realistically speaking the statistical mechanics analysis suggest what many in the preparedness community already know: cities will be death zones and your best chance at survival will be sparsely populated areas.

    James Rawles, founder of Survival Blog, has discussed the concept of the Golden Horde extensively in his writings. The Horde is best described as the masses of people who will be migrating from mega cities in search of food and other resources in the aftermath of a major collapse that results in supply breakdowns. And though a zombie virus may be fictional, the golden horde and a zombie horde would behave in much the same way, razing everything in their path.

    As hordes spread out from major cities there will be a widespread die-off for a variety of reasons, namely the lack of sustenance. And, given that there will likely be no functioning gas pumps because of a lack of electricity there is a strong possibility that most people will never make it out of about a 300 mile radius of a major city simply because they will only be able to go as far as a single tank of gas will take them.

    This means that those living in rural areas, especially mountainous rural areas, will have the best chance at surviving a zombie or any apocalypse. We recently published a map of the areas you want to avoid during an emergency. The map is based on population density, something that survival expert Joel Skousen says is the single biggest threat you’ll face in a collapse scenario:

    The number one threat that I concentrate on. It’s not terrorism, it’s not natural disaster, it’s not even government or war.

    The major threat is population density.

    Because every crisis that threatens, even a local crisis, can turn exponential because of close proximity to people who cannot help themselves. Even good people panic in a crisis…

    But the gut wrenching reality is that if something goes down and you find yourself in the middle of a major city and you have failed to plan ahead you’re going to have a serious problem.

    Todd Savage of Strategic Relocation explains:

    If we took a survey, probably more than 95% are not fully prepared. This is not good. Is it the end of the world if your family doesn’t own a retreat? Of course not, the reality is that most Preppers can’t afford a separate fully operational retreat, and that’s ok.

    However, not having a pre-arranged destination of some kind, with pre-positioned supplies is absolutely not acceptable. This could be located at a fiends or relatives home in the country, or a group purchase of a retreat, even a small parcel with a stream and cached supplies is better than nothing.

    Excerpt via: The Gut Wrenching Reality: One of the Best Bug-Out Strategy Guides You’ll Ever Read

    Once a breakdown starts it will be unstoppable and it will completely overwhelm a city within just a few days, according to The Prepper’s Blueprint author Tess Pennington.

    That means your best chance at surviving will be for you to have a preparedness plan in place before it happens.

    • Have a secondary location outside of major cities. Whether you buy, rent or share a piece of land or a cabin out in the middle of nowhere, one of your first priorities should be a strategic relocation plan that puts you out of reach of densely populated areas. Consider the gas tank rule: Because most will people will not be able to tank up their vehicles, the farthest they can go will be about 300 miles. If you are this far outside of a major city you’ve just upped your chances. The other option, if you have no choice but to retreat to a location within the 300 mile radius, would be to find a location that is difficult for someone to reach by foot. A mountain range or wilderness might be your best bet.
    • Food and Water. This is a no brainer of course, but keep in mind that you need to consider caloric intake and duration when planning your reserves. This can be done affordably with 11 foods that last a lifetime and the 25 survival foods to put in your pantry. Your emergency supplies should also include portable, high calorie foods like Meals-Ready-To-Eat and survival bars just in case you need to evacuate your secondary location.
    • Guns and Self Defense. If the hordes are coming they won’t be asking for help nicely. You should prepare perimeter defense strategies like those recommended by special forces veteran Max Velocity in his book A Tactical Manual For Post Collapse Survival. This includes having the right armaments on hand to quell any threats that may present themselves.
    • Medicine, Communications, Hardware Tools, Sustainability. All of these will be critical to survival and are often overlooked by those who stock preparedness supplies. For some ideas on how to position yourself properly consider reviewing the free online web series 52 Weeks to Preparedness.

    The idea of a zombie apocalypse is far-fetched and in the minds of many marginalizes the real threats posed to our civilization. Any number of events could lead to an apocalypse-level crisis that leaves millions dead. Even our government has warned about the possibility of long-term disasters. And the fact is that FEMA and the Department of Homeland Security have spent billions of dollars on the aforementioned supplies in anticipation of such an event.

    But all of those supplies they are stockpiling will likely never find their way to the general public, as they are reserved for government officials and their families who will be transported to secure underground facilities in the mountains.

    You on the other hand, will be left on your own. That means whatever preparedness plan you make today will be all that’s available to you  should the zombies start roaming the land.

    Related Reading:

    Prepare for Any Disaster

    When Real Disaster Strikes: These Are The People Who Will Loot, Pillage and Kill You For Your Food

    Strategic Relocation Briefings By Joel Skousen and Todd Savage

    Map: Where You Don’t Want To Be When It Hits The Fan

    How horrific will it be for those who fail to prepare?

    Click here to subscribe: Join over one million monthly readers and receive breaking news, strategies, ideas and commentary.
    Advanced Tactical Gas Mask
    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post

    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 53,569 people
    Date: February 27th, 2015
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

    302 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. Sierra Dave says:

      Two options. Out onto the ocean or the desert.

      The ocean will limit threats and expose them. Not many will have a sub. You can keep people at a distance with a long range weapon. Distill water as needed. Fish to replenish food.

      Most will not venture into the middle of a desert. Get a camo net to cover you and your vehicle. Have LOTS of water and food. A couple CB’s or ham radio. Hunker down, listen to the chatter until the population thins. Most will be dead in 2-3 months.

      • Audentis Fortuna Iuvat says:

        My family is right in the middle of a ” no zone” on the east coast. We(like minded people)have been conditioned to have a B.O.B. ……which is fine,but we have “get home bags” to make it back to our home. The notion of bugin’ out to the hills is a fairy tale that many think of,but will not,or is not possible for many Americans.”……..My point is the moment you get out of dodge and leave your home,YOU ARE NOW A REFUGEE!…And we all see how well refugees make out in this world.

        • Mountain Trekker says:

          The secret to surviving is knowing your surroundings. Just looking at the picture of the city, at the top of this article is enough to tell you if the apocalypse were to strike and you lived or happen to be caught in the middle of this place, your odds of getting out would be very small. Depending on the time of year in many places, if nessesary a person could always move to an even more remote location, such as here in the mountains there are many summer homes and cabins that are empty and the owners live a thousand or more mile away, They ain’t going to make it back in a SHTF senario. I’m not talking about stealing someone elses stuff, but you throw you supplies in the back of the old truck and move to a more defenseable location. Just A Thought. Trekker Out.

          • Acid Etch says:

            You can survive in a city if you keep your mouth shut and stay out of sight and don’t let out a fart or a muzzle report.

            • GenEarly says:

              I agree. The “city” is the 21st century jungle and can provide cover and concealment. The key as it is most everywhere is all “preps” in quantity and in the tippy top of a high rise with roof access to garden, gather water. No electricity means you are on a mountain top with narrow “trail” access. A small tribe could do well, or as well as many others in a rural location.

          • sixpack says:

            If you were respectful enough of your new emergency location, you’d actually be keeping the cabin secure from foraging and pilfering. This could be a benefit to the owner who couldn’t be there. Especially if you had your own preps.

            If I was a property owner who couldn’t get to my property, I’d rest easier knowing someone like-minded was there to keep it from being looted and razed.

            There’s a difference between taking something from the owner, and just using it temporarily. I’d be okay with the latter.

          • Anonymous says:

            I am Living in the S.W. Corner of Idaho, in the ‘Redoubt ‘. Anyone looking for a home here should contact me , as I recently married and have a 4 BR home on 3 acres located in Weiser , ID. Good soil and direct access to the Snake River. Only asking what I owe on the place. 150K. Growing up in Detroit Michigan, I can tell you that the ‘Golden Horde’ theory is Exactly what will happen. Your best bet is to be with like minded people and be secure in your tribe. I’ve been on this site for over two years and this is my first post. 21 year retired Army paratrooper and I go by ‘Madmountin’.

        • Plan twice, prep once says:

          Most people may not be able to afford a remote bug out cabin in the woods, as well that location may get compromised. There have already been three major nuclear meltdowns around the world, and more are possible, regional disasters are very possible.

          Always have some spare gas and a plan to load up and leave within one hour. Have ready made agreements with friends and family. I have family to the north south and west all within one tank of gas range. The wife packs the cloths and I pack the food and hardware and we are off to the safest location. If my place is the safest I expect those other relatives to show up at my house with appropriate supplies and hardware!

          In our agreement no one is expecting a free ride, everyone is expected to pitch in. Besides, there’s safety in numbers!

        • Shootit says:

          “Researchers from Cornell University have now discovered that the correct thing to do should the dead start to walk the earth is to literally head for the hills.”

          These guys from Cornell are idiots.

          Have you ever tried to grow anything in the Rock of the Rockey Mountains? You can get Aspens, Conifers, wild flowers, and little grass to grow. It takes 50 or more acres of “hill ground” in the summer to sustain a cow. All the good farming/ranching ground in the “hills” has farmers/ranchers living on it. PS. They have guns.

          Above 7000′ feet winter starts November 1st and by December 1 you have so much snow you can’t move and lasts until the end of April. Below 7000′ there are gobs of people. All the animals you think you will be eating for the winter also head to lower elevations for the winter.

          If you are not within 150 miles of your SHTF location now you are kidding yourself about getting there once SH does hit the fan.

          Prove me wrong… go wonder off into the Rockey Mountains next weekend above 8000′ for a little trial run on bugging to the “hills”….

        • A bug out bag is a good idea. Great tips here, btw.

      • The Old Coach says:

        Take a lesson from the old time sailing ships. Carry carbohydrates and vitamins. Fish alone isn’t total nutrition, except for other fish. You will need tons of fuel to cook and desalinate water. Where will that come from?

      • Muddy says:

        “They found that cities would fall quickly, but it would take weeks for zombies to penetrate into less densely populated areas, and months to reach northern parts of the mountain-time zone.

        Their advice is to head for the Rockies.”

