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    Gerald Celente Forecasts 2012: Where are the safe haven nations?

    Mac Slavo
    October 14th, 2009
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (82)
    Read by 1,726 people

    In the Fall 2009 Trends Journal, Gerald Celente spends some time discussing the state of nations around the globe circa 2012. And it’s not pretty, with only a handful of nations avoiding economic and social meltdown.

    Flash Forward to 2012.

    Despite differences between the 1930’s Great Depression and today’s “Greatest Depression,” unsettling similarities conjure up memories of pre-World War II. From the United Kingdom to Russia, war drums eerily beat.

    China, Vietnam, Indonesia, Singapore — all countries that ramped up production to meet insatiable business and consumer demands of the prior decade — fight for survival.

    Japan, Taiwan and South Korea, long industrialized and export driven, blame China for their mounting trade imbalances, internal strife and Southeast Asian instability.

    Mexico, once the US resort/retirement retreat, is as dangerous as the Congo, and its government — what’s left of it — is equally ruthless.

    Across much of South America, depression, coups and wars prevail; few nations have been spared.

    Oil-rich nations, having sunk trillions and lost trillions in high stakes investments, are trying to cope with internal rebellion and decreased demand for their only cash crop.

    India’s miracle economy has run out of miracle, pushing it back into Third World conditions. Incessant flare-ups with Pakistan carry nuclear implications.

    Canada, Australia and New Zealand are not in great shape, but compared to most other nations, they seem like paradise.

    For those considering bugging out before SHTF, your choices seem to be somewhat limited. Before making an significant changes in your life, such as moving your family to another country, think about the economic, social and political stability in your destination country.

    One other consideration: In the event of a complete meltdown of the global economic systems, immigrating to a new country will be quite difficult, if not impossible. Protectionist measures will certainly be in place, as no country will want to take away jobs from their citizens to give to immigrants. Therefore, if you plan on leaving your home country, it is recommended that your plans are in place and executed before a meltdown in your home country occurs.

    Related forecasts from Gerald Celente:

    Gerald Celente: It’s more than just the demise of the dollar. This is going to be felt worldwide (October 2009)

    Gerald Celente: This is Big. We Can Even See the Breakup of America Like The Soviet Union.

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    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 1,726 people
    Date: October 14th, 2009
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

     

    82 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. Bama Blue says:

      This is a question that I have been wanting to know. 

      What will be the safest countries to move a family to when SHTF?

      I know that one single country may not be the correct answer, because of peoples different circumstances.  But I am sure that we could all agree on a Top 5 List.  Where will the smart Americans go to live and eventually re-group?  Where is all the smart money going?

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

    2. I actually checked into the immigration requirements for a few countries a while back, and it’s not as easy as one might think to just pack up and become an ex-pat.  For example, New Zealand has requirements regarding age and financial stability.  I even looked into Switzerland’s requirements, and you can pretty much forget about it unless you’re a millionaire or an EU citizen.  Who would have thought there would be a time when patriotic, hard working Americans would give serious thought to immigrating to another country?

      Lisa
      thesurvivalmom.com

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    3. Lisa, great comment. Immigration requirements are definitely strict insofar as financial stability is concerned. This is probably the single biggest factor for immigrants to “rich” safehaven countries. No country wants an immigrant who is not financially stable, or will take a job from their own citizens (except the US, of course :) ).

      Here is a Top 5 list, in my personal opinion (in no particular order):

      New Zealand
      Australia
      Canada
      Brazil
      Costa Rica

      The first three because it would be much easier to blend in. Canada is great because of the proximity to the US, for those with family here.

      Brazil, NZ, Australia because they should benefit from the Asian bull market resulting from resource exports (oil, agriculture, mining).

      Costa Rica because it’s quite cheap to buy land and cost of living.
      There are other countries out there, of course. This is just a list off the top of my head.

      You’ll notice I didn’t mention Asian countries — not because they are not safehavens (Thailand, Singapore) but because I am not a big fan of living in Asia.

      Here is an excellent resource site to look at: http://www.internationalliving.com/

      Their reports are comprehensive and well worth the money.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • poppie says:

        The next move of the “government” seems will be the erasure of the U.S. border with Canada and super-highway construction for a new North American nation. Am I wrong that Canada seems like a pretty g.d.dumb destination?

        And, Costa Rican english media is prestitute of Bilderberg too, and now (summer 2011) they have 200 “U.S.” choppers and 40 Navy ships surrounding and infesting it; pretty g.d. home-y. Recall that Costa Rica is in the Coalition of the Willing Cheney Sluts Pact – to, uh, massacre 3K statespeople in Manhattan and a healthy million “democratic events” (murders) of Mid-Easterners, by U.S. tax dollars? At least it’s not “next” to the U.S. like Canada, it’s rugged, and the natives “aren’t too tractable” as workers for Bilderberg shock and awe there.

