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    Disintegration: What It Looks Like When a Nation Collapses

    Mac Slavo
    June 25th, 2012
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (359)
    Read by 27,049 people

    Whether the system is going to collapse is not the question.

    Most informed individuals understand that out of control spending fueled by trillions of dollars in debt, unprecedented monetary expansion and ever increasing dependence on a government social safety net overburdened by millions of people in need of essential services can not be sustained forever.

    For many Americans and our counterparts in Europe, the collapse is now.

    To suggest that we are somehow on the road to recovery is nothing but conjecture.

    We have no doubt that everyone is tired of bad news, but we are compelled to review the facts: Europe is currently experiencing severe bank runs, budgets in virtually every western country on the planet are out of control, the banking system is running excessive leverage and risk, the costs of servicing the ever-increasing amounts of government debt are rising rapidly, and the economies of Europe, Asia and the United States are slowing down or are in full contraction. There’s no sugar coating it and we have to stop listening to politicians and central planners who continue to downplay, obfuscate and flat out lie about the current economic reality. Stop listening to them.

    Source: Sprott Asset Management via Zero Hedge

    We are, by all accounts, sliding rapidly into the abyss of an untenable economic, financial, political and social disaster.

    The only question now is, “how is it going to look when it happens?”

    A glimpse into our future can be found in the veritable canary-in-the-coalmine in Europe – Greece.

    When the government of a nation can no longer borrow-and-spend-and-redistribute as before, when financial institutions reach the point of insolvency, when the consumer economy falls apart and when the people can no longer find jobs, very bad things will happen.

    In addition to food shortages in Greek prisons that are leaving many at the point of starvation, it’s gotten so bad in Greece that thousands of desperate people lined up over the weekend to receive handouts of food from charitable farmers in Crete:

    Starving Greeks queued around the block for free food handouts yesterday as the country’s politicians managed to end a crippling stalemate to form a coalition government.

    Young children as well as the elderly waited in line in Athens to collect the parcels of fruit and vegetables donated by farmers from Crete to help ease the devastating austerity faced by many Greeks. 

    Source: Daily Mail

    When the money runs out and the social safety net collapses, there is simply nothing the government can do aid in the recovery of an impoverished nation.

    We’ve opined previously regarding the effects of collapse on emergency services and the power utility grid, and how a lack of funds would lead to shutdowns of essential infrastructure components such as medical care, electricity and water. In modern-day society such a thought seems unfathomable.

    However, this is exactly what’s now starting to happen in Greece, as Natural News reports:

     The economic situation in Greece is only continuing to worsen, as reports indicate that hospitals and care centers throughout the nation are running completely out of medicines, and many healthcare workers are now voluntarily providing care services without pay.

    Strapped with spiraling debt, the Greek healthcare, which is government-run, has had to receive gobs of international financial aid just to keep operating with some semblance of normalcy. There has also been plenty of IOUs issued, and desperate patients quietly forking over cash “gifts” to doctors to receive treatments. All in all, the healthcare situation is in utter chaos, save for those that have sacrificed their own time, often free of charge, just to help those in need.

    Today, the situation has gotten even worse, particularly because the Greek healthcare system heavily relies on brand-name drugs rather than far-less-expensive alternatives. Since the entire system is clogged because of unpaid bills, many pharmacies, for instance, have had to simply close their doors. Those that still remain and continue to supply drugs on credit — these are few and far between — are being overwhelmed by long lines of desperate patients seeking life-saving medications.

    We’re not talking about painkillers here,” said one Greek woman, a cancer survivor, to Reuters. “We’ve learned to live with physical pain. We need drugs to keep us alive.

    In addition to the immediate survival needs of food and medical care, Greek utility companies are so far gone that they are on the cusp of having their power and natural gas flows cut off, leaving the entire grid dark and throwing the an entire country back to the Stone age.

    We’ve seen this disaster play out over the course of the last three years, so a ‘collapse’ doesn’t have to be some waterfall event that happens over night. It can take shape over time and slowly chip away at all facets of the system until it simply disintegrates.

    How will it look when it happens?

    Looking at such a collapse we’ll have seen food supplies diminish and potentially disappear. The power infrastructure will be so strained by individuals and companies alike not being able to pay their bills that electricity, gas and clean water will simply stop being delivered. Emergency services personnel including health care workers, police, and firefighters will not be getting paid by a government too overwhelmed by debt, leaving many to first act as volunteers. Eventually, they will simply stop coming to work, at which point law, order, and normalcy will go out the window.

    All government services will be strained, leaving those who depended on the government for their backup plan with nothing. They will either stop issuing food assistance, or it will be such a paltry amount with respect to the price of food that it will barely feed your family. Medical care will simply become unavailable, and that includes life saving drugs like antibiotics. Violence and crime will undoubtedly rise and there will be blood in the streets, as the general unprepared population struggles to cope with the new paradigm.

    For those who think it can’t happen here – simply take a look around. Just about every measure of economic, financial and social health in the United States is indicating that we are reaching a breaking point.

    The collapse that many say will never happen, that others are waiting for as some event that will occur in the future, is happening right here and now.

    All we can do now is to learn from what’s happening in Greece and take steps to prepare today.

    We can learn a lot from those on the ground in the midst of a desperate situation. Those like our friend Manos in Greece, who in a recent dispatch noted “My Shotgun is Full and Well Equipped. I Hope I Don’t Need to Use It.

    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post
        name:     email:        details

    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 27,049 people
    Date: June 25th, 2012
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

     

    359 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. godsofold says:

      Collapse in happening in the U.S. as we speak. Just because you don’t see the suffering, does not mean that it isn’t taking place. Stay safe, stay prepared. God bless.

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      • KY Mom says:

        It is so sad to see this “unfold” and know what comes our way.

        When I read about the situation in Greece, I think of Manos and his family.

        You are in our prayers Manos.

        Stay strong. Be safe.

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      • I think that only those who simply refuse to look can’t see it.

        Really, all we need to look at is the Nutritional Food Assistance rate at 48.5+ million, and the (unofficial per shadowstats.com) unemployment rate of 22%+ to provide all the evidence we need to show this is really happening.

        Never mind the trillions in overt national debt, the $200 trillion in liabilities over the next 25 years, the 40% wealth reduction of average Americans in the last three years, and…. we could go on and on…

        Greece is ‘lucky’ in that they have had backstops from the US and Europe for the last 3 years… But what happens when it comes to the United States? When our national debt obligations become un-servicable?

        There’s no one waiting in the wings to kick the can down the road at that point…

        It will be brutal when we go critical…

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        • deano says:

          we are truely a house of cards, greece has had some backup, europe has had backup… when its our turn does any one really think china or russia would back us up?? yeah right, no way, not a chance.. so when this house of cards falls there will be nothing left of the house and it will be every card for its self without anyone near or far to help, no services, no phone, no water, NO HELP.. it wont take long at all once the house begins to topple and right now the wind is blowing against the house and shaking it

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        • I’ve really been wrestling with “how it will” happen and disintegrate not if but how. Your point is most valid in that Greece still has us and Europe to fall back on, but lets face it – that is for the elite in Greece not Manos and his family or the millions of other good people. The true aid will be to the wealthy, and a few hand outs to keep the peace among the rest. I think that is the lesson we can see from Greece, and then of course the US it will be far worse because we don’t have a Europe/US to fall back on.

          http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/BOGNONBR

          A fellow reader of this blog pointed me to this last week I think. It is a telling story. US Banks are \ have accumulated GREAT sums of cash reserves (at least digitally). I mean look at that chart – we’re talking a FUNDAMENTAL and MONUMENTAL change in fiscal policy. That can only lead me to believe they expect to hyper inflate – I still fear deflation and deflation would make them WEALTHY beyond belief if they were holding that kind of “dollar.” So its clearly still possible, but it stil strikes me as though they are preparing for a hyper inflation not a deflation.

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          • JRS says:

            Jim….That truly is a disturbing chart. How did they come by these non borrowed reserves? The spike in the last few years is astounding. Was this an outright Fed injection without going through the discount window? Maybe this is where that 4 trillion went that Bernanke refuses to reveal?

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          • There is another link on the same web site illustrating the increase in money supply as well. That is how they come by these reserves. Push of a button not really a roll on the press.

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          • kevin says:

            Thats a telling chart(AND like he said, “scary’). Lord only knows what they are up to.

            I was looking at the dallas feds holding of “gold certificates” a few minutes ago,for some reason I was thinking of the “helicopter” speech.

            Bernyankme’s last weapon. Gold revaluation.

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          • JayJay says:

            ~~~US Banks are \ have accumulated GREAT sums of cash reserves~~~

            Well, I just read today that cash comes from drug money laundering..about the only source for most banks today.
            And it’s crucial they keep that going in order to LOOK good.

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        • soapdish says:

          Salutations Mac,

          So many out there just think that the worse is over and everything will go on as usual. Most live just in the now, with little regards to what is/will happen in the future. When you have ass clowns on MSM stating that the American Gov is paying down the debt, I guess when the debt clock keeps going up 2 billion every day, that’s really curbing the spending. They just spent $338 million for more tomahawk missiles. A few million here, a couple billion there, thats some fiscal restraint going on.
          When I am out, I can only look at the people around me, having no clue as to how bad things really are going to be. many skeptics believe that a collaspe is right here and now, but it’s a gradual process that can take many years. The chipping of the stone at America”s foundation is weaking day by day, month by month, and year by year. No one can say when that final blow will happen, but happen it will!
          Just have to keep chugging along as best you can and keep a situational awareness always at the for front of your thinking. When the lid blows off, I highly doubt that many will be at home. So you have to be somewhat ready. It is tough trying to get things across to loved ones, but having one (awake) in the household is better than non.
          Every aspect of every culture out there is going to be touched one way or another by the collapse that is gainging speed around the world. I highly doubt that saneness will topple the insanity of the boiling pot for war?

          B Aware, B Awake, B Alive

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          • Tina says:

            YES….If I have heard it once….I have heard 100 times, a news anchor state that “we are coming out of the recession”.

            We are coming out of it alright…from the frying pan into the fire!

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        • old soldier says:

          I agree. People , most people, have NO idea just what happen when an economy goes critical. Another thing: the numbers of people going to food banks is increasing. I ought to know ….I’m one of them. One last thing, most people have no idea what hungry people will do. I used to work with refugees. When it came time to distribute food and/or clothes, it was an eye opening experience. The police on patrol were four to a cruiser.

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          • Highspeedloafer says:

            As of right now I am still able to contribute to our baptist associations food pantry. Last night our church had a program called “food for a song”. Bring a bag of food and pick a song for the church or choir to sing. It is always an inspiration to me to see the food pour in, but this time I noticed there was less food being donated. That kinda raised a few eyebrows for some folks who haven’t awakened yet. They wondered why. It was an opportunity for me to further enlighten them. Lets hope more and more people wake up and soon.

            Our pantry recently started asking for loaf bread. Thats a first for me. When the clients can’t even afford loaf bread, you know its getting bad.

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        • Iowa says:

          Mac, I would like to thank you and all the preppers on all websites whose comments I have read and learned from. I am surely a rich man now (prepared) because of all of you. Thank you for being awake.

          I thank you much. My family will survive because of God’s grace and y’all.

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          • Iowa, thank you for joining the discussion and sharing your insights! I’d say “It takes a village” but I would probably get thumbs downed like crazy — so, I’ll go with “It’s a team effort!”
            :)

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          • SmokinOkie says:

            No, Mac. We’ll just wave our pom poms and yell “Go Village!”

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        • SonOfSam says:

          This is why I am NOT a “prepper”. Prepper makes it sound like you’re getting ready for something to happen. ITS ALREADY HAPPENING! I am a lifer… I live because I will not die because of someone else’s bungling selfish lazyass goddamned stupidity.

          And because I’m on a mission from GOD…hat tip to the Blues Brothers, and no I’m not kidding

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        • sclindah says:

          If we didn’t have food stamp “cards” to use in grocery stores, think of how many food lines we would be having here in our country – more than were in the 30s I’m afraid.

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          • salvadordaly says:

            What will happen when those “SNAP” (EBT) cards all of the sudden come back “insufficiant funds”? Scary! I can tell you people one thing for sure. “It is unfolding right in front of your eyes! Example giving my self. Laid off last week from an air conditioning company in south Texas “in the middle of July”. Buisness was there, just not the right buisness. People are not spending money (and I understand why) Our repairs were up 30% while our replacement of units was down 40%. Our bread and butter is on replacement of systems. Once again I do understand the position that the average American is in and I do not blame them for my job loss. People, any “little” thing you can do to prepare for what is unfolding will greatly benefit you and your family in the end. Oh, and by the way, please consider my self for any jobs availble in south east Houston area would be greatly appreciated! There ya go Mac, I just gave you a new tab to add to your web site “Jobs available” right up there by Submit News & Articles. “Welcome to the new U.S.A. everybody”!

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        • martin says:

          GOD be with you,your family and your country.

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          • Tarheelbilly says:

            I pray that you will find employment soon. All of this umemployment/underemployment, etc. reminds me of when I lived in Russia in the late 90s. (Just after the collapse of the USSR). My host was an engineer, and she told me that people hadn’t been paid in rubles in MONTHS. When I asked her how people afforded food, utilties, etc., she said that they were paid in goods and vodka. People traded/bartered for what they needed, but money was VERY scarce. The currency fluctated so wildly that I only kept a very small amount of rubles on me at any given time. One of my friends (a mountain boy from Watagua Co. NC) literally used rubles as toilet paper they were so worthless. While I was there, the currency was devalued. If you had, say, 1000 rubles in the bank one day, you woke up the next day and you had 1. They swiped 3 zeros from your money overnight. The changed the colors of the money and the faces to keep you from hording them. Amazing. People were resiliant (sort of), but it was a HORRIBLE way to live. America has no idea what is in store for us. Our “new normal” is pushing us closer and closer to 3rd world status by way of death of a thousand cuts. I pray for us all. Take care everybody.

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      • Tina says:

        I work in the healthcare industry and the supply chain is already very strained cuppled with the financial situation, it is oly a matter of time.

        I can see where the same thing can (and will) happen here. The question I have to face is how far will I go to serve others and how long could we hold our doors open in the same situation?

        May the Lord be with us!

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        • Prepared Pastor says:

          Hopefully our small rural hospital can keep the doors open until our second (and last) child is born in February. I am fully prepared for a lot of things, but a vbac delivery or a c-section is outside my expertise.

          I have a pretty extensive delivery/surgery kit which I will be improving upon, but need to compile a list of obstetricians in the area and track down their home addresses. Any other ideas on how to better prepare?

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          • Tina says:

            Don’t forget the mid-wifes and Paramedics….always able to help when the going gets tough.

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          • PP

            A guide to emergency preparedness for childbirth – my midwife dot org.

            This is comprehensive and well explained and covers all aspects of childbirth. Hope this helps

            Take care

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          • Prepared Pastor

            A guide to emergency preparedness for childbirth can be found at my midwife dot org

            It is well written and clear and covers all aspects of home deliveries. I hope this helps.

            Take care

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          • eppe says:

            PP;
            Your wife will come thru with flying colors, I know all will be well with you and yours. Do not ask me how I know, I just know. Keep us in touch with the happenings in your life, and we are all with you, even if you are in a third world country called WV. I PRAY we all come thru this alive and intact, since we see the future and are ready.
            GOD bless you and your family….

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4

          • Nella Rogers says:

            Sadly there will be many women who will not survive childbirth especially if they can not deliver normally. Back before modern medicine women who were expecting towards the end of their pregnancy’s would enter what would be know as a death watch. That is why there is the big announcement that mother and child are both doing well. Way back when that was some much sought after news. Also if the birth control pill become unavailable it will be interesting to see what happens. Yous should go to the patriot nurse’s channel on YouTube and watch some of her videos especially the one’s who she says will not survive in a SHTF scenario.