        GROAN, this’ll be on Rawles’ survival blog, if it isn’t already, to say, “See, see, I told you guys. I’m right. I’m right.” Todd Savage is licking his chops thinking of all the business he thinks is coming his way. Meanwhile the supposedly anti-government and independent minded people of Idaho show that they are still sucking the public teat. They are “pleading” with the Secretary of the Air Force not to take away the A-10 fighter group as it will mean a loss of about $210 million dollars to their economy. Still sucking that teat. And they’ll head north into the panhandle when the SHTF.

        • Stan522 says:

          If total collapse happens, then the food stops shipping and most will be dead in a month or two……

          • apache54 says:

            Stan,
            won’t be a month or two, they will start to die in the first two weeks and will be dead in four weeks, only those who have food from whatever means will last longer, but 90% will be gone in the first month

            • slingshot says:

              Apache54.

              They will live longer than you expect. Three days without water and about 58 days without food. Hunger pains will drive many to eat things they would not normally eat. Game animals will come under heavy stress by hunters. Many know how to trap or snare. Your pet may become a target for dinner. I must say I have eaten lots of weird food but Cat might be hard to choke down.
              So with each new meal you extend your personal expiration date. The next factor is how much food a certain area contains. Supermarkets, Food Banks, Restaurants. Intense Competition for resources, a major problem.
              If you intend to Wait Them Out till they DIE. Don’t underestimate the Will to Live side of man. We think in terms of one person. You need to think, How Many. More than we think.

              • apache54 says:

                sling shot,
                this may give more info. about my age group , but after the nam war, there were several small groups of soldiers who had taken a likeing to cat and were raising them for food in Oregon, they were brought to court and they won because they were raised as a farm animal in cages for food. Now those guys swore by the taste and apparently there maybe something it! I have unknowingly eaten cat overseas and because of the way it was prepared i did not know and was good until i found out. it was in with other stuff not by itself, so really did not get a stand alone flavor.

              • TheGuy says:

                Let’s not forget Soylent Green. Minus the handy dandy tin can and the pasty green consistency, that is.

                Think it’s gonna be longer than a month. You’d whittle down to 30%-50% remaining (probably more like 30% at a guess) but never as low as 10% remaining.

              • Plan twice, prep once says:

                I have wondered about the world wide obesity epidemic, and if it’s not by design to save many from starvation? There certainly is an expectation of a global disaster, among many people. You could carry food in number ten cans, or you could carry some on your thighs and butt, no refrigeration needed!

                I read the account of the Donner Party, some of whom resorted to cannibalism, but old lady Donner and the daughter were down right fat, they never resorted to cannibalism, thought the thin husband did die, they survived. They learned to prepare animal skins to eat just so they would have something in their stomachs, but they basically lived off body fat, and survived the cold, and lack of food for months.

                You must give the stomach something to do, even what you feed it is nutritionally neutral, like dry grass.

                When US soldiers liberated the death camps in WW2, they were overwhelmed by the emaciated starving people, and didn’t have a clue how to treat them. They gave them the food that was available, in fact all they could eat. That food killed them! Their digestive systems had totally collapsed. The prisoners came down with uncontrollable diarrhea, couldn’t maintain fluids and died. Starter Baby foods, and baby rice cereal would have been more appropriate, and would have saved more lives.

                In medieval Europe prisoners as punishment were restricted to bread and water, doesn’t sound bad, but without other things in your diet it results in diarrhea after about a week, and is torture you can’t survive for more than a month or two.

                Point is, does your survival kit include things to save your life from diarrhea or severe constipation, and a lot of either. Do your stored foods have sufficient variety to prevent dietary problems. Do you have a medical text that discusses these problems in depth. Remember Diarrhea is one of the most significant killers in the third world.

            • realitycheck says:

              People leave out the most important element..water. All this talk about people being dead in weeks or months due to lack of food is off target. Most will die from drinking contaminated water within a few days. Water borne diseases will be the immediate mass murderer. thanks

      • TheGuy says:

        Ocean I think would be a good idea. Let’s also recall that the world is your toilet, solves that problem.

        The bigger issue is having a boat large enough to stay out there and not get messed up in a storm.

        But there are some really nice little tiny barely ever heard of Pacific Islands kicking around.

        • Kulafarmer says:

          Hell, theres places right here on the island i live on that you could go undetected, its rugged, tropical though, so rains, wild edibles, shoreline seafood stuff that you can literally scrape off the rocks, prawns and crayfish in streams you can catch with a string and rock, pigs, birds, deer,
          But the Rockies? We went wheeling up by Leadville, didnt see much to eat in the few days we were there, lotsa wide open nothing though.

          • apache54 says:

            Kula,
            which island are you on? i spent lots of time on Kauai and really liked that island, and yes you can disappear and survive year round easily there.

            • Kulafarmer says:

              Maui
              Its not a huge island, about twice the size of Kauai,
              But lots of valleys and ridges and remote shoreline, many many areas with running streams,
              Still need purifyer, fire starter, impro shelter etc etc,
              Hope it never comes to that but is a possibility,
              Some areas will get a lot of traffic if resources run dry, others i think will be ok, is hard to say, like someone else pointed out if i thought of it, is quite likely others have as well,

              • apache54 says:

                I know lots of locals on Kauai and they will survive and have invited me if i was there when it all comes down, I probably will not be there but was nice for them to accept me and they also showed me many of there old ways, they still practice many of them, but lots of the people are now city slickers as well and don’t know how to survive.

        • times2come says:

          That’s all good til a giant tsunami comes along!!!

      • Acid Etch says:

        Fishing at sea is not as productive as you might think. Fish populations have been much reduced.

      • Acid Etch says:

        Watching Wallbanger interview Bullshitler II I hear this turd talking about growing our way out of the economic collapse and hopes and dreams.

        I think many of you old people now understand from my years of pounding on you that a model of infinite growth is unsustainable and ridiculous.

        GET RID OF FREE TRADE

        END THE FED

        BUY LOCAL AND BUY HIGH QUALITY

      • Arby says:

        This whole “Running off to SOMEWHERE” when SHTF happens is ridiculous. If you are not ALREADY somewhere or have a designated place to go you are screwed.

        First of all if your vehicle is still working,(no EMP)the roads will be clogged. Most big cities the roads are already overloaded, just add a few more wrecks and CRAZY drivers to the mix…and you are NOT going anywhere!

        Second you can not take enough tools, supplies and equipment with you to “SET UP” somewhere and be self sustaining. Not to mention the skill set and knowledge it takes to start from scratch.

        Get ready NOW or….. It is better to be a year too early on your preps and supplies than to be ONE Day too late!!!

        • Smokey says:

          I know a guy who swears he is going to be able to load up his vehicle with everything he needs, like Robinson Crusoe, to survive and prosper when he reaches his bug-out location, which he has yet to identify. His vehicle?

          Toyota Tercel, small gas tank, highway tires, no cargo room, not even a trailer hitch or roof rack. Probably can’t even crawl out of a deep pothole with it.

          • Lumpy says:

            Just wait until he discovers the armed govt flunkies who have orders to keep people out of the forests, deserts etc. Cops here killed a guy for camping out in the desert.They wanted to take him to a homeless shelter and he refused to budge. A drunk that refused to pay $6.00 to camp at Elephant Butte state park a few years ago was shot and killed by a cop for walking away after refusing to pay.

      • Anonymous says:

        Which several of you may be aware of the views of geologist who have worked for petroleum companies who’ve known for years the Genesis account of creation is more fitting then the atheist (or any others) – mountains were formed very quickly (rapid continent separation from Pangaea) of just from a few hundred to a few thousands – the earth is expanding mountainous areas will sink & even an encapsulation(s) safety areas built in solid granite would be comprised. Biblically speaking, this does fit. Although northern regions around the States & Canadian region’s several hundred miles from the coast might be 1 ticket. Expect the plane (whether high planes or others could also be iffy, large sink holes crop up in all sediments & the oceans are the last place (surface or sub) anybody could possibly want to be.
        *if some of the geologist (who know what I’m trying to say, if can speak up) I’ll get a hold of a few hoping they’ll give the proper geological terms for what I’m trying to say here! I’ve been told their might be 5 or 6 areas (not zones) that might be safety harbors (terra ferma) speaking)

      • Glimmer says:

        Ultimately, there is no ‘safe place’, there are just perceived safer places…and even those will be contested.
        Hungry people make poor decisions. Resources will out value life. If you’ve never seen a one man kill another man for a can of tomatoes, then you’ve never been that hungry.
        Think Armageddon and work backwards to scale.
        Most importantly, quickly embraced your new paradigm.

        Best of luck to you all.

        – G

      • poorman says:

        Well another article telling people to ” bug out to the hills ”
        Let me explain something to people that think this will work from someone that lives in those hills. You are not welcome here. If you think your summer cabin is your refuge it’s not. You are not a local and we don’t want you. In fact in a real SHTF situation your cabin will become our property. The wildlife and water up here is ours. The land is ours. We tolerate you as tourists because you bring in money but we refer to you as flatlanders and don’t like you,your attitudes or your though process. I am not saying this to be mean or rude but so you will understand our thought pattern. You will be better off staying where you are than trying to escape to an area that is full of folks that don’t want you.

    2. Kulafarmer says:

      Run for the hills!
      So you can die of exposure……

      • Mountain Trekker says:

        You got that right Kula, DO NOT head for the Rockies, living conditions are very extreme out here. Trekker Out.

      • FuckingPissed says:

        Heading to a place (out west) without reliable water is insanity.

      • apache54 says:

        the mountains i live in, the people who run for the hills, probably won’t survive those who already live here. they already don’t like (flat-landers) and the mountains can only support those who already live there.

