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    Feds Preparing “Multi-Agency” Action In Oregon As Patriot Militia Says They Are “Willing To Kill And Be Killed”

    Mac Slavo
    January 3rd, 2016
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (430)
    Read by 35,813 people

    Updated Report: It’s Getting Real: Fully Armed FBI Agents En Route To Oregon Federal Building

    Also See: Patriot Rising: How the Oregon Standoff Could Affect Your Freedoms

    bundy-oregon-1

    What started as a peaceful protest in Burn, Oregon over the imprisonment of two ranchers who lit fires on federal land to curb the growth of invasive plant species and reduce the risk of wildfires on their property has turned into an armed standoff pitting the Federal government against armed Patriot militiamen.

    Joining the Burn protest were Ammon and Ryan Bundy, the sons of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy who was at the center of a grazing rights dispute in Bunkerville, Nevada in 2014. At Bunkerville as many as 5,000 armed individuals from around the country joined the dispute and eventually pushed back scores of heavily armed Federal government agents. At the time, Senator Harry Reid called Bundy supporters “nothing more than domestic terrorists.”

    In Oregon this weekend, Cliven Bundy’s sons split off from the main protests with up to 50 people, including militia members, and have occupied the headquarters of the national wildlife refuge. The two are now calling for more people to join the protest and say that they are not only prepared for a years’ long occupation, but are willing to kill (and die) to achieve their goals.

    Ammon Bundy, an Idaho militia leader, said that while the occupiers were not looking to hurt anyone, they would not rule out violence if police tried to remove them, the Oregonian reported.

    Bundy’s brother Ryan Bundy, who is also an occupier, told the Oregonian that they’re ‘willing to kill and be killed’ if necessary, adding that the federal officials’ actions have been ‘in violation of the constitution’. 

    ‘We’re calling people out here to come and stand. We need you to bring your arms and we need you to come to the Malheur National Wildlife refuge,’ he said.

    The second man, dressed in camouflage gear, said the group is challenging the government.

    ‘Until that line is drawn to say “We’ve had enough of this tyranny, you are going to leave us alone”, it will not change,’ he said. ‘This is the power of America right here.

    ‘People got together for this and it doesn’t have to stop here. This could be a hope that spreads through the whole country.

    ‘Everybody’s looking for this hope because the government has beat us, oppressed us and took everything from us. They will not stop until we tell them no.’

    Source: The Daily Mail

    But not everyone supports the takeover of a Federal building, especially locals living near the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, some of whom have called for a law enforcement response. Even Dwight and Steven Hammond, the ranchers facing jail time for their illegal fires, have rejected the Bundy family’s presence.

    Dwight Hammond Jr, 73, and his son Steven Hammond, 46, are at the center of a dispute over grazing rights after starting fires to stop invasive plants from growing on their land in 2001 and 2006.

    Despite serving jail time for arson three years ago a judge has ruled their initial sentences were insufficient.

    But the father and son insist they plan to comply with law enforcement – and insist the armed demonstrators are nothing to do with them.

    A sign tacked outside a Burns. Oregon, home reflects growing community sentiment that outsider militia aren’t welcome…

    bundys-oregon

    The Bundy’s occupation has come under attack by hundreds of Twitter users utilizing the hashtag #OregonUnderAttack. Citing racial factors, some argue that while law enforcement was quick to deploy riot police in Ferguson, they have done nothing to stop the Bundy’s armed occupation in Oregon:

    Via RT: This has, naturally, led to accusations of terrorism by those online who see Bundy’s actions as unlawful, to put it mildly. Those people also believe it is groups like blacks and Muslims who are typically and often unfairly associated with the word. Outrage grew over both a lack of response from the National Guard, as well as the mainstream media’s avoidance of issuing labels where white people are normally concerned.

    But according to Harney County Sheriff Dave Ward, law enforcement is planning to take action and has warned people to stay away from the area:

    Owing to the location’s remote nature, the authorities largely acted the same as the journalists and issued warnings for people to stay away from the area. They promised more information to come and the sheriff told US media there would be action by “multiple agencies” in the morning.

    A standoff is brewing in Oregon. This time, however, militia members led by Ammon and Ryan Bundy have taken over a Federal building with firearms in tow.

    Unlike Nevada, where armed protests were taking place on open land , the wildlife refuge building has likely been encircled by law enforcement, so those who do show up to lend support will probably be too far away to make a difference.

    While the Bundy’s stand against the Federal government should be applauded, there is something to be said for picking ones battles, as Karl Denninger notes:

    There’s an old saying that I’ve heard many times before — if you think it’s time to take a stand grab your rifle and head out the front door.  If you’re the only one out there it’s not time.

    The question now is how far the Bundy’s are willing to take this? We can be 100% certain that the multiple federal agencies involved are more than willing to kill to ensure compliance with Federal law.

    Watch as the militia outlines their occupation strategy in Oregon:

    Updated Report: It’s Getting Real: Fully Armed FBI Agents En Route To Oregon Federal Building

    Also See: Patriot Rising: How the Oregon Standoff Could Affect Your Freedoms

    Related:

    Harry Reid Calls Cliven Bundy Supporters “Domestic Terrorists”

    Feds Push For Total Control of Property Rights: “Government is Named as the Owner of ALL the Water”

    Cities and Local Governments Paving the Way for Federal Totalitarian Dictatorship: “Another Back-door Method to Gain Control”

    Texas Police Chief Warns Obama That Gun Control Will “Cause A Revolution… You’re Not Our Potentate, Sir”

    Click here to subscribe: Join over one million monthly readers and receive breaking news, strategies, ideas and commentary.
    Advanced Tactical Gas Mask
    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post

    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 35,813 people
    Date: January 3rd, 2016
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

    430 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. Anonymous says:

      this ain’t gonna end peacefully. it won’t be like Nevada. the feds are gonna shoot to kill this time and they’ll keep the cameras away so we can’t see what is happening.

      • eppe says:

        Maybe drones with cameras have a purpose in life…

        • SterlingSilver says:

          So I was at the protest and peace March in Burns yesterday. I went to the Hammonds residence and spoke w Pete Santilli and have conversed with Ammon Bundy. However, I did NOT know that Ammon had plans to take the Refuge with Cooper, Ritzheimer, and Payne. In fact, the peaceful people standing up for the Ranchers felt violated by Bundy’s actions and felt like they hijacked a peaceful redress and tainted the spirit of what we tried to accomplish. I obviously declined Bundy’s offer to the crowd to make a “Hard Stand” at the refuge.

          However, there is more to the back story here. People have been working for months to convene a grand jury, establish an evidentiary hearing, get a fair trail instead of the kangaroo court that convicted Hammonds in the first place. This entire story wreaks of corruption by the BLM and other agencies that have colluded with conflicts of interest throughout. What Bundy and his merry band of co-horts did was out of sheer frustration.

          As of now, they have not fired a single shot, harmed a single person, vandalized any property, or stolen anything. While they me be termed “terrorists”, in my opinion, they have only committed breaking and entering and probably trespassing. I hope this de-escalates peacefully.

          • john stiner says:

            Thanks for sharing your info.

            It seems from the headlines that the Bundys want to start a Waco or Ruby Ridge.

            I really don’t see the need for an armed confrontation with the Bundys over some building that is vacant and not being used for anything.

            Just wait until the leave in a week or two then arrest them when they go to the grocery store.

            If they want a shooting war then they should go after the FEDS involved in the prosecution.

            • durangokidd says:

              Another serious mistake by the Bundy Clan, no doubt because they realize that the jig is up in Nevada and it is only a matter of time before they are eventually arrested there, their cattle seized, and their ranch confiscated and sold at auction to pay for the fines, court costs, and lease fees they owe to the American Taxpayer.

              Any Patriot that follows the bogus actions of the a Bundy’s that are not really grounded in personal liberty is a fool. If these so called “patriots” and/or “oathkeepers” really wanted to serve the Constitution they should be on the Texas, New mexico, and Arizona borders
              shooting any ILLEGALS and Jihadists who attempt to infiltrate the USA.

              The Oregon Rancher is another story altogether, with its own set of circumstances. These ranchers served an appropriate term of incarceration (although probation would have been more reasonable) and should not be retried after already having served their sentence.

              This would be “double jeopardy” and the case should be dismissed. :-)

              • Bob Traut says:

                You went FULL RETARD.

                • john stiner says:

                  HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

                • durangokidd says:

                  And your SPECIFICS dumbfuck??? Make an argument or kiss my fucking ass !!! :-)

                  • SterlingSilver says:

                    durangokidd: how is shooting illegals on the border and act of defending the Constitution any more than defending the rights of We the People against the land grabs of a federal corporate bureaucrats that have stripped thousands of ranchers of their livelihoods, miners from working their lawful claims, and the many of multiple uses of public land that are being stripped from the use of We the People?

                    What an intelligent distinction to make that makes no sense at all. I think this is where the FULL RETARD comment came from.

                  • durangokidd says:

                    Sterling Silver: The Bundy Ranch fiasco, as an example, was not a “land grab”. Bundy leased almost 500 square miles of taxpayer owned land. Then he stopped paying his lease fees. For 20 years. When you refuse to pay your rent your leased fee rights to the land expire. Bundy severed his own rights; for whatever reason or motivation he may have had. You can’t fix stupid.

                    His choice.

                    Is it any wonder that he should be expelled from the land? Is it any wonder that the FEDS were open to another user (solar farm) leasing the land? That is not a land grab.

                    The other 110,000 plus ranchers in the West pay their fees, which are minimal, and subsidize the price of raising beef for the rancher.

                    Each situation you lump together in a broad brush has its own legal circumstances. Each case must be evaluated individually. I know of only one particular situation (in Arizona) where a miner’s claims on public lands were not renewed when the area became a national monument. The miner was not actively mining the land at the time and his claims were withdrawn from public lease at expiration.

                    This was well within the right of the Federal Government to do so, but I do not believe that this particular land should have been classified as a National Monument because there is considerable mineral wealth there which should be developed. The one good thing about the National Monument is that it stops the expansion of Phoenix to the north.

                    The Federal Government IS moving to close access to our public lands (Agenda 21) and we need to fight them over that access. :-)

                  • durangokidd says:

                    SS: Defending the border against foreign intrusion is defending our sovereignty; which is defined and supported by the Constitution and our immigration law.

                    Thus there is justification for shooting terrorists, jihadists, and ILLEGALS who are trafficking drugs, people, and weapons. :-)

                  • durangokidd says:

                    SS: I am aware of efforts in Kalifornia for the Forest Service to deny access and use to small miners of rivers and streams; and for the use of dredges etc, to protect fish and habitat.

                    The latest info that I have on that is that university studies show that small mining and the use of dredges actually benefit fish habitat, so those regulations have been overturned.

                    These limitations have been successfully fought in Court by WE THE PEOPLE. Make a donation. Help a miner. :-)

                  • Shlonger says:

                    I always knew DK liked ass fucking.

                  • Meaney says:

                    “This was well within the right of the Federal Government to do so”

                    Hey Durango, try re-reading the 10th Amendment.

                  • durangokidd says:

                    Yes, I am a “statist” and I want to live in the State that our Fore Fathers founded. :-)

                  • durangokidd says:

                    Meany: I have read and re-read the 10th Amendment. The actions of the Bundy Family, in Oregon and Nevada, are not a States Rights issue.

                    Nevada is a simple case of commercial Law: Trespass and Eviction for non payment of rent.

                    Oregon is a simple case of negligence, through arson, by the Hammond Family, when their back fire got out of control and burned 127 acres of Taxpayer Land.

                    Was the penalty harsh ? Yes, kit appears so, but I am not privvy to the details !!! The penalty imposed upon the Hammonds could and should be resolved by the Courts with the Hammond Family Lawyer and any friendly justice institute who might offer their legal help.

                    It has nothing to do with the Bundy Family and the Hammonds do not want the Bundy’s interfering in their business.

                    In both cases, actions by individual family members sparked (no pun intended) a conflict between land owners governed by Lease Agreement or Local Law.

                    If your bond fire or barbecue spreads unexpectedly by the wind and burns your neighbor’s house or property, you are responsible for the damage to that property. End of story.

                    Was jail time for “arson” or “terrorism” justified? Not in my opinion. It would appear that the Court has imposed a harsh sentence. It would appear that resentencing after serving the original sentence is unconstitutional, and not justified. Higher authorities do need to get involved in this case.

                    The Bundy Family is not a “higher authority”. :-)

                    Please define the States Rights Issue in these cases for me; because to my knowledge, the States are not complaining, so the Tenth Amendment is not an issue.

                  • Cellar Spider says:

                    I have been telling you all for years that the DK is a NWO believer and probably a paid contractor. He’s wrong on everything…including his most latest gaff on the chinese Yuan being included in the Special Drawing Right.

                  • durangokidd says:

                    I agree. Armed insurrection must be the direct result of a specific elimination of an enumerated Constitutional Right, like gun confiscation.

                    The Liberty Movement must retain the legal and moral high ground if it is to be successful. To be successful, it must have sufficient support from the American People.

                    TRUMP’s support is a reflection of the dissatisfaction of the American People with the status quo, and is a good base to build upon.

                    Liberty Movement writers like Brandon Smith could have a more profound impact on behalf of the Liberty Movement if he applied his skills to these issues, and a wider audience.

                    Such a message should FOCUS on individual rights and liberties and avoid religious themes like “abortion” as an example. Abortion, as an example, has been debated for 40 years without a public consensus.

                    The American People as a whole are socially liberal and rightly or wrongly support abortion as a matter of choice. To concentrate upon abortion, as an example, is to lose sight of the bigger picture.

                    The American People love FREEDOM. So much so they accepted FREE TRADE when the NWO sold it to them as a FREEDOM. Personal FREEDOM consistent with the values established by our Founders, ought to be, and need to be, sold to the masses again.

                    If Americans do not rally around the singular issue of their FREEDOM as annotated by the US Constitution, and preserve it from the NWO; it won’t matter whether abortion is legal, excessive penalties are imposed by judges as minimum sentences, or the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th Amendments are followed by the Courts.

                    If the Liberty Movement does not coalesce behind a singular Constitutional issue: the Constitution itself, all of these battles will be lost: America will be merged into the North American Union under UN auspices, and ALL of our FREEDOMS dissolved.

                    Engage. :-)

                • Weedhopper says:

                  Yes he did…full retard

              • sixpack says:

                It;s my understanding that they don;t intend to “retry” the Oregonians, they just decided amongst themselves that the judge let them out too soon, so they expect to re-incarcerate them without any proceedings whatsoever.

                I would not have surrendered to be peacefully locked up again after serving what they told me to serve. These men will probably lose their ranch, which seems to be the govt’s goal anyway. This is every bit as corrupt as what the BLM did to the Bundys. I will BET YOU there is a big CHINESE corporation waiting to invest, and they want this land—just like in Nevada.

                Wait and see.

                I agree that WE, The People need to draw a line somewhere, I’m just not sure this is the way to draw that line.

                • john stiner says:

                  These people seem like they have resolve…..

                  MESSAGE FROM MARINE JON RITZHEIMER! BLM ALERT

                  • Makemyday says:

                    May God look after Jon Ritzheimer. Would that there were millions more like him.

                    I hope all here look at that video; then look yourself in the mirror, ask yourself what kind of patriot you really are.

