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    The Coming Paradigm Shift Will “Result in Riots, Starvation and Bloodshed”

    Mac Slavo
    October 17th, 2011
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (293)
    Read by 26,314 people

    Chris Duane founder of Don’t Tread on Me joins Kerry Lutz on the Financial Survival Network to discuss sound money, the inevitability of the coming economic collapse, and his ultimate exit strategy.

    Among other topics, Chris delves into the post-collapse world and suggests there is a strong possibility that two different Americas will come out of this:

    You are going to see, in metro areas, the absolute worst in humanity, as the people that are most dependent upon a collectivist system, whether they’re these Occupy Well Street people, or people who are loaded up with debt, they are totally unprepared for an economic reality where their paradigm does not function.

    As a result they’re going to go through the absolute most disgusting inhumanity that I think any American has ever seen as they go through this anger phase – and it’s going to result in riots, and starvation and bloodshed.

    It has to happen. You don’t have people’s life savings and people becoming desperate and not have that happen.

    The majority of our fellow citizens since the Baby Boomer generation have been spoon fed a paradigm of debt, dependence, and central control since birth. For the last seven decades we’ve known nothing but good times, with a handful of recessions mixed in. Half of the households in America receive some sort of government support in the form of food stamps, medical care, retirement distributions or other entitlements.  We have become wards of the state.

    As we’ve vehemently argued in previous commentaries, this system of entitlement and government support simply cannot be maintained over the long term. The entire country, from individuals, to local governments, to states, to the Federal government itself, is completely broke. There is no way – NO WAY – that this debt will ever be repaid at today’s dollar valuations, and much of this debt will result in flat-out default.

    Governments on all levels will be forced to implement austerity measures that include wage decreases, layoffs, and pension cuts. Prices for basic goods and services will continue to rise. As prices rise and the dollar’s value dwindles, the disbursements from government will not increase, thus people’s checks will purchase fewer and fewer goods.

    Those who are in debt and failed to prepare for a new paradigm will be left with nothing. And we know what happens when people lose everything and they have nothing left to lose – they lose it.

    The paradigm is shifting, and you can either pretend it isn’t, or get ready to live in a different world. It’s coming whether we like it or not. Kerry Lutz points out that, historically, some people got it and made the necessary adjustments, while others were left impoverished:

    It’s interesting you mention when an old paradigm dies and a new one takes its place. There are people who are still connected to the old one and can’t conceive of life without that old paradigm. I think you saw that in the Great Depression. A lot of people never recovered from it because once that hit it was the end of their lives.

    We have a choice now, to get mentally, physically, spiritually and financially prepared for what’s coming. This includes a variety of different strategies including investing in assets and skills that will survive an economic collapse, changing your environment (such as moving out of major cities), and creating new lifestyle habits that are not dependent on debt or even the monetary system as we know it today to survive (things like bartering and personal food production).

    Listen to the full interview:

    http://creditmatters.podbean.com/mf/web/z5j3jr/ChrisDuane10-13-11.mp3

    Check out Kerry Lutz’s informative guests and interviews at the Financial Survival Network

    Watch Chris Duane’s video The Ultimate Exit Strategy

    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post
        name:     email:        details

    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 26,314 people
    Date: October 17th, 2011
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

     

    293 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. Daisy says:

      That’s why I’m re-enrolling in university. I need SKILLS that are barterable! I really don’t think anyone will swap me food for my understanding of, yet inability to repair, diesel engines. Nor will my jewelry repair skills feed my kids. Really, in a barter context, I have no viable skills at this point. Hopefully I will have long enough to get my education before the whole thing goes BOOM.

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      • Something my wife is getting into in addition to her homesteading personal development is Paramedic/EMT training…. becoming an MD takes years and EMT training is 18 – 24 months… Intermediate level med skills may be of use in a number of situations, I think.

        The great thing, Daisy, is that you recognize and accept your current skill set and are actively taking steps to make changes for an economy where working in an office cube may not be all that valuable.

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        • anonymouslady says:

          I’m about halfway to getting my CPA license. I really wonder if it will be worth it. My skills all involve higher math (former calculus and advanced algebra teacher). I have given thought to Paramedics/EMT/First Responders training. But I would have to borrow money to pay for that. I’m not sure what to do.

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          • Claymation says:

            Join a local volunteer first responder organization. I belonged for years and they helped with my tuition in return for giving them some of my time for emergency calls. Plus, you get real world experience. Peace Clay

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          • Farm cat says:

            Accounting is still a necessary skill. You could work for a local government, a co-op, or some other nonprofit. The big thing is that you’re half-way through it already. And being someone who just got the certification, they could pay you less than someone with a lot of experience.

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

          • LadyHawk says:

            AL

            I’ve always been a big believer in it’s about the knowledge, skill and experience, not the credentials or certificates when it comes to SHTF situations.

            About borrowing money for EMT training- money has always been an issue for me too – so consider starting with the basics through the American Red Cross – they have a First Responder course. It’s not real expensive and covers the manual and some supplies and after testing, a card.

            It’s an introduction into the lingo, tools and supplies used in emergency response. Don’t discount what you can find on the internet with videos and manuals.

            Look at volunteering or mentoring with those in the field. I volunteered at a pet rescue and learned a lot about serious wounds, injuries and breaks needing treatment in both emergency and after care and the inventive or alternative methods used in some cases. Much of that experience is transferable to humans, especially if it becomes a SHTF situation.

            I’ve acquired the EMT manual, along with other medical books, materials and supplies and information printed from the internet.

            Daisy has me thinking about mid-wife- at least understanding the basics, getting the books and manuals and a midwife kit and how to use it would be great to include.

            This time of year – Halloween – has skeletons galore – I have several plastic one’s for reference later – would like a “medical” one with the removal body parts. Do have a microscope that doesn’t require electricity, I use to test the goats feces for worms.

            Just a thought.

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          • Claymation says:

            @ lady hawk, look on ebay for a dissecting microscope. Not sure what the cost would be though.

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          • Daisy says:

            That’s awesome, LH, that I gave you something to think about! :D I’m not going to be helping anyone with sheer brute strength or crack marksmanship, so I decided some form of healthcare was my best bet.

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          • Markus says:

            I am a CPA,..Get the EMT ! and good luck.

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          • TSGordon says:

            My ex- had but a few real workplace skills with her Jr College ‘bookkeeping’ experience. This enabled her an unbelievably fast office worker–something she thought no more interesting than sorting clothes or pairing socks. Those skills, whether recognized or not, are transferrable to many portions of business management. I suppose the leap from pure math to management practices primarily involves finding a path that enables one to trust you ability to lead.

            I’m preparing for a day when I have to be the camp cook. ((Eg: “French Chef”- hardly applies when you are forced to make pate out of squirrel meat on an open wood fire!))

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        • Claymation says:

          Mac, I was a Paramedic about 20 years ago in Buffalo NY. I am now an RN. I can tell you for a fact that a paramedic may have greater advantages than an RN in SHTF situation. Paramedics are trained to think and act fast. There assessments are direct and to the point dealing with the problem at hand. A nurse tends to do a long drawn out assessment and is use to having the exact supplies he/she needs as well as support from various departments of a hospital. We are not really trained to think very far outside of the box. If I had a gunshot wound or other life threatening traumatic injury, I would rather have a good paramedic the nurse any day. Don’t get me wrong, once stabilized I would want the nurse, but when I need my bleeding stopped, Hell yeah give me an EMT-P. Wish her luck from me! Clay

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          • Clay, thanks for the info! I will pass on your comments!

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          • Mr. Blutarsky says:

            claymation. From what I read, an EMT cannot give shots, start IV’s, etc. If you are going to the trouble of getting training I believe you need a Paramedic Degree, is this correct?

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          • Claymation says:

            Mr B. Each State is different, so check locally for better info. In New York State we have four levels of EMT, At the basic level you can be trained to give epinephrine as an injection (for severe Allergic reactions only.) You should have one of those in your prep supplies, go to your doctor and tell him that you were stung by a bee as a kid and it swelled up, you started getting hives, and had a hard time breathing until they gave you a shot in the ER or the local clinic. Most kits come with a practice pen and 2 real injections. Follow your doctors directions “EXACTLY”,she/he should go over when and how to use it in detail. At the second level you learn advance airway techniques, and how to start an IV and the proper solutions to use for a given situation. The third and fourth levels are more paramedic like. You don’t have to go through the courses sequentially, but you must take the basic course before you take any other. Join your local volunteer ambulance/fire/ first responder group locally. It may present the possibility of stocking up on some otherwise unavailable but not unlawful supplies. Plus there are grants from most states to get people trained who belong to these organizations, and you will help your community.
            Now you can buy a basic EMT or Paramedic book at amazon or the like. Everyone should have their CPR certification. Despite what you may have heard, there have been plenty of people saved with just basic CPR.
            Learning to start an IV isn’t hard, but once you have it down you must stay in practice to be a “Sure Shot.”

            Here is another piece of advice. A nice set of Nursing school Books are fairly easy and cheap to come by. Find out what day the book buy back is at your local college. Stand out front and look at the books being carried in. Most nursing programs have a 50% failure rate so there are always plenty being sold back. Offer the student 5 or 10 bucks above whatever the book store will pay and you have yourself a current set of nursing books. I paid $400 for all my books and would have been lucky to $100 back, probably less.

            Phew, sorry to make it such a long post. Peace Clay

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          • Mr. Blutarsky says:

            Thank you clay! I’ll look into it!

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          • BaileyBear says:

            I agree, I am an RN but paramedics have to react quickly all the time.

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        • Just curious, is anyone concerned that if you become certified and are signed up as a paramedic, fireman, even a person trained in CPR or Red Cross first aid, that our government may try to pull you from your families to help during a SHTF disaster? Could FEMA “require” those with specialized training to help during a Martial Law enforcement?

          Maybe my tinfoil hat is too loose. :/

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          • Claymation says:

            Good point Mom, After all if you are certified or registered with the state they could have your number.

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          • Depends on the certification I suppose RWM….if you are “publicly” certified I suspect they can and will. If you got your education from a private school with no public funding and your “certification” is their diploma – then I doubt it.

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          • Daisy says:

            Wow – I never thought of that, RWM. I would definitely “vanish” if such a thing seemed likely – my kids would be all alone without me.

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          • durango kidd says:

            RWM: Doctor Zaivago was a good movie. Did you see it?

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

          • Highlander says:

            The answer is YES! You will be and MUST follow the rules set down by whoever is in charge or get arrested. Even if the one in charge is a complete idiot. It was one of the things I refused to accept, the appointment of an outside ruler from some alphabet agency!

            Cruachan!

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          • Anonymous says:

            I don’t mean to add to anyone’s list of things to be concerned about. Doctors and nurses will especially be in demand if all hell breaks loose. I truly hope my imagination is running away with me!

            DK,
            Dr. Z is a scenario I’ve imagined. A doctor is on his/her way home from work, but they never arrive. They’re “recruited” by the authorities during their commute.

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          • I don’t mean to add to anyone’s list of concerns. When all heck ;) breaks loose, doctors and nurses will be in high demand.

            DK,
            Dr. Z is what I imagined. A doctor leaves his/her workplace and are “recruited” while commuting home. I truly hope my imagination is simply running wild!

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          • Ann says:

            I am a physician. I have been told that the military keeps a database of physicians and nurses so they can be called up quickly (drafted) in critical situations. There was one point in the first Gulf War when some government officials were contemplating drafting medical people up to age 50 because they needed more medical back up.
            If you are licensed in any of the health care professions, it is likely that Big Brother is keeping tabs on you just in case they might need some help.

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          • Ann,
            That is scary, especially depending on WHO is “in charge!”

            BTW ~ Sorry all or the double posting as Anonymous…didn’t realize my name was inserted.
            (how embarrassing!) :)

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          • sherlock187 says:

            Great question. It is very possible; however i think it’s unlikely, and here is why.

            1) CPR and first aid courses are extremely short and basic; a person can be taught CPR in 4 hours and first aid in about 2 days. EMT-B takes more time, however the skills are still quite basic , something that would take 8 weeks to train someone on (if they powered through it – 40 hours a week). It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me that FEMA would pull people who disagree with their endgoals for a training that requires so little time. Doctors and Nurses, and even Paramedics, on the other hand, require a lot of time and money to train, and I think FEMA pulling them in is a very real possibility.

            2) Unless you are nationally registered (which you only do if you want work as an EMT) then it becomes tricky to locate all those who have EMT certificates. They are handed out by state accredited programs, mind you, but they don’t require you keep an up to date address, or anything of that nature. CPR and first aid is even less regulated. (I think in my town alone there are about 5 CPR schools, population 50,000). It would be cheaper to train new people who agree with your orgs agenda than hunt down those who dont. It wouldn’t be impossible; just more work than it would be worth, in my opinion.

            great question, I hope the fear/potential of FEMA knocking on your door doesn’t discourage you from taking a very smart step to help provide for your family.