        • Kulafarmer says:

          That will be one of the fastest ways for people to meet their maker, is the same thing as you or i relocating to another AO and just setting up shop,
          I suppose a select few could be able to talk it out and work it out and perhaps even have it be beneficial, but anyone who thinks they can just move on in will most likely get lead poisoning.
          Im sure theres some remote or rough areas that nobody lives in,
          But like so many posts and articles have said the odds of any sort of long term survival will be rough,
          That piece Mac had on here a while back about the Russian family comes to mind, and those folks were a whole different sorta people.
          And there may be a few who certainly could go off into the wilds and make it, for a while.
          Real rare you ever hear about anyone trekking out and surviving for years and years, lots of factors.
          The biggest is what Hammerhead and Trekker mention, the elements!
          -12! How long can you hunker down out in that and survive? A single person, possible, a small family? Hmmm
          Ive been in the Rockies, is beautiful, but unless you have a ton of supplies and a decent shelter you will either freeze, get eaten by something, or get injured or sick and die,
          Again, sure, a few folks could pull it off for a while, maybe one or two could by chance make it long term, but the vast majority, might as well just look at it as a better way to die than being killed by gangs etc.

          • Skeptic says:

            Kula;
            Good points. Something I might add is having been in the Colorado and other states Rockies a number of times in the late fall on hunting trips is that you get ravenously hungry when you are working hard in extreme cold. You had better take a semi load of food for ay length of stay.

            • appalachianMAN says:

              Remember the book and the movie…THE STAND? all the good ppl that survived the plague dreamed the same dreams of the lady telling them to go to Colorado . and the wicked were drawn to Las Vegas … sometimes i wonder who’s really writing this stuff for the people to panic about tomorrow that may never come, I’ve heard this same story since the early ninties

              • Mountain Trekker says:

                AppMan, It’s fun to talk about and contemplate though, ain’t it. Better to think about such things and even run various senarios through your mind than to just wake up one day in the middle of a SHTF situation and then wonder, What Do I Do Now. Trekker Out. Never Panic!

            • ColoradoKid says:

              I LOL when I read ‘head to the Rockies’. There are enough of us Coloradans pissed off at the Kalifornia and Texas invasion of the past 20 years…you will not be met with a warm reception.

              Head to the hills? Are you sure you want to do that? Like many here have said, you have to have a metric shit-ton of food and supplies to make it here. But having all that wont mean shit unless you have knowledge, skills, a place to go, and supplies. (half these clueless lemmings have never cleaned a fish or gutted an elk I’m sure.)

              Let me repeat…don’t come here. I’ll be dealing with the ‘Frontrange’ hipster/yuppie accounting dad and soccer mom heading my way from Denver. If they are lucky, they’ll be able to greet you heading east, and tell you to stay out of the hills and high country.

            • ENFP says:

              Right Skeptic. I remember when I was working outside with cattle for 4 hour stretches in 0 degrees F. I wore as many layers of clothes as practical and I never ate so much at a meal in my life.

              • stu johnson says:

                I worked outside for 8 years in Minnesota, almost every day. Yes there are ways to dress to be outside in cold weather, but you need a place to hide at night. The one thing that was worse than sub zero temps was sub zero with wind. I did learn tricks for dressing and they DO work.
                I think a little cabin in the north woods is good but you need supplies to get through the winter while the golden horde is freezing and staving, and then the VERY important RESUPPLY so you can live through another winter etc……
                I’m lucky, got a little cabin in the north woods, and some good hands on dealing with the cold!
                People stealing is a problem with a semi remote hidey hole so I’m a little worried about getting there with all my stuff, since I can’t leave it all there.
                Have a nice day STU OUT.

          • hammerhead says:

            KULA-
            After i posted the above, i finished chores and headed out on snowshoes on a rabbit hunt.
            I got about a thousand acres of cedar swamp around me.
            All i could think about was someone tryin to live out there.
            Its bad enough this time of year , but that swamp in the summer has flys and mosquitos the size of bald eagles !
            Buggin out to the woods…….i dont think so.

            And BTW , bagged 2 bunnies with the 410 single.

        • Tacoma says:

          Apache54….The bottom line is there will be no safe place.Some places maybe safer for a few days but then we wake and have to face reality.

          • ENFP says:

            Re safe places, my plan is bug-in where I live – a rural neighborhood. Will have to defend against bad neighbors but hopefully the good ones will be together on this and could put up barriers and lookouts for the golden horde we are only 120 miles away from. It won’t be safe from war, government thugs or foreign invaders though. Have a place in mind to bug out to if can get there by vehicle. It will carry enough supplies for two months and after that we (I am not alone in this) will be depending on guidance from the Lord.

          • apache54 says:

            Tacoma,
            you are correct the only safe place will be when your 6 ft. under! all the rest will be lots of tough choices and hope they were correct and if not you’ll know real soon!

      • Richard Head says:

        So I’m suppose to take advice from a bunch of baby “geniuses” whose time in institutes of “higher learning” is spent doing a study on a FREAKING ZOMBIE OUTBREAK!!!! Am I really suppose to take this seriously. Sure I understand the parallels but good Lord these people are suppose to have the capacity of thought to be able to create an interesting simulation that can happen in real life not just on cable television. These are the assholes that are and will be running this country. And we wonder why its gone to shit.

      • Borodino says:

        Interesting that Cornell University boffins recommended heading for the Rockies. As I recall, the Donner Party did just exactly that!

    3. White Fox says:

      In a WROL situation or if you have to leave for the south hemi or to a country outside of western countries, women will often be targeted for violence, harassment, or rape. Even if the girl can handle herself, sometimes it’s better to avoid attracting the attention or unwanted trouble to begin with. Disguise her as a boy. Dress her in a large outer jacket or coat, looser fitting men’s clothes, boots for a reasonably male sized appearance and movement shouldn’t be restricted. The contours of the breasts and hips must not be seen or distinguishable, tape can also be used to flatten the chest though not for extended periods and breathing should never be restricted. Hair should be secured and tucked under headwear. A bandana or scarf can cover the neck. Gloves and/or shades are optional depending on situation but you don’t want to overdo it to the point others might get suspicious, especially if it would be out of the ordinary. No use of makeup, lipstick, nail polish, artificial nails, scents, lotions, jewelry, or earrings. Weapon, concealed or not, will depend on conditions and if appropriate. Practice dominant body language but she should refrain from speaking within earshot of others that you don’t want to find out, and keep out of arm’s reach from them. Be careful when using public transportation, especially in less developed countries, or don’t use them at all. If she has to use the bathroom, use the men’s room, ideally one that isn’t crowded or one that no one else can go in if occupied. In a vehicle, she should ride passenger in case someone might want to speak to the driver. No public displays of affection either.

      Results may vary.

    4. Satori says:

      we’ve been warned about the dangers of being in an urban area
      during any type of collapse for many years

      one of the earliest “prophets”

      Urban Danger

      • PO'd Patriot says:

        Ol’ Roscoe was one of the few politicians that had his head on straight. I wouldn’t give you a penny for any of the others here in “the Peoples Republic of MD. I have been asked many times, “PO’d, why don’t you pull anchor and head for a friendlier state”? Yeah, I did contemplate that many times. But for how long would it remain so-called “friendly”? Why should I be the one who has to leave where I’ve lived all life? My thought is, if you’re itching to catch a round in your ass by fucking with somebody, then the line up at the end of my lane and I’ll oblige you.

      • Yea, he is an uber doomer. I like him.

        Isn’t he also a scientist of some sort besides being a congressman?

        He is also a peak oiler. I remember he appeared in the 2005 documentary “A Crude Awakening”. I still spin that recording up every now and then when I need a doomer fix.

    5. mine not yours says:

      Sierra Dave has is right, in my mind. If you have to steal a boat\yacht do so. Water i think would be safe, untill you run out of fuel.

    6. Yohan says:

      Die of exposure? There are MANY empty houses – foreclosure or already bank owned – pick one!

    7. possee says:

      I’d be more concerned with net neutrality kicking in and the recent batf ammo grab soon to be exercised..one caliber at a time

      Prepare accordingly

      possee

      • hammerhead says:

        Soon as the new net rules kick in , I am sure that ammo will no longer be allowed to be sold online.
        And how long until it wont be allowed over state lines?
        Buy now if you can afford to do so.

        Two more years of this bullshit, and it will take 6 generations to fix it , if ever.

        • Mountain Trekker says:

          Hammer you make a very good point. Nothing good ever comes from anything that the Government controls. I’m not really sure what this entails, of the Feds taking contorl of the Net. But your correct about them stopping the sale of ammo on the internet. They will say that there is no way to tell a persons age when they buy on line. They won’t need to stop the sale of guns since they have to be sent to a FFL holder, but that don’t mean they won’t stop the sale of guns anyway. Seems the noose just keeps getting a little tighter and we don’t have a means of stopping it. Trekker Out. Meet Force, With Force!

    8. possee says:

      head for the hills?

      Helll no!

      With the rest of the golden horde in a mass exodus to destinations unknown..I’ll stay put..and take my chances right here..

      They never factor in all the criminal elements who’ll be plundering and ambushing the horde on their way over the cliff..

      Remember all the videos Mac has posted of the golden hordes trampling and fighting over black friday crap…multiply that by the millions..

      No thanks..

      possee

      • Seasoned_Citizen says:

        posse,

        ROGER THAT

        this old “gray-beard loon” is BUGGING IN.

        got plenty of food, H2O, and Pappy’s M1 Garand with plenty of ball M2 ’06. It was good enough for him, it’s good enough for me.

        how’s that old 45rpm song of “Jumpin'” Gene Simmons, “Haunted House” go?

        Say yes I’ll be here when the mornin’ comes
        I’ll be right here and I ain’t gonna run
        I bought this house now you know I’m boss
        Ain’t no haint gonna run me off

      • Jay in UK says:

        Golden Hordes is a fiction promoted by James Wesley Rawles (note the wilful omission of the silly comma).

