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    When Collapse Happens: “Everyone Took Everything. It Was Like A Storm…”

    Selco
    May 30th, 2013
    SHTF School
    Comments (375)
    Read by 34,181 people

    Editor’s Note: The following article has been generously contributed by Selco. He has experienced the ‘S’ hitting the fan for real, and lived through one year of hell during the Balkan war, where the only concern you had on a daily basis was surviving through to tomorrow. He has documented his experiences at his web site and in must-read articles like A Survival Q & A: Living Through SHTF In the Middle of A War Zone and Advice from a Collapse Survivor

    He currently offers his online course One Year In Hell to subscribers and provides a detailed account of his life in the middle of a war zone, what he did to survive when his city was cut off from the rest of the world by an occupying military force, and what you can do to prepare yourself physically and mentally for similar events should they come to pass. 

    Selco lives in the Balkan region and regularly shares his perspective on preparedness via his blog at SHTF School.


    What Will People Need: Some Thoughts on Preparing for Bartering
    by Selco

    Bartering AmmunitionBuying stuff for your SHTF storage is good of course, and buying it the smart way so you can save some money is always welcome since most of us are not multimillionaires.

    But have you ever thought about buying things for SHTF scenarios in some not so “regular” ways? It will save you money, but maybe even more important is that it will prepare you and show you how finding and buying stuff will probably look when the SHTF for real.

    I am not advising you to do anything that might be against the law, I am simply gonna give you examples how I find some things. It is up to you how you or if you use any of it.

    Have it when you do not need it (have it before you need it)

    One of the most basic rules in preparing and acquiring things for SHTF is that you need to have it before you need it. You may think “oh, but it is so obvious.” Yes and no. Sometimes it is not. When SHTF you may find out that it is very important to have, for example, tetanus shots updated, but then it may be too late. You need to fix that before SHTF.

    Simply, if you are going to look for the tetanus shots when SHTF, the price can be high. In every SHTF scenario anywhere in the world there is gonna be people who are gonna make a fortune and increase power by having the stuff that most of the other folks do not have, because it was not so obvious that it was going to be needed.

    Ways to obtain things

    Things can be bought in many ways. Some of them are illegal so no advice, just examples.

    I buy my fuel from guys who sell it not from the gas station, I buy it always from the same guys so in that way they do not find it useful to cross me with adding strange stuff inside in order to make more money. Repeat customer is good customer.

    Where do they get it? I do not know, and I do not want to know. But some examples would be that they are just dealers for the big guy who wants to “go across” some tax expenses, or they buying it as “agricultural” fuel etc. I do not ask. Is it illegal? Yes. Have I seen and did worse things than that? Yea, sure. Survival.

    Ways to buy things do not necessarily need to be illegal, but it can be just strange and something other than you are used to. In that way you are just preparing yourself for finding things when SHTF.

    It’s like practice for getting things directly from people. Why not start now and tell neighbors what you can get for them cheaply and ask them if they have connection to some stuff too?

    I know people in different areas of life. So I know guys from local politics and guys from local small gangs. I like to keep my ear on ground as part of preparation for coming SHTF. Money is short here and during the [Balkan] war people got used to getting stuff through other people, so the same system still works.

    I also often trade for something when it makes sense. I use my preps and trade two pairs of police boots for new jacket, for example.

    What things do I need?

    Do not think only about “what things do I need?” Feel free to think about “what things do other people need,” because you are going to be trading.

    Look around you and keep in mind when the SHTF, the term “useful thing” takes on a whole new meaning. You’ll see ( I did) that for some people it is a priority to loot malls and take a TV set, stereo or something similar.

    I saw few guys in the first days of chaos rolling 4 new car tires from a looted mall. They were laughing, very happy because they thought they made good “deal” with that. I guess pretty soon they realized that those 4 tires were worth one pocket knife or something similar.

    Smarter folks, or you can say people with “vision,” look for the weapons, food or similar useful stuff.

    The important thing to understand is that everyone took everything. It was like a storm. As time passed by and when everything “more useful” was gone, people took everything else, like pieces of shelves where stuff was kept. People find uses for that too.

    For example, when SHTF I expect people to smash parking machines for the money inside. I am not gonna care for the worthless coins inside, but those machines work thanks to a small solar panels installed on the pole above it. I would go for the panels that most of the folks won’t notice at all.

    Small things were always useful to trade. Also some bigger “invented” things had a good price, like small wood stoves made from cans or pressure cookers. Pretty soon people who were skilled made good trade with handmade portable wood stoves.

    Maybe you can find something to build with empty cans or other waste products?

    People tried to trade everything so you could see some funny stuff too. I wrote in another post about the old FM radio taped to some huge batteries handmade from other sized batteries and taped together. Or homemade teas guaranteed to cure something mixed from different kind of plants.

    Of course scams were everywhere and you needed to be very cautious.

    It was always better to have more small things to trade then bigger bulkier stuff. Easier to carry and easier to sell. Candles, batteries, lighters, canned food, spices, small tools, pocket knives…

    What more you can do today

    Of course preppers look for discounts and wholesale, yard sales and similar chances to save money. But you also need to think about practicing bargaining.

    I am buying lot of things at the local flea market or through people I know. You can find lot of things on flea markets, and if you look hard enough you can find stuff that doesn’t  usually belong there.

    Few rules :

    • Never act like you really need the thing you want to buy (let it be your second choice for example)
    • Split money in more pockets when you bargaining (do not bargain with a hand full of money)
    • Many times seller will set the price based on how he sees you in that moment. So of course do not show off any symbol of wealth.

    Also remember that buying things at the flea market (in your case maybe a yardsale or similar) is very good practice for trade in SHTF conditions simply because the act of negotiating is similar.

    Prices are not fixed (they are more a thing of opportunity and skills). The way you look, act and talk can sometimes be more important than how much money (value) you have in your pocket.

    Remember that when SHTF a lot of things can be valuable; things that you usually would not even notice in normal life.

    For example when SHTF, batteries and candles had big value. The reasons are, of course, because people are still used to commodity of light at night, using it in every room etc.

    But very soon folks realized that candles are something like luxury. So for example, if you wanted to read book you would read it by daylight, or people in the house simply gathered in one room under the light of one candle in order to spare the others.

    So, the value of candles went high in beginning and then went down [as behavior changed].

    So if you planned to make some big success with something for trade it can be said that you need to choose the correct time. Some things have the same high value almost all the time, like coffee or cigarettes.

    Other things gain value over the time, multiple times [their original] value. Stuff like some seeds, plants and knowledge about plants like teas, and herbs for healing etc.

    The point is, if you offered at the beginning stage of SHTF homemade teas as a remedies for something you would not have big success, because people did not believe that SHTF gonna last too long, or in other cases people still had some stash of antibiotics, painkillers etc.

    After a few months passed and people realized the SHTF is gonna last for a longer period, and there were no doctors, no hospitals, and diseases were spreading, then of course those home made remedies suddenly became popular and at the same time much more expensive.

    I have more examples about trading in my survival course.

    So small things that are kinda ridiculously cheap in normal times and normal life become important, which equals expensive.

    One more example would be flints for lighters.

    Things like these are very important if you stash many things in order to do much trading to make life easier when SHTF.

    Point is to carefully observe which things have what kind of value, and more importantly, what things have a chance to multiple their value in a few weeks or months.

    I even knew guy who make small necklaces for luck, you know kinda of small metal on rope and if you carry that all the time you can be sure that bullet gonna miss you. He was something like a monk. He traded that for food and it worked.

    When times are desperate people do and trust in lot of things.

    This article has been made available by Selco of SHTF School

    Check out his One Year In Hell Online Course in which he provides a detailed account of his life in the middle of a war zone, what he did to survive when his city was cut off from the rest of the world by an occupying military force, and what you can do to prepare yourself physically and mentally for similar events should they come to pass. 

    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post
        name:     email:        details

    Author: Selco
    Views: Read by 34,181 people
    Date: May 30th, 2013
    Website: http://shtfschool.com/

    Copyright Information: This content has been contributed to SHTFplan by a third-party or has been republished with permission from the author. Please contact the author directly for republishing information.

     

    375 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. Dick says:

      I just hope we can make it to the point people are willing to barter.

      CATI

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      • John Q. Public says:

        My thanks and my prayers are with you, Selco.

        I pray that you do not have a second trip through hell.

        People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 42 Thumb down 1

        • JustMe says:

          Selco is Awesome.

          His SHTFschool is worth every penny.

          People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 25 Thumb down 4

          • kevin says:

            I do not spend a “penny” on these guys courses(from Erwin Schiff to selco, although I respect them both very (very,very,very,very,very much +20)

            Listen to selco’s words. We are truly blessed to get his thoughts and insight.

            For some reason I think of a navy seal I know (actually he got busted out because he could not contain the strength) you know, not use what he was taught for war against regular people here at home.

            I remember Selco saying that “tuff” guys got shot in the back by regular folk, they did not last long(I am paraphrasing)

            Keep that in mind if you have bought a lot of “tactical gear” to wear during shtf.

            Blend in bitchez!!

            Look like a jerk off!!

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          • Susan says:

            How much is the course? I hate having to give a whack of personal data pre-finding out if I can even afford to look at it!

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

            • Leonard says:

              I paid $29.00 for it, and unlike most “prepper” advice on line, it seems to be the real deal, not somebody’s speculation based on Mad Max movies and a few weeks of camping every year–this guy did live through scary times, and he did it by being the ultimate “gray man”. I’m not sorry for the investment, and I don’t think you will be, either.

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        • Eagle 71 says:

          I’ve been monitoring/contributing to this site for over two years and this is one of the best posts ever listed. Thanks Mac for posting, and thanks to you Selco for some great advice. Only two issues though: reliance on neighbors and lack of info on collecting/storing/purifying water. My neighbors are friendly, but the only neighbor of the bunch I would trust in a post-SHTF scenario was a retired Marine MSgt, who moved to Florida six days ago. Regarding water, Selco, would appreciate your thoughts on how that worked from your end after the stuff hit the fan.

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          • Oathkeeper says:

            Eagle, are you in FL? Considering low sea level, have you thought of getting a well dug? Fix it to a manual pump, or other pump type that can be easily used Shtf, thrn disguise it with some kind of lawn decoration, or have the piping done to route it indoors maybe?

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          • sheptical citizen says:

            Your correct to be leary about trusting your neighbors. Most crime,s are commited by folks who are known to the victim. Its pretty bad now just think how much worse iy will be when SHIF. Remember DTA (Dont Trust Anyone)

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          • Leonard says:

            Eagle, as regards water purification, I just had a BAD experience with people marketing Berkey Water Purification systems. I found a blogsite notifying Berkey users that filters made in 2010 and 2011 had black filters that are faulty, causing those depending upon them to become sick from contaminated water they thought “purified” by the Berkey. A link to the manufacturer’s website had a pdf document showing a diagram of how to determine the date of manufacture of the filters, in case yours was one of the bad ones. Because I bought mine in early 2011 and put it away new for future use, I never usede it so had no problems. After seeing this company’s own internal document, I approached the seller to see about exchanging them (unused, in original wrapper) for others. The seller denied anything was wrong with them, and advised me just to use them. Berkey WILL replace them, though. For $50.00. Buyer Beware…

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

          • Commie hater says:

            Boil it, the rest of that stuff is BS.

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

          • Eagle 71 says:

            Thanks to all that replied regarding the water issue. I live in the Midwest, with a good creek about a quarter mile from my house. I have ways of storing/purifying the water I get, so good there too. Don’t forget rainwater, and a way to collect it. DK posted below to fill the tub(s), great advice. I got two “Water Bob” bladders set to fill up in the tubs. Was curious what Selco did in his location though, I’ll check his blog to see what he did after TSHTF in the Balkans.

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

      • DRD5508 says:

        Dick, on a side to that thought; I hope people will be honest. I have observed garage sales where a hand full of people get out of a vehicle and go to different parts of the items presented. Some will distract the seller while others take items to the vehicle without paying for them. Advice is to have help when selling or bartering because at times you’ll be out numbered.
        Selco is right about keeping money in different pockets, it has worked for me, I’ll wear a vest with multi pockets.

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        • lower40 says:

          another good move is to give money to a friend ,or in my case my son ,and then you can turn to them and say how much do you got with you ,ive used alot buying cars to speculate with

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        • T.R. says:

          In the southwest , this is a common tactic mexican families use when in a store , all the kids are noisy , and bouncing all over the place , too much for one person to keep track of , so something usually gets lifted .

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

      • OutWest says:

        Mac

        I like reading Selco very much–But…..

        What is with the caveats that Selco and
        other writers use saying “this might be
        Illegal, so we’re not going to cover that
        aspect here.” What!!

        Do we now have degrees of SHTF?
        I assumed SHTF was absolute, a total and
        complete breakdown of the rule of law,
        no legal or illegal about it, It’s gone!

        This is rather baffling also because he
        (they) are only relating what they did
        and how they did it in a foreign country.

        I would say that’s more descriptive than
        instructional What gives?

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 16

        • OutWest says:

          UHhh….Never mind Mac, I see it all now.
          My mind just derailed there for a bit.

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        • archer says:

          as for no rule for law , I disagree with your implication of that, you always have the absolute law that God has given such as, thou shall not steal , I am not planning on being the bad guy, and why we need to prepare. the bad guys are why I have stocked up other thing to try to keep what I have stocked .

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        • Jack says:

          Hidden due to low comment rating. Click to read it.

          Poorly-rated. What do You Think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 30

          • jerrytbg says:

            True, it’s a leap of faith…
            but if he did experience this wouldn’t you want to know how he did it?

            this is one of those times I’ll take someone at face value. and besides, it all makes sense.

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            • T.R. says:

              I knew a guy that was a Peacekeeper there , a lot of things he told me about what they saw , confirms a lot of what Selco was saying . If he is a liar , he did his research well , but like mentioned above , it makes just too much sense . A lot better advice that 80% of the guys out there are saying . He at least seems to understand human nature well ……….again , unlike most of what I read from ” preppers ” . Just sayin .

              Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

      • Paranoid says:

        Not to argue but why not just stock up on the stuff you use? Yes, I have some things I got cheap that are small and useful and a few places I have more of something than I’m likely to use in 20 years. And yes, I have some PM’s to buy stuff I forgot to get. But over all why get things to barter with (Unless you have some unusual supply) Get all the items you are going to need, then get barter stuff. (Because there aren’t many of us that have all we know we need)

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        • Paranoid says:

          What you have to get is a skill, and the stuff it requires, or a still, or something, raise squash, fix shoes, sew, whatever. Stuff runs out, skills don’t.

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          • Bill Gates love child. says:

            If a power outage lasts more than 24 hours, the tower could be emptying. Clean the tub or use a heavy plastic bag for a liner. Right on, DK

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

        • Leonard says:

          A great source of future barter goods is Dollar Tree. Soaps, shampoos, deodorants, headache and allergy meds, antibiotic salves, bandaids, toothbrushes, toothpaste, radioactive milk in boxes, hand lotion, feminine hygeine stuff–there’ll still be women out there, whose men will be willing to get “special” things for them…

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      • Bill Gates love child. says:

        Lots of highway signals, cameras, what have you are solar powered.

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      • AnonLegion says:

        a great update, would recommend at least signing up for his sight and email updates. This was sent via email a few days back to those who did subscribe already, as well as other updates and very informative items. Well worth the stop by and as someone said below I would recommend his course. He is the kind of man I would want on my fire team.

        Keep rocking Selco

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    2. durango kidd says:

      The first thing to do when SHTF is fill the tub with water.