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          • RightWingMom says:
            “October 17, 2011 at 1:10 pm Just curious, is anyone concerned that if you become certified and are signed up as a paramedic, fireman, even a person trained in CPR or Red Cross first aid, that our government may try to pull you from your families to help during a SHTF disaster? Could FEMA “require” those with specialized training to help during a Martial Law enforcement?”

            PAY ATTENTION TO EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 and 11001 this should cover your the answer to your question when H.R 645 and REX 84 is activated, also here is a list of a few other E.O’s. Break it down buy priority ( control of aera) and these are your warning signs of the start of Matial Law if thats what your worried about. For those who own land and you plan to bug out too; your not safe either Pay Mind to EXECUTIVE ORDER 10999..

            Executive Orders associated with FEMA that would suspend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen:…

            EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990
            allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

            EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995
            allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

            EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997
            allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

            EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998
            allows the government to seize all means of transportation, including personal cars, trucks or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports, and waterways.

            EXECUTIVE ORDER 10999
            allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

            EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000
            allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

            EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001
            allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

            EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002
            designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

            EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003
            allows the government to take over all airports and
            aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

            EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004
            allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate
            communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be
            abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

            EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005
            allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

            EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051
            specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

            EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310
            grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

            EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049
            assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.

            EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921
            allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S.
            financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress
            cannot review the action for six months. The Federal Emergency Management Agency has broad powers in every aspect of the nation. General Frank Salzedo, chief of FEMA’s Civil Security Division stated in a 1983conference that he saw FEMA’s role as a “new frontier in the protection of individual and governmental leaders from assassination, and of civil and military installations from sabotage and/or attack, as well as prevention of dissident groups from gaining access to U.S. opinion, or a global audience in times of crisis.

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        • The Moon is a Harsh Mistress says:

          I had the same idea several years back when i left the Army. Started taking classes at the local community college at a fraction of the cost of a university; been using my GI bill and unemployment benefits to pay for full time school. People’s Republic of Kalifornia also pays full cost of tuition and i get full Pell grants from Obummers stash in DC. The result is i am almost done with a degree in welding tech, a bunch of current welding certifications including pipe and structural plate, a good working knowledge of AutoCAD, some manual machining training, and some blacksmithing. I used to feel guilty about taking government benefits and i still oppose handouts on every level. However, as long as TPTB are dumb enough to think they can buy votes with their handouts, i will take advantage to make sure that i have enough barterable skills that my family and i will not starve as long as their is any kind of economy operating. My other preps are for the possibility that there is no more economy and no more food to be had at any price.

          I hear people all the time complain about those that use the system, that take from the producers. Our current system of legalized theft does not distinguish between those who use the benefits to good effect and those who waste those benefits. I do not expect to ever see any of the money that was taken from me since the day i first started earning a paycheck. SSI will be broke long before i reach an age at which i would be eligible for it. I have extracted as much of my money from the system as i have been able to and in the process increased the chances my family will not be among the starving for lack of useful skills. Do not hesitate to use what is there for your use because of a misplaced sense of pride. Pride in never taking government handouts will not put food in your starving child’s belly when you have no useful skills in the post SHTF economy. And once starvation and disease has culled the majority of useless eaters from the population, dont expect the survivors to resume the handouts that our present government in it’s foolishness has permitted to occur.

          Ok, rant off!

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          • John Q. Public says:

            Hidden due to low comment rating. Click to read it.

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          • The Moon is a Harsh Mistress says:

            I think we have ourselves a troll here! I do not have to rationalize to myself using the money that was extracted from me and others like me against our will to educate and prepare myself for economic collapse. I illustrate what I did and why because there are lots of people out there who will not use what is available to prepare themselves out of a misplaced sense of pride. I want those people to see that their pride is misplaced and may cost them and their loved ones in the end (“Pride in never taking government handouts will not put food in your starving child’s belly when you have no useful skills in the post SHTF economy”). Hell, I would love it if everyone in this country were to follow the same course and take every kind of benefit/handout that there is. It would crash the system that much faster and maybe I might see peaceful and tranquil libertarian paradise within my lifetime! Surely it would beat some kind of hybrid theological capitalism! Try not to be a hater John Q!

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          • John Q. Public says:

            Have I got this right?

            The student, the union member, and the guy in the ghetto demonstrating on Wall Street “take advantage to make sure THEY have” the stuff THEY want—an education, a retirement pension, and food stamps—are “wasters” who should be condemned. You “take advantage to make sure that YOU have” the stuff YOU want while you await libertarian paradise and that is righteous. And I am a “troll” and “hater” because I notice you broadcasted your utterly subjective rationalization and hypocrisy.

            Go figure.

            Who then can still wonder why I put my faith in God, little faith in men, and no faith in “free market” advocates?

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        • my wife is coming up on her first mid term in paramedic school and for the same reasons as your wife Mac

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        • ScoutMotto says:

          Mac, could you perhaps do an article (Or perhaps you already have?) on useful barterable skills? Can a list be complied of basic skills that perhaps we can all get an idea what we could learn to do best in a time such as is predicted? My computer skills may be of no use if we are hit with an EMP. Same with my radio repair skills. What can we learn to do in the here and now?

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        • sherlock187 says:

          a great, underutilized resource for getting EMT training is your local community college. Not all of them offer it, but it’s worth looking into. I got my EMT training through my community college- I think the entire course with textbooks cost me about 350 dollars. That may sound like a lot of money, but often private EMT schools have a tuition of around 800-1000 dollars.

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      • Claymation says:

        Daisy, sounds like you have more skills then just midwife lets see seamstress, baker/cook, gardener and I bet there at least a dozen more I haven’t listed. My wife wants me to put a treadle sewing machine on or need list and take it off of our want list for our prepping needs. I think she would even take it for Christmas. Even if we never need it they are cool antiques. Just have to find one in my price range.

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        • caryn says:

          i have a treadle sewing machine from 1905…it needed a belt ($5.) and needles (gotta really look to find ones that will work with the machine), and before learning to use the machine it needed a real good cleaning (with kerosene) and a good oiling….i have the attachments and the bobbins for it as well..which is important. it works and seams better than any electrical modern sew.machine i have ever used and i have used many kinds and brands. a good antique treadle sew. machine in working order should run you about $65.00 -$200.00. be aware that most prices are going to reflect the condition-there are alot of machines out there, but what is hard to find is the sewing cabinet.. if shopping for one, go to a reputable sewing machine dealer or antique dealer. there are still some sewing machines of modern days that can be converted to the belt and treadle.

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      • anon says:

        Daisy and others….time to fight fire with fire…i’m a white businessman who’s tired of being a tax slave….we all know that there will be a financial meltdown….go get the loan….when the meltdown happens, you wont pay anything but they cannot take your knowledge

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        • Anon! Read that loan app carefully. The last one I read said they could come get your stuff. Of course, they could also get shot, but, thats another story.

          No, really, running up bills with no way to pay is not an honest mans way to get an education regardless of how worthless the money or how crooked the system. Two crookeds don’t make it honest.

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        • Daisy says:

          Anon, while I see your point, that’s not something I could do. It seems like stealing, to borrow money with no intention of paying it back.

          This is all moot, though, since I don’t intend to borrow any money for this endeavour. It will be tough but I will work fulltime while I’m in school to be able to get out debt-free.

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      • Kevin2 says:

        He who hath a trade hath an estate. Good call on your part.

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      • ninaorket says:

        there ya go , add another $$$80,000 in debt to your current debts… smart thinking! ;0P -pssszttt

        who’s gonna hire you once your done??? hmmmmm

        i hear they’re hiring in china in the sweat shops!

        buy a book on your new trade of choice – READ IT!!! … if you STILL want to learn a new trade , go and intern… better than college and cheaper… go to night school for the core courses needed for supervisor level jobs once you learn your new trade!

        college is for dummies and debt slaves , unless you are going for sciences or medical!!!

        stay out of debt… don’t become a DEBT SLAVE!

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        • Daisy says:

          Nina, I’m not sure if your rant is directed towards me or someone else.

          IF it is directed towards me:

          1.) I’m not taking out a loan for the education – I will work my way through.

          2.) Just reading a book will not get me the job that I want when I am finished.

          3.) Midwives are becoming the birth care provider of choice.

          4.) You can’t be an intern if you don’t take the course.

          5.) You can’t get your certification if you don’t take the course. If you are not certified, you cannot bill insurance companies, or even practice legally.

          There’s no need to be so arrogant in your reply, btw. It’s simply rude.

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          • Babycatcher55 says:

            Since getting my midwifery certification( and licensure in this state) I have been getting more and more clients without even trying! It took 25 years from teaching childbirth classes, to being a doula( which I still do) then started my formal midwifery training in 2006. I love it. Even though it was a loooong road, being prepared to help families in an out of hospital situation is something I’ve wanted to do since my first Homebirth in 1981… Kudos to you Daisy, and others for developing a skill set( or more than one) that can be used during the times we are coming up against…

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      • You don’t need a university to get the skills needed in a barter economy. For instance, you can become an apprentice to a blacksmith such as myself, learn that trade in a short period of time. Blacksmithing, while not extremely profitable today, might be a welcomed skill when the SHTF. Additionally, any skills relating to food production, storage, pickling, etc., will be valuable. Make sure however, that you purchase hybrid seed. Also, any gunsmithing skills will be very useful, as well as the making of gunpowder. I’ve taught my wife to make lye soap, herbal tinctures and medicines, make fish nets and traps, as well as other useful skills. Of course, we live in a rural area and have stocked up on everything from food, to medicines, to ammo, to guns.

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    2. Big E says:

      DDDOOOOOMMMMM!!!!!!

      But seriously my prediction is Nov. 12 at 2:45 PM. All hell breaks loose.

      Just kidding, history doesn’t happen over night. It will happen I beleive but when who knows.Getting kind of excited though. House cleaning time is coming soon.

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    3. Copout says:

      It’s sad, for some, probably alot, moving from the cities to somewhere safer, how? If your fortunate to still have employment, you need the income however small it may be. I talked to my mom who lives in Miami, mom you need to think about moving from there, its gonna get bad, son it will be bad all over. What can you say or do? I have tried and tried. It’s takes alot to pickup and move! I hope there’s some type of warning.

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      • Claymation says:

        I get ya Copout, with all the bad news these days who knows what event will light the match that starts the tinderbox on fire. I hope for yours and your moms sake there is plenty waning too!

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      • Copout the warning is here, its online, and you will see it happening. We’re not talking earth quake SHTF, but economic collapse. That will take days if not weeks and months. I think the only way it happens fast is if its advanced by foreign nationals making it so – a dramatic shift away from holding the dollar as a reserve currency coupled with key power and infrastructure “attacks” here in the country. Imagine on the day before Thanksgiving OPEC decides no dollars, and the pipeline from Canada to our refineries is destroyed plus the one in Mexico from the gulf to their refineries. BOOM….oil at $160 and climbing fast….by the following Monday SHTF. Other wise I think its very gradual…we gotta have weeks and months of ugly inflation before really ugly hyper inflation kicks in.

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        • Copout says:

          Jim: I understand all that, and agree, its never beena problems for me hiting the woods and surviving, its the other family members. Thanks for your comments.

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          • Copout I understand. I love my 2 sisters and their kids are good kids, but they won’t prep. When my father passed he had really 2 significant assets to his name – a large property in Nevada’s rural desert and a really nice golf and country club condo here in the valley. The sisters expected to sell them all and divide up the proceeds. My brother and I encouraged them to take the condo we’d take the land – in terms of today’s “dollar” value they were better off. They sold the condo and pocketed the money, and my brother and I still love the land. If SHTF they wouldn’t know how to live there, they hated visiting – I can’t imagine them living there. I’ve come to the realization they won’t make it there unless their kids get them there. I’ll pray for them, but unless its a really slow / gradual SHTF there is no way I’m going to get them there.

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          • Mike C says:

            I can relate to that Copout. My son hates camping, but at least my wife likes going to the range.

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          • MrEmAN says:

            JIM and Copout

            Same thing with my Family, the difference is that my neices and nephews come to visit and can’t wait until the next time they get to go camping or off roading at uncles’. I worry and prep a little more for them then my own siblings because its the youth who will the one rebuilding the future, not to say I haven’t prepped for the others. I have at least convinced my 2 younger siblings that should things get worse then send up the kids and not to worry the gas to get them here is paid for, just be safe and get here you know.
            Like you Copout, just remember this that the family knows deep down our prior occupations will keep them safe, which is why I would not worry to much, they will eventually come. Keep a ear to the ground things are getting closer then we think

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        • Not necessarily, it can happen virtually overnight, the effects can last for months or years, but the actual event can occur rapidly, especially as the people lose confidence in both their governments and their government sponsored fiat money substitutes.

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      • Uh, I think you’re getting it.

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    4. Gods Creation says:

      Those working for “debt currency” never had anything to begin with. Losing all that paper will be a good thing for many, as it will force them to live simpler lives.

      Of course, there are millions of whiny babies out there who will go down hard and take it out on others.