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    4. I agree.  I like NZ, Australia and Canada for the same reasons mentioned.  And Brazil for all the natural resources and strong currency.  I really like Costa Rica because it has the reputaton of being an independent country and expat friendly.  There is also Panama that has popped-up on the expat radar over the last several years.

      In your opinion, when SHTF, how will these countries be effected?  Are there other places that people are looking at (ie. Bahamas, US Virgin islands, Argentina, Panama and etc.)?

      Just trying to get as much info as possible. 

      Thanks

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    5. I think Panama may be ok too. Overall I have a problem with South America and Central America just because of the historic instability of those regions. But, it looks like Brazil, and even Argentina are trying to pull it together over there.

      I do think people are also looking at the Bahamas, Cayman and other islands, but immigration requirements there include financial stability requirements or domestic investment, I believe. So for middle class individuals without a lot of money in savings, those will be difficult.

      In response to what will happen in the countries listed in my Top 5, I admit that I don’t know!

      They seem to be pretty solid, but the fact is, even Canada, Australia and NZ seem as if they lean a little to the left. But, not as far left as the US is headed, at least for now.

      If China collapses for a bit, then even NZ and Australia are going to be hurting, as well as Brazil. I think that it will be difficult to escape the pain, especially for anyone in the middle class. If you’re rich, you’re probably good to go anywhere.

      The rule of law is the important factor here, and I believe this is why capital will concentrate outside of the USA in coming years. Foreigners are losing trust in the laws that made this country great. Look what happened to the Chrysler bond holders. This should be a major red flag for anyone concerned about the rule of law. The bond holders were overidden by a judge’s order and what they thought was protected by law… wasn’t! All because one person’s interpretation (of course there is probably a massive conspiracy behind all of this). But, it goes to show that nothing, not even the rule of law, is sacred in this country anymore. It is was the very foundation of the USA. 

      The government is coming after personal wealth, and they will stop at nothing to get it. This is, I believe, why there are many individuals looking at leaving for now.

      It seems that at least in the aforementioned countries, some semblence of the rule of law still exisits, plus they seem to be politically stable. These, IMHO, are the most important things to look at. As mentioned, the economic situation globally is going to hurt, probably. So, taking that out of consideration, the rule of law seems to be the big factor.

      Any thoughts are appreciated. I am still trying to sort all of this out myself.

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    6. I admire Gerald Celente, but lately he’s going out of his mind! What is the matter with him? Saying that “Mexico, once the US resort/retirement retreat, is as dangerous as the Congo…” is an atrocious lie and complete ignorance on his part.
      Seriously, is he losing his mind?!
      Mexico IS NOT that dangerous. I bet he has never traveled to Mexico. I live and work in Mexico and the US loves to make look Mexico like a very dangerous place so the US citizens don’t come here to spend the little money they have left! PROTECTIONISM.
      And the worst thing of all, is that Gerald Celente is falling into the same trap and lies of HIS GOVERNMENT.
      That is really sad and pathetic that someone, I thought to be smart, would say something so ignorant about Mexico.
      I used to admire him and believe him. Now I doubt him.  Gerald Celente just lost credibility and my respect as a trend specialist.
      Sincerely,
      Dr. Martha Castro, MD

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

      • Kevin says:

        Hi Ms Castro.
        I must tell you that I have lived all over the world and the only place that i was ever kidnapped was in Mexico.
        It may not be as bad as the Congo, but it can be pretty nasty at times..

        Kevin

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    7. Christine says:

      Comments…..
      As an expat for the last 20 years I would like to add my two cents, (backed by gold of course!).
      1.  The idea of living on an island might seem heavenly now, but there are dangers.  I lived on an island for 5 years in the Indian Ocean.  During  WWII( the oldtimers say)  the island was forgotten by the rest of the world and supplies were either very slow in coming or just didn’t come.  Cases of malnutrition and extreme hunger and in some cases starvation happened.  On an island you may keep danger at bay, but you also keep help at bay.  Obviously NZ, even though an island, wouldn’t be included in this example.  The Caymans would be though.
      2.  When the going gets tough, people help their own.  If you are an immigrant in another country, trying to communicate in a language you’re not too familiar with, you will probably be the last person on the list of people to help.  How many immigrants in the US have you helped today, this week, this month?  We, people, humans, we are just like that.    Immigrating to a foreign country puts you in a position of weakness.  I speak from personal experience and the experience of family members who are immigrants to the US.
      3. Strengthen the community that you live in.  If  your town is “too big” find a smaller/safer one and move.  Get to know your neighbors and develope your talents.
      Everyone will have the same problems when the SHTF, no matter where they live.  If we base our assumptions on Celente’s forecasts, it will be global and we won’t be able to out run them.  We are better off preparing for the basics and making sure family and friends are safe and nearby.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

      • poppie says:

        that’s cool; thanks a lot. but i think there is a consummately colossal point in-limbo in your shot:

        whether to leave the u.s. is different from whether to leave other countries. the u.s. is a slobby beast unlike others: it is the pilot state of bilderberg: it is the target to use a bankster money press to literally demoralize and sink a country: it is the lion’s den. in an area of 20-30 thousand population, i hardly need a hand to count the number of people who have any remote hint of purchase on the crazy unprecedented evil vail that has grown for centuries and is about to complete its occlusion over this earth’s face and re-commense this century’s atrocities techno style.