        While sensible preppers should be fine if they are at their retreat or homestead, the masses in the cities would lack the fitness, exerptise or “a plan” necessary to survive more than a day or so in the wilderness. And because cities will always be the first places to receive any kind of disaster relief, however crude and mismanaged, they remain the best places for the unprepared to stay or even gravitate towards. So, far from it being a Rawlesian swarming out, there would be a higher chance of a counter-Rawlesian migration towards the cities. Even most modern farmers *(at least this side of the Atlantic) would be lost without regular trips into town to buy groceries; their idea of butchering their own meat is to go to a butcher’s and buy some.

        • Jay in UK says:

          Sorry for the typo: “expertise”, I meant to say.

        • Old Nam Vet says:

          But, but , but. I might win something in one of his essay contests…

          • TPSnodgrass says:

            No you won’t. You are already on his “disapproved” list of people NOT welcome in HIS area of the redoubt”. Just like most of us. So, no matter how MUCH stuff you submit, unless you plan to have a career in amateur proctology, you are not going to win anything.(I know that crushes you all to pieces…)

          • ENFP says:

            Re survival blog essay contest, I did win prizes. They are great, except Patriot Ammo refused to send any prize.

        • Frank Thoughts says:

          Good points! Major cities are priority one for all governments and I have lived long enough to see them through many crises. While the city can get hit bad – by a storm, riot, terrorist attack etc. – the bounce back is hard and fast. Governments tend to mobilize vast resources to restore a major city back to normal. No politician would last a day or two if they sat on their ass and let New York burn to the ground or London.

          During the London riots, the police followed a let-it-burn strategy but this was played well. They only allowed the worst areas to go to hell and drew a line on the rioters getting anywhere near the real money and power (they would have happily killed them if they tried attacking anything of any value). After four days they threw the switch on a major fight back: police from across the country were mobilized – you could see vast convoys on the motorways bombing down to London – and then surged the forces across the city. Even the sleepiest neighborhood would have paramilitary police on the street keeping an eye on things.

          So, yes, the Golden Horde has their moment but it does not last long. And trust me, next time the Golden Horde tries anything serious the fight back would involve soldiers and ‘dark forces’ that would ensure any disturbance would be over very quickly.

          • Arkie_Jen says:

            Yeah, about that “bouncing back hard and fast” … Talk to some of the thousands who are STILL displaced from New Orleans and southern Mississippi, post-Katrina. And that was with the state and national governments fully functional, vs. inoperable due to EMP, wider-scale disaster, and/or bureaucrats, soldiers and emergency responders staying home to care for their own families in the initial collapse.

            Plan for the worst — and you’ll be pleasantly surprised 10% of the time.

        • Skeptic says:

          Jay in UK go away! You are far too reasonable to be here!

        • Dan B says:

          I assure you the hordes will be real. Wilderness? Pray tell, where do you find this loathsome inhospitable wilderness within walking distance of a mega city? Not in the continental US you don’t, save for maybe Phoenix and Vegas. You find mile after mile of farm land, small town, roads, lakes, streams, forests. The horde can go on for a long time in the more temperate climate areas. They can cannibalize each other and move on. Hell, the heathens already almost do this very thing in the inner cities.

        • Arkie_Jen says:

          And you have a degree in human behavior from what university? Why do you suppose that Syria, Iraq, Jordan — and much of the South, post-Katrina — are over-run by refugees? According to your theory, those persecuted Yazidis, Kurds and Christians wouldn’t leave town just because they’re starving or being butchered. Why, how silly of them all!

          How far do you think a small town or rural community will need to be from a city to not have “townies” who have family or friends there, not show up?

          Watch “Mad Max” tonight and then decide whether you or JWR is supporting the more likely scenario!

          • Jay in UK says:

            Before I proceed to reply, I just want to say I know many people have invested considerable faith, emotion and finance in Rawlesian preparedness, so I wholly expect them to defend it, especially against a mere Brit (“what would he know?”)

            So, with that out of the way, to answer Arkie-Jen, could I gently urge you to reconsider invoking fiction (like Mad Max) to prove a point? Real world examples surely carry much greater weight…

            Rawles’ Patriots and much of what he writes and speaks of, such as fantasies about sinlessly perfect friends living in an isolated fortified retreat and none of them ever arguing about anything, no clashing egos, no libidinous urges getting the better of them… It’s rose-tinted idealisation on steroids. I say the same applies to his economic crash theory: it just ain’t gonna be allowed to happen this side of a nuclear war, because again and again there have been many compelling reasons why it should have already occurred, yet every time collapse is “imminent”, the powers that be somehow manage to avoid it. But there is a superabundance of real world evidence that nuclear war – preceded by mass round-ups of patriots – is most definitely on the agenda and that is what you really need to get your prepper focus on.

            So forget Rawles and look at real world experiences from guys like Selco and Ferfal. Here’s a classic example of Rawles being detached from reality. He once said if you have a fortified retreat, the bad guys will walk away and tackle “granny down the road”. Yet Selco said, speaking from what he saw happen in the real world, that the first targets the looters and bad guys went for was… fortified residences. Because they make the (correct) assumption that granny down the road will be as unprepared as they are, whereas the guy with the fort will have bountiful supplies.

            Re the Kurds fleeing etc., that is not relevant to the subject being discussed. A small minority population coming under religious persecution is a wholly different scenario than a mass societal collapse, so comparing the two is disingenuous at worst or plain careless at best.

            @ Dan B: The wilderness referenced in the article is the Rockies which, to the best of my knowledge (having never ventured that far west in the USA), is indeed a pretty wild and agriculturally barren part of the world.

            Nevertheless, I’m going to take issue with the nuances of your comments about wandering through farmland close to cities. If you are proposing that farms are larders-in-waiting for hungry hordes, boy oh boy, are you wrong! Unless the fields are being overrun at harvest time, there will not be much in the way of pickings to be had, and even at that, not for very long. And what about cattle farms? Do the masses know how to kill, butcher and preserve? Even most beef farmers don’t know how to do that.

            And then there’s the fallacy about the countryside being replete with game that can be hunted and feasted upon. In reality, wildlife tends to congregate in the countryside circling towns, with vast areas in the far western US and Canada largely bereft of four-legged edible fare (as that poor Scottish guy who made a survival documentary – still on YouTube, I believe – on the very subject soon discovered). The swarms of fat, unfit, wheezy, untrained, inexperienced mall ninjas who lack mental fortitude (and everything else of worth) and who wouldn’t last an afternoon in the woods at the best of times would in any case, if roaming the countryside near their home towns, soon discover the limitations of the hunting-for-game strategy. And then they would wet their pants.

            Now Dan, you assure me the hordes will be real. I agree, they will. But not roaming the rural landscape. They’ll be looting the city shops, turning in on each other and finally, standing in line to get microchipped or whatever in return for rations once FEMA gets its act together. It will all boil down to abilities and odds; the very few urbanites who are able to survive and thrive outside the cities will make it. For the majority of the rest of them, though they may understand the inherent risks, staying in the cities will seem like the best option. So… No golden hordes. Say it again now: NO. GOLDEN. HORDES.

            • hammerhead says:

              JAY –
              Excellent post, what did the folks in UK do during ww2?
              London …Blitzkrieg ?
              Golden hordes into the country side ?
              Not to my knowledge of history .
              Could you enlighten us on this subject ?
              People forget history so fast it amazes me .

              • Jay in UK says:

                Thank you!

                During WW2 – which, may I point out, ended a quarter of a century before I was born – most people in London and the other major cities were very stoic about the whole issue of hardship and being bombed at night. They didn’t cry or whine; they just became more determined to see the whole mess through to the end. Suicide actually rates fell and mass resolve strengthened. That said, it’s impossible to know for sure at what point a society loses the will to go on; yet even the Germans, after the horrors of Dresden and Hamburg weren’t for caving in. very strangely, the British High Command expected they would, despite observing that our own population didn’t!

                Back in the UK, some mothers and children were sent away from London but on no account can that be described as a Golden Hordes evacuation, as it was orderly and devoid of the living rough / looting / raiding features of the Rawlesian fantasy.

                I think the key thing to take from the above is that as long as a people experience (or believe they are experiencing) confident leadership from their government during even the most appalling of conditions, they are unlikely to succumb to chaotic, lawlessness en masse. Sure, disaffected demographics might riot and loot for a while, but as long as there is radio and TV telling them to keep calm and carry on, most people in Western societies will do just that.

                However, that all said, if a nuclear attack hits the US and comms are gone, leaving the government effectively decapitated, there would probably be a period of panic and unrest among the survivors, that is, the kind of societal collapse event we’ve been talking about on this thread. That’s a different set of dynamics to the London Blitz, the Dresden firestorm or even the nuking of Hiroshima.

                • GenEarly says:

                  London and England were not Balkanized during WWII. There were not Millions of Illegal Invaders on their soil sticking their middle finger to their “hosts”. They did not have a Nazi as their Prime Minister. The English people were not in a pre-civil war state of mind. The English Government was arming it’s citizens, not forcing them to disarm contrary to written US Constitutional Law.
                  Just a few points of difference from the current USSA.

      • Sgt. Dale says:

        POSSEE
        You asked me question the other day. Did you get your answer? I did leave you an answer.
        Sgt.

      • watching and waiting says:

        Sound policy……
        More will die buggin out than buggin in

    9. Risky Whiskey (The Skeptic) says:

      you never feel more alive or closer to God than when you witness and face death on a large and unjust scale.

      IMHO the most important thing to consider when this soiree kicks-off is that even if you lack the preps to help and to save others… as long as you do not harm others, or steal THEIR sustenance and means of security… you’re probably going to stay right with God.

      Until the SHTF try to live a law-abiding distance from disorder, get right with God, and reduce your signature among those who offer nothing but unskilled hands, empty minds and hungry mouths.

      Oh….and as Gabe Suarez of Suarez International Inc. says:

      Don’t do stupid things at stupid times in stupid places with stupid people. (do you know where your kids are?)