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      • Anonymous says:

        the first thing i am gonna do is move my cattle to the woods and chickens into freezer.
        then wait for the big city “bugout” people to show up down on the state land . lol

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        • Kulafarmer says:

          Im going to wait for the people bugging out…
          To fill my freezer!

          Just kidding,

          Thats my biggest worry, the people who didnt prepare!
          On an island the food will run out quick for those who didnt heed the warnings,
          Then when they start coming out into our rural comunities what then? They think we have an obligation to feed them just because we are living a subsistence lifestyle and grow our own food?
          Its going to get interesting, see lots of demanding people who im quite sure have not a can of food stashed.
          Where do we draw the line?

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          • Anonymous says:

            Kula, when then city boys bug out to the country and try to steal from us humble backwoods type, your ammo will come in handy. For every meal they take that one less for me and mine.

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          • anonymous6.8 says:

            kula,

            you draw the line at your family survives. If the unprepareds have no supplies, and won’t do useful work, give them what charity you can spare and have them hit the road. If they get combative it’s time for rule 308. First rule is your family survives. If the sheep have been warned several times, or made no effort to connect the dots themselves, and that “can’t happen event” does happen … they made their beds. Respect their free choice and let them sleep in them.

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            • Them Guys says:

              I got the tv on in background(its nice to hear a human voice when living alone) and an ad just aired for a new movie comming out June 7th. Movie name is “The Purge”!

              The minit long ad shows Fed Govnt types, maybe the Prez, announce on tv etc that “its time for the Next Purge! For the Next 12 hrs ALL Crime is Leagle!”…Then it cuts to street scenes with alot of folks mingled all over in the open on streets etc. Looks like they are getting ready to rumble.

              Then cuts Back to some fed govnt man saying as if to a reporter as an answer, “It works out good for people to be able to get rid of pent up steam/anger etc!

              Man I swear everything now being touted from sit coms to new release movies like the purge, all to me sound like Pure govnt-kommie propaganda. Almost as if they are telegraphing to us what they are truly planning for a soon new future america. Unbelievable.

              They show it on Tv and in Movies, then cause it to occure and folks on avg will think it is a Normal thing after seeing so many times that crap.

              Picture a Real Life govnt announcment that the next 12 hrs ALL crimes are Ok-leagle. Once it began theyd never halt it in large city areas! In the first Hour it would be total chaos.

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              • Bill says:

                Kill the TV and put on some good music.

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              • OutWest says:

                Them Guys

                To see that scenario for real, check out some
                old footage during the fall of Baghdad when our
                soldiers stood down and gave looting free will.

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                • Them Guys says:

                  OutWest, RT tv news’ newest hour long documentary is about some indep. reporter guy who went to Iraq recently, he found a Iraq Taxi driver and contracted the taxi for a 22-day long drive across the entire nations core areas.

                  Man, it is truly sad to see and hear live real time comments from so many innocent folks in iraq who answer the reporters questions on what daily life is now After the US army pulled out etc.

                  The entire iraq nation is a shambles. It looks Worse than Detroit in many areas. And those folks interviewed say every day now is sniper klls, bombings and overall it is Way Worse they say than under Sadam rule was.

                  This is Very bad for our fed govnt to do such terrible wars to wreck nations that nener harmed us nor could even if they wanted to. Then after its fucked beyond fixing, up and exit so our troops can regroup and head to Another nation to destroy. This is NOT war. It Is War Crimes to the Inth degree. I sure hope more americans wake up as many already have to how after 9/11 we were Lied into iraq war.

                  Ron Paul is on to something when he talks of “Blow Back” on the USA for whats being done in Our names.

                  I do not care what any persons thinks or believes about Islamic Muslims. I agree that religion is not desireable at all. But all the folks shown in RT doc video are simple folk who desire a life free of such conflict the exact Same as we here in the usa does. NOBODY deserves what that nation is like Today.

                  And I got news for any folks who do harbor hatered for muslims based on a decade of non stop MSM promoted One sided reports. If they think Koran inspired Jihad is bad or evil?…They really Need to compare it to that “Other” religious groups beliefs that the usa is supposed to be doing all this Wars for(israel/judaisim/talmudisim).

                  I have not read nor studied very much of what appears as an near endless volume’s of “holy” books contained in that talmud religion. But, from the little I have seen or read of, so far IMHO that religion america so supports with deadly destructive wars for, is 50-times worse than that Koran as far as what Both teach, about us gentiles or Goyims or Infidels.

                  I really do fear america will see ron pauls blow back occure if its not halted soon. And if it does most of the worlds people Won’t blame whoever does it!

                  Check that RT documentary I think all their videos and doc’s are avail Online for Free to view. After seeing that newset iraq video, I more understand why so many military folks commit suicide once returned home to america. No offence to soldiers who mean well and were of a belief they were truly protecting usa freedoms etc. I hope more investigate first Before signing up for any more such. I hate to say or admit it but there is simply zero excuse to fuck up a nation who hasn’t attacked america like we did to iraq. Those folks Know it will never again be as before. When you hear normal folks say “Yes Sadam Was a dictator. BUT we sure had it way better under him as compared to Now” It makes you think different. One woman said a Recently ate steak was the FIRST time she ate Meat since Bush #1 1991 invasion of iraq! 20+ yrs it took her to be able to eat well.

                  They got hardly any stores left there. Biggest cash buisness today is Selling Gas genarators due to totalled elec grids. Our usa leadership is Pure EVILNESS.

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            • Commie hater says:

              Rule 308, I like that. Rule 3006 is mine. Breaker used Rule 303, but he let the red coat firing squad limys shoot him. 30 caliber, that’s the rule.

              Stay away from the military, commies everywhere.

              Semper Fi

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              • sonuvagun says:

                mine is Rule 762x54R….’cause I’m poor Comrade. Better then a rule 22lr though!

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                • T.R. says:

                  Then you must have a Mosin – Nagant , its ok comrade , I have one also , I have other things as well but dont worry , a 7.62×54 will put the hurt on somebody real good ! just at a low rate of fire . But never fear comrade , keep your eyes open and I’m sure there will be plenty of ARs and AKs laying next to their former owners to pick up when things go down .

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                • Orwellian States says:

                  I have an SVT 40 which is a WW II 7.62×54 Russian SEMI AUTO. 10 round mag…… sweet.

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          • winston_smith says:

            Feed a man a sandwich… he’ll be back.
            Feed a man a bullet… you won’t hear from him again.

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            • king krazy says:

              My thoughts exactly. :)

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            • Leonard says:

              Now, I’ve heard another version of this: Teach a man to build a fire, you’ve kept him warm for a night. Set a man on fire, and you’ve kept him warm for the rest of his life…

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              • sixpack says:

                Teaching hate and murder over self-sufficiency—nice. (sarcasm off)

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                • Canadian Vet says:

                  Except the types being described here aren’t I the rested in self-sufficiency. They want to be provided for. And I agree that assisting these people is a sure-fire way to put my family in danger. So the mooches show up, I have nothing to give them. They insist, I make it clear they have just one more chance to leave.

                  They stick around, their lives are forfeit. I will not allow the parasites to threaten my family in any way.

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            • T.R. says:

              and pimp his wife out for things you need

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          • Daddy K says:

            Kula,

            I live in Hawaii, too, in a rural area. What’s interesting to me is I have some neighbors that seem to have a clue although we never discuss SHTF scenarios. I can just tell by what they’re up to that they are prepping. Then I have neighbors that aren’t prepared at all. We had a community discussion about preparing for the case of our road getting cut off by landslide as has happened in the past with about a week of isolation. One of our neighbors said that she could trade her lovely gardenias for food or let people take rest on her spacious and breezy lanai in case we are isolated. She has a patch of strawberries planted in a wooden wheelbarrow to look all old-timey. That and the gardenias is what she has to offer. We bought one can of Alpo for these neighbors in case they show up at our door. Not funny, I know, but it seemed funny after she offered gardenias for food.

            Another neighbor is a widow, probably too old to be doing anything now to prep aside from purchasing long term storage food. I like her and I know she will be asking for food.

            What will be hard is to turn away people that are neighbors that we have some kind of friendship with. But there is no choice really. The only way they could survive is if we actually gave them our entire set-up, as we have only enough resources for our own survival (if we’re lucky). And if we gave them our place, they could live for a couple weeks while they neglected everything out of laziness or learned helplessness.

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            • Kulafarmer says:

              @Daddy K
              Sounds like my neighborhood,, same kind of things,, same sorts of people, I think here in the islands we have a lot of the it cant happen here crowd, the old school local families have a pretty good idea about hard times, but the recent transplants not so much,
              Anyways,, yes that will be real hard to turn folks away, and again, where to draw the line???

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            • Leonard says:

              The truth is, it’s possible however prepared we are, we may have a jam of some sort. I’ve stocked up on lots of rice and dry beans–a handful of either makes a full belly once cooked. These provisions are cheap and affordable today. I plan to help others–at my age, I’m likely to need help at some point or another, and would rather have people owing me favors, than hating me for my lack of concern for them or their kids.

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          • Dishesdealer says:

            What makes you think the city folk are going to make it to the country? I was on some chatboard and a bunch of people from up north in one of the two big big cities said they would just go out in to the country, maybe even way south where I am.

            I said, what makes you think those people who live in the country are going to let you do that? Roadblocks, some bridges & overpasses could no longer exist. The fittest best prepared might be able to make the 180 miles on foot with no easy highway to follow, but most can’t. The country locals aren’t going to let refugees in.

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            • lastmanstanding says:

              dishes…absolutely correct. Most people won’t be able to walk 10 blocks, let alone know what direction is north or south.

              Most won’t be able to count to 10…let along know what a “block” is.

              No stranger will be walking into the area where we live.

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            • If you happen to be one of the locals and are away on a trip when the SHTF, you had best have some identification , mail in your purse with your current address on it, to prove that you should be allowed to get through the blockade because you do live where you are saying you do.

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              • Anonymous says:

                U Guys are a bunch of idiots living in a dream world. not going to let people in or past your blockade thats stupit. not haveing electricity will throw everyong back to the darkages, but watch out for the rambo types that want to call themself king and fantisize about killing inocent people for the fun just becouse they might walk/drive past their home. To fix civilization u have to let people in to batter. or are u just going to close of from the world and inbread your kidds with each other

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          • ScoutMotto says:

            “I don’t have to prepare, I’ll just come over to your house.”

            Tell them “Don’t come over without an invitation, and you don’t have one.”

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            • anonymous6.8 says:

              ScoutMotto,

              I like the way you think. Rephrasing a bit one gets, “Have you seen what a 12-gauge slug does to a human being? Do drop by about mid-afternoon. We can use the practice.”

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          • B. Dover says:

            Buried food stashes in multiple locations with a bare minimum left in the house. They come to steal but won’t wipe me out.

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      • Walt Kowalski says:

        I also save empty bottled water bottles. Got a couple of large cardboard boxes full of them. When SHTF….they get filled up.

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      • BigB says:

        10-4 that DK. 2nd thing is get all your cash together and buy any tangible assets available. Like Selco has said many times over BIC lighters and alchohol are worth there wieght in gold.

        BigB

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        • sixpack says:

          I just got a 55 count case of bic minis. The best thing is, even after they run out of butane, you can use the striker to start fires with for a while. One little lighter will be worth plenty to someone who can’t figure out how to use a magnesium fire starter.

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      • When I lived in Alaska, we had a very large earthquake in our area. That was exactly what the doctor in our town did. He said they filled their tub. We had many, many aftershocks…most everyone had their own well and we shortly began to notice a nasty discoloration to the water. It was very rusty looking. Almost blood like. Freaky when you wanted to shower. Many in the state were encouraged to buy a water testing kit and check for contamination.

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        • 4 year prepper says:

          Being in a hurricane area, I fill my bathtub up also after scrubbing it good. I also run my washing machine thru a full cycle with some clorox added and then refill it. Just as the agitation starts, I turn it off. It can be used for bathing, any dishwashing. I have a gas range so I can heat water easily.

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          • BigB says:

            Another water source is your house. You can drain the how water heater and it is good for most people for 10 to 40 gallons of water. Another 5 gallons or so can be gotten by opening the lowest level spigot in the yard and have some one with containers to catch the water in your pibes as you go around and open all the inside fawcets.

            BigB

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            • BigB says:

              BTW, if you have a gas hot water heater make sure and turn off the gas or you sill burn the house down.

              BigB

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            • Bill Gates love child. says:

              You won’t get much from the WH if you let sediment build up and clog the drain faucet. Keep a clean hose and short pan handy. Drain it at least yearly. Shut it off first. If it’s gas, you can burn down your house. If it’s electric, without being full of water the elements have a life span measured in seconds.

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            • Anonymous says:

              Well a water heater sure rules me out. Mine is a tankless water heater hanging on the side of the house by my LP gas heat pack. I do have approx 35 gallons of water stored, plus those small bottles. I also refill some of them as empty them

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      • incognito says:

        And what take a bath? Suppose when SHTF smelling nice is a priority?

        Get a couple of 325 gallon IBC Totes off of craigslist and a Big Berkey. You won’t think about water again. Here in the Desert Southwest so….

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        • JayJay says:

          I have a feeling if you wait till the SHTF to fill a tub of water, and that is all you have??
          You ain’t been paying attention, folks!

          Lexington Containers in Ky.
          (10) 30 gallon drums for $100 and I went twice to get 20 drums, @ 175 miles round trip.
          Now, that we have a little bigger truck again, I will be making another trip.
          The second vehicle can sit in the drive; my water will be in the garage with the other 20 drums.

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          • Mark says:

            I have bought blue water drums from Lexington Container too, JayJay. And they also have real military Jerry Cans. Not those twisted EPA red ones that spill shit all over the place.

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            • Bill Gates love child. says:

              CARB compliant gas cans suck, but don’t get vent caps from E Bay to modify them, it’s illegal. Always listen to your overlords.

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          • durango kidd says:

            I have two blue plastic water drums and two 1,000 gallon tanks. They are hard to move when they are filled with water. The blue ones, I mean.

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            • Bill Gates love child. says:

              If you don’t have a drum dolly, they can be moved by tilting them and “rolling” them along on a hard surface, but be careful not to tilt it too far.

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        • secret squirrel says:

          Lol, no not a bath, or for drinking….a tub or two of
          water will fulsh your toilet
          for a cpl days.

          secret squirrel

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          • sixpack says:

            you can flush your toilet easily with a 5 gallon bucket full or less. For those who can’t figure out how to make it swirl in the bowl, just fill the tank and push the lever down. When our well pump petered on us, we had to do that for several months until we could find somewhere to get an affordable pump.

            Ours could not be pulled out, so we had to put another down there with the old disabled one. We did what we had to do.

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      • Anonymous says:

        @ dk -

        Check out the “Water Bob” for around $19.95 + s&h. It’s a bladder in a box that fits any standard size tub. Comes with a siphon pump and will hold 100 gallons. I would give the tub a quick clean, arrange and fill the bladder and move on to something else that needed doing. Give it a look see.

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        • Bill Gates love child. says:

          Cover the drain and overflow with folded towels to keep from poking holes in the bag.

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        • sixpack says:

          you can cut a piece of scrap plywood a couple of feet high across the front of your shower (for those who only have a shower stall and no tub). The plywood will make a forth wall for your liner, so you can fill your shower just like a tub.

          Of course, it is up to you to cut the proper size of scrap wood, wide enough so it won’t fit between the sides of the shower. It needs to be held in place until the water lever rises and holds it in place with the weight.

          Figure out how to work with what you have.

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      • Castor says:

        @DK,
        You might be right if the event is VERY sudden such as an EMP or solar flare. However, as many people on this site have commented we are already be in a SHTF scenario that is moving downhill slowly, but gaining momentum. It is naive to think it will be sudden to the point of thinking, “OK, time to fill the tub with water.”