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    8. Mac Slavo says:

      Dr. Castro, please note that Mr. Celente’s forecasts are written with a twist. You must flash forward to 2012 while reading. He is not suggesting that Mexico (or the other countries) are in this state right now. His vantage point is 2012, so imagine you are in 2012 reading an overview of what has happened.

      Mac

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    9. Mac Slavo says:

      Christine, all very very good points.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

    10. Bob Ketchen says:

      Dr. Castro , With all due respect sir , while on vacation in Mexico a good friend and his dad were pulled over by a police man and told give me all your money or go to jail . Thay had done nothing wrong but got robbed by a cop !!!  Mexico has laws that are very unfriendly to ex pats , NO ACCESS to the court system if you are wronged there you cannot sue , IF the gov’t wants to thay can come in and consficate the property you have purchased !!!  again… NO RECOURSE you can’t fight it .  Most folks will not speak english, even if thay know it  its spanish ONLY .  And finaly the drug lords RULE , thay have the true power there so do not get in the way or you pay with your life . MEXICO ? NO THANKS .  I will stay here and find a quiet piece of ground out in the country side .  Not one other country measures up to this one , even with all of its faults and wackos who rule here !!

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      • Max says:

        Lordy Lordy Lordy … Your friend is a story teller, none of the above is true … easy to make up gemes and come home a hero right … I think you and your friend are ADDLEPATED

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

      • poppie says:

        bob dood. yours is a case study. terrible but still a case study – mexico is huge. if people fear rogue cops THEY SHOULDN’T GO TO COSTA RICA, because I gotta tell you – i cannot fathom the likelihood that mexico could be worse. every horrific addition you provide about mexico is a facsimile of costa rica though i anticipate that costa rica is much more cheery-cultured than mexico due to staggering size numbers and myriad micro spots re law environment. there is a heavy presence of poor, hellishly drugged-out citizens in costa rica but indeed i did not detect one drug lord – once again mexico is staggeringly huge and thus completely location-variable. how do you know about the other countries, to subjugate their merit to that of the u.s.? the crazy mob of mo-fro’s raping the u.s. know no rural bounds; those new nazi’s just cooked-up an arm for rural homeland security. and look up and see their raytheon corporation’s streaks across your sky in the d.o.d. airspace growing into a thick cloud cover for your meteorological ecstasy.

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    11. Bob, I think you make a very good point. With all the problems we have here in the US, there is a much more serious issue in other countries, and odds are they will deteriorate much faster. For those in the middle class, your “bug-out” plan seems like the only way to go. Get out of the cities, especially if you are close to Mexico, and get prepped for whatever may be around the corner. Immigrating to another country is simply no realistic if one does not have the money to make the move.

      Again, it seems to me that the key factor at play is the rule of law. When this is gone, you should be too. Mexico is a disaster and has even less respect for the rule of law than the US.

      Celente is right, Mexico will be the Congo a few years from now. It is a totally corrupt state and is getting worse. What worries me is the flow of crime from Mexico across US borders into states like Texas, New Mexico and Arizona.

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      • poppie says:

        more serious issues in other countries than a brainwashed u.s. population??? each u.s. child is now born without a spine – is the spine regeneration time as rapid as the council-of-seven’s strike time? the very best that we can hope of the u.s. population is their rhodes-engineered virtue of denial.

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    12. AlaBill says:

      Australia for me is a top destination due to the fact that I expect it’s currency to be strong and get stronger due to it’s natural resource base.

      At this time I would much prefer to own Australian dollars than American. Property values are however extremely high is desirable areas around Sydney and Melbourne.

      I have not yet looked it Australian immigration requirements for Americans.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    13. Mac Slavo says:

      Australia is cool, I think. They will benefit from Asia capital concentration and growth.

      I can’t find the link, but there was an excellent interview about 3 – 4 months back regarding the Australian real estate market and how it may also get slammed down in the near future. If one were to expatriate to Australia in the near future, perhaps renting would be a good option until one gets a sense of where the real estate is heading.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

    14. You do not mention the possibility that an American state will secede and could become a Safe Haven Nation. Any comment?

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    15. Mac Slavo says:

      Russ,

      While I do not necessarily support secession by an state in the union because I don’t think it has come to that, it is a very interesting consideration indeed.

