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    The Zombie Apocalypse


    May 7th, 2011
    Prepping to Survive
    Comments (97)
    Read by 2,917 people

    The following article has been generously contributed for your reading pleasure by Prepping to Survive.


    What will be the most pressing issue for people after the end of the world as we know it (TEOTWAWKI)? The search for food to ease the hunger pangs in your stomach? Finding shelter for warmth and dryness during a bitterly cold night? The relentless pursuit of clean, potable water to rehydrate yourself?

    For people living in densely populated areas of the country, such as the suburbs of Chicago, Dallas, Seattle, or most any of the cities in the NorthEastern U.S., the most immediate threat to their very existence will not come from lack of supplies. It will not come from diseases or waterborne illnesses like dysentery or cholera . It won’t even come from starvation.

    The most frightening threat will come from other people.

    Societal Breakdown

    TEOTWAWKI will find many people taking extreme measures that they never thought themselves capable just to stay alive or put food in the mouths of their crying children. Some of these will be typical people like our neighbors who, when thrust unprepared into this new reality, turn to violence to satisfy their needs.

    Others maybe criminals currently teetering on the edge of civility. They are opportunists who see societal breakdown as a chance to live without fear of retribution from the criminal justice system. With nothing to keep them in check, they’ll roam the countryside, taking what they wish while leaving a wide path of destruction in their wake.

    Still others may be mentally ill. People who, until TEOTWAWKI, were successfully treating their illnesses with medication and therapy. The sudden lack of medicine combined with the harsh new world in which they find themselves may cause them to snap and behave irrationally violent.

    The Zombie Apocalypse

    In what is often referred to as the Zombie Apocalypse, violence and “survival of the fittest” will be taken to a new extreme. People will roam the nation’s cities, either alone or in gangs, committing acts of violence on a scale that is hard to comprehend.

    The government will be quickly overwhelmed and powerless to protect its people. It will be soon be up to each individual, each family, each community to defend its own.

    The term Zombies, Mutant Zombie Bikers, or the Living Dead, is frequently used to collectively refer to this group of people. They are, in essence, walking around already dead but just not aware of it yet. They have no hope. To them, it’s either take what they want and live an abundant if not horrific life, or die trying.

    An Ounce Of Prevention

    Armed with the knowledge that the most likely threat cannot be mitigated with more supplies or by better hunting and gathering, it’s not too late to prepare.

    • Boost your own supplies. Make sure that you are preparing for an uncertain future by buying additional food, medicine, clothing, and hunting and fishing supplies. Don’t just concentrate on stockpiling supplies though; make sure you have a way to continually replenish those supplies. For example, don’t just buy bottled water; invest in ways to purify water.
    • Recognize the threat. Knowing that a threat from a group of violent “zombies” exists in a post-TEOTWAWKI world helps to reduce the element of surprise and gives you a chance to prepare. Consider now what your options will be and take steps to get ready.
    • Identify friends and like-minded people. Although the notion of getting back to nature and making a go of it alone sounds appealing, your chances of successfully defending your loved ones are greatly increased when you have a community of like-minded people with which to cooperate. Subtly seek out those people now.
    • Learn to use a weapon. Whether hunting or defending yourself, familiarity with your weapon is crucial. In the excitement of the moment is no time to figure out how a weapon works. At best, you miss your shot. At worse, you injury yourself.

    The Zombie Apocalypse is an ugly and unpleasant idea to ponder. But that doesn’t make it any less real or dramatic. In fact, just the opposite is true. Because the possibility is so alarming, we must think about it and do what we can to prevent being a victim if it does happen.

    This article has been contributed by Prepping to Survive

    Click here to subscribe: Join over one million monthly readers and receive breaking news, strategies, ideas and commentary.
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    Author:
    Views: Read by 2,917 people
    Date: May 7th, 2011
    Website: http://preppingtosurvive.com

    Copyright Information: This content has been contributed to SHTFplan by a third-party or has been republished with permission from the author. Please contact the author directly for republishing information.

    97 Comments...

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    1. Bill says:

      Great article but IMO it won’t go like this.  I’d love to drop a piano on a Zombie but it won’t happen.  I’m more concerned about the Zombies in washington.  Those idiots will be hard to stop.  They aren’t even afraid now of the dark now.  They do their stupid acts in daylight and still believe we can’t see them.  What a crazy bunch of ignorant f*cks they are.
      You may enjoy the following.  Stay tuned for more violence ahead…..
      http://dailyreckoning.com/

    2. Bill says:

      Opps, to many nows.

    3. janet says:

      I would expand your list of possible zombies. There’s the alcoholics with no drink, plunged into sudden DTs; the chain smoker with no cigarettes now having nicotine fits; the drug addicts with no fix; the injured with no medical attention; the diabetics with no insulin; the shell-shocked civilians; the pampered spoiled Americans now thrust into a do-or-die scenario. Some of these people will be zombies only temporarily and can be cured of their zombiehood and returned to humanity; others, especially the drug addicts and career criminals, were zombies long before the SHTF and will have to deal with the double dose of disaster, of first coping with their zombiehood, on top of dealing with the emergency. The catch is to avoid becoming a zombie yourself.

    4. Mr. G says:

      I’d like to add a few more to the list but will stress the foremost: One has to invest their time into learning how to defend themselves and their precious supplies with little more than empty hand combat skills.
      By this I imply martial arts and ability to become fit enough to fight without firearms.
      Most martial arts schools won’t even begin teaching weapons training until after one has completed an empty hand fighting stage course.
      One’s body is the best weapon one can learn and master. Get to know it well before you learn another weapon systems.
      Some of the most practical defense-offense martial arts that come to mind are Israeli Krav Maga, Kali Silat and Russian Spetsnaz (Special Forces training) training that id actually very inexpensive but are deadly if practiced regularly.
       
       
       

    5. sanityjones says:

      The government will be quickly overwhelmed and powerless to protect its people. It will be soon be up to each individual, each family, each community to defend its own.
       
      And here lies the key to why we may be facing such darkness in the future…..We relied on the GOVERNMENT for that which we ought to have done for ourselves all along. In the not too distant past it was the communities responsibility to see to the needs of it’s underprivileged; the widows, the orphans, the indigent; we would not be in this predicament if we had been taking care of ourselves and our own all along. Did you honestly expect protection from the Nanny State?? ROFL. Don’t be so quick to give yourself a pass…. .underneath that veeeeeery thin veneer we ALL have the potential to become zombies. I am willing to bet that 90% of you do not even fully know yourselves, therefore be careful what you wish for……..very careful.

    6. Gods Creation says:

      Bill Bonner?
       
      One of the biggest concerns I have is that everyone is depending on a negative outcome when the SHTF.
      While I don’t doubt there will be some violence and lawlessness, the VAST majority of the sheep are sheep for a reason.  They are docile and harmless, and will be no matter what.  If that were not the case, they could not stand by while the criminals robbed them blind and destroyed their way of life.
      On the other side of the coin, you have the criminal element that is already here and in business.  That element of society will not get larger when the SHTF.  Nor will they last long.
      The sheep will hook up with those prepared for their mutual benefit and survival.  That is human nature.  Now, the sheep are hooked up to the government teat.  When it dries up they will find another, but they lack the courage required to do what most here believe they will.
      I believe that once the corporation destroys itself, that the people will work together and build a better society.  Perhaps one based on the Constitution and lacking a central bank cartel.  But it will only happen when they are FORCED to do so to survive.
      The government and its corporations will not be able to cover every area.  The people that survive will move away from the corruption of the cities, not seeking to steal everything you have but looking to become a part of it.  They will have their own set of skills, and whatever possessions they show up with.
      It is sad that the majority on this blog seems eager to shoot first and ask questions later.  That mentality is the problem, not the answer.
      You can count on the sheep to act based on what they represent.  Right now they represent a corporation, and are ruled by it.  They will say and do what they need to do to get by as corporate entities.
      Once the corporations are destroyed and powerless, they will again become the people they were meant to be.  Along with all of the positive energy inherent in human nature.  Lying and cheating will no longer aid their survival as is required now in the corporate world.
      Besides, most of the people here talk big, but are really just normal people who will not have the ability to kill another human being.  It takes a depraved mind to violate the laws of of God.  It is no wonder the corporate soldiers kill themselves in such high numbers.
      Those depraved minds will be greatly outnumbered once people are no longer shielded by the corporate veil and their justice is dispensed by their peers without corporate oversight.
      This is a time of positive change.  I am concerned that so many here do not want to be a part of it.  They are more focused on putting it to the next guy before they put it to them. They may end up shooting someone who could have made their life a lot better if they only believed in humanity.
      I have already left the corporation and know the joy of freedom from corporate greed and crime.  That is the world we are approaching as the corporation crumbles.
      Be a part of the joy, not the violence.  The problem is killing itself so all we have to do is survive its death.
       
       
       
       
       
       

    7. Charlie says:

      Correction. It’s a common myth that diseases like cholera always follow a disaster or will happen wherever corpses are floating around. Not so. A pathogen has to first be present in a population before it causes and epidemic. Diseases like cholera become a bigger problem in areas where it already exists at some level. For instance, Haiti, despite being one of the poorest countries in the world, never had a problem with cholera until recently, which has been demonstrated genetically to have been brought in my UN troops. Of course in a city with no water infrastructure and poor hygiene education, it took off like wildfire. Unless someone brings it into one of the cities listed in the article, it wouldn’t be a problem. Pathogens like cryptosporidia would be a bigger problem.

    8. Anonymous says:

      Watch N. Korea again.  They are almost out of food and the common people are starving on 700 calories or less per day.  Watch the Mississippi & the drought in the South here also on how it will affect the USA’s food supply.  Price of food & energy is why it will start.

    9. Let us not  forget the legions of people in this country addicted to drugs.  When their supply is cut off, or the income they need to purchase drugs is cut off,   percentage of them are going to become very angry and very desperate.
      n addition, we have created a huge population of people dependant on regular issues of social security disability, foodstamps, and other anComments…..

    10. NunJoBizness says:

      I agree with Firesteel. Gerald Celente warns about the drugged out masses. I’d have to say that rioters and looters are one of my biggest fears should things hit the fan. We have not only a HUGE needy underclass here, but also millions of illegal aliens who come from a country where law and order is almost non existent and violence is the norm.

    11. Comments…..In every country, whether there is a melt down or not, you have an violent element in society.

      Violence increases/decreases with the stress/prosperity of that civilization.  During a shtf situation, there will be an increase of violence, suicide and mass confusion (waiting for guidance from the goernment).

