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    Broke and Jobless: 85% of College Grads Moving Home

    Mac Slavo
    October 17th, 2010
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (42)
    Read by 822 people

    In yet another sign of the times, 85% of college graduates surveyed have reported that they will be moving home after they get their degrees:

    Stubbornly high unemployment — nearly 15% for those ages 20-24 — has made finding a job nearly impossible. And without a job, there’s nowhere for these young adults to go but back to their old bedrooms, curfews and chore charts. Meet the boomerangers.

    “This recession has hit young adults particularly hard,” according to Rich Morin, senior editor at the Pew Research Center in DC.

    So hard that a whopping 85% of college seniors planned to move back home with their parents after graduation last May, according to a poll by Twentysomething Inc., a marketing and research firm based in Philadelphia. That rate has steadily risen from 67% in 2006.

    “It’s peaking at levels we have not seen before,” said David Morrison, managing director and founder of Twentysomething.

    While unemployment for college grads is 15% according to Bloomberg, we know for a fact that the overall rate of unemployment, per economist John Williams of Shadow States, is actually at around 22%.

    It’s not just college students, it’s everybody – one in five able bodied Americans are out of work right now.

    There is a reason that these numbers, especially for college grads, are peaking at levels we have never seen before: it’s because our economy is shambles with no clear recovery in sight.

    According to the New York Times, we’ve lost so many job through this year, that at this rate it will actually take until the year 2020 to recoup most of them. That is, just to break even! Our economy has to create 150,000 jobs per month just to keep the current employment/unemployment rate at current levels – and that is simply not happening. In essence, even if we add 50,000 jobs per month, we’re technically still increasing our unemployment rate because more people are hitting the workforce each month than there are jobs created.

    The important consideration to make is that the 2020 estimate is based on economic conditions up until now, not accounting for the potential losses to come. It seems that this statistic actually forecasts growth going forward, not additional losses. When you hear 2020, you’re hearing a “best case” scenario.

    For savvy SHTFplan readers, you know that unemployment is actually going to rise, as there is no economic growth to be had. Thus, for all we know, we may not see recovery in employment for several decades.

    For college grads, it gets even worse. Not only can they not find a job, but they are putting financial pressure on their parents, who will now have to continue providing a home, food, and utilities until such time that their boomerang kid can get some meaningful work and contribute financially to the household. On top of that, they are debt laden with an average debt of over $23,000 once they graduate college. Considering that up until the recession, the average graduate made just $30,000 per year in an entry level position, and the fact that those types of jobs are no few and far between, we can see the potential for a new round of debt-defaults in the near future.

    Can anyone say College Loan and Education Bubble?

    The theory of “biflation,” one that we have presented to our readers in the past, suggests that there is a possibility of price deflation in debt based assets such as homes, and price inflation in essential goods such as food and energy. We’d mark college education as a debt-based asset, because these days most students depend on loans to pay costly tuition fees.This, like home prices, is simply not sustainable.The very same bubble that was created by easy Fed lending policies has led to a similar situation in college eduction. As credit became loose, and everyone with a pulse applied for a college loan and got one, the price of college eduction rose sharply.

    We can confidently forecast a drop in college tuitions coming to campuses around the country in the very near future. Note, however, that these price decreases will be in “real” terms, as opposed to “nominal” terms. Don’t forget, The Fed is still printing tens of billions of dollars every month, and as such, the dollar-based price of pretty much everything is likely to go up. In real terms, however, say, compare to gold or energy or food, the price of college tuition (and housing) is going to see contraction.

    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post
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    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 822 people
    Date: October 17th, 2010
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

     

    42 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. Tom says:

      Time to learn how to make your bed & wonder which bacon to bring home while watching The Graduate.  Which turn was that to find home?

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    2. apache says:

      here are some thoughts from mexico. there will never be a “recovery”. the current crisis is only the beginning of the economic horror that is coming. america is in a downward spiral into a neofeudal state controlled by the  global bankers and their suckup democratic and republican courtiers. unfortunately because of the derivatives, mortgage backed securities and credit default swaps invented by deregulated corrupt wall street bankers they are dragging many of us in other countries with them. most american citizens are  full of NFL pablum and hollywood soma.  they are  totally ignorant of economic realities. they  will continue to be fooled into thinking that the  two party political system gives them real  choices. they will vote in sham elections for secret fascist agendas and will, therefore, suffer the horrible consequences.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    3. laura m. says:

      Back in the 60′s after college or business school, people would get room mates to share expenses.  Motivated young people will do that today.  Of course the work ethic is way down from  30-40 years ago.  We used to  get clothes from thrift stores, use public transit, cook from scratch and only the losers would go back home (parents were strict then)  in fact there were very few losers then…and  once you left home it was a disgrace to ever move back.  Many parents today are losers and door mats.   Back then students worked nights and paid their college expenses.   Now, if adult kids want to move back home there is one condition..pull your weight financially,  share grocery and utility expenses, and clean up after yourself and pay rent!  I swear, I’ve never seen so many loser dysfunctional families in my age group and younger.  If kids  aren’t taught  responsibilities when young, they will be slackers when they become adults.  Why do you think there are over 40 million getting handout’s and free school lunches, etc. today??