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          • Juliette says:

            You might try memorizing the book “When there’s no doctor.” Keep in mind that women have been having babies for thousands of years, but sometimes that process doesn’t work so well. I’ve had two C-sections and would have died without them, as would the babies. If your wife is young and fit, she’ll probably make it, but childbirth is extremely painful (my first two births were natural, which is highly overrated, and complications from those led to the need for a C-section.) and a lot can go wrong. Think I’d make close friends with one or two of the paramedics, or an experienced nurse. Am sure you have talents you can exchange. Best of luck to all of you.

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          • Aaron says:

            PP
            Do you have medical items for god forbid you have any complications? Don’t want to be a pessimist but stuff happens. My son was born with a heart issue and had to have surgery when he was two weeks old to repair it. Not sure what items you would need but something to consider

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          • JoeinNC says:

            Hidden due to low comment rating. Click to read it.

            Poorly-rated. What do You Think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 22

          • Prepared Pastor says:

            JoeinNC,
            Christians provide for their own families first. 1 Tim 5:8 teaches those who do not provide for their own household are worse than unbelievers. While you are clearly not one of us, maybe you can respect that we live according to our stated values.

            I could fill a volume with the things I have done for others, so won’t be explaining myself to you.

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      • Seeker of Truth says:

        It’s more than just here, it’s bigger than the U.S.

        http://www.wakeupamerica.com/Our-Experts/Additional-Contributors/Articles/Developing-Story-Obama-Bypasses-Congress,-Gives-$.aspx

        Obama administration giving 1.5 BILLION in MILITARY aid to muslim brotherhood. I may not be the most religious but I know damn well that the Bible says Israel will be in the center of the end of times events. I was worried about and prepping for financial crisis / collapse, however this shit just seemed to get a whole lot bigger.

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      • Be informed says:

        I think the best 3 words to describe the way the common person in regards to everything that is going on and their total lack of concern and utter smugness about their own little self absorped lives is “OUT OF TOUCH”.

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        • SWIFT says:

          If you think the people are out-of-touch, look at our government. We stand on the brink of an economic abyss and the leadership is campaigning, vacationing, or playing golf! By comparison, I can only imagine Nero.

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          • Be informed says:

            @ SWIFT. 99% of those that don’t prepare are “only” out of touch, those in the government are OUT OF THEIR MINDS.

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          • John W. says:

            Not to mention opening the borders to illegals and siding with the illegals against a soverign US state. At one time immigration was tailored to the needs of the US not the other way around with high unemployment resulting in a suspension of most legal immigration. Tell you what all those on this site that sound like they just can’t wait to bug out, those of you who live in the border states will get your wish. Within days of the US collapsing I expect the Mexican military to advance across the border and take back what they still consider to be theirs. Since I live fifteen miles from that border I am a little concerned about that.

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        • JayJay says:

          I’ll share that until last week, I knew of not one person preparing for any of this spoken of here.
          I checked craigslist; for water storage/water barrels.
          Found 3 and emailed with questions, etc.
          The nearest my town asked the right questions, and after a few comments, a few prepping jokes…I discovered, I just knew with his wording, he was a prepper.
          I mean, after all, he’s selling 55 gallon drums/barrels!!!
          He cautioned me about my weapon, and certain things; I played dumb..which for me is pretty easy.

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          • jen10 says:

            It’s always good to play dumb around those you don’t know well enough to trust. My Jeff Spicoli routine has served me very well, for years.

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        • Gregory8 says:

          Be informed: If there will be any saving grace to all of this it’s the demise of the liberals and loafers who believe in the “saving power of big government”. When the government collapses the improvident who rely so much on government programs will be like diabetics without insulin: they will die a slow, but inevitable death. The liberals will cry for the government “to do something” and will die waiting for a response. The ones to worry about are the loafers who will become violent; they are more like drug addicts whose dealer has left town. When the withdrawl hits them these folks will go on a rampage, so we must be prepared to “discourage” them. Good luck and keep getting ready.

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      • Odd Questioner says:

        It is indeed happening, but the movement is so slow that one could compare it to the movement of the sun. A quick glance will show no movement, but periodic checks will show that things are indeed moving inexorably towards the point of no return.

        There may be a means to reverse the slide (a slim hope at best…) but thanks to a media who worships drama and ideological conflict more than truth, I doubt that the population would listen in unison. If a recovery plan issued forth? One side (the same political ‘side’ of the guy that originated it) will praise it as the savior of humanity. The other ‘side’ will scream that it will kill us all. The result is that nothing will be done.

        Long-view? All civilizations go through massive resets. Every single one. Even the ones you think that haven’t – China, India, etc? They’ve all gone through them, and have only barely managed to hold onto their cultural identities all this time. Meanwhile, they’ve seen wars, starvations, and massive suffering that left few if any individuals unscathed.

        We’re all headed for the same thing – just that few know it, and fewer still are willing to admit it.

        The more I see the news, the more I’m reminded of Isaac Asimov’s Foundation series… it describes slow collapse very nicely.

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      • On the eve of our, now inevitable, economic/financial/monetary collapse, we’ll see an event unleashed here first which will then get blamed for it, so that TPTB (that allowed & caused collapse) don’t all get hung from lamp posts.

        Nuke, terrorism, severe oil cutoff, war, pandemic, something/anything, so that TPTB can then escape blame for collapse and are still in power to next offer up their planned draconian solutions, that’ll erode our last scant remaining liberty & wealth, after populace have suffered long & hard enough to eagerly grasp for it then.

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    2. Rasputin says:

      A good article

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      • hammerun says:

        Oh hell; I can’t wait for Nancy Pelosi’s snippet of wisdom on this.
        You know you have to think if Mssss. Pelosi is this far lost in the woods. What in the hell is voting her in office? Cut this state in half.
        The 51st state of southern California.

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        • JayJay says:

          I read Jane Fonda is her BFF; that must have something to do with it…or it’s bought by Jane’s hubby?

          Makes one wonder, huh.

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        • SonOfSam says:

          Both Nancy and Maxine waters look like human(?) beef jerky, kinda like Keith Richards on a bad hair day. Ever notice you never them all three in the same place at the same time?

          Just sayin’

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          • John W. says:

            Why are you picking on Keith Richards? All he has ever done is make himself and others millions of dollars over his career unlike the two parasites Nancy and Maxine.

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    3. Chief says:

      I would like to thank everyone who is publishing info from “behind enemy lines” so to speak. Most other sources are not getting the would out. This is extremely important to those who can understand the potential disaster that awaits other countries.

      RBS bank in the UK went down for 5 days and may still be down. Hadn’t heard a peep from MSM sources and probably won’t. 5 days of no cash or debit cards and needing to get gas and food. What a riot, literally, there would be here. EBT cards not accepted. A massive OMG moment brought to you by massive debt.

      Chief

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      • Nope, i didn’t see a whole lot on that RBS issue either. You’d think it’d be a bigger story considering 12 million customers couldnt access ATM’s, online banking and a host of other services.

        I guess they didn’t want to create a panic…

        http://www.thedailysheeple.com/millions-of-bank-customers-unable-to-access-funds-in-europe_062012

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        • Jim (another Jim) says:

          That is scary Mac. I keep some cash on me but I think I need to start carrying more. Can you imagine the bank run that would have started if it had been aired on MSM? Keep up the good work Mac, I for one appreciate the work you do, and I know there are several others that do also.

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          • SWIFT says:

            Is carrying cash such a good idea? Once a few years ago, we had a blackout here. All cash registers are electronic and you could not buy a thing. People wanting gas,(the pumps didn’t work)food, clothing, pizza, etc, nothing worked and no one would accept cash. A real wake up call to the complacent community. Just a thought.

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          • Prepared Pastor says:

            Carrying cash is a good idea for some emergencies such as the one described above. If we had a bank holiday here, for example, my neighbor would accept my cash to rent his flatbed to move some more things to the retreat before things progress to another level.

            I think sometimes preppers have their own form of normalcy bias in that they start thinking every event will be like the one they most expect when we should be flexible enough to handle anything whether it is a bank holiday or total chaos.

            In addition to storing gasoline, I keep a couple 12volt pumps for drawing fuel from the station tanks without electricity. One for me and the other for the rural owner/operator who lives next door to his station.

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        • Mac

          This mini-crisis has provided an insight of what will happen here when the collapse comes.

          People will moan, gripe and stand around waiting for it to be sorted out. Only when they realise it will not be sorted out will they actually realise it is game over.

          Millions of people affected and nobody was questioning the situation. I never heard a single person suggest it may be something more than the computers playing up…it never occurred to anyone who mentioned it it may be the start of bank holidays, it may be a cyber attack that has wiped out everything they had. They accepted totally that as inconvenient as it was it would be sorted out and everything would be fine.

          Anyone who is remotely aware over here is going t have a loopy good head start on the rest of the population.

          Take care

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      • Chief

        I’m a customer of that bank. It has Ben difficult and I am not one of those with staff to pay and with no food in the house.

        Maybe, just maybe, a few of those hit hard by this may consider keeping a few things in in case this happens again……as we all knowit will eventually, but it will not be for five days. It will be much much longer.

        Take care

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        • To The Author Unknown: says:

          Burt the Brit and others,

          I saw this from the WSJ and thought it pertinent, and was hoping it might help. If anyone is with any of these 15 banks, I’d be getting out fast!

          (take out space after online and before com)
          online .wsj. com/public/resources/documents/st_BANKDOWNGRADE06121220120621.html

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          • Barlow/the author unknown

            Thank you

            Take care

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          • John W. says:

            Stockton, Ca. will file Chapter 9 tomorrow. The City of North las Vegas is broke and Nevada will be taking over running it. San Diego is barely hanging on but at least they voted in some big changes to their public employee mess. I expect to see a growing number of cities going broke.

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    4. deano says:

      its funny how people dont see this country as being at the of collapsing, but it sure is and the gov. know it thats why they are doing everything they can to keep tabs on us and to keep us where thay can control the populas… and yet they wont be able to unless they bring in support from other countries to put down any uprising and all that will do is create civilwar :(

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      • Barn Cat says:

        Russian troops are being trained here. They could also bring in troops through the UN from countries that hate us like Egypt and Pakistan.

        I think the government is preparing for civil war. Why else would homeland security have 450 million hollow point rounds?

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        • moman says:

          What do you think they’ll use for currency when the dollar collapses/By then bullets will be sought more than dollars.

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        • realifemechanic says:

          When the collapse comes… and uniformed foreign troops are seen in public they will become moving targets. It makes no sense for the PTB to allow that to happen.It will then end any hidden agenda or question about intent to the general public..

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        • Griz says:

          Blue helmets make good targets!

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          • Red Coat says:

            @Griz …… I did two 6 month tours wearing a “blue hat” with my counties Military. As well as an “orange hat” tour with the MFO (Multinational Force of Observers) to the Siani and also four other tours wearing green and desert colored “hats” on various tours.
            Blue Helmets might make good targets, but don’t forget that the body underneath that helmet is a trained soldier from some countries Military. And some of those Miliaries AREN’T Pakistani, Jordanian or from some other piss arse county. Some of those countries that put on “Blue hats” have highly trained MIlitaries.
            I was in a Light Infantry unit mostly. I enjoyed working/training with US army Rangers. They were OK. They were good at some things with all their BIG toys, but lacked in other areas. Some days theyd show us up, other days we’d show them up. (and they were shite when it was cold, wet and weeks away from hot showers and edible food)
            Never underestimate your target @Griz They might be tougher to chew than you thought. And don’t forget, some targets might fire back and have the option of calling in other assets like mortars, arty and air or even armour.
            Just saying ……

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        • John W. says:

          I assisted in transfering one of our decommed ships (FFG)to the Egyptian Navy. It was an interesting experience. I also was involved in the transfer of two decommed(FFG) ships to the Turkish Navy. I much preferred working with the Turks. Practically all the Egyptian Officers had obtained American Social Security cards which confirmed my belief that this country is run by morons.

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    5. Barn Cat says:

      You can only imagine what it will be like in major cities when the government goes bankrupt and there’s no police force. Not only will the criminal class will go berserk. But also a lot of seemingly normal law-abiding citizens will too. There will be all kinds of crimes of opportunity. From murder to rape to kidnapping to child molestation. The only thing that keeps a lot of people in check is the fear of being caught and going to prison. Even your small town will become a very dangerous place to live after the collapse.

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    6. deano says:

      i guess i cant type worth a crap

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    7. The Bible says:

      Rev.6:5-6
      When he open the third seal I heard the living creature say, “Come and see, ” So I looked and behold a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four loving creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; “do not hurt the wine and the oil.

      Rev. 6:7-8

      When he opened the forth seal I heard the voice of the forth living creature saying, “Come and see”. So I looked and behold a pale horse. And the name of Him who sat on the horse was Death, and Hades followed Him. And power was given to them over a forth of the earth to kill with the sword, with hunger, and with death by the beasts of the earth.

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      • Tomakus says:

        So why is Hades mentioned in the bible if those gods were dismissed when the one god idea was introduced? Not to rudely question, just an observation

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        • Mama Bear says:

          Possibly the competing “gods” were seen as demons by many early Christians. I saw the reference to Hades here as metaphorical, that when Death comes, there are hellish things to follow, not an actual dude running after Death, and his name was Hades. But who knows.

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          • The Bible says:

            @ Mama Bear,

            Excellent answer.

            I used the New King James a rework of the KJV. The greek work in the 1611 version was not the best. A better word would have been “hell”, but I don’t like putting words into God’s mouth… call me “sensitive” to His word.

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        • Aaron says:

          i think Hades is what they referred to as hell. Have you ever heard its hotter than Hades in here? It’s just another name for hell to many ;)

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        • don't-tread says:

          The word “hades/Hades” doesn’t appear in the original KJV. The word originated from Greek mythology. Newer translations of the KJV have been changed to better suit the authors and the “new age” readers. Most people associate “Hades” with the true biblical word “Hell”. Many words have been changed with the “newer” translations. Some were changed with little or no effect as to the original manuscript meaning; however, some were changed to completely distort the original intent, and for this reason I don’t use “newer versions”. In fact most of my studies are done with the Companion Bible which takes most of it’s words and meanings directly from the “original” languages.

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      • Tina says:

        I can not imagine. I believe I can take anything but I feel for the children.

        This is my reason for prepping. I do not do it for myself necessarly, I do it because I could NOT live with myself if my children suffered through hunger.

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        • Jim (another Jim) says:

          Tina, I agree. I am in my mid 40s, done a majority of the things I have wanted to do in my life, and I am very secure in the knowledge of where I am going when I die. All of the stuff I do, the preps I make, the knowledge I aquire and pass on; is not for me. It is for my daughter soninlaw and grandchildren. I want to give them a chance to survive.

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          • "V" says:

            That’s why it is vital that the Lord is the Lord of all of their lives.

            God’s judgments are happening, get prepared now, and keep prepping!

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        • kynase says:

          Tina-

          I hear ya. What would a mother NOT do to protect her children? It sickens me that the hope and dreams that I want my children to have for a bright and wonderful future could be utterly smashed by a collapsing economy and stumbling nation filled with corruption and deception. Prioritizing what is best for the future generations is critical.

          It’s funny…all those kids (and their lazy parents) that roll their eyes at education, break laws, sell drugs, yolo, refuse to be a part of their community, etc, might very well find that the education and community they turned their back on could have been what saved them metaphorically and literally.

          I pray that my children and their children do not have to live through economic collapse and civil unrest. However, like any good game of chess, the pieces are in place for a check mate.

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      • QuantumBubbler says:

        …which reminds me to remind you… get digital scales to help with bartering… now back to our regular collapsing…

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        • Aaron says:

          Not digital get old school ones that don’t waste your batteries or even worse don’t work if you don’t have batteries. I think they still sell scales that aren’t electronic lol

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          • BlueH20 says:

            Look at simple jewelers scales. They come with a set of calibrated weights specifically for weighing PMs.