      Avoiding this situation, should be a part or every prepping plan. 

      Several years ago, I took myself/husband out of the city and moved to a very rural area.  We have been active in our community and work hard at building a good relationship with our neighbors.  We can count on each other should misfortune hit anyone of us.

      Politics/shtf discussions are going on all around our valley.  Everyone is worried about what may happen.  Most of us are prepping for the worst and hoping for the best.

      A lot of us have worked on plans that would be activated in a shtf emergency.  Our valley has weathered several shtf situations with climate, power outages, forest fires and economic harships.  We pull together and as a community and get through the tough times.

      What is coming is going to test us to our very soul.  And I am confident in our valleys determination to survive.

      God Bless and keep on prepping.

    12. Bloodyfellow says:

      Events take place beyond our knowledge 
      or control.  Our lives are lived for us.  We can
      only try to enslave others. But gradually, special
      perceptions are being developed.  The idea of the
      “Lords” is beginning to form in some minds. We
      should enlist them into bands of perceivers to
      tour the labyrinth during their mysterious noc-
      turnal appearances. The Lords have secret entrances, 
      and they know disguises. But they give themselves
      away in minor ways.  Too much glint of light in
      the eye.  A wrong gesture.  Too long and curious a
      glance.

      The Lords appease us with images.  They give us 
      the books, concerts, galleries, shows, cinemas. 
      Especially the cinemas.  Through art they confuse
      us and blind us to our enslavement.  Art adorns
      our prison walls, keeps us silent and diverted
      and  indifferent.

    13.  
       

      misinfotainment

      A class of media propaganda where entertainment combined with journalism developed for 24-hour television news networks is designed to instill emotional responses from viewers instead of providing facts.

    14. Hammerun says:

      First let me say; by 12/22/2012 I hope we all look like a bunch of prepping fools, seriously!! I don’t want to go through this, or anybody I know. Especially our kids and grandkids. Our kids think we’re nutts and I hope we are.
       However though, that being said we now measure food in pounds per day per person. I own more ammunition now than I have ever fired in my entire life, and I am a shooter.
      Oil, Fuels, fasteners, steel, aluminum, sheet, propane, tools, seeds, chickens, new pumps in the wells, wood and guns lots of guns.
       There is a store in Prescott, Az. That sells Mosin Nagant 91/30 Russian WW2 rifles 7.62x54r for $70.00 apiece when you buy 5 or more. You can’t even buy a .22lr for that. And the ammunition gets better, $84.92 for a single 440 rnd. spam can, $82.50 for 2 or more plus shipping. To me it was about 18.9cents a round.  7.62x54R Comm-bloc ammo, steel case, Light Ball 148 grain FMJ bullet, with LPS steel core. Make no mistake about it, this shit hits like a ton of bricks.
       It’s not  as fast as the others I have but it might be a good barter item. What do you think a bolt action rifle and 100 rounds of ammunition would be worth in that type of situation?

       

       

    15. Plain Old American says:

      Comments…..I believe that God’s Creation has a very good point. There are many folks that will work very hard to take care of themselves without becoming violent. In WW2 it was estimated that a very large percentage of the soldiers never even fired their weapons and many that did aimed over the heads of their enemies. I have been preparing for quite a while. My biggest problem is children, grandchildren and a lady friend that has pretty much convinced them that I am a little “off center” because I believe that we are facing a maelstrom that is unlike anything we have ever been witness to before. She is a government employee at a school and doesn’t seem to believe that this is no ordinary recession.

      I will feed anyone that asks as long as I have provisions to share…. I will defend my stocks with enthusiasm. Since I am a 50’s model human that has had three major surgeries this past year I doubt that I will be going hand to hand with anyone. That is why I always have a 45 within reach.

      We will only know what we have to face when the time comes. Until then all we can do is prepare, pray and warn. 

    16. Joerocker says:

      All of the comments make sense and is why we prepair.

    17. Laura m. says:

      Plain old American:  don’t share your stuff with anyone, only barter with others.  Your family, grandkids come first.  Bartering is fine with non family folks in your community.  Once you start handing out stuff, others will want stuff and may use force.  Keep preps to yourself and low key about what your doing, buying.  A man a few miles away from me was telling people to buy silver, etc. then his place was robbed.  A lesson learned.

    18. Anonymous says:

      There will be no problem with drug addicts, with no police around they will be free to grow as much weed and poppies as they want, and cook as much meth and heroin as they want since all the chemicals will be easy to obtain

    19. overtheedge says:

      “Don’t handicap your children by making their lives easy”. Robert A. Heinlein

      This was said decades ago and we never listened. Zombies are everywhere and they will always be zombies. Once SHTF, what good is an insurance saleman? Or a car saleman? or a CPA? Most people have little to no survival skills. They are untrainable. The reason? People don’t change, they just get more-so.

      In my area, there are as many bears as people. We know “Don’t feed the animals” as it habituates them. And that is exactly what this nation (and many others) have done. We have assigned an exorbitant value to the least productive members of society. We sent our youth off to become economists, lawyers and CPAs. No actual survival skills that will get them by without a functioning society with a stable economy.

      “Sheep have two speeds: grazing and stampede.” – Lt. Col. Dave Grossman

      Don’t kid yourself for a minute. Unless a person has a skill needed within the community/group, they will not be welcomed. It is far too late to begin a retraining effort once SHTF. The vast majority of people are grossly out of physical shape so they have effectively no value even as common laborers to work in the fields or gather firewood.
       
      Well meaning people convinced us to provide an extended childhood for our offspring that lasted through college. And just what did they learn? How to be a trained monkey and in the zoo, they thrive just fine within the cage of their own making. Quit feeding them and they starve. This is exactly what will happen if there are disruptions in the food distribution network. Sheep will always be sheep. Believe what you will, but history tells a different story.
       
      Me? I don’t care about the nonsense that a paradigm shift will prompt sheep to become human. It won’t happen nor will things get better for a looong time. Those who have prepped and developed the survival skills will know that Heinlein was right. Why do you think there is the commandment to bring your piece of shit son before the village for trial and probable stoning as stated in the Bible? Or do you pick and choose which verses to accept and which to reject? Produce a needed item or die. Sheep are to be fleeced and some of their youth sent to the slaughterhouse. Every April 15th and we are offering an enlistment bonus.

      Killing a person is easy. Living with it ain’t unless you can reconcile the neccessity for it. PTSD affects many soldiers because they can’t reconcile it. Pig, cow, moose, bear or person; just animals one and all. It is all about the reason for killing.

      I prefer avoidance. But the US Army trained me to solve problems. Never forget that the monied class will survive and rise again.

      “Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.” – Helen Keller

    20. There will be a lot of people without a plan to deal with societal collapse.
      Having a plan for post-collapse humanity and being able to teach people the things they need to know to live worthwhile lives – this is an area of SHTF preparedness that I put a LOT of emphasis on.
      Preppers should strive to be generalists, able to show unprepared people many basic life skills and how to work with others to build sustainable human communities.
      We also need to carry with us the lessons that collapse is teaching us so we can avoid repeat performances.

    21. EAGLEDOVE says:

      I also believe it will be the druggies and alcoholics that we will deal with first if the SHTF.
      If the alcoholics can not find any beer , wine or whiskey.., they will be going after your SCOPE or LISTERINE.
      We all or most will go back to vegetable gardens, bartering, using just cash and no cards. I really just don’t see us hitting  a very low level in a SHTF scenario. Maybe, I am not awake yet.

    22. I’ve recently read some good books on SHTF scenarios – Lucifer’s Hammer, One Second After, The Jakarta Pandemic – and it’s made me wonder whether, or not, I would resort to violence to steal food and insulin (for my daughter).  I am a Christian and I truly believe that I will allow myself to die before I do anything that would jeopardize my relationship with the Lord.  Because I could never hurt an innocent person, I know I must prepare and be prepared myself and not rely on taking from others what they have stored up.  We have to always remember that this world is only preparation for the next world.  We’re just living through the commercials and movie trailers right now .  .  .  soon we will be living the real movie, which is eternity.

      The chink in my armor, however, is my daughter.  I pray that I never, NEVER have to test my resolve if she is suffering for lack of insulin.  What a nightmare!

      Regarding God’s Creation’s comment about people on this website being so violent, I’d just like to add some insight into why people seem that way.  It’s because as law abiding citizens we sit here day after day and we see how our political leaders have screwed us, criminals get off with a handslap, banksters become rich on our poverty, trial lawyers get rich with frivolous lawsuits that we all pay for, illegal aliens having anchor babies and then sucking the system dry, etc., etc.  It’s enough to make you spitting mad and you get to the point where you say enough is enough.  People have just run out of patience.

      Just remember the Lord is ultimately in control and the good guys will win in the end.  We all may have to go through Hell on earth to get there, but the war has already been won by our Lord Jesus.  Remember the scripture, “Fear not those that can kill your body, Fear HIM that can kill your soul.”

    23. Terry says:

      I also hope the sh** does not get too deep and we just continue our downward spiral, although the pace will probably quicken considerably and the descent will probably be punctuated by a series of crises.   

      The dopers and sheeple will have much to fear from each other and themselves. Violent crime will increase dramatically, but for the most part I would not expect the criminal element to be a large, unified force. Most criminal types have contempt for authority of any kind.

      I suspect that there will be many who will wait around for “help from the authorities” to come to them until they are too far gone to do a lot for themselves (picture the Superdome many times over).

      I do expect USA to become more like (insert name of third world sh**hole) in that a nice home is defined by the security measures incorporated into it and good neighborhoods are defined by the height and strength of the fence or walls.

    24. Ken says:

      I agree with T.  We will be held accountable for actions when we die.  With that said I will defend my family if necessary.  For all the preparation I have done, prayer is the best thing we can do.