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        • Bill Gates love child. says:

          If power goes out, the tower may get drained. Every little bit helps. I hear they do this a lot in hurricane country.

          If you don’t have a backflow preventer, get a plumber’s inflatable test plug to keep the drain from backing up.

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      • Anonymous says:

        Thats what I told my wife. lol, if im at work and the
        power goes out, fill the tub and sinks and call
        me if the phones are working still, chances
        are im already headed home.

        secret squirrel

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      • kevin says:

        @DK. Whats up bro. hope all is well with you and yours!! I may be coming to your neck of the woods soon, just remember, if you are in the middle of the desert and you look at someone and you say to yourself- ‘who is that crazy son of a bitch”….. that would be me!! :)

        Hey, you bad mouthed Erwin Schiff the other day on a post. (I have just recently started coming back to shtfplan)

        No response to my post-

        kevin says:
        Comment ID: 1731727

        May 28, 2013 at 8:16 am

        @DK- Hey bro, I had personal interactions with Erwin many times. (back in the day) I was working in FL, my $10 phone card drained talking to him, he called me back on his dime and we talked another hour and a half, then I met him in person a few times when I got home. (no, I never bought ANY of his products, and I borrowed one of his books from him)

        Our discussions changed my outlook on this country and the constitution.(if 50 million of you would have “woken up” back then also, we would not be going through this bull$hit right now)(added that for todays post) @Erwin- Thank you!

        He is in JAIL for his beliefs (and many truths).

        As many of us will probably be one day.

        Mrs. Jackson
        Mr. Bannister
        Mr. Schiff

        Old hero’s (to me) and in the anti-tax movement. These are people who took the battle to the enemy, without fully understanding their foe, and have paid the price.

        Remember who owns the courts. (same people who count the votes)

        Remember who brings up charges.(the same people with the blind eyes)

        The blind fold of justice has been used as an a$$ rag for decades now.

        On the frn deal, remember who emits the bills of credit (the same people who collect the illegal income taxes).

        Go easy on Erwin, he is sleeping with bubba for his believes/truths.

        Me and you?

        We are sleeping with our ladies!!

        We are “free”.

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        • durango kidd says:

          I wasn’t dissing Erwin Schiff. Don’t know who he is. I was dissing Peter Schiff, the gold bug at Euro Pacific Capital who is the guy crying the blues about the dollar to push interest in gold and sustain his basis.

          I profit more from a higher gold price too, but I don’t need to spread fear to make a buck. Anyone with half a brain can figure out what the GB’s are doing, plan accordingly, and profit from it.

          Speaking of “half a brain” if you are coming down to the desert soon, you need a IQ test. When temperatures hit 100 degrees for the first time this year, I grabbed my BOB and made a hasty retreat. :-)

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          • kevin says:

            @DK, my apologies, I will go back re-read your post.

            A little git of info on Erwin for ya-

            Peter Schiffs dad is a anti-tax guy who is locked up in jail.

            When he had his trial down in vegas, he had something like 41 people to testify on his behalf (scholars, accountants, constitutional experts, tax lawyers, ex-irs agents, and others)

            The feds had ZERO!!!

            The judge famously said- “I will not allow the law in my courtroom” (or something very simular)

            P.S.

            Yep, I do need an IQ test (it is getting f-ing hot down there). A drug test and a daily session with a shrink probably would do me some good also! :)

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      • Paranoid says:

        While the tub is running, fill your guns with ammo, make ice, start the grill, do a load of underwear, look at the TV Guide. Nothings gong to happen until Dancing with the Stars is over. When the power goes out, the steaks in you frig are going to rot. might as well eat them, and you need something to cool your Scotch. And if it gets bad you are going to need clean underwear.

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      • Sigi says:

        Before you do that, make sure you have some good additional containers for water that you can fill and set aside for flushing, drinking, washing, etc. Stock up on those now. Also wash, bleach and sterilze glass juice jars with lids that can seal and “can” tap water for drinking. Set up a rain barrel in your yard this summer to supplement what you already have to pay for.

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      • howdy-doody says:

        Talking about water storage. I just bought a kiddie pool for the gran kids, that holds close to 500 gallons. it was only $14.99 at a K-Mart. How cheap can you get for water storage? It would at least make good water to wash off with, or flush a toilet. With a little filtering, I would easily drink it. I already keep it chlorinated. The solid plastic pools are just as cheap, and could be put inside a house if need be.

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      • Barterman says:

        Dont forget the hot water heater too!

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      • DrOil says:

        Nah, Durango, you should fill your tub with oil since we are “awash in oil”. What a maroon.

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      • RickE. says:

        Not for me! I live off of the grid with solar and my own source of water. THIS is a good place to be if the SHTF!

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    3. Anonymous says:

      Ammo,lighters,candles,batteries,tobacco,beer,wine,hard liquor,tp soap,socks,shoes…everything!

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      • Canadian Vet says:

        Ammunition and alcohol are very bad things to trade. The ammo can readily be used against you and if you have booze to trade, you will attract alcoholics looking for their drink and those who think its time to party on and will violently try to get your stash.

        Only trade in stuff that can’t bite you in the ass later.

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        • BigB says:

          @Canadian Vet,

          Who says the booze was for trade? :)

          BigB

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          • Canadian Vet says:

            BigB, the part where you mention their weight in gold led me to believe that. And honestly, SHTF, drinking would be the least of my priorities.

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        • Mark says:

          Canadian Vet,
          Everclear is cheap (compared to real booze, like whisky), and it is the best disinfectant from among the commonly used alcohols methanol, ethanol, and iso-propanol. It can also be used in alcohol lamps and stoves. In a pinch, you can even drink the nasty shit.

          As far as the scenario of having stinking rip-roaring drunks who are pissing their pants and stumbling over their own feet pitted against sober survivalists with range time and krav maga training, I’ll bet on the latter. Disabling the people with incapacitants like alcohol and pot has worked well for the American government for decades. Have you ever spent the evening in a bar, stone-cold sober, and watched the fools losing their senses and their capacity for speech? Most of them are easier to take down than those who have their wits about them.

          In addition, alcoholics who are suddenly deprived of drink are in pain, they are disoriented, they are depressed, they can’t sleep, and they can hardly think. I agree that it’s a bad idea to trade with them, generally, but I would not be advertising booze at a kool-aid stand for all comers. I’d hope that bartering with booze and bullets would be limited to business partners that I could appraise as being regular guys.

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        • AnonLegion says:

          Canadian vet you NEVER EVER EVER did I say EVER yet? EVER trade or barter from where your AO is EVER. let me say it once more EVER. You do it far away or as far as you can safely go. Why the hell would anyone say HEY MY SHIT IS HERE !!! by bartering out of their AO unless you got one hell of a compound, armed guards and you control the area 100%. EVEN THEN NO BAD BAD BAD NO!!!

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      • ItIsWellWithMySoul says:

        Learn to make your own lye soap out of ashes and animal fat like deer. I started making soap with red devil lye and lard and I’m hooked because its way better than the soap at the store. When and if times get bad I at least know how to make it out of ashes and fat. It’s a easy skill and it may pay off one day.

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      • It's getting very weird says:

        Don’t forget solar light landscape lights. Recharge everyday. Last average of 3yrs and no fire to worry about with kids like candles.

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      • 4 year prepper says:

        I am guessing we need to purchase insect spray, for flies, mosquitos, wasps, something with deet in it. That spray that shoots about 20-30 feet is better sometimes than pepper spray (don’t have to be nearly as close), fly swatters. I have been purchasing so of those things. There will not be any trash pick-ups and the refuge will attrack all kinds of stuff. I have mouse traps but no rat traps.
        I guess I have to get me a cat.

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        • You can also use hairspray and a lighter to give the people bothering you a flaming hairdo.

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        • slingshot says:

          4 Year Prepper.

          Good point. I live in Florida and you will not believe how many bugs are here that bite. Then itch and burn. The Tiger mosquitoes are very aggressive and a new and even bigger one has invaded lower Florida. Also we have the Brown Recluse spider and there is now another in the recluse family that has a more painful and a more serious bite, according to the those who track invasive species. I have experience the “Flying Teeth” or “Me Me’s” of Puerto Rico. Terrible! Another friend of mine is the Yellow Flies. There bites itch and produce swelling of the bite site. Fire and Carpenter Ants are nothing to laugh at too. Black and Brown Widow spiders along with scorpions. Chiggers in the tall grass along with ticks. Also can spread disease. Bees and wasps are plentiful when the flowers bloom. Yellow Jackets nest in the ground and stepping on a nest is awful. Red Wasps are painful stings and Hornets, you better leave the nest alone. Both are highly aggressive. One you do not see much but is very painful is the Saddleback Caterpillar.
          Very bright green with a little brown saddle on back and looks hairy. They do vary somewhat. They have stinging hairs. Never pick one up! Very pretty and children may be drawn to them. To add, know how to identify your snakes.
          Besides killing these nasty buggers you must also treat the bite. Anti itch and pain soothing products. Beware of allergic reactions. Please beware of DEET on small children and sensitive skin as products vary in the DEET composition and it burns. Not to mention you can poison or blind yourself.
          READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!
          Even the plants like Poison Oak, Ivy and Sumac. Have three leaves, let it be.

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        • Leonard says:

          Rat traps can be used to catch dove-sized birds and even squirrels. I’ve used pancake syrup as a glue to stick cracked corn on the bait pedals of rat traps when I was a kid so I could feed my boa constrictor. Just set them out (with a wire tied to a weight that can’t dragged or flown away with)sprinkle a little cracked corn around them to give visibility from the air, and check frequently in morning and late afternoon…

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        • sixpack says:

          Flies and spiders hate citrus. Take about a half cup of lemon or lime juice and mix it with a little water and spray it around your doors and windows outside and in. We have flies here that SWARM in the summer, and when they hit you, it feels like hail being flung at you. That’s how I control them, but the stupid neighbor doesn’t and regrets it every year.

          Works in the garden too.

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      • Barterman says:

        And the list goes on. I’ve been a prepper since hurricane Hugo… still dont have everything!

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    4. michelle says:

      you can get fifty disposable lighters on Amazon for twelve bucks and free shipping if you spend 25

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      • Anonymous says:

        I purchased seven(7) adjustable flame cigarette lighters at Wal Mart this morning for $1.97. We don’t smoke but they are small for pockets,etc. We are in the country and are allowed to burn trash and all our yard debris.

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    5. Canadian Vet says:

      One thing for sure I will never trade anything that can be used against me. So weapons, ammo, bows, arrows, tools that have a use as weapons, not trading.

      Nor would I be trading habit-forming substances. Last thing I want is anyone looking for a drink, a smoke or a fix coming at my family or me in desperation. Desperate people are dangerous enough as it is; desperate addicts are in a whole new league.

      However, forming a partnership with someone who could use my skillets in exchange for what they produce, that’s another story.

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      • Jack says:

        Canadian Vet- I know huh? These guys are nuts I am thinking. Barter a guy a pint of vodka and a box of 45 shells, so he can swill about half pint of vodka, then blow your head off.

        Hey guys… I have an idea. Store CRACK and trade that too. Alcoholics, smokers and the like will have ALL kinds of things to trade you..

        SO yeah, store some crack too for those that are detoxing. Be sure and give me a 45 and box of shells too if they want to buy that too.

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    6. Great advice, my 20 tubes of toothpaste will last a long time or be something I can trade.

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      • Eeder says:

        I would do the same thing with those tubes of toothpaste as I do with the deodorant sticks I have gotten for Christmas every year that I can remember. Save them for barter, but for the love of god(not to mention your body) do not use them! Toothpaste, deodorant and the water most people use to apply these things and even worse drink, are 3 of the most harmful things out there. Use at your own risk! But barter them to those too stupid to know better when it gets to that point.

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        • Mark says:

          Yeah, I would never use those anti-perspirants with aluminum salts that constrict your pores (and perhaps contribute to plaques in the brain), but the alcohol-containing deodorants have little in them that could cause harm.

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      • ItIsWellWithMySoul says:

        I brush my teeth with pure baking soda and it is very economical, whitens teeth, good to clean with, wash your hair with, and can be used to cook with as well.. Toothpaste is good for barter but in the old days they used baking soda and probably during a collapse will resort to doing the same.l

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        • Nehweh Gahnin says:

          Try mixing some salt with the baking soda, and a few drops of tea tree oil. A few drops of peppermint oil freshens it up and adds flavor. :)

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          • yental says:

            An entire article could be written on the MANY practical uses of baking soda. (medical uses as well) If some are not already stocking it while it is still very cheap, start. Generic plain white vinegar is another item to “explore” and stock as well. No refrigeration required, and a decent meat tenderizer/surface sanitizer. A little acid content goes a long way in MANY potential uses.

            Seems like an “organic prepper” could run with and further elaborate on this info.

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            • james says:

              along w/ the baking soda & vinegar, diatomaceous earth, borax, hydrogen peroxide, lye, salt & essential oils (oregano, tea tree, neem, lavendar, lemon, mint etc) are great multi-use, non-perishable, organic items to stock up on.

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        • yental says:

          ItIsWellWithMySoul, my teeth brushing regimen as well. And notice I said “teeth” and not “tooth”. ;)!

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        • and no floride

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      • Laurie says:

        I have used coupons for the last two years to build up a supply of barter items. Most of the stuff i have I got for free or close to it. Coupons are great and I highly recommend them

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    7. Walt Kowalski says:

      Can’t happen here.

      (need a sarcasm emoticon)

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      • durango kidd says:

        Try this: :-(

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      • Kulafarmer says:

        Yea, whats scarry is people actually think that!
        Sheesh, talk about naieve
        Im sure the folks in the big cities of Europe said the same thing before WW1 and WW2
        Thats the thing that will be the shocker, when NYC or the other big cities get bombed out,
        Look at Syria, those cities were all pretty much like almost any of the older cities and towns anywhere across the USA, those folks are getting screwed! Its sad that humans are such a violent destructive lot, you grow up being taught one thing then get bitch slapped with an entirely different reality, i didnt turn skeptical or cynical or a violent payback kinda guy till after i was 20, reality bites sometimes.

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    8. Slick says:

      I can’t imagine the number of poor souls that will be taken advantage of
      durring a SHTF event.
      I know a lot of people here get worn down by the empending financial crises,
      and some say just bring it on and get it over with.
      There is nothing romantic or desirable about a collapse when you put it in perspective.
      Many good people will suffer and many bad people will thrive in that climate.
      I like to think I am pretty well prepared, but I’m reminded differently all the time
      when I need something that is readily available right now.
      No, I don’t relish the thought of a collapse at all.
      Damn,
      I need more vodka and coffee.

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      • Archivist says:

        Dried, chopped, roasted, and ground up dandelion roots are a good coffee substitute. Yaupon is the only plant native to North America which contains caffeine. Having both growing wild in your yard is a very good thing.

        That reminds me. I need to transplant some of my yaupon to local woods along the road. It looks so much like privet hedge, that most people won’t notice it.

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        • Paranoid says:

          Yech, somehow I just don’t think that’s going to be my imported favorite roast, coffee is cheap. Just buy a 5-10 year supply, no way am I going to grub for roots; To get my morning coffee. Work a week part time at McD’s and buy it, collect Al cans for deposit, beg for coffee money, whatever. Have better things to do than dig roots, sorry.

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          • Mark says:

            Heh heh… Come on, Paranoid! Get with the programme! You can get a grocery sack of Chanterelles where I live, make the afore-mentioned Yaupon tea, eat wild violets, wild roses, and lots of prickly pear cactus (Opuntia spp.) leaves and fruit here. The Mexican people call them “nopales” and “tunas”, respectively. They even sell the tunas in grocery stores.