      Shut the fuck up (don’t let your weapons or training get you into a situation that you’ll need your weapons and training to get you out of)

      Mind your own business (unless what you are witnessing is so heinous and unjust that you are willing to risk your life, your fortune, your freedom or your health to get involved to affect that outcome.)

      Don’t look like food (Keep a low profile)

      • hammerhead says:

        Thats some real good advice by Mr Suarez.
        Its sad that , it needs to be said at all.
        It should be common sense .

        Common sense is the cheapest and most valuble prep you will ever pack away.

      • Old Nam Vet says:

        “Don’t look like food” Best darn advice I ever read.
        Also shut the fuck up is real good advice. I was in the dentist’s office and talking to a woman about hunting and gun supplies a few days ago and my wife walked up to me later and said we could hear you two all over the room. I said, oh jeez and thought of opsec immediately and crap I blew it. Thank you for the head banging advice…picture an old guy hitting his head on the wall. keep your powder dry

      • TPSnodgrass says:

        Mr. Suarez was indeed in several “shootings” during his tenure at Santa Monica PD, I believe that all of them were dogs(as in real canines) he shot. Still, his counsel as posted above is worth heeding.

    10. pecker wood says:

      if you are not already living in the north rockies, stay the f*ck out of the north rockies!

      outsiders will not be welcome here when the shtf.

      also take note that you will have to cross through multiple indian reservations to reach the northern rockies from any direction.

      if the white man hating indians don’t pick you clean, the inbred rocky mountain local rednecks will, especially if you’ve got young virgin woman folk.

      stay out of the northern rockies.

    11. the java junkie says:

      I’m gona kick back and enjoy the mayhem and carnage! There isn’t a day that goes by that I don’t say to myself ” you’ll be one of the first to go “!!

    12. Mr Smith says:

      I think that if the USA keeps pushing Russia then Russia will hit back by dropping nukes all over the USA and Israel.

      You see Russia is not going to match the US and its NATO puppets tank for tank, ship for ship because that costs too much money so why should they when the USA is banging up agaist russian borders.

      Suicide pills sounds like a good option unless people stop the banker puppets in the US from starting WWIII in Europe

      • Sierra Dave says:

        My money is on anonymous nuke(s) dropped from low Earth orbit and an American wide EMP. Only takes 1-3. Hard for America to retaliate if it’s not sure who did it.

        I know we track stuff in orbit. But we don’t know what everything is.

        Oh, suicide pills are for losers or spies. Just go out shooting. Make your death count.

        • apache54 says:

          Sierra Dave,
          you may be correct because if you think about it. we have BIG natural resources here and either Russia or China will want to use them, so a EMP will be the choice of weapon as the resources will still be there long after the people are not!

          • Copperhead says:

            SD and A54: They (Russia or China) will not destroy the BREAD BASKET of the WORLD an EMP is where I’m putting my bet on.

          • Kulafarmer says:

            Russia and China could waltze right in under the guise of “humanitarian” aid and scoop up huge areas, honestly, if there was an EMP strike i doubt anyone would even know who did it, there is so much stuff wizzing around the planet at low orbit that it would be quite possible to have hardware that has been there for a decade or so and trigger several different devices at the same time. Lots of IFs to consider

            • Sgt. Dale says:

              To the above.
              If any nation uses a EMP on us it will take out the nations communications. We the USA will strike back with our space based weapons and Subs.
              Russia and China won’t come waltzing in, because there will and I quote, ” There will be a gun behind every blade of grass” I believe it was Yamamoto.
              Sgt.

              • apache54 says:

                Sgt,
                the point is that they won’t use nukes and that means we have a better chance to survive, and of course we will defend against them and will have to have guerrilla warfare, but IF they nuked us then neither them or us will survive and or have anything left that will be useable. they may not like us but they do want our natural resources.

              • Plan twice, prep once says:

                There is a strong belief (as well as leaks supporting it) that Obama won’t retaliate if the US is ever nuked. The belief is that Obama is bat shit crazy and is not invested in defending the US.

                The whole war on terror is just a device to further his fascist “hope and change” crap.

                Word is Obama took the emergency retaliation launch codes away from all the US sub commanders.

            • WTF*over says:

              @Kula I agree about the means, I think it will be blamed on either of them. However, I just think either of them are more eager to get rid of the “re-serve” currency! Hell, it seems “our” grubbermint is letting China get rid of those nasty fdr notes right here in the U S A. The BRICS nations have done a helluva fine job knockin off the Petrol dollar(RIP), if they are as determined to see our fiats demise they can create havoc, let us fight amongst ourselves, til were burned out,then they split what resources are left.

              I am also hoping someone here can set my mind at ease over why no one here seems to concider the probability that The ptb have technologies that can equalize numbers. ie: sound, laser, manipulte senses. TY*out

              • GenEarly says:

                The “Money” bubble bomb sets off the festivities,imo.
                The next “War” has already started with China, Russia, and others accumulating Gold Reserves.Cyber attacks back and forth across the globe Daily. Cyber attacks that can take down the grid (no emp needed),no internet, no digital money, nor petrol, atm, ebt, etc.

            • TheGuy says:

              We wouldn’t have to “know”.

              We would merely “assume”. And respond.

              I mean face it everything we do already is about maintaining our relative position. If we go to the Stone Age, so does everyone else.

              Because we can. That’s why.

      • Stolz Vorfahren says:

        Mr Smith. Just in case of nuke exchange hitting the USA, I don’t mind to use suicide pills to prevent suffering. However if the Ruskies hit Israel….I’ll open up Champaign in unlimited quantities.

      • TheGuy says:

        Yeah I worry about that one a lot.

        First off, that March 12 prediction. I swore up and down I was gonna be in Nebraska on March 12 2015. I doubt I can make it now. Problems having to care for folks, and they’re in no shape to even get on a plane.

        The reason for Nebraska is that it was predicted to be someplace that didn’t get hit.

        Second off.

        I hope… they’re not that stupid. Their targeting accuracy was never… shall we say… state of the art. Hence why they always went for bigger yields… you can miss and still take out the target.

        Here’s the problem with that little idea.

        Nuclear. Power. Plants. With all the spent core rods just sitting there on the roof in a kiddie wading pool (presumably presided over by Sigmund the Seamonster).

        … yeah so… if you take those out… or hit near them and create a seismic event… or hit the power station feeding their cooling systems…

        Adios.

        Pretty much to the entire biosphere.

      • STRAIGHT SHOOTER says:

        ARE YOU AWARE THAT 5 NUKES GOING OFF AT ONE TIME CAN THROW THE EARTH OFF ITS ACCESS ????

    13. Ass hat says:

      Heading for the hills ha. Good luck I think this is a mistake many will make. No man is an island you are gonna have to work with others.

    14. wncmountainboy says:

      The Southern Appalachians of NC, SC, GA and TN will be inundated by useless,clueless urbanites from Atlanta, Charlotte, Knoxville…”Let’s go up to the mountains. We’ll be safe there.” Could get quite ugly. Us mountain types don’t like interlopers. My mantra to tourists; “Come, visit and spend your money, then go home.”

    15. WARFACE says:

      Oh….the “collapse” again. As long as governments can print money, there will be no “collapse”. Greece was supposed to exit the Euro and start the “collapse” and they decided to take the 12″ dildo wrapped in sandpaper up the ass. There is no collapse coming.

    16. swinging richard says:

      I think I’ll assess the situation before I decide what course of action to take. The wrong move could prove fatal.

    17. Enemy of the State says:

      I may only be 580 feet above sea level
      But in my crows nest another 30′ above that I’ll have my eyes on anyone that decides to screw up and come within 800 yards

      I’ll be staying right where I’ve prepped to stay
      All the stuff at my disposal that there would be no way to carry anywhere
      Home is where your most comfortable
      I know all the choke points , water sources , food sources
      And shelter
      I’ll defend what’s mine until the last brass case hits the ground

      • Sharon says:

        First shot you fire you’ll advertise two things.

        You are there.

        You have something you are willing to defend which means you have something desirable to steal.

        Most people talk about long range shooting as if they are in the Chris Kyle category, but my experience is most people also have serious trouble against fixed targets under rifle range conditions at anything more than a few hundred (or less) yards.

        Try actually shooting even a fixed and brightly colored target under calm wind conditions at, say, 500 or more yards (most people can’t even accurately estimate range or calculate ballistics at more than a hundred -where it doesn’t really matter- or so yards). So try to think about doing that under adverse conditions against moving targets that are shooting at you with wind and maybe rain or snow to contend with on top of it (I’ve noticed I almost never find anyone at the outdoor range I use when there is heavy wind, rain, or it’s snowing and cold).

        I’d advise a survival strategy more oriented in diverting attention somewhere other than where you are instead of looking desirable to plunder and pinning yourself down and attracting attention to that fact.

        • Kulafarmer says:

          Escape and evade
          Good points on long range shooting,
          Far too easy to mis read something,
          Slow and methodical,
          Good scope dope at the least,
          Many many variables

        • Sgt. Dale says:

          Sharon
          This goes both ways.
          The question is do they want to die for what you might have? If so, so be it.
          Sgt.

        • apache54 says:

          Sharon,
          you make very valid points, BUT for any of us to survive it will be in TWO situations
          1- evade and hide in a very small group
          2- have a very strong group who can defend a stronghold with enough supplies to exist for a long time and enough people to hunt down who is attacking you !

        • Enemy of the State says:

          Guess I should have disclosed that my perch is no where near my home
          First shot taken will be the last one taken from that point unless it OSOK
          Trust me I didn’t make it thru what I have at my age being dumb
          I just don’t always tell the whole story
          Opsec if you will
          I don’t intend to get cornered or fight from my shelter

        • nothing but net says:

          @Sharon Good advice but everyone should have suppressors, night vision glasses, and a range finder. That’s basic prepping. Your team should have scouts out 24/7 far enough from your BOL so that you find them before they find you. That’s basic military procedure.