      I guess it would all depend on the stability of the new nation. Would a peaceful secession ever be allowed? I find it difficult to believe that there would not be violence (on both sides). Even if an entire State congressional body were to unanimously vote for secession there would inevitably be conflict with the Federal government.

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    16. Sam says:

      One little problem with Australia: water.  It’s basically a huge desert with a livable coastline–and not all of that, unless you like the natural environment and climate of N. Queensland, which is like the Solomon Islands and New Guinea.

      As for Mexico, it will depend on the area. I live in Mexico. It is certainly a highly corrupt country–but then, so is the US; it’s just that in the US it is more institutionalized, as witness Wall St. – Gov’t collusion.  Yes, Mexican cops like to get a little spare cash from Gringos–big deal.  The real problem, in the long run, is the drug trade overwhelming state governments. But Mexicans are very live and let live in many respects, whereas the government is almost always worse.  When the going gets very tough, human beings are capable of the worst savagery.  The only solution is civic association–and admittedly, this is a Latin weak point.  They only care about family, and civic virtues and values are decidedly in second place.

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    17. jonathan brouder says:

      I think the number one country will be Norway, because of its financial, social stability as well as it proven oil reserves, sweden, finland ireland switzerland austria, austalia canada and new zealand, are also the only sustainable countries left in the world, any one of which to me is desireable, iceland and ireland are  two wild cards because of financial  debt, which in my opinion will be wiped clean when the anglo american banking empire collapses,  Canada is a wild card because of its proximity to the US which will be ground zero of this apacolyptic scenario, and will be unable to control it border, after these countries, argentina, chile, brazil, would be next, these countries are not overpopulated and have valuable resources, worst countries would be US number one, folllowed by Isreal, which is basically a vassel state of the US empire and is recieveing 23,000 in subsidies per person and still can’t manage to keep a decent economy going,  plus is hated around the world even more then america, after that, china india, subsahran africa are all doomed to overpopulation and chaotic civil wars

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    18. Mac Slavo says:

      great stuff Jonathan!

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    19. I forgot about denmark and belgium which are also on the list of sustainable places, denmark get about 40 percent of its power from wind, wind and wave power if properly inplemented can be a boon to these countries although they will still need some natural gas or oil to supplement certain areas especially in transportation, plastics,  mining and refining, ireland is situated in an area which has some of the greatest wind and wave potential in the world, it could theoretically be the wave/wind saudiarabia of europe, but his would take massive infrastructure investment which could be problematic after the banking system collapses, perhaps these countries could form a new union, union of sustainable states and cooperate with each other in order to preserve their culture people and standard of living

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

      • Jeanette says:

        Denmark is pegged to the Euro and somewhat at risk. But my thinking is that if you can stay relatively debt free with only ‘forever fixed rate realkredits’ debt and no banking debt, you are ok. It is absolutely possible to get at very cheap house in Denmark if it is far form the cities (e.g . Lolland, thy)- 50000 kr in forclosure if you look around.
        A danish passport gives you the right to stay in Norway and Sweden forever but it is very difficult to get.
        Danish weather is not exactly perfect but it is warmer then Norway and with a lot of rain. The water supply is excellent, Plenty of clean groundwater.
        The tax rate is VERY high.
        Politically the situation is no ware near as bad as the US.

        just I case you wanted to know from someone who lives here :-)
        US

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        • Anonymous says:

          You live in Denmark? Most if my grandfather’s family came to the United States from there, not sure the area. Last name is Wilbeck. This has leaked my interest greatly.

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    20. TIllamook says:

      Without a doubt, Norway is the first choice. They have natural resources, political stability, and they are NOT an EU member.  They require you to learn the language and live there for several years before you get citizenship, though. 

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    21. I just got my irish passport which means i can go anywhere in the EU, and I urge anyone of the swiss norwegian,irish, australian,danish, flemish, australian, new zealander,austrian,finnish, or swedish diaspora to get citizenship there now and constantly look at airlione prices from your respected residances, also go to MIdas resources or another gold and silver dealer and buy gold and silver and transported their ahead of you, my family just recently bought a house in Ireland, and is fixing it up as I write this, although ireland is no norway, it still had good farmland stable climate homegnous population and can support at least 8 million people with out artificial fertilizer, which is what it was in 1844 before the famine plus they are finding new natural gas reserves their everyday, which is the main ingrediant in artificial fertilizer, it also has the potential for wind and wave power,

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    22. Jim says:

      Norway is cold.  And cloudy. Norwegians like to go to Greece and Spain and Italy, and with good reason.  Ditto for the rest of Northern Europe.  The only time to visit Norway–or Sweden or Finland or Denmark or Belgium or Ireland–is the summer (and a very short summer it is).  But, to each his own. 