                  • Ron Ahrens says:

                    A TRUE HERO AND PATRIOT I SALUTE YOU JON-YOU ARE A REAL OATHKEEPER, and not a cowardly lazy fat ass who takes an oath and then sits on his chemically altered toxic dump fat ass talking shit about TRUE PATRIOTS like JON

                  • envythedead says:

                    Follow this forum from people on the ground.. AND TAKE THE TIME to read this!!!

                    http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4163331&postcount=68

                  • Human says:

                    dumb redneck with a gun…hope he does pay with his life so he cant reproduce.

                  • Anonymous says:

                    Thanks for sharing that J. S.

                    Lord, wrap your loving arms around these patriots and shelter them with your hedge of protection. Let this event end peacefully and your people triumph. This nation was founded by gallant souls such as Jon Ritzheimer, who, before their own strengths, turned to you for the fortitude necessary to form, construct, and write the most amazing document in history, aside from your living word. Father, guide, direct, preserve and protect those souls taking a stand against tyranny. Oh that I could be there.

                    Thank you, Father God for your direction and protection in these last days. May we be ever mindful of the gift you have given us in your Son, Jesus Christ, and may you bless each person on this site with your mercy, grace, and wisdom.

                    In the most precious name of the living Christ, Yashua, Amen

                • Anonymous says:

                  Lines won’t be drawn if others don’t honor the ones that are drawn. Everyone’s grievance is government/law-based since all crooked legalities are enforced by government’s guns. Crooks hide behind law. For the masses who bleat about the “taxpayer’s” right to be paid for using “their” land–how much does the government pay you from those rents they charge you or anyone else to use “your” land? The powers-that-be who really do control “your” land for their purposes expect–and pretty much have the masses bleating approval–that the elites should own everything and that you should pay them for any permission they might give you to use it (probably only as they tell you to use it, for their benefit–as their slave).

              • Chuck Gericke says:

                It is easy to find fault in the Bundys actions at this point. But if you had been through what they have and now see others being the victim of illegal acts of government, you too may act with out thinking things through. Stop and ask yourself at what point do we say enough. Voters put people in office and were sold out the system is broken and corrupt. Obozo and the rest of the horse thevin polcats are not about to stop until they take total control. they enforce their will and call it law as they point guns at us. BLM started fires, home were destroyed and none of them went to jail. The law should be the same for all. But it’s NOT. Dont kid yourself if this does not start a fight, it will be something else because THEY want an excuse to stomp on us all. So I guess it comes down to each of us deciding where to draw that line. How much is your freedom worth ?

              • Shlonger says:

                Thanks, DKTS (DK the statist).

              • Anonymous says:

                The Feds are going to storm that building and kill everyone involved in this. Although I believe in property rights, that land is owned by the BLM and all Americans. For that reason, I look forward to my government killing all of these terrorists.

              • Lone wolverine says:

                Who’s the fool ? I say the one believing the government media lies.

              • Lone wolverine says:

                Remember the Alamo?

              • Leonard says:

                Are you nuts? The Constitution doesn’t allow the feds to own any land except for necessary office bldgs, munitions storage facilities/forts and dockyards. That’s IT. They don’t own the land upon which the “illegal” fire occurred any more than the Hammonds do. The huge landgrab started under Teddy Roosevelt, and then really ratcheted up during the Carter years, when The Homestead Act was rescinded. Now, through federal “magic”, the feds claim every piece of undeveloped land throughout the nation. While I don’t want to see anyone killed, if someone has to die, it should not be ANY of the protesters, who aren’t planning to go looking for trouble. If anyone comes looking for trouble, it will likely be “law” enforcement. Hopefully, this will end peacefully, with the Hammonds getting their sentences commuted or a new trial, and the Bundys et al going home. We can only pray…

          • A Friend says:

            Don’t trust a word out of Pete Santilli’s mouth.

            Pete is controlled opposition who reports directly to the FBI. He is an FBI whore. Ban him.

            Patriots in Oregon, be sharp and discerning about your operational security. Beware, the FBI lives for moments such as what is occurring in Oregon.

          • Bob Traut says:

            “the peaceful people standing up for the Ranchers felt violated by Bundy’s actions”

            Do you speak for everyone there and how they are feeling? Nice talent.

            • durangokidd says:

              Bundy’s actions are not lawful. They are not Constitutionally based. Without Constitutional Principles supporting his actions he has no moral authority, and Bundy’s cause is not just.

              Even the ranchers that Bundy supposedly supports, disown his actions and the people in the town want Bundy to go home, if the posted signs on individual homes have any significance.

              Bundy says he is prepared to stay in the building for years. Not likely. And he cannot go home. He will die there, as he should.

              If he were a real Patriot and not someone trying to manipulate others to support his irrational argument for armed resistance, he and his group would be on the Southern Border.

              There is a place for armed resistance to tyranny in this country, but Bundy Ranch and the Oregon federal building is not it.

              If you have an argument asswipe, make it. :-)

              • areyouready? says:

                “”He will die there, as he should.””

                Well, show more of that christian heart man.
                Puh–Leeze do not call yourself God leaning.

              • durangokidd,

                Wow with 1 simple statement I lost total respect for you. If you think the BLM and the government have not been overstepping their authority for the last few years then maybe you’re just not the the brightest crayon in the box!! Dust off the constitution and read up on exactly what land our federal government has the right to own!!

                I look forward to your response.

                Not One More Inch.. C.A.T.I Y.M.F.
                DPS

                • Anonymous says:

                  DPS,
                  I’m sure a response is in his archives.

                • durangokidd says:

                  That Oregon federal building is not the Alamo. This is a criminal action by Bundy without any lawful justification. He WANTS to die there. Let him!!!

                  This is not a peaceful protest where unarmed demonstrators are singing Kumbaya and handcuffing themselves to the desks to make a point and bring awareness to America by nonviolent civil disobedience.

                  He wants to die there. Let him!!!

                  This is not the late 60’s where hippies and draft card burners are passing out flowers to the National Guard in DC to protest the Vietnam War; or veterans themselves throwing their medals on the ground in disgust to protest.

                  Bundy does not have the moral or legal high ground and his actions UNDERMINE THE REAL LIBERTY MOVEMENT. His actions negatively color the perception of the American people against the Militia and by extension, Oath Keepers. Separate the wheat from the chaff. This man is a criminal, not a Patriot. !!!

                  BTW I don’t need your respect. I am a man and have self respect, self confidence, self awareness, and I am self reliant. I do not live for the approval of others. I live for the expression of the life God gave me.

                  Respectfully, everyone else can fuck off. :-)

                  • Arizona Dude says:

                    DK, I’ve read your posts for some time now and I can say without a doubt you are a selfish spineless individual with no huevos. You haven’t been burnt yet by the feds but you’ll get your turn in time.

                  • Somfa K'nGai says:

                    No point you being here then.

                  • Lone wolverine says:

                    DK. How can you think you know every detail of this case to make that statement? A criminal act whitout any justification . Are you one of the lawyers on the case? Or do you just watch the news on TV a lot?

                  • durangokidd says:

                    Arizona Dude: Not true. I have been fucked over by the government many, many times; just last week as a matter of fact. I hate my government, just as you do.

                    The difference between you and I, is that I am smart enough to recognize that the actions of the Bundy Clan, in Oregon and at the Bundy Ranch in Nevada, are responses to their hatred of the government too, but not lawful responses to any specific law, specific injustice to them, or specific Constitutional Liberty; and you are not.

                    Thus their response is criminal in nature.

                    This criminal response adversely colors the perception of the American People with respect to Militia, guns, and Second Amendment Constitutional Rights. It undermines a justifiable armed response by the People for a REAL violation of our Constitutional Rights; like gun confiscation would be.

                    The Bundy Family response to events in Oregon is not justifiable and is none of their business. The Bundy Family response in Nevada is not justifiable because their actions stem from their own criminal trespass upon Taxpayer Land without paying their rent for twenty years.

                    No one should side with these morons. :-)

                  • durangokidd,

                    And with all due respect Sir you still did not answer my question!! Get pissy all you want Sir you know where I live and will be happy to meet with you anytime.. But my point stands in resolve, what land is the government entitled to own??? We have talked of an on for 5 yrs dude answer the question..

                    NOMI- CATIYMF,
                    DPS

                  • durangokidd says:

                    DPS: Most government owned land is in the West. It is owned by the Federal Government. In America, We The People are the government, therefore in Principle, We The People own the land.

                    Other than the Louisiana Purchase (sold to the United States, ie American People). That land in the West was ceded to the United States after the War of 1848.

                    The States which arose out of that territory invariably received their State Charters from the USA after receiving their status as Territories of the United States; with the exception of the Republic of California.

                    UNLIKE the original 13 colonies, and the exception of Texas and California these Territories owned by the United States (on behalf of the American people) subjegated those new States to federal jurisdiction: including the excess land in them. It has remained that way ever since.

                    Should the Federal Government own that land on behalf of the People of the United States? Or should the people living in a particular State own and administer that land. Its a good question.

                    Remember that originally the land in these territories were own by and administered by, the Federal Government on behalf of ALL Americans in all States. Meaning that every original State may have some claim on those excess lands in the territories, and then the States as they emerged over time; chartered by the United States federal Government.

                    It is just as likely that the individual people of the United States as a group (from generation to generation) have some claim to the wealth of that land in the acquired territories and the wealth embedded in that land.

                    In either case the land is owned by the Federal Government on behalf of the American people. ALL of the American people, either through their State, or through their interest in common, if you follow the chain of title.

                    So should the people today, in any particular State own and administer these lands in question within their State as “State Land” belonging only to the residents of that particular State (forgetting for the moment that there are already specific State lands) ?

                    Again, good question. I have no doubt that if these lands in question were owned by the individual states, the vested interests in these states would divvy them up among themselves for a song: and the Uber Rich, Crony Capitalists would own or control or profit from them to the exclusion of the majority of the residents of a particular State.

                    That happens now with designated State Lands.

                    But to answer your question directly, I believe that the closer that political decisions are made to the People the more responsive the government; but I suspect that special interests would rule over the land, even as they do now. :-)

                  • Foxglove666 says:

                    And cue the chest thumping crazies, dk….I happen to agree with you. The Bundy clan have been engaging in their own version of welfare for years. They have been ripping you and I as taxpayers off for decades by not paying their grazing fees. You don’t see other folks doing the same thing as these asshats, they have been meeting their obligations.

                  • Foxglove666 says:

                    DK, from what I see you are 1 of about 3 people on this site with actual cognition. I applaud your analysis of the situation. Most of these yokes can’t get out of their own echo chamber nor think their way out of a paper bag. As for the Bundy family and their ilk, the tallest blade of grass is the first cut down. They want to die for their idiocy, let them. They are a shit stain on the whole Freedom movement -agent provocateurs…….

                • Wink says:

                  If i’m not mistaken the Federal Gooberment stole that land from the Indians. Oh how quickly we citizens forget. I’ll be 82 soon and I haven’t forgotten.

                  • durangokidd says:

                    That land was taken from the Mexicans as the result of the War of 1848. The Mexicans took it from the Indians. The USA expelled the Indians from Taxpayer land; as they should do Bundy. And why Muslims should not be allowed to immigrate.

                    The Indians crossed the Bering Strait Land Bridge according to their DNA, so the land did not belong to them either.

                    Prior to the Indians 12-14,000 years ago, the land belonged to GIANTS, to which their skeletons attest. Possession is 9/10 ‘s of the law. :-)

              • imperfecto says:

                Yeah, those assholes got drunk and dressed like Indians, and threw the tea from a privately owned vessel into the harbor! They DO NOT represent the liberty movement. I heard they tarred and feathered some of the kings agents as well! Long live George III!

              • Lone wolverine says:

                Durango k . Do you really believe everything the government run media tells you about this case? They are the worse liars . Do you believe the Waco story? if you do you are one of the media plants of disinformation. Isn’t it obvious these people have worked this land for generations. Why would they lose it over small fees? There is more to this.

                • durangokidd says:

                  Wolverine: Don’t read much LSM. No I don’t believe the Waco story, but each event must be evaluated based upon the facts of each situation.

                  I have many, many comments in the archives which describe the FACTS about the Bundy Ranch. Some readers of long standing here did not understand the legal ownership of “ranches” in the West for example; or the facts in the Bundy Ranch case.

                  I don’t think any reasonable man or woman can suggest that Rancher Bundy, failing to pay his lease fees (FOR TWENTY YEARS) should continue to have unfettered access to Taxpayer land.

                  With respect to Oregon I understand that all of the facts have not been released and are not yet available through any Media source.

                  The initial punishments that the Hammonds received sounds harsh. To resentence after serving the original sentence seems unconstitutional.

                  I have not read the trial transcripts and probably won’t. I did see where the prosecutors claimed poaching as well as arson. Whatever. The sentence was served. Neither am I aware of the terrain in question, but 127 acres seems like more than just a “back fire”. So there are many questions that need to be answered, like did the Hammonds receive a jury trial initially? Things like that.

                  Eventually it will all come out in the wash. However nothing that is currently known justifies a Bundy presence in Oregon. :-)

              • Lone wolverine says:

                Sounds just like what those fools at the Alamo did. Dying for what ? Taking over a church. Defying the legal government authority . In a hopeless cause that had no chance . Sacrificing their lives for land rights. When they would never live to enjoy them. How stupid can you get.

            • mywifeisaKlingon says:

              “Peaceful” resistance realllllly goes a long way with fed.gov There is something there somebody wants to sell, and its less expensive to get the corrupt bastards at BLM , FBI, etc to kill a few peasants than to buy the land from them.

              • john stiner says:

                Yes, the FEDS do like peaceful protests. Remember in the 2014 Bundy stand-off they put the “First Amendment Zone” by the porta potties?

                That showed they really give a shit about free speech.

          • Richard Head says:

            Peaceful non peaceful, what them gov’t coc*suckers are doin to them sounds sadly immoral to me. I hope and pray God’s will be with them.

          • Kmart Shopper says:

            “The frontal assault is only for Mediocre Commanders.”
            General MacArthur

            “The Guerrilla must move among the people as a fish swims in the sea”.
            Mao Zedong

          • envythedead says:

            Right or wrong, the regime is going to push till somebody decides enough is enough. Any one can say what they want, but the regime is going to push till this happens. It is what cultural marxists do. They are shit stirrers plain and simple, and things like this are very useful to them. So those guys might be considered hasty and reckless, but what difference does it make really? It is now, or later, under some pretense or action. Maybe there are agent provocateurs involved, but does that change or lessen the administrative tyranny and wonton corruption of the federal government and state actors involved? Does it negate the idea of liberty? Of freedoms? Of self determination? Sure it plays into the hands of the sonoafabitches. But their agenda isn’t a secret any longer. And that’s the thing. We got the makings of another Waco here. A trigger happy federal armed badged thugocracy itching to root out “domestic terrorists”. What do you suppose in light of how corrupt and far off the reservation lawless the fed thugs have become, with all the revelations from Fast & Furious to treasonous mandarins selling out our republic for their pieces of silver, to the threatened disarmament diktat emanating from the regime leadership, what will be the “optics” of a violent gun battle between a hated regime and a fed up public? The time of the reign of the Clintons and their universal hatred of militia’s is long past. Things have changed dramatically since those two statists where in power. People aint so innocent and ignorant of the administrative tyranny and the police state which our government passes for. Legitimacy is truly at stake here. The mandate of heaven is rearing its head.
            A moral government would take all means to defuse the situation, or leave these fellows to sit it out till they decided to stand down, at the very least make a genuine attempt to listen to the grievances of the people holding that federal facility regardless of the veracity of their reasons, they are Americans after all, people who live in this country first and foremost, it is their country no matter how you slice it, none of it “belongs” to the feds, this is our land, not the property of an exclusive club of privileged bureaucrats. It most likely will not go that way. This is a mexican standoff with a short fuse. These guys have a history together, the militia members and the fed thugs. This goes back to the Bundy Ranch, maybe even further. You can bet there is some fed actors who want payback for having been humiliated by armed civilians who refused to comply or back down. In fact this is Bundy Ranch Reloaded. There is no backing down for either side is what I suspect. How can there be in light of the blood thirst and violence of past fed actions? Ruby Ridge, Waco, Fast & Furious, and who knows what false flag operations they have committed to that involved the misery and deaths of American’s in order to foist a narrative upon the unwitting? Those guys are as far from peaceful resolution as one can get. To them they are a hammer and the civilian population looks like a nail.