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

    4. manos says:

      Apache,

      Here in Greece they passed a law which prohibits all transactions over 1000 euros. The same law forces all citizens to acquire a smart card.
      Through this card all transactions will be send directly to the IRS servers. The worst thing is that all those millions of transactions will pass through a bank first.
      The excuse is to catch illegals and money laundry, the main goal is to provide banks with liquidity (my cash, your cash etc), and give them the power for the days to come.
      The amazing is that my fellow citizens are sleeping. They watch the Greek idol, big brother, and top chef.
      All the above, with the compliments of a socialist government which supposedly would help the people from poverty.

      Manos

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    5. Gods Creation says:

      College is a waste of time and money.  The vast majority that graduate and go to work are exactly what they are trained to be.  Corporate robots.

      Even if you went to college and went to work a long time ago, anything you saved in the system is going to be stolen if not removed immediately.  At best, college allowed a person to make more money that could be overtaxed, and finally stolen.

      College is a commitment to work for the corporation for the rest of your life.  It not only puts you in a lot of debt, it makes you a well trained slave.  Good sheep.

      Abandon the corporation and learn to make money on your own.  The internet is a great way to make money, but there are others.  Nobody is going to teach you how to make money for yourself.  Least of all a college.  It takes courage to get started.  Most people are so used to being told what to do they can’t do anything for themselves.

      Think the economy is too bad to make money in a new business?  Well, lets say the real unemployment rate is 25%.  That leaves 75% of the people working.  There may be fewer customers, but there will always be some no matter how bad things get.   If the internet shuts down there will be more important things to worry about than work and money.

      Sorry for the rant. I hope I can inspire one person to leave the corporation and fly solo.  Be your own boss, not a corporate slave.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

    6. Anonymous says:

      Apache, how’s the drug cartel doing on taking over everything down that way?

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    7. Durango Kidd says:

      Mac:  I am going to have to disagree with you about tuition. I think you are spot on about everything else, but tuition is still going up, and will continue to do so, because demand is still there, and education is the best hope for many to escape a dead end job.

      Additionally, in depressed economic times like this, many people go back to school for additional education. In Arizona, tuition goes up every year. Tuition increases are a tool by the PTB to separate the wheat from the chaff.

      The wealthy and upper middle class will still be able to afford a University education and will pursue it for their children. The bright and the gifted will pursue it too, because higher intelligence typically breeds greater ambition and more initiative, but not always.

      Those here like GC who suggest that a University education is just a stepping stone to becoming a corporate robot obviously does not have a college degree; and that is the rationale that he has used to support his lack of one.

      I have met many highly intelligent people who are just too lazy and lack the discipline to get a degree. No one with a college degree would suggest that it makes them a corporate robot. A BA or BS is an essential step to professional status. Professional status is a step towards financial independence. Today, you must have a college degree just to become a paralegal for example.

      Is a university education absolutely necessary to have a productive, successful life? Of course not. Neither is a college degree necessary for for financial success. But an education is necessary for financial success. How you get that education is up to you. You can do it the easy way or the hard way. The hard way is much more difficult.

      I have two degrees and had four professional licenses before an early retirement. Those professional licenses include thousands of additional class room hours, not to mention the extra study outside of class. You can break your back for a living with someone else telling you what to do, or you can expand your mind and make your own choices.

      Apache: Anyone that lives in a cespool of a country like Mexico should not be making disparging remarks about the USA.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    8. Bill says:

      College is not a waste of time and money if you have the right attitude about it.  If you go to school with borrowed money you had better be damn sure what you want and how you’ll get there.  If your going to college to drink, get laid and party they you’ll get what you deserve.  It’s never changed and it never will.  If you have the brains and drive to stick with it then you’ll make it no matter whats thrown at you.  If your a dumb ass going in you’ll be just as dumb when you come out. 