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            • Kulafarmer says:

              The wild edibles could save your life at the most, and at the least are a good suplement to your supplies, ive got nasturshums and daikon and a whole host of other oddball edibles naturalized in my borders, my mom was grumbling about all the weeds im letting grow then i started telling her what some of the stuff is and thet its edible and that sort of changed her tune, add to that the fact that since my borders are so diverse and bushy my pest problems are minimal, snails are hard to get rid of but they are the snails that are used for escargot, my girlfriend winced when i told her we could eat them, but if SHTF those snails boxed in some of our home grown corn meal, then sauteed up with the wild garlic we have growing around here or deep fried with a spicy corn meal batter may be better than starving!

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            • Paranoid says:

              The Hudson’s Bay Company; perhaps the biggest collection of tough guys in the last 300 years said.: “There is no point in being tough, just for the sake of being tough.” If I have to, I’ll eat rats and cockroaches: But I’m sure as hell not going to do it if a Black Angus is standing around watching me do it. Go eat all the cactus you want. I’ll go and buy another can of dry bacon and eggs. And for the people who say they don’t have the money: Sell your computer and cut you Internet bill and buy some. Stuff roots and berries.

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              • Bill says:

                Sell your iPhone, your big flat TV, your fancy car and all the other crap that you “just gotta have”. Learn to live with less. Stop drinking 5 dollar lattes and going out to eat. Stop driving into town just for something to do. Use coupons. Grow your own food. Quit worrying about how green your grass is. Turn off lights or any other electrical crap when your not using it. Shop at thrift stores…. Whatever it takes. But geez, at least drink real coffee! And be debt free at the same time!

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                • Bill says:

                  Another thing I do is check out the coffee companies that deliver and take care of commercial coffee equipment. They ALWAYS have big bags of coffee that get busted in transport or coffee that has gone past the expiration date. I have one I go to that gives me the stuff. It all tastes the same to me. Now I just need to figure out how to get my cream free. None of that fake junk for me. Coffee-Mate tastes like chemicals… Oh wait. It is chemicals….

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          • BigB says:

            I gotta agree with you Paranoid. Next to electricity coffee would be the thing I miss most. Saw a grocery store going out of business about a year ago and they were selling vacum (sp?) packed 1 pound bags of coffee for 1.00 each. I bought the whole case on the spot. Don’t care what the expiration date is as I will drink really bad coffe before going without. Instant coffee? Don’t think so, may have to start digging roots first or boiling chickory bark.

            BigB

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          • Archivist says:

            What are you going to drink after the 10-year supply runs out?

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            • Paranoid says:

              Wait another few years and then go down in the basement and breakout the emergency supplies. Ain’t nothing worth doing that’s not worth overdoing. I’m the guy that has 350# of 150 year old solid shot for a cannon I don’t even have. Only thing that keeps me from having everything I’ll ever need for the rest of my life is a nice wife that tells me if I get any more, the rest of my life won’t be long.

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          • The mention of collecting cans takes me back quite a few years…long ago we use to buy day old calves and bottle feed them. My husband and I took a lot of drives up the logging roads looking for mushrooms to pick. Along the way we would watch for beer and pop cans. Found a lot and I would cash them in to buy grain for the calves. We have been living like this for a long time. I guess we can say that we have prepped for many decades.

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        • Mark says:

          Where I live, the Karankawa used yaupon holly in their sweat lodges. Sometimes I dry the leaves and drink the tea. It tastes like Pekoe tea, somewhat. But it’s so astringent that it can make you puke. That’s why the botanical name is “Ilex vomitoria”. Really…

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          • Archivist says:

            I learned that in biology class in high school. The teacher said that the Indians would have a big feast. When they got full, they would drink yaupon tea, run into the bushes, throw up, then go back and eat some more.

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        • Smokey says:

          Go without the ersatz coffee, it can’t be worth the calories to gather and prepare.

          $200 worth of coffee or tea is going to last a very long time. That’s 10,000 teabags of store brand.

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    9. Big X says:

      Salt, pepper, cinnamon, dried onions, disposable razors (good for many shaves) finger nail clippers, gill nets, pocket knives, naptha, matches (great 12 bar blues song: Standin’ here a wonderin’ would a matchbox hold my clothes) homemade snares, use washers for locks, everclear for when you run out of pain meds, aspirin, ibuprofon, benadryl, jerky, tobacco (sack your own).
      Keep your ammo, don’t trade or sell it unless it’s to your brother.

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      • Disposable razors rust before they go dull. Keep the head in a cup of pure alcohol (not 70%) between uses and it will last much longer. They can also be sharpened by running them across a pair of old jeans (away from you) 10-20 times. Do this with the blade and not the way you sharpen a knife.

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      • laura m. says:

        Big X, etc..Yep I’ll get some extra nail clippers and nail files, more ginger, salt and turmeric if allergic to cinnamon, extra scissors, knives of all types, knife sharpeners. I would only trade ammo for another caliber like buckshot for .22′s or .223, etc. Skin lotions, creams, hair dye, makeup have expiration dates like otc medicine, so I won’t stock up much on these. Bleach also has short exp date. Many dependent on drugs like diabetics and ht patients, those on dialysis, etc will be in dire straights.

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        • sixpack says:

          We found a gallon of clorox in the garage from the 1970′s. It was very strong, so we had to dilute it to use it without eating the cloth like acid. I do not agree that chlorine bleach expires in any real sense of the word, only in a consumer market-think.

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    10. Ugly says:

      It will be a shock wave when SHTF. Only about 1% are prepared, and maybe another 5% somewhat prepared(Uglys group). This leaves 94% wondering what is happening, or what has happened.

      You need to prepare now mentally, spiritually, physically, and with preps stuff such as food and water.

      If America was United I would feel that we have a chance. But we are definitely divided. Weird days are coming and are already here.

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    11. Luther says:

      “Many good people will suffer and many bad people will thrive in that climate.
      I like to think I am pretty well prepared, but I’m reminded differently all the time
      when I need something that is readily available right now”

      How many of us try to prep for everything? ME for one until I came to the realization that pioneers crossed this land with the tools to start new lives in the back of the wagon.

      It is easy to over think this, I keep going back to the basics, the K.I.S.S method.

      It’s just like the push for expensive scopes & optics when many are not proficient with open sights first.

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      • Slick says:

        Luther,
        I agree with your KISS analogy to the extent that one should go back
        To basics, and not over think your situation, or make an easly escapable
        Overly complicated trap and expect everything to go to plan.
        But,
        There are an awful lot of pioneers buried from the East side to the West side
        of the US that at some point probably wished they had that one thing they
        had been thinking about before they embarked on their journey.
        I am guilty to some extent of over prepping in some areas,
        But I like my EOTech sight!

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        • Luther says:

          Not arguing you reply because you are right many died..

          But
          How many died because they were unskilled for the journey they attempted or may not have had the mental toughness either.

          But,
          Yes, if many others could have brought that something extra that they may have made it.

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          • Commie hater says:

            Cholera killed a bunch of pilgrams. The cholera bug (Vibrio comma) is in the diarrheal stool and overwhelming dehydration and electrolye loss is what kills. We have antibiotics now that kills cholera bugs (get some). Infected stools leach into the water supply and they camped along contaminated rivers and streams. Those pilgrams didn’t know about typhoid and cholera except that it kills. Boil all water. I repeat, boil all water when SHTF.
            Semper Fi

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      • ENFP says:

        Don’t forget the pioneers had animal power

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      • sixpack says:

        Bad people will only thrive until good people catch up with them.

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    12. a mixed race guy, a muslim, a disbarred lawyer, a liar went into a bar, the bartender asked him “what will it be Mr president

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    13. Say When says:

      I have in the past tried to influence as many into prepping as possible. The one thing that I always try to say is, go home and either turn off all electric power to your house for the weekend or just imagine that the power is off. Now, what do you need to survive. You could play pretend and assume that the power is not going to come back on for an unspecified length of time, maybe weeks or months.
      Filling the bathtub with water is good for maybe a very few days but what if the power does not come back on. Long term water acquisition is the best goal. Water purification a must. The cheapest way for water purification system is found on You Tube entitled (EMERGENCY WATER FILTER SYSTEM SHTF) Go to the you tube video and watch. The cheapest candle filters can be obtained from Cheaper Than Dirt. About $22.
      Cooking food, maybe with 1 lb. propane canisters, $5 for 2 at Wally World. Buy a lot of 1 lb. canisters of propane. Possible barter item later. Propane stove, propane lanterns, matches, and of course food storage for long term. Pick up a couple extra 20 pounder propane tanks and if you have the ability and storage area pick up a 100 pounder.
      Guns and ammo. Getting extremely difficult to afford ammo but shotshells are still readily available.
      Not many folks would want to go up against a couple shotguns.
      If you can afford it and have a well, a lot of well drilling companies can add a hand pump to the existing wellhead. Ain’t cheap. Approx. $3,000 dollars, but in todays world that’s about 6 months car payments, and it may save your life.
      Could probably go on forever on this subject, but a lot of this info has already been expressed adnauseam. Don’t forget seeds, hand tools for garden, etc.
      God Bless All And Be Safe! KEEP PREPPING.

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      • Gone2Hilo says:

        A Handy Pump is the way to go if you have a well. We have already installed ours and it works like a charm for less than $200. Pull it up on the Internet. Wouldn’t be without it with what’s coming. Can’t live without water! Not affiliated with them at all…just a happy customer. Glad I found it. Was looking at a Flojack for over $500 but this does the same thing & easier installation.

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      • hammerhead says:

        “well drilling companies can add a hand pump to the existing wellhead. Ain’t cheap. Approx. $3,000 dollars”

        holy cow @say when!
        around here a new well w/hand pump will run ya 1500.00 ,
        and thats on the upside .
        no wonder you folks are fillin bathtubs , yuck !

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        • TX Granny says:

          Wow! Here in W TX a water well with pump will run you about $10,000, and there’s about a 6 week waiting list!!! And that’s for a shallow well. Deeper is even more expensive!

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          • DRD5508 says:

            Granny, the shallow well, is it for brackish water? I also live in west Texas. Which county you in? I’m in both Hudspeth and El Paso. At my ranch, we figure I’ll get brackish water under 200 feet.

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        • Say When says:

          Hammer,
          Only want to do this once. Pump to cost $900., 280 ft. of pipe, new flange, etc. Besides that, getting those folks out here in the boonies isn’t cheap.
          Realize the cost is high, but like I said, only want to do this once and only the best products to be used since my life and those of my loved ones depend on this place as a BOL. To each their own.

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      • sheptical citizen says:

        LP is a great fuel. Lp never goes stale like diesel & gas. Myself I have a LP generator, tractor and a pickup that is dual fuel Lp or gasoline. We have a 250 gal tank that I fill in the summer when demand is low & prices are cheaper. I have a electric transfer pump that I use to fill the tractor and 100 pound bottles. Ive filled & stored as many 100 LB bottles as I could aquire. I also refill those 1 pound cannisters. I use a 1/4 full 100 lb bottle and attach a hose connecting the two together. hang the 100 lb upside down and let the pressure equalize. Im also in the process of buildig a wood gassifier that could power a vehicle. I store water for gardening etc, in large cattle watering troughs filled by the rain gutters

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    14. I’ve purchased cheap from Craigslist everything from two one-year food storage packages ($100 each) from a guy moving to Mexico to the doors for my secluded retreat.

      Freecycle has provided me with free pressure cookers and mason jars, an exercise treadmill for the 12 volt motor/generator, building materials, and even a fold-down attic ladder for my loft. Click on my user name to find an online group near you.

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      • TX Granny says:

        Thanks for the info! I signed up for the local group, and spent a little time looking at some of the posts. I have several items to give away, and may post some of my “wants”!

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      • DRD5508 says:

        Thanks PP, didn’t find a group in my area though but I’ll keep tabs of the sight.

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    15. buzzfix says:

      This article was a good one. Better than the one from the other day on how to wear camo in San Francisco lol. Keep hoarding i mean prepping and the DSM-5 can K.I.S.S. my ass. When SHTF we’ll all know who really has the mental problem!

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      • Bill Gates love child. says:

        Psychiatry is a sweet gig. You get to dream up “disorders” then treat (they never say cure) them. Nobody can ever say you’re not making progress treating the imaginary “disorder”.

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    16. Trailer Park Investor says:

      NOTE:
      One Very Important thing NOT mentioned is Antibiotics. You can go to the doctor and get a scrip and fill it, but why, when you can go to the pet shop and buy the very same Amoxicylin (and other antibiotics) as an aquarium (fish) treatment. Or you can go to ebay and buy aquarium antibiotics by the thousands and it’s cheap. You need these IF you get sick (flu, pneumonia etc.), infection, serious cuts, abraisions etc. Because when you or anyone you know gets REAL sick NOTHING else will work like Antibiotics. And IF you can’t get them YOU are going to die.
      Stock up now!!!
      Just be sure you DO NOT buy the antibiotics that fizzes as it will start fizzing the moment you put it in your mouth, you don’t want that, believe me. And Antibiotics after SHTF will be worth their weight in GOLD…
      Because when you need antibiotics, NOTHING ELSE will work. You can drink herbal tea until you explode, but nothing works like antibiotics.

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      • Satori says:

        note of caution on self medication

        antibiotics can and do react badly with other meds
        both prescription and OTC over the counter and herbals

        thoroughly research what you are taking

        good sites for info on fish antibiotics

        http://armageddonmedicine.net/

        http://www.doomandbloom.net/

        both of the docs on these two sites have put out their own
        WTSHTF books

        I can highly recommend both

        also get copies of

        Where There Is No Doctor
        and
        Where There Is No Dentist

        I also recommend printing out info on sanitation
        I know it is not a glamorous topic
        but poor sanitation will kill you quick in a post SHTF situation

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      • JayJay says:

        Thomas Labs dot com.

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        • HighN'Dry says:

          Aquatic Pharmacy dot com too. Widest selection I’ve found, no affiliation. They stock Levofloxacin, Cefdinir, Minocycline, Azithromycin and Augmentin, in addition to the usuals. Found them when Thomas Labs quit selling erythromycin (a macrolide, like Azithromycin). For those with Pen allergies, macrolides are often the first-line substitues for some infections.

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    17. Satori says:

      *****MERS UPDATE*****

      as was speculated earlier today
      Morocco is now officially reporting a case of MERS

      total confirmed cases stand now at 50

      MERS is now found in 9 countries

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    18. Sebastion T. says:

      I haven’t had a lot of luck with antibiotics from doctors.

      Make Oil of Oregano: Use a 1:1 ratio of oregano to olive oil. I add 1/2 cup of oregano to 1/2 cup of olive oil. USES: Congestion, Sore Throats, Flu, Colds, Pnuemonia, and Digestion – Add 2 drops to a glass of water, stir well, and drink, twice a day. For sinus congestion rub some dilute oil of oregano directly on your sinuses. Inhibits parasites. Rub into Sore Muscles to relieve pain and inflammation. Oregano oil is widely known as a potent germ-killer & antihistimine.

      -Wash and dry fresh Oregano.
      -Place oregano leaves in ziplock bag (don’t close) and cover with towel.
      -Pound on the bag with a meat mallet. This releases the oils.
      -Heat up some olive oil or grape seed oil until warm. Do not boil.
      -Add oil to the oregano bag and squeeze the mixture for a minute.
      -Pour mixture into a clean glass jar; keep cool, and dry for 2 weeks.
      -After 2 weeks, strain oregano from oil. Oil of oregano should not be used when pregnant.