            So yall go hide in your BOLs and wait like sheep for the slaughter..

            • Braveheart1776 says:

              Envythedead, I owe you a big apology. I just finished reading your post #3496768. That was a damn good post and I agree with everything in it. I think it’s beside the point now whether this is the wrong battle. The point is that it looks like it’ll be bloodshed unless some cooler heads prevail. Sometimes I post without thinking very clearly. I feel the same way as you and everyone else here about all of the federal BS. I’ve always said that nothing the feds do has any legitimate basis whatsoever. They’ve always considered themselves above the law and believe they can do whatever they want, yet think they can preach to us about anything and everything. They don’t have a leg to stand on as far as I’m concerned. And I know good and well the feds have been looking for an opportunity for revenge on Bundy and now they have it at hand. I do fear for those men and wish them the best. So once again, my sincere apologies. Take care.

              • Braveheart1776 says:

                To everyone, what are the odds against this being a false-flag? How do we know this a REAL militia in that fed building and not some nutcases spoiling for a fight with the feds? Is it possible the Bundys could have been hoodwinked into joining a FALSE militia? Sounds like a real nice setup for getting back at the Bundys. this smells even worse now than before.

                • Braveheart1776,

                  How can we be sure you are the real Braveheart? Really bud there is no way to tell who is who now day’s.. At best all we can do is try and have a little faith.. I myself gave up on terms like, False Flag, Training exercise, The check is in the mail and trust me. Because it’s all bullshit bud.. Follow your heart but listen to your gut instinct..

                  NOMI- CATIYMF,
                  DPS

          • Anonymous says:

            Good thing a black teenager didn’t “break and enter,” or people like would unload an entire magazine into him.

        • Anonymous says:

          The Bundy Bunch deserve what they are going to get. They are full on screwballs, akin to David Koresh.I feel zero empathy for their family’s plight since that was brought on entirely by their actions and decisions alone.
          Martyrs they are not, cowards? To be sure, but as political martyrs they don’t need any more publicity at all. There are far better situations and people to key in on then the nutty Bundy Bunch who are as slimy as Harry Reid and the Clintons.

          • Anonymous says:

            So in short, you think they deserve the same as the poor souls that were murdered in waco.. If u believe waco was a cult thing, you are so deluded, the government had a few days before the residents in waco became owners of the land the house they built was going to be legally theirs.. Research it yourself, I pray that history is not repeated

          • Braveheart1776 says:

            Anon, where do you get off comparing the Bundys to Harry Reid? Reid is one of the main instigators in the fed campaign against the Bundys. While Reid and the Clintons are slimy, the Bundys are NOT. There’s a world of difference here. While the Bundys may have picked the wrong battle, they DON’T deserve whatever is coming. You sound like a federal sympathizer.

          • Lone wolverine says:

            How do you know what their actions and dicisions were ? What the government media told you? Whos the screwball ?

        • Mike in VA says:

          Eppe and all

          Here is the background information to what is going on in this stand off.
          Secondly the government illegally claims they own land that constitutionally the states have rights too.

          http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/01/03/full-story-on-whats-going-on-in-oregon-militia-take-over-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge-in-protest-to-hammond-family-persecution/

          I hope the link works for all.

          • Mike in VA says:

            I decided to give a little of my opinion to all of this. It is my understanding that Mr. Payne was a hot head in the original Bundy ranch stand off. He is a member of the Montana militia and claimed to be a former ranger. Upon investigation it was found that he was never a ranger and suspected that he was a government plant. The plant part has never been proven.
            The ranchers in Oregon are for sure being railroaded into losing there ranch. Natural Gas reserves gold and silver have been supposedly found on there property.
            I don’t agree with what the Bundy’s or Mr. Payne have done at this time. It looks bad and will be used by the media to try to further banning gun rights and possibly militia. We all know a fight is coming but we must pick our battles and times carefully if possible.
            I know that certain Militia’s have told the government that if this ends badly then there will be retaliation. Could this be the beginning. Possibly.
            It may be good or bad. You all have to form your own opinion of all this. I will keep you posted of any information I find out. Good luck in 2016. Between this and the stock market things have started off with a bang.

          • Mike in VA says:

            My original comment prior to me giving an opinion is in moderation. It has all the background info on this going back to 2001.

        • Lone wolverine says:

          Who says what the growing community sentiment is . The government media? One sign? These locals are out numbered and fed up with communist land confiscation . But what chance do they have.? Next they’ll call the bundys child molesters . And the idiots will believe them.

      • smokey says:

        Taking over a federal building while armed is going to get these guys sent to a federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison. Not a smart tactic on the part of these folks.

        Someone gets sent to jail for lighting his neighbor’s property on fire, and they think it’s federal tyranny? Boo hoo, you pick your battles carefully and this was a very, very, stupid choice, both in cause and location.

        Think about it, they’re out in the middle of Harney County, with no witnesses except the feds and the media. These idiots are not playing with a full deck.

        All it’s going to take is for one moron to let off a round, and it’s over. I’m not saying they deserve to be shot or anything, but if you wanted to get shot by the feds, this is about as good a way to do it as any. Stupid is as stupid does.

        • Acid Etch says:

          You’re wrong. If people wont stand up when the going is easy, then you surely wont when the fedpigs make for full-blown tyranny.

          • Richard Head says:

            acid

            amen you gob’t robot, truth is…..we/you/I are next.

            BTW acid GFYS!! :)

          • slingshot says:

            Update at bottom of article.

            The Fed Calvary is on its way.

          • Braveheart1776 says:

            acid, it’s more of a question of which battle you’re choosing. You have to pick your battles very, very carefully. Everyone here knows I’ll never condone any federal actions against anyone, but I feel the Bundy’s actions will backfire on all of us. I don’t think the Bundys thought this thing all the way through. the only thing occupying an unused building will do is get good people killed all for nothing. I have to agree with Sixpack that the Hammonds should not be reporting to go back to prison. Now if Bundy and company were to set up camp at the Hammonds ranch to protect them, that would make a helluva lot more sense than what they’re doing now and really send a mess age to the feds. That action I could support wholeheartedly.

          • mywifeisaKlingon says:

            Right on, Acid.

          • Mike in VA says:

            Acid

            While you are right people must start standing up this will hurt what you are wanting. It is not well thought out. It makes it look like the Bundys have an ax to grind. It is done at a time that our idiot president is going to issue executive orders against guns. It looks bad on militia’s and other organizations trying to fight all this. Most Americans will now look on these people as being redneck nuts and may even help Obama with gun control. It will also hurt the membership of these organizations. It in my opinion is not the right time and a very ill conceived plan. We have to be smarter about things than this.

        • Braveheart1776 says:

          Smokey, I also agree this action is counterproductive and unless the Bundys and Company withdraw peacefully, there will be bloodshed. Yes, you need to pick your battles much more carefully. I can hear the feds jumping for joy.

          • sixpack says:

            Yes Brave, they’ve been itching for payback since 2014…for them, THIS IS IT. They get 2 Bundys at once.

          • Richard Head says:

            F**k you “BRAVE”

            come soon it’ll be you Mr. “Brave”heart

            • Braveheart1776 says:

              Richard Head, I’ll try to be civil to you. Do you really believe occupying an empty federal building will do the Hammonds family any good? The Bundys, while they seem to mean well, have picked the wrong battle. What do you think would happen if they were to go to the Hammonds ranch to protect the family and prevent the father and son from going back to prison? That action would make more sense to me and I would support it.

              • Richard Head says:

                Brave

                My bad with the F you’s, Was good and drunk, pissed, and going on days of sleep depravation. That being said….

                What would happen if no one did anything?? I’ll tell you what….exactly nothing! At least they are standing together for a cause, which is more than any of “US” have seemed to be able to do. Plant a seed and it will grow. In the battle between the civilized man and the savage always support the civilized man, and imo the gov’t is the savage these days.

                • Braveheart1776 says:

                  Richard, it’s OK. I don’t want to fight with anyone on this site. I’m opposed to the feds as much as everyone here, but I’m not sure that the Bundys chose the right battle.

                • Mike in VA says:

                  Richard I understand your opinion. The problem is that the Hammond’s have refused help. When you stand in this situation it looks bad and hurts the cause. I know the time is coming. This may force it.
                  I just wish they had been smarter in there planning. It could really backfire for all of us. Just not smart.

            • Mike in VA says:

              The Hammond’s have refused aid offered to them by Oathkeepers and I am sure others. That is why they are not surrounded by people trying to help them on there ranch. Taking over the park service building will bring attention to the matter. My question is how does it look to others? Does it help or hurt things regarding guns, melitia’s, we the people, ect?

        • john stiner says:

          I think they want to provoke a law enforcement officer into something.

          When Bundy was tazered in Nevada in 2014 it was the rallying call for the militia men. It was on video and it made the Bundy’s the victims of the FEDS.

          Unless they can provoke a FED into doing something stupid, then their tactic will fail.

          If a FED shoots someone then it will rain militia on Oregon.

          • sixpack says:

            There are a few here already.

            • It’s not necessary to be in Oregon, as there are plenty of these fed SOBs in your own area of operation. If the feds do use violence and unreasonable force (a la Waco) in this admittedly bad situation, Patriots should learn and use 4th generation warfare tactics in their own area, not in Oregon. It’s not important WHERE they pay the price, only that their Waco tactics costs them dearly, when and where they do not expect it. But let them fire the first shot. And let them know that there will be no more free Wacos.

        • Samuel says:

          Armed insurrection regardless of the specifics is “illegal”. Laws are nothing more than one unit of men agreeing to subjugate another unit of men to their will. Damn the laws and damn the men Wahl attempt to rule over others.

          You make a great point about the stupidity of the location that they chose. I have seen nothing about any supply chain that was set up to ensure they are supplied to last a week let a lone a year.The feds can simply starve them out. No need to fire one bullet and make martyrs out of them.

        • Anon 1970 says:

          Smokey, you’ve been smoking too much of the governments b.s. And are now in lock step.

          Get a clue.

      • Seen2013 says:

        Bad location:
        1). The locals don’t support them.
        2). The Bundy’s have already been associated to the Militia and Liberty movements, and Brandon Smith already discussed attempts to link them as Russian Astroturf/Insurgency.
        3). Unlike Nevada, this is actually occurring inside a Federal Wildlife Building

        The public relations are too readily slanted against them, so this is probably not going to end peacefully.
        Wrong battle, wrong location.

        • durangokidd says:

          Wrong battle. Wrong location. No underlying Constitutional support for these actions by Bundy (again).

          Armed Americans, armed militia, is a very important Principle that should be upheld by US Citizens, and their deployment should not be made for personal aggrandizement.

          It paints real Patriots who would defend the US Constitution and Bill of Rights with their life against a tyrannical government with a broad brush; and a bad one at that. When Americans take up arms against their government, they must have the moral and legal high ground.

          Someone describe and defend to me the Constitutional Liberties that are the basis of Bundy’s actions in Oregon; if you can. :-)

          • Curtis says:

            Ef it Durango. While I also believe this is the wrong place and wrong time, I am still trying to figure out your code word for “No underlying Constitutional support.”

            What planet have you been living before you graced us with your presence?

            We have YEARS of constitutional abuse. For all intents and purposes, the constitution is a dead piece of paper good for nothing but the feds wiping their arse on it.

            But let’s get more specific in the case of these ranchers throughout the west… Art. 1, Sec. 8: Cl. 17. Go read it. Then go look up equal footing. Once the territories became STATES, the feds lost all claim to any land within those States. In fact, except for those delegated powers over these several States of the Union, the feds have NO OTHER POWER within each State. WTF is a BLM? Oh! That’s right! A fed agency to manage… what? Federal land! But wait! Except that as outlined in Art. 1, Sec. 8: Cl. 17, there can be NO federal land!

            Were does the feds get the power to own at the least 50 percent of the west? And, did you know by that spurious and unconstitutional claim, if you live within any of those federal territories, the feds claim to exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District? Grasp that?

            I’ll spell it out for you:

            “To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings…”

            How is it even possible that the Hammond’s controlled fire, which accidentally got out of hand, burned 140 acres of fed land? Did it burn down a Fort? Magazine? Arsenal? Dock-yard? Post Office? Or any reasonable land accommodating these buildings?

            And, by what right do the feds have to claim they may charge grazing fees… on fed land? By what right does the fed have to even manage, what ought to be, State land?

            If you hate the constitution so much durango, why not just say so?

            What is the right of the people when the government repeatedly, and intentionally, violates the constitution and states rights, durango?

            The history of the federal government has become a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States.

            Get it? Now go STFU.

            • @Curtis…

              I am not here to argue with the points you have made and I don’t know the specifics of what is happening in Oregon.

              I do want to say that as far the Bundy case goes, if you read the Constitution of that state, it specifically cedes all control of “Federal land” to the federal government and agrees that the state is subservient to the federal government.

              Therefore, if a state specifically gives control of this land to another, the only way to change the control of the BLM land is to change the state constitution. That has been tried before, but so far it has failed.

              Sometimes there is more to it than appears to our eyes.

            • durangokidd says:

              Curtis: Read my post to DPS and understand the chain of title to those lands and it should answer your questions regarding your interpretation of the US Constitution with respect to these lands. :-)

          • Enemy of the State says:

            IMO the Feds dont have any “Moral Ground” either

            so what a fuckin quandary

            the building is just a symbol ,, they arnt “taking over” the dam building

            and I do think the Hammonds have an argument from that shit ass court system playing double jeopardy on them, what kind of kangaroo court is that anyways ,, and yes this court system can and has started shit like this

            the Feds have a responsibility to calm this the F down , they have no moral High Ground either

            If the Feds light it off , it will be a huge mistake on their part

      • Acid Etch says:

        New Amerikkka now: it’s cool to have a chimpout and burn down Baltimore, but if you’re white and want the constitution enforced, the gobbermint is gonna Ruby Ridge you.

        All I hear from you boomers is excuse after excuse detailing why you disagree with the protesters’ extremist actions.

        As if people have no right to express outrage over a domestic terrorist conviction for starting a brush fire as a ruse to confiscate land that the government wants because the senator’s kids are on the boards of companies that have a fiduciary purpose for the land. So you tell me who’s a terrorist. Who’s really armed and dangerous.

        The truth is that you old bastards are 100% big bird yellow pussy licking butt kissing boot shining cowards and you know it. Shove your Molan Labe t shirts up your ass.