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    23. Jim says:

      As for Canada–it’s not for nothing that droves of them flee the country for six months of the year.   And their political systems is as close to verging on totalitarianism as is the US. 

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    24. jim you are completely missing the point im talking survival your talking where the best place to vacation is, when airline tickets to greece for one are 20 thousand dollars a piece, bread is 200 dollars a loaf, your not gonna be worried about sunshine

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    25. Actually, my point is just that I wouldn’t care to live where it’s cold–even lots of Norwegians don’t like to live in Norway, and like to leave as often as they can afford it.  So if I am going to choose where to “survive,” it sure as heck isn’t going to be where I could freeze to death, or where I need  a lot of liquor to fend off the winter SAD.  And my second point is that I would bet you that there are plenty of people who share my viewpoint.  But, like I said, to each his own.  With a little intelligence and adaptability, one can make a good life in lots of places–people did that for thousands of years.  Modern Westerners are individualists, whereas the key is the neighbor, the community.

      By the way, the Canadians in Mexico are not there to vacation.  They are there to escape the Canadian winter.  They’ve bought homes here.  The only reason they return to Canada for 6 months is to be eligible for their health benefits–and to see family, of course.

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    26. I sympathize with Dr. Castro’s point of view.  I live in Mexico–14 years.  There is zero danger from drug violence.  The violence affects other drug traffickers as well as certain public officials who “get in the way.”  Is it being handled?  You bet.  Don’t forget, there was a time when gangsters literally controlled Chicago, and came close to controlling Washington.  They were eventually exterminated.  It will happen.  It just takes time. Don’t be fooled by sensationalist media and idiotic talking heads.  You’re a hell of a lot safer here than in most US places, believe me.  Let me ask you a question. Would you let your 8 year old daughter walk home with her little friends alone without adults, or get on a city bus alone to go to school in the US?  Well, it’s a commonplace here.  Are there exceptions?  Of course:  Mexico City, border cities, and few others.  On the whole it is a very safe place to live.  The people are warm and super hospitable on the whole. Celente may be very good in some areas, but he is not a divinity.  To see Mexico as the Congo in 3 years is–shall we say, selective choosing of facts.

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    27. After the collapse of the USA there will be at least 40 million refugees streaming into mexico at once, and if you think the natives of mexico will be welcoming of you and care if you like warm weather you are delusional, that country has been exporting its problems to the US for the past thirty years namely its vast unemployed un educated peasnt mestizo masses which are all goona be foreced to return home when their is no food jobs or shelter in the US  and these people which chop your head off as to look at you, thier is gonna be a viruntley racist aztlan la raza communist movemant in mexico which will target the gringo masses attempting to sneak across their border, if you think it wil b etter their your as good s dead, their is going to be famine, water shortages and a complete breakdown of society in the continant we call north america, your better of going to Australia or brazil f youlikearm weather

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    28. peter schiff alex jones celente, this russian guy panarin, andothers are comparing the collapse of america to russia or argentina, or the british or roman empires, i beleve that the country we should be comparing us to is the breakup of Yugoslavia in the early 90′s, it was a countyr of varios ethinic groups who had historic animosities toward each other from past atrocites etc that we united under a economic system called communism, this system kept the people from killing each other because it gave people hope and food and shelter as well as stability. as soon as the system collapsed starting with hyperinflation you had chaos civil war and genocide and the same thing will happen here we are no differant than anyone else,
      land in montana, north south dakota, wisconsin kansas, idaho  and other midwestern staes will go from having the least valuable land to havign the most valuable land as that is where most of the remaining farm land will be, you are starting to see it now, if you chck out inflation.us onyoutube their is a short show on idaho and how people are fleeing california for it

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    29. Sam says:

      Re: After the collapse of the USA there will be at least 40 million refugees streaming into mexico at once

      Please post your email.  Seers who can predict with this kind of accuracy are rare. 
      ——————————————————-

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    30. kerryman86@aol.com, I appreciate your eye for talent sam

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    31. Bama Blue says:

      How do you feel about Central America (namely Costa Rica and Panama)?  These are two countries that we have been looking at.

      Thanks,

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    32. Sam says:

      The last time I was in Cost Rica was over 10 years ago. Everything I know since then is from friends and reading forums and such.  Doug Casey says it’s gotten relatively expensive.  Coastal land tends to get pricey, and you have to reckon with the downsides of the humid tropics–it’s one thing to live and another to vacation.  As for Panama, my knowledge is entirely bookish, so I won’t say anything, since you can read the same material I do.

      I think the number one rule is: rent at least for 6 months, and be prepared to keep renting until you find your spot.  And you may find renting is the way to go–you keep your capital, and can invest it in other ways: apartments,  gold, farmland, whatever. And you can leave in a moment.