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    9. Rick Blaine says:

      Durango Kidd,

      I agree with you that some sort of education is a necessity…

      Mac’s point, one I agree with, is simply this:

      If the prices of tuition continue to increase (in particular, if they continue to increase at a rate faster than wages), at some point, one will be able to make the argument, at some point, that it’s no longer worth it to rack up a bunch of debt (if needed) to get a degree…at least from a financial standpoint.

      I was lucky enough to be on scholarship for my undergrad degree – at a small Catholic university.  During my freshmen year (1995), tuition was about $15K/year…so, at that time, a four year degree, with living expenses, books, etc. would have cost at least $80K.

      Well, since then tuition has gone up to over $35K/year.  Yes, tuition has more than doubled in 15 years…

      So, that same degree would now cost at least $150K (with expenses).

      Given the current job market, as well as my gut feeling about the job market over the next decade or so, I simply could not advise an 18 year-old to attend that university if they had to go into $150K of debt to get a degree – from a financial standpoint.

      If they get a scholarship – sure – as will always be the case.

      If their family has the money to pay for it – OK.

      However, if tuition continues to rise, it will make sense for less and less people…even the “rich” – from a financial standpoint.  Thus, EVENTUALLY, demand will drop off.  That is the bubble Mac is referring to…

      Peter Schiff has opined that one of primary reasons for ever-increasing tuition is the seemingly never-ending supply of money that is available from government-backed student loans.  Although such loan programs MIGHT be well-intended, you are not doing anyone any favors by given them access to money if that access only drives up education costs (via simple supply/demand) and winds up putting them in so much debt that it really can’t be paid back (the same principle applies to housing).

      One more thing – tuition at Arizona State is now $20K/year for non-residents…$5K more than it was for the small, private university I started just 15 years ago.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    10. Durango Kidd says:

      Rick: Thanks for the response. With the analogy you make, that tuition is going up faster than wages, doesn’t it make sense for some kids to borrow money to get the education that will increase their earning power? And if tuition is rising faster than wages, doesn’t that imply inflation, since inflation is typically the rationale that universities give for raising salaries and increasing tuition?

      Why not pay back that loan with depreciating dollars?

      And if the reverse were the case, where tutition is not going up faster than wages, doesn’t it make sense for some kids to borrow money to get an education that will increase their earning power? lol

      Either way, for some kids, borrowing the money to get an education will increase their earning capacity well beyond the level of the debt they borrowed. For some kids, like Bill said, if they are a dumb ass before they go to college, it is likely they will be a dumb ass after they get out. Although, university has been know to change one’s perspectives as well as one earning capacity.

      Bottom line, increased college tuition is a strategy by the PTB to keep people sheeple and dones chained to the cogs of their machines. Education is liberation and I know you understand that!

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    11. clark says:

      Home equity withdraws are what drives much of the rise in education costs, now that the housing bubble is popped, things aren’t going to be the same, prices for tuition will drop.

      Demand isn’t the only thing that determines cost, competition and oversupply have a role:

      College on $11 a Day (or Less)

      http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/65369.html

      Misunderstanding Higher Education

      http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north524.html

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    12. Buro says:

      Comments…..college……..hell thats the new high school
      .

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    13. J-ct says:

      Back in 1997 jobs were plentiful and I read one IT managers account of interviewing a guy just out of college for a $50k job. The prospect came to the interview wearing sweat pants and sneakers and spiked hair. He put his feet up on the interviewers desk and acted annoyed that he would have to suffer such a formality as an interview. How times have changed! 

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    14. Lee says:

      Comments…..Laura,  Please do not group all young people living at home as deadbeats.  Where in the world did we get the idea that young people should automatically move out at age 18 or 21?  My oldest son is still living at home because he is saving and preparing for marriage NOW, while he is young.  He plans to pay cash for a home before purchasing one and has paid cash for his vehicle and all purchases made.  We are teaching all our children to deal in cash and to save the money BEFORE making purchases.  Maybe if we had learned to begin saving for things while young we wouldn’t be in the financial shape we are now in.  Instead, we waste lots of money during our youth on frivolous things expecting to go into debt for every last thing we buy in the future.  By the way, he  has saved over half the amount needed to purchase a home, purchased needed equipment for a farming venture, and is a very responsible young man.  He is only 24 years old and I/we are very proud of him.  Living debt-free can be done.  Why not encourage our young people to begin early  and avoid some of the traps we as Americans have experienced.  Stop wasting money on apartments and parties and begin preparing responsibly for the future.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    15. Janeusa says:

      The BACK-DOOR DRAFT IS STILL ON.  In WWII the draft ages were from 18 to 45yr-old. 