        Silence is complicance.

        • sixpack says:

          It’s absolutely true that the govt on Baltimore and Ferguson just stood back and watched while thee blacks burned their own cities down. THEY could pull out the race card. This time, there is no race card to protect them.

          This country is backwards and upside down.

          They give warmongers nobel peace prizes, and woman of the year awards to an old man in a dress and heels.

          Russia is looking better all the time…

        • slingshot says:

          Acid Etch

          Flame Away, Brother.

          Burn this Bitch to the Ground. Kick the tires and light the fires and get this bird in the air.

          What cha gonna do When they come for you?
          Whip it! Whip it Good.
          Cause I hear it calling in the air of night, Oh Lord.
          Who can it be Now?
          It’s the Tax Man.
          Or Lovely Rita Meter maid.
          But will you still need me, Will you still feed me.

          When I’m Sixty Four. Ooh.
          Smile AE

          • Richard Head says:

            sling

            you won’t do sh*t

            • slingshot says:

              Richard Head.

              You could be correct on that statement. Why should I bother to help others to prep. Why should they get the benefit of my many years of trial and error. Like some of the others here we have the choice of doing nothing.
              We don’t have to give a shit cause we not going to live that much longer but I’m betting many here have 40 years or more to go in life.
              The more I think about it. I’m not going to do shit.
              Unless I Really, Really, Really have to.

          • Crosby says:

            Tin soldiers and Nixon’s coming, we’re finally on our own

          • SmokinOkie says:

            Hey there slingshot! Great post. I remember the tunes, But I forgot… was it 45 rmp or .45 caliber? :)
            .
            .
            .
            Seriously though, there seems to be a lot of misdirection going on concerning this situation in Oregon. Is this really an act of patriots standing for the Constitution? Were the Hammonds in the right for starting the fires in ’01 and ’06? If not, haven’t they already been punished enough? Are the Bundys helping the situation, or just unwanted interlopers?
            Will the feds stand down and let the media coverage quickly fade? Or is this gonna be an intentionally provoked stand off to paint all patriots as dangerous wackos? We know the media will gladly proclaim whatever propaganda the PTB want them to. The truth is so hard to find these days.
            We know we face encroaching tyranny in many aspects of life, but WHO is the real enemy? And how do you get people to pay attention long enough to take a side? (hopefully the side of right)
            Another tactic is to enslave us by increments. That’s been happening for ages. Or, to simply wear us down by a series of non-stop attacks from every direction. At some point, most people will throw their hands up and quit from sheer exhaustion. The PTB will certainly use force when they need to, but they’d probably rather win by attrition. There’s more spoils to collect that way.
            .
            .
            Keep stacking!

            • eppe says:

              Smokin, does make one wonder?

              Eyes open, no fear…

            • SmokinOkie,

              Greetings neighbor, I hope you had a great Christmas and a wonderful New Year. I see your point as you and I both know the land grab in both of our states is on going. I hope all is well with your family and where this all ends up nobody knows. I figure just stand your ground and let nobody f–k with your family.. Got your back here in Texas!!

              NOMI,
              DPS

        • Makemyday says:

          Acid:

          After reading most posts here I have to agree with your assessment of the situation.

        • evvythedead says:

          wow acid you are getting way better at this posting shit

      • Acid Etch says:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZCjHpsuTGk

        If you have not yet done so, go watch every video at the political islam channel and buy books from Dr. Bill Warner.

      • I am not that far away both in distance and in empathy with these people. I need only one answer and that is what does the militia want? If it is the release of the Hammonds I am all in. If they are just making a statement of fuck you to the federal government I am suspicious that this is a false flag allowing King Obama a third term under Martial Law.

        BigB

        • sixpack says:

          The halfrican ain’t gonna get a third term – IT’S HILLARY’S TURN! She’ll kill whomever else she has to to get there. Obama is in HER way.

          I say they should just execute the both of them and be done with it.

      • Diana says:

        You all need to know why the government is harassing this family. Here is the BLM plan for the Mulhuer Wild life refuge http://www.blm.gov/or/districts/vale/plans/files/20100316_MalheurQueen_FONSI.pdf

          • Braveheart1776 says:

            Sixpack, if I was Hammonds, no way would I report to go back to prison after already been in there. I would fight to the death if necessary to avoid going back. Now if the Bundys and militia had gone to the Hammonds’ ranch to protect them instead of occupying an empty federal building, that would make a lot more sense and send an even stronger message to the feds. That would be the RIGHT battle to choose and I would support it.

            • Belle says:

              They cannot make their stand at the Hammonds. The Hammond’s entire family have been threatened by the feds thru their attorney and thru the sheriff to not speak or support the Bundy’s. The locals won’t stand up either or their ranheland permits will not be renewed among other “punishments.” There is so much more to the history and this story in general. http://pienpolitics.com/?
              p=23556 The Hammonds will likely lose their ranch if sent back to prison which blm and malheur refuge are perfectly fine with considering it’s prime location.

              • Curtis says:

                So they were threatened. When the fed comes for you and threatens to throw you in jail if you don’t give them a blow job, will you get on your knees?

                IF… the Hammond’s had just stuck with the moral cause of this and refused to go back to jail… then NONE of this would have lost its moral legitimacy. And maybe, just maybe, more of the locals would have been more prone to stick by the Hammond’s.

                But oh no. The Hammond’s gave in to threats.

            • csaaphill says:

              problem with that is the Hammond’s are pussying out and giving themselves up.
              So these Militia people are making this more about all our rights and Oppressive Govt rather than just stand with those who don’t want’ them.
              I fully support what they are doing. Sorry doesn’t make any difference to em when and where I’m glad they are.
              Too many seem to want a perfect little fight where Govt goes full rouge and comes confiscating guns, but I don’t believe that’s going to happen.
              this is also about agenda 21 that’s been going on down there. I really wish people would do more research on these kid of things instead of splitting hairs and turn it into a higher road type of thing.

          • Philosopher says:

            Diana, that link is excellent. Interesting that they say a placer mining operation would not have a significant impact (near a wildlife sanctuary) and thus no EIS (environmental impact statement) is necessary.

        • BINGO. It is always something like this.

        • Silverado says:

          Well…this IS surprising…

          Eldorado Gold (EGO) is Chinese owned. From Stockhouse dot com:

          Eldorado Gold Corp is a low-cost gold producer with mining, development & exploration operations in Turkey, China, Greece, Romania & Brazil. It operates five gold mines: Kisladag & Efemcukuru in Turkey, & Jinfeng, Tanjianshan & White Mountain in China.

          • Silverado says:

            Now we need to see if Eldorado Gold is related to Eldorado Resources. I wonder though I’ve been around mining stocks long enough to know or suspect such things aren’t always the way they seem, especially when the subject of gold, silver and precious metals comes up. It’s kind of an interesting coincidence (if you believe in those) all the same. Nothing here would surprise me now…

        • smokey says:

          No, that is not a plan for the Malheur Refuge, that is an environmental statement for a mine to be permitted within the Refuge. You can find the management plan for the Refuge on the same site. The mine is a small portion of the Refuge.

          The government went after these folks after they set fires on public land, not before.

          They’re being put in jail for arson, their land is not being confiscated.

          If the government wants their land, they have to buy it at market value. Tell us why they wouldn’t have already confiscated it before the mining decision was signed, now the market value is higher due to mineral potential. They get paid that value whether the Hammonds’ sell voluntarily or not.

          • Philosopher says:

            Smokey: I think it is beyond crazy for the Federales to allow a placer mine to be put on the refuge without it being necessary for the owner of the mining operation to perform a costly EIS too!

            Silverado, I read the PDF that Diana posted and wondered who owned the mining operation. Thanks for the quick research! Good job!

          • john w. says:

            A few years ago the Feds set a fire in New Mexico as part of their half assed efforts at land management. The fire got out of control and almost burned down Sandia Labs in addition to thousands of acres of forest. Just like the screw up in Colorado with the mine water no one on the Fed team ever was held accountable. Just like every shooting by a cop is always justifiable.

      • Spook89 says:

        Remember Ruby Ridge, and Waco…both times!

      • Patriot says:

        We think you are wrong. The feds want the rest of the country to see exactly what they are doing when they open fire on these militia to send a message to the rest of the country. The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) recently bought up and stockpiled huge amounts of weapons and ammunition. It has been suggested that this is going to be Obama’s way of grasping control of the country by grabbing land and when the owners resist (and they will) he will declare martial law. That may explain his smug attitude and thumbing his nose at us while he imports hundreds of thousands of muslims against our will.

      • Braveheart1776 says:

        It’s almost 6:00 PM in my area and we have no new article yet. Mac, is everything OK?

      • Burt Gummer says:

        — BREAKING NEWS!!! —

        535 so called Patriots have occupied a federal building in Washington DC. Their intentions are unclear…

    2. Dirk Williams says:

      There’s a reason Oth Keepers aren’t there!

    3. stan says:

      Sorry to little to late. Too many Americans depend on government to eat and they will not bight the hand that feeds them…

    4. swinging richard says:

      I can’t shake the feeling that I am missing a key piece of information that makes sense out of this.

      • Nobama says:

        You’re not alone. This seems foolish and makes no sense to me. It tarnishes the “well regulated militia” part of the 2ndA. Feds may use this incident as incentive to re-write or remove the 2ndA. Maybe they are staging it for exactly that.

        • Anonymous says:

          The Feds are going to rewrite the 2nd anyway, in fact they already have in practice.

          But you’re right, America needs to go down whimpering instead of fighting.

          After all, we can still play chest beating commandos on the keyboard after we have no other rights or guns left.

          • KY Mom says:

            The Feds are already rewriting the second amendment in textbooks…

            AP history textbook rewrites the Second Amendment.
            Here’s the Constitution’s wording:
            “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

            Here’s the AP history textbook’s reworking of the text:
            “The people have a right to keep and bear arms in a state militia”

            The revision interprets the Second Amendment in a way that concludes that the ONLY way it’s constitutional to “keep and bear arms” is for a person to be part of a “state militia.”
            -Godfather Politics

            A fact about the Second Amendment most Americans have never heard
            The Second Amendment: “A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.”

            “Well-regulated” circa 1787 meant, simply, kept in good order; well-trained and equipped.
            -Eric Peters Auto

          • john w. says:

            After the Boston house to house armed home invasions by the cops the powers that be know they can do whatever they want. That is just the way it is. Very few people will ever violently resist the govt. A thing called normalcy bias gets in the way.

        • Braveheart1776 says:

          Nobama, I agree that the Bundy’s have picked the wrong battle, but the 2A will still stand regardless of how this turns out.

        • Nobama,

          I’m sorry but I disagree with your statement sir.. This is exactly what a “Well Regulated Militia” is for. If you look at the unconstitutional land grab happen by the BLM and the double sentence being imposed on the 2 ranchers you should at least realize what is happening in nothing more then them saying do as your told or else.. How can a man be sentenced twice for a crime that he did in fact already serve his sentence as well as pay the fines imposed?? The term is called double jeopardy sir and it is in fact unconstitutional. So I ask Sir when should the free will of the people be protected by the overreach of a government??

          NOMI,
          DPS

          • Nobama says:

            DPS, the deeper I read into the history of the BLM and it’s illegal strong-arm tactics against landowners, the more I agree with you and with the efforts of the patriots. May liberty prevail against the tyrannical thugs.

          • Curtis says:

            Wow. Cognitive dissonance. On the one hand, you argue in favor of the feds, and on the other, you argue against the feds.

            • Nobama says:

              Curtis you’re wrong, I never argue in favor of the feds, I do argue against doing stupid things against them. The Bundy kids are throwing rocks at a hornets nest.

              • Lone wolverine says:

                As did George Washington. Or the men that fired the shot heard around the world . After taking over the armory. Was that a foolish act against a hornets nest? They had no legal right to deny the legal government access to that building. They were malitia . Traitors against the legal government soldiers just doing their jobs. And murderers . And it wasn’t the right time to resist. Or the right reason. They should of let the government do what it wants . Then take them to court latter. That’s the legal sensible way . The peacefull non violent way. Gods way?

                • Lone wolverine,

                  Right is right and a man has to follow his heart to make sure the well being of his children.. Do I agree with whats going on, I’m not sure but I can say this.. If after serving a sentence imposed on my Father and after all fines are paid. They want to come back and impose a longer sentence on my Dad and send him up for another few years, then yes we are going to have a problem!!
                  NOMI,
                  DPS

      • Reader says:

        The Gov’t is WRONG. The Militia is RIGHT. Here are the all the facts you’re missing to prove it: https://www.superstation95.com/index.php/world/723

        • sixpack says:

          I’m not getting anything at that link, not even a page error 404 message. Maybe it’s blocked.

        • ChuckInBama says:

          No problem with the link on my end; a LOT of information that explains the WHOLE story.

        • durangokidd says:

          Great link that describes the odyssey and heavy hand of the government that the Hammonds have endured.

          No where does it explain why Bundy should be involved; especially when the Hammonds do not want them sticking their nose into Hammond family business.

          Hopefully the Rutherford Institute or some other justice group will come to the aid of the Hammonds. :-)

      • Heartless says:

        A couple of things that seem too coincidental to be believed. This is happening simultaneously with the President’s usurping the Constitution as regards executive ordering of firearms regulations. Another item, is simple military logistics. The supply lines to those occupying the Federal building are virtually non-existent. It’s winter, cold and in need of fuel and other cold weather necessities. Bringing all the guns they may have isn’t enough anyway. A military act doomed to failure from the git-go.

        • smokey says:

          You’ll have to ask the folks inside the building at the Refuge why they chose this weekend, it was pretty stupid of them.

          That, and the location, miles away from casual viewers and out of media access. Whatever message they wanted to send is not going to be sent.

          • durangokidd says:

            “… it was pretty stupid of them.” Everything about the Bundy’s reveal a family of morons.

            I am just waiting for Bud Bundy to make an appearance for these clowns. :-)

        • Heartless,

          This is such a classic military strategic. Let’s just remember the building in fact was empty due to the holidays. Or was it??? Harry Houdini was the master of magic and when ask how he did it he said??? “Misdirection” Just let your mind think about that for a minute Sir. We all knew that this was coming up there so how would you use that to your advantage?

          NOMI,
          DPS

        • Mountain Trekker says:

          Heartless you know what is coincidental, and this has happened to me more than once. I will make a comment and it will move down the column and there will be a comment such as yours that was already written. The story of my life a dollar short and comment late. Anyway I agree with what you said. Trekker Out. Skirmishes, Skirmishes!

      • Mountain Trekker says:

        I’ve never been accused of being to smart, but I just can’t seem to wrap my head around this, it seems we’re going to have a shootout between the Feds and the Militia in Oregon and in Washington DC the HNIC is going to take Executive Action on Guns on the same day. And here we are, like rabid dogs attacking each other. We’ve had numerous shootings in the past and everyone wants to holler False Flag, and I haven’t heard this one time on this situation, or maybe this would be called a Black Swan event. Never heard much about this just 2 days ago. Trekker Out. Scratching My Head!

    5. Plan twice, prep once says:

      This is going to end in a massacre like Wounded Knee.

      Obama always said he was very good at killing people.

      • Makemyday says:

        If it starts that way, it will not end like Wounded Knee. We bloggers on SHTF have been asking for someone to stand tall; someone to take the fight to the feds. Is an agency that is stealing all the land/resources in the west not worth fighting against?