            For small amounts of other goods, there are pressure-sensitive postal scales for up to 5–50 pounds.

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          • Hawk says:

            yea, you can still get triple beam scales, try rio-grande or some sites that deal in casting
            Hawk

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    8. Be informed says:

      Unlike Greece the United States is quite large in geographic area and a disintegration will actually be A LOT worse. The smaller the land mass, the more the country can still maintain the basic foundations of its roots. When you have a country the size of the U.S. collapse, it is very likely it will break into several parts, much like a Yugoslavia. There are so many other times in history that an empire that encompasses much land has fallen apart; and it is ugly.

      I can see a 5 part break; the northeast, the south, the pacific region, the mountain west, and the middle of the country. Kind of like what happened towards the end of the Jericho TV series. The country is so polarized right now, a break-up would be easy, and unlike a country like Libya that is also large in land there would be several factions of states. A civil war can be fought when you have 2 sides, but several sides it becomes very difficult. It just fragments like a broken china plate.

      The trillions of dollars will come to bear that is owed, and a catastrophic natural or manmade disaster could easy be the sack of crap that breaks the horse’s back. The San Andreas and the New Madrid Fault are two disasters waiting to happen and way overdue for california. But the real sum of all fears really and truly comes not from a couple of nukes, but from a biology source. A dozen or more nukes being detonated would throw the country easily over the edge, but a pathogen is the real issue.

      Biology terrorism is horrifying, as a 100 lbs sack of anthrax properly dispersed could not only kill milliuons put make large amounts of land not useable for a long time and cost tens of trillions if not more. Bioweapons are the real sum of all fears. The natural sum of all fears is a germ that is highly contagious and kills more than smallpox would, an Andromeda Strain type. People become way too overconfident in medical science to solve a killer plague, there are certain viruses and bacteria that can kill practically everyone before a vaccine can be developed, happens all the time in animal and plant species.

      Then there is the mere fact that the U.S. may already be at that threshold of dying as a country and not need to have some internal catastrophe to throw it over the edge. It could just happen all of a sudden. A Middle East war in which the U.S. is not involved at all could kill the economy because of the mere fact of $300 or more oil. The U.S. is tettering like a an old wooden rot bridge in the wind waiting for the slightest of weight to be put on it to break. Preparation is really the ONLY way someone is going to save their family, because even if the government wanted to help which it wouldn’t without a price tage attached to it, a broken country means that the government probably won’t be able to anyway. What you have in physical supplies and your own mental abilities is likely all anyone will have.

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      • Tym says:

        I think you’re onto something there with the breakup into territories. However, it may be those – and Texas. People are still real freaky about that down here. Plus, we have an electric grid not connected to the rest.

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        • John W. says:

          You will be rejoining Mexico like the other border states. That will be done in the first week and nothing we can do can stop it. Demographics is destiny and ours is to be displaced.

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      • Obtuseangler says:

        I also agree with your thoughts on the breakup of the country. This is a theory that others have had, as well. There are a number of factors that support this:

        1) Our federal government is becoming increasingly oppressive. Our president chooses which laws to enforce and which to ignore. This imperial style does not sit well with Americans. A government that ignores laws is a lawless government, and forfeits its legitimacy.

        2) Ethnicities are concentrated largely by geographic region. For example, that’s why things may not work out for our friends in Texas quite the way they might like. Every county south of San Antonio is already part of Old Mexico in a cultural sense, and Dallas and Tarrant Counties are not far behind. National breakups tend to take place along ethnic lines. See Yugoslavia and the old Soviet Union for contemporary examples of this.

        3) Our central government derives its power primarily from its unlimited funds. If the power of the dollar declines, so does central authority.

        4) States like California and Illinois are heading towards insolvency. The tendency of politicians will be to bail them out in exchange for votes. Those of us paying the taxes in more modest states will not take that well.

        Just my thoughts. I probably have no idea what I’m talking about.

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        • Tym says:

          I think you’re pretty close on TX. For one thing, it’s so darn big, with huge gaps between centers of population. Ethnic rivalries will flourish, for one, simply due to extreme prejudice already prevalent.

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      • JayJay says:

        And let us not forget all those fires someone is setting in Colorado???

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    9. OmegaGrayKnight says:

      This is my first time posting here, but i come here almost everyday. to be honest, you might say that i woke up about the world situation about 2yrs ago. but i am just now starting to prep. took me a while to figure out how i wanted to start and what to go after. with the way things are going i hope that the world have one more year before things really start falling apart. because i will need all of the time that i can get to play catch up when it comes to prepping. trying to prep by myself is actually proving difficult. good things come to those that work toward them.

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      • Canada Canuk says:

        @OmegaGrayKnight…welcome to the site! Isn’t it a super place to gain knowledge (of every kind!) This is only my 3rd post, but have been visiting since Jan 11/2012, and I am addicted! Today I learned how to can hamburg “rocks”…thanx to Copperhead…did you see his receipe from 2 days ago?

        when I first started prepping in Jan., I couldn’t prep fast enough…..and now, I should be prepping even faster, it seems as though I have slowed down….or maybe I have reached a “plateau??” I’m really not sure, but just know that I have to get real busy again! Anyway, good luck to you!

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      • eppe says:

        OGK;
        Welcome, much knowledge can be gleaned here, also much debate, so have a thick skin, read all you can, prep as much as possible. We are all in this together, and we preppers will be the winners. Think outside the box, and ask questions, even if it sounds dumb, we all have gone thru the learning curve. Most all who post here want to help others get ready, but there are a few who bash everyone. I try to get people on board, some do, some don’t. You are doing the right thing, even when you get called names for looking out for your family. I even try to tell a joke or two just to break up the seriousness. Just a way to make us laugh, even though they may bad non-PC jokes. Just keep it clean, and enjoy the info, and of course store up things needed when the SHTF.

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        • from Nancy Pelosi’s past:

          The little boy was eating breakfast, but very slowly and quietly.

          His mother asked, “What’s the matter?”

          The little boy asked, “Moma, why doesn’t daddy have any hair?”

          She said, “Your daddy thinks a lot, and this causes his hair to fall out.”

          The room got real quit. Then the little boy asked, “Moma. why do you have so much hair?”

          The room got quiet again, and then she said, “Shaddup and eat!”

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    10. Anonymous says:

      Get your GEAR NOW ! love this SITE

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    11. leeholsen says:

      yes, i am suprised some areas in the US(like Detriot) haven’t started looking like this.

      When you see this in Detriot, parts of Chicago or parts of California(because its in default and just doesn’t know it) looking like Greece; you know its time to start stocking up on bottled water and past time to start stocking up on food, fuel sources, ammo, neccessities and cash.

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      • Live near The D says:

        164 detroit fire fighters getting layed off out of 881..thats a pretty significant number..trust me , in other ways than this it has already started in Detroit…come and see

        this is just one sector

        previously a ton of police were “let go”

        and many municipalities surrounding this city are also out of money..and the tax base just continues to shrink daily

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        • SonOfSam says:

          When I still lived in New England, the Providence RI police dept had to either get wage concessions from everyone, or lay off those with least seniority. You guessed it, they got rid of the young guys who were actually out on the streets running down criminals, and they left the “soggy in the mid sections” in place to polish their desks and shuffle papers. See, we don’t need EMPs or earthquakes or Bilderbergs when you got good old fashioned stupidity

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          • Rick:) says:

            Put government in charge of anything, and it will evolve into an inefficient mess.
            The problem will eventually take care of itself.
            Count on those fat pensions, salary and bennies.
            The taxpayer is a bottomless pit of money, and we want you to have it.
            By the way, I’ve had enough of military, police, firefighters and teachers being sacred cows. Every one of the above “professions” have become government money pits.

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      • Jasoncookies says:

        By that time it’s to late

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    12. SWIFT says:

      I have posted before that I believe the people of Greece are behaving much more civilized than you WILL witness here. People waiting in orderly lines for the distribution of available food? Here in the U.S., the inner cities, as always, will be the first to see looting. Then, not being happy with merely looting, they’ll follow up with the inevitable fires.(Happiness is burning down your own city!)Then, the government will crack down with draconian measures, except the crack down will not be against these sub-human scumbags. The crack down will be against activists, Constitutionalists, preppers, gun owners, those who speak out against corrupt government, Ron Paul supporters. You know, all those people already on the Homies/FBI lists. The politically correct movement has changed the face of the Republic into a shithole. Nothing can or will stop whats coming!

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      • LadyHawk says:

        @ SWIFT

        In agreement with you – Celente says it – “…when people have nothing to lose, they lose it…”

        It’s happening world wide –

        Keep prepping folks.

        Mac, saw the Natural News article when it first came out and started to email you – Today’s newsletter by him is also good as he is posting on supplements that are good alternatives to Big Pharma – now is a good time to check preps and add.

        I’m off scripts for high blood pressure for two years by researching, supplementing and having med checks to confirm working- it’s important to check quality of supplements too – like in everything, not all are the same.

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        • Prepared Pastor says:

          I’ve been off my high blood pressure medication for four years, but not doing anything differently so I still have borderline high blood pressure. Any suggestions?

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          • Prepared pastor

            Try to maintain your optimum weight
            Take regular moderate exercise
            Cut down or cut out cigarettes
            Reduce alcohol
            plenty of low cholesterol foods
            Reduce your salt intake – be careful with so called sodium reduced salt, high some are very high in potassium
            I have heard there are herbal remedies to help but I know nothing about them so cannot comment on their efficiency.

            Hope this helps

            Take care

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          • kevin says:

            @burt-

            Whats up with that big bank over their not posting peoples deposits?

            Whats the word on the street?
            I am just getting bits and pieces over here.

            Is that effecting you?

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          • kevin says:

            @burt-

            forgive my spelling, just got up.

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          • eppe says:

            GARLIC GARLIC, GARLIC.
            Google it….

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          • GA Girl says:

            Not only stay away from salty foods, but use lots of things that naturally flush fluids out. Such as vitamin c, cucumbers, celery, drink water etc. Many people who are borderline are put on lasix to get rid of excess salt water retention.

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          • JustMe says:

            A study was recently done, indicating Acupunture will help reduce high blood pressure.

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          • LadyHawk says:

            This is what is working for me -I also have a couple of “old” guys (70′s) doing the same and they too are off the statins & Pharms – we were comparing and we all didn’t like how we were feeling on the pharms – muscle ache and disorientation for me.

            Krill Oil (independent review {krilloilreview.org} major Arctic krill oil has Everest Nutrition as best with 1250 mg a serving 165 mg EPA 95 mg of DHA (taking 2 a day)

            Curcumin 95% 500 mg Turmeric-Curcumin.com This is the one used in clinical trials and studies. Please look at website. You will be amazed at what this stuff does for the body. Heart, blood, cancer – (taking 2 a day)

            The rest I get from Puritan Pride a dot com. Doing your research you will find they use an independent well known laboratory for quality control – that’s what I mean that not all supplements are alike. The pricing is excellent as they do buy 1 get 3 – right now it’s buy 2 get 5

            Turmeric Curcumin 1000 mg -900 mg is Turmeric and 100 mg is Curcumin (taking 1 a day) reading up on this stuff and you will realize why I do it this way. Turmeric has it’s separate benefits.

            Vitamin D3 5000 iu mega-potency liquid soft gel – as we get older we don’t process the pills as well -better absorption with liquids

            Vitamin C 500 mg soft gels (3-4 a day)

            Cayenne 450 mg (taking 1 a day)

            That’s my base and daily. The vitamin B’s, Potassium and niacin’s are good for the heart and I keep those around and every now and then add one or another to the mix.

            Third world countries use the dried hibiscus flower for high blood pressure. I add a few dried flowers to my water, tea and lemonade daily and sip throughout the day. IT WORKS. Don’t use very much if you have low blood pressure – it will drop you :-) In that case use it as a flavoring like raspberry is used to flavor drinks.

            I get mine from the Mexican store – they have it loose and it’s $7 a pound and that’s a half gallon jar of dried flowers and great for preps.

            FYI

            I use fresh cilantro to leach the heavy metals from my system – still have some mercury fillings – parsley also does the same. I drink distilled water I make myself and use a Mr. Distiller. it’s like a coffee pot for $99

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          • Merree says:

            These are all measures that have worked for some people. Just remember that these are being listed as answers to your question about treatment of high blood pressure and they are not medical recommendations for you (or anyone else) personally.

            Minerals that are sometimes helpful are calcium, magnesium and potassium. (You do not have to eat bananas to get potassium- it is abundant in meat, melons, fruit and green leafy vegetables.)

            Other compounds- Coenzyme Q-10 (takes up to 3 months to work), pycnogenol (an extract from pine bark)

            Herbs- oolong and green tea, olive extract (also good for treating arthritic pain- it has a compound similar to ibuprofen), stevia extract, and garlic

            Many people have high blood pressure that would go away with regular exercise, weight loss and avoidance of caffeine.

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          • SonOfSam says:

            LOTS of meditation. It works wonders for those of us with anger management issues too :-)

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          • durango kidd says:

            PP: Cinnamon capsules.

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        • michelle says:

          take freshly juiced onion juice with honey (two tbsp onion juice per day) for two weeks, then once a month or so thereafter, it should cure the bp issue.

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      • leeholsen says:

        I agree with that too.

        My grandparents lived thru the great depression and I have never heard any stories from then of what I’m hearing going on in parts of Chicago while things are still relatively good.

        I do not want to imagine the stories of how some of the inner cities will be when the “SHTF”.

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        • Kevin

          Apparently new software managed to cock up the system and this resulted in deposits not showing up, bills not getting paid and money essentially leaving place a but not arriving in place b

          It has affected millions of people but they still do not question beyond yelling atte bank tellers.

          The bank are saying they will make good any losses suffered by customers….why would there be losses? The money has to be there, floating around somewhere in cyberspace…unless it has been stolen of course. Surely if it is just a glitch the money will magically apper when the glitch is sorted?

          Apparently not. The problem is fixed we are told…yet money is still missing. I bank with these people but only leave my bill money in my account, mine is buried, drawn out as soon as it hits the account.

          I never noticed until it was on the news, happily we are well stocked up, have a large dog guarding the cash and carried on as normal.

          There are several cases where people have been closing on a house sale, the money has left their account….and so far has not been seen since.

          I do not believe for a moment this is a simple computer glitch.

          Take care

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          • Kevin
            BBC news dot co dot UK has a full write up. All lowercase no spaces

            Take care

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          • kevin says:

            @burt-Let us know if anything changes.(If they disapear your next check or anything like that) or any new developements you hear about from others.

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          • kevin says:

            @burt- the bbc has lost all credibility with me. I tend to believe hearsay from boots on the ground then any of those “news” channels/papers.

            THE BANKS OWN THEM!!

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          • SonOfSam says:

            “Why would there be losses”? Ask those who had accounts at MF Global where their bars of silver got to. Its really simple: they were fucking STOLEN

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        • SonOfSam says:

          I think some fellow named Ragnar had an Urban Survival book out at some point…maybe that would help?

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      • JayJay says:

        Swift–I don’t see the Rodney King type disturbances coming about if this collapse comes around…what I see is a police force/LEO agencies shooting these thugs.
        It’ll be their homes and their families’ homes that will be in the line of fire…a whole new ballgame this time.
        They probably have weekly seminars updating their operating procedure and when it’s the police chief’s or sheriff’s house/neighborhood, it ain’t gonna be a ‘wait and see’ time. Not this time around.
        I’d say they’re ready for those $300 dollar tennis shoe gang.

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    13. RICH 99 says:

      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click to read it.

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      • The Bible says:

        Rich,
        I mean no disrespect, but do you have some way of telling the future? You seem to be pretty sure in your posts. You always state your opinion as fact.

        Crystal Ball?…Time Machine?….?