      The Elites’ children will be exempt, because they can get into Medical programs.  Try to get in if you can.  Stay with your parents, so you can save money and finish your school.
      Go to school to get some education.  Something practical so you can a good job, and live a more positive life.

      You can distinguish BS from the truth and contribute to society as well.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    16. JANE says:

      There is no disgrace in living with your parents. 

      You’re your parents’ child from the time you’re a baby, and even when you’re a 100-yr-old. Living with your parents to save money and to take care of them, that’s the way it should be. 

      All countries and all people are affected by planned economic disasters.  So don’t let these people intimidate you or make you feel you’re taking advantages of your parents.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    17. Fat Boy says:

      All monetary systems, including gold based money, fail if the powers that be are allowed to create money out of thin air and/or live in deficits.  

      Why would 1913 USA allow a 3rd party middle man to control the money supply and charge us for servicing.  It must end.

      The US government must eliminate all outflows of taxpayer money to foreign countries, private citizens and corporations.

      Simple, pay your own way. 

      Pay your bills or go directly to debtor prison.  No one should get a free meal off the taxpayer.  No one should get any assistance whatsoever from the taxpayer.  The taxpayer isn’t an ATM machine that you can borrow from and never pay back.  This shit has got to stop.

      I can see the cost of health care falling 90% if everyone that needed services had to pay their own way.  At first the hospitals would be empty, then they would have to lower their rates to get people in the door.   Same with prescript drugs.   Same with college education.  At first the schools would be mostly empty but the 2nd year they would be cutting tuition by 90% if everyone had to pay their own way.

      Government assistance causes most of the affordability.

      No more free lunches.

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    18. Rick Blaine says:

      Durango Kidd,

      Yes – as you guessed, I highly value education.  I was able to get out of undergrad with no debt – however, I’ll be paying off my loans for grad school for quite some time…

      Re your latest comments:

      …With the analogy you make, that tuition is going up faster than wages, doesn’t it make sense for some kids to borrow money to get the education that will increase their earning power?

      No, it doesn’t make sense at all – at least that’s a possibility.  If tuition continues to rise faster than wages, and new graduates are having a tough time getting a good-paying job and wind up working at Starbucks or something (nothing wrong with that), they are going to have a heck of a time paying off that debt.  Sure, one can argue that they will have an easier time getting that job at Starbucks compared to someone without a degree – but my point here is that it MIGHT not make sense for them to rack up all of the debt that may necessary to get a degree from a top tier state school or private university.  The economics may be more favorable if they, for example, learn a trade…somehow…without getting into that much debt.  When/if this “bubble” does burst, I think you will see reasonably priced trade schools become more common and popular…
      And if tuition is rising faster than wages, doesn’t that imply inflation, since inflation is typically the rationale that universities give for raising salaries and increasing tuition?
      I respectfully disagree – but it depends on how you define inflation.  If “inflation” was the main reason why tuition at my alma mater has nearly tripled over the past fifteen years, wouldn’t “everything” cost 3x as much as it did in 1995?  Wouldn’t salaries be 3x what they were in 1995?  Wouldn’t housing cost 3x what it did in 1995?  Sure, prices on some things are higher than they were in ’95 – but housing is way down from peak (at least in most areas); computers a cheaper, etc.  My point here is that we have not seen “across the board, 3x inflation” since 1995.  That is, prices on “everything” and wages have not tripled since 1995.  It is my opinion that the rise in tuition is primarily due to the fact that people have been willing to pay for the ever-increasing tuition prices – simple supply/demand – and this has been made worse by the seemingly endless supply of government backed student loans.
      Why not pay back that loan with depreciating dollars?
      You do make a good point here…assuming we were seeing legit, across the board, money supply inflation…which is another topic.  The only way this would make sense, in my opinion, is if wages were rising faster than tuition – which is not the case.
      And if the reverse were the case, where tutition is not going up faster than wages, doesn’t it make sense for some kids to borrow money to get an education that will increase their earning power?

      Yes, if tuition was not going up faster than wages, or going down relative to wage increases, everything would be fine.  However, that is not happening.

      Either way, for some kids, borrowing the money to get an education will increase their earning capacity well beyond the level of the debt they borrowed. For some kids, like Bill said, if they are a dumb ass before they go to college, it is likely they will be a dumb ass after they get out. Although, university has been know to change one’s perspectives as well as one earning capacity.

      Agreed – my comments are more of a “generalization” kind of thing.