      For those who survive, there will be plenty of places available for you to live simply by moving in and claiming ownership once the banks start failing. Only problem is, you can’t go asking for permission from the fictions that remain.

      Those who survive will not be asking permission, those who ask will not survive.

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      • Odd Questioner says:

        Just one small bit…

        …whoever occupies it first may have some problems with you trying to move in. May want to check and make sure of a few things before you start barging in.

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      • GC, my brother! Always quick with the wise words. Thank you once again.

        I still laugh every time I hear people say “the dollar is worth less and less”. Its totally worthless anyway. Its just “say so” money. Its only worth something because we agree to ascribe worth to it. “It” is really worthless and has been since, what, 1971? …when trick Dick felled the final blow to the gold standard.

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      • It is necessary to exchange as much of your fiat currency into hard useful, needful assets. Trade goods will be very valuable during the period, such as small bars of soap, packets of medicines, matches and lighters, salt and spices, razor blades, etc.

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    5. Bloodyfellow says:

      This Marine has got his shit wired tight!!! Have not had much time to be on here (Blogging > Prepping) you choose….

      However it is nice to take a break now and then to check what Mac’s got cooking so to speak…Thanks Mac!!!

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    6. Copout says:

      GC: I think all the time about working a job, having the taxes taken out and going to a corrupt government, being paid under the table would be ideal, I know its coming. For some reason I can’t stop thinking about the EBS that is going nationwide Nov.11/11

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      • Spirit in a material world says:

        What’s this EBS you talk of?

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      • Mr. Blutarsky says:

        What is EBS?

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      • KY Mom says:

        Copout,

        “For some reason I can’t stop thinking about the EBS that is going nationwide Nov.11/11″

        What is the EBS?

        KY Mom

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        • Copout says:

          KY mom: Its the Emergency Broadcast System that will be aired on all cell phones, television, and radio, it is suppose to allow the non- president ya know barack to get into broadcasting and give a speech, i just think its strange, could be nothing, i just wonder. Sorry i didnt identify. I am just not thinking clearly anymore.

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          • War Is Peace says:

            The EBS is on 11/9 at 11AM Eastern, not 11/11. Still wondering if Elenin (ELEvin NINe) was a warning for this…asteroid 2005 YU55 passes between the Earth and the Moon on the same day.

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          • Gods Creation says:

            That is why you are not required to pick up your cell phone and all TV’s and radios have an off button.

            To listen to the corp is to give it power over you.

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          • KY Mom says:

            Copout,

            Thanks for the explanation. I think that is strange too.

            Lately, it seems there is a never ending stream of bad news about new laws and/or directives coming out of Washington.

            Keep praying & prepping! Stay strong!

            KY Mom

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        • greaseman says:

          Not sure what might happen on 11/11/11, but the illimanati love those days numbered “11″. I can’t see them missing an opportunity like 11/11/11, to do their dirty work, and to let everyone know that they can still cause mayhem and suffering, and death.
          I guess we don’t have long to wait.

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      • Beefcake says:

        I thought it was already set up, it was just being tested supposedly on Nov 9th? Web rumor I’ve been hearing is it is a coincidence that this test takes place as earth is going to orbit through the debris field of Comet Elenin (which is also going to be accompanied by asteroid YU55 in the debris field). Wonder if they are getting ready for possible bump by some of the debris which will cause YU55 to come into contact with earth?

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    7. Anon says:

      I’m in central TX in a very small town (one blinking) light. I think when it all goes down and the sheeple in the nearby small but larger towns get finished looting and ransacking and run out of food, they will seek new resources. I see them hitting the country folks, because they know many have gardens. Then it will get bloody for the country folk. I sure hope it doesn’t though.

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      • Good thing about country folks in Texas is that they are very heavily armed… Nonetheless, except the hoard to come lootin’. It will definitely be dangerous for rural Americans, as well as those in the cities…

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        • Charlie says:

          Neighborhood watches on steroids (aka well regulated militias) will be crucial to keeping everyone safe.

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        • Copout says:

          How about the school in Texas, students were told to stand and recite the mexican pledge of allegiance as a class exercise, i believe it was on drudge. Let me find the source.

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          • Copout says:

            Yes its on http://www.drudgereport.com with a video, disgusting!

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          • Mr. Blutarsky says:

            The student in TX reciting the Mexican Pledge was on The Blaze.

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          • I can one-up that! Fourteen years ago I resigned as a junior high teacher to have our first child. That year we attended an African Pride assembly. The students were “asked” to stand, place their hand over their heart, and recite the African Pride Pledge. Nearly the the entire 8th grade class stood and obeyed without question. However, I had some young men who refused. I asked them to stand to show respect for the visitor, but did NOT require them to recite it or place their hand over their hearts. I told them, “Never give your allegiance to ANYONE or ANY group you don’t know or trust!”

            *** In hindsight I was leaving, never to return. I should have been MORE bold and allowed them to remain seated…it was their “right” to not pledge to anyone or any group other than their own country or their choosing!

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      • We have the same problem in the Central Valley of CA the AG capital of the world. We can grow more food than we can eat and I suspect the Bay Area (SF, Oakland, San Jose) crowd will be here within a week looking for some kibble. All we gotta do is blow some bridges and the rivers will keep them locked in though :)

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        • John Q. Public says:

          @ Jim

          I have read (and confirmed with one farming friend in the Central Valley) that irrigation water had been re-routed to replenish the SF Bay and so agriculture was doing very poorly in the Central Valley.

          Was I misinformed?

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        • MrEmAN says:

          @ Jim…

          Sacramento or San Joaquin Valley ?? my 10-20 currently is Kern county

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      • Copout says:

        War is Peace: Thanks for the correction on the date, like i said not thinking or typing clearly for that matter, thank you!

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      • Farm cat says:

        Some of that depends on the time of year. It all depends on access to gasoline. If it’s 110º outside and gas is $20 a gallon there won’t be people getting too far. Having enough water will become a serious problem for a lot of people.

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      • Copout says:

        GC: Agreed, I was just wondering why all of the sudden they are being that back, I remember when i was akid (52) now they had the tests even on tv?. I am thinking more along the lines of false flag or dictatorship, with wanta be messiah!

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      • Daisy says:

        There was somewhere a few years back – maybe it was the Argentinian collapse – anyhow, I read that the people out in the country were being brutally attacked by gangs. The gangs would invade their homes, kill the men and rape the women and girls. When they were ready to leave they either kept the women or killed them. And folks were too far from any neighbours to get help – no one knew that the families were under siege.

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      • I’m thinking about hanging some coyote skins on the fence by the road with a sign that says “trespassers” or maybe digging a deep hole and put a wooden grave marker {boot hill style} on it that says “Trespasser RIP”. Psycological stuff like that may save some lives.

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      • That is pretty much how it will happen, those in the urban areas will murder, pillage and rape through their respective cities until those resources are expended then they will attempt to spread out to the country. The further they spread out the fewer of them will be able to survive, they will starve, die of exposure and have few skills that will allow them to make it far from their city centers. The thing is that country folks are far more prepared then we might think, they are usually well armed, they know more skills for living in the country, at least the older country folks to like myself and my wife.

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        • buttburger says:

          My Cuban friend, when we were talking about collaspe, said if you go to the country its worse. He was talking about seeing people killed in the street, etc. He said he knew a couple that owned a horse adn farm, and they came outside the next morning and the horses head was there, but they took the meat. The thing is, there are going to be poor/starving people who are AlREADY in your small town, and THEY are going to be a bigger porblem than city dwellers, IMHO. You will know of them, maybe never associated with them, but there won’t be enough cops to deal with concentrated efforts of people trying to get at you. I mean, think about it! Rural america has the biggest problems with drug use, poverty, people living off government assistance (of all races). You think they’re not going to be a problem?? And, how many of them are there? In some rural towns this is half the population. You think they are going to the city to get food, or that farm down the road? So, before people cast so many aspersions so much on urban dwellers, who will probably stay put as thats where all the action/jobs will be, I think small town americans have a lot more to fear from themselves.

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    8. Slick says:

      Great,
      More good news.
      On a brighter note, I threw a kick ass Octoberfest party Saterday night.
      I didn’t think about any form or shape of the future societal breakdown.
      The only painful realization for me was my head Sunday morning.
      I offer up this as a suggestion, enjoy the here and now while you can. Networking
      And building bonds with people is also best done in good times.
      As things get worse, these good time will become fewer and further between.
      And memories of good times will become more cherished.
      Well,
      Back to getting prepped for when shtf.

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      • Claymation says:

        I didn’t get an invitation…lol

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      • Plain Old American says:

        Yup. Simple pleasures. I had lunch at a German restaurant today. Wonderful food and (just one) a beer that I’ll remember for quite a while. :)

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        • Slick says:

          Yes POA,
          The pleasures were simple and delicious.
          The keg was Hackershorr Octoberfest,
          A stupid amount of Bratwursts,
          Lots of sour kraut,
          And vinegar based warm potato salad.
          If I plan a theme party, I’m a bit of an extremist.
          I’ve been told it bleeds over into my prepping,
          But planning a good party is not far off planning
          For unforeseen events, and potential calamity.
          It’s all really a balancing act.
          The leftovers are calling me.
          Have a great evening.

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          • Slick says:

            Oh shit!
            It just hit me.
            It’s true, it all gets down to food, shelter, and sex!
            All we talk about here is food, shelter, and how we can protect it.
            Dare I say it!
            Sex is the 400 lb. Gorilla under the carpet!

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    9. D-Man says:

      Copout: what do you mean by “EBS”? Thanks.

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    10. Old Fuzzy says:

      When the balloon goes up, it will be pay back time. Do you know who did this to us? Figure it out and make them pay for it. Otherwise you’ll have to deal with them again, and again, if you survive the initial unpleasantness.

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      • old southern man says:

        http://www.barefootsworld.net/usfraud.html. this who is running America.

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      • wardoc says:

        Agreed!!! Throughout history pay back was a major feature of when the SHTF. IN Bosnia the two sides (orthodox and muslim)went after each other with a vengeance, literally.
        We’ll see the same thing here, with civil warfare across class, racial and maybe even ethnic or regional lines. I am very curious as to how the suburban liberals will cope with this when it gains legs. I suspect a lot of the country club set will be eaten when all is said and done.
        :_

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        • Interestingly, in France after WWII, payback was very pronounced and violent, with many, many people disappearing. And not all of it was related to Nazi (National SOCIALIST Workers’ Party) sympathizers, either. Of course, this was a century and a half removed from the French Revolution, and in a formerly genteel and cultured nation.

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    11. wheedle says:

      All that one can do is prepare as best you can and hope for the best. A lot of unemployed, broke, and angry people are not going to just lay down and die. When people get hungry they are going to eat, one way or another.
      Keep prepping and Good Luck to all.

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    12. Claymation says:

      I really do think that uniformed urban dwellers believe that they can come to the country side and there are magic fields and trees that will have manna growing from them and their food needs will be met. I live around a lot of great people in my rural setting, I am sure we would help each other as best we can, but an outsider moving through going door to door may have a tough time of it. Clay

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    13. TexasTubby says:

      The fiat US dollar is backed by the full faith and credit of the United States. If the US Dollar fails, then so does the government. There will be no excuse for continuity of government processes, if the government is already assumed faith-less. So when the dollar dies, we are again all free, and it will be up to us, to implement a new constitutional republic, with very very few federal powers. Take it back, or lose it forever.

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      • Farm cat says:

        When the dollar collapses so will the government. We’ll live under martial law, complete anarchy, or the Mexican cartels will control the area where you live. I don’t see either case leading to freedom.

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      • greaseman says:

        I don’t think people understand, that when the dollar fails, and it will, that life as we know it for the vast majority is over. Those preppers who did their thing will get by, untill some other form of monetary exchange is established. But the other 99% wil be scratching their collective heads wondering how this happened. After all, the government told us everything was going to be ok. Who wouldn’t believe those fine people?
        If no one will take a paper dollar, and they won’t, all commerce will stop at least for a while. if no one is going to get paid, why would they go to work? There will be some interesting times ahead, but for the masses, hardships untold . it’s not long coming.

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        • If no one will take a paper dollar, and they won’t, all commerce will stop at least for a while. if no one is going to get paid, why would they go to work? There will be some interesting times ahead, but for the masses, hardships untold . it’s not long coming.

          I too have wondered about your thoughts…who’s gonna have a job, and if they do, who’s gonna pay them??

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    14. emptyhandkiller says:

      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click to read it.

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      • iowa says:

        Have you heard the Good News of JesusChrist?

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        • The Moon is a Harsh Mistress says:

          If i were a betting man, my money would be on the evilness and inhumanity of man. Evil wins hands down every time. As evidence, look at the unbelievable number of people killed in genocides going back as far as there has been recorded history. Dont think i know of a single genocide being ended by prayer; they tend to end when the murderers run out of bullets and victims.

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          • You think when you kill a Christian, you win?

            Hehehehe. The joke is (and always has been) on evil.