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      • Kevin

        I agree regarding the BBC but once or twice recently they have actually reported some news.the reason I mentioned it is it actually admits that accounts have been emptied of money in the report.

        Take care

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      • John W. says:

        Just because you haven’t died yet does not mean you won’t. I would expect that you still have insurance for those left behind that depend on you. A little prepping is just common sense especially in view of the morons that are in charge. Were this twenty years ago I would agree that there is a bit of paranoia here.

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    14. Beefcake says:

      Greece can’t print it’s own money so what they are experiencing is nothing compared to what the US will see once it finally hits here. The US can still print its own money- If we run out of cash to hand out we simply print more. We are still the world’s reserve currency and remain the petrol dollar for most places but that is rapidly coming to an end. The thing that will make it more painful for us is the fact that they are dragging the inflation out as long as they can to lie, cheat, and steal every last dollar out of the game before allowing the dollar to finally die. This slow and painful death of the dollar is a godsend for the prepper since it buys us a little more time, but will be hell for the non-prepper when the train meets the end of the track.

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      • Barn Cat says:

        I think the end of the dollar will be gradual and then sudden. People who watch the dollar index every day will see it coming. Others won’t know until OPEC stops accepting dollars.

        http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/DXY:IND

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        • Kevin2 says:

          Barn Cat

          What is interesting is that as Europe falls apart they sell Euros and buy dollars. That coupled with decreased oil demand from a declining world economy and increasing supply the USD buys more oil (oil peg) and actually gains value. Granted this is relatively short lived as the supply of USDs is increasing almost exponentially with QE 3 just around the corner.

          I doubt that OPEC will abandon the USD as long as the USA is their protective shield. I don’t buy into hyper inflation due to the quasi internal self regulating of the oil peg. I do suspect prices to rise that will effectively reduce the US standard of living by 50% (and in some cases much more depending on income). It’s kinda like what Cubans said about Castro; “He did not lie, we all became equal, equally poor”.

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          • Obtuseangler says:

            Agreed. Europe’s problems strngthen the dollar, at least in the short run. However, last year the Fed was the primay purchaser of treasuries, something like 60%. Meanwhile, the Chinese have been selling our debt and buying record amounts of physical gold. They are entering into agreements with other countries to conduct trade in their own currencies, bypassing conversion to dollars. Operation Twist II is a means of holding the interest on new debt to, once inflation is factored in, negative returns. I suspect the depreciation of the dollar will proceed at an increasing rate until it is parabollic.

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          • Rick:) says:

            When the masses start to realize that US$ and debt denominated in the $ are really intrinsicly worthless tokens backed by NOTHING, that will be a show!
            Currency (dollars) are needed for commerce, but are not a good way to preserve wealth. We have been brainwashed and conditioned very effectively.
            Be out of the way when this unwinds.
            Learn the difference between money and currency, and plan accordingly.

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          • SonOfSam says:

            leaving the euro for the dollar is like moving from your attic to the roof when the flood waters rise. If they keep rising, what then?

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          • Barn Cat says:

            The Federal Reserve has already created $2 trillion in bogus money. Real inflation is 10%. Hyperinflation is a 100% certainty. Eventually OPEC will get tired of being robbed and they’re have no choice but to dump the dollar. OPEC may be the last to dump the dollar but since 90% of the dollars in existence are being held by foreign countries they will eventually have no choice. We can’t keep printing money forever with no consequences.

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    15. Wally Dog says:

      The good news is as it unfolds over years and years, the rural areas of this once great country will tend to band together like we do after tornados, floods and other disasters. They will set up barter economies, and develop a, “you help me & I will help you relationship.” Most of the die off will occur in the major metro areas, as the infrastructure continues to decay and crime and violence escalate to a point where law enforcement will not be able to have much impact. I know peppers here and on other sites have a charitable and giving nature and will be a big part of the solution in the future of the nation. Cheap plentiful oil fueled the engine of our technological growth and exploding population all living on top of each other in mega cities, and when it all comes to an end the useless eaters will find themselves on the outside looking in. As for me and mine, I will continue to add to my stores and build upon the strong foundation I have developed. I look at every day as another day to enjoy life as it is today and prepare for whatever eventuality may befall us. Keep your powder dry, and stay safe.

      Wally Dog “In the underground bunker.”

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      • JustMe says:

        You don’t have “years and years”…

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        • SonOfSam says:

          Surviving is like exercising. You don’t put off getting into shape because the results might not be “needed” right away; you do it because its a good thing in and of itself, right here, right NOW.

          Case in point: I’ve been gardening for years. It started out as a fun inexpensive hobby that was easy to do, and there was always something to learn. If I hadn’t been doing that stuff all those years, I wouldn’t be so darned good at it now. Do I have as much land as I would like? Nope. Could my wife and I completely feed ourselves from what we currently grow? Not yet. But its been a blast, especially learning how to grow potatoes..never did that before this year. Yummy!

          The next step for me is to get a good canner and some mason jars, and store up some of the stuff we’ve grown. Am I going to rush right out and get it today? love to..but can’t, I dont get paid until the end of this week.

          Coffee…my wife and I love coffee. We have bags and bags and bags of whole beans. We have an electric grinder and an electric brewer. Some point soon, I’m getting a manual grinder and a coffee maker that works over a campfire. Will we need this right away? Probably not. Is it a good idea to have this? Well…lets put it this way: if we lose power and can’t make coffee, unless you want to meet Allah or Jesus or whoever right away, don’t come banging on the door too early! There’s nothing uglier than a non caffeinated ex-punk rock New Englander who’s moved to the southlands and acquired weapons and training :-)

          Point is: waiting “years and years” is just plain STUPID. It takes “years and years” to acquire the sort of skills that will be necessary, the kind of skills our grandparents took for granted

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          • jen10 says:

            SAm: Get the manual grinder, skip the campfire coffee maker. I paid top dollar for mine and hate it. It takes FOREVER. Its heavy and it’s huge. Go to Bed Bath and Beyond and buy a 15 dollar plastic french press. Plastic because the glass ones break extremely easy. And the press makes excellent coffee easy.I even have a Tumbler size one for my BOB.

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        • Barn Cat says:

          I think we still have “months and months” but not “years and years.” I think it all hits the fan sometime in the fall.

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      • Tina says:

        I do believe neighbors will help neighbors. I live in a farming community and here people not only plant their fields but the plant along side of the field or roads. It is an unspoken rule that this is for everyone, anyone who needs it. Anyone is free to stop and pick whatever is planted there for themselves.

        Not sure when this started or who was the first to do it but every (food) farmer here does it.

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        • SWIFT says:

          @Tina
          Wow. What a decent,caring community you live in. Good on you and your neighbors. Don’t ever mention your community by name. The USDA will form a SWAT team and pay a visit.

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          • peteropolis says:

            Thats for damn sure. If they come on your property without a warrant, just remember to protect your self, and property, dont let them touch a blade of grass unless falling face first.

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    16. fatty says:

      For those who haven’t already, I’m sure along with myself, many who are aware of Ferfal or Selco would recommend their material. I have purchased Ferfal’s literature and it is very informative to say the least.

      I can’t recommend his book enough. But both are great sources for harsh economic times/survival.

      Anyone who frequents this site can no longer refuse the idea that we’re still sinking.

      Its time to step up and do something about it. It starts as simple as stopping by your local market before or on your way home from work and pick up 5 cans of vegetables, fruits, and or meats.

      http://www.themodernsurvivalist.com/about -ferfal’s book and blogs.

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    17. Beandip242 says:

      So what can a person or family do if they can no longer get scripts they need? How can you stock pile them, or are there alternate sources. For me I need anti-depressants/Anti-Anxiety meds.How would I stock pile these. Say other then knocking over a walgreens as soon as the SHTF. What are the options??????

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      • leeholsen says:

        i have bought drugs online w/out presrciption; i’m sure you can too if you need a stockpile.

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      • Beandip

        There are many in your situation. Please do not interpret my comments as belittling the situation you find yourself in. It is never optimum for someone on these medications to stop them dead, they are drugs that usually require the patient to reduce their dose gradually. Is there any way that you could be assisted by you doctor to start this process? Getting off these drugs can take a while and anything you and your doctor can do to get this going now would be of great benefit to you in the long term.

        When the time comes that your medication is no longer available you will be at a distinct disadvantage from the rapid removal of the drugs from your system, and from increased anxiety after having your senses dulled for a while. You, like the rest of us will need to have your wits about you 24/7 in such a situation, and you will not accomplish that if you are experiencing drug withdrawal

        I would genuinely advise you to speak to your doctor and between you come up with a plan that allows you to look at the possibility of dealing with you depression in other ways, or at a minimum getting the medics to help you cut the amount of these drugs in your system before you have no choice in the matter.

        Take care and good luck

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        • LAG says:

          Burt: That was a great response and thoughtful. Hopefully everyone can work towards that. I work in home health and it is scary to see how many of the seniors are on at least 5 meds, some as many as 25. It’s crazy! We all need to research, and research some more.

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      • UTMom says:

        Beandip,
        That is one of my biggest concerns, as well. I’ve never heard a good answer to this problem!! Anyone????

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      • idahoen says:

        Holy basil is wonderful for anxiety. No dopiness just reduced anxiety. Some are better than others so try a couple of brands out before stocking up.

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      • JayJay says:

        Canada???

        Try that first—my neighbors were told by their doctor to get their prescriptions through canada..not anti-d..but still, it’s worth a try.

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      • Highspeedloafer says:

        Honestly, I would get off of these kinds of drugs A.S.A.P. You will eventually anyway. Why not do it on your terms.

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      • kimintn says:

        Beandip, Burt’s advice is wise. Try to wean off your meds now; it will be easier than having to go cold turkey and really fall apart. There are many herbs available that work as well as, if not better than, conventional meds. Herbs can be stockpiled and stay potent for over a year if kept well. You may need to learn to garden and grow your own herbs. A great resource is The Green Pharmacy by James Duke, Phd. Find a Master Herbalist in your area or online, educate yourself to what you may need. It could be something as simple as a cup or two of tea.

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      • Barn Cat says:

        I don’t mean to be rude here but people on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds need to deal with the underlying problems that have led to their dependence on such medications. At some point you’ll have to cut your daily doses in half then by three quarters.

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      • Paranoid says:

        I take 5 different prescription drugs, here in US. all of them are over the counter in Canada and Mexico. I have good insurance that pays 80%; interestingly I can get them on the Net from Canada for only about 50% more than my out of pocket expense here, without insurance. Please note Congress cannot figure out a way to cut medical costs hummmm.

        i

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    18. evie w says:

      Sort of off topic, but I’m brand new to prepping and I just turned 18 on Saturday. I have $1200 and I want to buy some guns. My brother has a .22 rifle but that’s all we have. Any suggestions?

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      • Evie, here’s an article you can start with: http://www.shtfplan.com/emergency-preparedness/an-introduction-to-shtf-home-defense-guns-and-safety_10292009

        In my opinion, the 22 is a good starter.

        You’ll probably want to add a handgun or two and a shotgun… $1200 should cover at least a handgun and a nice Remington 870 shotgun… and might even leave you enough for an SKS :)

        The other thing to consider is perhaps getting a handgun, shotgun, and then stocking up on ammo with the roughly $200 – $400 you have left…

        Best wishes and thanks for stopping by!

        Mac

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        • Mama Bear says:

          Evie, get your own .22 (Ruger or Henry are American made) and a shotgun. Then look up “Appleseed Project” and attend it with your brother to start learning the fundamentals of marksmanship. You will only be $10; he will be $70 for two full days of instruction on the firing line combined with lessons from the Revolution. And you will each need your own .22.

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          • Isaac Davis says:

            Great wisdom to reference and suggest Apple Seed. Thank you. Teachable attitude. It is not a competition, so listen to the points of instruction, and try to adapt each of them as they are taught and then put into practice. It’s a proverbial sip of water from a fire hose, so just know that it’s a week of education in about 12 hours. http://www.appleseedusa.org

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        • Jim says:

          There is hardly any wrong answers. You have $1200 so you are ahead of the game. I’d say a shotgun and 22 pistol like a Ruger MK III with a short barrell…reliable and oncealable. There are some ammo deals right now that are great. 175 rounds of mil spec 00 buck for $99, 5,250 rounds of cheap federal 22LR for 169.99 is awesome…

          $300 used 12 gauge
          $300 used MK II with an extra magazine
          $100 for 00 buck
          $170 for a case 22lr
          $ 30 for some cleaning gear

          You have $300 to save up for an SKS or better yet a budget AR you buy the components to and build.

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          • Chopulin Colorado says:

            Go for the SKS, the Ar will jam on you at some point in time, the bolt on the AR is just too percise and a fly turd will cause it to jam. Not an SKS! They simply never jam!

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      • kevin says:

        What mac said.

        and

        Glocks are cheap and very reliable. I recomend a glock 21 in 45 acp, or the G17 in 9mm due to the fact that the 31 round mag for the G18 is compatable.

        You can also purchase 22lr conversion kits(for almost all glock models)

        1 pistol frame, 2 calibers.

        And lots of fun!!!

        PS- What ever hand gun you decide to get-

        HAVE NIGHT SIGHTS INSTALLED.

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        • SWIFT says:

          @Kevin
          It has been my experience to never recommend a semi-auto to a beginner. A .357 revolver can get the job done, one hell of a lot safer. With auto’s, too much to learn too soon. Not worth the risk.

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          • Annalise says:

            FWIW, without extra loaded mags, an auto is about as fast to reload as a cap and ball revolver.

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          • kevin says:

            If I could handle one safely(an auto) when I was 12(with supervision), he can at 18(supervised or unsupervised).

            If he is old enough to get drafted into war, in my eyes he is old enough to handle any sword.

            I imagine if he is smart enough to ask for advice on what to buy, he is smart enough to get training from an older adult, and then a pro.

            Glocks are very safe, and with a 22lr conversion-cheap to train with.

            Just sayin.

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          • kevin says:

            I know what your saying,and agree to a point. I learned with a single six when I was 10. He is 18, he can handle it. We got to let the young adults be adults.(cut the cord, so to speek).

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        • VRF says:

          some glocks do not fully support the case..therefore hot loads and re-loads are not a glocks friend

          if you like to reload, or you like to shoot hot loads and than re use the cases , better make sure you have a fully supported breech

          I know a lot of glock lovers hate to hear this, but its true..if you dont know what im talking about, than you dont know

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          • VRF says:

            look up
            Glock Kaboom

            its mostly the glock 40′s..but I wouldnt bother with the 45 either
            so for me the 2 of my favorite cal. .. i wouldnt trust with my life

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          • kevin says:

            Like you said “some” glocks. I have owned 2 G21′s, and 2 G17′s through the years and have NEVER had an issue. (although I do not(reload, or) shoot reloads out of them, a friend reloads for my 44)

            I did not recomend any 40′s.

            I would trust my life with my G21, or my G17, and I do.

            Know what your saying though, I have wread the bad expriences with glocks, but I have also wread bad experiences with the make and model of my truck. 9 years, alot of abuse and I got about a $1000 into repairs. Works for me.

            I am not a glock “lover”, I like the dependability,the high cap,not much oiling(couple drops), easy to clean and disassemble, and the price.

            A perfect “beginners” auto, this guy won’t be reloading and shooting hots right away.

            My single action 44 is my first and ONLY love. You assume much.

            Great points, but on the hateful side.

            Glocks- lovem or hatem. Been like that since they came out, and foreever will it be.

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      • elcid-77 says:

        Don’t blow your wad on just firearms. Plan on spending as much on ammo as you plan on spending for the firearm(yes, singular;$600 will not get you too much today). This is really important if your expirience/proficiancy level is low or non-existant. Find something comfortable for YOU that has a good balance of power/ammo capacity/light weight, and then practice practice practice…beware the man with one gun, he probably knows how to use it!