      Bottom line, increased college tuition is a strategy by the PTB to keep people sheeple and dones chained to the cogs of their machines. Education is liberation and I know you understand that!

      Agreed x10 – education IS liberation…and a college degree is not NECESSARILY an “education.”

      Good stuff…

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    19. Rick Blaine says:

      Darn…the formatting/spacing got messed up…

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    20. NOYB says:

      College can be an asset, an anchor, or a hindrance depending on who and what you are as a person, and what you choose to pursue.  If you have no work ethic and pursue a degree in “Ethnic Studies”, you can always take down the Power Rangers poster in your old room when you move back with the ‘rents.  I can only speak for myself, and my choice of Engineering.  It taught me critical thinking, problem solving, accountability, how to understand complex systems, and showed me that the world is my oyster.

      Even though my career has not been in Engineering, I use the intellectual tools *every day*.  It has helped me get a handle on the SHTF situation by applying a good BS filter to sort the rants and tinfoil hats from what is likely or probable.  The piece of paper is just that – a piece of paper.  The tools derived from those studies, however, are priceless and have allowed me to create my own options in life.  “Garbage in, Garbage out” applies to the student as well as the coursework.

      One of my engineering-minded coworkers never went for the degree, and even though he’s crazy smart, that lack of exposure to financial, social, business, and psychological disciplines is very telling in his decisions for the company.  He’s repeating historical errors because he was never made aware of them in college.  He does not recognize conditions or developments that were covered in class from a dozen different perspectives because he took a “screw college” path.  In most cases he does not even recognize the eventual failure of the decision as a blunder on his part.

      It all boils down to Sun Tsu:  Know the enemy and know yourself, and your victory will not stand in doubt.  Know Heaven and know Earth, and you will make your victory complete.

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    21. Gods Creation says:

      Durango Kid

      I have a college degree and spent over twenty years in retail management as a corporate slave.   Then I woke up and broke free.

      It is not difficult to justify staying out of college.  Somewhat harder to justify some of what I was asked to do by the corporation I worked for.

      As for increased earning potential, that no longer applies and was never as much as was claimed.  It was an ad campaign to get kids in college so they could take out all those loans.

      Going forward, it will be even more difficult for those who have degrees but no clue how to use their own minds and ambitions to make money without being dependent on the corporations and the mind numbing 9 to 5 job.  A college degree teaches you how to work for someone else, with no guarantees.  The problem is that the jobs are gone.  A degree does not help you in a service environment.

      To think a college degree will help one iota with managing a business is ridiculous.  When I was hiring store managers, I would always take the motivated guy who had been with the company for a couple of years over the guy out of college.  Why?  Because the guy out of college had no idea how a store ran in the real world.  The guy in the store was trained on the job by my company and knew exactly what to do out of the box.

      I recall reading about two corporate managers who were hired at about the same time and were good friends.  They worked for over 15 years there and both were put into vice presidencies at about the same time.

      The company did a background check required for the promotion and found that both of the men had fake Ivy league degrees and had never gone to college.  Both were terminated, in spite of 15 years of service and an obviously well done job.

      The jobs that require a degree are few and far between.  Still, corporations are only concerned about the paper, not the people.  So if you want to be a corporate slave, college could be your ticket.  

      But if you want to insulate yourself from the corporations that are fleecing you, you had better learn to make money without them.

      The only business that is expanding is government business.  When it collapses, there will be few working with or without a degree.

      Those who can get by without corporations will survive, while those dependent on them will be taking to the streets without a clue as to where their next dollar is coming from.

      I quit the corporation as soon as my online business could pay the bills consistently and started working for myself full time.  Now I make more than the corporation would ever pay me and I can go to work in my PJs.   Hell, the money even comes in when I take time off.  Try finding that with a college degree.

      DK, you are living in the past when it comes to the value of a college degree.   And your assumption that I, or anybody else, would need to justify not having a degree is a little off base, even if I didn’t already have one that I will never use again.

      You get an education from living life, not in school.  You teach yourself everything important that you learn.  It is far more important to teach yourself how to survive without a corporate job than it is to learn how to make money for the corporation. 

      The average 18 year old today could spend two years or less learning how to make money online and make far more than a college graduate taking a corporate gig after 4 years of school and a boatload of debt.

      Would you rather be a 20 year old making 50K a year working at home, or an unemployed 22 year old college graduate without prospects and a hugh debt to pay?