            Evil thrives in lazyness and earthly success. The worst thing to happen to a society is for it to be successful. It always, then, turns its excess into evil industry and we end up with something similar to what we have now. Great success will breed great evil. Great success attracts great evil. Are you beginning to understand?

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          • The Moon is a Harsh Mistress says:

            I didnt say anything about christians or killing them. There were genocides long before there were christians or a christian god. There have been many genocides since the creation of christianity with christian perpertrators being responsible for their fair share of them. Genocide is an equal opportunity sport carried out by wicked and evil men of every faith and by those without any faith. I dont think the victims really cared at the moment of their death that they were getting to go off to a wonderful heaven where they would live their eternal god forever and ever. They most likely died knowing thqt they would never again enjoy the pleasures of this world and this life and that they would never see their families again. If it helps you to feel better when your family is being raped and tortured before your eyes while you are awaiting a bullet in the back of the head then go ahead and pray. I am sure whatever god you pray to will be happy to listen to your prayers.

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          • John Q. Public says:

            The Rosary turned the tide at Lepanto—vastly outnumbered Catholics turned back the Muslim hoards.

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          • John Q. Public says:

            Nothing in Christendom even remotely approaches the genocides perpetrated by Judeo-Communists in the USSR and the Maoists in Red China.

            http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/MEGA.HTM

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    15. I’ll be making fuel grade ethanol from my handmade TIG welded, 100% copper distillation tower, I’ve built three so far, two for friends of mine, have two more on order. While the grid is still good, I’m crankin the 220 volt.

      I have prepped and still doin it, will continue ’til it happens. One can never be too prepared, it is the way I was raised, Northern Minnesota, trapping, hunting and fishing to supply us with protein, now I’m in Houston with some bug-out in The Big Thicket.

      Anyone need something custom made, better check me out while the time is good. I can design/engineer whatever you are lackin, stainless, copper and provide safe instruction in operations.

      I’m taking care of family and still have a day job in the Houston Engineering community….I’d much rather help peeps with their preps….

      Have you thought of Fuel? Antiseptic? Items for barter that peeps will crave and need, how about the ability to distill your own water from any algea, scum filled ditch?
      Check me out for that and more. Video to come at a later date. Anyone that can grow a starchy food can manufacture the above liquids with the pots and pans I make. If you cannot afford to buy one, contact me and I will give you a basic design you can USE practically, with you buying your own easy to find materials. Chances of you getting fuel grade is slim to none, but you will get antiseptics and “white lightning”. I do not advocate anyone consuming ethanol as I do not, but it makes a great fuel and antiseptic. I also do not advocate distilling the stuff unless you get the correct permit from the BATF/Feds. It is free but puts you in their scrutiny, but when TSHTF, it will not matter much, any of the law and order we supposedly have now. It will be any man for himself. I’ll be kicked back in the Big Thicket with my preps, family, deer, hogs and all the other critters within reach, seeds growing in the garden and chickens happily layin, The Fuel Maker running full time! I bet the smell alone will bring people wanting to barter…..I did use one of these units in Saudi Arabia, where I lived for two years. Out of a simple sugar, bread yeast and water mash, I made 94%-95% ethanol, cut it with spring water and in the words of a famous friend of mine, “This tastes like the finest Vodka I have ever had.” My friend, I know your reading this and I hope you remember that moment, as I will surely never forget. I’m proud of what this ole Texas American can do!

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      • caleb says:

        @Terry – I’m really interested in your distiller. I have welding/fabrication skills, some alpine survival skills ( like water purification from river water)- but I have never tried to distill ethanol- sounds like a smart move.
        I wish I had thought of this before- do you have more info?? How fast can I get a distiller??

        For years people have ridiculed the Amish- but it looks like they took the right path- at least when the SHTF the Amish will say ‘what’s the big deal?’

        Still I think a fallout shelter and a root cellar are wise to build if you have the land to do that.

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        • The Moon is a Harsh Mistress says:

          You can make a distiller very easily. I had one when i was deployed in Afghanistan. Distillers take advantage of the temperature difference in the boiling points of ethanol and water. Ethanol becomes a vapor at a few degrees lower than water does. Because of this, the ethanol in the mash is the first fraction to boil off and the trick is to condense it back into a liquid. Your basic distiller has three main components – a boiler which contains your mash, a column which can be filled with a inert packing material such as marbles for fractional distillation of the vapors (the higher in the column, the higher the percentage of ethanol), and a cooling circuit of some kind to condense the vapors back into liquid. My distiller used an air cooled cooling circuit consisting of enshrouded radiator type fins around the outside of the top of the column that were cooled by a fan. I was able to quite easily make drinkable vodka from my apparatus with a ethanol content around 120 proof measured with a glycometer. I filtered this through a charcoal filter type water pitcher and cut with water to reach 80 proof. If you were planning on making ethanol for vehicle fuel, you would definately want to use a colum type still with inert packing in the column for refractioning. A well designed still of this type should be able to easily produce 160 – 180 proof alcohol on the first pass, which will require further drying in order to be used in an automotive application. Hope this has been a help!

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          • caleb says:

            @The Moon is a Harsh Mistress-
            thx for that info- I guess I’ll have to make a portable still sooner than later. I’m wondering what heat source you were using in Afghanistan??? I can see that a heat source would be the main problem in a SHTF situ..though if you could do that in Afghanistan then it must be possible.

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          • The Moon is a Harsh Mistress says:

            My heat source in Afghanistan was an electric rice cooker that heated water hot enough to steam it. All you are doing is heating mash to boiling so if i were to make some hooch post SHTF i would probably put my boiler on top of a woodstove or even over a regular open fire.

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        • caryn says:

          amish and the mennonites are smart folks and they are prepared…but i wonder if these “friends” are ready to defend themselves should they be attacked by a horde of raving maniac sheeple.

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          • Daisy says:

            If I recall correctly, the Amish are pacifists. I’m not sure about the Mennonites.

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          • caleb says:

            yes- probably the Amish and Mennonites would not survive a serious attack from vicious gangs or thugs…but I’ve known some Amish people in my time who were very tough under survival situations- so who knows.

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          • Paranoid says:

            Amish are not pacifists, I was at a gun auction in Ohio last summer. They were stocking up just like everyone else. Stopped to talk to a cop watching the auction: commented “You know all these people are getting ready for a war, don’t you? He said yah, he knew; I asked him if he had thought about which side he was going to be on? He said every Cop thought about that every day, And he knew which side he was on, same side the people at the auction were on.

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          • Claymation says:

            Dude, I turkey and deer hunt with these people. I just drove an Amish boy and his papa to pick up his first gun this last Saturday (Winchester 1200). Simple don’t mean dumb or easy! Be careful!

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          • Just me says:

            Paranoid

            your first mistake, believing a cop, they’re going to be on the side that is paying them til the money runs out and then they’ll be out for themselves. Most will be using their badge long after TSHsTF to take what they want and things they need Then, when and if law is restored, they’ll step right back in line.That badge,gun and riot gear is on them to propect them, not you.

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          • caleb says:

            if I were going to a gunfight and wanted someone on my team I would definitely pick the Amish over most people- my weapon of choice is the winchester 1200- you’d be amazed at how fast you can pump out the shells.

            Otherwise small caliber is really not so good for war as after you fire on an attacker you can bet they will still have some fight in them for a while- I’ve seen that happen on the streets of Los Angeles-a gang member was shot 3-4 times by police but he got right back up and kept coming at them- he managed to fire many more rounds and hit one officer all while bleeding out. So if you fire with a small caliber- remember to get ready for more fighting…they don’t just lay down even after a .357 or .44

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        • Caleb,
          http://www.lnlprotekt.com

          This will take anything for heating, propane, charcoal, wood…whatever you have that is combustible…an if no water pressure for the utility side elevate a vessel, recover the outlet and re-use the water on the condensing side.

          In Saudi, I made 94 PERCENT, fuel grade and my next project is a molesieve for further dehydration…

          I love making these things and garantee them for your life or mine. There is not a comparable product out there. not 100% copper and made in the USA!
          I’ll do barter as well…

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        • MaryAn says:

          Water is definitely an important part of our preparations. Hubby is trying to hook up the gutters to some of these drums in the garden. That way we can store more and have some water for drinking and growing food too. He is having trouble though finding the parts to make the connections…

          Anyway, we got some water filters from http://www.shelfreliancesanantonio.com/jmp/jmp_bucket_water_filter_kit.php They were only about $70 and will filter 1 million gallons. That may be a good barter item as well.

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      • The Old Coach says:

        And where is the feedstock for these stills going to come from? Without diesel and gasoline, there won’t be any. Alcohol won’t run any of the surviving farm machine engines.

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        • Like I said, anyone that can grow a starchy vegetable corn, potatoes, sugar cane, any fruit including wild fruit will work as the “beer” for the fractionating reflux column, as long as you have yeast.

          Any engine can be retrofit to run fuel grade ethanol, well, maybe not any but I garauntee a car engine can, or a generator, try changing the gaskets, fuel lines and other parts to the appropriate material to handle the different corrosive properties of ethanol versus gasoline! Also, you will NEVER burn that engine up as alcohol burns at a lower temperature.

          Hurricane IKE is what has made me design and build this unit, next is a mole sieve and retrofitting a tiller and an old generator. I’ll have a freezer running and be able to plant without doing it all by hand.

          Anyone can grow potatoes….lol

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          • Just me says:

            any pre 75 enging would be fairly easy,when the engines started using eletronic parts and not all eletronic under the hoods, it will not be easy.

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        • The Moon is a Harsh Mistress says:

          During the second world war, many farmers around the world converted their equipment to run on woodgas made from charcoal in a charcoal gasifier. Woodgas was the primary transport fuel for the civilian population in much of Europe. Problems with it are lowe energu content compared to gasoline, and large amounts of charcoal/biomass required. The technology is very accessible to someone with metal fabrication knowledge, and a basic understanding of engines.

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    16. Justice100 says:

      Are we being played with all this gloom and doom, or is it real. I don’t know anymore. If I buy gold or silver, will my Family be saved? How could you possibly prepare for the next 10 years or longer? I’m sick of waking up in the morning, and making a list of the things that I still need to buy for my survival plan. I have become angry and impatient with everything. What in God’s name is the real deal? How much do I save monetarily, how much food do I hoard, how many guns do I buy and how long do I wait, for what I don’t know. I guess this mess is all inevitable, but I am tired of not living and enjoying the moment. When I think of what could happen to so many people and animals, it makes me sick.

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      • Justice….A $100.00 in face value silver coins is just under $2,400 at APMEX today. You could get all dimes, or a mix of dimes, quarters and halves. I’d stick to dimes and quarters as those would be the barter item you’d pass for a loaf of bread of a gallon of ethanol in a horrible time. You buy that – hide it well – and you’ve lost nothing.

        The same is true for foods with a 25 year shelf life. Think about how long it would take to grow what you and your family would need and stock up on foods with long shelf lives to cover that duration – maybe a little extra because its really not that much.

        Some defensive weapons never really go down in value, back up water either in barrels or at least a filtration system/treatment plan in case your community can’t provide it. All of that is affordable stuff. It won’t waste, its not a big expense now, but what will it be if its ever really needed? If not you’ve lost as much as those golf clubs you use 2x a year – etc.

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      • Hey Justice – I know how you feel. It’s easy to get burned out on all of this, especially if you’re relatively new to it like I am (about a year in). But you have to find a balance. The way I look at it, we are far better prepared today than we were a year ago – but that doesn’t mean we’re anywhere near where we need to be. However, and some may disagree with me, that doesn’t mean you have put your life on hold until you’ve marked everything off your list.

        At the end of the day, no one knows when the ball is going to drop and while it’s good to buy things off your list, there’s nothing wrong with enjoying the moment either. Lots of great people here on this site and others are at different stages in their preparations, their viewpoints, and you have to find what balance works best for you. Getting burned out at stopping all together won’t help protect your family, so do what you need to do prep and enjoy the present, because whenever the S hits the F, we’ll all wish we had done more no matter where we’re at.

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        • CelticNana says:

          I agree with Z. We have to get ready for the future, but not get so caught up in it that we forget to live right now. Our preparations are on-going; we have a good start, with bug-out bags and a safe meeting place, and we know every day where each in our little clan will be. We need to get and do more, but I’m also enjoying reading stories with my granddaughter, walking the dog and watching Family Guy. I get confused by the “buy metals/don’t buy metals” opinions and so am concentrating on other things; learning homeopathic remedies, gardening skills and building shelter. I don’t know if when S hits the F it will be a sudden, overnight even (unless of course Mother Nature gets into the act and we have a tsunami from the Canary Islands or the caldera at Yellowstone blows) or if it is going to be an increasing turmoil in the world that finally comes to a head. Either way, get as ready as you can because it’s coming, all the while enjoying chocolate and hot showers.

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      • Farm cat says:

        If you have the money and the space, store a two year supply of food and water. You’ll also need a way to heat your home and cook your food. I plan on using kerosene heaters and camp stoves. I also bought some five gallon buckets, toilet seats to fit on them, and kitty litter to cover the smell.