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        • SonOfSam says:

          I paid 250 for a Yugo SKS and 300 for a 12 gauge Mossberg pump. Both firearms are tough, reliable and useful in a wide variety of scenarios.

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        • DPS says:

          elcid-77,

          Gotta love that last statement “beware the man with one gun, he probably knows how to use it!” priceless bud.

          DPS

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        • kevin says:

          A man with a broken, lost, or jammed weapon is defensless.

          One word- back up.(ok two)

          Since the pistol came out, its been on a belt, with a knife, with rifle in hand.

          Not shooting at your post(pun) Just sayin.

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          • Anonymous says:

            Yes because if you have two you have one and if you have one you have none!

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          • elcid-77 says:

            Agreed, two is one and one is none. However, someone who is just starting a defensive battery is better served by owning one really good firearm instead of two or three marginal pieces. If I had to walk away from my battery save one gun, it would be my Ithica 37 12 ga.; all steel, milled and pinned, easy to fix, and quick to unload 8 rounds with slam fire!

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      • kevin says:

        Forgot to mention a revolver named the judge.

        Shoots the 410 shot shell, and the 45 lc.

        or the “raging” judge that shoots the 2 above, AND the 454 casull

        1 gun + THREE calibers= more fun

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        • AF_Eric says:

          Had a 2.5″ Judge for a while. Fun to shoot, accurate enough, and versatile. Hated cleaning it. Traded it for a Mkiii + accessories. I’m a bit of a .22lr fanatic.

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          • VRF says:

            You said it..accurate “enough”..meaning they kinda suck unless your within 15 feet of your assailant and can squeeze of a few more then one

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          • kevin says:

            I mentioned it FOR the versitality.

            Pasted-

            “Over 90 percent of gunfights occur within 21 feet. More than half of these occur within 5 feet. Most people, when put to the test, can’t even get their guns out in time to defend against a person rushing them from across a large room”.

            Alot of cops get cut up by knives for this reason.

            A pisol is for close range, always has, always will.

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      • evie w says:

        Wow, thanks for all of the replies. Y’all are really helpful!! :D Mama Bear, that Appleseed Project sounds interesting, I’ll definitely look into that.

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        • Mama Bear says:

          Evie, I am psyching myself up to sign up for one in a couple of weeks. Unfortunately, my Henry doesn’t have the sling attachments, so for the marksmanship I think I will have to have them put on, presumably by a gunsmith. I just hate anything messing up the beautiful walnut.

          Good luck with your decision. I have really enjoyed plinking with my .22 and killing some pop cans, whereas I tend to get a little freaked out when shooting the shotgun or my husbands mini 14. Ammo is so cheap for the .22 that you can shoot all day.

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      • durango kidd says:

        Evie: Check prices thoroughly and then hit your local pawn shops before you buy. If you see something you like make a low ball offer.

        Pawn shops are usually only into their merchandise at a 1/3 of market value. It can be a good place to buy a gun if you understand what you are doing.

        Links for you at SHTF Weapons via SHTF America on the upper left hand column here.

        Do your home work. Stretch your dollars.

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        • copperhead says:

          @Evie: What ever you get learn it inside and out. A handgun is used to fight your way back to your battle rifle, which you sould never be with out. If you can, carry 24/7, there is no time out to get your gun before it starts, so carry all the time(if you can)! Look two hits with a 22lr is better than a miss with a 45 acp. Go with what you are comfortable handling. Just remember after the round fly’s you can not bring it back. Go for the kill at all times, wounded may heal to come back another day. But first get a mind set and stick to it. Go luck in your prep’n
          Live Free

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      • DPS says:

        evie,

        I suggest never buy a firearm from a store,shop or pawn shop. Look at buying from just plain people, this way it remains off grid……Also look for common cal, 12 gauge, 9mm, 223, 30-06 and so on that will make your ammo searches much more affordable. And Hi gang sorry so long, kicking prepps into high gear which takes $$$$$$$ so lots of work for me. The best part is all the cabins are on great ranches with lots of hunting.That and the gardening has kept me very busy, I also so started reloading and for those who reload you know how much time it takes. Now if I could just find those damn guns in the lake..

        L8er
        DPS

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      • JustMe says:

        Get an AK, some extra mags, some ammo, and you will still have a few hundred dollars left to get some other prep items. Or,you may be able to find a used AR for the price of a new AK.

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      • SonOfSam says:

        12 gauge pump action Mossberg
        SKS
        Ruger 22 rifle
        a bolt action firing either 308 or 338 Win Mag
        Glock in 40 cal SW
        357 Magnum revolver with at least 4 inch barrel
        LOTS of ammo, make it either JHP or soft point

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      • Kevin2 says:

        evie w

        Due to your obvious limited resources compromises need to be made. Your long arms should be dual purpose with food gathering being the primary, defense secondary. A used Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun and lever action rifle in a deer capable caliber along with a 38 revolver (if legal for you) should be modest in cost and be effective enough.

        The best prepping you can do at your age is get a trade. The natural gas industry is growing and young tradesmen (welder, mechanic, electrician and the like) will see some opportunities. Move to where the work is; don’t wait for it to find you. If you have a knack with fixing cars exploit it.

        I feel sorry for your generation. Us mid 50s and older people we’re presented with some good opportunities while your generation will see it far and few.

        Good luck.

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      • DPS says:

        And just alittle something for the new people.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCBNOFmr4nw

        See preppers do have a sense of humor.

        DPS

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      • Barn Cat says:

        I prefer Mossberg Bantam 500 youth-sized shotguns. They can fire bird shot or slugs so they’re effective at short range or medium range. I like the smaller shotguns because I think they’re more agile for indoor use. I think you have to be careful not to go nuts on buying too many guns.

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      • Paranoid says:

        Get another 22 rifle and a bunch of ammo. If you can find an old nylon 66 they will shoot for years.

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    19. Mr. Blutarsky says:

      This sounds like the New World Order’s dream scenario.

      They’d like to “thin the herd” a bit worldwide. They’d like people to be broke, desperate and more dependent than ever on the government. Especially in Western nations.

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      • SWIFT says:

        What makes them think we will allow them to still rule, after they “thin the herd” and they come up out of their hidey holes? Not in this part of the woods!

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        • Tym says:

          No doubt, they’re first on the list, no? Ok, so you have a compound with 30 armed guards, meet the possee!

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        • Barn Cat says:

          How about the fact that they’ll control the military with all its modern weaponry? The people will be a disorganized mess without modern, secure communications or any type of military organization.

          That’s why the government has been training Russian troops here. They want soldiers who won’t have any trouble firing on US citizens.

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    20. JRS says:

      There is a global depression unfolding.The central banks of the world are in a race to devalue the currencies. The stronger your currency is, the worse off your exports are. The weaker your currency, the better they are. It is a race to the bottom for the last piece of pie. No one will be immune from the effects of the evil globalist elites. Pitchforks and rope will not be good enough for their crimes against the common man.

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      • Clem says:

        Yah, JRS
        That is a good reason to move capitol to real assets. Some cash will be handy for the transition to who knows what. My belief is that the elite bankers will want to continue currency by fiat or something similar, in order to rip everyone off. They will remain in control as long as they are allowed to print currencies. A pitchfork would work though!

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    21. lil bit says:

      True story -
      When a liberal asked me if I was better off now than I was 4 yrs ago- I said Hell No.
      But your husband has a better job.
      Yes, but he drives 14 hrs a day. (non-union 30 yr trucker)
      But you have more money now
      No, my property taxes, water, fuel, and groceries cost more.
      But you paid the off your mortgage
      And now we have lil birds student loan-traded one poison for another. I told her while her offspring are the 1% earners, I have to watch my pennies.
      But you never go anywhere
      Guns, ammo, extra food and supplies cost money, can’t afford to go anywhere.
      (this is all so puzzling to a lib, but in a Lightbulb moment, she blurts out)

      “You’re preparing for the APOCALYPSE!!!”
      Apocalyse, what apocalyse???
      But I don’t think she heard me, she was still laughing hysterically when I left

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      • Wally Dog says:

        You will have the last laugh…

        Wally Dog “In the underground bunker.”

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      • Tym says:

        Strange, I get that from libs and tea partiers.

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      • SWIFT says:

        @lil bit
        Too funny! I love humor, especially when thrown in when the discussion is so serious. Reminds me to “lighten up”. Thanks for the story.

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      • SonOfSam says:

        sounds like you are ALREADY prepared for the apocalypse…sounds like the libtard isn’t prepared for when her nails chip and all the friggin salons are closed. Cant wait to see how her kids react when all the TV shows are cancelled

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    22. copperhead says:

      As long as the people have their pro sports(who laugh all the way to the bank for playing a game), their toy’s, Oh danceing with the stars,etc. they don’t care. These people do not have a clue, to what is happening, but for some of us that keep our eye’s open we see the sh-t that is going down,WE KNOW. The sheeple will come to us after it is all over and demand some food, clothes, etc. I for one have no sympathy for the dumb basta-d’s F-ck’em and don’t feed’em beans. Just keep put’n back more stuff and stock’n up on more ammo. I know I’ll go down but they will know they earned it the hard way. Looks like this year will be it TEOTWAWKI. It will be like going to a differnt planet, more than likely it will be hostile. Me and mine are ready and the place is wired. I’m thankful for the training I got in the Army,that’s were I went to college V. U.( Vietnam University ). So until they pull the plug on us, we will keep going on. But thats just me
      Live Free or Die Fighting for it

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    23. Trying says:

      I’m already in a “depression”. Got laid off, now have a pt job making less per hour with no benifits. Starting prepping right b/4 I was laid off. Better late than never.

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    24. Satori says:

      the average American family is simply not prepared for much of anything

      http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-savings-20120625,0,7213602.story

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    25. The Bible says:

      For many people, after Rome fell, life went on as usual, or even got better.

      The greatest Jewish Theologians waiting for 2,000 years for the Messiah, missed the coming of Christ.

      My great grandma lived on a farm during the Civil War and never missed a meal, or saw a soldier from either side.

      Let he who has ears, hear, let he who has eyes, see.

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      • leeholsen says:

        i’m ready.

        now, i’m just trying to build up some extra for family that may need help.

        found out my step dad built his house to run on propane generator if needed. i think he will be finding new neighbors the first time he starts it up.

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      • kevin says:

        @BIBLE- It looks like you know the good book pretty well.

        Could you explain to the haters out there-

        WHY some arabs are semites.
        WHY not all jews are semites
        WHY ALL palastinians are semites.
        WHY God broke his pact with the isrealites.

        They call me anti-semite because I point these things out.

        I am confused on WHICH arabs I am supposed to hate.

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        • The Bible says:

          @Kevin
          If my memory serves me, semites refers to being a decendant of Noah’s som Shem. Arabs are decended from Abraham and thus semites.
          Not all Jews, are semites, as some come from other races. Like in Miami there are Cuban Jews called Jewbans, or German Jews like Karl Marx. The horn of Africa also has black Jews.

          Palastinians are not a race, but a made up group of people, just like their country.

          Just like there are Churches and “The True Church”, there are Jews, and “True Jews”.

          The Kingdom of God is in the heart, love your neighbor as yourself.

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          • kevin says:

            @bible.
            The names in the bible have faded through the years(in my memory)

            WHAT geographical location were these semites located?(its in there). What geographical location did this palastinian “group” of people live? Not all arbs are from that area, so I see(and others) not all arabs as semites.

            Who broke the pact with God? Has that pact ever been renewed?

            I have NO hate towards anyone. These are questions. Us americans have been brainwashed, we ALWAYS have to say- I’m not racist but….., or I’m not a homophobe but…, I’m not an anti-semite but……., and on and on.

            I am just sick and tired of hearing that phrase anti-semite.

            I am sick and tired of being told I have to support a nation that spied on us(pollard),sold our secrets to the ussr,nuclear armed but has never signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, attacked the liberty,payoff and bribe our politicians, and treat other humans as animals(the palastinians).

            The media is full of propaganda trying to have the american people hate muslims, and if you don’t support isreali actions, you are labeled anti-semite(or spreading hate)

            Sorry for venting at you(and I am NOT trying to convince you of anything)

            @all the haters- I know, I know, I’m an anti-semite.

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        • Barn Cat says:

          God isn’t done with Israel. Israel was punished for not recognizing Jesus as Messiah. God will protect Israel as He has done since it became a nation again in 1948.

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      • Merree says:

        The Bible–
        On the other hand, one family in Virginia was worried that they would be in the thick of the Civil War so they moved to a place that was more peaceful. A quiet little place called Gettysburg. It can be hard to predict what will work and what won’t.

        Beandip242—
        There are several ways to build up supplies of medications. The first is to see if your doctor will allow you to get an extra bottle of tablets to set aside. Your insurance won’t cover it but you can go to a pharmacy and buy it on your own. You can also look for Canadian pharmacies to buy medications. They are sometimes cheaper than US prices.

        You could also set aside one or two of your pills out of each bottle to build up a stockpile.

        The other option is to explore alternative remedies. For example, anti anxiety medications are hard to stockpile because they are so heavily restricted. Valerian root works for some people and it is used in Europe as a mainstream treatment for anxiety. It may take a little research but there are options for most common illnesses.

        You might research herbal remedies and look for an alternative to help. I usually research a variety of texts but my final stop is the “Natural Medicines Comprehensive Database” by the editors of the Pharmacist’s Letter and the Prescriber’s Letter. It lists herbal remedies, whether they are safe and effective and potential interactions with other treatments. I think it might be available in some libraries.

        It can also be helpful to look at alternative treatments. Depression sometimes responds to light therapy or to exercise. Anxiety can be diminished with some mental and behavioral systems.

        I think we will be forced into a situation where many people will have to start taking responsibility for their own health. There will be fewer resources to go around and people who make foolish choices about self care may end up suffering the consequences that they are often shielded from nowdays.

        Medical care is already facing difficulties and these will not go away, no matter how the Supreme court decides. Primary care doctors have seen their payments by insurers decrease back to the levels of 2001 (and in some cases back to the 1990s). I attended a state medical meeting where the keynote speaker reported that physicians had maintained their income by seeing more patients per hour and by working longer hours but the generally feeling was that there was no where left to compensate. These are not the wealthy surgeons but the people providing regular medical care to the general population. The general mood was frustrated and resigned and the older docs were planning to move up their retirement.

        The other thing to think about is that most modern physicians have only trained in high tech environments. How many of them will be able to keep functioning without the electronic gadgets and modern testing?

        And the laws prohibit offices from doing a lot of testing and procedures without rigid oversight. Helping someone out by doing an in office blood analysis instead of sending the blood to a lab could bring the authorities in to shut down the office and imprison the medical staff. Even if someone has the knowledge to help out, who would be willing to take that kind of a risk?

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        • Tym says:

          I’ll second the valerian root. I was incredibly surprised how effective it is. Two of those incredibly stinky caps gets me a good night sleep.

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      • Rick:) says:

        The difference is, when you live in the “stone age” and things go “stone age”, not such a big shock.
        If we go “stone age”, even for a limited time, it’s going to be somewhat inconvienent.

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      • kevin says:

        Great post!, it is good to read up lifting posts Bible.

        BUT-(I’m gloom, and doom)

        Allways 2 sides of a coin.

        When Rome did not pay that silver, it was sacked, by the germans(if my memory, is correct. I think that group of barbarians were from there) life ended, got worse for many in their path.

        My family was in missouri. It was a blood bath. Many burnt out and killed. Once the killing started it was revenge from there on out.

        Eye for an eye!

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    26. Susan says:

      There is no way it’s going to take 10 years for the US to collapse. As soon as OPEC quits taking the greenback it will be all over. China and Russia have already stated they want a different currency, it won’t be long now. People get ready, get self sufficient, teach your kids some skills, they are gonna need them.