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    22. manos says:

      Gods Creation,

      I respect your postings and your opinion. Today allow me to disagree concerning the college knowledge.
      I work as an accountant in Crete-Greece. My first deegre was a 3-year lower accounting school here in the city of Heraklion. I leraned how to deal with numbers, bookeeping, balance sheets, and income statements. A narrow knowledge which was useful for a specific job.
      Around 2000 i started distance learning with the University of Maryland through the Heildeberg branch in Germany, and graduated in 2007.
      What i got through this reliable degree, was a wider horizon in knowledge. I learned how to explain things rather than implement them only. I learned how to search books, libraries, databases, and archives.
      I also took elective classes in history, science, sociology, math, business communication, and biology.
      Finally, my English got better, at least for the average Greek standards.
      Even if in the months to come i lose my job, i have the potential for showing a better c.v. comparing to other fellow accountants.
      I know things will get tough, but i wouldn’t change the Maryland years for nothing. Every dollar i invested there gave me back its interest.
      Respectfully

      Manos

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    23. apache says:

      manos,

      your plight reminds me of what happened to my relatives in argentina in the 2001 “problema”.

      cash withdrawls from banks were limited to about $250 per week. the argentinians called this condition “corralito” implying that they were being put into a little pig pen. ( in the meantime the bankers were leaving argentina with most of the wealth)…

      best wishes and good luck…

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    24. manos says:

      Thanks apache,

      My fellow citizens are sleeping, and when they are awake they watch all those stupid tv programms.
      The only salvation for all of us may come from the French and the Spaniards.
      But i’m very pessimistic.

      May god help us all (if He still resides this poor planet).

      Manos

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    25. Chris C. says:

      Lots of good comments.

      I have 2 degrees in electrical engineering. Went to school in ’92 to ’96 at a state university where tuition was $16,000/yr by the time I left. What is it now? $40,000.

      Here’s the sad truth in it all. I know intellectually I did not need to attend 4 1/2 years in order to have the job I do today as a semiconductor designer. Could have learned it all on the job, or at least nearly all of it. So what did I get out of College? Well, I proved to myself I could do the work and function independently in a tough curriculum and complete my degree. Now, would I have been hired without the college dipoloma? There unfortunately is the other sad reality to most job seekers today, but I suspect it will mean less and less as time goes on in this particular economic climate.

      Have to agree with Rick for the most part here. College tuition, along with health insurance (and if you want to throw in food and energy prices) have far outstripped the average “official” rate of inflation today. In fact, taking into account the average rate of inflation the median family of four has seen its standard of living decrease every decade since 1973. It’s hard to argue college degrees are worth the investment when families are getting less and less “real” dollars to make that investment. Families are getting squeezed at every turn, and IMHO the college bubble will burst, but it may not be spectacular. That all depends on a whole lot of other factors. Naturally, choice of major has a great deal to do with making the investment in the first place so it’s not a general statement, but I would think twice before sending my 17-18 year old off today unless it’s to a local community college or trade school. Lucky for me, my oldest is 10 so I suspect most of the bubble will have popped by then. One can only hope.

      I do believe in the “biflation” argument, as the theory currently stands up to scrutiny which is the most important provision of the scientific method. This is my explanation as to why this is occurring.

      There is deflation and inflation going on at the same time, right now. Why there is such a raging debate on which one is the more pertinent is because people in both camps are not using the same measuring stick. Of course the price of non-debt based things we need everyday like food and energy are going up, when measured in USD. But what about measured in gold? About the same it looks like, maybe even some deflation. Hence no inflation if you measure in gold, and extreme deflation if you measure against debt based assets like real estate.

      But what about if you’re measuring in US dollars? You have extreme price inflation with respect to food and energy, and debt-based assets that appear “inflated” than would otherwise be. In other words the “value” of all debt-based assets will continue to be propped up with an inflated dollar, and eventually that bubble bursts too.

      But because we don’t have a gold standard anymore, it’s irrelevant to price things in relation to gold, unless you’re a gold investor. So priced in dollars we have this bi-flation phenomena, which really should be mass deflation but the Federal Reserve keeps trying to prop up asset prices. The collateral damage is that food and energy prices will be propped up too.

      Because of this I have to argue that there can ONLY BE INFLATION from this point onward. There can never be deflation like we ever experienced during the Great Depression.

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    26. lostinmissouri says:

      imho…..This is just another “American lie”……”You have to send your kids to college.”     Yeah, that’s it…..saddle your offspring, with thousands of dollars of debt,  before you send them out into the cruel, cruel world.

      My bet is that 80% of the dropouts and graduates,  would have been a whole lot better off,  paying for a house,  or starting a business, with those thousands, wasted at some “bleeding heart liberal indoctrination clinic”,  called college.