        What the hell is it going to take to make so called patriots to make a stand? This is not a “Bundy Ranch Fight”; this is a fight for all of America. Surely in your neck of the woods some alphabet agency of the feral govt. has shut down you, your family, your neighbors ability to make a decent living.

        The feds kill anyone at that building and I can assure you they are opening a can of worms they will not be able to contain.

        And once again, the Hammonds have been put on notice by your friendly communist government “if they are complicit in helping any protesters” they will be put in prisons far from home and prisons that have notorious histories. If you were the Hammonds…..good, law abiding, salt of the earth people….with that threat hanging over their heads, what would you choose to do?

        The charges of setting a fire to burn deer carcasses is the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard. Ever tried burning an animal carcass? How many days would it take. The Hammonds owned herds of cattle; I am sure their dinner table did not need poached deer on it. Read the trial data at the Bundy Ranch Blog and see for yourself how this poor family has been railroaded.

        Will you be next? You might pray for the Bundy family to help rescue your ass.

        • Dirk Williams says:

          Do you even know the facts of this case?. Or you just looking for a fight. I’m in Southern Oregon, been following this case closely for at least a year now. No doubt a lot stinks about this.

          Had the Hammonds seeked assistance, that would be one thing, they didn’t. Why is it in concerned citizens best interest to have a group of Rambo wanna be’s forcing the issue.

          What pisses me of is this. These fucktards marching around like a bunch of fucking peacocks, in camo, packing guns and posing for the press. They represent the fringe, not the body of this movement.

          I believe their are 100s of thousands, if not millions of righteous citizens who are fed up with this Govt, bull crap. These few men and women present outside of Burns Or, tarnish/ damage those working hard to find meaningful solutions.

          why is it, these noble causes seem to always get hijacked by a bunch of far left knuckleheads.

          DIRK WILLIAMS

          • Makemyday says:

            Dirk:

            The video that John Stiner put up explains why your Oathkeepers wouldn’t take up the battle.

            He says “Oathkeepers say if the Hammonds have agreed to go back to jail, it is their decision, and so be it”.

            Is that the stance you Oathkeepers took? If so, you are just as bad as the feds. Hammonds have been threatened with prisons that are harsh and a long way from home if they participated or communicated in any way with the people who were coming to their aid.

            Those threats should have been enough to cause Oathkeepers to say “enough”. What does it take to get you to obey the oath you took? I am sure you breathed another sigh of relief knowing you had a lame excuse to stand down. Shameful!

            • Curtis says:

              Makemyday… This is not my condoning of the feds, or their usurpation of Art. 1, Sec. 8: Cl. 17. Appearances are everything. Motives and moral narratives are everything. Sympathy of the people are everything… especially from the locals. Whatever sympathy of the locals they had, it is now gone. Squandered in rash thinking, as in… if these local people do not want our help, then we’ll force it on them and go out on our own. They have hi-jacked the Hammond cause. They have used the Hammond cause as an excuse to take over the fed compound. My question is… why did they wait for the Hammond cause? They could have taken over any fed compound in anywhere USA at any time before the Hammond’s in defense of Art. 1, Sec. 8: Cl. 17. You going to tell me that these guys needed the Hammond’s as an excuse?

              Again, these guys could have taken over any fed compound in the west… and NOT ride on the coat-tails of the non-participating Hammond’s.

            • Dirk Williams says:

              Not an OAth Keeper, however, I agree with their assessment of “This” situation. As I do agree with Sisipy Street regulars, western rifle shooters and a host of other organizations in print to keep concerned citizens informed.

              This isAmerica, these militia folks can exercise their right as they see fit. I dont agree, and am amused by these clowns marching around hut, hut, hut, hut, hut. One post here pointed out Oregon is a democratic state. That’s true, IF The I-5 corridor from Eugene to Portland are the state.

              Every other county south, west and east have strong republican ties. And are very conservative in nature. Most enjoy a reasonable local federal civilian relationship. I’m told this is the case in Burns Oregon, aswell.

              It well be interesting to learn exactly how many locals are ” occupying” the refuge at the end of the day. My Guess is zero.

              Lastly these fringe militia groups ” Tarnish” other militia Solid groups who are standing tall, and at the point of the Speer.

              I pray that calmer heads prevail, in this situation.

              Dirk

              • Lone wolverine says:

                Other solid malitia groups that are standing tall. Standing around doing what? Theirs no stoping this criminal government .look at all the other things their doing. Voting ? We all voted for this guy twice? Everything else is rigged but not the elections . They would never do that. Talk about gullible. Are we all completely stupid . Or just dumbed down and brainwashed?

            • Anon 1970 says:

              Well said. All the big talk and now, the Hammonds are willing to go and we are going to respect that choice. WTF?

              I’m incredulous of what I’m reading. It boggles the mind.

          • WAYNE says:

            ALL OF YOU LEFT WINGERS AND RIGHT WINGERS, THE GOVERNMENT IS DOING TO AMERICANS, LIKE THEY DID THE INDIANS. TELL ME WHAT THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS WITH MORE LAND??????????? THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A BUSINESS, IT IS ONLY SUPPOSED TO PROTECT THE COUNTRY AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. WELL, GUESS WHAT THEY HAVE BECOME A GREED BUNCH OF COMMUNIST SOCIALIST, BEFORE LONG THE GOVERNMENT WILL BE CONTROLLING ALL OF AMERICA, BECAUSE THEY OWN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY ALREADY OWN ALL OUR HOMES AND LAND. IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE ME QUIT PAYING PROPERTY TAXES (RENT) AND SEE HOW LONG YOU OWN YOUR PROPERTY!!!!!!!!!!

        • john stiner says:

          The only part of this entire Oregon saga that i have a problem with is this:

          The Hammonds have reportedly rejected the Bundy’s help and are going to report to jail on Monday.

          If that is the case, then what the hell are they fighting for?

          • Kulafarmer says:

            Some of the people involved are feds, you can bet on it, and it is a provocation, attempt at the least,
            Pick your battles
            Stay away from crowds
            Words to live by, and dont make you a coward

            • Lone wolverine says:

              You guys sound like Feds. We’re did you all come from all of a sudden. You sure change your tune . When a fight starts. What it’s not the perfect situation . When will it be good enough for us . When they call in the Chinese to help ? Then it’s too late. The freemen in Montana backed them down. I bet most Feds can’t wait to see the people rise against this criminal in the White House

              • Kulafarmer says:

                Hey, go ahead, knock yerself out sonny, run on up there to Oregon with yer AR and join in,,,well be watching,

                • Plan twice, prep once says:

                  The Feds are not afraid of people with AR-15’s, they have helicopter gunships that can make hamburger out of them. They are afraid of the unarmed people who they will mow down and video ends up on YouTube. Of that they are terrified.

                  Then Obama becomes a murderer.

                  Gandhi stepped into a bloody revolution, that by the way was started by Jihadists, and ended it by embarrassing those that choose death.

                  Expect the tire area to be blockaded to keep out especially the unarmed!

              • Braveheart1776 says:

                Lone wolverine, WHOA THERE! Who the hell are you calling FEDS here? You’re barking up the WRONG tree. We’re all against federal actions as much as you, but this war has to be fought sensibly in order for us to win. The only FEDS who ever come here are TROLLS.

                • Plan twice, prep once says:

                  Handles are pretty easy to forge on a site like this. Buyer beware.

                  Never the less, everyone take a breath, don’t say anything that you might wish to take back another day! Don’t post anything in anger. Expect some sarcasm, that is often hard to read in print. Sarcasm works great when spoken, not so good on forums, in fact label it /sarcasm you twits….. Yes that was sarcastic.

                  This thing in Oregon will take on a life of its own before it’s over, keep you heads. Yes, a simple post any of us make could affect its outcome. The war is on! Of course I was only speaking sarcastically there.

          • Richard Head says:

            You can better well bet the feds got to them and told them if they support the “militia” / PROTESTORS, their lil senstence will go much worse for them

            • Braveheart1776 says:

              RH, that’s the first SESNIBLE post you’ve made on this thread and it’s possible. That may be why the Hammonds rejected Bundy’s help.

              • Makemyday says:

                Brave:

                That is exactly why the Hammonds rejected Bundys’ help. The “Ptb” in charge of their incarceration threatened the Hammonds with prisons that would be harsher and a long way from home if they had contact with the Bundys.

                The Hammonds also would NOT want anyone put in harms way by supporting their cause.

                You need to look at the video that John Stiner has put up and tell yourself that patriot doesn’t love America. Then ask yourself, after viewing it, if just maybe you have taken the wrong position on this issue.

                Seem I have seen a lot of posts from you hoping patriots would step up to the plate, yet when they do…..???

                Pay close attention on the video to what the patriot says the Oathkeepers excuse is for not supporting the militia.

            • Plan twice, prep once says:

              Plus 50 points…..

              And yes I noticed a few months ago that Alex Jones site softened its political coverage, around the same time he lightened up on medical claims of some of his supplements. Oops. There were rumors he was being investigated, and then those stories vanished.

              Extortion is SOP in the Obama Regime.

            • Melissa says:

              By the time most of you think “the time is right” the feds will have picked off any potential resistance, one at a time.

        • Lissgsxr says:

          I totally agree

        • Anonymous says:

          MMD,
          If someone is accused of poaching don’t they look in freezers for evidence, check tags and the like? You make a valid point that they had plenty of resources and had no need to poach. I would think wild animals would take care of a carcass pretty quickly.

      • Philosopher says:

        Yes. I remember the POTUS making that statement. Sickening.

      • areyouready? says:

        This is going to end in a massacre like Wounded Knee.

        Obama always said he was very good at killing people
        ************************************
        Not as good as Hillary!!:-)

    6. unknow says:

      I believe in what their doing but I think its to early, I think we should wait till they(GOV) start something big like they did in Boston. I think there will be shooting and the media will not be able to report any of it. the militia is right but at the wrong time.

    7. anonymouse says:

      Why do anything…just ignore them. Let them have their protest and it will fade in time. Giving then a confrontation is just asking for issues. Make them into martyrs would be the worse case scenerio for the govt.

    8. 1vet says:

      “If you’re the only one out there it’s not time.”

      That’s what we’re up against. We’re in that awkward time before the revolt is in the streets. They will kill these boys soon…

      • Philosopher says:

        I agree 1vet. These country boys are gonna be set up for a fall.

      • H Muller says:

        I agree, 1vet. It’s like John Brown and his homeboys in the 1850’s, looking to force the issue, violate the law, make themselves martyrs. Who’s a hero and who’s just a fool in all this? Time will tell. My gut tells me these extremist militia folks will be used to discredit the wider liberty movement, and that’s sad.

    9. mallardhen says:

      sounds like a plan to me.

    10. breathial says:

      I was asked to join them, and I declined. Why? Because I see no point in being far away from my family picking a fight. When SHTF I don’t want to be sitting in a jail cell (or dead), unable to protect my family.

      There will be plenty to do in my own neighborhood, plenty of SOBs to take care of, within my own AO. No need to go searching for trouble; we’ll have more than enough than go looking for it.

    11. Andrews says:

      80% of the people that live in that County are employed by the federal Gov, you should’ve added that in along with your sign saying go home.

    12. Foxglove666 says:

      The Bundy family and their supporters are no better than a bunch of welfare bitches sucking off a government tit. They have and continue to rip off you and me as American taxpayers by refusing to pay for grazing on publicly owned lands. The Hammond family in Oregon was convicted for arson TO COVER UP THEIR ILLEGAL POACHING ACTIVITIES. The whole burning to kill invasive plant species defense was soundly DISPROVEN during the trial. The Bundy welfare asshats are just trying to stir a shit storm. They believe their own echo chamber. Even the Hammond family has distanced themselves from the Bundy brothers. Again, it’s a case of pick your battles wisely. You have a bunch of wild eyed idiots bringing WAY too much attention to real Patriots such as ourselves. We will get tarnished with the brush of these morons. So much for being a gray man…….

      • Anonymous says:

        And you know all this to be total fact how? You really think the judicial system is totally legit?

      • 2isone says:

        That arson to cover up deer poaching was dragged out of a mentally challenged boy 11 years after the fact. That’s the elderly couples’ grandson whom the rotten lawyer sought out to “testify”… a charge they deny. The elder Hammond is 75 years old. 5 years in jail is pretty much a death sentence. When are we going to realize that these beaurocratic big shots need to stop harassing decent people who have ranches land for decades- since the 60s in fact, before the “nature reserve” managed to conning to get many other ranchers to give up their land. I watched Ammon Bundy’s YouTube made on Jan. 1st explaining all this and I was impressed. Not incendiary at ALL.

        • apache54 says:

          2isone,
          good reporting, these articles sure bring out the government agents ( trolls) these tow ranchers are NOT the ONLY ones fighting the feds over lots of things to do with land. there are MANY where i live there is one family that has been in court battle for 16 years over water rights! and the list goes on and on! IF you really did own your own land than NOBODY could ever take it from you for ANY reason, you might owe debt, BUT you could never ever loose your land, time to re-take this once great country and get rid of the current scum suckers who have been slowly boiling us the frogs!!! for years!!!

          • sixpack says:

            It is odd that nobody spends the effort in the media to report on all of the other cases like this. They don’t care unless it comes to armed confrontations with so-called “authorities”. You’re right apache, there are WAY MORE people fighting govt injustice than this.

            If the people actually knew about how wide spread this really is on this coast,, they might see things differently.

          • Anonymous says:

            Water is or soon will be the new gold.

      • breathial says:

        Couldn’t make it through the first sentence with lying your @$$ off. Typical statist b!tch…

    13. Pip-Boy says:

      Where is this NWR on Google Earth?

    14. Philosopher says:

      This is not going to end well. These boys have been set up to be slaughtered and then this will be an excuse for Obama to bring in more gun control.

      This is a time for cooler heads to prevail.

      War is hell. Civil war is an even worse form of hell.

        • Philosopher says:

          JS: Was that comment supposed to be understood by anyone other than yourself?

          • Cont divide says:

            Phil. The pit of hell is a ominous macho sounding phrase meant to make a person sound tough. Get with the program. Why is everyone being so turdish today? I prefer the pseudo intellectual phrase molon labe. It’s classic and means a person or group that is defiant. Of course there is the tried and true “mutherfucker” after a threat. It’s real street sounding and combined with the words: body bag, corpse, lead poisoning, one bullet at a time, or blow your head off, troll, fed, United Nations, blue helmet, Obama, Osama, Muslim, Islam, immigrant, or person of color it sounds really tough and mean. Lighten up everybody. We will be in this together.

      • john stiner says:

        Makes me think of John Brown in the lead up to the Civil War. He did a similar thing.

        John Brown and about 20 others captured the armory at Harpers Ferry with the expectation that all the slaves in the region would stand up and fight their oppressors.

        He got his ass killed instead. (by the right honorable Robert E. Lee of Virginia)

        But, he then became a folk hero and a martyr.

        • slingshot says:

          John Brown should have called Super Chicken. :0)

        • H Muller says:

          Hi john stiner. I just posted a similar message before reading yours. Great minds?!
          Yes, this Bundy crew seems determined to go down as the John Browns of our day. If there’s cell phone reception at that building they occupied, they can at least broadcast their fatal last stand, the ultimate selfie.
          But I think it’s a stupid move that will play right into the hands of Obama and his gun grabbing NWO agenda.