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    27. CelticNana says:

      The articles on this site, and the comments, are the link to reality that I depend on. So many people don’t read between the lines, or don’t realize that what’s not being reported is more important than the pap the media spews out every night. People see gas prices coming down (at least here) and think all will be rosy again. Nonsense. We’re adding more to our supplies every week and studying how to make do. It’s a weird sort of calm, knowing that it’s coming and knowing that we will do the best we can. Keep prepping, and misneach fianna.

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    28. Slappy says:

      Several years ago a close friend gave me a copy of Sir John Glubb’s essay “The Fate of Empires”.

      It scared the living shit out of me and opened my eyes to what is really going on in the U.S., and other countries for that matter.

      Most folks who read and comment here will not learn as much from it as I did, because you already know. But, I still recommend reading it if you have not already. Several PDF copies are available at no cost on the internet; just do a quick search.

      It’s funny that a guy (Glubb) who was essentially a military officer and politician could see the writing on the wall in the 1940s…..

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    29. Mad-Max says:

      Our problems are more complex than we think. Even us so called well informed people have no idea what’s really wrong with the economy. It’s much deeper than financial. That’s why the politicians and bankers can’t solve it. Protesting isn’t going to work either because protesting is not a solution. It will only make things more unstable while increasing the speed of our collapse.

      “Be Smart!” –
      FIGHT THE CAUSE – NOT THE SYMPTOM

      U.S. Citizens
      Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( http://revolution2.osixs.org )

      Non U.S. Citizens
      Read “Common Sense 3.2” at ( http://SaveTheWorldNow.osixs.org )

      Do you know what real freedom is? http://WeAreFree.osixs.org
      We don’t have to live like this anymore.

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      • durango kidd says:

        Mad Max: You are not well informed at all.

        First your “revolution” is communist. Communism doesn’t work and never will. That is why it has been shit canned to the ash heap of history.

        Second, you labor under the misconception that politicians and bankers cannot solve our financial problems because they are too “complex”.

        The politicians are controlled by the bankers and the bankers know EXACTLY what they are doing, and what they are doing to US. They only want US to believe that they are incompetent, because their actions are TREASONOUS!

        The penalty for incompetence in office is a slap on the hand and termination. The penalty for treason is death.

        OWTFH!

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    30. I am affraid before it’s all over we will find ourselves in the dark sitting around campfires to keep warm eating rat meat on a stick or the neighbors cat and when that’s gone it will be the neighbors kid. (Sorry for the kid).
      Prepare like never before, time is short, see:
      surviving12-21-2012.blogspot.com

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    31. Ohcumgache says:

      So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and Demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life, Beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and Its purpose in the service of your people. Prepare a noble death song for the day when you go over the great divide. Always give a word or a sign of salute when meeting or passing a friend, Even a stranger, when in a lonely place. Show respect to all people and Bow to none. When you arise in the morning, give thanks for the food and For the joy of living. If you see no reason for giving thanks, The fault lies only in yourself. Abuse no one and nothing, For abuse turns the wise ones to fools and robs the spirit of its vision. When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts Are filled with fear of death, so that when their time comes They weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again In a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home.”

      Tecumseh – Shawnee-(1768-1813)

      Today is no different than tomorrow in most ways. Today you are alive and if you awake tomorrow, you will have survived this day. None of us knows what the next day, next hour or even the next second will bring upon our lives, so why not live to the fullest and tackle each day and each challenge as it presents itself. Meanwhile, live your life the same way every day, with good intentions and hope for tomorrow. It is wise to prepare your home and your pantry for hard times, do not dwell on the negative but feel content with your decisions.

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      • JustMe says:

        Not that many people left with that much courage and calm.

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      • Barn Cat says:

        Tecumseh don’t know enough about religion. Everyone is a sinner in need of a savior. If you reject Christ it doesn’t matter what you believe because everyone who does that will spend eternity in hell.

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    32. Withoutabisquit says:

      I have worked in an inner city school system – not a large metropolitan city,just an average size town – it will not be pretty. This summer I am doing a summer program – it gets worse every year. These “children” will tell you straight up that they are entitled to everything and they will come and “get it from yo house if I want to.” Their hearts are as cold and vicious as any hardened criminal, the only difference is the age. My thoughts are: if the children are like this, what are their parents capablbe of? God help us all, if truly the SHTF. I wish I lived in Montana.

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      • DPS says:

        Withoutabisquit,

        You will see a big change in these cold hearted kids and parents when SHTF, After they see some of there friends get shot or worse they will change. If they don’t then chances are the will not make it long..

        DPS

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      • Government Guy says:

        They have been desensitized to violence:
        Modern Warfare 7 – Shit Hit the Fan
        Available for Wii and XBox 360

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        • JRS says:

          ^^^^This….This is why they will make excellent drone operators. All the killing done “behind the screen”. No blood, no guts…..just another vid-e-ya game.

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      • Obtuseangler says:

        Yup. I watched kids change over the years I taught school. The toughest to motivate were those whose parents were the least productive. These same kids inevitably received free lunches and breakfasts. They believed that, no matter what, they would be taken care of by someone else. And they did not appreciate what they were given. They seemed to feel entitled. It seems that when there is no fear of failure, there is no desire for success.

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        • JayJay says:

          I tried to explain the welfare situation to my niece–that someone worked for those dollars she, her mother, and grandmother received and squandered every month and the person working took home a much smaller check each week because part of their wages/money was taken to ‘give’ to them—-haven’t heard from her since..
          Think it got through???

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      • peteropolis says:

        Montana Rocks!

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    33. ARSheepDog says:

      Let me see if I have this straight. Moody’s downgraded 15 banks, 1-3 notches last week and 28 Spanish banks, 1-4 notches this week. What should we be concerned about?

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    34. durango kidd says:

      My peeps, do not use Greece as a yard stick to compare with America. They are as different as apples and oranges; night and day. That comparison is a false analogy.

      It does not follow that what happens in Greece happens in the USA. Bullshit.

      What is happening in Europe and with Greece is an attempt by the GB to install one sovereign and one financial system: just like WE already have. The GB will exacerbate that problem until the sovereigns fall in line.

      Europe will be a financial drag on US, but it will not create a meltdown here.

      America with all of its problems is still the best place in the world to be, and WE only have a debt to GDP ratio of 100%. This ratio is slightly higher than China and Germany but well within OUR ability to manage the debt.

      It was higher after WWII.

      Greece had a debt to GDP ratio over 400% when their problems started.

      I would advise all of you to pay attention to Business Insider every day. It has produced some very interesting financial charts that do show an improving financial picture for America’s future.

      Thankfully, not enough to get O’bummer re-elected, but some progress is being made. That said I do believe that WE will experience a second small dip between now and the end of the year so the GB’s can oust O’bummer and insert Romney.

      Either way the Globalists in government continue the march to One World Government, controlled by corporatism. If you can’t beat them, join them; start a corporation, even an offshore corporation and get your tax benefits like the rest of them.

      That, or engage your employees rather than be enslaved by them. Its OUR choice.

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      • Rick:) says:

        Durango Kidd, respectfully; at the end of WW11, the rest of the world lay in ruins and we were a manufacturing giant.
        Also, the systemic risk associated with a weak Europe will not let us escape unscathed. The US has been subsidised by the rest of the world since Brenton-Woods. They had no choice but to dance to our tune, because of he Dollar’s reserve status.
        It’s my belief the Euro was created to escape this stranglehold. Their problem is, too many of the member states cheated and lied about their internals. They are running out of “other people’s money”.
        Our monetary system is past due the end of it’s timeline. At the very least, we’re 10-20 years past the time it should have collapsed, were it not for us(the US) screwing the rest of the world.
        By the way, I love my country. I have just recently realized through study what the facts are, and am caling a spade a spade.
        The jig is soon up.

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        • Kevin2 says:

          Rick

          You are so correct. Our present situation compares closer to Europe then the long lost post WWII USA. When you have virtually the only intact industrial base and 90+ % of the worlds gold and export oil and feed the world it’s pretty hard to screw that up but even with that they managed to do it (on purpose I might add). It took decades to bleed off that wealth and wealth creation to the world.

          The differences today are so glaring that it would be more accurate if the US changed it’s name for clarification because too many look back at the USA they we’re taught about in school while looking to predict what is forward. The three decades of post WWII prosperity were an aberration resulting from the war. Someone born in 1936 caught the best years having little memory of the great depression while being too young for Korea and too old for Vietnam. By the time the opportunities we’re exported to the world they made theirs and we’re retired.

          Things be a different today…………..

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          • durango kidd says:

            Kevin: Yes, things be different today for those individuals who 1. are not financially astute; and 2. not financially prepared.

            Individually, now is a good time to borrow as much money as you possibly can, leverage it into hard assets or intellectual capital; so that when that debt is repaid it is repaid with cheaper dollars as the dollar declines in value.

            Collectively, it is time for the nation to begin to pay down its public debt just as it has done many times in the past; with cheaper dollars.

            That is the economic history of the USA.

            The USA is not Greece and it is not Europe. No it will not remain “unscathed”, but it is not going to melt down either. Neither will Europe.

            WE had the financial collapse. It is over.

            Romney will get elected and institute a pro business agenda with initiatives and tax incentives to stimulate small business.

            No melt down in America.

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          • Kevin2 says:

            durango kidd

            I ran my finances the opposite of what you propose and it worked THEN. I have to admit that today grabbing as much of the low interest money and buy hard assets is a good idea however I made mine and I’m not switching gears with risk. Unfortunately too many are just getting buy and their credit is shot having wasted it on buying the gizmo of the day.

            The US will not melt down but it’s sure going to get damn hot. I’m expecting a large drop in the standard of living to fuel a lot of social problems up to and including senseless violence. Beware of mad men rising from the ashes as the ignorant look for someone to blame.

            “WE had the financial collapse. It is over.”

            This we disagree on. Round two is coming and it will exceed round one in both duration and intensity.

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        • MXLord327 says:

          Bretton-Woods not Brenton. It’s now a nice ski resort in northern New Hampshire…

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      • Tym says:

        The day I move my company overseas I hope someone puts a bullet between my eyes, like any traitor deserves. And I sure as hell won’t vote for either side of Obamney the Oligarch. Concede if you will.

        Unless we step back from globalism and put the interests of our nation first we will be part of the NWO global community and unless you have an advanced degree your position is much lower down the pole than you think on this side of the globe. Or, move to one of the areas that does your kind of work, and bow to your master.

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        • durango kidd says:

          Tym: I appreciate what you say and I agree with you totally, BUT the reality is that the Globalists are quickly consolidating their program of world corporate domination; as evidenced by their latest efforts: The Trans Pacific Partnership.

          Unless and until 90 million American gun owners and patriots lead the charge to recapture the American government from the NWO Globalists and reverse “FREE TRADE”; Global Corporatism will continue to put the nails in the coffin of the American economy.

          Then those who wish to excel financially (like the next generation) must partake of global trade in some fashion and adapt to the financial reality that globalism presents.

          Engage your employees or be impoverished by them.

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      • durango kidd says:

        Rick:) Here is what you don’t understand: the rest of the world has not been subsidizing US.That is what the LSM as a propaganda tool of the GB want you to believe.

        WE, US, American taxpayers, have been subsidizing the rest of the world. First with the Marshall Plan after WWII, then with direct foreign aid, and for the past 40 years American taxpayers have been subsiding the rest of the world by OUR rebuilding of Europe and Asia.

        The economic arm of the NWO GB’s developed control over the banking systems of the world and those economies by using American depositor funds to build factories in Europe, Japan, Mexico, and now China for the global investment class.

        Then the GB’s transferred production offshore to exploit labor and currencies to achieve much higher profit margins, increase market participation in their program and expand their financial empire.

        This was accomplished using an ARTIFICIALLY strong dollar and weak foreign currencies to transfer factories, jobs, and wealth from America, offshore.

        That process continues to this day in China, where the process will soon reverse, or at least moderate, and then the process will be implemented in Turkey, India, and Indonesia.

        The “systemic risk” of Europe is also artificial and is designed to bring European sovereigns under the GB’s financial control.

        The Dollar is far from used up (which is why it is artificially high). There are wars to be fought, nations to be pacified, and economies to control.

        FRN’s are the weapon of choice.

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      • Gravlore says:

        Who is going to keep the world economy afloat when the majority of countries are broke? Here in Canada we have resources but if nobody can pay or is buying we will not stay afloat either. If they devalue to pay debts and the worker makes more then it could work, but not for the savers.

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        • durango kidd says:

          No it doesn’t work for the “savers” as retirees living on fixed incomes and revenue from money market funds will attest: which is why MM funds have been bleeding from withdrawals, and why I urged people to borrow whatever they could afford to borrow and leverage it into hard assets or intellectual capital (advanced education) that will appreciate in value.

          This kind of stimulus and tax policy encourages consumption: ie “growth”.

          Cycles come and go. Inflation rises and falls just like the money supply which expands and contracts; as do jobs, income, and wealth. New subdivisions are started, neighborhoods mature, cities evolve. Technology initiates change.

          This too will pass.

          There is lots of pent up demand from young people all over the world looking to fulfill their aspirations just as WE did. This is the way of the world.

          Adapt or die.

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    35. carynverell says:

      many people do not see what is happening here and for a good reason….our government passes out those ebt cards instead of food stamps in order that those using them do not experience the “shame” of having to rely on foodstamps. sadlly, with with inflation of prices, and shortages, that ebt card does not buy as much as it used to either..most folks would be better off if they could line up for bread and soup or commodities-oh, i forgot-america sends all that stuff overseas to feed the hungry and does not stockpile like they used to.. yep, i agree that we are already in the midst of collapsing…and i also believe it will be a long time before we recover from this depression.

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      • Aaron says:

        I wish they’d get rid of those damn EBT food cards so people could feel the humility of using a handout instead of pretending nothing is wrong. The longer we continue on that mindset the faster they get worse. People cannot come to the breaking point of their being overly prideful and show some fucking humility. Instead of being happy they can get food they worry about someone seeing them go into a food bank or using a food stamp. Humility, gracefulness, kindness, honor and many other things of that nature are dead in many people and they need to be rejuvenated for the sake of mankind.

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        • Barn Cat says:

          They used to issue you food stamps and there were a lot of things you couldn’t buy with food stamps. My mother got food stamps when I was growing up. She wasn’t very good with money so even with food stamps there were times when there wasn’t much to eat in the house.

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        • Gravlore says:

          Better to spend money on EBT than the military. Now thats a waste….no wait they both suck!

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        • durango kidd says:

          Aaron: Feed the poor or the poor will feed on you. The PTB subsidize the poor via food stamps to suppress violence, chaos, and revolution.

          Hungry people are desperate people. Desperate people do desperate things.

          As far as they are concerned, it is better to feed the poor with YOUR tax dollars than their wealth. That’s why the Uber Rich pay less than 20% on their income and the working poor pay 25-30%.

          Time for a flat tax all around with NO deductions except mortgages but with a cap on them.

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    36. Iowa says:

      Great simple overview of the truth Mac, good article.

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      • JustMe says:

        “Political economy came into being as a natural result of the expansion of trade, and with its appearance elementary, unscientific huckstering was replaced by a developed system of licensed fraud, an entire science of enrichment.”-Friedrich Engels

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        • Barn Cat says:

          That’s priceless. That was written by the founder of communism. Communism was a complete fraud. It was a false religion that murdered 100 million heretics.

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          • JustMe says:

            Engel’s statement fits what is happening to a T, but what is not mentioned, is that it’s always orchestrated and does not happen on it’s own. Sadly, people still buy into communism.

            People have been well conditioned from cradle to grave to accept the nihlistic vision of communism as some sort of liberating panacea. The day communism’s, and the parasite’s masks come off, people will be horrified at what they have accepted…

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    37. BlackCat says:

      The beginning of the global economic collapse is here, most assuredly coming to America soon. I wonder how there will even be a recovery when we are sitting around campfires, eating the last wild creatures available for food. What then? Where will all preppers find the necessary life-giving water to raise their food crops, keep themselves hydrated? When anarchy reigns supreme, what happens when one is out of food, out of ammo, and no where to run? If one cannot raise his own food, make his own ammo, keep his own water supply plentiful and purified, what then? I mean no disrespect here, I’m just curious how much I will need to do to survive total chaos.