    25. For any of you that missed this, give it a read. I’ll just say ditto. Help your fellow man. The sheople will look to you. I rather believe that the police state and the USA, Inc criminals are making life really bad now. It has to improve, eventually. Take a read below if you missed it…
       
      Gods Creation Said:
      One of the biggest concerns I have is that everyone is depending on a negative outcome when the SHTF.
      While I don’t doubt there will be some violence and lawlessness, the VAST majority of the sheep are sheep for a reason.  They are docile and harmless, and will be no matter what.  If that were not the case, they could not stand by while the criminals robbed them blind and destroyed their way of life.
      On the other side of the coin, you have the criminal element that is already here and in business.  That element of society will not get larger when the SHTF.  Nor will they last long.
      The sheep will hook up with those prepared for their mutual benefit and survival.  That is human nature.  Now, the sheep are hooked up to the government teat.  When it dries up they will find another, but they lack the courage required to do what most here believe they will.
      I believe that once the corporation destroys itself, that the people will work together and build a better society.  Perhaps one based on the Constitution and lacking a central bank cartel.  But it will only happen when they are FORCED to do so to survive.
      The government and its corporations will not be able to cover every area.  The people that survive will move away from the corruption of the cities, not seeking to steal everything you have but looking to become a part of it.  They will have their own set of skills, and whatever possessions they show up with.
      It is sad that the majority on this blog seems eager to shoot first and ask questions later.  That mentality is the problem, not the answer.
      You can count on the sheep to act based on what they represent.  Right now they represent a corporation, and are ruled by it.  They will say and do what they need to do to get by as corporate entities.
      Once the corporations are destroyed and powerless, they will again become the people they were meant to be.  Along with all of the positive energy inherent in human nature.  Lying and cheating will no longer aid their survival as is required now in the corporate world.
      Besides, most of the people here talk big, but are really just normal people who will not have the ability to kill another human being.  It takes a depraved mind to violate the laws of of God.  It is no wonder the corporate soldiers kill themselves in such high numbers.
      Those depraved minds will be greatly outnumbered once people are no longer shielded by the corporate veil and their justice is dispensed by their peers without corporate oversight.
      This is a time of positive change.  I am concerned that so many here do not want to be a part of it.  They are more focused on putting it to the next guy before they put it to them. They may end up shooting someone who could have made their life a lot better if they only believed in humanity.
      I have already left the corporation and know the joy of freedom from corporate greed and crime.  That is the world we are approaching as the corporation crumbles.
      Be a part of the joy, not the violence.  The problem is killing itself so all we have to do is survive its death.

    26. ZombieHorde says:

      I can assure you that the S wont hit the Fan, unless it is really some sort of huge intervention by nature. I don’t think its possible for an economic or financial collapse here in the U.S. considering the Fed has the ability to print dollars as they wish. The sheeple here won’t do anything simply because they will continue to get hand outs from Gov’t. Also your average person in the U.S. can just keep using credits cards and max them out for the time being to purchase what they want and need. Just relax everyone, everything is not as bad as many make it out to be.

    27. Gods Creation,
      EXCELLENT POST & SPOT ON!!
      I have thought the same thing many times while reading all the Rambo posts here.
      I would add that the biggest zombie I fear the most is the govt…..if I die from a crazy loon bent on stealing and looting, then I will be with God…if the govt zombies do hat I think they will…I will be in a cage and contemplating other things that are worse

    28. youcancallmeray says:

      We have just replaced “them and those” people with Zombies. It makes it eaiser to kill when we dehumanize people.
      They deserve to die.They should have been preppin.Bunch of druggies,white trash if you ask me,those people are just lookin for something to steal,they are probably illegal too.

      See how easy it is to justify.

       It’s real easy to become a Zombie. Just ask “those” 80,000 displaced Japanese people who became un-prepped in less than an hour.

      No,I don’t have the answer but killing everybody you see can’t be right.But you know that’s just they way we are.

      And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened
      That says a lot about who we are.

    29. Johntaraz says:

      SHTF is a an abreviation for an event that would only happen once in a lifetime hopefully. It implies that all normalcy is gone. Everything that entails normal life as most know it has now passed and will remain that way for quite a while.
      You can say things are getting bad.
      We are in a depression.
      We are at war.
      There are no jobs.
      People are standing in lines waiting for food.
      5 gallons of gas per ration card twice a week.
      Civil unrest, riots, shortages.
      But SHTF means things are worse than that.
      I understand this to mean; if you can live off the land like the natives once did, and take advantage of a few modern tools, you will be ahead of most.
      If you are not ready for that way of life, then better have a concrete bunker with 3 years worth of food, or a highly organized, armed and well-equiped survival community living outside a city when the SHTF.

      If your idea of the SHTF is something different, less severe, or more severe, enlighten all.
      Allmost the worst — to worst case scenario comes to mind in my experience.
      Perhaps just short of Armageddon or Nightmare scenario, TEOTWAWKI? 
      There may be zombie hordes, but they won’t last long. People have a strong survival instinct that includes cooperation and seeking out the strongest, smartest, bravest, carefulest, most well prepared, well armed, cohesive, fair, honest and hard working group they can find.
      Those will form the next local power structures and get us back out of this mess.
      The psychos, leeches, parasites, criminals, liers, haters, scoundrels, scammers, drug addicts, will fall easy prey to each other and those with discernment will never allow them into survival groups.
      My thoughts anyway, goodluck all and have courage.

    30. manos says:

      Good morning all,
      My favorite movies related to the subject:
      Zombie apocalypse,
      Shawn of the dead,
      28 days later,
      If you take a look at today’s fellow citizens, we live a zombie situation.
      -Unhappy and sad faces.
      -people walking straight ahead lost in their thoughts.
      -people talking on their own (hands free cell phones).
      -ready to suck your blood for a few bucks.
      -moreover the worst of all, as many of you pointed, the drug addicts.
      This slide we are on, will not have a happy ending.
      If you want a really good movie try to find the “outpost”. It’a about some mercenaries hired to find some WWII secret, hidden in some Nazi bunker, in eastern Europe.
       
       

    31. One category of people not mentioned: those who believe they will be “raptured” out of here and not be left behind to experience the great tribulation. What will those then do who were so counting on the pre trib event they have been erroneously taught? Receive the mark? That will be the easy thing to do for those not prepped.

      “…but those who endure to the end will be saved, and this THIS message will be shared with the whole world. Then the end will come.” Matthew 24:13,14

    32. James Woroble Jr says:

      ‘The problem is killing itself so all we have to do is survive its death.’
       
      The most profound statement ever uttered here.
       

    33. greaseman says:

      Comments…..  When we look at the possible outcomes of what is surely coming, they certainly can be from one extreme to the other.  That is what I am preparing for.  But one thing is certain in my belief. when even the most pacifist person is starving, he will resort to violence to feed himself.  history shows this again and again.  as long as a person is being fed, they can be controlled.  In a prolonged downturn in the economy, the entitlements will eventually run out.  the emergency food supplioes  doled out by the Feds, will eventually run out. Then, if you don’t go to a Fema type camp to get fed, you wuill die, unless you have provided for yourself.
             I tend to look at things and plan for the worst. History is a great teacher, and a real lesson in what can happen.  We can see remarkable passion for helping our neighbors, and brutal violence at the other extreme.  it is my opinion that we will see some of all of it. So, prep for all of it.  I wish to harm no one, but I know that in the worst case scenerio, I will be forced to protect my family and preps with violence.  I am prepared for that.  No, it won’t be easy, but neither is watching your family suffer for your own stupidity.
          Hard choices ahead.  be prepared for all extremes, and don’t be childlike in your thinking , and believe that the government will make it all ok in the end.  You are the only person you can count on, so don’t waste the chance you have now. keep prepping, and don’t stop.

    34. Dave says:

      Th concept of “criminals walking the streets attacking anyone with supplies” is overblown.
      If any group, especially a group from the “inner cities” walked into my neighborhood after some collapse, their life expectancy would be about 2 minutes.

      This won’t be about survival of the fittest, it will be about survival of those with the most food and guns since guns have turned nature’s survival of the fittest game inside out.

    35. Bloodyfellow says:

      Where to start, regarding the zombies that we all are referring to.  We all seam to have little sympathy for those who are not willing to do for themselves.  In my mind I have zero sympathy for someone who looks like a broken can of biscuit dough!  or is strung out on drugs, pills, pot, meth, alcohol or whatever.  One could go on and on about what they think about the zombie and how one is transformed in to such a thing.  I refuse to let myself go there!

      “Some of us are just a better bread…or just simply more driven them others.”  As I have stated in other threads on this site.  I’m a former Marine… what I did not tell any of you is that I was severely wounded in Iraq in March of ’07 and I do hate that word disabled!  I not telling you all this to pound my chest and I ain’t looking of any sympathy.  F*%K all that! I pushed myself hard every day for the next two years.  The first three months I could not even get out of bed or piss by myself.  I was told that I would likely never walk again and that I would never regain the sigh in my left eye.  But there was hope… the doc said although my spine was broke in five places and there was damage to the spinal cord, however it was not severed. “you have a 40% chance you will get some felling back but, you will have to go through more surgery’s”   and he started to go on….and I cut him off and I said “Doc just do your best and I’ll walk out of here ok! O… By the way, Doc can I get a different nurse cause the one I got is a real bitch with that catheter!”  

      Long story short I did recover and I go hiking in the Tennessee mountains with my girlfriend every fall.  with a 50 pound pack and we can hump 10 miles plus with ease.  We are preppers which my family has always been.  We’ve  just kicked it into overdrive in the past
      few years.

      “People have it within them to over come most anything as long as they have the will.”

      “Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude.”
      Thomas Jefferson

    36. You Left Something Out says:

      There’s a problem with your analysis.  You seem to think that even in a total break down of order people will behave rationally.  You think they’ll only harm you to get your supplies or feed their children…
       
      Look around at recent history.  The Balkans, Sudan, etc.  When SHTF, ethnic cleansing and genocide quickly follows.  You think La Raza won’t be out there killing all white people they can find in California and the Hispanic dominated South Western states?  They are a known racist Hispanic supremacy organization that has stated quite publically that they want to kill all white people.  And I’m sure the Mexican drug cartels will be happy to supply them with weapons from Mexico.  They will have automatic weapons, .50 caliber rifles, body armor, grenades, etc.  You will be out gunned and out manned.  And most people in this whole “survivalist” hobby are old anyway.  So you’ll be matching your crappy hunting rifle and bespectacled eyes against military armed swarms of Mexicans in their 20’s.  Good luck with that.
       
      You think the black panthers/nation of Islam won’t be cleansing Philadelphia, Detroit, Baltimore, and other cities of the few remaining non-blacks?  They are a known black supremacy group with the stated goal of establishing an all black nation.
       
      And you better believe there’s gonna be tens of thousands of lone wolf (and some organized) white supremacists out there killing every brown person they can find.  THAT is something you failed to mention.  These aren’t zombies, these aren’t criminals, these are hunter-killers unrestrained by organized society.
       
      THAT is something you should take into your calculations.  Because the only thing holding America together is economic and material abundance under an all powerful central government.  There is no American culture.  There is no ethnically homogeneous American people.  There is no reason for this extremely diverse group under the banner of the United States to stick together in the absence of the state.
       