          During SHTF anyone snooping and pooping in your area after dark is more likely a foe rather than a friend. I always think of the movie last of the Mohicans where the survivors are hiding in a grave yard when the other Indians trailing them pause and divert.

          Circumstances dictate.

        • Skeptic says:

          You know Sharon, I have thought a bit about shooting people. I have hunted most of my life and have good equipment and can use it over 300 yards in good conditions. On the other hand I have never killed a human and probably would be just fine in a fit of anger in a spur of the moment situation. If I had people moving in on my position and time to think about it I might well need a handful of barbituates to slow the shaking.

      • Richard Head says:

        @enemy

        So you’re just going to shoot anybody that comes within 800 yards of you. women, children, maybe just an honest traveler passing through with his rifle slung? This mentality will never rebuild a civilized free nation if some S does ever hit the fan.

      • hammerhead says:

        ENEMY –
        800 YARDS ???
        Damn , I have poor eyesight , and i couldnt see a target out 800 yards with the Huble telescope ! LOL

        At that distance make sure the helmet is BLUE .

    18. Ass hat says:

      Look at the peso it’s worth nothing. That’s were we are going will be using $100s like they are dollars. No the currency won’t collapse. But I’d say that is similar

    19. peckerwood says:

      this is becoming very common

      fake wanna be military fraudsters are they a threat in a emergency shtf event?

      the shtf and you run into someone like this on the street armed with a m16 rifle, he demands access to your preps by martial law edict, what do you do?

      Veteran Of 2/506th Calls Out Fake Ranger At Oxford Valley Mall

        • anonymous2 says:

          Thanks for posting that man. What a POS that guy was in the mall. I’ve never been in the military, but it wouldn’t have taken 10 seconds to see that guy had never been a Ranger just by the way he carried himself and his demeanor.

          I had a good friend who was a Ranger in Vietnam. They have a whole different mindset that gets communicated in everything they say and do.

      • Richard Head says:

        Thing is he’ll most likely be real active military or LEO, and fake or real if they point guns at you and demand your family’s lifelines, well lets just hope you’d have balls and the drop on em, and kill every last one of them or at least enough to cause them to retreat. Most likely though, most people will just give up their supplies and then file a formal complaint on a chat board

        • peckerwood says:

          which is why you always operate and sweep with a 2 man over watch sniper team if possible.

          or

          have a experienced advanced pointman as your contactman with cover and concealed over watch from the house or bugout retreat.

          or

          break contact and run for the nearest cover and concealment escape route firing at the hostiles forcing them to take cover.

        • Babycatcher55 says:

          I’m wondering if he’s stealing the military discount with decorations that do not belong to him….

      • anonymous2 says:

        “the shtf and you run into someone like this on the street armed with a m16 rifle, he demands access to your preps by martial law edict, what do you do?”

        You shove that M16 up his ass. That’s what you do.

        • Babycatcher55 says:

          Make sure he’s done for, and take his gun and ammo

        • You forgot a step.

          1. Shove that M16…

          2. Pull the trigger…

          Don’t let anyone fool you. Your rights DO NOT CHANGE under martial law. They might tell you they do but you still have your constitutional rights. They don’t change and anyone who tells you they do is, well, either mis-informed or a traitor. In my state civil authority ALWAYS overrules milistary authority. It is the supreme law of the land. There is no ability to suspend it.

          Shoot them dead. ALL OF THEM! Bandits are bandits, it matters not what kind of clownsuit they are wearing. Preferably avoid them. Terminate them if avoidance is not possible.

    20. Big Sky says:

      Head for the Rockies, that’s a good one. I see lowland dwellers huffing and puffing from their vehicles as they “hike” to the gift shops and lookouts in Glacier and Yellowstone. One in a thousand might be ready to venture into the interior with a day pack, much less the gear to survive more than a week and establish a shelter. The others? The bears and wolves will be fat and happy.

      Those that know the back country will find plenty to salvage. If you wear LT and 13D,I thank you in advance for your contributions.

      • DAMed in NY says:

        Yep. I sold one of my large tanks to a 40 yr old guy. Helped him carry all the stuff up the basement stairs in 5 gal containers partially filled. The guy was huffing and puffing after the first trip! Not me….and I am 60 yrs old. Many won’t make it. They won’t even make the effort.

    21. Kulafarmer says:

      Mac
      Is it possible to run that piece on the Russian family who ran for the hills?

    22. Copperhead says:

      Head for the Hills: OK, but if your city that you are fleeing from is not located already in them hills you’re not going to make period end of story. If you’re not already in the (HILLS or BOL) forget it you simply will not arrive. After the SHTF Event there is way, way too many factors to overcome to reach where you want to get to. So if you are not at that location before the SHTF stays put and defend your family. Just think about what to do and what you will face, PLEASE USE COMMONSENSE in your decision making.

    23. vtfree2 says:

      My only worry is for others, the children.

      The other main concern is nuclear plants, no electricity, generator fuel or man power to monitor your talking major melt down. Think Japan x1000.

      • Skeptic says:

        vtfree2;
        Have a couple of drinks, roll a fat boy, and things will get better. Absolutely no ether though. Take it from Hunter Thompson — There is nothing as terrifying as a man in the middle of an ether frenzy!

    24. Copperhead says:

      Yes I know it is from the NRA but worth watching IMHO.

      Borderless – Warning, graphic scenes. But not anything as bad as seen in the movies.

      Border Security – do not shy away from this video please.

      Powerful Video produced by the NRA (National Rifle Association), you need to be aware of this as a citizen of the U.S.A.

      Sheriff Larry Denver, (white cowboy hat and blue/white checkered shirt) is the long time sheriff of Cochise County . Cochise County is huge and borders Sonora , Mexico . The bald-headed guy is the Sheriff of Pinal County . North of Tucson , AZ.
      his video doesn’t say so, but Hwy 8, going from I-10 north of Tucson, thru Gila Bed and on to CA has a sign warning drivers not to stop or pick up hitchhikers because so many are illegals. They can be Mexican or any other foreign country.

      Powerful!! And absolutely factual!

      CLICK ON: http://www.youtube.com/v/za_8TOQFA8o

    25. Kulafarmer says:

      So what i want to know is if the ban on the M855 means it is now illegal to posess?
      You know where that goes dont you?
      Felony for posession,
      So when is enough enough?

    26. Arby says:

      Hey Tina in NY, still lookin’ for a place? hobbyfarm4us@gmail.com

    27. Confederate says:

      Regardless of where you go, with the technology the BIC’s have (bastards in charge) they will find you. I think it would be better to succumb in a place that your familiar with and take some the BIC’s with you.

    28. Stewpedaso says:

      stopped reading when it said “Head for the rockies”…BUAHAHAHAHA. You better be a hearty mutha fuka. Winter comes and u better be stocked and ready, this ain’t “Jeremiah Johnson”

    29. Sgt. Dale says:

      Leave it to Cornell ‘U” to tell us what to do. The Non-
      Leaches and Zombies have had bug out plans in place for many years and Cornell is just now coming up with this.
      Only in the case of World War, anything else forget it. With World War the American People will be united to fight a common enemy. Then you might get to the Rockies. With anything else you think for one second the people that live in Illinois will make it over the Mississippi River? “NOT”

      When the hordes start coming out of Shitcago to my location they won’t get very far. Most of them will be killed by the gangs with gang on gang war fare. They might get to the outskirts of Morris (maybe) where they are met by the folks that live there, and they won’t let them get to far. These folks that live in that area will want to live and know how to live off the land in this area. They are not going to give up their food and water to a bunch of Leaches and Zombies. Now this would be for economic, solar flair, any type of man made collapse.

      We all know that the Zombies and Leaches out there when the EBT cards, and their welfare checks stop they will start to migrate out of the Big Cities. They will have nothing and will Rape, Rob, and Murder to get what they want.

      For a short time I’m planning on staying put. With in a week, or so I will be leaving for my BOL#1 with a group of like minded folks. By that time the Police and Military will not be watch the roads they will be with their families.

      AIM SMALL MISS SMALL
      Sgt.

    30. Sharon says:

      FWIW

      If you live in a large city anywhere except, maybe, the outer outskirts you’re not going to be leaving it by any type of vehicle short of a tank or aircraft.

      Imagine a city wide full chaos situation developing with no authorities to provide even basic organization or maybe authorities that view you as the enemy – roads blocked by disabled and burning vehicles, bridges blocked by stalled and disabled vehicles and crowds of unruly people and roving gangs everywhere who are willing to kill you just for the fun if it.

      Try getting from the inner parts of the city to the country under those conditions. You will be on foot in short order.

      I’d suggest, if such a situation actually occurs, you try to lay low, keep yourself hidden, and wait till the masses settle down before walking out keeping in mind that any kind of vehicle -even a motorcycle or bicycle- is likely to make you a desirable target for left over roving street gangs or solo survivors in need of whatever you have to stay alive themselves.

      Of course, such a scenario is unlikely for any extended length of time, or on a city wide basis, but it doesn’t hurt to have plans for it if it does. Any plans you make for this can be applied to lesser situations as well.

      • Woogie says:

        I saw on TV last night a couple black ambulance drivers in a city were called to a scene of a black woman covered in blood, lying in the street. Even these black paramedics were too scared to get out of the ambulance and treat the woman when police hadn’t arrived first. They said the black neighborhood had come out to look and it was enough for them to stay put. Then another ambulance team arrived so there were more “good guys” to handle the victim. If blacks are afraid of their own black neighborhoods today, imagine when SHTF.

    31. The Prophet says:

      Obama banning 5.56 62 grain green tip ammo. Just the tip of the iceberg. If they can ban it because it is not “sporting ammo”, then they can ban any ammo or firearm that they determine is not for sporting purposes. What say you?

    32. Really??? says:

      When/IF something big hits that’s really nation wide, because even 9-11 was a LOCAL event to NYC only, and you’re not in your spot already then you ain’t getting there.