        Any savings you have should be in some type of precious metals. I like junk silver coins. I bought some at 6% over the spot price. That included shipping, insurance, and a credit card surcharge. I bought them here:
        http://www.providentmetals.com/1-face-value-90-silver-mercury-dime.html

        The doom and gloom is real. Hyperinflation is a 100% certainty. Just a question of when. The dollar will stop being the world’s reserve currency. Greece will default soon and that will create massive problems for the world’s banking system and for governments. It’s all going to hit the fan. Could be as soon as Thanksgiving or as long as 3 years from now.

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      • caleb says:

        @justice100 – yep, I agree with your viewpoint. I have been prepping since Y2K…a long time. The more practical skills you have the better.

        Personally I ddon’t think buying gold or silver will matter much as money as currency is going to become useless when they make everyone take the mark of the beast…then all you will need is a bugout bag…and some running shoes :) but seriously- the only reason to buy silver/gold is for their practical purposes. You can purify water with silver/ gold…perhaps silver’s most important use is killing many different kind of disease. Col;oidal silver is one of the best defenses against disease- the doctorss will lie to you and tell you that a virus cannot be cured with silver- but I know from experience silver does actually kill certain viruses…and possibly it might cure the bubonic plague which they might use to depopulate the shepple. I’m guessing from all the talk about ‘zombie apocalypse’ that they indicte they are going to unleash some type of virus on the populace.

        In any case – my hat is off to anybody who’s already prepped and at least psychologically for the doom that is coming.

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        • WestVaFolks says:

          Re “doom that is coming” that Caleb mentioned:
          I watched part of Glenn Beck’s show yesterday. He was saying how he had been to the Rev. Billy Graham’s mountaintop home in North Carolina recently and had eaten dinner with him. Said he couldn’t tell his viewers what they talked about; that he would eventually but he could not at this time. And then he (Beck) covered his face with one hand and started to choke up. Women crying – that’s expected (no offense here), but when a man cries…all I could think of was: does he have the inside skinny on what’s REALLY happening? Didn’t look like an acting job to me. Also mentioned that his wife and children were not living in New York with him at the present time. Sounded to me like they may be safely ensconced in a BOL already, far from the teeming uncivilized hordes of welfare rats who will be pouring into mid-town Manhattan as soon as TSHTF. Anyone else see this show yesterday?

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          • caleb says:

            @WestVaFolks- you better believe that Glen Beck knows what is being planned….he’s up at the top of the system -he knows what is coming. I think his wife and children are already in an underground bunker- the rich people have spent several decades building nice, cozy nuclear safe bunkers for themselves so they can ‘watch the show.’ As far as what is coming here’s some things which are likely:

            1. There are Russian and Chinese communist troops already pouring into Washington state and B.C. Canada- I think they are planning a massive invasion of the west coast first. I know for certain they have stockpiles of military humvees stationed in Los Angeles and according to the hollywood movie ‘Battleground LA’ this may be one of the first locations for an all out military martial law invasion.
            I know bad things are planned for LA they have many of those fema coffins all over Los Angeles.

            The Communist Chinese have been buying up assets all over the southern U.S. -land, oil & gas, real estate, my home town is eaten alive with communist chinese they are pouring in in literal busloads and taking over everything.

            2. It looks like they will unleash some type of plague- since they did this before with bubonic plague in Europe- I’m guessing they will use some type of modified strain of black death or maybe the new strain of MRSA is what they will use.

            3. In 2005 there was a silent invasion of Russian Mafia in the southern US – I know because they were in plain view- I think they might have placed dirty bombs in various cities- I believe they did this in my hometown…they were all over the place for the summer of 2005 and then they all just disappeared suddenly.

            Just for what it’s worth Billy Graham is high up in the New World Order program- he’s a dangerous man… all those people at the top of this system know exactly what is going to happen and they have spent our tax dollars building their own safe bunkers and such.

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      • Plain Old American says:

        Honestly I got started back in 96. Got disgusted and just forgot about the fed and Keyensian economics as best I could and started just living life.

        When I heard on the radio that McLame was suspending his campaign because of the impending financial collapse I realized it was finally arriving. I have lost a lot of my PMs just due to life’s events but some things I had gotten for SHTF were still fine. Been prepring as much as possible subsequent to some real serious surgeries.

        Nobody knows if they’ve got everything and nobody knows exactly how things are gonna go down. Just as wealth is relative those that have food security 6 or 9 months in and a garden are probably gonna do all right. Since most folks can’t get past their normalcy bias let’s just say their main contribution will be as fertilizer.

        I’m pushing 60. I wish I had more time and could cruise around the country judging ribs & chili or playing camp host in some nice park with a real good steelhead river but it is what it is. I have lots of tools, over 30 years of designing and building and wiring controls. Also machine mechanics and millwright skills. I can still drive a KW with a Fuller Roadranger and I have built some furniture.

        I will leave the kids a library that includes the complete volumes of William Blackstone’s commentaries, Usher’s History of the world, Pilgrim’s Progress and about 100 leather bound liberty books from Joseph Story to Burke to the Federalist Papers and lot’s of how to, math, electrical design and others. Hopefully they will be able to de-program the grandkids and build a new, more Godly nation.

        In the meantime, party on.

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      • Just me says:

        Justice 100
        JMO, but,your first prioritys above gold and silver should be a good source of fresh water,a grain mill, a pressure canner and over a thousand jars with hundreds of extra lids depending on how many you will be feeding,, those three things will cost at least a thousand dollars.next I would have at least five hundred pounds of each, dry beans,rice,sugar,spilt peas,lentils.pastas,all sealed in mylar and plastic pails.A couple hundred pounds of salt.A thousand pounds of wheat,it can be used a few ways for change, sprout it, make a soup,grind into flour to make bread. I would hit Aldies and Sav-A-Lot and buy at least ten cases of every veg they have on the shelves. about a hundred+ cans of solid white tuna,a hundred+ cans of span,a hundred cans of chicken breasts, a couple hundred+ cans of those Happy Harvest white and sweet potatoes.diced tomatos,pasta sauce,(lots of pasta sauce, I hate the stuff, but it goes on everything, even pan cakes or potatoes if you’re hungry) seasonings,spices, anything to make food taste edible.
        then there’s the garden tools, A Scythe, shovels,forks, hoes,a twelve pound maul,pick ax,wood spliting maul,ax, wedges,cross cut saw.buy seeds, I wouldn’t waste my time and land growing radishes or anything that I could live without, grow foods that last, squashes,wheat,potatoes,beets,beans, the indians grew the three sisters, Squash,corn and beans.
        Next, if you don’t have a couple acres of tillable land, now is the time to set up a partnership with someone who does, partnership in writing if your leasing the few acres for 20+ yrs or working it on halves with him to grow some wheat and vegs in the coming yrs, he don’t need to know anything about your other preps.On some sites, I read about these people who are bugging out to the woods and mountians to live off the land, well they’re in for a big supprise when their food runs out, dirt and earth worms don’t taste very good and the game will be gone, remember reading about the people who did live off the land yra ago, they were all about 5ft7 and lived to be 40 yrs old. you need a piece of land with at least 8-10 hrs of sunshine to grow food for the following yr, especially if you live in the north.after you have the above, buy junk silver and eagles, buy gold if you’re rich and plan on being a land baron or want to get mugged the first time you try to change a five dollar gold piece. Everyone should have the above even in good economic times, nothing like a little insurance for bad times.

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      • 101st Airborne Div says:

        let’s get on with it.

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    17. geo-lithic says:

      I think about this kind of thing alot, should I get more silver? keep stocking up or buy more bullets etc… but I think if it ever gets that bad you better be near or in the woods an have a whole lot of seeds on hand! It will be like a bad sci-fi movie only worse The skills you need will be the same as the original homesteaders of this country.

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      • Farm cat says:

        I’d stock up on canned goods. They last for years. A can of Campbell’s chicken noodle soup will be a great barter item if you don’t eat it yourself. I have silver coins but I also have 300 cans of Campbell’s Soup.

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        • Don’t forget the Ramen noodles for barter, Farm Cat…cheap, 15 cents a bag; and rice in ziploks is nice too.

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        • WestVaFolks says:

          Speaking of canned goods, went to Odd Lots store in neighboring town today to pick up veggies for our pantry and noted several near-empty shelves. Three cans of corn, several spinach, a dozen mixed veg, about 2 dozen green beans – that was all the veggies they had. Stock was WAY down.

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    18. Mr. Blutarsky says:

      People who lived through the depression lived totally different lives.

      My Grandparents were very successful in business. Their net worth was in the single digit millions. Yet both of them kept expired milk or mayo around because “it was still OK”. They saved every magazine, every grocery store bag, every glass jar, every shirt or piece of clothing that was wearable. They still enjoyed nice things but they didn’t give up on the old either.

      They learned the hard way that wealth is fleeting and that no matter how much you have today, you might have nothing tomorrow.

      Today’s adults (myself included) have NO CLUE what real misery is. The “poor” that the government keeps talking about are nothing compared to the “poor” of the depression or the poor in Mexico, Africa, South America….

      I hope we never have to learn their lesson but I am getting myself ready for the seemingly inevitable.

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      • Claymation says:

        Correct Mr. B, Misery today is getting to the supermarket and finding they are out of your favorite ice cream, for most people.

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        • manos says:

          Clay,

          I read on the internet news, that the lines for the new i-phone were beyond imagination. If this is not crazy, then what is?

          Be safe Clay,

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          • Claymation says:

            Back at ya Manos, yes it is crazy. We own one cell phone its a pay as you go type and it stays in the car! They should put a new app out called iStarve. It counts down how long you have to live and shows the different foods you could have bought with the money you spent on the phone and the monthly costs… Probably not really funny, but oh so true.

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          • SmokyMtnLady says:

            Manos…I getting a new IPhone from my CP provider for a discounted rate..then gonna turn it around and sell it on Ebay and make a few hundred dollars!! Going to use the money to buy more preps and antibiotics!! :)

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        • Ben Dover says:

          For many its when the pizza guy is late or they can’t get “bars” on their “smart phone”.

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      • Charlie says:

        Very true. Most Americans have no conception of what being truly poor is.

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      • KY Mom says:

        Mr. Blutarsky,

        My grandparents lived the same way. My parents still do.

        Growing up, I really didn’t fully understand why my parents saved everything that was usable – glass jars, socks were darned, aluminum foil was washed and reused, etc.

        I do understand now!

        KY Mom

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      • VRF says:

        Your right,
        I have a feel for the “poor” of South America. they may be poor in lifes “extras”, but not poor in soul or Family or willingness to work long hard hours and willingess to make anything thier job.
        If you have money to spend, their store will open just for you. there are no “Hours of opperation” cash speaks to those who will get off their back side to unlock the door.
        and they also will barter and know what their skills are worth in a barter system
        This I have lived,witnessed, and used myself in Lima Peru, that city works 24-7 365.

        Yes they have their crime, and they have their bad areas..we do too.

        In that country if you dont work, you dont survive
        No social safety nets, no Wall Steet bail outs either.
        If you are lazy, you suffer.
        Most are not lazy, some under educated living on scraps? yes.. but the will to do something for money is driven by the lack of a government giving to them what someone else worked for.

        Im not boasting about their conditions, Im just showing how things are different when some corp government isnt holding the hands of the lazy.

        I wouldnt want to go thru what most have gone thru to survive there.. but if it came down to total anarchy here, I bet a day in hell to saying in that set up would be welcomed

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        • VRF says:

          this last line should read…I bet a day in hell to staying in that set up would be welcomed

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        • Sam not sam says:

          True VRF.. and they are generous people too. I was admiring the shirt of a friend in Mexcio once.. one of those native cotton ones with the colorful designs.. he immediantly took off his shirt and gave it to me saying it wash freshly washed, he had just got out of the shower and he wanted me to have it. I couldn’t decline. He literally gave me the shirt off his back.

          If the SHTF and I was able to get there, I would head there in a heartbeat.

          I was talking to some friends early in this administration and telling them how badly I feared things would get under him.. they got all serious and told me if I ever lost my business, home and all my money.. you come HERE. We will fed your family, we will get you a house, no one will know you are here.

          You can’t buy friends like that.. and they were dead serious.

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        • Ben Dover says:

          USA’s social safety net has morphed into a hammock.

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      • Jim (another Jim) says:

        I agree Mr B, none of us have a clue how bad it could get. We go to the store when we are hungry, go to the gas station to get a pop or beer, and turn on a switch when it gets dark. I have stored food, ammo, medicines, and seeds. Right now I am trying to get myself ready for when the lights go out. I bought a woodstove and am stocking up wood to stay warm during the cold winter nights. I throw very little away anymore. I keep jars, cans, drier lint, newspapers. I remember the stories my grandpa told me of the depression, and I am tying to get ready for it. Keep safe all, keep prepping and surviving

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        • lynne says:

          i never thought about the dryer lint

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          • Stuff dryer link in empty toilet paper tubes or card board egg cartons. They make excellent fire starters!