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    27. clark says:

      I really liked what JANE said:

      “There is no disgrace in living with your parents.”

      No doubt, just like renting isn’t throwing away money.

      Children moving in with their extended family and vise versa makes good survival sense. Even those who don’t have to may consider it as a part of the tactic of living beneath your means to improve savings and help to try and maintain your standard of living. Not to mention having extra help to keep an eye on things.

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    28. Kyle says:

      Comments…..Any  24 yr or older college grad who has moved back home is a MAMAs BOY while 18 yr olds are dying in the service of our country! Whats next, the 40 year old virgin still living at home with mommy? These colleges are graduating girly boys!!!

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    29. henry says:

      I hope this generation will learn from this experience.  They were sold ‘hope’.  This was a lie.  I thought that Clinton was the worst president possible.  Then we got Bush who was worst than Clinton.  I thought Bush was the worst president possible.  Then we got Obama who is worst than Bush.  Can it possibly get worse than Obama?  Yes.  Any candidate that does not advocate constitutional government should not be elected.  Ron Paul is the only candidate on the scene today that this generation should vote for.

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    30. Luuby says:

      It wouldn’t  matter one bit if America was still on the gold standard or not. 

      America would still be 13.9 trillion in debt.

      The moochers would still be mooching.

      They would still find a way to create money out of thin air.

      The middle man (the fed) would still skim trillions as service to the debt.

      Nothing is going to change until it all stops.

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    31. clark says:

      When someone says, “It wouldn’t  matter one bit if America was still on the gold standard or not.” they obviously have no clue how a gold standard works and how it prevents the excess of debt, spending and wars for Empire.

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    32. Higher education from college to technical training can be helpful in getting a better paying job but you need to look at were long term needs are or might be. Medical needs will continue to rise as will services to boomers and new startups will need to be planned carefully but are still easier in the US than in any other country on earth. They glass may be half full and dirty but it still holds water so take a drink, take a breath, look around and reassess. Think outside the box or make your own box. Isn’t that the American Way?

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    33. Durango Kidd says:

      GC: I agree that a college education is not for everyone, and in particular, it is not necessary to have one to be a retail store manager.

      If I had wanted to be a retail manager I would not have risked my life in Viet Nam to qualify for the GI Bill, which was the only way that I would ever be able to pay for that education: and that education at a State University, not a private institution for $13,000 a year, like Rick Blaine.
       
      The value of a university education is the critical thinking and exposure that it gives you to a wide range of ideas, values, and perspectives in general; and specific training in topics not easily obtained anywhere else. ie. Engineering, Finance, Economics, etc.

      For my part, it was the foundation that gave me the real estate and financial skills required to become a Certified General Real Estate Appraiser, the Chief Appraiser for a Major Bank (still standing), move into shopping center development, and then recognize the opportunity and have the skills to construct a $50 million leveraged buyout of 80 fast food restaurants; and have my choice of two money center banks to take them public, take the profit and move on into mining and oil and gas development.

      With an interest in and an education in geology, I was able to recognize the non-conforming rock strata while out four wheeling to understand that I was looking at a valuable asset. An asset that people had been walking past for one hundred and fifty years. Granted not everyone may have that insight. But everyone has opportunity. The key is that one must be prepared in advance to take advantage of an opportunity and that requires constant learning, and a continuing initiative, before opportunity presents itself: or like everyone else for 150 years, I would have walked past my good fortune like everyone else did.

      A university education is not a guaranteed ticket to the big time if you were born “on the other side of the tracks” like I was. But a professional education and the independence it provides for those with the ability and determination to succeed, sure beats the hell out of working in the steel mills, or a retail store for 20 years.

      As for these “internet millionaires” that a few people here have touted, the infomation that I have seen, suggests that those who have made this money have done so conning others to send them money for “secret systems” and show you a copy of their Ad sense account that describes the enormous sums of money that they have made scamming others, by teaching them how to set up adsense ads on their Blog! lol

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    34. Durango Kidd says:

      Hey Rick! Thanks again for the response. I’m sitting at Micky D’s and just lost a half an hour response to you. Can’t take the time to replace it now, catch ‘ya later!

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    35. Jane says:

      Boys these days think too much with their egos instead of their minds and their hearts.  There is nothing wrong with living with your parents when you need help or want to save money.
       
      Besides, you have someone to guide you through difficult times and help you out.  Save money to survive through this pending economic disaster.  It is better to be prepared ……….

      We call these WISEMEN!!

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    36. JANE says:

      When living alone, young men tend to Hang out with useless and childish friends, do drugs or get drunk or/and party every night and then become depressed. That doesn’t make you so TOUGH, does it?