      Demographics is destiny.  50 years from now there will be a Japan filled with Japanese people.  There will be a China filled with Chinese people.  Just as there was 1,000 years ago.
       
      What of the United States?  It is clear that the point of creating this multi-cultural hodgepodge of races/ethnicities in the United States, united under the base and degrading Hollywood created “American culture”, is as an experiment to determine if the New World Order can work.  The flood of Mexicans into the U.S. is clearly a precursor to the North American Union.  If the grand experiment of the New World Order fails to unite all the people of the world under a multi-cultural and ethnically/racially diverse unipolar government, there will be hell to pay.  And the largest victim will be people of European descent, who no longer have homelands to call their own…

    37. Rick Halsen says:

      @ Mr. G…….

      “I’d like to add a few more to the list but will stress the foremost: One has to invest their time into learning how to defend themselves and their precious supplies with little more than empty hand combat skills.”

      Yeah right.    Stressing foremost the martial arts, eh?  LMAO

      Real life vs dojo delusionals………………..



    38. brandon says:

      Sighted in and standing by…

      IT will happen and I feel IT will happen soon…

      Stay frosty folks…

    39. Anonymous says:

      I respect Marines.  We give them rides where ever they want to go.  They always do more with less and what I like most about them, they know how to shoot where they point.  Did I mention they know how to kick ass.

    40. Loki says:

      Comments…..My story is the same as many… I am prepared and constantly adding to the pile.  The dazed and confused stare and laugh as I spend my extra cash on gear I will need later as they add STOOOPID Stuff to  their bling things ! 

      When I have the extra, extra cash… I buy whiskey and smokes and these as well get added to my gear.

      For those with diabetic concerns, I would suggest looking into a natural remedy, stock up on lancets and strips.  A little commercial here… I am in the healthcare field and do have some diabetic products as well as many other healthcare products.

      The Zombie Apocalypse is already here.  Go to the mall, the county fair or any other place where there is a large group of people. They are the walking dead.

      Creeping Death

       George W. Bush – Creeping Death

    41. Stealth says:

      Killing a person is easy. Living with it ain’t unless you can reconcile the neccessity for it. PTSD affects many soldiers because they can’t reconcile it. Pig, cow, moose, bear or person; just animals one and all. It is all about the reason for killing.
      Well said Over but I would say there’s a lot more to it than just the killing. The smells, sights, heat, filth and constant vigilance take a toll also. The dramatic change between war and peace at home have a devastating effect too, PTSD is just hard to nail down.
      The whole idea is to PREPARE yourself for all of those possible senerios.
      Some will make it others will not, attitude is everything.

    42. Terry says:

      The criminals will not be the only ones who feel unconstrained. I think many illegals will try to self-deport as it is emphatically made known to them that they are unwelcome strangers in a strange land.

      I am a 50 something and have no illusions about going hand-to-hand with teen thugs or twenty somethings now, let alone once the rules have really changed. Even now loading groceries is beginning to feel like a team sport.

      Some entitlement-minded types already feel less constrained. Note the videos of teens walking into a convenience store and just taking what they want. If it is not happening already, the same tactic will be used to get whatever else they want. They surely think “fu** them. What are they going to do?”. 

    43. Anonymous says:

      Happy Mother’s Day Okie!

    44. loki says:

      Comments…..Going hand to hand is no problem.  Solution, don’t let them get that close. Survival of the fittest and the quickest.  2 types of people in this world, as the saying goes, and their are many answers to it. But as the phrase went during basic training, “the quick and the dead Drill Sgt. the quick and the dead !”  Know the friend and foe, establish a uniform for the firends and a perimeter, a curfew and by-laws for your AO.  Everyone has a detail and they are all equally important.  Establish leadership within the group and make sure that the entire group agrees with the leaders that are appointed.  As 15 year Army vet, I don’t want a florist running defensive OPS, no matter how much they think they have the skills and how much shiny gear they have. 

      There are many protective measures I know to establish a defensive perimeter that I cannot openly discuss, DUH ! But I will certainly train others who want to learn. 🙂

    45. GMAFB says:

      Posted recently on survivalblog.com is one that will provide some realistic information on what to expect once the SFHTF (finally hits)…check it out, and in particular the link within the post to conditions in Argentina…I’ll provide both links here for your consideration.

      http://www.survivalblog.com/2011/05/the_unrealistic_mentality_of_t.html

      http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2008/10/thoughts-on-urban-survival-2005.html

      GMAFB – Alas, predictions are tricky, especially about the future – Yogi Berra

    46. michelle says:

      Sheep, Wolves And Sheepdogs By Tom Burnett
      Adapted from ‘On Combat’  – Grossman/Christensen
      5-8-11

      Most of the people in our society are sheep. We may be in the most violent times in history but, [in America,] violence is still remarkable rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep. I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the pretty, blue robin’s egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without it’s hard blue shell. Police officers, soldiers and warriors are like that shell, and someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful. For now, though, citizens still need warriors to protect them from predators. Then there are wolves – and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy. Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it’s not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial. Then there are sheepdogs. I’m a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf. If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy and productive citizen: a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath: a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? Then you are a sheepdog. You will walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed. You have chosen the Way of the Warrior. Let me expand on the model of sheep, wolves and sheepdogs. We know that the sheep live in denial; that is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exist throughout their kids’ schools. but many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police officer in their kid’s school. Out children are [thousands] of times more likely to be seriously injured, by school violence than by school fires, but the sheep’s only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone coming to kill or harm their children is just too hard to contemplate; so they choose the path of denial. The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer he didn’t go around armed at all. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white and go “Baaa”. Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock trues desperately to hide behind the sheepdog. Sheep have two speeds. ‘Graze’ and ‘stampede’ and 98% of them are prey items for wolves. Sheepdogs are benign creatures, but they have a job. They have no choice but to do it. But a sheepdog is a funny critter. He is always sniffing around out on the perimeter, checking the breeze, hunting for things that go ‘bump’ in the night, and yearning for a righteous battle. That is, the young sheepdogs yearn for a righteous battle. The old sheepdogs are a little older and wiser, but they move to the sound of the guns when needed, right along with the young ones. Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After 9/11 most Americans said “Thank God I wasn’t on one of those planes”. The sheepdogs, the warriors, said “I wish I could have been on one of those planes. Maybe I could have made a difference”. Another Tom Burnett was on United flight 93. He made a difference. His last words over the phone were “Let’s roll.” That plane didn’t make it to it’s target. He was 38 years old and married. He, and many of his fellow passengers, were warriors. ******************************************* Do you think people like John Wayne Gacy or Ted Bundy don’t live near you? They do. There are at least thirty serial killers at large in the United States at any given time and probably many more than that. There are four million sociopaths who will kill you for driving too slow – or two fast – or for no reason at all. If they will shoot at armed police officers, sheep stand no chance. Dubya Bush is a wolf. Obama is a sheep. Find your warrior and be happy he exists.

    47. Cave Man says:

      Annnnndddddd the market is open.

    48. Bloodyfellow says:

      Stealth- 

      Killing a person is easy. Living with it ain’t unless you can reconcile the neccessity for it. PTSD affects many soldiers because they can’t reconcile it. Pig, cow, moose, bear or person; just animals one and all. It is all about the reason for killing.
      Well said Over but I would say there’s a lot more to it than just the killing. The smells, sights, heat, filth and constant vigilance take a toll also. The dramatic change between war and peace at home have a devastating effect too, PTSD is just hard to nail down.
      The whole idea is to PREPARE yourself for all of those possible senerios.
      Some will make it others will not, attitude is everything.
      T

      There is no (EASY Button) to deal with PTSD  there are scars far deeper than the flesh.   August of ’04 I was in An Najaf, Iraq on a roof top.  We had lots of contact on & off throughout the day and spent the night on the roof.  Late into the night I was looking though my NVG’s watching a dogs eating on the this… Muj who was killed the day before.  None of his Muj buddy’s can to reclaim his body so the local dog population helped themselves.  I used to have nightmares of dogs eating my face and I’ed wake up covered in sweat.  

      I found that writing helped me deal with my PTSD.

      Clouds weaken
       
      & die.
      The sun, an orange skull,
      whispers quietly, becomes an 
      island, & is gone.
      There they are
      watching
      us everything
      will be dark.
      The night changed
      eyes glowing green. 
      We were aware
      knee-deep in the fluid air
      as death moves on
      tanks in our wake.
      Everything is vague and dizzy. The skin swells and
      there is no more distinction between parts of the
      body. An enctoaching sound of threatening,
      mocking, monotonous voices. This is fear and 
      attraction of being swallowed.
      Death rips through the night
      with our blinding light.
      We are witness
      to the killing.
       

    49. Comments…..
      What modern day man calls ‘Apocalypse’. native Indians call ‘Purification’…..like I said before— let’s get this party started…push the damn ‘RESET’ button.
      We’ve learned what we let the leaders get away with; never again!!
      We should be prepared to do all that’s moral and ethical next time.

    50. Mike L says:

      @Mr. G
       
      If you are fighting with your hands, you’re dead and so is your family.  I assume you’ve never served in the military.  They teach you hand to hand combat but I was also told multiple times by multiple people if you need to use these skills you’re most likely going to die shortly.  You think you’re going to fend off 3 people with your hand to hand skills?  Right, keep dreaming and share whatever drugs you’re on with those that believe they can fight off a horde with their hands.
       
      I have a friend who fights in MMA matches in Canada (British Columbia and Alberta so far).  He’s won all his matches but said if someone hand a knife he would run, even if the guy was smaller then him.  If the guy has 20lbs on him with about the same skill level he will very likely lose the fight, the weight adds that much more to the persons advantage.  Now if its a fat bastard maybe not 😉
       
      But I can promise you it will be 5-10+ people storming your house and they won’t fight you one at a time either.
       
      I truly hope these are not your sole survival plans weapons wise.  Your poor family if it is.
       
      Wow… Scary.

    51. Odd Questioner says:

      Err, one small bit to consider about certain boogeymen… 

      The junkies:

      Take some time and actually study what happens to a person suffering narcotics withdrawal. .. it is rather eye-opening.

      It’s a 2:1 wager that the majority of junkies will be too busy curled up and puking to even walk straight, let alone rob you. Those coming off of a Meth jag will be mentally disoriented and more eager to hit the sack for a week or two than hit your stash of goods, and once they’re done sleeping, they will be too weak to do much of anything. Alcoholics will be too busy shaking from DTs (or worse) to hit the broad side of a barn, even if they had a sawed-off shotgun to do it. In all cases, a junkie in withdrawal may be desperate, but they won’t hold up long against a determined defender who is willing and able to use a firearm. Besides, they’ll all be too busy trying to crack open the nearest pharmacy, not your house. What they want sits (for the most part) in Rite-Aid/Walgreens, and not in your basement – and they all know it. 