      Most don’t have nor can afford a BOL; better learn to make due in place. If your place is in the ‘burbs or city and you’re reading this you’re probably dead already (zero food, zero water and way too many people to defend against). Get the F out NOW.

      Prepare NOW, get out NOW if you can – if you can’t FIND A FRIGGING WAY.

      Really, this is old news in these circles. No one should be in the cities or burbs any longer that feels the stuff will hit the fan anytime in the next 5 years.

      Good luck.

    33. The Prophet says:

      Keep in mind, they are calling 62 grain green tip “armor piercing”. The bullet was issued to defeat enemy web gear which is worn on the chest to carry mags, etc. The 55 grain FMJ didn’t work well on web gear because the copper jacket would often disintegrate while trying to penetrate. Green tip ammo isn’t true armor piercing ammo. Black tip ammo is. You can be sure that the argument will turn to penetrating police vest armor. Commie dogs.

    34. GrandpaSpeaks says:

      One thing about them northern Rockies to all you city people, when the ice advances out of the mountain cirques, Al Gore won’t help you. Is it getting warmer or colder, your call. I have had almost frozen people stumble in my porch. Minus 30, Rockies, night time, cowboy boots and electric socks with dead batteries. The stupid ones will fall twisted like a tire biting dog. Their bones won’t last the winter. Their flip flops might though. Nature doesn’t like useless.

    35. Woogie says:

      Joel recommends almost deserts where you can drop dead from heat, wide open spaces where there is little rain, Texas with hurricanes and constant wild tornadoes, and mountainous terrain for bug out locations. You’d most likely die of thirst and starvation as the Bonners did. I suppose if you had a large group you can eat each other and drink your pee.

      I have a better location where I live where natives survived without contact from other people and trade. Plenty of resources and water, wild game, and woods. Not on Joel’s list and I don’t want it there either.

      • GrandpaSpeaks says:

        I hear you Woogie. I once passed a sign that said “You are now entering wilderness”. I turned around. I don’t know any good fishing spots either.

        • Woogie says:

          There’s so much fish in my lake area that I catch a keeper as soon as I put my hook in the water. An hour of fishing gets me my daily limit. 3 casts gave me the limit on northern pike. The water is so clear you can see 15-20 feet down, like fishing in a bowl…and why I keep it to myself.

    36. The only way we have a chance is to stay in the city and work together,,they want us out of the city because there are resorce’s that can quickly give us the upperhand and striegth to fight them….we either get along and fight and win or we run for the hills a scatter to the winds like socialy we all ready are..humans can live and servive like cockaroaches when we work together..human servival depends on working with eachother period…i wont be running for the hills. i will hold my faith like dannel in the lions den and hope..or die quicker… either way my soul is prepaired..

    37. Houst/Katy/Cypress/Shtf says:

      I just about lost bladder control when i read this. Just take a look at the size of that frikin city. Who the hell in thier right mind would want to be in that place when SHTF Commenses. Now when we think that we have heard it all, then this happpens.

      See link. The SHTF IS NOW UPON OUR AZZES.The very nighmare that i worried about for years is now knocking at our front doors. I use to be afraid, not wanting to post on this site, fear of who might be reading it, possible coming after me. But now it’s too late. I am not the pussfied type anymore. I have made preps like all the awesome posters on this site with Tes…….ar fortitude. The balls i have always wanted to have.

      http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2015/02/27/attack-arizonas-internet-beta-test-implementation-martial-law/

      Now read this link. One has to ask ones self, what the hell is really getting ready to happen. See Alerts on Stevequayle.com and see the alert that was posted backing ups the supporting link of Hodges. Dump in some Dr Jim Garrow ” failed emp event” from Youtube, then good luck sleeping tonight.

      Then to make things worst, i go to acadamy and the .223 & 5.56 is thinning down to almost nothing on the shelf, other rounds are depleting again, its happeing again. The luciferian cabalist, sons of bithes are really going to pull this crap arent they/. 1776 will commense.

      • DavidC says:

        I used to live in NYC, but I moved to upstate NY, where there are more guns than people, and virtually everyone in the country has extra food, ammo, gas, skills to survive virtually anything.

        That’s southern Manhattan in the photo, an island with two million people and two tunnels and three bridges to the mainland. Across the river is Queens and Brooklyn, total of about five million people, three or four bridges to the mainland. Beyond that is Long Island, god knows how many million people, two or three bridges to the mainland. You can travel for at least 15 miles in any direction, and still essentially be in the city. I have seen two-hour traffic tie-ups at 10 PM on perfect summer evenings because of construction on one of the bridges out of Queens… and there was no reason for panic, just a normal evening. Imagine if there was a real reason to bug out of the city.

        Most of the city folks do not have cars, and quite a few of them rely on the local diner or restaurant to feed themselves. Hell, I’ve seen morons with multi-million dollar apartments who have converted their stoves into storage for extra clothes. Those people are not prepared for any calamity whatsoever. I envision a hell-hole, in that case, where everyone is fighting for scraps, not getting anywhere near the country-side.

    38. First, if you agree that according to prophecy that America is Babylon then your only option is to leave this country. And to leave now. Because no amount of physical property prepping will help you survive. Why? Because in one hour this land will be burned and made desolate…..FOREVER!

      • Sharon says:

        I’d be more inclined to think that the prophetic Babylon is in the United States and not the whole of the country.

        Maybe New York City or Los Angeles, or even Washington D.C.

        Any of those places would meet the description, but I find it a bit hard to apply it to, say, Wyoming or North Dakota.

        Not that the entire United States wouldn’t be severely affected -it definitely would be- just not entirely destroyed.

    39. Organic Grower says:

      Survival herbs 2 for 1 tip today
      Eleutherococcus Senticosus (Siberian ginseng)
      This herb gives you extra energy and boosts natural interferons in the body

      Allium Sativum (garlic)
      Not only is garlic delicious it contains a compound called allicin (see its Latin name) nicknamed Russian penicillin. To get the full benefit you need fresh garlic cloves. Plant garlic in the fall and for bigger bulbs leave in the ground for 2 years. Crush garlic juices into cuts for the antibiotic effect, warning it does sting

    40. Ass hat says:

      Grew up with a kid that was a runt he went in the army and came out running his mouth and one of my buddies beat his ass good. It was funny as hell he said I don’t care if your a troop I still kick your ass. Just because you are military don’t mean you are strong. I saw the runt in Wally’s the other day it was the first thing I thought. Military does give you some awesome training though. It doesn’t mean every soldier is good. Maybe good enough to be a pawn in the fight. You take point private.

    41. Executive Order #380045:

      The Hobo Knife and Picnic Cutlery Improvement Act of 2015

      Plastic picnic sets are heretofore to be sold only with knife removed. All hobo knives to be sold shall have the knife section detached and discarded. Sporks are permitted as long as they hold no more than ten beans.

    42. Jim in Va. says:

      I’m buggin in….maybe a few bodies laying about the property will keep the others at bay. I have a group within the neighborhood that will do the same….we’ve already done some planning.

    43. American Indian says:

      Glad I live in way the hell out in the boonies

    44. Dana W says:

      I’ve lived in the Rockies before and I don’t see having everybody run their is a solution to their problems, to begin with there’s not a lot to eat up there and what is their would quickly disappear unless you know what your doing, it would entail becoming accustom to a drastically different diet. Also shelter is a must have in the winter.

    45. Adam Selene says:

      I may be a bright eyed optimist, but I have decided not to worry about a zombie apocalypse. I would like to comment about the “Golden Horde”.

      The Golden Horde scenario came out of the cold war and the expected nuking of the cities if the war went hot as almost happened in ’62 and ’67. The theory was that when people crawled out of the ruble or their basements they would flee the radiation zones. It made sense, but it called for a series of conditions that an economic collapse is not likely to have.

      1. It happens fast. In a nuke war the exchange will either be massive from the start or will accelerate rapidly. In an economic collapse, the effect would be spread out over time as the government tries to compensate. The government will not disappear immediately and will have food, gasoline etc. It will continue to function at least for awhile.

      2. People don’t listen to warnings and expect the government to take care of them. They knew Katrina was coming and still many people stayed in New Orleans. They were waiting for the government to take care of them and for a while it will. By the time they realize that they were wrong, it will be too late.

      3. Where are they going to go? The people in the cities and suburbs don’t have anywhere to go. It is one thing to flee a burning city, it is another to leave what you know and head out with what you can carry in a car or on foot. Grandpa doesn’t live on a farm anymore, he lives in Sun City Arizona

      4. The 300 mile range is based on a full tank of gas. Exactly how many people are driving around with full tanks of gas? And if the money is worth nothing how will they get gas?

      5. If people are on foot, they are not going to get far in a group. People move fairly slowly and they will have to stop to look for food and water. Anything near the cities or suburbs will be stripped quickly which will add to the travel time. The most violent are likely to prey on the relatively helpless refugees first and take on the armed people in the countryside later.

      6. Summer and winter. Either of these will drastically slow a mob’s progress.

      7. There is some sort of myth about food in the country. Most farms are single or two crop businesses. They rely on trucked in food, less than urbanites, but the days of homestead farms are long gone. The grain is in large bins and those bins will be protected.

      There are some scenarios in which a “Golden Horde” event is likely, but economice collapse is not one of them.

      • notsogreat says:

        7. There is some sort of myth about food in the country. Most farms are single or two crop businesses. They rely on trucked in food, less than urbanites, but the days of homestead farms are long gone. The grain is in large bins and those bins will be protected.

        Bingo-just as all supply and food warehouses will be protected–does anyone think Walmart hasn’t been constructing plans for the hordes??

      • What would they do with grain?

    46. Denver and Colorado are densely populated and, if you have millions of preppers, the golden horde and millions of sheeple headed for the Rockies, that’s going to be one very crowded mountain range.