        • Braveheart1776 says:

          John Stiner, John Brown was a POS who killed innocent people during that affair and he paid for it with his own life AND RIGHTFULLY SO I WILL ADD!

      • burkas are sexy says:

        And without these “extreme actions” Obama would never attempt to disarm Americans. OK.

    15. slingshot says:

      I believe this is going to be put down and the direction it takes after that is a wild card.

      I would much rather see a financial collapse where the banks confiscate our savings to save themselves. Our government to take the retirements. Plunge the country into deep unemployment. Why? Because it gets to everyone.
      If you have prepared there will be time to sort things out or how they will play out. I would much rather have the Give Me Dats fight first to draw down the government supplies. See how they react. Who is going to fight and who goes to the camps. Maybe more of the Normal Bias people will get on the stick and seeing for sure what can happen to them. They will start looking for the preppers to join up. They will eventually come for all of us and our guns.

      As for going it alone.

      Nothing in my life has been given to me. I had to work for it then, as I have had to now. And will fight for it.

      I’m not asking nobody for nothing…….

    16. Philosopher says:

      Oregon is a full-blown communist state. The Governor of Oregon, Kate Brown, is a freaking bisexual. You cannot make this stuff up.

      IMHO that makes Oregon nothing but a state run by communists. And I cannot stand commies.

      Buckle up. The ride is gonna get ruff.

    17. Frank Thoughts says:

      Something tells me there is no greater pleasure for the Prez than to watch angry white men get killed by white cops. With the very real threat from Islamic militants across the West, would it not make better sense to direct the firepower and rage in that direction? Or would that actually take real courage and real balls, going toe-to-toe with combat- experienced Islamic militants?

      If these militia guys had any brains they would direct their fire power to real threats and not continue to play out some fantasy about a Constitution cooked up for an 18th century world.

      Hey, maybe they want to get thrown in a Super-Max with a bunch of guys who look like Mr T, latino gang-bangers and a clutch of neo-nazi white supremacists (the guys they will have to hook up with and be bitch to if they want to live and survive the black and latino gangs).

    18. slingshot says:

      I would much rather have the News Media talking about the Give Me Dats Rioting than the Patriots and Preppers.

      The President is going to eat this up like a wild hog finding an open 50 lb. bag of sweet corn.

    19. Stogyman says:

      Please reference the following article.

      Something about this whole deal just doesnt smell right. I know I dont have all the information yet to put all this together, but this article to me is a very good start. In short, the Hammonds are being made an example of.

      http://www.thefencepost.com/news/18847695-113/two-members-of-oregons-hammond-family-to-serve

    20. 123456 says:

      It had to happen sooner or later.
      No one said it would be a cake walk.

      I’m proud of them!

    21. It’s time to send George Soros to his best friend SATAN!

    22. Philosopher says:

      This finally went live on both CNN and FOX.

    23. Thor 1 says:

      I believe they are being convicted on double jeopardy. Now as ranchers are they allowed to shoot animals on their own land? Did someone else shoot animals on their land without consent? The fire on to someone else’s property,which I believe was federal property, is nothing more than accidental. That said, it is a mistake to takeover a federal building,defending the ranchers on their property is one thing, but not taking over a building. Unless the government is outflanked, this will end badly and it is sad because of the lawlessness of our government trying to confiscate their property as an outcome and another Waco/Ruby ridge.

    24. Jim in Va. says:

      Just one of many scenarios to keep us off balance. with terrorists,gun control,the economy and what is boiling in the middle east there is more than enough to keep everyone occupied. I’m expecting riots in the cities before the elections,collapse of the dollar and expanding conflict in the middle east. Take care of yourselves before wandering into someone else’s fight in a faraway place.

      • Anonymous says:

        As far as scenarios I guarantee they will be endless in 2016. The lulls will be few and far between. Had a lot of rain in my area that should have been snow. I have a pump but going to waterproof basement for extra precaution.

    25. Seen2013 says:

      While I normally just read this, I am compelled to think of some similarities:

      http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2016/01/breaking-news-obama-orders-hammond-ranch-destroyed-2767990.html

      Take the money and resource information and compare/contrast to the situations in Arizona and Nevada, Dave Hodges discussed; there does seem to be parallels. It is those parallels that centers on me sharing the link for others to look it; otherwise, I mainly only read that site.

    26. Makemyday says:

      Thanks Andrews for RESTATING that fact. Seems it was easier to ignore that very important fact. I had posted it on the last subject.

      When your livelihood depends on the government it would behoove you to post the sign Mac put up in his subject, now wouldn’t it?

    27. Dan Morgan says:

      Unless the goal is martyrdom, this was a dumb fight to pick.
      This area is so isolated, the feds can use any means they chose, no matter how brutal, and then tell any story they want.
      There is no advantage to be gained here.

    28. Anonymous says:

      Hope they have rock solid C&C and vetting of volunteers, as one trigger happy hothead (or govt plant) eager to engage will discredit the whole point of it (returning fed lands to local control) and give .gov excuse to ratchet up response and get media coverage further off protesters originally intended message.

      • john stiner says:

        Remember in the 2014 stand-off nobody pulled a gun. Everybody was holstered or pointed at the ground.

        Except for the one guy on the bridge that was in a sniper ready position obviously pointing a rifle at someone.

        It only takes one hothead to cause the explosion.

    29. Godsoldier says:

      No cops will be involved this is a federal bld once shots are fired then national guard can be used state of emergency cus it will spread like wild fire look at branch dividians used a tank on them and that was not even fed property so the fed bld is whats gonna be the thing to watch not the farm bullies dont like it when you whip their ass on their own front lawn

    30. Asshat says:

      Anyone in the patriot movement ever think tptb wants to make them out to be domestic terrorists. Times have changed you just can’t be free grazing on federal land to sell the beef for profit later. It’s like stealing from the gov and they don’t like it. Would you want some guys cattle eating the grass off your land for profit and giving you nothing. Why would anyone put their life on the line for free grazers. If the bundys want to fight for this it’s their battle. This is what I mean about picking and choosing YOUR battles. this is not the 1800s when gov agencies didn’t have the ability to enforce this. It’s getting dangerous out there.

    31. Mosin says:

      Whole thing could be staged by the elite….. like it or not, It is very possible.

    32. USMC1982 says:

      I say pick your battles carefully. Not many Americans are aware of the issues these people have with the BLM. Thus, they will lose the puplic opinion battle, especially with the left wing media. The government will take full advantage of this and make these people look like right wing militant idiots…

      There is a small chance this could ignite something but I seriously doubt it.

    33. Godsoldier says:

      We realy wont know whats going on or what the truth of the whole incident out come is will be cus forst off and formost the gov is already doing damage control the perimeter around that fed bld at least within sight will be closed off and secured tighter than a nuns cunt so what they want us to know is all we will get and you can forget the guys in bld involved getting cellular or any thing else out

    34. john stiner says:

      The Bundy’s appear to have taken a page from the Black Panthers playbook.

      A core group of Black Panthers will go to a location to protest and cause problems. They recruit locals to their cause and get them pumped up. Then the locals do something stupid and get arrested. This gets media attention and makes the police look like bad guys. The core group of Black Panthers does just enough to provoke an incident, but not enough for themselves to go to jail. Then they leave town for the next protest.

      If this turns into some arrests, I am willing to bet it will be a local, not the Bundys.

    35. Ron Ahrens says:

      Whether you like it or not, this will start the gun grab, and you will be involved soon enough. Time will come soon when we will see who the fascist boot licking cowards are, and who the freedom and liberty loving patriots are.

      • envythedead says:

        Yes Ron this board is separating into just that as I sit here and read. sad .. i am starting to see the feds separate out into the open. and the feds minions.. all the boards on the net are simply loaded with feds

    36. Teptoe says:

      No. It simply means when volunteer help arrives, law enforcement will be surrounded.

    37. slingshot says:

      On the ramp up.

      Did not get the UN Gun control through Senate.

      Second play is with the Bundy’s Standoff.

      President with his EO’s.

      Is there a terrorist in the woodpile?

    38. It is obvious that the militia is not welcome there and should go home. The biggest problem I see with this right now is the government is looking for any and all reasons they can get to control the people. This is one more feather in their cap. They will be killing these people and selling it to the masses as “See how radical these militias are. We need to outlaw them and their guns.” It puts the rest of of us a very bad light. At this rate, Obama will be banning all militia activity by EO before the month is out.

    39. TheGuy says:

      They’re gonna get Waco’ed. Or Dorner’ed. Or whatever you wanna call it.

      As you correctly point out, the best case scenario for them at this point is prison rape. That’s BEST case. Yeah… with that as their best case? They’re not going to stand down…

      (Now if brutality in the prison system was actually something we were concerned about… well then in this kind of scenario they might actually stand down. But as it stands… eh I digress).

      Media is busy cooking up evidence that they’re actually child molesters or that they shot their neighbors or some other such shit to make them appear more odious than they already do. So that when they get shot? People will care… but really not all that much.

    40. silverstate says:

      lets see here….Vietnam(opium/helicopter sales/wall street salvation), Iraq(oil), Nicaragua(cocaine), Panama(cocaine), Libya(oil/Isis Inc. IPO/keep the gold standard dead), Afghanistan(opium/AL Q Inc. IPO),other STANs(opium warehousing/processing), Turkey(Opium warehousing/distribution/ISIL Inc. IPO) Israel (new Fort Knox), Western United States(oil/uranium/lots o gold/silver/wall street salvation viz China)…..if you think USA Inc is a goody two shoes think again…….we the people can only absorb so MUCH…….evil endorsements…it’ over…..”prepare for battle”

    41. Warchild Dammit! says:

      This is weird in that locals do not seem to want them,or the jailed ranchers.I do know and am saddened that another insane Waco style response will bring another insane Oklahoma bombing kind of response,guess it was going to happen and in our lifetimes,doesn’t means it sucks any less.

    42. Anonymous says:

      Government will encircle them, unless they encircle the government that do encircle them. That ripple of circles can go far and wide. The government have a fragile dependence on many things for their power. The people will have to be independent of those things for their own defense from siege by government and, to undermine government’s ability to attack them.

    43. Kulafarmer says:

      Heres a good piece on the sitch

      //theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/01/03/full-story-on-whats-going-on-in-oregon-militia-take-over-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge-in-protest-to-hammond-family-persecution/#more-110497

      Add appropriate prefix

      • Rellik says:

        My parents retired to Prineville about 155 miles from Burns. My Dad did volunteer work for the BLM, repairing campsites and gates all around that general area. He had nothing good to say about the management types in the BLM. The URL you refer to is how the BLM and FWS operate in Oregon. It is not your land, and they can and will literally steal it from you if they want. Liberals infect BLM and FWS management( indeed most all Federal agencies upper management). They don’t like ranchers and anybody else they can’t control or coerce.

    44. slingshot says:

      People are so stupid that if you built a bridge in the desert, someone would still fish off of it.

    45. Noob1989 says:

      As far as I can see, both the Feds and the Hammond’s are in the wrong. The Bundy’s militia is the most wrong. We should be defending innocent Americans against our illigitimate, facsist government. If this escolates it will competely discredit the patriot movement, and the puppet masters will finally take away the arms, the only thing we have.
      The day and the situation is coming. This is not it. Be patient and don’t do exactly what they want you to do. You must realize the art of war and what is at stake. I do not support this action because I plan to win this war. Who is with me?

    46. Thor 1 says:

      We all need to practice and train for what is to come. Who will be next?

    47. Anonymous says:

      All resistance will fail as long as the resistors attack each other over each others’ cause for resistance.

    48. USMC1982 says:

      The government had better not hurt any of these men, it could get real ugly if they do.

    49. After reading all of these comments, all I can say is if you really think this is the right answer then get off your dead ass and go there and fight beside them. This is the wrong fight at the wrong time. They are doing nothing but putting our causes in jeopardy at this point and giving the left more ammo for their fight against guns.

      • envythedead says:

        The gov stage killings one after the other so what difference does it make. It is obvious, they are coming for them..why does the when matter? these guys in oregon know this and have decided to become causalities in this war but NOT the first ones.. Read my list above.. the gov has been slaughtering us for years.. wtf is wrong with you people?

        • Envy,
          I have made it to 64 years old by not being stupid. I started serving this country in 1971 at the age of 19 and by the time I was 20, I was servicing nuclear warheads in the Air Force. In 1978 I was assigned to the Tehran Air Port, providing F-14 Tomcats to the Shaw of Iran. I left 2 weeks prior to the hostage crises in 1979. When I got out of the military, I became a police officer and also worked as a security officer for the next 10 years. I then went back to work for the Department of Defense as a DOD contractor assigned to the Department of the Navy. I spent the next 23 years doing what ever was needed, where ever they needed me. I retired in 2011. If I only learned one thing during those times, it was to know your enemy and to pick your fights accordingly. Like I said, if you think this is the right time, go for it.

    50. Thor 1 says:

      We all need to watch the following to see what his plans are.

      http://deadline.com/2016/01/obama-town-hall-gun-control-cnn-1201675282/

      Note, I am not a CNN fan.

    51. nyspatriot111 says:

      My only thinking is that if these guys right or wrong are wiped out by the Fed then what do we do?

      Right or wrong do we sit here and wait or is it time for action?

      • envythedead says:

        no we make excuses why it is not the right time and braveheart will talk about when they come for him bertha will do the talking and blah blah blah but they better not mess around anymore or we will surely get pissed and THEN by golly… on and on blah blah ..read my list .. the gov is slaughtering us wholesale and everyone still says it is not time.. obama is going to take the weapons and no one will say a thing because we will still be allowed muzzle loaders and if you cant kill a deer with a mloader then you shouldn’t be in the field ya stupid pussy. but then one day some asshole gov agent will kill a bunch of people at the mall with a muzzle loader and we will be down to spears.. but if you cant kill a deer with a spear then fuck you are ndot a man and should stay on the porch and let the big dog handle this hunting and blah blah .. I need a new planet to live on. This one is full of cowards and pussies that name their shotguns and think it is cute.. you are idiots.

    52. Thor 1 says:

      Here is some interesting laws in different states. Check for yours.

      http://statelaws.findlaw.com/criminal-laws/gun-control.html

      My question is: isn’t a restriction of ownership or type of weapon an infringement? Taxing ammo or firearms an infringement? Licensing an infringement? Answer to all of the above is absolutely!!! Which makes every law on the books illegal in accordance with the second amendment. Interesting how the Feds say their law is supreme except if they know what it says and then says states have the right to make that decision even though the States agreed to the Constitution and signed it making it legally binding. Obama can stick that up his constitutional lawyer degree a$$.

    53. Hoping this opens America’s eyes. I pray that these guys get heard without bloodsh ed. If the government attacks them, we know our answer. The govt has gone too far!

    54. truth says:

      The Hammond Ranch Is All about the MONEY !

      William Mount
      ​https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3uahMpyMZrFqwLod5Xc_vA

    55. areyouready? says:

      When the Nazis came for the communists,
      I remained silent;
      I was not a communist.

      When they locked up the social democrats,
      I remained silent;
      I was not a social democrat.

      When they came for the trade unionists,
      I did not speak out;
      I was not a trade unionist.

      When they came for the Jews,
      I remained silent;
      I wasn’t a Jew.