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    19. Satori says:

      I know probably most people here have seen this list a dozen times
      but just in case there are new kids on the block…

      100 Items to Disappear First

      http://www.thepowerhour.com/news/items_disappearfirst.htm

      and this has always been one of my favorite pieces of advice from that list

      “7. The feeling that you’re human can fade pretty fast. I can’t tell you how many
      people I knew who would have traded a much needed meal for just a little bit of
      toothpaste, rouge, soap or cologne. Not much point in fighting if you have to
      lose your humanity. These things are morale-builders like nothing else.”

      stockpile some of these and other “luxury” items

      I know when I’m backpacking
      and get stuck in the tent during a rainy day
      a hot cup of crappy instant coffee and a stale honey bun
      is the best tasting thing in the world

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      • Canadian Vet says:

        Amen to that. I’ve spent enough time in the field and overseas to know that small comforts are essential to keeping your head screwed on tight out there. And that is why during my R&R I made sure to stock up on spices, and my dear mom sent me small bottles of maple syrup and that made my rations closer to being enjoyable real meals instead of nominally edible fuel for the furnace.

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      • Mark says:

        Yeah, when you’re out there for a long time, you itch (I have urticaria), you stink, you’re beard grows, you get blisters on your heels, you get sunburnt, if you work hard your blood sugar can get so low that you feel drunk, and chiggers and mosquitoes bite you. You want to hear music, or hide in a cave, or swim in a cold stream. One time I rubbed rosemary leaves in my hair. Having a Bible to read helps me.

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      • HighN'Dry says:

        23. Propane Cylinder Handle-Holder (Urgent: Small canister use is dangerous without this item)

        I’ve made hundreds of these from bending old metal coat hangers. If the SHTF, I’m gonna be RICH!

        jk. Not sure who originally came up with that list, but he deserves a place in the prepper hall of fame.

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        • Montana Mike says:

          >>>High-N-Dry<<<

          I've read that list many times including #23. Not sure what it does or why needed. Can you give some details or link?? No,I don't have a factory in China waiting for the plans!!

          {MM}

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    20. Sierra Dave says:

      Buy up lots of Hydrogen Peroxide. It’s pretty cheap.

      Aspirin and caffeine too. And some cheap allergy medicine.

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      • Archivist says:

        Aspirin goes bad. If you open a bottle and it smells like vinegar, it’s decomposed. Look into plant sources.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4

        • Paranoid says:

          True, but it likely still works and if kept dry and cool will last decades, most aspirin that goes bad was kept in bathroom, most humid place in your house. Willow bark was used for headaches.

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    21. Paranoid says:

      Two items to think about, 1. Sewing stuff, a lot of things now being tossed will be fixed and sewing stuff will be at a premium. 2. All the MD’S and nurses we have will still be around, But they will run out of Gauze, pads, Q-tips, tape, Iodine, peroxide, and most OTC drugs fairly fast. (I have had seven operations in the last 3 years, better now, you would be amazed how much gauze I used) Stock up, if you don’t need them the Dr’s will, and that’s a good group to know.

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    22. Mensa Graham says:

      Is this article referring to my several thousand rounds of .22′s that you can’t seem to get anymore? Only wish I had the 10 thousand that was suggested when you could actually buy them.

      I also have a few hundred .38 specials. Tip – find a reloader in your area. Google or go to a gun show. They are there doing business for those who do go to gun shows or know to google a reloader. Last prices paid were $15.99 per 50 .38 specials. Reasonable.

      Do not tell the stupids.

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      • Paranoid says:

        Last two times I went to store got Brick of 22, it’s out there. Have managed to get about 3000 rds of 22, in last 3 months, could have got more. Keep looking it’s getting better. Got another 2,000 of 45,40,and 9MM

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      • Smokey says:

        Ammo is coming back, anyone who is short of what they need will be able to stock up this summer.

        Don’t panic buy any ammo, it’s just keeping the prices up for the scalpers. If you have no ammo at all, then go buy one brick of .22 or two boxes of centerfire, no more than that. Put it away. Then wait for lower prices later this year.

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    23. you can buy antibiotics from a link on this site. I purchased through it and got a great deal on the meds

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    24. braveheart says:

      The only part of the article I question is the ‘illegal’ part. In post-SHTF, there will be TOTAL BREAKDOWN OF LAW AND ORDER, NO LE AROUND, NO COURTS IN SESSION, ETC. Nobody is going to care about what’s illegal; hell, they don’t care about it now and there’s no SHTF yet. Once everything starts getting out of hand, it’s going to be no-holds barred, anything goes. The only thing that will matter will be survival, period! Anyone who comes to my place for anything, I’ll give them ONLY ONE CHANCE to get away from my place ALIVE! If they make one wrong move on me,……… A great many people will die of numerous causes in the first phase of SHTF. The first ones to die will be people on any kind of life support, diabetics, dialysis, people on any kind of medications, etc. The most dangerous people will be people with substance abuse issues. When they find out they can’t get their fix anymore, they’ll go around to people’s homes looking for any kind of alcohol, drugs, etc. Most likely the only way to deal effectively with those people will be a bullet to the head. same will most likely applyto gangangers, etc. After the first phase has passed, then the great culling will begin. In the final chapter of “One Second After”, it was estimated that 1 year after the EMP hit that only 30,000,000 out of a population of 330,000,000 were still alive and THAT WAS ONLY ESTIMATE! If that scenario becomes real, I suspect the real figure will be less than 30,000,000. it’s been estimated by others that 9 out of 10 Americans will be dead 1 year after an EMP event; I’d give them 3 months and that may be a bit generous on my part. Everyone’s lives will change forever and nothing will ever be the same again. It will be hell on earth. I dread it, but still prepping for it. I believe I’ll be equal to the task. braveheart

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      • Ugly says:

        Bravehart.

        That emp scenario could definitely happen anytime. But I feel I real threat in next 3 years on a worldwide basis is:

        1. World Economic Collapse
        2. USA Dollar Collapse
        3. WWIII, or at least warfare at a larger scale.

        Those 3 will disrupt all of our lives on a daily basis worldwide.

        I can now see why people will take the chip. It will be their only economic hope. It will be their only way to feed their children. Need to prepare, but preparing will never be 100% satisfactory for the situation.

        You are right, the very near future could have 80% of folks gone.

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        • JustOneGuy says:

          Hody Ug!

          I’m with YOU on your list above..in fact, I’d go so far as to say that your list MIGHT well be a sequential ‘blue-print’ of how ‘IT’ might happen. IF either 1 or 2 occurs – either – then it will all but certainly trip the other (whichever) and almost equally certainly as the general state of affairs deteriorates, 3 WILL be the final result: when shit is going REAL bad at home, the various ‘goobermints’ will, in FULL ‘desperation-mode’ to save their OWN asses, be looking for ANY diversion – no matter HOW BAD…actually the BADDER, the BETTER from thier perspective – of the People, to save their own little pencil-necked butts from the Hangings they SO rightly DESERVE…hence ALL THREE…for the price of ONE!!

          Gee, I’m so ‘Cheery’ today…ain’t I? Have a good one Friend

          JOG

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          • Ugly says:

            JOG….

            Thanks for reply, and good luck on your chose locale.

            The Bible says,

            ‘The more the knowledge, the more the grief’….Eccs.

            The reason why you are cheery is because you, as many others on this site, can see the terrible road ahead. We would ‘feel’ better if others would just spend the time and read and begin preparing the best they can.

            The unprepared will be the ones to take down some of the prepared. That is, folks will torch houses down if they think someone has something. Folks will slaughter for a bowl-of-soup because logic becomes illogic.

            The best folks can do is work together.

            But panic will be the result. Not logic.

            If and when WWIII arrives?

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            • Anonymous says:

              Ugly, It also says “My pepple perish for lack of knowledge.”

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              • Ugly says:

                Anon….true, the lack of knowledge will the many perish. People need to learn about their food. Now is not the time for laziness.

                JOG. Too bad it is 9 days and counting. But I wish you well. I am frantically working on a time machine where a final 24 hour period follows relativity, thus you might be here another 2 years.

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            • JustOneGuy says:

              Howdy UG!

              Actually, both you and ANON beelow are right… simulataneously. the AWAKENED, Living Mind is a Blessing …surely, there can be no doubt there, but too…it IS difficult, especially for thoe whose Hearts are not made of stone…

              Most here will have ‘imnagnied’ what MIGHT come….any who have done so and who have not held thier Faces in thier hands and wept, are unworthy of the Life they were given. Many of those exists in the World today, thier time is already MEASURED though, and soon they will trouble His Chidren NO MORE…

              …Who does NOT know THIS?

              JOG *9 days*

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      • I Do Recall U sayin says:

        @ BH. So…..since you used to be a substance abuser , that tells me you would probably be one of those whom might lurk about for the ROCK gut booze… correct ? I’m only quoting what you have stated in the past sir!

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        • sixpack says:

          It’s not the former substance ‘abuser’ that is the problem, It’s the lack of personal CONTROL. People who live their lives getting what they want for free or taking it, are the problem…they don’t know when enough is enough. “Abuse” is a relevant term subject to different definitions, by different types of people.

          You can have NO morals and yet have never committed an illegal act. You can have good morals, yet become a criminal—think government protesters and future gun owners…

          Let us remember that “substance abuse” is only what some congress critters says it is. Tomorrow, it may be illegal to drink tea or own guns. Those people who want to do what they want, even though they hurt nobody else, will be criminals according to “THE LAW”.

          “Criminal” is also subjective and relative.

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    25. Be informed says:

      I can’t believe how many free offers there are in coupon books and other sources. Many people see something as free that they don’t need as worthless, but someone out there will almost certainly want what you can get for free. We are not talking about shit here that is actually worthless. I am talking about those free samples like little shampoos, soaps, other free items that store well or indefititely. Throw them into the barter basket and save them for when someone needs them. These hotels, airlines, many other places offer these items and by keeping these for later, you are putting away future hard tanglible currency when it really counts.

      This may get you the label of the ultimate cheapo penny pincher, but those items are already small sized down and people WILL barter for them. Even items that have expired dates to them, if you can get it for free do it. The SHTF can happen anytime, the more items of barter you have the more value you have. Many places give out these tiny packages of sealed food, like a 1/2 oz bag of chips or peanuts or something. Grab them and put them away. Desperate people will trade for them, even partially stale.

      One item that is sold at garage sales a lot are spare parts. You might be able to get a large can of nails, screws, bolts, etc. for a $1 or $2 and these are not only nice to have for personal use rather than running to the hardware store, but highly prized when there are no hardware stores.

      You don’t have to be some sort of collector or pack rat, you can neatly store up many items that will fetch much the barter price. Rememeber the motto, never pass up something for free that someone could use someday, that is future post SHTF money you are potentially throwing away.

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      • kevin says:

        Whats up brother.

        Glad to see you still post here, your insight is much appreciated. (hey, no one will EVER kick you out for telling truths here brother) :)

        I have just recently began reading shtfplan again.

        God bless, and keep us up to date on the earth movements)

        PS- what the hell did the usgs do to their website, I think it is useless now!!

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      • Smokey says:

        Been using yard sales lately for prepping goods, it’s spring and the pickings are good. Last couple of weeks:

        Like new Sorel felt-lined boots, $15.
        Coffee can of new drill bits, $5
        Toothbrushes in retail hangers, $0.50 each
        Plastic funnels, free box
        Bag of candles, $2
        Brake or wheel puller tool, $5
        Rifle cleaning kit, $2, came with large bottle of Hoppe’s and a bag of cleaning patches when I asked.
        Half-box Remington 30.06 ammo, $5
        5-gallon bucket of saved ammo brass, $5, so far pulled out 75 rounds .303 British brass would cost $40 retail
        Food dehydrator, $4
        Large quality-made soup pot, like new, $8
        Shelf full of part cans and bottles of garage stuff, WD40, Gumout, LockEZE, sealant, thinners, axle grease, etc., most over half full, some new unopened, $1.
        A few tool sockets and extensions, $0.10 each, had to pick out the Craftsman stuff.

        Could have bought a lot more if I didn’t already have 45 years worth of tools and such, and a full kitchen.

        Will look for :

        Handloading components
        Cast-iron cooking gear new in box
        Quality hand tools
        Extension ladders
        Digging tools
        Hand augers
        Barb- or concertina wire spool
        Good optics, binoculars or scopes
        Candles, wicks, candle molds, paraffin
        Mason jars, pressure canner
        Etc., etc.

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        • Bill says:

          Great finds! I’m amazed at what a guy can find at garage sales. One persons trash another persons prep.

          We have a place in town that’s called The Woman’s Resource Center. People donate things to them and the money goes to help battered women I guess. Anyway, they are another great source of preps. My wife found a huge box of Mason Jars there a couple weeks ago for ten bucks.

          I’m thinking of opening The Mans Resource Center to help us battered men :)

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        • WomanoftheWoods says:

          I love the garage sale/classifieds. I have recently found a fully certified wood stove to heat my home for for the hauling away, a fancy kettle called the harmonica for two bucks at the salvation army store, and last weekend we got a 1987 camper trailer in almost perfect condition, over 30 feet long and fully equipped with bathroom and stove, quite nice and useable. The formerly attached cabana is now going to be my chicken coop, if a very stylish one with real pine paneling and tile floors. This was ours for the work of taking it all away, as a camp changed ownership and older trailers had to go. It was new in 1987 when it was parked there, and the current owners had no way or place to move it to. We borrowed a truck, and a trailer for the cabana from friends for a day.
          I also recently got a drum wool carder for 20 bucks. They are 100′s of dollars new, online. This one is old, but actually has more features and works perfectly.
          Love to spend only $22.00 plus gas and time to get well over $6000.00 of useful things, if bought new.
          My husband teased me until the travel trailer. Now he says bring it on, and overlooks my yarn piles and weaving stuff.(also almost free).

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      • Bill Gates love child. says:

        You can make a lot of repairs with a roll of plastic, a box of drywall screws, and a box of nails. A roll of steel wire is cheap, and you can cobble a lot of things back together with it. If you can use something, so can everybody else.

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      • Montana Mike says:

        >>>BeInformed<<>>Kevin<<< and I along with those who follow the site regularly want to know how to "see' the actual locations.

        Thank you!!

        {MM}

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      • Leonard says:

        Don’t know how many pizza freaks are out there, but Papa John’s–my payday Friday dinner source for about 15 years, always offers fistfuls of packaged spices for adding to your pizza once home. I always accept them, and have about 10 lbs of these packets in ziploc bags to make less palatable grub of the future a little easier to get down…

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    26. Nehweh Gahnin says:

      Dumpster diving! Something for everyone.

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    27. When the hoards start coming and some will be shot, who is going to be the cleanup man? Body disposal…Pre-dug ditches?

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      • just remeber to use the skulls on your fence posts..it gives the next guy something to think about..just kidding

        Not

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      • common sense says:

        Body disposal is a serious issue.
        The best solution I have come up with are cars.
        Plenty of them to go around.
        Each one will handle 4 or more bodies.
        Prestocked with gas and oil.
        Pick axe or similar tool to punnch some holes in the floor.
        Dent down the roof to create some pools and put a tiny hole in the bottom.
        Oil on the roof, bodies and gas in the car, crack the windows, easy incinerator.
        No more worries about all those nasty things that like to breed on dead people.

        Of course make sure you take hazmat precautions when handling.

        Hope to never use this but prep is prep. Dirty, clean or indifferent.

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      • Paranoid says:

        Where do you think I’m going to get the used clothes and Jerky for my 2ed hand store?