    47. Shar says:

      This just happened on Feb 25th – Attack On Arizona’s Internet Was the Beta Test for the Implementation of Martial Law…. http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2015/02/27/attack-arizonas-internet-beta-test-implementation-martial-law/

    48. Ed in FL says:

      I’ve lived in the south near the swamp all my life and would see no reason to go anywhere else. Its warm most of the year and food can be found almost everywhere if you know what to look for. I’m not saying run to FL when SHTF but to run much past what your familiar with would be self defeating.

    49. Ass hat says:

      Everyone is so upset with the ammo ban I don’t have an ar so it don’t apply to me. It is ridiculous how they ban ammo. Right next door in Massachusetts they can’t have over ten round mags and forget about Connecticut. I’m picking up what ever I can afford it’s coming to here soon. They try to put bills through in the middle of the night. People around here are not letting in to the gun grabbers. Whatever they want to ban you need to get look at as an investment in your future. I’m very surprised they haven’t controlled mag limits yet. Ammo is available just not 22 but who cares it’s weak. I would rather have bigger caliber even if it costs more

    50. Ass hat says:

      I’m putting heads on the fence posts and a crescent moon on the roof. One of my buddies took the tail gate off his truck and shot some rounds into it there is rust around the holes now he said people look at him like he nuts he loves it. Hell why fight if you can scare the shit out of people and possibly not have to. Who would bother you if you look nuts. Could probably survive shtf without firing a shot.

    51. anon says:

      American Blackout 2013 – National Geographic

    52. southside says:

      I will bug in with my cats for as long as possible,than move out to my second local. Babycatcher, any of those black sites in Tucson? I would like to pay a visit. Do say. It should go without saying Phoenix has one,or two.

    53. I think we have much less to worry about. One of the things most of you are doing is that you are thinking how *YOU* would take care of yourselves if you were stuck in the city.

      Unfortunately (for them) and fortunately (for us), they don’t think like us. They won’t think, “Oh! I can’t eat but I can go out into the country and get something to eat.” No, they’ll hear rumors of people getting shot and they will cower in fear and hunger, mostly, until its too late.

      In the mind of the wageslaves that don’t realize what is going on, it will process much differently that it will in our minds. By the time they realize whats going on, they’ be weak. They’ll hang around the grocery stores until they’re almost too weak to walk and then they’ll try and “make it out” and they won’t.

      Understand, I’ve dealt with city people and non-thinkers for a long time. There are millions of people that live in the city that haven’t got a clue how stuff works, where stuff comes from or where stuff grows. Not all people that live in the city are bad. Not all people that live in the city are “city people”. So, here is my breakdown.

      Of the totaly population of a city. By group, it is my estimate that:

      Group A (5%) will walk out at “first light” during a collapse.

      (one week)

      Group B (5%) will walk out when it starts to get bad.

      (two weeks)

      Group C (10%) will escape when they’re just barely able to get out.

      Group D (20%) will die by this time because of resource squabbles.

      (four weeks)

      Group E (50%) will then attempt to escape but will be too weak and will die trying.

      (eight weeks)

      Group F (10%) will remain and will eventually leave, mostly on raids to get food and return. They’ll mostly stay in the cities but will be transient as they raid and relocate.

      The timeline above assumes zero government support. With food and water relief, things could change drastically.

      Groups A and B won’t be a problem. They’re preppers, they either have a place to go, know what to do or can be a plus to any group to absorb. They’ll come (unless stripped of it for one reason or another) with skills, food, tools and guns either with them or at their destination.

      Group C is a dangerous group. They’ll mostly be city dwellers that don’t have a clue about surviving and no preparations. They just have enough clue to GET OUT. Your best guess on these people. They mostly won’t be trustworthy and they’ll have nothing to offer. Help them if you can but be VERY cautious.

      Group D and E are contained by either their weakness and dying off in place or to being murdered by Cs, Ds, Es and Fs.

      Group F is the one we need to worry about. They’re the ones that have no preps but they’re shooters, raiders, rapers and criminals. They’re the ones that say on here that they’re too lazy to prep and they’ll just steal what they need. After the 8 weeks are up, these people should be shot if they show any type of provocation for agression or theft.

      I’ll help the As and Bs as much as I can. If I feel I can trust Cs, I may take them in. If I feel I can’t, I will send them on their way. If they return they’ll be fertilizing the trees pretty quickly.

      There will be no “golden horde” because 70% will stay in the city looking to government for relief while they’re either murdered or die from conditions before or after they decide to leave. The 10% that will walk out and make it out is a problem but they’re mainly harmless hungry idiots that can be either scared off or used to fertilize your woods.

      The last group, the 10% that remain and thrive by murdering the others and raiding outside the city, are the ones that worry me.

      My perimeter security will be this: The place will be roped off and if they stay on the path, they won’t be shot immediately. We’ll ask you what you want and give you a chance to leave if we’re not doing business. Come through the woods or via any other approach and there will be no warning shot, unless we just accidently miss on the first shot.

      But, frankly, I don’t see a collapse in the future as much as I do just a simple, continual winding down. This presents different problems to be discussed later.

    54. Great Prepper property – 35acres & up, southern Colorado forested land – elevation about 7,100 — coloradoforest.com (very private/remote, very low population, forested, game at hand: elk deer turkey … ) This land was initially developed back in the late 1980s. Some of the finest in Las Animas County.

    55. Ass hat says:

      Colorado is there power lines near this land and is it considered wetland. I’m in New England 40 mins south of Boston. I’ve been looking to move away from here. What’s the price for land like this and taxes. Around here anyone over like 5 to 10 acres pays high property tax. There is good land but pricy. How far from the nearest city. I’m a truck driver so is there jobs that pay. I’m used to freezing my ass off so cold and snow no problem.

      • moutaingypsy says:

        Look up ‘LandWatch’ or realtor sites. There seems to be a lot of property (35 acres and up) well ‘under’ $50,000, available in that area, as ranches are broken up. It is not wet land, some hilly, some pasture like and up into the real mountains, decent altitude, cedar and pine and scrub, lots of wildlife. This is west of I 25 and west of the Trinidad to Pueblo area. Taxes are cheap. Land near the rich areas of Denver, the Springs, and tourist places are high and restricted. Also land east of I 25 in that area. This is about an hour from Pueblo, should be plenty of jobs, up and down I 25. I would leave any north east cities, asap!

    56. Joe Mamma says:

      Folks, you’ll come here to find that we already have the roads barricaded. You aren’t getting in.

    57. Nickname says:

      LOL! If everybody did that it will no longer be the Rockies, but the Cities in the Rockies.

      No, my fiend you gotta think of something else.

    58. Feisty Old Broad says:

      There will be virtually NO place to hide…this is why all GOOD people must come together….in FAITH to defeat the evil which will be assaulting US all….

    59. MaryB says:

      Bulk of city dwellers won’t make it past the suburbs before the inner city animals take them down as prey. Those that do make it into the country will be targets and won’t make it 60 miles for most of them because rural people will not want more mouths to feed.

      With no survival skills, most unarmed, with nowhere they are welcome in the countryside they are better off forming self defense groups in suburbs they can defend. Pick developments with only 1 road in and natural defenses along the other side like water or woods.

      I live rural, very tiny town of under 300. 125 miles to the nearest big city. We have met and made plans to defend what is ours including the surrounding farms. Strangers will be shot on sight, no mercy because it will threaten the rest of our survival!

    60. adam3030 says:

      I like the series sparticas when they get pushed to the top of a mountain, and the romans wait for them to starve,I believe there are lots of places to go excluding a never going to happen zombie brain fest. Hidding in plain site might be a good start, but then again for every suggestion there will be ten people to correct me, so good luck fellow preppers.

    61. Madmountin says:

      I Have been on this site for 2 years now and this is my first post. I’m Madmountin. 21 year Army paratrooper (retired). I have been living in SW Idaho for the last 19 years. I grew up in Detroit Mi. And go there to visit my family. I’m the only one in my family west of the Mississippi River. Some of my siblings are only 15 miles from Dearborn Mi. Home to 75K Muslims and I have tried to get them to move to Idaho. My main point is that a couple years ago I remarried and moved to a city of 3K people. So I have a 4BR home on 3 acres outside Weiser Idaho that I’d like to sell to a like minded family who is prepared for the troubled times ahead. Good schools, good hunting (elk deer and upland birds , geese and duck ). The fishing is also great. Hells Canyon is only 1 hour away. Job market is so-so. If you’re serious about relocating to the American Redoubt I can be reached at sfctbg@gmail.com

    62. Karen says:

      I am a supporter of the shelter-in-place mentality.

      If you are smart, you will set up your life, right now, to live like you would have to anyway if TSHTF. Then, maybe, just maybe, you will have a chance.

      This includes shelter, water, sanitation, lighting, heat, your saved food and the food you are growing, appropriate clothing and self defense, among others.

      If all the support systems are not in place at the time of disaster (at least the ones that don’t tear you or your house apart or make it unlivable), you will not survive.

    63. Bubba says:

      Long pork solves all your problems!

    64. Old Guy says:

      Whatever happened to the EBOLA that was supposed o go viral during the cold weather?

    65. risky buisness says:

      chest thumping aside, large groups of unprepared sheeple will, without any doubt become pirates, cause mass destruction, carelessly cause fires and have to unfortunately, be dealt with by the folks who live in the Rockys. It’s an often hyped theme: head for the hills, but the realistic part of that is folks who couldn’t plan well enough to ride out the emergency in the first place wont have the wherewithal or skill sets to adequately deal with the challenges of the area,not withstanding the event that caused their displacement in the first place, so, lets not give credence to an unworkable solution.

    66. Anti Snakbarian says:

      It’s not “when” the collapse comes.

      We are in the midst of the collapse.

      It’s happening right now and it might increase exponentially….

    67. Dirtygreek says:

      When the 440+ nuke plants melt down,how y’all gonna run from that?!?!?!?!??!?! Hot damn ‘merikan bolesheet!!!!!!

    68. Bruce says:

      Straight to Hell (Do not pass go; do not collect $200! Gonzo infernalism!! – an Eternal Flamer

     
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