      The only exception I can think of would be the prescription junkies, but they’ll only become a problem after the pharmacies have emptied… but only before the withdrawal symptoms begin to hit. Once the withdrawal gets in full gear, they’re going to be pretty occupied with puking for quite a few days. This will kill the majority of them in a true SHTF situation, since there won’t even be IV bags by then to prevent dehydration, let alone facilities to help with any form of biological rehab. 

      Next up, the gangstas. Okay, if you live in South Central Los Angeles,  St. Louis, or Detroit, then you’re going to have problems (…and why the hell would you be living there!?) On the other hand? If you live in Des Moines, Tampa, or Salt Lake City? I think you’re going to be quite a bit safer from such a threat. Most of the gang activity is grossly inflated for the sake of drama and ratings. The vast majority of self-identified gang members are poseurs and wannabes – they use numbers, tough-talk, and intimidation, but would run off from a real fight against an armed defender.

      Among the real gang members, the majority of those have never fired a gun before in their lives. The few who have rely on spray to do what accuracy cannot. Very, very few will have experience in knowing how to use a firearm, keeping it clean/serviceable, or how to employ actual group tactics beyond the omnipresent dash-and-grab.  

      Long story short? I’d say that 90% of the threat posed by either group are overblown, and if you present an armed defense, both groups will likely leave you be immediately, and will be content to go search for easier pickings. Criminals are after all quite lazy, and are supremely interested in not getting killed.

      Your biggest threat will come in onesie-twosie groups of the desperate small-timers, who will rely on crowbars, knives, and similar weapons to take from the defenseless.  

      As for the whole learning martial-arts thing? Heh. It makes for a great way to sharpen body and mind. OTOH, I damned sure wouldn’t rely on it to defend my family. If it truly gets to a TEOTWAWKI, *everyone* will be playing for keeps, and you can’t quite karate-chop a flying bullet away, or block a swinging machete with your bare hands like some Shaolin Monk. Good luck giving a roundhouse kick to some ambush sniper 200 yards away. :/

      Unless your last name is Norris and your first name is Chuck, don’t rely on martial arts skills, mm’kay? Use it to center your mind, and use it to keep your body limber and trim. Do not pretend that it’s some sort of magical armor or essential prep item. Hundreds of dollars and thousands of hours spent in training can be defeated in a split second… by a 15-cent .45 ACP round.

    52. Mr. G says:

      @Mike L…First off you assumed wrong. Secondly, you completely missed the point being that you got to be generally fit and have at least an idea about what to do when you are attacked and NOT near your firearms, unless you carry concealed by day and sleep with it by night. Do you carry a .308 battle rifle on your person per chance? A semi-auto pistol won’t win you a rifle fight. Enough said.
      Read some statistics about how obese Americans are. Last time I checked it stood at 30%. The heaviest lifting that they do is a hamburger, let alone an SKS rifle that weighs over 9 lbs. Getting in shape is critical for any survival. Armchair survival won’t count.
      As far as the talking about 5-10+ fully armed gang storming someone’s house, quit smoking whatever you’re smoking, we are not in Somalia or Lybia or Balkans. Hate to break it to you but you won’t survive behind that sheetrock and sinder block as 7.62×39 slugs start hitting. Better yet, for that special occasion have a frag M-67 on hand – you’ll need it.
       
       
       

    53. Anonymous says:

      Ah – forgot one more group of boogeymen: The racists.

      Okay. Yes, La Raza exists. Yes, The Brotherhood exists. Yes, Islamic extremists exist. Not so sure about the Black Panthers, considering that they pretty much went out of style sometime back in the 1970’s.

      But, here’s the deal…

      The actual hard-core La Raza types (a relative speck compared with the larger Hispanic population) will be content with trying to rule Los Angeles, San Diego, and maybe Phoenix. OTOH, they’ll all be way the hell too busy trying to secure those luxuries which we like to call food, water, shelter. Oh, and hating on Anglos will take somewhat of a back seat to fending off a rival gang for rapidly disappearing resources (especially with the sudden scarcity of potable water being a biggie in these areas…)

      You can only steal so much before it runs out. By then, the gasoline will be pretty much gone (as will the means to pump any out of underground tanks), as will any form of reliable all-terrain transportation. I’m also guessing quite solidly that the outbound roads like I-5/Grapevine coming north out of LA will be choked pretty solid with abandoned/looted cars – not gonna get a Hummer past that, let alone a hydraulic-dropped 1964 Chevy. Maybe if someone can get up enough boats… but then there’s that pesky lack of gasoline/diesel, general lack of nautical skills, and if our SHTF event involves any earthquakes, LA County is toast. 

      Notice I’ve been focusing on LA, because any migrations coming up from San Diego (say, to Northern Cali, Las Vegas, etc) would have to pass through it. San Diego to LA would be about the extent of that migration, unless Mexico actually invades (not likely – Mexico itself would suddenly have to deal with billions in lost income from US aid, sudden governmental instability, a massive influx of illegals deciding that maybe coming home would be a better idea, and an equal-sized migration of US citizens who will ironically become illegals in Mexico).

      Phoenix, or New Mexico? Heh – water will be the crippling factor there – too many will be fighting over it, then fighting over food.

      Overall, the whole specter of La Raza will burn itself out in short order no matter how much help that the (similarly hindered) drug cartels can muster. BTW – those drug cartels will, in a SHTF situation, be unable to buy much of anything with the mountain of by then worthless paper that was once US dollars.

      So… who was next? Ah, the white supremacists/skinheads/Neo-Nazis, etc? Sorry, but most of them live up in areas where damned near everyone is white anyway. They will certainly present problems in areas local to their meeting areas/compounds, but they’re going to face a lot of teh same problems that La Raza faces. Their numbers are also quite small, and would be barely sufficient to hold small territories, without enough manpower/resources to expand too awful far beyond that.

      Oh, and the Islamic extremists? Just as relatively rare. The only concentration that I know of would be around Detroit, among the relatively large Arabic population. Again, they’re going to be too busy staying alive (especially in frickin’ Detroit!) to run around on some rampage.

      Overall, I see the diversity causing eventual (as in, decades-later) separate communities of survivors who end up trading goods with each other, much like folks did back in the 19th century.

      What I don’t see is some horde of racists (of any stripe) rampaging around the countryside, killing their avowed mortal enemies at whim or will… It would waste too much of their increasingly-rare ammunition stockpiles that can be better used for defense, hunting, etc. 

      Besides, racism is basically a luxury of those who have enough spare time to entertain the idea. I doubt that anyone would have that kind of time post-SHTF, and by the time they do, it won’t matter anyway.

    54. Odd Questioner says:

      Ah – forgot one more group of boogeymen: The racists.

      Okay. Yes, La Raza exists. Yes, The Brotherhood exists. Yes, Islamic extremists exist. Not so sure about the Black Panthers, considering that they pretty much went out of style sometime back in the 1970’s.

      But, here’s the deal…

      The actual hard-core La Raza types (a relative speck compared with the larger Hispanic population) will be content with trying to rule Los Angeles, San Diego, and maybe Phoenix. OTOH, they’ll all be way the hell too busy trying to secure those luxuries which we like to call food, water, shelter. Oh, and hating on Anglos will take somewhat of a back seat to fending off a rival gang for rapidly disappearing resources (especially with the sudden scarcity of potable water being a biggie in these areas…)

      You can only steal so much before it runs out. By then, the gasoline will be pretty much gone (as will the means to pump any out of underground tanks), as will any form of reliable all-terrain transportation. I’m also guessing quite solidly that the outbound roads like I-5/Grapevine coming north out of LA will be choked pretty solid with abandoned/looted cars – not gonna get a Hummer past that, let alone a hydraulic-dropped 1964 Chevy. Maybe if someone can get up enough boats… but then there’s that pesky lack of gasoline/diesel, general lack of nautical skills, and if our SHTF event involves any earthquakes, LA County is toast. 

      Notice I’ve been focusing on LA, because any migrations coming up from San Diego (say, to Northern Cali, Las Vegas, etc) would have to pass through it. San Diego to LA would be about the extent of that migration, unless Mexico actually invades (not likely – Mexico itself would suddenly have to deal with billions in lost income from US aid, sudden governmental instability, a massive influx of illegals deciding that maybe coming home would be a better idea, and an equal-sized migration of US citizens who will ironically become illegals in Mexico).

      Phoenix, or New Mexico? Heh – water will be the crippling factor there – too many will be fighting over it, then fighting over food.

      Overall, the whole specter of La Raza will burn itself out in short order no matter how much help that the (similarly hindered) drug cartels can muster. BTW – those drug cartels will, in a SHTF situation, be unable to buy much of anything with the mountain of by then worthless paper that was once US dollars.

      So… who was next? Ah, the white supremacists/skinheads/Neo-Nazis, etc? Sorry, but most of them live up in areas where damned near everyone is white anyway. They will certainly present problems in areas local to their meeting areas/compounds, but they’re going to face a lot of teh same problems that La Raza faces. Their numbers are also quite small, and would be barely sufficient to hold small territories, without enough manpower/resources to expand too awful far beyond that.

      Oh, and the Islamic extremists? Just as relatively rare. The only concentration that I know of would be around Detroit, among the relatively large Arabic population. Again, they’re going to be too busy staying alive (especially in frickin’ Detroit!) to run around on some rampage.

      Overall, I see the diversity causing eventual (as in, decades-later) separate communities of survivors who end up trading goods with each other, much like folks did back in the 19th century.

      What I don’t see is some horde of racists (of any stripe) rampaging around the countryside, killing their avowed mortal enemies at whim or will… It would waste too much of their increasingly-rare ammunition stockpiles that can be better used for defense, hunting, etc. 

      Besides, racism is basically a luxury of those who have enough spare time to entertain the idea. I doubt that anyone would have that kind of time post-SHTF, and by the time they do, it won’t matter anyway.

    55. Durango Kidd says:

      A lot of great comments here, OTE makes some good ones, and I respect the lifestyle that he has developed in AK; but I have to take issue with his perception that the vast majority of people are out of shape.

      Maybe, but as someone who goes to the athletic club everyday and mingles with many scores of people who are extremely fit, at every age, I have to respectfully disagree. And these people are economists, finance professionals, car salesmen, lawyers, CPA’s, retail clerks, students, waitresses, and warehouse workers. Literally every professional and blue collar sector imagineable.