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    28. HighN'Dry says:

      Selco…. Read some of his stuff, most seems good advice. But call me skeptical about all his after-the-fact remembrances. I read his “The Reality of Combat” (March 2013), how his buddy lost his leg helping an old lady in the street and came under fire, and how he dragged him to safety. How many years has he been blogging? And this is first time he mentions this?

      I could be wrong, happy to be so – but I call BS on some of his writings.

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      • JayJay says:

        HighnDry–they probably outsourced that writing job and he is sitting in Pakistan!!!

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      • High Noon says:

        HighN’Dry:

        I have no Idea, but somebody way smarter than me once said ” “YOU GOT TO FALLOW THE MONEY’”

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      • Eisenkreuz says:

        I don’t think he’s a fake. But I admit that most soldiers like to tell tall tales.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 7

        • High Noon says:

          eisen:

          Really, An your “SOURCE’ On both points???? Please come back. I think not.

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        • I don’t give a rip if part of an article may not have happened. I do enjoy all of these responses, the joining together of ideas. It feels like a good ole family get-together…

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        • Commie hater says:

          You’re right, Eisen. Most in the military were never issued rifles and half of those with rifles never fired them except for a few rounds in boot camp. We haven’t had a constitutional war since WWII.

          Everybody now was either a seal or a sniper. Liars and mercenaries I calls ‘em.

          Commies everywhere.

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      • Jack says:

        High N Dry— ya gotta keep it interesting for the suckers to keep buying your “survival course”…….

        I bet the dude lives in Malibu on the beach.

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      • lastmanstanding says:

        Having read thru all of the comments on this article and having seen some of his shit posted here in the past, I’ll be frank.

        If you need to pay for and hang on his every word, you are fucked.

        Long and short of it is, if you can’t figure out how the earth works, eventually you won’t be here.

        To many people must have the fruits of others to make it. That is not how it works.

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        • Ugly says:

          Lastmanstanding….

          That isn’t totally true. The ‘ones’ that will be surprised are the so-called prepared and then got a big surprise.

          .How many experienced pilots have flown into a storm?
          .What are the mountaineer numbers that have fallen to their deaths?
          .How many swimmers have drowned?
          .How many joggers have had heart attacks?

          Never think you are fully prepared and can learn no more. The SHTF event will shock all of us. Keep going, and even try to help the lame. Good luck.

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          • lastmanstanding says:

            Just stating the facts Ugly…some choke under pressure.

            I life without a bit of turmoil to stimulate the brain is no life at all.

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        • Leonard says:

          What material like Selco’s can do is offer some sort of validation to those ideas which may have already occurred to us, but are based only upon our instincts. A man who says he’s been through it, and explains his handling of any situation isn’t wasting my reading time. If he shows my idea to be wrong, then I at least have a starting point for reassessing my hypothetical “plan”. Also, Lastmanstanding, not everyone who finds himself reading this blog is necessarily starting out where we are, and Selco’s ideas will at least help them to figure out what they need to do NOW. Hopefully, the rest of us responding with our own experiences here will also help those newbies on their path…

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          • lastmanstanding says:

            Leonard…survival instinct is in ALL of us. Look deep and believe in yourself.

            I don’t know him personally so I’m not inclined to pay much attention to his stuff, let alone pay for it.

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    29. braveheart says:

      One of the most important items NO prepper should ever be without is a high-quality fixed blade knife, a folding knife, and a good multitool. Plus, PLENTY of knife sharpening equipment; stones, diamonds, honing oil, etc. You can never have too much knife-sharpening equipment. An extra fixed blade or folder isn’t a bad idea, either. I collect a few knives myselfd only topname brands like Gerber, Kershaw, Buck, SOG. even have a couple of old Wenger Swiss Army knives, my favorite since I was a kid. Machetes, tomahawks, and axes are also very handy to have. plus, exrta cleaning gear for your firearms is definitely a must. braveheart

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      • Eisenkreuz says:

        Cold Steel Vaquero XL

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        • Bill Gates love child. says:

          The $5 knock-off ‘combat’ knife you got at Wal Mart works much better than the $150 tacticool knife you keep drooling over.

          Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 6

          • Walt Kowalski says:

            Actually…that $5 knockoff you got at Wally World will probably fail you just when you need it most.

            You don’t scrimp on the equipment to which you are entrusting your life.

            “You get what you pay for” definitely applies here.

            You don’t need to spend $500 on a custom knife…though there are some in that price range that are practically indestructible….but you want a quality knife that will stand up to some abuse and still hold an edge and be easy to re-sharpen.

            ESEE, Cold Steel, Ontario, Kabar….all make good blades at reasonable prices that won’t let you down when the pucker-factor goes up.

            Spend a little more for something from companies like Swamp Rat knives, Scrapyard knives and some custom makers like Surviveknives.com and you’ve got an awesome tool.

            Go all out and get a Busse and you’ll never have to worry about it failing you when you need it most.

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          • Leonard says:

            Until it comes time to sharpen it…

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      • Randall #1 fighter (from the mid 70′s)

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        • Walt Kowalski says:

          I love Randall’s….I’ve owned several of them. Their quality is superb.

          However…..I never used them. They were too pretty. I hated to get them scratched and dinged up. So….they ended up being safe-queens.

          If you’ve got a Randall from the mid-70′s, it’s pretty much a collector item for sure.

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    30. J. Roy says:

      This is excellent practical advice. Stock up on necessities and carry extra items that are likely to be overlooked; flints are a great idea.

      Other ideas might be cheap pocketknives, shaving razors, can openers and manual tools, empty sandbags, 2×4′s, eyeglass repair kits, nylons, deep cycle marine batteries, condoms…the list is limited only by your imagination.

      J. Roy

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      • Bill Gates love child. says:

        Cheap reading glasses from the DS. If she lost her real glasses, my mom would pay dearly for a pair of these.

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    31. Satori says:

      *****MERS UPDATE*****

      talk about the “fog of war”

      the government of Morocco has just
      announced that that particular pt has tested negative for MERS

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    32. Black Cohosh says:

      When the SHTF nothing beats mountain money.

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    33. The Republic Strikes Back says:

      The ultimate target here is the complicite media. None of this is possible without them , they very much hope to avoid being noticed. Seems they can’t get far enough away from Obamacare, Gunwalker, The IRS BS, Benghazi, etc. because they wanted all of it to happen, worked diligently to make it so in fact but they don’t want any of the blame for what follows… So that they can continue to play the same games over and over again as they have been for decades

      It’s profitable to manipulate people but only if you don’t get caught or blamed for it. When that happens, you start looking for other places to live, somewhere else in the world where people don’t know you or what you did. Don’t think they don’t worry about that from time to time because they know or at least fear what will happen should it all come out and it needs to be fully exposed, so more of the sheeple are awakened.

      This is the reason why they are making noises about us bloggers and licensing free speech. Some of them have started to stain their fruit of the looms, because of the critical thinkers, and the ability to put it together.

      after all they are human too, and stupid ones at that…almost as stupid as the sleeping class..maybe just a bit more even.

      you might be amazed at how many people you would never suspect are awake, they just aint talking about it for many possible reasons.

      face to face meetings tell alot more than words on a screen

      if you are here, you are doing the right thing..dont be afraid to see whos awake, it might surprise you

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      • Luther says:

        “you might be amazed at how many people you would never suspect are awake, they just aint talking about it for many possible reasons.”

        Q. They are not talking for OPSEC reasons or they fear a visit from the IRS?

        Sarcasm :)

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      • Bill Gates love child. says:

        I call FF on the Ricin letters. An obvious ploy to kickstart the gun grab. Why bother sending a poisoned letter to the president? Everybody knows it would never make it to the white house.

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    34. Luther says:

      A friend’s sump pump runs continuously, he set up a well pump so he can filter the water. Something to consider!

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    35. 3n3my of th3 Stat3 says:

      worth a listen …

      SHOCKING: OBAMA INTENDS TO COLLAPSE US ECONOMY – Ann Barnhardt http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvfzrFGCXos&feature=player_embedded

      N.O. ;0p

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    36. GOING DOWN says:

      TOP IS IN TODAY on the DJIA — nowhere to go but down.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

    37. Hello everybody,
      To any who are interested, I suggest Selco’s course is a great cheap
      way to learn from first hand experience what it’s like when life gets cheap. Many interesting points to be had.
      These things were confirmed for me when I was working with some guys that were in that conflict. People will shoot you for a pack of cigarettes when times get tough.

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    38. BigB says:

      Here are some items that I have been working on getting.

      Stuff that doesn’t go bad:

      Honey, I of course have my own hives.
      Sugar
      Wheat
      Dried Corn
      Baking Soda
      Instant Coffee, not for me, trading only
      Tea
      CoCo
      Non Carbonated soft drinks
      White Rice
      Bullion
      Powdered Milk
      Salt

      Things that can go bad but am working on getting and or adding to:
      Pectin
      Fishmoux
      fishflex
      vitamins

      Feed store:
      dried corn
      Rolled Oats

      The stuff that never goes bad above was from either this site awhile ago or from Daisy Luthers site. She has a ton of good ideas over there.

      And while I am at it, thanks once again to Mac for everythng you do. “Before I was lost and now I am found.” Good people at heart with a lot of great ideas.

      BigB

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      • HisArmsWide says:

        It’s been reported that most cillians last WAY beyond their expiration date. they just get a little weaker but could still be viable for as long as 10 years or more. Keep them in a cool but not freezing location for best lifespan.

        Do not stockpile cyclines after their expiration date, they’ll kill you.

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    39. Be informed says:

      @ Kevin. The USGS did to their web site what an idiot does by taking their regular street type vechicle and taking it off road for the weekend. What a train wreck. It is like they don’t want people to see what is going on. The governmemt does their best to hide the truth don’t they?

      Did you see that 8.3 north of the Kuril Islands. That sucker was over 600 km deep, a true deep focus earthquake and the largest one ever recorded. There was a 8.2 in 1994 in the Bolivia/Peru area of similar depth. We just continue to see these NEW records for earthquakes like the 9.0 in Japan a couple of years ago and the largest strike slip earthquake west of Indonesia last year. Something is up, even if it is a long term cycle, it shows something that people have not recorded.

      The USGS and the government royally pisses me with the way their hide the truth. I have read how these creeps downgraded the 1906 San Francisco earthquake to 7.7. Hey right, 270 miles of rupture, 21 feet of slippage and felt over 350,000 sq. miles of land from horizontal movement only a 7.7. That I bet came from those two worthless senators, feinsteinless, boxer, don’t forget pelosi, that don’t want to scare the people too much. after all a high 7 or 8 looks awful with tourism and real estate. This type of crap is so insultive to someone like me that knows how much energy comes from earthquakes. The San Andreas is also not as horizontal as people realize and this additional vertical movement will add to the magnitude a bit.

      I am so sick and tired of government lies and deception. The worst of them all is the skewed numbers on self defense. They will make firearms look as bad as possible to take our protection away from us. The next worst thing is that they have so many imbeciles that believe this government manure. Like those crap for brains that were trying to ban cooking equipment, pressure cookers that people use very extensively to can their garden vegetables. It is amazing to me just how many believe this government garbage.

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      • durango kidd says:

        BI: How many degrees has the north magnetic pole moved from its original location (when it was discovered back in the day) to where it is now?

        A 40% Change appears to be the tipping point.

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      • kevin says:

        @BI-

        “The USGS did to their web site what an idiot does by taking their regular street type vechicle and taking it off road for the weekend. What a train wreck. It is like they don’t want people to see what is going on”

        Exactly man.

        That website used to be very user friendly, now its garbage!!

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    40. braveheart says:

      Howdy, Ugly. I’m looking for WW3 to start simultaneously with an EMP strike or the EMP to come in at some point while the fighting is raging. The EMP alone can kill the economy and everything else. But there has to be a major false-flag event first, something worse than 911, to trigger the war. The globalists couldn’t possibly need more than one such event to push on with their agenda. Something’s coming and soon; I feel it. braveheart

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      • Kora M. says:

        Howdy BH, Is there any good Alcohol you would suggest me stocking up on to treat wounds, depression and so forth ?Thanx for your posts!

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        • Commie hater says:

          Alcohol is a depressant.

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        • Paranoid says:

          I have more than I will ever drink. But truthfully, if it’s for trade, don’t buy it. Alcohol is one of the few things than people can reliably make. For the price of a few cases of reasonable booze you can build a still. This is one of those items that gaining: knowledge, skill, and some fairly cheap materials can make you a job during the worst times.

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    41. braveheart says:

      This article is simple and straight to the point: http://www.resist1776.info/prepare-for-failure-when-shtfhammer1/

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    42. Little Red Hen says:

      Lots of great tips here tonight. Thanks to all

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    43. Be informed says:

      @ Durango kidd. Since a degree of latitude is about 70 miles, truth magnetic north has wandered about 800 miles from some of the older maps, or about 11 and 1/2 degrees. I imagine from the points several hundred years ago it has moved more than this. I know that a lot of compasses had to be realigned because of the increase of this in the recent decades. Airports also have had to make some serious adjustments. The speed of this is likely a destablishing magnetic field. JustOneGuy would know far more about this one than me.

      I do know that other planets, such as Mars, that don’t have a stronger magnetic field don’t have much of an atmosphere either. This is truly a danger, to lose much of that magnetic field of the planet. The air, the ozone layer, the protection from cosmic radiation is much determined from the magnetic field of the Earth. Some of these science programs have shown what would happen without much of a magnetic field, and it would at bare minimum affect the crops of the planet big time.

      While people see the crust shifting like the 2012 movie with the poles shifting polarity, the realistic danger is what it would do to the protection from space that layers of atmosphere provide. It has been said that a polar reversal that is very rapid is possible, this type of super fast movement is more reserved for much younger planets in the stage of development than an older planet such as the Earth. JustOneGuy is a true mega expert on this and can provide the horror of a totally destablized magnetic field around the planet.

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      • JustOneGuy says:

        Evening BI, DK,

        What’s new and interesting today? Thankfully the Folks that run the World have thus far successfully not BLOWN us all to ‘smithereens’…but I DO have FAITH that they KEEP trying… :( Elite ASSHOLES ALL! When will Humankind LEARN?!…Frankly, my own actions indicate directly, that I have SIMPLY ‘given-up’, yes, I know. The crisis of Faith that Humanity is experienceing in it’s Leaders will unfortunately be too late to save anyone, or so I fear.

        DK, there is a link in moderation relative to your quetion, you’ll have that when the moderation elapses. There is a variety of good, useful info thereat..but I’m not there sure what you’re getting towards so it’s hard to tell if that will help or not…if not, ask

        Of note to the both of you is this: on average, per my latest foray therein, I am apprised that the time between ‘Pole Shifts’ is about 400,000 years. – Geologically speaking – thia a regular thing…in fact, the Atlantic Ocean (as are the others as well) is seen to be ‘striped’ with alternating bands of opposing polarity it’s full North-South length. Additionally, we are apparently overdue for another ‘reversal’, as the last one of which we know of occured about 800,000 years ago (slightly less, actually). When last I ‘looked in on it’ the current read on the North Pole is that it is happily on it’s way to Siberia…ETA, about, Oh say, 200 years roudabouts. Those do move around quite a bit in time, nothing new or unexpected there.

        That said, BI is ‘spot-on’ on the implications were the Earth to lose it’s magnetic field in toto. Such would very shortly thereafter be the genesis of the end of all life on this planet, Why?