      When they came for me,
      there was no one left to speak out.

    56. areyouready? says:

      “””Despite serving jail time for arson three years ago a judge has ruled their initial sentences were insufficient.”””

      Is that like any citizen paying a traffic citation and a few weeks later the courts sending out an officer to collect more because a ‘judge’ ruled it was insufficient??
      Think about this for a while.

      • Anon 1970 says:

        This is EXACTLY like that. It has been very, very disheartening to read all the comments contrary.
        I imagine many people who have had the goobermint put them in a choke hold felt utterly helpless while all those who swore they’d never let it happen on their watch sit back and play a reel in their minds that ‘this isn’t the right fight’.

        I don’t use these words often but, for fuck sake. You gotta be kidding me.

    57. Infidel-2 says:

      I can not help but smell rotten fish with this, just isn’t right, gut feeling. Time and where I believe is a Government move. Oh well, as said time will tell.

    58. areyouready? says:

      I’ve read about this today using many sites. This from one:

      For more on what looks like a VERY sketchy case, a source more familiar with the situation referred me to an article in The Tri-State Livestock News. Part of that article reads:

      Why the Hammonds?

      “The story is like an onion, you just keep peeling back the layers,” Maupin said.

      In an effort to stave off what they feared was a pending Clinton/Babbitt monument designation in 2000, a group of ranchers on the scenic Steens Mountain worked with Oregon Representative Greg Walden, a Republican, to draft and enact the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Act that would prevent such a deed. The ranchers agreed to work with special interest “environmental” groups like the aggressive Oregon Natural Desert Association and others to protect the higher-than 10,000-foot peak.

      A number of ranchers at the top of the mountain traded their BLM permits and private property for land on the valley floor, allowing Congress to create a 170,000 acre wilderness in 2000, with almost 100,000 acres being “cow-free.”

      “The last holdouts on that cow-free wilderness are the Hammonds,” said Maupin. Though some still have BLM grazing permits, the Hammonds are the last private landowners in the area.

      “It’s become more and more obvious over the years that the BLM and the wildlife refuge want that ranch. It would tie in with what they have,” said Rusty Inglis, an area rancher and retired U.S. Forest Service employee.

    59. sadabouta says:

      This really seems like a setup, whether intentional or not thr net result is likely the same, which is the demonization of AR15 toting paramilitary constutionalist types waving yellow snake flags.(Gadsen) Consider the environment, and how it seems like the locals need to be protected from these types. It is likely the freedoms you have enjoyed will slip into oblivion, because they were not percieved to be important.

    60. As I read through the post of all the new followers of Macs page I see a lot of people that have not followed or even been involved with the BLM’s attempts to seize the lands of the people.. Before you judge what and who is involved in this matter I would hope you would at least take the time and read up on what lands our government is allowed to own under the constitution. Myself I have been involved and in close contact with some of the actions taken in my state which is Texas. And I stand with our Governor on this matter.. Come and Take it..

      Not One More Inch…. CATIYMF,
      DPS

      • USMC1982 says:

        DPS-

        They were doing a controlled burn on their land that got out of hand. It went over onto BLM land about 100 acres of a 6000 acres. Initially the BLM admitted that if anything it increased the value of the land by burning the underbrush. This is something that happens naturally with lightning all the time.

        They were sentenced initially to 1 year and 1/2 year. They served their time, then an activist judge SIX YEARS LATER ruled that they did not serve enough time.!

        I think they picked this fight intentionally.

        But, you wont hear this story in the social media.

        • USMC1982 ,

          Yes Sir I understand this burn got loose and that’s all it was.. My entire point to this whole story is simply this. How much land within our borders is the government allowed to own? You Sir should already have the answer to my question.. You took a oath to defend our constitutional rights against enemies foreign and domestic. I Just have to ask this , Once a man has served his time for a bullshit charge, should he have to serve another term due to a unjust jury?? Because if that’s the case the we really do need the 2nd amendment right more then ever.. Lets not forget why our forefathers took a stank.

          NOMI,
          DPS

          • USMC1982 says:

            They are not authorized to own any land except in Washington D.C. We both know what is going on here, the activist judge that came in after the fact and ruled that not enough time was served should be the one in jail.

      • john stiner says:

        There has been so much FEDERAL over reach in everything I wonder why we even have state governments anymore. They are just one more political entity with their hand in my pocket.

        I just paid my property taxes and was thinking about how many government entities I pay taxes to:

        1) City
        2) County
        3) School District
        4) Community College district
        5) Water district
        6) State
        7) Federal

        Then there are countless division within those governments that I pay sub taxes to.

        The list is endless.

    61. Rockmanr says:

      They have made alot of mistakes. They cant win in a shoot out with the Feds. the Feds have unlimited fire power They have pinned themselves to a fixed spot where they can be smashed easily. They have said they will shoot to kill which the Feds can use as an excuse not to take prisoners. The public is not ready for armed revolt they will not come to save them. True this is a sign of the times and had to start somewhere but they needed more planning and networking before this crap. They should be in the buckwheat with a support base instead of in a building surrounded by trigger happy Feds. I have talked to a Fed who was at Ruby Ridge and he laughs about it. BATF will be there looking for some kills This event will be used to intimidate would be patriots around the country. Train organize a support base and stash supplies for the long haul but getting massacred only gets you dead. They are dead already During the shoot out with the SLA they put a 458 Magnum round through every square foot of the house the SLA was in A game of battle ship played for real Tear gas and setting fire to the house finished up the play in one act

      • Lone wolverine says:

        Tell that to the guys at the Alamo? They knew they would probably die. For what ? A statement.

        • Lone wolverine,

          Really a statement is all you got from the brave men that died at the Alamo?? I’m just stunned by that 1 statement. I Wish you the best in your endeavours.
          Myself I will stand by the true meaning of ” Come And Take It ”

          DPS

    62. Anonymous says:

      Not one more inch. I like that.

      While this might not be the stand we need to take, I do appreciate those that do.

      • Anonymous,

        Not one more inch is something I decided to do in my life a few years back. Put simply I live my life by a set of rules that I myself choose. My rules are not up for debate and I will not compromise on the values I set before me.. Life is hard but we all have to have values..

        NOMI_CATIYMF,
        DPS

    63. Anyonmous says:

      Most of you people are too stupid to understand that the III% Militia douchebags have not taken over BLM land, they have occupied a Wildlife Refuge that has been there since Theodore Roosevelt established it in 1908.

      It’s a bird refuge! Do you think anyone in the United States of America is going to support the III% Militias demands that a bird refuge established in 1908 be turned over for logging, mining, and cattle ranching?

      It’s a bird refuge that they are occupying! Not BLM grazing land. They are stupid. Straight up 100% stupid.

    64. all-in says:

      This is just a thought but it said in the article above that the feds would encircle the federal building so other supporters that did show up would be to far away. So that would tell me if that was the case then the feds could possibly be in a cross fire situation with militia on both sides.

    65. Frank Thoughts says:

      Their biggest mistake is going to the use of force to express their opposition to the Federal Government. While the time may come, we are not there yet. If you jump too soon, you just hand the Feds the advantage and the moral high ground with the public.

      You should only intelligently and peacefully protest and make your case. Always take the high ground.

      Leave violence to the knee-grows, the criminals, the gang-bangers.

      As for prison, I would not want to be one of these guys thrown into the general prison population.

      Prison guard: “Hey, Jahdickwe, here’s your new cell buddy, Bob Whiteman. He thinks you are a food stamp eating eater and your momma doesn’t deserve welfare.”

    66. Bigbluedrew says:

      I have read post after post as to why armed resistance in this case is a bad idea. It makes me sad. So many here are not dealing with reality. So many talk about it “starting a gun grab”. I got news for you folks, TPTB don’t need a reason to grab the guns, they are going to try and do it no matter what does or doesn’t happen. Hell they are already doing it. The heat continues to rise gradually and the frog boils contentedly. I hear many of you say that unless they come for you or your family personally you will hunker down and do nothing. I am reminded of the line from Orwells Animal Farm, “you have never seen a dead donkey”. You don’t realize that by the time they do come for you it will be far to late to stop them. Folks the dye is cast here. We can unite and fight while there might be a chance of victory or we can sit back and watch the slow rot of our liberty utterly destroy a once great country. There are two options, civil war to fight for our liberty or complete tolitarianism. It is come to that. Finally can anyone tell me what the “Liberty Movement” actually does. From what I can see nothing besides bloviate and spout useless rhetoric. Maybe we will get lucky and have a TEOTWAWKI event that makes the federal leviathan irrelevant . I kind of hope so because I don’t think Americans have the sand to stand against the people destroying our nation. Sad when you find yourself hoping for a major catastrophe because your brethren lack the courage to unite and FIGHT for their liberty.

      • slingshot says:

        BIGBLUEDREW.

        I read the comments of those who say that we on this board are not going to do shit.

        Now you can go back in the archives and see where I stated that I tried to PICK SEVEN and get a team going.
        Even Long before that posting I was trying to get others to prepare and train to get some sort of cohesive fighting capability. You know what? Not ONE Fucking One would do anything. I don’t need a idiot to fire off a round and get us all killed for nothing.
        I have notice there are some who have just come on the board and now think they are the HOT SHITS of the board. Well a few of us have been trying to instruct people for a long time on preps and where the fuck have you been? LURKING? Where are the tens of thousands that read this site that we have prepared by the information freely given. I am sure there are at least a thousand out there close by.

        I am a Vet and I know about the Oath Keepers and the NRA
        etc. You do a great disservice by telling people they won’t do shit. You lose support that may be vital later on in the fight.

        • Bigbluedrew says:

          I also am a vet and I did not say people on this site would not act. I said they would act way to late to do any good. Any one with eyes can see what’s happening to the country. It isn’t gonna stop. They mean to control every aspect of our lives. As a collective group everyone seems to know this but nobody seems willing to act on it. Everyone seems to be waiting for the definitive this is it moment. What becomes us if that never happens. If it ant fear then WHAT is keeping folks that know what’s happening from acting?

          • slingshot says:

            Bigbluedrew.

            Not what I intended. I wanted to dovetail in on info. Not at you.

            There are three ways they want to bring a civil war.

            One by Racism.
            Or by Gun Control.
            Or Financial Collapse.

            The first two the government can put the blame easily on the people.

            But a financial collapse lays the problem at their feet. And it is a BIGGER problem as it touches everyone. They can not direct their resources at just one trouble spot because there is going to be hundreds of trouble spots. Obama my become the dictator.

            Obama has to get the guns before the big stuff hits.

        • Bigbluedrew,

          I like the way you think Sir, Just remember this, 3% is all it takes. No I’m not posting here all the time, no I don’t name my guns, no I’m not ready for any of what comes our way.. But my heart is ready for what comes my way because I would rather face it then have my children face it!!

          DPS

      • envythedead says:

        This board is full of cowards and feds Bigbluedrew, Believe me I know, I have been watching this site for years. ALL the survival sites are full of cowards and feds. SO what do you expect, it is never time to resist.. the feds are making sure of that. They talk first blood yet the slaughter of innocents has been in your face for years. How many children did the feds kill in ok city?

        Yall on this site are a bunch of excuse making pussies.

        • slingshot says:

          envythedead.

          Just go out and do it. Stop your complaining.

        • Braveheart1776 says:

          Envy, while there’s always some feds aka trolls, there’s no cowards here. If you’re so concerned, put your money where your big, stupid mouth is and go join the Bundy bunch.

          • “brave” heart is the biggest excuse-making pussy of all.

            Go on “brave” heart. Go on out to Oregon and stand up.

            Prove me wrong.

            • Braveheart1776 says:

              Vic, go look in the mirror. How do you live with yourself? You think I’M a pussy? Come to my area anytime you want and tell me that face-to-face. The only thing I have to prove to you is that if you fuck with me, you will pay a price for it. why don’t you go to Oregon yourself and join what could be a false-flag operation? It’s possible the Bundys may have been hoodwinked by a a bunch of nutcases itching for a fight to make REAL militia groups look bad.

      • Anon 1970 says:

        If we are having to break itdown, as you have so clearly, it seems pointless. I think the sickening feeling in the pit of my stomach is that we are having to explain how corrupt this is and how we must draw the line here and now. It’s obvious!

    67. Cellar Spider says:

      The liberal media keeps asking, “What do you want?, what do you want?, what do you want?”.

      When they get the answer, they are all befuddled. It’s not tv’s, it’s not cops dead, It’s not free stuff. It’s simply constutional rights…..and the media has absolutely no idea what that is.

      Keep going Oregon boys and girls. Frig the BLM!

    68. csaaphill says:

      Kind of funny when something happens that people have called for a long time and the Pussies all cry foul Fuck you pussies.
      these people are full on Patriots and deserve our support.

    69. mark says:

      HERE’S MORE TRUTH

      MOST OF THE RANCHES SIT ON TOP OF A HUGE WATER SYSTEM,AND NATURAL GAS DEPOSIT,URANIUM,AND
      MERCURY AND ARSENIC RESERVE.THERE IS TALK ABOUT A HUGE MINING OPERATION AND MONEY GOING TO CHINA SEE BELOW

      http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2016/01/breaking-news-obama-orders-hammond-ranch-destroyed-2767990.html

    70. Mr Smith says:

      “The Bundy’s occupation has come under attack by hundreds of Twitter users utilizing the hashtag #OregonUnderAttack.”

      Yes this is true but twitter is full of shit and people like me are starting to work out how they can present any picture they are paid to paint.

      When something like this is trending then how come when you “View top” that the tweets all come in real slow and not ten new tweets every few seconds like they once did ?

      Now if you post using the hashtag “#OregonUnderAttack” and then remote decktop to another PC thats is using another twitter account and a VPN connection so it gets a new ip-address then you will see that most of your tweets from your first account don’t show up in public.

      Twitter is manipulating tweets and if you tweet something bad about David Icke then because he pays Twitter money to sell his “The lizards are coming” books then your tweets soon get hidden from public view.

      DO NOT BE FOOLED BY TWITTER COOKING THE BOOKS

    71. Houston/Cypress/Katy/Shtf says:

      I believe that this incident at that ranch in Oregon will let everyone know for certain that if the feds decide to attack and kill everyone out there, then it means that foreign soldiers will be killing the American people in mass numbers between 2016-2017, that what the 4 star General said is indeed a fact. And that what he told V, will happen. Russia had complained recently that bio labs and military bases as in bio weapons warfare has been set up purposely to use against them in there region, literally next door to Russia, literally on their borders. Their whole thing stinks to high heaven and our future survival us not looking good.
      It appears that all my nightmares are literally coming through right run front of my phucking eyes.

      Aka,

      HCKS

    72. Ron Ahrens says:

      All members of the Oathkeepers organization of cowardly fascist boot licking fat ass chemically altered treasonous shit stains should NOT BE TRUSTED ANY LONGER. The Oathkeeperrs are nothing but a group of cowardly fat ass old drunken bums who love their fascist government and award ceremonies. After the collapse and civil war, the treasonous shit stains in the government run Oathkeepers organization will all be rounded for TREASON trials, right along with their fascist allies in the US Government of pure evil filthy vile scum like the world has never seen.

    73. ironworker says:

      Perhaps the Oregon Militia should arrest Judge Aiken?

      Dwight Hammond and Steve Hammond should go free. They served their time. Double jeopardy is unconstitutional.