            To make them better, poor melted paraffin wax over them and let it harden. (Don’t use the same pan for melting the wax for food again.)

            :)

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          • Jim (another Jim) says:

            Great fire starter. Another is petroleum jelly on cotton balls

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          • Just me says:

            better yet save the paraffin wax for candles and sealing jelly and go to a store and buy cheap vasoline, melt it and pour a little on cotton balls or lint balls.

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          • caleb says:

            @lynne- dryer lint is a great fire starter- you can use it with a flint striker to get a fire going pretty fast- also I have heard that some people put vaseline in the lint as it actually burns since it’s made of petroleum.

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        • Just me says:

          dryer lint
          go to tag sales and buy all those giant size candles that you can, melt them down and make reasonable sized candles.
          cottage cheeze and sour cream containers are great to save in case you want to give someone a little rice,beans,sugar ect. or even starting seeds in later on.

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    19. TnAndy says:

      Said it before, I’ll say it again. The best way, IMHO, to ride out the future is to be as self sufficient as possible, and live around OTHER folks that are the same way. Raise garden, have small orchard, have your own water, power sources. Learn to heat and cook with wood. Live in a defensive rural area. Stock plenty of everything you can think of NOW……if you can’t use it, you can trade it.

      In the last year, we’ve expanded our solar power system to where it now produces 5-600kwhrs/mo. That is more than enough to keep lights/refrigeration running forever. Put in a new 1/2 ac of garden space, and had 20 tons of chicken manure dumped on it ( and now tilled in and a cover crop growing ). Got 12 cords of wood cut, split and in the dry. Rebuilding cattle corral today to last another 30 years, and will be updating pasture fence. Will be adding a 24×40 hoophouse for extending the gardening season with cool weather crops next.

      Get with it folks, time is short.

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    20. I have many survival skills that I could barter with. But in the rural area that I live in, my skills are not unique. What skills I have, many others have.

      At first this set me back a little, or so I thought.

      But then, I realized that the skills I have and use, along with many others in our valley, are skills that I share with my neighbors. We help each other out with physical/mental/emotinal labor to make a heavy task seem lighter. And in the process we have cemented good relationships between each other.

      None of us count the hours and keep track of what each neighbor owes in return. We just show up and give what we can to help. There is no feeling of being cheated, for of being less skilled when we have to ask for assistance. Only the feeling of strong community that has developed over a time between us.

      It is important to educate ourselves in areas where that skill might be rare. But don’t forego training in skills that seem common and of no value. The value is there and will make you an important member of any community.

      God bless and keep on prepping.

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      • Charlie says:

        I agree, Mona. And some jobs require many backs or hands. Also, there’s always someone with a little more knowledge in one area than the others just from personal interests they have or previous experience. Maybe someone has a sick animal and someone else has had experience diagnosing it or treating it. Maybe someone knows how to do that saw cut that you’re not sure about or has a better system of doing a particular task. Sometimes all it takes to solve a problem is to get a few people bouncing ideas off each other for a few minutes. Everyone probably has different books on certain subjects also. It all helps to keep everyone going and getting their daily chores done.

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      • geo-lithic says:

        My mom used to take home left over food from parties, made my dad nuts! but she was a little girl living in Italy during WW11, during the bombings they would stay in a cave. An she would tell the story about how her family lived for a month on a basket of onions !!

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        • jen10 says:

          My mother picked garbage off the streets to eat. I learned a valuable lesson from my two sets of grandparents: One set lived in rural Maine and were for the most part self sufficient during the Depression. The other set lived in New York City and depended on a regular paycheck, weekly. My Father and His family did ok, they were poor but not hungry. My mother ended up in an orphanage with her brother after being forced to pick food out of the gutter and almost starving to death. I somehow think that there will not be orphanages this time around to save alot of hungry kids. Maybe it will be a FEMA camp that you never leave. No matter, they won’t be getting their hands on my kids. The horror stories from my mother lead me to believe that the truley evil gravitate towards misery and exploit it for their own amusement.

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          • Daisy says:

            Jen10 – you are absolutely right about the camps for orphans.

            I know a lady who was an orphan in Czeckoslavakia (sp) many years ago. She was indeed put in a camp, where she was raised. The govt there paid for her education in math and science and put her to work for them. She escaped over the border when she was 19, using a reciept for the sale of a goat with the military commander’s signature on it. She told the guard, who did not read German, that it was a note to allow her to pass.

            I cannot imagine how desperate she must have been to do that – if that guard had been able to read German she would have been executed on the spot!

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          • The “orphanages” will be you and me; teachable “help” that is young, healthy and don’t eat much will be very welcome.

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    21. manos says:

      On Saturday morning a student was arrested in a super market for shop lifting.
      He ate croissants in the super market, hidding in some corner and leaving the wrapping under the shelves. This was happening for some weeks until the security found him through the cameras.
      No accusations were made because the kid was starving, in a family of both parents unemployed.
      My friends, we are living history being written in front of our eyes. I’m afraid that things are going to get much worse in the weeks to come.

      I wish you all the luck, and be healthy.

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      • The thing Manos is showing us is what life will be like in the early stages of SHTF. When the government still thinks they are in charge, the people are hungry and there is nothing anyone can really do.

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        • Handy says:

          So, in this case, stealing is justified? Nobody calling for him to be taken out and shot?

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          • manos says:

            Handy,

            Stealing is always an offence no matter what.
            The thing is that i wouldn’t want to be in the position in making such a choise.
            Ethics from the one side, and my kid’s survival from the other.
            We lived in a peaceful period, with lots of goods, prosperity (fake or real), and development.
            I don’t know how a human being will behave in extreme conditions.
            And speaking for my countrymen, the extreme conditions are here, for good.

            Be safe

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          • Handy says:

            Manos, I was being a smartass. On another thread people here tore me a new asshole for even mentioning that there might be a difference between a starving person and someone stealing something they covet.Maybe I’m a sucker but I don’t think we are going to get anywhere if we don’t look out for one another.

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          • manos says:

            Handy,

            Good morning. I don’t think you are a smartass. It’s a healthy thing to speak up, to have your opinion and support it.
            As i said stealing is stealing. And to be honest there are two sides on this coin.
            It’s the side, in which someone enters my house and robbes me. Then what i do? Should i still feel sorry for them? But then, when i’m unemployed and do the same, shoyld i feel guilty because i tried to feed my daughter?
            I just wish we didn’t have to pass this. It’s foggy, and there is no way out, no conclusion, or solution.

            Peace.

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    22. Southern Trumpet says:

      If anyone thinks that they are totally prepped they should try and find someone who went through the depression and ask them what kind of skills or tricks were needed to get through – you might even get a few new ideas. I asked my grandfather who is 90 and while he said that his memory was foggy, he stated that his dad was multi skilled and adapted to challenges. They were wiped out financially but they survived.

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    23. Copout says:

      Manos: Being a trained observer,( anyone can do this) I see this all the time in Walmart, several times i have notified employess, thay say we are not allowed to do anything, i told them i have taken people to jail from this very store, when i worked for the Sheriffs office, dont you have loss prevention? There anser is yes, well what the problem, they cut open the dvd because that is where the security device is at and then put the dvd in there pocket, or order chicken wings at the deli and then shop and eat them discarding the container on a shelf!

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      • manos says:

        Copout,

        Shop lifting in any form, is an offence. It may lead you ot jail or not. Taking a dvd, or a towel, or some beers, is something that should be condemned.
        But what we live today, has no recorded similar. People will lose (are losing already probably) any dignity and self respect. The instinct of self preservation will lead people to do things, that under normal conditions would be unethical for them.
        Reading this kid’s story, from a city in northern Greece called Igoumenitsa, i noticed something totally absurd. He ate the croissants in the store, by himself. His parents were hungry also but he ate them alone, without even thinking of taking a couple of them home.
        Copout, those moments are so crazy. I really wish that it wasn’t our generation to pass this “road”.

        My best wishes for you and your family.

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        • alc says:

          In the Starving Seventies, I remember a certain amount of eating alone. If I got something I could eat in secret I did. If I got more, then I’d take it home and feed the family (I was 13, 14 years old). I know everyone else was doing this too.

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    24. Justice100 says:

      I have a question for the knowledgeable people on this site. I own a class c motorhome, I don’t know if I should sell it and save the money, or keep it because it may be an asset to me if things go very bad. I would never use it to leave where I am, since I have a farm with animals, and I would die defending it. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

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      • Copout says:

        Justice100: My wife and i have been looking to buy one, with me being unemployed and not knowing if we will lose our home. A travel trailer could at least provide some shelter, and palce to cook and be out of the elements, just my two cents.

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      • Justice,
        IMHO ~ If it’s paid off and in good condition, keep it! It’s a refuge and an excellent back up. DH and I have a paid off pop up camper that’s been kept in good shape. It’s part of our bug out plan. We also keep extra tarps and tents in the front compartment in case the pop up has to be abandoned. It’s also a back up dwelling, heaven forbid anything ever happens to your home!

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      • Mr. Blutarsky says:

        On the other hand, a motor home would be a target for thieves and also would not work if an EMP or solar flare hit.

        I’d say if you use it & love it keep it, otherwise sell it (if you can) and swap it for a good pre 1979 truck.

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        • Depending on the age of a motor home or trailer it might be fine after and EMP and depending too on what components you lock away in a Faraday Box to get her rolling again. Also is the water system gravity or pump? If its pump then you have a power issue especially after an EMP event, but if its gravity – wahoo – you got the only working bathroom and shower around :) I’d get some solar panels built for that rolling shelter and be happy you have something that be comfortable in while the rest of us are living in tents and building freshly made brick houses out of dirt.

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        • Ben Dover says:

          I wonder about cars parked in a (steel) reinforced parking garage (possibly underground) after an EMP event. Modern buildings often have an extensive grounding system.

          I have heard of EMP experiments involving cars where the effects were uneven. Not sure about the age of the cars.

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      • Farm cat says:

        I’d sell it and use the money to buy additional prepping items or to pay off bills.

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      • Justice,

        I have a similar problem. I have an 18′ travel trailer with popouts. I could live in it if I had to. Its worth about $3000 if I could sell it, however, I think I’ll keep it just in case… I also have 30 acres here in the midwest that I won’t leave under any circumstances, however, it they burned me out, my family and I could live in it in a pinch.

        Decisions, decisions.

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      • smokey says:

        You have a farm with animals, are not leaving it. Good. You may need some labor to help you operate the farm, care for the animals, and provide security. Running or not, it could be provided as shelter for someone willing to do that in exchange for a roof, food, and security. Not everyone who comes out of the cities when SHTF occurs are going to be predators. What about someone you know in your town?

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      • Just me says:

        I’d dump the motor home and save or use the money for something that I may be needing, that motor home may be a liability later on when and if people are running around, you may beable to defend your house from the inside, but you probably will not beable to defend the home if someone determined wants to take up home steading.

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      • AZ Ready says:

        Justice, I’m with RWM on this one. I bought a 26′ a year ago as a back up shelter and possible BOV. If it’s in good shape, keep it.

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    25. Copout says:

      Manos: I want you too know there isnt a day that passes that i dont think of you and your country men and women! I had a 5 mths old baby boy that at 3 oclock in the morning that had stopped breathing, i was right around the corner, and got the call, I tried and tried C.P.R. for almost ten minutes until EMS arrived, all the while praying silently and wiping away tears. The child did not respond. Man i have got to say that stuff doesnt go away, and to realize you might be taking someone to jail who just had fallen on bad times because of food, how do you know, how do you know? And to think those Bastards sitting in the upper eschelons dine on steak and lobster!

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      • Claymation says:

        Copout, I wrote about CPR above before I, read your post. I am so sorry, this happened to your family. I apologize if it seems callous of me given you situation. Peace my friend, Clay

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        • Copout says:

          Claymation: I was referring to a call I responded to as an officer, a small child not of my own. Listen two of my brothers were dual cert. firefighters/emts . Thanks for your service and comments.

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          • alc says:

            Copout I’ve been reading your posts and you seem like a really good guy. One of the 5% of cops the other 95% ruin things for LOL.

            Starvation makes kids WEAK. Weak in the ability to fight colds, to work, weak muscles, weak bones, weakens their ability to study, etc.

            In the US, in Europe, all over, mothers used to have something like 10 kids if they could because maybe half of them would make it to adulthood.

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      • manos says:

        Copout,

        I’m really sorry to hear that. It’s so sad.
        When my daughter was 3 y.o, she had an allergy shock due to some antibiotic called ceclor.
        Today, five years later i still have the image of her body totally red, swollen, and her big eyes watching me.
        We were so lucky to reach the hospital, she took an adrenaline shot, and then cortisone treatment for 6 months.
        A child of 3 y.o., took 6 kilos in one month due to the drug.
        When i’m totally dissapointed i try to think that there is reason for everything, and that God is having His way.
        But then i ask myself, how and why God would take a child’s life, and start doubting again.

        i’m not sure anymore.

        As for those bastards eating steaks and lobsters, we have a saying here:

        “The wheel will turn, the poor will fuck too”.