      The least expensive tropical coastal land in Latin America right now is probably Ecuador, followed by Nicaragua. Once you get away from the Mexican tourist areas, you really you should know some Spanish or have great contacts. If you want cooler winter weather and warm humid summers, the least expensive would probably be Uruguay–but it’s far from relatives, if that’s important to you.  For inland living, Argentina is very attractive. 

      Google these countries and add + forums, + blog.  Look at Expat World.   Try to establish some communication and get first-hand information.  Even then, opinions will vary.  Realtor sites require large doses of salt.

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    33. judy miller says:

      …anywhere there are nuke energy plants , and/or nuke bombs stored are not going to be safe to live in if extreme lawlessness or cataclysmic events like earthquakes and volcanos occur – as some scientists have predicted for 2012.

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    34. KPN says:

      Hi Everyone,

      I’ve read many of the posts here and I don’t think I’ve seen one person use the correct term when referring to themselves leaving their home country to go to another.  It’s EMMIGRATING guys, not “immigrating”!

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    35. Khalilah says:

      I live in Japan but I am from the USA….specifically Alabama.   I have lived here for over five years so I know a bit of the language and I have many friends here.  I have constantly been searching for Japan’s position in the economic downturn.  Japan does have problems in the economy but it is better than in the usa.  What worries me is the amount of reliance economically the Japanese people have on the USA.  I feel like Japan is pretty safe for now and if something happens, I have a house with a patch of farmland in the north of Japan that I can always go to.

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    36. Olga says:

      It’s scarry, but it’s happening! The taxes are being raised – extra tax if you are aerning over $250K… my family member is being pushed out of the construction business because he is not “big enough”, so the state & city laws are killing him with “necessary”paperwork that he can’t have by defenition! It all adds up! Also, if the shit hits the fan, there are so namy nations and races in this cocuntry, especially in big cties. I can only imagine what will happen in NYC on day one! It will be  a major racial war! People will probably start killing… I’m seriously thinking of Argentina. The countyr is relatively stable (compared to other SA countries), people are cultured for the most part, and it’s very cheap to live. I wanted to move 2 years ago, but got caught u with the money… don’t know how safe it is gona be though… at least they have a lot of natural resuouses, land to farm, and a nice climate. Any thoughts on that? Thanks!

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    37. Kerrie says:

      I fail to see how moving to a different country will help when the whole world will be affected, wouldn’t we be better off in the country we are most familiar with…our own country!
      I think people (including Gerald Celente) are looking at some countries with rose coloured glasses. Australia wasn’t excluded from suffering in the last depression and nor will we be this time around.
      Australia’s immigration requirements are very tough in order to keep people out and I really don’t think a mass arrival of Americans would be any more welcome here than anywhere else.
      Real Estate is in a huge bubble here and ready to burst…as it is in many other countries and our economy was only saved by government stimulus that will like elsewhere come back to bite us all on the butt.
      I don’t plan on leaving my country and I don’t really want a pile of foreigners arriving on our shores to make it even tougher.
      Australia only has 20 million people in a land area not much smaller than USA but our land can only support a small population, so whilst it may seem very spacious, most of it cannot support life and I have no intention of living in the dessert to make room for foreigners.
      Utopia doesn’t really exist….make the most of where you are!

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    38. zukadu says:

      Don’t worry Kerrie! We Americans will not  invade Australia! (Its New Zealand we want!)   :-)

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    39. zukadu says:

      Khalilah:    Noticed that you live in Japan. Would like to recommend “Earth Changes” by Edgar Cayce from A.R.E. 
      More than 70 years ago, he predicted the rise of China and the destruction of Japan by physical forces: i.e. earth changes, saying, “The greater portion of Japan must go into the sea”.

      Recent events seem to indicate that the Ring of Fire is starting to fire up ….. Maybe you should come home.

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    40. james cairn says:

      I am a New Zealander currently living in the UK. So it is very interesting reading some of the comments from other users about NZ. One common misconception about NZ is that it is a resource rich country – it is not especially so in my opinion. Yes, there is plenty of green grass, but not a great deal of too much else that has been discovered anyhow. There is only very small scale production of oil and gas, certainly not enough for the countries energy needs. Very little in the way of mining.

      The best things going for NZ in my opinion are: 1) 4 million population – low. No overcrowding and plenty of food to go around. 2) English speaking with rule of law. 3) Temperate climate with a number of micro climate areas to choose from. 4) NZ has no real enemies in the world. 5) Most electricity comes from renewable hydro. 6) Potential for some resource finds, eg offshore oil and gas, but like I say, if it’s there in significant quantities, it hasn’t been found yet. 7) NZ ‘owns’ a decent chunk of Antartica, so in the very long run, there could be resources to be had down there.