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      • JustMe says:

        Valid points and questions. But, there are only a couple other alternatives, niether of which are any better. If we end up in the postition you have proposed, then we will at least have tried our best to suvive and do what was right.

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      • Zoltanne says:

        BlackCat, Go deeper. Study Native culture and primitive ways.

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        • Barn Cat says:

          There’s nothing to learn from the culture of pagans. Once you know Christ and Christ has set you free there’s no reason to go back into bondage.

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          • Mama Bear says:

            Barncat, that’s kind of a narrow-minded little answer. Most of the greatest thinkers of Christianity would call BS on that, including St. Paul, St. Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Luther, Erasmus, St. Thomas More, all of which were profoundly influenced by Plato and Aristotle, both Greek pagans. Every single letter of Paul, and in fact the Gospel of John, was heavily influenced by Plato and in fact can be regarded as NeoPlatonic texts. The fact that so much of the New Testament was so elegantly wrought in Platonic language was a huge factor in converting the Greeks and Romans. It was the Holy Spirit at work, ensuring that the message of Christ came out in “the fullness of time” when the world was united by Rome and their minds prepared by Plato.

            Just like Christians thought that the Greek philosophers saw Christ “through a glass darkly,” Native American recognition of a Great Spirit would make a persuasive case for the same argument.

            Besides, last time I checked, even Christ setting me free hasn’t taught me what is edible in the Midwestern woods. Studying the folkways of the Native tribe in my area CAN taught me what is edible, as well as how to store it, knap flint to catch it, etc.

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    38. SmokinOkie says:

      Stumblimg Toward Armageddon

      1933- America elects its first (somewhat)openly socialist president. Congress begins the process of neutering itself and does basically…nothing. Americans are worried and scared. Some are even hungry, and they willingly accept the transformation of their economy. And their way of life.
      On the plus side- America has Al Jolson and Shirley Temple to keep them entertained. But,
      The fuse is lit…

      1964- Lyndon (may he burn in hell forever) Johnson declares ‘War On Poverty.’ 40 years later, it is evident that poverty won. Still, congress got to spend zillions of dollars of other people’s money, and took no responsibility while doing it.
      The good news is- The Beatles have arrived on the scene. Soon, everything will be groovy. But,
      ssssss the fuse gets shorter…

      2008- Following the stunningly socialist/globalist moves of a republican president, America finally fesses up and elects…an avowed marxist to the white house! The ‘Fundamental Transformation’ shifts into high gear. If it weren’t for Hannity and Limbaugh, most Americans would feel we had no leadership at all. Congress is so completely bought off, soulless and incompetent, that’s how desperate we are for a leader. We’ll look for them on the am dial.
      On the plus side, there is an ‘off’ button on the radio when Limbaugh gets on our nerves. And- here’s the best part: we can all buy a new Ipad, xbox, game whateverthehellyoucallit on credit! We can charge it and pay later! Just like we do with our $400 shoes named after whichever athlete/celebrity is popular this week. And our flat screen televisions. And our McMansions. Life is great! Sort of. If you just keep your eyes closed and accept that Reality is a show on tv, not something that actually happens in real life.
      Still, we hear the high pitched hiss of the fuse…and it gets closer and closer to the detonat-

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    39. Anonymous says:

      “But what happens when it comes to the United States? When our national debt obligations become un-serviceable?”

      You’re dead on the money with that, Mac. The hell of it is, the only reason that this has yet to occur is that US interest rates are at 0.25%. If they were to rise to, oh, say, 1% the debt payment requirement would quadruple from where it is today. That would collapse the system and don’t think for a second that our political and financial leaders are unaware of it. Virtually all of their actions since 2008 have been to buy time and most likely that was time for them to prepare for the SHTF.

      The time will soon be upon us all when being independent will be an absolute necessity, rather than a figurative call to arms. This does not happen over-night. It takes years to thoroughly prepare for what is coming. I hope and pray that all my brothers and sisters out there are not wasting any of the time that we all have. Use it well, for when it is gone we will all be teetering on the brink of the abyss.

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      • JRS says:

        ” When our national debt obligations become unserviceable” While this will happen in many countries it may take a long time to happen here. When a country can’t sell bonds to service their debt, they have to sell them at ever increasing rates. their debt servicing becomes unmanageable then. With our own ” unlimited Fed money” the TBTF banks borrow money from the Fed discount window and park that money in treasury bonds at a slightly higher rate.They skim a small percentage of interest from “the taxpayer” but stll make money.With the Fed indirectly buying treasuries( govt debt) at over60% of the sales, the bond vigilantes never get a chance to demand higher rates. They have effectively eliminated the free market valuation of the DC corp debt. This could go on for a long time. While the global elites may seem dumb, they are brilliantly evil. Hang em all

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        • JRS says:

          BTW this is why IMO they have been designated as “to big too fail” so they will always be propped up to buy Treasuries to let the bought off gov continue their wasteful ways.

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    40. 41MagMan says:

      “But what happens when it comes to the United States? When our national debt obligations become un-serviceable?”

      You’re dead on the money with that, Mac. The hell of it is, the only reason that this has yet to occur is that US interest rates are at 0.25%. If they were to rise to, oh, say, 1% the debt payment requirement would quadruple from where it is today. That would collapse the system and don’t think for a second that our political and financial leaders are unaware of it. Virtually all of their actions since 2008 have been to buy time and most likely that was time for them to prepare for the SHTF.

      The time will soon be upon us all when being independent will be an absolute necessity, rather than a figurative call to arms. This does not happen over-night. It takes years to thoroughly prepare for what is coming. I hope and pray that all my brothers and sisters out there are not wasting any of the time that we all have. Use it well, for when it is gone we will all be teetering on the brink of the abyss.

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    41. JustMe says:

      The orchestrated financial crisis of the early 1900′s paved the way for the treasonous act of 1913, which put this country on the path to true “indentured (economic) servitude”.

      The created and managed “Great Depression” of 1929 was designed to break people’s spirits and wills enough so they would accept communist (masked as “democratic socialism”) control over thier lives.

      The currency crisis being instigated around the world, seems designed to break people just a little more. If we only had an economic crisis to deal with, it would be easily survivable. But, we do not…

      We have a confluence of events, coming from all directions. Mass illegal imigration, aided and abetted by those determined to detroy America. Our air, water, food, medicines, and our minds, are poisoned by parasites who are bent on our destruction. The list of bad things going down around us is long…

      I still look on in awe, how so many people remain so blissfully, willfully ignorant, unable to face the realities changing around them. Not a day goes by, that I think this must be how it is at the end of every great civilization.

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    42. J_Ct says:

      This must be what Ayn Rand meant by “but you can’t ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.”
      Of course, the excuses given by the politicos and Euroclowns won’t involve implicating themselves.

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    43. Southern Gal says:

      Long time reader, first time commenting…

      With all of the issues with the banks, I went to my bank over the weekend to get $800 in cash. You would have thought that I was withdrawing $10,000 based upon the reaction of the teller. I was repeatedly asked, “Why do you need this much cash? What are you going to do with it?” Since when do I have to explain why I need MY MONEY?!?

      Has anyone else experienced anything like this?

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      • Highspeedloafer says:

        I just tell em it’s none of your buisness.

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      • Zoltanne says:

        #1 Recall the “see something, say something” indoctrination?

        #2 Never withdraw $10,000, there is a mandatory paper trail.

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        • Southern Gal says:

          So what is the best way to try to get my money out of the bank without raising any alarms? Go to the ATM everyday and withdraw $300 until I empty my account?

          What are other readers here doing? Unfortunately I have waited until now to try to start keeping only what’s necessary in my bank to just cover bills.

          Ideas anyone?

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          • JRS says:

            If you want the cash you could stop direct deposit of your paycheck ( assuming that’s what you do) and physically deposit as needed. While we still have direct deposit of paychecks, I do occasionally go and siphon off 2 or 300 dollars at a clip. They don’t flinch at that.

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          • Zoltanne says:

            Southern Gal, we moved money from a local bank to a credit union via checks and varied the amounts (ie $7,000, $8,500, $9,000) — checks leave a money trail. Three times I have withdrawn cash just under $10K and one time, I forgot and the teller ‘reminded’ me that I might want to alter the withdraw amount.

            It’s your money and not their business, and as long as you withdraw under $10K, there is not supposed to be a money trail. Don’t act frightened or “suspicious”. Remember #1.

            We have PM, junk silver, cash on hand, and cash in a money market, no more stocks, no more CDs. A regular checking account is only to pay monthly bills.

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          • Kevin2 says:

            Historically one put money in the bank to:

            A. Keep it safe
            B. Collect interest

            (B) is now laughable and (A) is surely questionable.

            In the end regarding currency they always have one up on you. They determine what is legal currency. Real simply they issue new money. The US Military would do in in occupied countries with changing script to thwart the black market.

            On (pick a date) the old FRNs are no longer valid and these new notes are. You have 30 days to exchange old paper for new paper. We confiscate what we THINK came from illegal proceeds. The public at large in poverty having nothing themselves cheers them on , ” I have nothing and so should they”.

            They don’t like PMs because they can’t do the above.

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        • Kevin2 says:

          Zoltanne

          I read about a case where an individual consistently withdrew some sum slightly less than the $10,000 that is reported. Although the money was perfectly legal and taxed the person was charged and convicted of conspiracy for avoiding the reporting laws.

          The law does not come with a package of illegality. Apparently attempting to avoid the law is in itself criminal.

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          • Kevin2 says:

            In the convoluted world we now live in I suspect giving advice on how to avoid a present law (as opposed to a law not yet on the books) is probably a criminal act of conspiracy in and of itself.

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          • kevin says:

            @kev-Does this mean if I drive 74 mph in a 75 mph, I will start getting tickets for avoiding speeding tickets?

            What a joke our country has become.

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          • Zoltanne says:

            Kevin2 and Kevin, sounds similar to Arizona’s SB1070 ruling.

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          • Kevin2 says:

            kevin

            Zoltanne

            A jury of his peers agreed that the individual was intentionally systematically avoiding the reporting requirements.

            Maybe with some luck (na a lot of luck) these numbskulls will take a page from Nancy Reagan and “Just say no”. It’s been done before as the DA in NYC by 1928 stopped charging speakeasy owners because they could not get a conviction. Jury’s still convicted gangsters but not mere speakeasy owners.

            Hopefully jury’s will increasingly decide that government has over reached and the increasing laws are not protecting them but actually hurting them.

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          • Kevin2 says:

            kevin

            Zoltanne

            A jury of his peers agreed that the individual was intentionally systematically avoiding the reporting requirements.

            Maybe with some luck (na a lot of luck) these numbskulls will take a page from Nancy Reagan and “Just say no”. It’s been done before as the DA in NYC by 1928 stopped charging speakeasy owners because they could not get a conviction. Jury’s still convicted gangsters but not mere speakeasy owners.

            Hopefully jury’s will increasingly decide that government has over reached and the increasing laws are not protecting them but actually hurting them.

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      • Marigold says:

        First time posting. I appreciate you all for contributing to this very informative and helpful blog. Based on what I have learned (mostly here) I think I am off to a good start on my preps. Thank you!

        Southern Gal:
        Having worked as a teller in the past (15 years ago), I find that your teller’s reaction strange, unprofessional and inappropriate.
        Within the past week I went to my bank and asked to withdraw $2k cash. I said I knew it was a large cash withdrawal and that I could break up the withdrawal over a couple of days.The teller said, “We have it. You can much as you want.” A few days later I went to a different branch and withdrew $100.00 in $1.00 notes; no reaction.
        I hope that helps.

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      • Smokey says:

        Not here. I routinely withdraw similar sums, no questions asked. Sometimes I make conversation about working on the house, or paying the taxes, otherwise, chat about the weather or the weekend.

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    44. Anonymous says:

      Pom Poms!?! What about the cheerleaders on trampolines?

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    45. possee says:

      AHHH
      The slow incremental collapse ever creeping upon us.

      Gas drops to 340 and everyone is elated once again..

      Happy days are here again!

      meanwhile.. Americans losing their jobs via 1st time claims hovers @ 380,000 per week over the last months..
      1.4 million jobs lost per month!

      Potus parties on ..golfs and in campaign mode.
      Obamney/mittens is silent except to promise new jobs.
      The Supremes strike down immigration law for Arizona.
      Food prices rising exponentially..

      Better watch America’s got talent and be done with it.

      The Titanic has listed and everyone’s jumping aboard the Lusitania,,

      possee

      DHS threatens no enforcement of federal law

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    46. Withoutabisquit says:

      DPS,
      You are correct, they will not last long. If all our fears come to pass, there will be a lot dead adolescents. So many have absolutely no morals, no guidance, and no conscience. Anyone who has not worked or had contact with our inner cities, have no clue. The “inner city” I have worked has less than 100,000 people – hardly urban. People do not believe me when I tell them what I see and hear from primary school kids. A metropolitan city school system must be a place of horror. When the EBT cards go down . . . . .

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    47. Anonymous says:

      There is a point when the social safety simply will not be sustainable, I am afraid of what will happen when those millions and millions of people here in the USA don’t get their “entitlements”. You all know what will happen.

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    48. justincase says:

      Consider this. I started to realizw somwthing this evening. I had to fo to waaly worls (oh the joy, please note sarcasm)there was only 6 lines open in a supr duper cneter. lines a mile long. i tried to wait and be an example to my lil one showing and teaching pateintce. I then decided to show the lil one brains and walked into to the garden center where there was no lone to check out. I should have just did that to begin with but tryong to teach the kid lessons. i could not believe how all the people just stood there wining and complaining about how long they were waiting. I have to asmit i did stand around a lil longer to observe. I do not thind there will be this onslaught of looting by people when the SHTF. why you mays ask. it would require a brain, which i am observing is not really a prob. they are all brainless sheeple. they want it given to them. let us sauy most of us here are not in a city most are rural or in the burbs for the nost part. do ya think many people besides already hardened ciminal gang people are smart enough to really get outta their own way. whith what i saw this evening nope low threat. even hungary mr. suberbia and his lil fanily will not even have a clue what to do. i am worried about criminals ans crazy people with lack of meds. everyday sheeple again on my encounter this eve low very low risk factoer.

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    49. Anonymous says:

      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click to read it.

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    50. Brian says:

      I know I am not the smartest guy but an idea occured to me the other day that could save us all. Some one posted earlier about a break up of our country into banded together states or on thier own. That is what happened to the USSR.

      Instead of waiting for that to happen lets sell part of Alaska and wipe out our debt? We are not using it because of the Sierra Clubbers wanting to preserve it for future generations. 80 % of the oil going through the pipeline goes to other countries and really what else do we get from Alaska. Hell they don’t even have that many people up there.

      So lets sell it or at least a part of it to say the Japanese who are facing a radioactive meltdown and would pay real good money for it. I’ll bet the Russians would love to get thier hands on it and would develop the oil unlike us. Trade the northern hald to China in lieu of the money we owe them.

      I would also like to see our borders opened up to anyone who can and will work. We need more people paying taxes and paying into Social Security to keep that ponzi scheme going for a while longer.

      I write all of this with a more than a little saracastic attitude on my behalf but think that we need to get a little creative and try to get out of this mess. Hey is not Russia how about Puerto Rico? :)

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      • Aaron says:

        Brian this inability to think creatively comes from years of being trained to do one thing and one thing only. Critical thinking and abstract thinking are rare qualities in individuals these days. Has anyone thought about how college prepares kids for the working world anymore? They have such a specific course of study they are nearly special needs when it comes to anything outside that realm. We have been made to be sufficient at only one thing and haven’t learned how to do other things. The average person can’t hang a picture on the wall without hiring a handyman cause they have no idea how to find a stud in the wall or what an anchor is lol. But they sure make gobs of money perfecting breast implants or making sodas with 0 calorie sweeteners

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    51. Brian says:

      Last line was supposed to be Hey if not Alaska how about Peurto Rico? What good are they to us?