        If you were to ‘see’ the solar wind around the Earth actually flowing, you would see that it comes nowhere NEAR to the actual furthest upper reaches of our atmosphere at all…neither Mars, nor Venus has a significant field so wrapping the planet and it is the case that a continuous erosion of the atnosphere’s of both is constantly occuring. In the case of Mars, this state of affairs has reduced atmospheris pressures thereon to less than 1 pound per square inch (roughly) and that is a far cry from the pressure at Sea Level here on Earth, which is about 14 pounds/inch^2. As BI has noted a large per centage of the energetic particles which appraosch the Earth are never allowed to interact with it since the field so successully delects anything charged rather well. If not, then both the ozone layer overhead would be radically diminished and also the action of high energy quanta of light – photons – in the high X-band and Gamm-band as well would serve to prodce nitrogen dioxide in greater quantities than we currently see….a very bad ‘Winter’ would result…think the ‘Fimbulwinter” of Norse mythology. And no, Photons are NOT charged but the entirety of the atmosphere and the Earth’s magnetic field wotks rather hand-in-hand to provide the total effect we see here at the surface, thus safety for Life here.

        On the other hand, we have GOOD reason to beleive that about a half-billion years ago, during a period called the “Silurian-Ordovician” extinction that most of the life on this planet was extinguished via the action of an extraordinary GRB that wiped most of land masses of Life and much of the Life in the Ocean as well down to a depth of a few hundred feet.

        There is much in the geologic record which we do not have adequate explanations for…to be sure, our recordsets, contingent on our instrumentation, are very, very young in any real sense…many things cannot be ‘weighed in the balance’ by virtue of our lack of adequate data….such as global warming…and before ANYONE juumps on me therefor, I reiterate; there HAVE been in even the last few thousand years relatively large variances in the climate of the Earth which are not fully accounted for…and which OCCURED before ANY possible action of Humanking could have been involved…the Maunder Minimum, the Dalton, the Oort and others as well. We can infer things indirectly, but that has it’s limitations, naturally. Any other questions, feel free to ask, I’ll try to answer anything I can until I leave next week.

        BI, are you (I’m sure) keeping abreast of the Syria thing? Apparently the Russins have SUCCESFULLY moved in new battery’s of S-300′s and the Israeli’s are indicating – openly that THEY are going to obliterate those summarily, to say the least…THAT don’t look promising..what’s your latest read thereon Friend?

        JOG

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    44. Be informed says:

      @ JustOneGuy. Interesting that Israel is aying that there was no delivery of the S-300. Translation, Israel does not have any good options to more advanced anti-aircraft. If they attack it and kill Russians it could be the start of the end of Israel. If they leave it alone then it opens a door for more advanced surface to surface missiles to add to the already several hundred thousands aimed at Israel right now. Best option is to try to embarrass the “superior” Russia defenses and take their chances trying to evade it. If successful then they put a black eye to Russia and the arabs. Lose a lot of aircraft, then Israel is in deep manure because it shows weaknesses like the stalement with Hezbollah 7 years ago, AND it opens a door for a flood of more weapons pointing at Israel because it would be safer to transport them without air power trying to stop them. Bad and risky options.

      Israel and Russia are in the same boat, both of them are being encircled by their enemies and must act. Russia is actually in a better position because their eastern borders are fairly safe with the distance factor. The west and even south is an entirely different story. The biggest threat to Russia actually are the anti-ballastic missile batteries. That pure crap that the media talks about the anti-ICBM defense in Poland is absolutely geared towards Russia and NOT Iran. A more practical anti-Iran ICMB platform would have been in Greece, Turkey, or even Italy. One can see from the northern to the southern borders of western Russia that right slab in the middle is Poland and where the anti-ICBM batteries are at. Russia would have to be shear stupid not to see this.

      I have heard that this could not take down all the ICBM’s flying from Russia. TRUE, but it is not meant to. Other anti-ICBM forces are meant to at least dimish the number of ICBM’s that reach the U.S. Again, Russia ain’t stupid and knows this and why they are designing all sorts of new ICBM’s that don’t just go up and freefall down. These suckers zigzag and make it difficult to intercept. Also extremely fast hypersonic type of drones are meant to be launched to attempt to knock out Russian missiles before they reach a certain altitude. This is a golden reason that Russia cannot lose anymore land to the enemy, and WON’T. The response time is just too limited to react to get your missiles out of the ground in time. The chances of an accident are also vastly magnified now.

      Use to be that the U.S. and Russia both had a lot of time to react before the launch on warning. back in 1995 the U.S. launched a weather satellite over Norway, which resembled a submarine launch on Moscow. WW3 almost happened as Russia waited to see what the rocket would do. Now since Russia has been reduced to something like the U.S. losing most western states, does not have that luxary of response time. It becomes much more of a knee jerk reaction. Use them or lose them becomes a much more likely reaction to accidents that would have been avoided decades ago.

      I tell you, this world is on the brink. I could give you many more reasons why there is such trouble but I am having much trouble keeping my eyes open it is so late. Just one more thing, yes it is way more critical with Russia and even China in any other time in modern history other than the Cuban Missile crisis. Even back then there was just two nuclear powers, now there is 3 major and many other moderate nuclear countries. The powder keg has at lot more fuses to try to extinguish now.

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      • JustOneGuy says:

        Unfortunately, I have to concur with your outlook here BI.

        THIS is not helpful..but it IS instructive.

        Everything atound us is a cosequnce of the underying rules which are Physcial in nature, ie, you can’t buld a ‘Battleship out of Legos” and EXPECT it to do well. Physic TRUMPS all…

        Ever hear of the ‘Three-Body Problem”, it’s a simple problem from Classical Mechanics…for which NO analytic Solution EXISTS..period. There are ALL kinds of problems in the real World which are represented as the interaction of TWO thing alone which ARE readily solved…but when you ADD a third to those, then all of a sudden ‘POOF’..No solution can be obtained.

        Think poor JOG has gone ‘off-the-deep-end’ here? Not quite…such as this is the basis of much of ‘game theory’ and that is some ‘Hair-raising’ stuff, which for the most part is wholly counter-intuitive AND EXACTLY what the ‘Super Powers’ are doing each time they ‘interact’ on some level. Thus, the ‘complexity’ does not go up linearly…it goes up ‘Chaotically’…VERY badly so I might add.

        The uphot here is that the LIKLIHOOD of a miscalculation TODAY as a ‘three body’ type of problem rises in a way that we CANNOT accurately asses..again, PERIOD, or the reasons stated.

        China is suspected to be in possesion of enough Nuclear response to put both US AND the Russians to shame, multiple times OVER..they were NEVER signatory to ANY of the SALT or START treaty’s…and have ALWAYS been extemely ‘coy’ about their capabilities…

        Thus, here we are playing ‘footsie’s’ with the Russians while China bides it’s time. What is the VERY BEST possible outcome for China? Simple, any outcome that debiltates BOTH the US and Russia (in a nuclear sene) EVEN SLIGHTLY, leaving THEM as the LAST GREAT Super-Power on the planet, by default. REST asured, any hint of actual weakness on the part US AND The Russians would be pounced upon by the Chinese…IMMEDIATELY.

        The US is, in fact, the Breadbasket of the World…China KNOWS this…Russia is the LARGET nation-state in existence, geographically, whose land-mass alone gives it a wealth of resources UNMATCHED by anyone, anywhere AND IT also abutts CHINA (all but..Mongolia is a ‘fart in the wind’ where China is concerned) What would YOU do if the opportunity presented itself? Bear in mind NOTHING in Chinese culture holds life to be ‘Sacred’…nothing at all, thier past history’s with repect to a vast number of evident circumstances shows THAT all too clearly…

        At the LAST, China IS the danger..to both US and the Russian’s..to the World in fact…why else would China be building ‘Ghost City’s’…not in China…but in AFRICA?! THAT is on-going RIGHT now…next step DENUDE the African Continet of Life altogether…for the Chinese that is – likely – a real possibility. The DREAM of Empire IS STRONG in those…it has NEVER subsided… not one bit.

        Interestingly, Edgar Cayce, some 50 years ago is reputed to have said that, the Nations of the North (Star) would at the last band together to STOP a terrible aggessor from the ‘East’…As I’ve said before, there ARE Mystery’s in the World…sometimes it almost SEEMS as if there IS an underlying ‘thread’ to it all, that we glimpse ‘as though a glass, darkly’….or that some do.

        9 Days Friend…then ‘Vaminos!’

        JOG

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    45. 3n3my of th3 Stat3 says:

      Biden: Gun Control Push Coming This Fall
      May 30th, 2013

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rgBGlis7Pys#at=76

      * Stock Up Arm Up Prepare Now while you still can … things are going to get Ugly at the End of August 2013 .

      * EXPECT ANOTHER LARGE ZOG FEDGOV FALSE-FAG ATTACK to Justify the ZOG’S DENIAL OF THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS and Seizure of Guns during the Summer of 2013 .

      N.O. ;0p

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    46. 3n3my of th3 Stat3 says:

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 5

    47. CrabbeNebulae says:

      I’ll be canning sweet corn tomorrow. Got almost 100# from a neighbor, enough to put up three batches (21 quarts). My tomatoes are loaded and starting to ripen on the vine. Hope to put up lots of tomatoes this year along with some tomato/vegetable juice. When the electricity is off freezers stop freezing.
      Start growing your own food. Pick up canning supplies now before they are outlawed.

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      • lol…Around here, the saying about corn goes “knee high by the fourth of July”. My tomatoes are only two feet tall. I’m thinking you live quite a bit south of me. However, I just finished making 16 jars of strawberry jam. That will last us about 3 years. Most of our food preps are home canned. They don’t rust and you know whatcha got.

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        • HisArmsWide says:

          If you’r enot using Tattler lids JRS you may want to give a look. Nothing to rust and they’re reusable many many times. We’ll probably be dead of old age before we use them up. If you can every year the cost pays for itself after awhile and if we end up in a situation where we can’t get lids well trying to stockpile them to last forever can be difficult.

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      • JayJay says:

        STOP THAT RIGHT NOW, crabbe…
        You are telling a group, at least here, that had their heat on last week!! :-(

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        • Mountain Trekker says:

          JayJay, what do you mean last week, my heats on as I make this comment. So when y’all bug out, be sure to head for the Mountains life is easy here. Trekker Out. Live Free Or Die!

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        • CrabbeNebulae says:

          I live somewhere in the rural deep south. We had a fairly cool spring which was nice but I’ve had my A/C running full blast for the last three weeks. Don’t need it at night but the days are in the 90′s.

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    48. Watchman says:

      @BI,JOG: Boy it is getting harder every day to keep up with what’s going on in the world. You see the U. S. sending more troop all over, you see Russia now doing the same, as well with China (now going to play in Rempac games). To me this says a lot and that is PRESTAGING and/or PREPOSITIONING for the next big one WW3. It’s here people believe it or not, it’s here.

      Mother Nature is going have a say in all this too, and shake the eye teeth out of all of us. The PRESSURE VALVE IS ABOUT TO BLOW!

      Keep the FAITH
      Watchman

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    49. 3n3my of th3 Stat3 says:

      President Foreshadows New Internet Surveillance Proposal During National Security Speech VIOLATING YOUR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS

      FUCK THE CIA PUPPET KENYAN BARRY SOETORO !!!

      HE IS A ILLEGAL UNCONSTITUTIONAL ‘ FALSE PRESIDENT !’

      ALL HIS LAWS DON’T MEAN SHEEIT AND ARE CONSTITUTIONALLY ILLEGAL !!!

      FUCK JOE BIDEN A RICH PRICK BILDERBOYBUGGER GLOBALIST ZIONIST BITCH AND TRAITOR WANTS YOUR GUNS , VIOLATING YOUR SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS !!!

      IT WILL SOON BE TIME TO ‘ TAKE A STAND , FIGHT FOR YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS WITH LETHAL FORCE ‘ … PREPARE !!!

      http://www.activistpost.com/2013/05/president-foreshadows-new-internet.html

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    50. Prepping Preacher says:

      all common sense – which is already a rarity in our society…. if you don’t own a particular caliber weapon, buy the ammo anyway – someone else will need it one day… don’t like sardines, stock up on them anyway – others love them…

      my thanks to Mac & Selco once again

      pray for the best while prepping for the worst

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    51. Frank Thoughts says:

      The most important thing to keep in mind is this: there is no money to be made by corporations by letting the supply network go down. Using Yugoslavia as an example is a mistake: it was part of an economic system that never worked well and completely fell apart when it lost its patron, the Soviet Union.

      Unfortunately, while the Internet is a great connector, it is filled with people trying to over-play the dangers.

      Remember how North Korea was ready for WWIII? Now, they have gone quiet: it is all a play and we are all being played.

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    52. Watchman says:

      Don’t forget to put back lots of POPCORN. It is considered one of the best survival foods by many.

      Keep the FAITH
      Watchman

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      • HisArmsWide says:

        And ground up there’s no finer cornbread in the world.

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      • Commie hater says:

        Corn, short in lysine. Eat the coon that eats the corn.

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        • james says:

          The secret to getting full nutrition from corn is the nixtamalization process, as first peoples in the Americas have known for millenia. It is fairly simple to do, and wood ash/lye is the necessary ingredient. Without this process, you will suffer crippling nutritional deficiencies, like pellegra, if you depend on corn as a major food source.

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          • kevin says:

            Pasted-

            “Consider maize (corn), towering grain of the Americas, a native food that would ultimately feed billions all over the world. True, this golden kernal has a wonderful taste, fantastic yields, and incredible adaptability to extreme climates. But, as food historian Sophie Coe has explained, what really made it a superior item was nixtamalization, a process developed by women somewhere in Central American, long before the time of Jesus. To make nixtamal, women soaked their corn grains in water with lime or wood ashes from their cooking fires, loosening the tough hulls that were characteristic of ancient strains of corn. The soaking made the kernels easier to grind into meal for tortillas. Or the cook might boil the nixtamal into a puffy ricelike dish called hominy (also called posole in the Southwest). Though these techniques made for good eating, much of the brilliance lay in the nutritional chemistry: alkali from the wood ashes enhanced the protein of the maize”.

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    53. BigB says:

      Last week I warned everyone to watch the U.S. Stock Markets. Again just like last week I will tell you that no I don’t think the sky is falling but cannot stress enough that the situation is growng worse and rapidly.

      This last week we have seen some 100 plus point swings on the DOW and a couple of times we went with swings in excess of 200 points. The government has been trying to control the market with fiat monies flooding being pumped in. This is a short term solution and a long term problem.

      “The Nikkei stock average tumbled more than 5 percent to a five-week low yesterday, dragged lower by the dollar’s decline to its lowest since May 10 against the yen, which weighed on exporters.” This is ver problematic in that the money fleeing the Nikkei did not come to the U.S. as is the norm. It instead went to the European markets.

      This shows that Asian investors in general are seeing that the Euro is gaining strength against the Dollar. Or is it seeing that the U.S. gvernment is in trouble over all? As always it is very hard to see what or maybe understand is the better word where the Asian mind is coming from.

      I will say that based on my tracking since 2006 we are definitly in a period that is resembling 2008. There have been put in place since then many stop gap measures that are supposed to prevent another 2008 which makes all of what I am seeing even more alarming.

      Most of you know I am not a PM man in general but it may be time to re-look at your portfolios. Have a great weekend everyone.

      BigB

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    54. Morning “Be Informed”

      whats your take on this “science”?

      Seafloor ‘Breathing’ Could Help Forecast Big Earthquakes

      Tracking tiny earthquakes with advanced technology could help scientists forecast the next devastating temblor, one expert says.

      By deploying data-collecting ocean-bottom seismometers, marine researchers can keep track of small earthquakes created by the flow of the tides in the deep ocean. These small earthquakes are triggered by the expansion and contraction of the seafloor with the tides, which happens on a daily basis.