        Manos.

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      • Justice100 says:

        Thank you Mr. Blutarsky and Copout, Both have very good points to consider.

        Why a pre 1979 truck?

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    26. Morphed says:

      How are we going to make it through with “Every Man For Himself” ?? It will be hard to trust people, but living in isolation, afraid of everyone else will be next to impossible. Defending yourself and your family is one thing, but ask yourself if you are the kind of person who can turn a blind eye to others afraid and in need… That being said, there is safety in numbers. I think that communities will have to be rebuilt under new guidelines, new neighborhood vigilantes, barter and charity. Some will have skills and some won’t. We’ll have to take care of the ones that don’t. Welfare will continue, however, it’ll be at the hands of private citizens instead of government. When you are finished prepping, start collecting people in your community that will help keep things together. Make those connections now. So far, I’ve collected an electrician, a shaman, a farmer, a dentist, a businessman, a mother.

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      • Daisy says:

        I will NOT turn a blind eye to those in need. It’s wrong, biblically and ethically.

        I’ve been called 12 kinds of fool for this but they say God protects fools and children. Hopefully this is true. :)

        I cannot live in a world without compassion. I refuse to let the bad acts of others dictate my behaviour.

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        • Claymation says:

          Daisy, I respect your stand, I just hope it does not mean the end of you and yours. No disrespect intended, I know this is an old argument and I will leave it at that. Clay

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          • Daisy says:

            Clay – no offense taken.

            I don’t mean that I won’t take precautions or won’t defend my home. I just mean, if I see need that I can address, I will do so.

            I’m the type of person who still stops to help when someone’s car breaks down. I don’t know how to be anyone else. :)

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        • Daisy, I’ll stand with you on this one. Lots of extra for the neighbors. Its kind of funny, isn’t it? If they come to take it by force, without guilt I’ll defend it by dispatching them like vermin but if they come asking, I’ll slice the last grain of rice in half if I have to!

          I’ve been called a fool too, however, will they really say no? Some may but I bet most won’t. The “let them starve!” crowd talks tough but I bet they’ll realize that being human is more than just eating.

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        • Claymation says:

          Respect and peace

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          • SmokyMtnLady says:

            My humanity will be towards my brothers and sisters and all of their kids…if they can get to me from Florida…Happy to say that my little bro and his family moved here as of yesterday…haven’t talked to him about prepping, will be doing it ASAP!! I can’t afford to feed the world, so I’ll take care of my family, first and foremost…hopefully, if more people will plan on doing that, there won’t be so many hungry people around!

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        • lennea says:

          I agree also. Plus people looking for food for themselves and familys will be more willing to work for what is given. I will feed the hungry as well. And if just one family or person stays to help the comunity then thats just more people to help protect what we all have. We have to keep our humanity….

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        • John Q. Public says:

          You decent folks are a blessing to us all.

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      • Oh, voy..I’m screwed.

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    27. rachel says:

      when the dollar finally collapses and we are to the point of using barter and PM the media will not even tell us. I can see the broadcast now:

      “Wall street fell victem to a cyber attack today. Regulators say not to worry that everything is fine. In other news…Demi Moore is pregnant again. J.LO has complete her drug rehab again. Sarah Palin has landed the role of Princess Lea in the remake of Star Wars. Michelle Buachman has been cast as Darth Vader. 2 and a Half men has been cancelled. Ashton Kutcher will star in the spin off…One and a half men. CBS is launching a new reality show called extreme dog groomers. And President Obama has just delcared artial law. But everything just dandy.”

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    28. Patriot One says:

      What skill set? What is a basic skill set? Do I have any skill sets? I would say most people on this site have more then the basics, but we just don’t think of them as skill sets.

      The basic question is can you provide for the needs of your family? Can you feed them? Can you provide shelter and security? Can you provide for their medical and spiritual needs? If you can, those are all skills.

      In the future the basics will go a long ways. You don’t need to be a Doctor, EMT or RN to clean and care for most needs. You don’t need to be a General Contractor to build shelters. You don’t need a degree in horticulture to grow a veggie garden.

      What you need is a broad base of knowledge and if you don’t have it yet at least have the books. In the future some with all the skills in the world will not survive. Others with no skills will adapt, improvise, overcome and survive.

      Basic timing of survival; Security 3 seconds, Air 3 minutes, Shelter 3 hours, Water 3 days and Food 3 weeks.

      Post collapse we will all be in the same boat. Those who can, will survive. Those who can’t, will die and the numbers I’ve seen are as high a 33% in 6 months.

      The longer you survive the better your odds are of surviving a paradigm shift.

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      • mirbach says:

        That is kind of like the story of the two campers meeting a bear, one guy quickly puts on his running shoes, the other camper says “you can’t out run a bear!” The other camper responds “I only have to out run you.”

        My attitude in prepping is that I need to outlast the majority of the other guys.

        Everything prepped beyond that is for a more comfortable post collapse existence.

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    29. Jenn says:

      hey all,
      been “stalking” here for quite some time & enjoy your comments. thought I would add in my .02 cents…
      felt an almost overwhelming urge to store food back in early ’05 & am so grateful to have a year’s supply put back.
      was standing in line this past summer when an older woman with an accent began talking to me about canning. she then came out to my car as I was backing to tell me how important it was for us to prepare. she lived thru WW2; she is French & was occupied by Hitler’s forces and they starved. she now has a huge garden and cans everything. she encourages others to do the same. said Hitler was back on the earth again…her warning really got to me.
      thanks to all for your comments! y’all really give great tips.

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      • Plain Old American says:

        “said Hitler was back on the earth again…her warning really got to me.”

        Yeah, we elected the son of a bitch as president.

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    30. Farm cat says:

      I’m sorry for your loss. I wouldn’t pretend to know what you’re going through although my first wife died after a long illness when she was 30. We live in a world where bad things happen. I believe that bad things happen as a warning that life is short and we need to accept Jesus as savior while we still can. I was saved in 1980. I’ve seen God work in my life and the lives of others. I also think that God sometimes brings tragedies into the lives of believers as a way to make us grow and for us to be examples to others of how to handle suffering in a constructive way.

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    31. RICH 99 says:

      Fortunately for you people we have many many more years before this paradigm shift transitions into a different form , so don’t panic.

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    32. Slappy says:

      I live in a suburban area in New England and have been prepping for SHTF for about a year now. Luckily, I’ve been able to educate some of my family members about what’s about to happen in the coming months/years and we are making plans for a bug-out homestead in a rural area in Northern New England. However, like many other Americans, we do not have the monetary resources to purchase land with cash. This brings me to a much larger question that I’m hoping someone can answer….

      I am not an expert on economics, but when the inevitable collapse occurs what difference does it make if I have any outstanding debt or not? If GMAC Mortgage goes tits-up will I still need to bother making a mortgage payment? Will I still need to make my car payment when the lien holder is no longer in business?

      I have been so worried since my own EOTWAWKI epiphany about this time last year that I’ve been spending nearly all expendable income on food, guns/ammo and supplies and have not been concerned with paying down my personal debts. Have I been going about this in the wrong way???

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      • eric says:

        I had that same question. if my bank dies or whatever does that mean that I dont have to pay for my truck payment same thing. i would think that if that happens that whatever you are in would be yours unless the government tries to own everything and take away our rights on property. you know what i mean. if the banks died then who is going to pay on their loans. I think that would be a tricky reason for this stupid country to break the law and seize what we own. that would make sense dont you. I think thats when all would break lose. Can anyone please answer this!!!!! a lot of people have had questions on this

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        • Plain Old American says:

          Bank of America got 1.3 trillion dollars from the fed. I kind of think that this was enough to cover their losses AND my piddly little mortgage.

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      • I’m with Slappy—what happens?? I ignored the drywall I pulled off last year with tape(didn’t heat those room, more funds for preps), and NOW I’m painting the room…is it for nothing??
        I let my yard go for two weeks–that’s not like me—but, I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop—and I’m baking cakes, making banana pudding, and brownies every other day—If the SDHTF soon…I’m gonna be too big to get in my clothes!!!!D is for doesn’t

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      • Claymation says:

        Loans are bought and sold all the time. My college loan has been bought and sold 3 times since 2008. So, unless every single bank goes down, you will just be sending your payment to a different company.

        Here is where it gets interesting. During the meltdown of 2008. Many, many banks have screwed the pooch on mortgages. They foreclosed on the wrong homes, miscalculated the amount owed. Many of those home owner have sued the banks and won. So, if SHTF, first you may get a few month reprieve, where no payments are owed, after all who the hell is holding the note on my car, house, personal loan or whatever. More then likely someone will pick up your note, you will get a break in payments for a few months, BUT, make sure the bank or person picking up your note does not screw it up, if they do you win, If every bank goes down it would be yours “I guess!” Don’t stop making payments in hope that it happens. I will pay my mortgage until my bank no longer exists. Do not believe rumors and don’t give them a reason to foreclose. Make sure any mistake is on the banks part not yours. Peace..

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        • “When men realize that the “money” loaned to governments and people was all created out of thin air *ex nihilo*, created by the signature of the debtor, it is plain that none of these types of debts ought to be repaid. It was all fraudulent from the beginning. What we need is a biblical Jubilee, for that is the only way we can be set free from the bondage of Mystery Babylon.

          We are, in fact, moving steadily toward that end. God has hedged our way, forcing us to this conclusion. He is using people from every ideology and every religion on the planet. Instead of criticizing these people for their ideology, we should focus on the things that unite us. We have a common enemy. Most important, we need to understand what God is doing in all of this. Forget the motives of men. Look at God’s motive. Then rejoice, for your redemption is drawing near.”

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        • Ben Dover says:

          Cars are easy. If things go really crazy for a while and then settle down, keep it until somebody comes after it. if the car is trasdhed, tell them to look up your (bankrupt) insurer.

          Come to think of it, I will stay in my house until somebody MAKES me leave. In my neighboorhood, there is presently a good selection of empty houses in which to squat.

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          • SmokyMtnLady says:

            In the book “After Shock” they talk about this very thing…the economist who wrote the book feel that you won’t have to make any kinds of payments for a few years…when the Gov’t collapses, there will be chaos..but they feel that eventually, things will come back online, and then you will be able to renegotiate with whomever is running the show…of course, if your at a bug out location, with a car or truck you owe money on…I’d think they’d have to find ya first!! Just make sure you don’t leave a forwarding address…lol!!

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          • RICH says:

            Ben,

            If you bug out to the hills how are they gonna find it? I’m gonna go get a $200+k motor home with pop outs and all the bells and whistles, take it to my bug out location use my earth mover and carve out a parking spot in the side of a hill, build a covering use the dirt on top of it and hook it up to the solar , water well, then plant some trees and shrubs butt up next to it all, come find it then…. ;)

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          • Plain Old American says:

            The empty houses are magnets for criminals and gangbangers.

            Stay aware & stay safe.

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    33. Bloodyfellow says:

      My new bumper sticker – “Why no officer… I do not consent to an unlawful searches! May I go over to your house and F**K your wife?”

      I had a run-in with an overachiever with a badge a few nights ago. He had forgotten the law so I read it back to him….

      Now I remind you all that I have total respect for the law (constitutional law) that is and the officers that put there ass out on the line for your safety… this asshole was not one of them!…..LOL

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    34. Farm cat says:

      At some point we’ll have hyperinflation and a complete collapse of government and the economy. I don’t know how we avoid it. The government is headed for bankruptcy. The real debt of the federal government is somewhere between $60 trillion and $200 trillion. At some point the government will stop paying pensions, social security, and food stamps. We’re going to see total anarchy and mass starvation. I get the feeling that when Greece defaults it will lead to bigger problems than anybody imagined. I feel like things could get bad as early as Thanksgiving of this year.

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    35. Marine stands up to 30 police officers at NY protest.

      Great video!

      http://thetotalcollapse.blogspot.com/

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      • Plain Old American says:

        First- I admit I did not watch the entire video. All I saw was him screaming at a bunch of cops that were doing nothing but standing there. Appeared to me that he might have been under the influence.

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    36. 1diamondinvestor says:

      Ok, basic skills for medical emergencies are definitely helpful. What we teach in trauma or basic resuscitation is A,B,C ‘s. That is Airway, Breathing, and Circulation, but for cardiac arrest it’s CAB is the order. All bleeding from GSW (gun shot wound) need direct pressure for control of hemorrhage. Extremity wounds are very survival, but wounds to the chest/abdomen/trunk may require surgery. Remember Steven Erwin died from cardiac tamponade from a sting ray that stung him in the chest wall causing bleeding around the heart. He pulled out the stinger while underwater. In that case and most of the time u leave the impaled object in place just because it decreases hemorrhage by direct pressure to an artery/soft tissue until definitive surgery is possible.
      So what is all this medical trivia about? Well just placing emphasis on the fact that a hospital is still of much importance!! U can tend to your wounds for a while until local infection sets in or even worse is sepsis(blood stream spread of bacteria). With Katrina most if not all the hospitals were sacked for supplies ie antibiotics,bandages, pain meds, and equipment. The place that was never touched by the mobs were the libraries…go figure…
      Just a simple recommendation for the most mundane illness like “stomach flu” or cholera ie dysentery such terrible intractable nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea that most people in the “third world” still dye of severe dehydration. Have some simple oral rehydration packets that is sold on line. Pedis ute the taste like sh..t unless you’re a baby. People come in the emergency departments all the time even right now for intravenous fluid hydration because they are puking up uncontrollably. Sorry for ramble and any miss spelling on iPad.