      The original judge and jury decided that the mandatory 5-year sentence, (based on Federal guidelines) was excessive. Therefore, the original lighter sentence also stands as “Jury Nullification” of the Federal guidelines, in the Hammond case.

      I’m not an attorney, but I assume that Judge Aiken has the authority to set aside her decision.

      The politicians aren’t going to make this right, but the citizens can. The U.S. Constitution expressly provides for a Citizen Militia.

      Perhaps we should arrest Judge Aiken, and give her the opportunity to rescind her sentencing order. Just hold her until she signs a rescinding order, and then let her go free.

      Below is Judge Aiken’s full name, address, locations, photos, video, etc. – –

      Court Address:

      https://www.ord.uscourts.gov/index.php/court-info/judges/judge-aiken-sub/93-honorable-judge-ann-aiken

      The Judge:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Aiken

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcJA7AYGOcU

      Ann Louise Aiken (born December 29, 1951)

      Home Address:

      Ann Louise Aiken, 2510 Highland Drive, Eugene, Oregon 97403, USA

    74. imperfecto says:

      It is really seems that the Bundys and these other guys are severely lacking in the brains department. It is a bad location and the timing has handed or will hand the POTUS the ammunition it needs to vilify an entire segment of society. The great thing is you dont have to follow or assist these well meaning mentally deficient folks. However, their imperfect little standoff will affect you at some point.

      • Ron Ahrens says:

        That is what we wanted all along, so now all the lazy fat ass keyboard cowards will have to get off their fascist boot licking asses and start the revolt against this tyrannical psychopathic globalist controlled government. I love the brave patriots in Oregon for starting the revolt on our terms at our time

    75. Anonymous says:

      Bundy shouldn’t be applauded for anything. He’s stealing land from the Federal Government which is owned by all the people of the U.S. and not to be given away for free to corporate America to destroy. This is between the Hammonds, Hammonds’ attornies and the judge. He committed a crime and should serve his time. I pledge allegiance to Bundy.

    76. The Kangaroo says:

      Considering the stupidity involved, the government would certainly be justified in massive force; however, keeping everything low key and showing the idiots how insignificant they really are should suffice. Of course, playing loud music, preferably in Arabic, would certainly be more than justified. Within a week these cowards will be whining to be arrested so they can go home.

    77. slingshot says:

      The DOW is down 450 pts.

      Crash your fucker.

    78. “The White Man is a monster, and what it eats is land.” Chief Sitting Bull

      • grandee says:

        Funny you should put that out here.

        At 8am or so this morning the lead talking head on CNN was interviewing the “CNN Legal Consultant” and she asked him the question why no authorities were descending in mass, guns a blazing, etc to take these “WHITE MEN” out, like they would have if they had been ISIS or terrorists.

        She actually used the term “WHITE MEN” as if it were something horrible.

        I ’bout spewed my coffee.

    79. swinging richard says:

      What was destroyed in the original fire that lead to the arson trial?

    80. Arrest and jail these lawbreakers. If they fire, use overwhelming return fire and put them out of my misery.

      Criminals like these give responsible gun owners a bad name. They make us all look like redneck fools and they give the Communist-in-chief all the excuses he needs to steal our rights.

      • agreed.. all but 1 thing
        the commie dont need excuses for nothin’ his intent is against the 2nd ,, no matter if we dance or not , he has had his sites set upon destroying our 2nd article right years before he even came close to the presidency

        and he cant “steal” shit .. unless we allow it

        I for one do not recognize E.O’s as laws..and I also wont recognize any “law” against my Bill of Rights or Constitution

        so he can suck on that ..I aint givin up shit , and neither should you

    81. Anonymous says:

      Government would love for all the militia (all the people as a self-defense force) to rally to one place where the government can just shut the gate on them and declare them corralled. Government is everywhere but, so are the militia– if not bunched up at a standoff beer party in camos and comparing how much they paid for their rifle scopes. The battle lines can be drawn everywhere, not just at a hotspot– which can just as well be a government ruse to attract victims of theirs. Being everywhere puts the militia on equal if not superior terms versus the thinly-spread government that relies on people being sheep whom government and those who use it can then manipulate as their victims through fear (the definition of “terrorism”).

    82. Houston/Cypress/Katy/Shtf says:

      Ron Ahrens, i would have taught your words were a little harsh. Now i have to agree with you. The Oathkeepers turned tail and ran. You are 100% on the money, that if the American people dont stop this crap now, it will be too late. No 2016 Election is coming. I am wating to see if and when the Oregon national Guard fires on the Patriots..This will tell me what my, our faith is, as what will happen in my State of Texas over the next 24 months. Also, if they fire on the patriots, i can bet your ass, that they immediate step will involve the removal of Donal Trump as the front runner, meaning that hillary clinton will be sworn in, or the election cancelled and martial law declared. If they fire on them and get away with it, then they are going to attack Texas and try to take over the state. Thats why Jade Helm 15 equipment is surrounding our city. Isis jihadist camps next to the border. It’s all piecing together.

      HCKS.

    83. Houston/Cypress/Katy/Shtf says:

      envythedead. YOU BANNED FROM THIS SITE.

      DONT even think about posting on here. Go back to facebook and phuck off you agency ass clown troll. Since we are just a bunch of phucking kids, then go to a mature gay site or go suck your gay lovers cock, since you are nothing more than a potential rapist, pedofile or possible child molester, that needs to taken away from society like the cablist rapist, women and child trafficking assholes that you support in the current muslim administration.

      Aka,

      HCKS.

      Agency ass clown super moderator.

    84. Mountain Trekker says:

      Lot of tough guys on this site, I’m just not sure who’s on who’s side. Trekker Out. Beware Of Torries!

    85. Godsoldier says:

      2nd the right to bear arms. They have added rules regulationd and stipulations slowly deteriorating this right like must pay buy a tax stamp to own full auto then must have a license to carry then oh you can not import certain rounds then oh your mag hold too many rounds. Now no buying or selling unless you let us know. They are getting worse as we go our right are not to be like a contest where certain conditions may apply. Think about it and thats just referring to guns think of everything else they are slowly taking from us its not supposed to be like this

    86. Godsoldier says:

      If you have the money to pay your water bill and you choose to water your lawn or garden then you should be able to without repercussions like a fine if any thing they should pay you for not being able to provide enough water for your needs however you are not allowed to put in a well in town cus they want a monopoly control this is another example of its just not right any more

    87. Houston/Cypress/Katy/Shtf says:

      DurangoKidd. YOUR FRICKIN BANNED. Dont come unto this phucking website ever again, to challenge smart people. You are siding with tyrants. PHUCK OFF AND EAT SH…T. its people like you that should not be around children. Why, because you have do damn respect for the parents much less the kids.

      Aka,

      HCKS..

      Agency ass clown super moderator.

    88. The militia may hold for a little while but I believe in the end it will only be their own blood spilled. History is replete with stories that began this way and all ended up dead. This is an ego battle and the one with the biggest weapons will win. The us government has satellite weaponry, what do the military have…lol checkmate very soon I suspect.

    89. Amos Moses says:

      I have carefully read everything that I can about this event and considered every last one of the posts here. After much prayer and contemplation all that I can say is:

      “Watch our fur dem hogs!”

    90. Human says:

      bunch of rednecks with guns..in the middle of nowhere.

    91. Houston/Cypress/Katy/Shtf says:

      Fritz, YOUR BANNED FOR TAKING CRAP ABOUT PETE SANTELLI. Phuck you.

      For your information dumbass, the FBI is split. You have the white hats, and the black hats.. of different factions, that is working with the FBI white hats, the FBI white Hat Agency, does not answer to the administration in fact they arrested the chi-com Leland Yee,who was on CNN, calling for Gun control and he is ..a California state senator and Chinese communist..who was on TV with the president taking crap about gun control after the sandy hook false flag.. why the FBI white hats bust this senator on?.. the smuggling of rocket launchers, Ak’s by the thousands that are being brought in,and now we know for who, none other than isis and the Chinese.. soldiers..now these same assholes want to mass 180,000 jihadist fighters, their army to use against us.

      Fritz, Your ass is banned for your stupidity in taking crap about the FBI. They are not all in one, there is a split…what do you think is scaring crap out of Clinton and her rapist husband Billy. None other than Larry Nichols..who was in the kitchen with them and heard them taking about the only thing in our way now is state rights..

      Aka,

      HCKS..

    92. Anon says:

      There are two types of people in the world. People who want to be left alone, and people who won’t leave them alone (i.e., bullies/parasites).

    93. csaaphill says:

      Not sure just how stupid people really are on this. But to the honest ones who are just being manipulated by the mainstream media and the like. While there is some truth to the statement that oath keepers resigned to not go there was because the Hammond’s didn’t want it is true. But what people fail to realize this isn’t just about them this is about NWO, agenda 21, Green politics all in one. Don’t believe me? Go to the UN’s own web site and search you will come across something that is calling for world socialism.
      Search agenda 21, but don’t tell the liberals, or they will mull your head with how it’s unbinding garbage. Unbinding sounds good, but as long as the states/countries agree with it unbinding means squat.
      If the Hammond’s think that turning yourself into the Gestapo is the right thing then let em, but don’t for one moment think that by not standing now and here you wont have to stand somewhere down the road, and will only just be another situation as this. Where the Federal Govt. is bullying people for some reason or other. So don’t think that they are dumb for doing this and have no right to, because our second amendment gives us this right,and waiting for the perfect storm to rally around will not happen. it’s always going to be something like this Govt’ overstepping their boundaries and or enforcing some stupid law or something.
      So think not that this just includes the Hammond’s and these people are stupid and they aren’t picking their battles, because I’m sure they might be, and to think you can just pick and chose when and were you make a stand are living in a pipe dream. For their will never be a time when it’s convenient, or your not stepping on peoples toes to do it. Or your never going to look good especially to the liberals or the Fascist right.
      your always going to look extremist, or half baked ti will always be the wrong time wrong place wrong way.
      You either stand or you don’t. you will never be approved of, but only the few who actually get it.
      brave-heart I respect what you say on here and all but if your looking at these people as stupid wrong time wrong place wrong way etc… then you’ve missed the mark.
      making stand will never ever be in the right place and time or done the right way.
      I pray for these people, and hope to god almighty that if the Feds storm them, people on here and other sites would have the sense to not let it be in vain.
      To the pussies one here and else where that say they hope they storm them and shoot them all up shame on you and you need to stop hiding behind what’s called Patriots, because your nothing more than treasonous cowards and deserve no less the same.
      As stated this is deeper than the Hammond’s or some law they supposedly broke which pisses me off that people hide behind the law on this too, but that’s a different story for later.
      but this is about world Socialism, NWO all that and no it’s not a conspiracy theory it’s an agenda. Go look at the UN’s site you will find it all there in black and white.
      Collective vs liberty is what this all is nothing less.
      Wake UP!

      • Noob1989 says:

        You might be right. Just don’t forget who the real enemy is behind the NWO. It is not any one political party but the parties running both of them. The fish rotts from the head down. Chances are good they will easily take further control of the new system, nevermind pay for their destruction and manipulation. Maybe all the wealth in the world can save you, if you catch my drift.

        So what happens after we take our country back, assuming we do? How do you keep the slow, soft kill from creeping back into your society? Keep everything domestic and go back to the year 1800? I think that could work ecxept for all the socialists wanting to do nothing and have everything. Welfare recipients are at an all time high and the Bernie Sanders people are rampant around here.

        I feel this excerpt may have just gone full circle. Does anyone have anything intelligent to offer or am I just going to fall into the epitome of this website?

    94. sd Harms says:

      I wonder if it crosses any of the feds minds that in order to start the violence “someone ” (in the feds ranks) might have to die — by friendly fire (false flag). If I were FBI I would be thinking that and asking myself “will it be me?” Do any of the FBI agents want to die for this? Is that why they are huddling away from the site? trying to convince the agents to go out there, when each of them is thinking the above?

    95. Godsoldier says:

      Is it staged are they actors or even gov ie fbi cia nsa ect. Just an obama show set up. If one true patriot police military with all that past experience was to go there and talk to them then we would know cus you can tell what people are just by how they speak and carry themselves

    96. We have all been waiting for one group of Patriots to “draw a line in the sand” and the Malheur federal compound is, for better or for worse, where that line has been drawn. The gauntlet has been thrown down, and cannot be “un-thrown”. From here, it gets really ugly, and affects everyone.

      So, the question of “when and where will the next Revolution begin?” has been answered. It will begin with the first shots fired at the Malheur federal compound in Oregon. This is the inevitable response of the goon squads of the federal machine. Quite simply put, the Obamunists now find themselves between a rock and a hard place, and put themselves there by their own arrogance and incompetence.

      If the feds do NOT respond with force, then they risk more armed Patriot groups taking over more federal facilities all over our nation. If enough federal facilities are seized by armed citizen groups, then the machinery of what is widely perceived as a hostile occupation government would just simply grind to a halt.

      Once the Obamunists *do* respond with force, then they will predictably incur the wrath and blowback from Patriots all over America, not just in Oregon.

      Once the Obamunists *do* use force against those Patriots in Oregon, then it becomes much more likely that Patriots elsewhere would choose to extend the same treatment to federal employees everywhere else, nationwide.

      Once the Obamunists *do* use force in Oregon, it could all very easily escalate into the nationwide bloodletting that is described in John Ross’ novel “Unintended Consequences”.

      http://www.amazon.com/Unintended-Consequences-John-Ross/dp/1888118040/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1451801637&sr=1-1&keywords=unintended+consequences

      In Ross’ novel, “open season” was declared on ALL federal employees, not just those in federal law enforcement. IRS agents, EPA employees, DOE paper-pushers, managers, directors, secretaries, office workers, GS-3 janitors, you name it, *all* of them started to Assume Room Temperature in that story. In Ross’ novel, every employee of the federal government, at every level, suddenly became “fair game” for assassination.

      The end result was the same, the gears of the hated machine just simply ground to a halt.

      In fact, a “John Ross outcome” has suddenly become more than merely “almost certain”, as many of us now see it as inevitable and unavoidable. The Feds seem poised to reap what they have sown.

      This situation will inevitably blow up in the faces of our federal Overlords, but the utterly predictable nationwide blowback from Patriots that will inevitably follow is unlikely to deter the federal jackbooted thugs from using force against the Militia volunteers in Oregon.

      Who the players might be, and how the armchair quarterbacks second-guess their first play has become entirely moot at this point. The coin has been tossed, the players have lined up, and both sides are now silently leaning forward, waiting for the whistle to be blown. The time for talk has clearly ended and we are now seconds away from Game Time.

      Our Second American Revolution is right now just one “shot heard around the world” from kick-off. Once the feds use force against those Patriots in Oregon, then our nation takes one step closer to Civil War.

      Gentle people, Buy More Λmmo, while you still can. Doing so is *still* the only viable treatment for ODDD (Obamunist Douchebag Distrust Disorder). Doing so is *still* the only remaining path to Liberty.

      Support your local Militia and/or your local Oath Keepers. Be the Resistance. This won’t end pretty, Λmerica.

    97. Dirk Williams says:

      I HAVE AQUESTION. If the original sentance was overturned by the 9th, why is it that the BLM STILL has first right of refusal on purchasing the land, should the Hammomds have to sell.

      If the sentance was overturned, would that not mean that the Hammonds are free and clear of being forced to sell their land to the BLM.

      Dirk

     
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