      …………. Just a LOSER and DESTROYS YOUR LIFE.
       
      Live a useful life with your loved ones, be happy and stay active.

      A sinking dollar signals trouble ahead and I hope you’re well prepared for this.

      btw, be aware of the upcoming WWIII  -  By comparison it will make all previous wars look like childs play!!!!!

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    37. Comments…..  until election advertising is illegal-there will be no freedom

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    38. Durango Kidd says:

      Wrong Don: Until election advertising is FREE to qualified candidates, there will be no freedom. These are OUR airwaves and qualified candidates should get equal time. ALL candidates should get the same amount of free air time to express their views and state their case, and let the people make their choice.

      The Lame Stream Media makes a fortune selling OUR air waves to political candidates and parties. FREE election air time for qualified candidates should be part of the cost of their doing business on OUR air waves!

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    39. Durango Kidd says:

      Rick Blaine; Hi Rick, sorry I have taken so long to get back to you, but I have had a good excuse.

      I don’t think you should equate the cost of your college education which was private and therefore priviledged, and the cost of a quality education at a public university; which is where most students go and where most loans are taken out.

      Academic standing aside, lets use ASU as an example, and I am assuming that it is similar to State sponsored universities across the country that support and are supported by, their resident major population centers.

      The cost of annual tuition at ASU is currently about $6 -7,000. But students can live at home and and attend community college for two years to get the core requirements under their belt. Students can also work summers, do work study, and work part time off campus during the school year to reduce the cost.

      When I attended ASU I did help  make it Playboys Number One Party School in the nation, for which I am quite proud! But I also paid my own way, my own apartment, and a new camero while attending as a Viet Nam Veteran, and an independent student on my own. I worked part time on and off campus, and still, somehow managed to get my name on a plaque that is now collecting dust in a closet somewhere in the business building. All without a loan.

      The key is you have to be motivated. In hindsite, I might have taken a loan or two, but it wasn’t needed, and I managed to get enough of an education to become a professional and financially successful enough to please myself.

      Financially, college grads typically make about one million more dollars over the course of their lifetime than those with only a high school education.

      That difference easily pays for any loan amounts that are borrowed and repaid with interest in dollars that are worth considerably less due to inflation, for a run of the mill BA or BS degree. It also determines what type of job at which you will be working, and to whom you will be answering.

      A four year degree is essential to anyone with aspirations of being self employed, opening their own business, or intending to go to Grad school for advanced degrees. For some jobs with professional status like Paralegal, a classification with which you are familar Rick as an attorney, a four year degree is a pre-requiste to advanced training.

      My advice to anyone is to know yourself, discover what you are interested in, and you will probably discover that is where your apttitude lies. Then pursue your education of that subject with passion. You will probably find a way to make a living at it and be happy about your life. If not, go back to school when the economy is bad, borrow the money if necessary, and find yourself anew. Life is about expressing what is inside, outside. Do it with passion but try not to make an ass of yourself doing so.

      Have I broken my own rules? lol

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    40. John says:

      Remember reading about Weimar Germany? Remember how it was before the Nazis took over? Remember those old photos of a German going into a store with a wheelbarrow piled with bundles of cash and coming out with only a bar of soap?

      That’s what’s coming to America if our beloved politicians don’t wake up and stop printing so much damned money.

      Maybe, just maybe, if there’s a conservative sweep come Nov. 2 (2010), the new politicos will do the right thing. Am I dreaming? Or can we still hope?

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    41. clark says:

      How Much Is That Bachelor’s Degree Really Worth?
      The Million Dollar Misunderstanding

      “Many claim that a college degree is worth a million dollars, but like so many other “facts” about higher education in the United States, it is not quite right. Indeed, using a set of reasonable assumptions that factors in school selectivity, the cost of a college education, and foregone wages, I show that the million dollar figure is grossly inflated, and may be three times too high.”

      http://www.aei.org/outlook/100034

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    42. Shannon says:

      I went to a small public university, worked full-time or nearly full-time waiting tables and doing call center work, and still left school with over $40,000 in debt. Now, I’m still stuck in a call-center, although I do make a dollar more an hour than I did in college. When I look around me, almost all of my co-workers are also struggling to pay off student-loan debt. If moving back in with my parents was actually an option for me, I would do it in a heart-beat. I feel a little trapped/over-whelmed from all of the debt, but I still feel like my education was worth it. Even if I have to default on my loans (which I refuse to do), they still can’t repossess my knowledge!

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