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    52. GrayfoxGreen says:

      Greetings Everyone!
      Things are getting dicey everywhere to be sure…
      I’m reading my Bible a bit more and more these days.Far better than the foxy folks “TV baa baa news”.At least the Scriptures tells of a much better time ahead(Rev.21:3&4)in the final chapter.I’m guessing this current system is finally reaching the “well and truly over” phase of its existence.Even freshly dead bodies can continue twitching for awhile.They’re still dead,regardless.Just how long it takes(and I hope it ain’t long)is the big question.I look around at these wannabe/becoming thugs and crooks and think:”What possible place can there be for for such cruel and heartless savages in God’s Kingdom?”.And when I say “savages” I must also include all those wonderful “suits” at the Banks,Governments,Corporations and their Ilk who are “just doing their jobs”.And continue to do so no matter how much pain and suffering they cause.Such wickedness truly needs to be removed if anyone is to be able to survive.I’ll let God handle the details on this one.Even trying to make a list of ALL these “savages” is impossible.”There ain’t enuf bullets or time to drop a dime on ALL of them”.It’s like the old joke:What 50,000 lawyers at the bottom of the seas? A good beginning!
      Just my thoughts,I’m sure there are others…
      Best to All
      Hope you have your BOB and supplies near at hand.
      LTR,
      GFG

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    53. Watermain says:

      Is there really anyone in their right mind that believes 7that this is not headed to America? Really? You need to get in touch with the real world. We are headed for disaster and it won’t be later, it will be sooner. Wake up
      America before it is too late, please…

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    54. Prepping Preacher says:

      as i read this site daily, along with a few others, there’s one thing that i have not seen addressed… it is, in my opinion, the single most important factor that will make our nation’s collapse more dramatic than that of Greece or even the whole of Europe… the factor i’m referring to is the unmitigated, ever-growing general arrogance of Americans… not only do most not believe that it could happen here, they almost defy it to come thinking that simply because it’s America, that we’re immune to the ravages of greed, gluttony and general bad behavior when it comes to national and personal finances and business… the whole thing is sickening…

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      • Aaron says:

        PrepPreacher I like the way you think it’s right on line with what i think of a lot of stuff. I do agree that americans tend to feel entitled to whatever they want. When it hits the fan these folks will bluntly demand something from you as if you owe them something. I almost lost my home earlier this year to financial woes and never once asked anyone for money. As I see it they didn’t create the problem and I don’t need for them to have problems on account of me. Plus people must remember if you pull your family down with you who do you think is gonna help you then. Gotta protect your family sometimes even from yourself

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      • VanMom says:

        Prepping Preacher:

        Well said.

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    55. The Bible says:

      Jan 2009, Ohomo just got elected and guns sales are going nuts. Our local talk radio show has it as a topic. I call in and say, “The reason gun sales are so high is because people are getting ready for civil unrest/civil war.” I got laughed off the air.

      WHO’S LAUGHING NOW?

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    56. Patriot One says:

      That’s the way Countries crumble. What’s not discussed is what happens when sanitation breaks down. Diphtheria, Cholera and Plagues move quickly through the population. Pandemic contagion could spread around the globe as fast as planes can fly.

      Most of these are simple cures if you can get the proper medication, but who’s going to pay for it when your own government can’t?

      Like socialized healthcare I believe Greece, like Italy and Spain have Socialized Pensions. Untreated people will die and just like their healthcare treats old people now. The let them die, it cheaper. Most American’s don’t comprehend that, but that is what they do and I have a bunch of dead relatives in Italy to prove it.

      Think about it, if your a broke government and you have the opportunity to wipe out 50-60% of your pension cost what are you going to do? Don’t get me wrong they will put on a show with the UN and WHO but it will be to little to late. Bye, Bye to legacy cost via pandemic.

      I know it sounds brutal, but that is what governments do, even our own. The plans a Continuity of government, not America, not you, not me!!!

      The financial collapse is only one link in a vicious chain of events to follow. Ready or not, here it comes!!

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    57. Nam Marine says:

      And yet……….no one does a thing? There should have been a Coup-de’-etat by now! What the Hell is the Military waiting for?

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    58. kevin says:

      *Breaking Reports: Cyber Bank Raid in Progress Targeting US, UK, Euro-zone Banks*

      UK’s Sky News has just reported that a huge worldwide cyber bank raid is ongoing- €60 million have been confirmed stolen through 1 server, and a total of €2 billion is estimated to have been stolen through an additional 59 servers!

      The doc over at silver doctors.com

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    59. The Banksters were given $7,000,000,000,000 of American taxpayer money. Real estate speculation by the East Side crowd in Manhattan, NYC, the Banksters, sent Tel Aviv, Israel housing costs skyrocketing.

      You have a GOVERNMENT that is HOSTILE to the American Majority population. ACTIVELY hostile. A government that commits FEDERAL FELONIES on a regular basis, with NO CONSEQUENCES. So this isn’t merely about hard economic times it is more reminiscent of Bolshevik Russia and as Krushchev noted TWENTY MILLION RUSSIAN CHRISTIANS were EXTERMINATED by the Bolsheviks. If you check the pedigrees of the PEOPLE who are the ELITE in Banking, media, publishing, you will find the descendants of the Bolshevik butchers.

      So just to give you a heads up…

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    60. Ohcumgache says:

      It has just occurred to me that there is a reason for all of the tank, troop, drone and aircraft maneuvers as of late. In my opinion, they are bracing for the aftermath of the presidential election. If Obama wins then there will be angry mobs who know his next move is to take away their 2nd amendment rights, probably within a few days of winning. If he looses then the entitlement crowd and the minorities will take to the streets and blood will be shed. I am certain that this dictator, believes he will win and is prepared with an arsenal of made up executive decisions to implement immediately upon the american people. Martial law will be declared and the rest you can imagine. He will show his true colors for all the world to see in November. If he should lose then he will still have more than a month to create havoc and destruction. November is the month to be concerned with. I truly believe it will be a time to stay home and not venture out unnecessarily. Stock your cupboards and hope that it will only last a short while.

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      • nunya says:

        There will be three supreme court justices that will retire in the next four years. Once Hussain has filled those positions with his people, we are done as a republic.. Things will go downhill very rapidly.
        Maybe not so fast if Mitt is elected.. But I don’t see that happening. Hussain has made sure he will be win.
        He has bought all the welfare votes and now the hispanic vote. He also has a man on the board of the company that will count the votes( in Spain)

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    61. Ernest Hemingway was asked by a reporter, “How did you go bankrupt?” You see, he had gone bankrupt so the reporter asked him how that happened. It’s not like he was Obama or anything like that, you could just ask him a question and he would give an answer. Anyhow, where was I?

      Oh yeah, Hemingway, they asked him a question, “How did you go bankrupt?” You see, he had made a lot of money writing books so the reporter was… free. Nevermind, I’m getting off track. Sorry.

      They asked Hemingway how in the hell did you go bankrupt? And of course, him being a great writer and all like he is, of course, they expected a great answer because that’s what he was all about, follow me? So of course, Hemingway, being a man of letters and quick-witted enough to be good in an interview. I would mull things over, look up at the ceiling, touch my nose but not pick it, lousy interviewee, my mind might wander… I think it just did again! Dang!

      Anyway, Hemingway, put it this way, “How did I go bankrupt? Very slowly at first and then all of a sudden!”

      I just hope the way the dollar is ‘considered a safe haven’ might become a cornerstone which saves our Nation in what may appear to be final writhing contortions in the global financial markets… but stack anyway.

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    62. peter parker says:

      Hi all,

      A couple of observations:
      1. Most banks do not keep a large amount of cash on hand. 2 or 3 people asking to withdraw thousands of dollars would exhaust their on hand cash. Mine simply asks to request a few days in advance if you want to withdraw a large amount in cash (bank drafts/checks are no problem). 2. The eighteen year old who asked about the guns/rifles: I used to own just about everything mentioned (until I stupidly attempted to take my collection across the lake in a canoe to visit a friend, and like so many here, experienced a rogue wave that capsized me – DAMN YOU WATERSKIERS!!! furiously shaking fist in the air) My favorite is the Henry lever action, it seems the lever action will be more reliable over the long term IMHO. Also the Henry 22 will accept all variations of the 22LR, shorts, longs, and long rifle, a potential value added in a SHTF scenario. Check out their site, I also really liked -sob- the 22 Magnum rifle, and that calibre is a personal fave.

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    63. peter parker says:

      @ QB: I believe that line came from a character in his novel: The sun never sets? It is a great line

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    64. Matt says:

      The question does seem to be “Will this happen?” but “WHEN will this happen?”

      Anyone have any good guesses?

      Between peak oil, potential for monocrop disaster via GMO crops, 2% of the US population supplying food for the other 98%, we can’t provide ANYTHING of need for ourselves (food, heat, water, shelter) – we need other farmers, an oil company, most need city water, and a house run on electricity – What are we to do?

      How much longer is the man going to continue to feed us? There is only so much time left.

      Anyone have any good guesses?

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    65. Brian says:

      Matt,

      I think it is anybody’s guess as to when it will fall apart. There are some signs to watch out for:

      1. If the head Prince of Saudi Arabia who is his eighties dies there is no one set up to suceed him and there is like either 900 or 9000 crown princes who would fight it out. Remember that Bin Ladens brothers are all crown princes. A disruption of our oil supply would mean havoc within days.

      2. Any natural disaster such as an big earthquake here in California. It is all about AIG, the only no financial company to recieve a bailout. They are the umbrella company for most of all the insurance companies in the Western world. They got bailed out so business’s have liabilty and E & O insurance and can continue work.

      3. The holding tanks holding the nuculer water in Japan break you can kiss us all in the Northern Hemisphere off and there is nothing we can do about it.

      4. A break up of the Euro will give us a couple of days before a bank holiday is declared here in the U.S. and we hit critical mass in the financial system.

      5. If Russia and China say thats it and declare the American Dollar as worthless and the Arabs no longer accept the dollar as payment for oil. If the dollar is no longer the worlds currency it is worthless. You may have a day or two on that one to get to the store.

      6. If there are riots this summer, which I think is being encouraged to happen, Obama could declare Marshall Law and suspend the elections until he believes the country is under control. I emphasize “he believes”.

      I could go on but I think you get the message. At any time some thing could happen and you just have to be prepared as best as you can.

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    66. GrayFoxGreen says:

      Greetings Everyone!
      Just a few thoughts….
      After the “election”,what’s next?
      I suspect that we’ll see markets in general to lose 75%-805 of their value(about what happened in the 1930′s.).Jobs will disappear at an even more alarming rate(say about 1 out of 2)This means that 90% of ALL retirements are now or will be crumbs on the table.It also means that Sheeple will will undoubtedly wake up to the crisis at last,and as usual for them panic,howl at the moon,have a tempter tantrum and then demand ACTION from the TPTB.But what can be done?Logic tells us that the only thing that most PTB are good at is only creating CONTROLS.Not for the common good,but to keep themselves in power.You can extrapolate what they plan on doing from what they are training for currently.Both militarily and politically.I always wondered if what Hollywood shows us in their Science-Fiction movies are a preview of coming attractions.
      Do you have your towel yet?
      Pity if not
      LTR,
      GFG

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    67. 1982MSGT says:

      When SHTF remember those friends or relatives that needed prescription drugs to fight depression, or to elevate their psychiatric situation? What is going to happen whenever those drugs are no longer available?

      Any Type II (Insulin dependent) Diabetics are going to have a shorter life span.

      When the money runs out what will you barter for? What will you barter with?

      Professional Pharmacies, Hospitals, EMTs, Nurses or Physicians will have their hand tied if their supply chain is broken because no one is able to pay their bills.

      It isn’t just about food in storage, guns/ammo available. It is about living. Maintaining one’s health.

      Plan for these problems. Develop work-arounds for these problems.

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    68. FatJoe says:

      Those “starving” Greeks in the picture don’t look starving to me.

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    69. Louis says:

      If you want to see the future of America, just look south of us. A third world right next door. Being runned by narco traffickers. In other nations they call them war lords. Same difference. All the good educated young people of Mexico have left that nation. A few are left and all the rest are trying to escape to America, away from the war lords. This is Americas future. Because you continue to vote, it means nothing. You can keep voting until the nation no longer exists. There are no easy solutions and no winners. You know what must be done. Yet you dare not speak it or think it. Because you know what it means. I dare not write it because I want the gestapo knocking at my door. Welcome to 1984. It’s over. You have no rights and you cannot make demands. You all know what you have to do. Your family members think your crazy when you tell them what is happening. Your co-workers think your an odd ball. You get better understanding from strangers and those that live on the fringes of society. Because they know the same thing you know. The curtain hass fallen and we can see the reality of where we are and that we really have nothing left to discuss or vote about. It’s over. We cannot go back, and no amount of talking will ever change that. Only actions count. Get out! Escape! RUN!

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    70. Steven Earl Salmony says:

      Thinking globally, acting locally and defining sustainability

      http://normantranscript.com/opinion/x1915499482/Seek-true-sustainability-over-growth Â

      The Norman Transcript

      June 24, 2012

      NORMAN – Editor, The Transcript:

      My opinion is that the current global recession will not end until human societies change. Very difficult, given the nature of political systems and the human condition.

      Global human population tripled during the 20th century and is currently near 7 billion. Human population diminishes the planetary resource base, increases demand and prices, and is a cause of the present global recession. Nevertheless, global human population is presently increasing by about 80 million annually. Norman and the United States as a whole have contributed. The U.S. human population quadrupled during the 20th century and continues to increase today. Norman’s population was about 27,000 in 1950, 52,000 in 1970, 97,000 in 2000, and was 111,000 in 2010.

      None of this population increase seems enough for Chambers of Commerce in Norman, in Oklahoma, and across our land. In The Norman Transcript on June 19th, John Woods, current chair of the Norman C of C, called for us to “build a community of economic success, strong quality of life amenities that attract the next generation of young professionals and families to help fund the critical components of our city that we all care about. We need to begin a dialogue…” This letter is an effort to contribute to that dialogue. My view is that we already have the above listed attributes in Norman and that CofCs call for more growth is detrimental.

      One of our City Councilors recently said to me, “If you don’t grow, you rot.” This reminds of another local issue, NEDA, which is treated here only by implication. In my opinion, the City Councilor’s opinion is true only for cultural growth. Human numbers and society are past the point that physical growth becomes detrimental. Furthermore, all forms of physical growth are not sustainable, though often so-called. Malthus spoke more than a century ago to an imbalance between population growth and food supply, an imbalance detrimental to human welfare. Forty-five years ago, Paul Ehrlich wrote The Population Bomb, and Hardin published a collection of numerous papers with dire predictions. These authors were not mistaken, but they were premature because they did not and could not anticipate effects of burgeoning technology, which has greatly facilitated extraction of resources.

      Technology does not contradict science; technology is science in application. The increased rate of resource extraction and still rising human populations are grave threats to future human welfare. But, what can we do? What should we do?

      One action that should be helpful would be for CofCs to renounce population growth as an appropriate objective and to devote their intelligence and efforts to formulation of a healthful alternate paradigm of true sustainability.

      Edwin Kessler

      Norman, Oklahoma

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    71. Dave says:

      The term “social safety net” is a euphemism for “parasites”.
      Sure, some are worthy of help due to theit inability to care for themselves, but who believes the majority aren’t just leeching off of us?
      All of this will come to a screeching halt when our dollar reverts to its natural value 0.00!

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