      Things against NZ: 1) Still stubbornly near the peak of a huge economy-sapping property bubble. Private indebtedness to offshore banks is very high. 2) Persistent inflation, underreported by the authorities. 3) Small economy means highly specialised individuals will struggle to find work. 4) Internet infrastructure poor. eg, unlimited broadband packages are not available at any price. 5) NZ has virtually no military. If it is ever invaded by an external force, it’s toast unless Australia or USA comes to the rescue. 6) Very few if any listed companies to invest in with durable competitive advantages. Investment options in NZ are very limited.

      That’s my 5 cents worth.

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    41. Kathy says:

      My city has already gone Chinese.  I expect the surrounding area will go Chinese within a few years.  They are into politics, and I find they are pretty fair-minded and reasonable.  Also, they make nice quiet neighbors.   If this is how it has to be, all I can say is:  So far, so good.

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    42. Kerrie says:

      That was a good laugh James :-)

      But don’t forget about the sheep that eat your green grass.

      Hmmmm…Now I guess if people really want to come to Australia they could spend their time on Christmas Island in the detention centre.

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    43. mkarthy says:

      What about the EU countries? Has Celente anything to say about those? I live in Finland right now.

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    44. well, he recently said “getting out of the dollar and going to the Euro is like going from the Titanic to the Lusitania for safety”. (paraphrased). I believe it was from this interview.

      My personal view is that the Euro and the EU as we know it will fall apart over the course of the next decade. It’s a disaster waiting to happen.

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    45. mkarthy says:

      Well it all depends what one understands by “falling apart”. If you mean that countries will go back to what they were prior to the EU, especially the most recent ones, that doesn’t necessarily imply a major catastrophe. As far as the euro is concerned I tend to share your opinion.

      Would it be possible for you to share more of that small part of the trends journal of fall 2009 if there are more references to other countries than those already mentioned? If the trends research institute doesn’t mind of course.

      I was wondering what he means exactly by ” war drums eerily beat” from the UK to Russia. Is it that Europe will be at war within it’s own territory or that the whole world will be engaging in wars all over the place?

      What my real question I suppose is that are the only places you’re likely to survive in the next few years  NZ, Australia or Canada or if you still have a little chance in the yet peaceful, scarcily populated, agricultural, Russian neighbouring, eurozone Finland?

      Cheers

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    46. Dario says:

      Comments…..Im just wondering what the affects would be in New Zealand after the events which we have on the way? Would New zealand go under sea level and  fully be covered in water im not to worried about the whole economical side of things at this point.  I just want to know if im safe where i am in my country thank you and please post comments or advice

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    47. Kerrie says:

      Hey Dario, I don’t think there are too many people that still believe the whole climate change islands are going to be covered in sea water theory anymore…it has more holes in it than swiss cheese. They were just trying to steal money from the masses with yet another scare tactic!

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    48. debbie says:

      i live in australia and while we have been told that we are in the best shape of all countries, i dont think this is any longer the case. our government went crazy and spent all our money then got us 40 billion into debt within 12 months. what do you see for our future.

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    49. zukadu says:

      Taxes, Debbie.  Higher taxes that will kill the golden goose. The golden goose being the miners in Western Australia who are generating real wealth, GDP, and jobs. Look for a contraction in the Australian economy by the end of the year 2010. Demand from China may slow as they try to rein in a runaway economy. 

      Changes are coming everywhere and to everyone in every country. As the economy is global in scope, financial problems in one country will affect others. Many think the Euro will fail because of the PIGS. I say, that regardless of how it plays out, the EU will emerge stronger and more cohesive with a stronger more centralized government. That is bible prohecy unfolding before our eyes. It will make for a stronger Euro. The Euro may have reached a low against the dollar. If it hasn’t yet, it will by June.

      Events in America towards the end of May 2010 will have consequences for American financial stability and place constraints on the projection of American power. That creates ramifications for the global community and political instability.

      Nature loves a vaccum.
       

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    50. Dwelluponit says:

      Thing about New Zealand, we produce more food than we can eat, and water to excess. We could export water to Australia.  And we are at the bottom of the world. Lots of coal and gas

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    51. zukadu says:

      “Bottom of the world”? Just remember shit rolls downhill!

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    52. Jonny V says:

      Z!, you have NO IDEA how it warms my heart to see that you’re holding down the villagers while I’m gone :) !

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    53. zukadu says:

      Aw shucks, Jonny V, t’weren’t nothing! You must have been reading those immigration logs again. They will give you high blood pressure for sure! I mean hey! Last year Phoenix St Mary’s Food Bank gave away 1,000,000 (one million) diapers. New American patriots all, I’m sure!

      If you don’t even have to pay for diapers when your kids take a shit, you might as well have all the kids you want. Some idiot will pay for them. But not thiis one!