      Also, I see a growing awareness and activity in living and eating locally, with more and more people being conscious of a new way of living sustainably; adapting now before it is forced upon them. I see them learning new skills and looking for knowledge in these areas.   

      Everyone should share their knowledge and skills with those that ask and encourage those that haven’t yet gotten a clue. Push these issues with your family, friends, neighbors and co-workers. The only thing worse than a little bit of ridicule, is a family member or friend that needs your assistence after the SHTF.

      Do it now. 

    56. PO'd patriot says:

      Comments….. Popcorn’s done, just busted the cap off of cold longneck, and I’ve hit play on the ‘I am Lengend’ dvd. We don’t need no stinkin zombies!

    57. PO'dpatriot says:

      Comments….. daggone spell check….”I am Legend”

    58. Anonymous says:

      @ T, Have you checked out Byetta, an insulin type medication, to see if it would work for your daughter. It does not need to be refregerated. Other then that I would raise pigs if I were you. Learn how they used to get insulin from Pigs and figure it out. What a great TEOTWAWKI job, a pig farmer.

    59. rick says:

      Yes, we suffer from a lack of imagination in this country. So we’ve given up. Running for hills wont work.

      Wake up America! It’s time… “THE REVOLUTION HAS STARTED”

      Don’t expect change when you do nothing.
      Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( http://www.revolution2.osixs.org ) “Spread the News”

    60. overtheedge says:

      I grossly simplified the PTSD combat arms soldiers have to deal with. There is the killing, but how can you describe the overall assault on your senses, your body and what was at one time a logical reasoning mind. Those who have experienced it understand, for most everyone else, the whole concept is so far out of their life experience that they have no frame of reference to tie it to. Plus I think they just don’t want to know it really exists anywhere but on TV.

      Wow Michelle. Pretty well sums it up. The existentialist in me wants to agree that we choose to be warrior, but I just felt the duty and, … uh er, the author was right. Even if it was a call to duty, I (and countless others) accepted. Still an apt description. Still damn frustrating with the sheep trying to tell me how to do my duty. Demanding I at least act like a sheep. Worse of all, I guess, it is their demand that I never speak of the wolves or even admit they exist.

      Folks, all people have a fight or flight mechanism hard-wired into their genetic code. Some fight without thought, some flee and many become frozen in terror. A precious few size up the situation, determine the best course of action and then fight like a berserker. They are the warriors; combat arms especially infantry and combat engineers. Not all service personnel are combat arms; only a very few. Most are support personnel as it take lots of beans and bullets to keep them operational in the field. Then beaucoup more back in garrison taking care of admin, planning, intelligence and maintenance.
      Just as there are only a few beat cops or swat in an entire police force.
      I mention this for those who don’t realize that there is really not many warriors among us. So just imagine how much worse it can get during a widespread panic. The warriors will do what they can, but they will be vastly outnumbered and there ain’t many stupid troopers. They will wait until the sheep get done stampeding. Then it is a mop-up operation. Most of the sheep will be real compliant. The psychology of wolves is to surrender to their lusts and they are the targets of opportunity.

      It will be a pardigm shift, but new opportunities will emerge. Commerce will return and folks need to be ready. Those who plan and prep will be able to act quickly to gain their share of the economic environment. Never forget, the sheep will be dazed, confused and want to form a committee to analyze the situation and identify possible problems, identify all the possible solutions and the report back to the group.

    61. Odd Questioner says:

      @Durango Kidd… very excellent points!

      Here around Portland, I dare to wager that there are more fit people than there are fat blobby couch-potatoes. I also find a constant stream of surprises, too. It’s all a question of actually being interested in one’s fellow person, and listening.

      For instance, nearly 25% of the people I work with bicycle to work, often from up to 8-10 miles away. Oregon may be the exception, but there are a whole lot of healthy non-flabby people living up around here (an amazing number of whom are vegetarians, etc. If the SHTF, I’d be worried about the local mushroom population depleting long before the local deer do).

      A friendly outlook towards one’s fellow humans also brings a lot of pleasant surprises.

      For instance, I personally know of a programmer whom I work with, that enjoys her weekends… blacksmithing. No, seriously, she has a no-sh*t forge in her garage (she showed it off during a recent get-together), and she can make nails, ornamental ironworks, repair, weld, you-name-it. If it ever gets to TEOTWAWKI, she will be among the absolute first people that I will be looking up if at all possible, and I’ll happily build an improvised furnace for her.

    62. Mike L says:

      @Mr. G.
       
      Regardless you’re giving really bad advise in a very general sense.  Being in shape is of the utmost importance but thinking of using your body to defend your property/family first is retarded.  I agree if you cannot run 1 mile without feeling like you’re about to die you’re in trouble.  I would argue most people here are likely lacking in the fitness end of things more then anything else (its part of prep’ing).  You said martial arts to defend your family.  That is purely idiotic.  You asked if I carry concealed at all times, yes.  Always.  Assault rifle?  No, that’s always in the car though and my pistol is to fight my way to that.  I also carry my kbar with me everywhere also, along with 2 spare magazines.  I live in a very peaceful community of 18,000 people with only 1 stolen car and 4 break-ins last year.  My rifles are put away but I have my pistol on me at all times.  If shit hits the fan and I am home my assault rifle will always be with me, no its not a .308, I am a realist and realize 20 rounds in a magazine is not enough.  I prefer 30 of either 5.56mm or 6.8mm rounds (have 3 AKs but their ammo is heavier, they’re spares for company I am expecting).  I know I will be shaky when it comes down to it.  I practice doing 50 push-ups before shooting to simulate the stress, which helps.
       
      “A semi-auto pistol won’t win you a rifle fight. Enough said.” — Mr. G
      No it won’t but your useless hands will be even worse then my pistol, least I can get their heads down to move to cover and escape.  Oh, I bet your superman in disguise and you can stop a bullet?  Break your hand on someones face and expect to die shortly there after.  Even the most seasoned mixed martial artists wear gloves because breaking your hand on someones face is so common place its dangerous, you know that right?  Right?
       
      Even with years of training, if its me, verses two others of equal stature in a EOW situation and my family is safe… I’m running like a smart man.  If its fist vs fist (no guns left, knives lost, etc), run.  Live to fight another day.  If your preps are not well enough hid in your house that you cannot afford to let a few idiots tear it apart of 20mins while you get to a weapons cache nearby then you’re poorly planned and need to re-evaluate your situation.
       
      Sadly for you, if you live in a sheet rock house I suppose.  I live in something a bit better armed.  See, I seen this all coming and had a few years to plan.  I don’t have bullet proof glass, but I limited the amount of glass I do have in my house AND I can put on steel shudders (built and stored on property).  But my exterior walls can stop a 7.62×51 round from about 100 yards, 7.62×39 (AK/SKS) at 40 yards.  I tested it out before I built it.  Also doubt most “Gangs” roaming around would be packing assault rifles, least around here it would be hunting rifles or shotguns.  Doubt the gangs from Seattle would get this far.  I also thought ahead and didn’t allow any cover between my house and it for 200 yards or so in all directions.  Well, fence posts I suppose could be cover if the person is about 6″ around.  I also have wide and deep ditches on 3 sides of my property and plans for a forth if it comes to that, right now just a lot of large rocks.
       
      I will fully agree with you most Americans are overweight but I think they’re a lost cause anyways.  I doubt many are on here and if they are, likely know its something they need to deal with.  I realize I’m not the majority and I am somewhat blessed.  Without my father pointing me to the initial collapse I would have lost a lot of money in the stock market instead of doing very well.  If it wasn’t for him I would not have as well built house as I do.  I just hope him and my mother can get here (30 miles away as the bird flies, but they’re in great shape, hike most weekends) if things go South.
       
      Taking up a martial art to center ones mind, to teach focus and to get in shape is fine.  But do not sell it as self-defense by any means.  The chance of it being 1:1 in a SHTF scenario is near null.
       
      @Durango Kidd – Good advise, but you realize you don’t see the fat lazy slobs in the gym either right?  Or even out much.  Its sad.  But its a choice they make and they get to live with it.  I am not a charity if you’re not invited to my house the door will never even open.  I have warned everyone, gotten all the jokes made about me, I don’t care.  Warned once and moved on.  I told someone I do business with quite a bit about SOME of my preps (lied, said I had 2 weeks food stored up to get the conversation started) and he was interested and stuff.  Then a few months later made a few jokes about quacks (pointed at me) prep’ing for 2012.  I smiled, said people that believe in 2012 are as dumb as those that believe in May 21, 2011 or other dates.  I said we live in a earthquake zone and I know the government is useless.  I then told that person if he showed up looking for a handout he would be walked off my property at gunpoint.  Great, more people to watch out for now.  I prefer to stay quiet now and make it sound like I got rid of everything and that it will be alright.

    63. GrayFoxGreen says:

      Interesting comments..Personally,I feel that the ZA  everyone discussing is a trifle overblown.I DO feel that the country is NOT improving,however.Rome,a prime example for my argument didn’t fall at once.In fact parts of it carried on (like the U.S.S.R.) well after the wasteful military misadventures it entered caused it to fracture. Likewise, the Roman Empire,also due to the corruption of the central government and wasteful military actions didn’t go Zombie(as defined above)but  became 2 different Empires.Some parts of the Empire still carried on quite well after the fall of ROME itself.I DO think that “putting food by”,personal protection” and having a relatively “safe place” for the G.O.D. plan are all good ideas.But as for “ZOMBIES”,you leave out the “UBER-RICH” in this country.THEY won’t allow things to get quite that awful.THEY want some form of Civilization around to party in eat fine foods,etc.And what THEY want they generally get(see George W.).We already are nearing a state of near hunger for the lower 20%+ of the people,fewer cops and firemen in poorer and “middle class” areas,etc.What I do wonder about are the FEMA camps and the 300,000 interment camp booklets printed as a rush order by the OPM.So far,the people made homeless by the recent flooding have been forced to use “church” shelters,nearby family,but NO Government Shelters.Wonder why the “REPOCRATS” are allowing that to happen?That booklet order would equate to about 1-1.5 million people(at one per family)interred.Let’s see when the other shoe drops who they go after(they have the REALLY,REALLY BIG guns AND troops trained for “civil unrest”).Hope I’m not one of those they targeted!!!
      Best to Everyone,Great Comments!!!
      GFG

    64. Here's THE Zombie! says:

      Mac (and friends), I hope these ugly bastards (zombies) don’t look like this….

      http://www.ashtoberfest.com/images/zombie.jpg

      or worse yet, this….

      http://www.dignews.com/legacy/screenshots/zombie_nation_dvd_box.jpg

      Quick, hand me that shotgun, Mac, like YESTERDAY!!!

      http://talktomejohnnie.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/zombie-attack-poster.jpeg

    65. These are all great comments; I’m glad the article has prompted such good discussion.

      I my estimation, many of the comments are right even though they may at first glance seem to be contradictory.