      “The seafloor is almost breathing with the tides,” said Maya Tolstoy, a geophysicist at Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory here in New York.Tolstoy thinks these “tidal-triggering” events, if tracked effectively, could help marine researchers get a better sense of when the next big, tsunami-causing earthquake could happen. She discussed this possibility at an event held in New York two weeks ago.

      Link to story below once moderated

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      • JustOneGuy says:

        Howdy VRF!

        JOG here…WHAT a marvelous idea! “Nosarc” here, believe me! Many, MANY problems in the physical World are simply ‘intractable’ inasmich as we simply DO NOT have a enough data to even BEGIN to model the problem at hand. THIS WOULD provide a very good start to remedying our current lack thereof, seismically, that is…I ASSURE you. Perhaps you may have noted some several days ago that I mentioned the case of Yellowstone sevral years back, when FIRST we installed ‘ultra-high precision’ GPS units all over that locale? Initally, the data SEEEMED to suggest that Yellowstone was getting READY to erupt!…until we watched the data for a while and SAW that it goes through a cycle of what almost appears to be ‘breathing’…in and out, over and again. THAT is the PROBLEM…there IS much we do not KNOW as FACT…this is the only place where !MOAR! is GOOD! IF we had s broadly distributed net of that sort…around every continent..it wold only be a matter of years before we could FULLY model all interior processes to High Precision….Alas, at the rate that things are deteriorating – Globally – I suspect that we’ll never see such completed….a pity. :(

        Money, Fame, Power…Meh! Who cares?!…Knowledge, THAT’S another thing altogether…Yes, IF it were the CASE that something ‘BAD’ wanted to ‘tempt me’…THAT would be my ‘weak point’…as you have probably already guessed…don’t we ALL have one? ;)

        JOG

        PS: THAT, is a GOOD question Friend…I’m sure that BI will be by later to give you his expert slant thereon…thanks for the Info! Much Obliged Sir! Adios!

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    55. The Republic Strikes Back says:

      2011.. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WEBSITE STATS … In 2011 over 37,000 WHITE WOMEN were raped by Black men in this country.. IN the same year, less than 10 BLACK WOMEN were raped by white men… LOOK IT UP … Then ask yourself how many of these women REALLY could have used a gun to defend themselves against these baboons…

      New York and any anti 2nd state has really got it wrong, women should be fighting to bear arms harder and louder than any man

      Ladies..time to wake the hell up!..you gonna let some politician seal your fate, or put you at risk?

      if you think this is bad now? just wait when the S really hits the fan

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    56. Obama and Bloomy, should stop sending each other poison letters and mean notes. So they can blame someone else. Yup that’s how this works, in America today, make up a story to get your way.

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    57. Anonymous says:

      The US won’t be like the Balkans after the collapse. Maybe 3% of the population will have food. There won’t be any point bartering with people when you don’t have food to trade. It won’t be safe to barter either. Even if someone has food, they might be running out and looking to kill you for your food. I won’t be doing any bartering after the collapse. I’m gonna hunker down in my house and not go out except to dump poo.

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      • Kevin2 says:

        VRF

        The rule I was taught was do not use a gun unless you absolutely have to. If its a “warning” by simple logic you don’t have to use it at that specific time. Even if they’re unarmed and they advance you can use (and common sense dictates) that gun to retain control of that weapon in Delaware and I assume Florida (remains to be seen). If they’re armed obviously prudence dictates a more rapid response.

        Warning shots are for the movies.

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    58. The Republic Strikes Back says:

      Obammy will be signing a declaration of war against the American people on June 7th..( yes folks that’s what this is don’t fool yourselfs)

      no matter if it goes all the way or not..he has still cemented his stand on our freedoms and rights as far as im concerned

      UN Treaties mean nothing to me, I am not signatory to it, and it does not supersede my 2nd amendment RIGHT

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    59. Be informed says:

      @ VRF. This is mostly exactly where, the plate boundaries, that I use to help forecast future earthquakes. Most areas of the sea floor spreading are where the pressure points build and show distant major earthquakes in the future. I also use other plate boundaries that have to do with convergence (thrust) and side to side (strike slip), anywhere there is one plate interacting with the other. I don’t chart micro quakes for two reasons; first getting previous data and because the larger precursor quakes indicate the plate is ready to more in the far away different section of the planet.

      I have yet to read about what you sent because Mac of course has to make sure the link is safe. There was another quake today on the Central Mid Atlantic Ridge that again aims at South America and Central American. This is 26 out of 29 times this has happened since about 7 weeks ago. I know this is becoming tiresome talking about the danger of Mexico to Chile, but something by now should have happened. That is very bad news. Remember how I kept warning of something huge coming, and then boom the largest deep focus eaethquake ever recorded.

      I cannot emphanize enough the danger that goes from Sooth America to Mexico. It could be just another deep focus super quake along the Nazca/South American plate that won’t hurt anyone because of the depth of 350 miles+. I think though it will be shallow and absolutely wallop someone. My highest bets would be in descending order from highest to lowest would be:

      Mexico, Guadalajara to Acapulco
      Columbia to Ecuador, Bucaramnada to Guayaquil
      Peru, Lima to La Paz
      Chile, Antofagasta to Santiago
      Bolivia to N. Argentina, Sucre to Cordoba
      Costa Rica to El Salvador, San Jose to San Salvador
      Dominician Republic to east of Trinidad and Tobago

      This would be the best chance, as other areas still remain dangerous also. I have had a chnace to really narrow it down because of all the precursor quakes that have happened the past almost 2 months. I would say that there is a 50-50 chance of something over 7.8. I would say there is a 30% chance of something over a 8.5 and about a 20% chance of something over a 9 pointer. I would also say that there is a 1 in 10 chance of a super quake of mid 9 range. It is that critical down there. The time frame would be by mid June at about 70%.

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    60. Be informed says:

      @ VRF. Isn’t that just atypical of all these government based suckers, forecasting and not predicting. They are not trying to give people a window of warning of a couple of weeks, they are talking about years or decades. This is why I am so desperate to predict earthquakes and shove their bureaucracy all the way up their sticken asses. They know when these earthquakes are going to strike. IF I can predict them over and over again, so can they with the resources of super computer after super computer.

      There is a reason people with intelligence and can think for themselves hate the lying and deceptive of the world governments. These scientists working for this might not even know whom they are working for already knows much, much more than they are telling them. These poor individuals might have the best interest of people and saving their lives, yet never get even a fraction of what the government actually knows. Everything is true in this article, and that is what is sad about it, this caqn help save people. Yet, the reeking government of BO and other world government surpress the truth, especially to legitimate scientists that want to do the right course of action.

      I usually don’t use foul language in respect to Mac’s site and those that don’t like to see bar talk on this site. BUT, to those governments that hide the truth about disasters that can help forewarm people, fuck you. You government smoothed fucked piss sucking cock riding son of a bitches, you are all going to get yours. You hide and deceive everyone about the economy, natural disaster forecasting, self defense issues, Constitution and freedom warping people’s rights, and everyhting else. For that government slong riders, fuck you, fuck you very much.

      Sorry, the way the government screws all of us and not only fails to tell the truth, but purposely tells us utter lies to throw us off the truth, they deserve such language. I will continue to refine my earthquake predictions until maybe one day I or someone else can present this as an undisputed way of forecasting quakes to give people a fews days warning rather than an entire generation to wait for a danger to actually hit.

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    61. Barn Cat says:

      The Balkans in the 90s won’t be that similar to America in the next decade. There were a lot more farmers than. When the collapse comes to America maybe 3% of the population will have food. I’m not going to risk bartering with anybody. Somebody could be about to run out of food and be looking to kill you for yours. Or looking to kill you because they want your wife or daughter. I live in a small Wisconsin town. I’m gonna hunker down and not even go outside except to dump poo at 3 AM.

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    62. Satori says:

      *****MERS UPDATE*****

      apparently 3 more deaths have occurred (total 30)
      and Saudi Arabia is taking a lot of criticism
      for being less than honest and transparent

      Saudi Arabia: Three more MERS deaths and a political stink

      http://crofsblogs.typepad.com/h5n1/2013/05/saudi-arabia-three-more-mers-deaths-and-a-political-stink.html

      MERS virus may be ‘threat to entire world’

      http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/health&id=9120526

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    63. The Universe says:

      I notice Selco’s article didn’t mention silver or gold.

      Funny, that… :)

      Seeds, seeds, seeds…

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    64. TookIt says:

      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click to read it.

      Poorly-rated. What do You Think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 17

      • Next time, get your girl to wear a moo-moo and use a Hoveround. She can smuggle out whole commode disguised as her belly and you won’t have to work up a sweat carrying it out. Added plus is the stink will keep people from getting too close. Fill the bowl with the feminine pad dispenser and “voila” it’s a two-fer. If you can’t sell it, smash it up with a hammer and throw the sharp pieces at your neighbors when they piss you off. Use the pads to bandage your wounds when they throw them back.

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      • Barn Cat says:

        You’re the only one who’s greedy. The stores are trying to make an honest living.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

      • You are a hoot!

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

      • Commie hater says:

        Tool, now that’s funny.

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      • Them Guys says:

        Tooki, better be carefull! Oprah got busted transporting 250-lbs of CRACK under the Back of Her Dress at O’Hare airport last year.

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    65. Watchman says:

      I’m betting we’d have a lot better luck if each of us looked to our own egos and put them in check. Every rift can be traced to one thing: Ego. Every ad hominem attack, every demonization, everything negative about everyone in the ‘patriot’ movement with very few exceptions. I’m not referring to facts or public records about individuals, either. I regularly see a tactic used called projection in this movement: If I can make you look bad, I’ll look that much better. Especially when supported by a Transactional Analysis game called, “Now I Got You, Son of a Bitch!”We better pull our collective heads out of our ass’ and get on board with the common goal we all agree on: Restoration of Constitutional government. We must move in the same direction or we will lose, and then we can kiss freedom goodbye for generations. We must satisfy the ‘commander’s intent’, which in this case, our “commander” is the Constitution. Our opinions of what is ‘better’ are only important within our own reach, because we cannot control that which is outside of our own AO. So, you folks who are out front in the ‘blogosphere’, take notice people tend to be influenced by what you put out there, because you’re either gifted enough or disciplined enough to put coherent thoughts out to the citizenry. That puts you in a defacto position of influence, if not leadership. And if you’re the type of person that says, “I’m no leader”, fine. But then you owe it to the ‘patriot movement’ to at least support those you know who are leaders, whether out in the blogosphere or on the ground in the AO’s. That way we are at least providing support to each other during the ‘soft war’ for restoration. Those of us on the ground should being doing everything we can to ensure we train our ‘merry little bands’ under the principles the US was founded upon, namely, the Judeo-Christian ethic, which encompasses sociological, economic, and military (or paramilitary) activity. No, that doesn’t mean each person is required or even encouraged to be a ‘Christian’. What that means is that we aspire to higher principles than OPFOR by adhering to the same principles the Founders did, which was demonstrably Judeo-Christian. That also means there are, in fact, things we will not do or tolerate. We do not become that which we oppose. If we achieve that, then there is a chance, once it starts, that we have a chance to survive. Remember, Lenin said, “A small organized minority will defeat a large unorganized majority every time.” (Paraphrased) That maxim has been used vigorously against free Americans for many decades now. We’re seeing the results of that in tactics used against us right now with the ever-increasing speed with which our culture is being destroyed socially, economically and militarily. We also NEED leaders. In every AO. They surface from time to time. We need them in the blogosphere, too. We need the public faces and the anonymous troop leaders. Leadership, effective leadership, the muddy boots kind, is what gets things done. We also need people who know they’re not leaders, but who are willing to support and follow those leaders so long as they subscribe to Constitutional principles and do not fall into cult-like mind sets. That means the followers must be extremely discerning. How was it Reagan put it? “Trust, but verify. “And while I’m at it, knock off the disparagement of others when they have different perspectives or don’t agree with your particular way of engaging in the soft war or training. The endless debates rising from ‘mine is better than yours’ get old quickly and turns people away. We don’t have to have ‘rent fabrics’. It’s really all up to us.

      Keep the FAITH
      Watchman

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    66. Be informed says:

      @ OutWest. Those whom enslave end up being enslaved themselves unless they are at the very highest point of the pyramid. It is incredible that throughout history it has been proven again and again that there is no loyalty in a tyrannical government anywhere. Those just have to ask about Mideast dictatorships about this one. These ass kissing government employees, even the ones way up, work their best to deceive the people and yet their very lives are deception from a very tiny group of elitists that string them along like puppets. Even those at the very top are too stupid and power hungry to realize that at the best opportunity, when it presents itself, their butts are just as expendable as those lower than they are.

      Yes, they will get theirs. It may come after death when their spirits filled full of darkness will be drawn towards that darkness as like energy attracts like energy. I am truly not singling out the U.S. government by any means as corrupt, probably all of them are as corrupt or more so. Yes, the 1% that prepare and see beyond the walls of lies and prefabricated rhetoric meant to throw people off the truth are the targets. Anyone that just doesn’t bob their head up and down like a lizard looking at themselves in the mirror and conform and allow the government to do their thinking for them, is most certainly a big fat target. I guess we all have big fat bull’s eyes on us, those that have the “nerve” to think on our very own. Wouldn’t have it any other way.

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    67. RICH99 says:

      I am strongly teetering on believing that there will NOT be a collapse ….at least not for quite some time at which point and time in my life …..I WON’T CARE!!! I’m 44 now so I won’t be in any condition to fight and to do what …fight to live another 5-10 years of hardship….naaa!!!
      I am pretty much done with economic collapse crap and have wasted 5 years of my life on this

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    68. anonymous6.8 says:

      Word: unprepared, unattached women have voted to be “comfort girls” for the duration of SHTF. Unless they are general surgeons, competitive 3-gun winners, or have amazing build it – fix it skills. Prepare or your survival will depend upon your bordello skills.

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      • Kevin2 says:

        That is sad and true if things get bad enough. My father spent WWII in England and according to him the prostitutes were abundant at Piccadilly Circus and very often were married to English soldiers, sailors and airmen that were not only away for a long time but these women did not have enough money to get buy. They were not drunks but typically normal people. If it was like that in England that wasn’t that bad compared to more war torn areas I think the prediction is quite probable.

        Civility starts with a full stomach.

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      • Kevin2 says:

        Poverty brings out the worst of human nature. Many Americans have felt morally superior to others around the globe not understanding that moral behavior is often a luxury of the comparatively wealthy.

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    69. Joe99 says:

      Best thing to barter is ammo. SHTF happens everyone will want it.
      Learn how to make a rocket stove. Buy the parts NOW. They don’t cost much
      I live in the mountains and you can bet we WILL have road blocks with rednecks with itchy trigger fingers manning them. You city boys show up you either leave or get buried. On a side note there are plenty of idiots here that don’t prep. Don’t come to the mountains because we will be starving and won’t have any food for your sorry ass.

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      • 10mm says:

        City boys will NOT be going to mountains.They might as well knock themselves off and save the trip.They are urbanites,thats all they know.They will die in the citys/suburbs.

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    70. kyrocketscientist says:

      I gleen through many, so called ‘survival web sites’ daily. Maybe each week I will learn one thing I didn’t realize. Going to Selco’s web site has taught me more in 20 minutes, than the other web sites have taught me in years.
      It is so much better learning from the man with first hand knowledge, than someone predicting what is going to happen.
      Don’t kid yourself. Anyone that thinks they have everything they need to survive, has their head up their hinny. They will have to barter. Learn how to do it now…John

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      • What do you do in Ky, kyrocketscientist? My wife and I are wanting to move to Sevierville, TN and were hoping the job market will be better there than in Miami… Too many people not enough jobs.

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