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    54. Dwelluponit says:

      yes Zukadu, you have fallen into that common northern hemisphere delusion ;-) Gas rises and where is the largest hole in the Ozone layer? So given some twit initially thought north was up, a whole heap of sheep and lemmings followed that opinion. So really, given we are sitting on top of the world, our only real problem up here is all of the hot air coming from the other hemisphere. AND ps…. dont come here to NZ unless you can actually work, if the world economy goes to hell in a hand cart being rich and sitting on your arse will only get you skinny.  

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    55. zukadu says:

      Dwelluponit: Fair enough my down under friend! But I really would like to visit some day! :-)

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    56. s .k.leef says:

      new zealand rocks the answers we are all looking for are in the stars,no im not crazy,we also need to rely on our own skills,learning to grow our own and be sustainable teach our own survil skills,making money will be of no use when the time comes,water and food is what we will need when the time comes not money or worring about taxes.Learn to love one another and be prepered

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    57. mike smith says:

      Hiya,
      I live in New Zealand and heard the diferent rumours of which our country mightn’t with stand such an event of 2012, if thats the case is it possible to have a safe area to be when this change happens?…i live in the central north island of New Zealand.

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    58. Bruce says:

      I’ve been reading various articles on where to go to survive 2012 and everyone seems to think that there is a land mass on Earth somewhere that will be safe. In my opinion, if the poles and the Earth’s crust shift, being on land anywhere, especially subterranian would be the least safe place. I would consider it a waste of time and money to move to another country at this point only to have your property destroyed by whatever forces will take hold of the entire Earth. Think about it. 75% of the Earth’s surface is water. There is no specific point on land or water that you can point to and say ” this is a more dangerous spot than over there”. But, given the physical properties of land versus water, a liquid environment would be much less affected by earthquakes, volcanoes, and an impact from space than would be any place on land. Therefore, having the resources to do so, being near the bottom of the ocean in a submarine would most likely be one of the safest places to be. After the turmoil has ended would be the time to decide where the best place to settle would be, assuming there is a land mass left to settle on. If the disaster is of the proportion predicted, I don’t believe the survivors will be too picky as to who their neighbors are as long as you can contribute to survival.  

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    59. Any websites?

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    60. Freya Cat says:

      Comments…..Greetings from Down Under! Can I suggest a suitable piece of real estate for US citizen looking to bug out? It is called Pine Gap and is located in the middle of Australia.
      Seriously, should we not look at the global picture and the right for all humans to survive rather than just be concerned about saving our own individual sorry arses? Check out sites like http://www.zeitgeistmovement.com and http://www.venusproject.com for alternative approaches to global collapse.  

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    61. Comments…. just read all the comment, just a week ago japan had its disaster. wow shit its real.. must move out of california as soon as possible.

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    62. poopu says:

      yeah 3/11/11. funny, the skull and bones number at yale is 3-2-2.

      bilderberg and their council of seven, like i said above, is more than celente finance – these are depressed humans with a bit too much wealth and a psychopathic plan of a world government and “the great culling” of the “useless eaters.”

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    63. Paula W says:

      Happy New Year everyone…

      We are you all gone?

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    64. Rad says:

      Happy new year

      DONT come to Australia when SFTF we will be under US martial law. Our government has signed agreements with US that allow US military to take over at any tie and run everything. The US this month has been fuming over the NDAA bill being passed – but Aus has had that same law since the Martin Bryant massacre over a decade ago.
      Yo can be locked up and the key thrown away – with no trial no evidence just on “suspicion”.

      And we have FEMA camps here. Google it. The head of Fema came to Australia and whaddya know just motnsh later a camp is setup in Robina QLD. I have been to see the camp and take photos. The guy who uncovered the story and posted evidence on the web dissapeared off the face of the planet. just a few montha ago the government announced a 200 illion dollar emergency FEMA style new train carriages.

      Other reasons not to come to Australia – it is extremely bureaucratic… u cant sneeze unless its documented, you are traced in everythng you do. Vaccinations are mandatory for children… we have very high rates of autism.

      Its the most expensive country on the world to own property… you wont even find a shed in the outback for less than 100K be prepared to pay 200-300K+ for a small 1 bed apartment in any city

      everything is EXPENSIVE here. 4 times more for food than when I lived in USA. A can of soda is $3.50 or $4.00 bottled water is no less that $3.00 for 250ml

      Immigration is very slow process it takes years. Current processing even for a SPOUSE is 18 months then after that you have a 1 year temp followed by 2 years of PR before u can get citizenship. AFTER THAT u have to wait another 2 years to get any government benefits. (so 7 years)

      the ONLY good thing abhout this country is the weather.
      I was born here and I chose to live in Canada/US/South East Asia/India for the past 14 years.

      Im only here because my baby nearly dies and needed medical i couldnt get in US. But after 2 years stuck here, now that she is well I am Leaving asap – probably end of this month.

      honestky, aside from nice weather there are NO good reasons to move here

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