      There are certainly seedy elements of society that are currently held in check by law enforcement or the status quo. When TEOTWAWKI happens, those segments will use the event to do as they please. Whether these elements are looking to make victims of other people, or are simply trying to satisfy a chemical dependency, they will openly and without fear of retribution commit their acts of violence. Look at the horrors and looting that took place after Katrina. 

      There are also groups of people who immediately look to rebuild, to help one another, to do the right thing at every turn. These are the groups that rush to Alabama after the tornadoes, that organize help when a neighbor’s house burns to the ground, etc. I suspect they’ll do the same thing after TEOTWAWKI. They will try to set up coops and bartering networks, secure townships and trade routes, etc. 

      At some point, those two extremes will come into contact with one another and a clash will follow.

      But the vast majority are those in the middle. What will they do when thrust into an extreme situation? Most people these days are followers. And many of those have a sense of entitlement; a feeling that someone else owes them something. I believe that this group is the wild card in the scenario. How many will join to help make the best of the new reality? How many will gravitate toward lawlessness and fend only for themselves? And how many will simply become aimless victims? It likely depends on what is happening around them at the time.

      In the end, GMAFB’s quote from Yogi Berra holds true. “Alas, predictions are tricky, especially about the future.”

      But preppers prepare for the future; it’s what we do. And since the future is not as predictable as we’d like, we hope for the best and prepare for the worst. We stock up on beans, band-aids, and bullets. We learn skills that may be helpful in an uncertain future. And we reach out to other like-minded people with complementary skills and/or provisions. 

      Given the relative softness of the average American, mentally, physically, and emotionally, I think it’s wise to be prepared for the Zombie Apocalypse that I described in the article.

    66. Anonymous says:

      Mr. G: There are two kinds of people in this world.  Those with guns and those who come through the window.

    67. Comments…..
      We stock up on beans, band-aids, and bullets…..and Bible.

      But, don’t be like some of my friends at church that I tell often, “Don’t ask God to guide your footsteps if you ain’t gonna use your feet”!!

      Prep, prep, and prep more.

    68. mushroom says:

      so basic that it’s often totally ignored is that in order to survive you must stay alive.

      STAYING ALIVE IS JOB ONE – it’s also the most overlooked prep.
       i just got a  book on survival and this basic tenet is not even mentioned.

      familiarize yourself with diseases that occur with economic disasters, social distancing, sanitizing techniques, incubation periods the use of antibiotics and oral rehydration therapies &c…

    69. anonymous says:

      Hi all, I wanted to share a new prep supply the wife found at the grocery this week.  We have two small children and they LOVE milk. We’ve been wondering lately what we could get to cover this need in a SHTF situation and looked into powdered milk, a freezer full of milk, etc. but found nothing economically sound and that the boys would actually drink.  So this week she came home with “Hershey” brand shelf stable chocolate and white milk.  It doesn’t need to be refrigerated or mixed, tastes good (we drank all the chocolate milk, you have to test, you know 🙂 ) and the boys will drink it.  It comes in packs of 3 boxes with straws, like juicy juice boxes for $1.89.

      Just thought I’d share, because the more prepared all of you are, the less ammo I will need and the more sleep I’ll get too!

    70. SmokinOkie says:

      To paraphrase Waylon Jennings- “don’t yall think this zombie business’ done got out of hand?” Prepping is one thing, but you guys are exhausting me with the endless possibilities of what’s coming and how do we deal with it. I mean, even a hard-core lunatic like me gets tired of paranoia eventually.  
      Just suppose the collapse doesn’t happen in a way that fits ANY of your scenarios? Maybe you’ll never have to stand off a horde from your front porch. Or maybe the FEMA goons catch you off guard and haul you to the camp. Then what? The main idea of prepping is that most of the things you acquire have a practical application regardless of what goes down in your neighborhood. Does your family have the supplies and tools to carry on even if you aren’t there? Do they know how to use them? Do you have a good working relationship with trustworthy neighbors? Would they try to come and bust you out of camp? Or would they ravage your women, steal your food and say ‘that’s just one less we have to deal with?’ And what about looters, and gangs and crack-heads? This whole business about zombies is like trying to guess the lottery numbers. The possibilities are countless…
      On the other hand, maybe I should go buy more ammo, and another grain mill, and another water filter, and another manual on making explosives from goats milk…..
      Did I miss something on the first day of prepping class? Maybe it’s just a touch of burn-out, but I feel a tremendous urge to consume large quantities of adult beverages and watch hours of mind-numbing garbage on tv. Help! I’m becoming a sheeple! Don’t get me wrong- I appreciate everyone here, and, yes I did buy more ammo and another water filter this weekend (ha), but the zombie thing just pushed me over the brink. Can’t we  have a planned, orderly collapse so I don’t have to worry about all this crap?

    71. Odd Questioner says:

      @Okie: Perfectly put. 

      There are too many variables, and way the hell too many scenarios to possibly prepare for them all. The best trick is to get up a general pile of bits you know you can use, no matter what. Otherwise you end up buying cans of zombie repellent, boxes of ammunition expressly designed for killing a moose (in spite of the largest animal in your area being whitetail deer), earthquake-proofing one’s home in a place that hasn’t seen on since dinosaurs walked on the property… 

      There may come a point in time where you have to carry all that crap… then what?  

      Seriously – a basic supply of goods to last you and yours a year, maybe 18 months (the Mormons recommend two years), and enough ammunition and working weaponry to defend it for that period of time should be more than plenty.  

      Personally (as I brace for impact…) you’re better off buying this one book,* and perhaps a couple others like it. You’d be 1000% better off than you would by loading up on old military manuals and dozens of how-to books that will tell you how to kill anything that comes near your property. (don’t get me wrong, some of the more recent books actually are useful in a way, but if you don’t know how to live in a self-sufficient, rural environment, then what’s the point?)

      I just found it kind of outlandish that folks would envision hordes of human beings, almost all of various evils, storming the BOL with only the intent of rape/pillage/whatever. 

      IMHO, In a real TEOTWAWKI situation, yeah there likely will be hordes of people tromping across the countryside. OTOH, I strongly suspect that the vast majority of them will be ordinary people just trying to reach whatever the hell goal they’re trying to reach. I don’t see these humongoid packs of roving gangstas or wild-eyed junkies out to rape and pillage, nor platoons of prisoners out to exact vengeance upon the land. Sure, there will be bad elements, and even organized gangs of criminals to contend with. OTOH, 99% of the horde you’ll see pass by will be ordinary folks scared out of their wits and barely alive. 

      Long story short? Plan to *live*, eh?

      * I happen to still have that one book, albeit the 2nd edition. I guarantee you that if you buy it, and buy the tools and prep-items they recommend (even though they *never* call them as such – it’s an old-fashioned back-to-basics guide), you’ll be way better off IMHO. Hell, I grew up reading my parents’ subscription to The Mother Earth News (which you can now read online, for free!)… there’s approximately a zillion tidbits in there you will probably want to have handy.

    72. Anonymous says:

      The goat thing just got you on The List.  I just keep my goat in the freezer.

    73. SmokinOkie says:

      Odd Questioner-thanks for the link. I’ll check it out.
      Anonymous-no actual goats were harmed in the manufacture of those explosives (well except for the first test goat and we gathered up the pieces and they made excellent goat jerky-pre smoked and delicious! with just a hint of gun powder flavoring)

    74. Anonymous says:

      I’m currently stationary biking on the back of a flat bed truck in Italy with my pink jersey on.  Goat jerky gives me gas when I take my krill fish oil supplements.

    75. Anonymous says:

      Attention, whoever you are, this channel is reserved for emergency calls only.  We can fast rope down to you if you have baked wheat thins.  What kind of ammo? 

    76. SmokinOkie says:

      **Comments are for entertainment purposes only and should not be used without supervision from highly paid professionals in the respective field(s) of expertise.
      Got a pesky problem with the un-dead? Tired of their late night visits to siphon your gas, mis align your satellite dish, and steal your soul? Try new ZOM-B-GON zombie repellant! 16 oz can with easy trigger spray. $12.99 each.
      Don’t be fooled by cheap imitations. This is not the same as vampire repellant–ours has no garlic odor. All natural and biodegradable. Made from pure soybean oil and a blend of 11 herbs and spices. (yes, the Colonel was one of us!)
      Or try the family size half-gallon with pump sprayer. Don’t waste your ammo shooting the same ghouls over and over. Wipe ’em out once and for all with new ZOM-B-GON aerosol zombie repellant! 

      **No actual words were harmed in the production of this disclaimer.

      And the ammo was .22 mag and .45 mostly…

    77. Anonymous says:

      As Michael says: just beat it….


    78. MiVida Loca says:

      I have a law degree but I am under no illusions as to its worth in a SHTF situation.  No one will need a lawyer to quote the law to them or to help resolve disputes – that is what guns will be for because society will have rapidly changed – dog-eat-dog.

      I can sew, cook, can, tile, sheetrock, paint and I am not afraid to get my hands dirty.  The law degree?  That will be superflous baggage.

    79. Odd Questioner says:

      @MiVidaLoca…

      I wouldn’t be that quick to dismiss the legal training.  Eventually, civilization will have to come back to some sort of life. It would be at least somewhat helpful if there was someone around to re-construct sane (note emphasis) laws and codes of conduct. Someone who can settle (or at least mediate disputes) that don’t involve immediate flying lead can be very useful as well. 

      Sure, initially, law and order would pretty much evaporate, but eventually, communities will begin to gather again, as will the need for someone to help navigate and codify it.

      While 99.% percent of the current US Federal Code will be worse than worthless in such a situation, something sane regarding property rights, inheritance, and basic laws (e.g. against theft, murder, rape, etc) will certainly be useful.

    80. Odd Questioner says:

      PS: Okie, good catch! I was wondering who would notice the zombie repellent pitch. 🙂

    81. kenjmr says:

      Comments RE: Burned Out. Yeah, it happens. Take that break, recharge. You don’t have to carry the cares of the world every second of every day. Being a good Boy Scout is a worthy goal. Any number of things can happen that will prove the benefit of being prepared. Unfortunately, the future I see is one of unending erosion of our standard of living. Working longer, for fewer dollars, that purchase less. Global starvation due to a out of control breeding world population (nearing 8 Billion!). Challenging climatic conditions: think Okie dustbowl. Not wanting to argue causation, but I have personally viewed the rapid shrinking/melting of glaciers on three continents in just the last 2 decades. We are definitely at the “Peak Oil” point when it comes to cheap oil. When BP builds a $Billion dollar oil rig, lowers a hose 5,000 feet into the sea, drills another 3 miles + into the earths mantle to pump up the bubbling crude, and considers it a VIABLE business propositon, we’re screwed.  The American lifestlye is built on cheap energy, and it ain’t getting any cheaper. So we need to prepare by adjusting to the future reality we can see coming.

    82. Interesting. Almost to a man/woman, you all are expecting no government after the excrement hits the proverbial fan. My understanding of this financial meltdown is that it has been created, and on purpose, by the Powers-That-Be. And that they already have waiting in the wings their New World Order, with a new world money which we will all be forced to use. We won’t be survivalists dealing with zombies, we’ll be serfs.

    83. clark says:

      Serfs, yup, or worse?

      The World’s Largest Street Gang

      “”…it doesn’t matter what we say or what [the] laws are,… He’s a police officer, and if he wants to do something, he can do it.”…

      “Any illegal acts you witness by other deputies, you don’t say anything. If you’re asked, you say, `I didn’t see nothing.'”…

      Quasi-official street gangs can be found embedded in many major metropolitan police departments, often making their presence known to the public through episodes of severe off-duty violence…

      All governments, as Augustine observed, are merely criminal syndicates, distinguished from apolitical robber bands “not by the renouncing of aggression but by the attainment of impunity.” As the state’s enforcement apparatus, police are, by strict definition, a street gang invested with “authority” to establish a monopoly of coercive violence…

      …the economic and social meltdown could result in the irreversible transformation of the U.S.A. into a monolithic prison state, a development prefigured by invasive, degrading treatment of customers at airports, the proliferation of police checkpoints, and the ever-increasing surveillance of inoffensive citizens in everyday settings. Indeed, it seems likely that, unless we kill it now, the prison-industrial complex will metastasize until everyone living in America is, for all practical purposes, an inmate at the mercy of the State’s officially sanctioned prison gang.”

      http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2011/05/worlds-largest-street-gang.html

    84. MiVidaLoca says:

      Odd Questioner:  We need good attorneys and not bloodsucking amulance chasers!  Let’s start over right!  LOL!

      Electrum and Clark:  Excellent comments and, I think, right on the money.

      I’d like to see Manos’ response to all of this (hope I didn’t miss it somewhere in the myriad of posts!).  I hope he is well.  I heard that Greece is considering leaving the union and using their own currency.  His contributions to this site are always interesting and timely!

    85. Odd Questioner says:

      I’d like to hear from Manos too… 

      (and I wasn’t quite thinking “bloodsucking ambulance chaser” as much as I was thinking “patent trolls”,  the RIAA/MPAA extortion industry, etc. Basically, folks who can help bring about actual law and order, as opposed to those purely milking the system for money. 🙂 ).

      @Electrum: Excellent point! It all depends on how big the fan is, and how big the turd that strikes it. The economic thing? We’ll still have a government… more than we’ll ever want. A big enough pandemic, asteroid, natural event (e.g. Yellowstone) or major prolonged energy / food crisis?  I think that Government would devolve to local authority at best.

      In a big town, I’m not so sure the police would be sufficient or capable of doing too much (see also the Los Angeles riots, 1992. Now multiply that by at least 1000, and over a prolonged period of time…) If the SHTF in only a couple of areas, then control could be regained (via National Guard). If it hits all over, there simply won’t be enough manpower to do the job, since there wouldn’t be enough people to cover every major city, and large numbers of the cops and National Guardsmen would begin looking more towards taking care of their own families.

      In smaller towns and rural areas, things would likely remain under law and order, unless/until the city refugees start migrating, or large elements of local authority are incapacitated. The flood of people would require a community to either pull together, or it would be overrun.

    86. manos says:

      MiVidaLoca , Odd Questioner,
      Thanks for your thoughts.
      Actually the biggest problem is not leaving the euro, but surviving within Merkel’s fourth reich. Those austerity meausres are killing the poor and the middle class, and create a new bank elite, wealthier than before.
      Since Monday weird stuff are developing rapidly here.
      Tuesday early morning a father of 3 tried to take his pregnant wife to the hospital, for giving birth to his 4th child. Three illegal pakistanis or afghans, stabbed the poor man to the death in front of his wife, to take a camera.
      On Wendsday, during the nation strike, a citizen was beaten up by the police forces. Today he is in a coma without many hopes for recovery.
      Finally, early Thursday morning some right wing extremes, stabbed a pakistani illegal, as a revenge for the death of the Greek father.
      The government is afraid of a racist uprisal against illegals. But from the other side they do nothing to prevent them by entering the country. We are sick and tired from wishes and other crap.
      Be safe and take care. We hear on the news that new floods hit the Missisipi area.
       
       
       
       

    87. Odd Questioner says:

      @Manos – Angela Merkel, the Mädchen? 

      …I thought she ran Germany – what’s the Greek connection, economically?

      (just curious).

    88. anonymous says:

      Rap this #1.

    89. manos says:

      Odd Questioner,
       
      It has to do with the terms signed by the Greek “emperor” in order to receive a loan of 110 billion, on May 2010,
      This loan will be given by different institutes and institutions: The IMF, the EU, and the European Central Bank.
      Specific terms demand actions and measures to be taken in order for the deficit to be decreased, and for every installment to be deposited.
      The problem is that a deficit cannot be lowered by austerity measures, since all money (even black and laundered money) will dissapear from the actual economy, and end up to some deep government hole.
      Now, since most Greek bonds have been bought by European banksters, Mrs Merckel must ensure the interest of those German and possibly French institutes.
      And since EU states participate in the “save Greece” action, Germany has the right to overlook Greek stuff. If this right is legal or moral, now that’s another matter.
      The same thing applies to Ireland and possibly Portugal.
      To make the long story short, three sovereign states have lost control of their own actions.
      To be honest, Greek polititians stole a lot of money the last 30 years. It would be a lie to tell you that Greece owes nothing. What is a lie though, is the persuassion that Greeks’ overconsuming lead to this point. And in any case, we took loans from the Germans and the French, and we were buying their cars, their guns, their TVs, and other products. It was a win-win situation; everybody was happy.
      What is sad, is that through IMF, even you U.S. citizens participate in the resque of states all over the world. Today we heard that Egypt is asking IMF’s assistance.
      I don’t know, but i believe that globalization has more cons than pros.
       
      Best wishes for health and courage.
      Manos
       

    90. Odd Questioner says:

      Heh – I could’ve told you about sovereign states losing control to the EU decades ago when the whole idea came up.. 

      The whole idea of loaning out money to a state, getting it all back by selling the sate goods, then demanding the original loans back… damn. That’s insane.

      You are right in that the US throws a ton of money around (and not just through the IMF). It’s gotten to the point where a president (of any political stripe) likes to show off just how much his administratio- err, “we” care by doing it. Disaster relief I can understand to a point – it’s a good use for all the USAF cargo jets sitting around idle. Trade ‘loans’ (we’ll never see the money back) on the other hand? Not so much. The funny part is, Egypt is asking for IMF money, but they’re already getting $2bn USD/year (or so) in aid from the US as part of the Egypt/Israel peace settlement… which was established in the 1979. See for yourself where that goes.

      Globalization was a nice Sci-Fi idea, but there are a lot better ways of getting it done than, well, how they’re doing it now. :/

    91. MIVidaLoca says:

      Manos – great to read your posts!

      Yes, I agree, it is very sad what globalization has done to us.  Like you said, USA ia also participating in this monetary farce with the IMF and other entities, all for the downfall of people like you and me.

      Stay safe!

    92. Durango Kidd says:

      Manos: Globalization has alot more cons than pros. It is an attempt to control everyone and everything so that no one upsets the apple cart of the NWO.

      It is intended to make economic slaves of the least among US at the expense of the middle class of Europe and America, to ensure that the gangster banksters can make enormous profits, under the guise of “free trade” and the govenance of the United Nations.

      The American people with their Declaration of Independence stating that their rights are inherent to all individuals and derived from Nature’s God is all that stands between One World Government under the UN and the personal liberty that belongs to a free people.

      Globalization wants to impose an authority with rights granted by the UN Charter rather than a declaaration of liberty for all people. Most of all the American people must not allow any Amnesty of 30 million latinos who’s loyalty resides with Mexico.

      Americans must resist, with blood if necessary, any attempt to merge the USA into the Noth American Union.

    93. anonymous says:

      #1 wants to drill again.  Is he talking about oil or us?

    94. Mr D says:

      Mike L:
      First of all, I’d like to agree with Mr G about what he said regarding hand-to-hand combat. I don’t believe that increased knowledge towards survival is idiocy. It’s called a contingency plan. There are times when you may not be able to use firearms. There are also times when you may not be able to run, due to injury of the foot or leg. Regarding breaking your hand against somebody’s face: There are many techniques, such as the palm strike or elbow strike to the face that are taught to our US Marines, that are very effective. If hand to hand techniques are idiocy, why are they taught to the US, Russian, Israeli, and Chinese soldiers? Close combat techniques were proven effective in WWII. I understand that many people who are reading this forum may be old, injured, or physically unsure and therefor psychologically crippled from using their body as a potential weapon. For you, yes, it would be idiocy to try to fight hand to hand if you are unwilling to do what it takes to survive without your gun. However, it is not a bad idea to get used to using your body, however distasteful you may find it. Yes, you are correct that bare fists are a poor defense against a firearm, but an agile person or thug with a knife can close a distance of three meters before many people can unholster their sidearm. A simple front kick to stop the advancing attack could give you time to draw your weapon. What I’m trying to say is, close combat is not compartmentalized into armed, unarmed, guns knives etc. They are all tools for you to use to survive. Furthermore, in the future, if we are forced into camps or banned into groups for survival, it is a good idea for women and men to know how to defend themselves, as rape and assault will be much more common. I don’t have an unlimited supply of bullets. Do you? Fighting without firearms includes the use of improvised weapons. Basic martial art technique can give people an advantage in the use of such weapons. They are just tools for survival. Don’t be scared to get dirty.

    95. Bunker hill says:

      Soccer moms defending their young? Of all the above, this one should be feared most. Add them to the list please.

     

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