      Local ER Doc

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      • Claymation says:

        A little rambaly doc, not sure I understand what you are getting at. I agree with hydration, but someone puking can not drink, so IV therapy and a good anti-emetic may be important too. (maybe an herbal one if you might know one) If you want to clarify your point an MDs thoughts would be awesome. Keep em coming.

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    37. Claymation says:
      October 17, 2011 at 2:00 pm Back at ya Manos, yes it is crazy. We own one cell phone its a pay as you go type and it stays in the car! They should put a new app out called iStarve. It counts down how long you have to live and shows the different foods you could have bought with the money you spent on the phone and the monthly costs… Probably not really funny, but oh so true.

      Had to tell you, I love it, Clay!!!

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    38. Farm cat says:

      It’s Marxists breaking the law. It shows a complete disregard for the laws of this once-great country. Every ignorant person associated with the Occupy protests should be ashamed of themselves.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 6

    39. Slim says:

      Take a little bite of this Bo. Yea, I’m talking to the dog, he has more sense. You’ve been running for office since you been in there. You can’t make tuff hard right decisions. Bring our troops home, cut the red tape to produce, cut spending, fire EH then fire yourself. Put Me-shell on a diet and look the people in the eye and quit putting yourself and your memo people first. Quit crapping in the WH & tax yourself to the shitter.

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    40. eric says:

      what if the banks shut down or all hell collapses. does that mean we are done paying loans or what? honestly someone blog on this im curious. thats when I think that the government will use that moment and try and seize all the things we own, please answer this anybody. would really like to know what you think about that. a few people answered that but didnt leave a answer.

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      • tugboat says:

        screw em i already defaulted and dont tell them i wont pay….i just wont period…they come here i will give them used underwear…f$$$ em…

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      • The Moon is a Harsh Mistress says:

        That depends on whether the collapse is slow or fast. If you have any outstanding debt that cannot be written off then i would pray for a fast collapse. A slow collapse would allow the powerful and those who are vested in the current system the opportunity to try and extract as much as they can from those who owe. At some point i would expect laws to change, banks would use physical violence to collect what is owed and the same leverage would be used on law enforcement to make them play ball. The only other option would be for the banks to go out of business because of inability to collect on what is owed to them. You tell me what you think is the more likely option.
        A fast collapse on the other hand would leave everyone in the same boat; broke and starving. Trying to force LEOs to go and force some poor starving family to pay an overdue credit card bill when there are serious food riots, raping/murdering, and score settling going on does not strike me as being too plausible. The most scary scenario to me is some kind of false flag attack or war that will be an excuse to lock everyone down by degrees. That kind of scenario would start with limiting access to your bank accounts, maybe requiring everyone to use electronic currency and outlawing paper money so that banks can control withdrawal of funds and shut everything down when there is a possibility of a bank run. Maybe further laws restricting travel or forcing everyone to stay in their job to ensure stability and shutting down vast swathes of the internet. I would be very fearful if i owed money to a bank in that situation.

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    41. Hoopster says:

      Reading an earlier post regarding obtaining new skills. EXCELLENT IDEA! One note of interest, however, the field on nursing (cna, RN, LPN,) is not what it used to be. Because of obamacare changes and medicare/medicaid cutbacks, its getting scary to be a nurse. Even a few years ago I could quit my job in the morning,have another one in the afternoon. Not the case anymore. As far as learning skills, priceless! I agree that in a shtf situation, paramedic type skills would be paramount, but when you have sick family members its good to know how to deliver babies and start iv’s, ,know what drugs do what,etc. So if anyone cares to check into being a nurse (RN or LPN) please do so. Just be prepared to work your tail off!

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    42. Brushman says:

      If, or when it hits the fan,i wonder what my skill set will be good for, having spent the last 25 years in residential construction and remodel i don’t really see an overwhelming need for it during a teotwawki situation.
      All tho i would be able to build pole barns, and improvised housing if i had the materials.I can also work in the hot summer sun doing demanding labor.
      And in my youth i did live on the farm and we gardened, i have also made it a point to learn about wild edible plants and there locations in my area,and there is wild game in the area but i wouldn’t expect that to last long, i do know i wont be the first person starving.
      Any thoughts ?

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    43. caryn says:

      i dont think the government will seize anything from private citizens of the usa…afterall, those working at the time of a total economic meltdown and for the goverment will be in the same boat of trouble as the private citizen…

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    44. Ourgang says:

      Got a son in law who is a RN nurse, a brother in law who is a mountain First Aid instructor, I’m a retired Medic (AF), my youngest daughter and her husband have a 6 acre place outside city limits, 6K Sq Ft house with chickens/ducks/yaks (yes I said 2 Yaks) and two Great Pyrenees dogs who just love Grandpa (they hate strangers. Prepped food, ammo and defensive weapons. Almost all the women can shot groups of 6 inches at 35 yards with pistols/revolvers.
      We continue to prep, pray and plan ahead. Gardens, beef calves, canning and pressure cooking to preserve what we grow / pick up. Ya’ll do the same. You can’t eat gold or silver. But you can trade barter 10 .22 cartridges for a nice bass, cat fish, salmon, pheasant or chicken.
      Use heritage seeds only. Expensive but worth it the next growing season when you plant what you harvested the previous growing season.

      Nothing wrong with being poor. What is unforgivable is being stupid – God gave you a brain – use it to survive.

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    45. Nursing school books are useless. Get a set of emergenct medicine books. As soon as I garduated from RN school Igot rid of my books. They have some physiology sure, but a lot of useless “nursing diagnosis” and process related stuff that’s useless in a SHTF scenario.

      Other than that hit Amazon and start gathering supplies and a nice bag to keep it in. Thermometer, O2 sat monitor B/P cuff, basic meds (ASA, ibuprofin, Aleve, Uristat and basic antibiotics), bandages, triple antibiotic solution, H202 etc etc…

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      • Claymation says:

        Lets see A nursing book can teach you … Haw to put a urinary catheter into a person (unless you like constantly wiping a sick person,) how to feed a sick person properly for a particular disease / pathogen, not to much in a emergent book about breathing disorders like chf, copd asthma except emergencies. Do you think long term care stops at SHTF. No, if it was not important then we would not need hospitals. Are you part of the 50% fail rate in nursing schools or what. Oh yeah “BEWARE” of H2O2, Hydrogen peroxide does not just kill bacteria it kills healthy tissue too, this gives bacteria more food at the buffet in the long run, a nursing book or a microbiology book would have told you that. At least get a good drug hand book!!!

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    46. Vlad says:

      There’s a reason most people don’t live in the country. It isn’t easy to survive without a job or start a successful business with few customers. Best chance to survive tough times is to organize with like-minded people, family, and friends WHERE YOU’RE AT.

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    47. smokey says:

      Just an aside, db says get some emergency medicine books. Great advice. One of these days, go down to your local used bookstore, and go to the technology section. Pick up the old textbooks on irrigation, hydraulics, orchardists, livestock, agriculture, steam power, metallurgy, electrical systems, whatever. They may be quite useful when high-tech is no longer available. They will contain a full course in technology from 3000 BC to say, 1950. I think we can begin rebuilding communities fairly well with that beginning point.

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    48. Nella says:

      There are other skills that will be needed in an after SHTF scenario one such skill and I am getting into it and that is Soap Making. There is going to be a bigger need for soap for while someone out doing a hard days work might not get injured they sure will get sweaty and dirty and a nice bar of soap sure would come in handy.

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    49. POSSEE says:

      Hey Mac

      Lot’s of chatter regarding impending collapse for this week or so..as related in your previous article Oct 7 ..2 weeks disaster strikes!!

      We’re now at 11 days later and it doesn’t look pretty.

      Still planning a follow up on your Oct 7 piece?

      Regards..possee

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    50. KY Mom says:

      I just read this on Drudge Report

      SPEECHLESS: OBAMA’S TELEPROMPTER STOLEN!

      LOL :)

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    51. Karl says:

      The cities aren’t safe NOW; do people really thing they will be OK, even if they ‘team up’ and have 13 years of ammo? The issue: FOOD AND WATER. My advice this YEAR: have a meeting with your closest friends – people that you can tolerate and depend on in a collapse situation. Then discuss pooling resources to collectively purchase a farm / homestead in an area that actually gets rain. Start learning homesteading skills as fast as possible. Learn about food production and storage / water harvesting and purification – focus on high calorie foods and nutrition. Look at single meal animals like rabbits and foul. Understand what they eat so you can grow and store their food too. Purina will not be around. NONE OF THIS IS DIFFICULT. Get off your duff and do it. The 2-3 hours of time you waste on TV everyday should be used for transitioning and re-skilling!!!!!

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    52. Fatty says:

      Thanks mom, now I have coffee all over my keyboard!

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    53. Gman says:

      As far as the economic collapse goes I would think if the dollar goes TU another medium will replace it meaning all debts and assets denominated in dollars will disappear. I’m following that reasoning and acquiring tangible, useful items for my FRN’s. Tools, food, canners, seeds, ammo, fishing equipment, etc, etc.

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    54. Bamboo boy says:

      I spend 200+ nights per year on the road for work. Most people probably don’t spend a quarter of that time in hotels, but regardless, hotels offer many complimentary items for shtf use. Bar soap, shampoo, conditioner, mouthwash, coffee and tea are some of the things I collect. I think this would be best used for bartering items. I’m a long time reader, just don’t post much. Thanks Mac!!

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    55. Federalist45 says:

      I hate to tell you, but if the SHTF in the way you all seem to be contemplating (wishing for?), 90% of what you are doing as “prepping” will be for naught. If you don’t have land in Chile, Australia, or New Zealand, you might as well decide right now whether to live or die. To live, you sell your soul to whatever group you believe will keep you alive. Otherwise, you die. It is pretty simple.

      This is why so many people are not preparing in any way. They don’t want to live in the barren world of “Book of Eli,” “The Road,” or “Mad Max.” They will opt to die instead.

      If you think you are going to be free in a TEOTWAWKI scenario just because you have a few guns, ammo, food, and water, you are crazy. A government and cabal that can bring about a SHTF collapse and TEOTWAWKI apocalypse is powerful enough to enslave or murder you in an instant. So, my guess is that most of you who so wish to live will join THAT group–the government.

      Finally, if you think we have never seen conditions this bad before, again you are crazy. In the history of this nation, we have had a dozen occasions when we faced perils as great as those we face today. That is why I don’t see an apocalypse of the magnitude most of you wish for. I foresee, instead, an increasing repudiation of rights, property, and free enterprise. I foresee ever increasing government control of our lives, creating a common level of life at a low level. The rich and powerful will always be rich and powerful. The tools of control will also be pretty well set. But 90% of the populace will be alot like the drones of so many sci-fi novels.

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    56. Anonymous says:

      Bamboo, you should not leave anything when you leave!!

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    57. MiVidaLoca says:

      Along these lines, see the latest article from Ulsterman where the Washington Insider predicts chaos and violence stemming from the Occupy Wall Street movement:

      http://theulstermanreport.com/2011/10/17/wall-street-insider-the-obama-white-house-wants-us-gone-all-of-us/

      Scary, but not in the least surprising to me. Anyone here from NY care to comment on Bloomberg or what NY is or is not doing?

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    58. Ed_B says:

      “It’s interesting you mention when an old paradigm dies and a new one takes its place. There are people who are still connected to the old one and can’t conceive of life without that old paradigm. I think you saw that in the Great Depression. A lot of people never recovered from it because once that hit it was the end of their lives.”

      This is absolutely true. My Mom went through the Great Depression and never recovered from it. It’s sad but this is the way it is for some people. :-(

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    59. Transmutant says:

      I personally think it’s a matter of multiple skills, not just one. Granted that there are some skills that are fail proof such as growing food, agriculture, security, mechanics of just about anything, construction skills and entertainers! to name a few, however you need to take up a set of exchangeable skills that are within your reach financially and time-wise. And it doesn’t have to be what you do now for a living.

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    60. ironvic says:

      My EMT training was at the community college level. The first time was paid for out of pocket and those skills came in handy when I needed a job during the Jimmy Carter years. Jobs were hard to come by, but EMTs willing to work in ambulances were in great demand, with great job security but the pay was not so good, it still isn’t; but at least it’s an income. Having EMT skills is one thing, but actually getting out there and doing the work in the ambulance is a whole ‘nuther ballgame. There’s no greater reward and no better way to hone your skills than to actually use them. Get your EMT cert, then go volunteer or work a year in a private ambulance.

      Private ambulance work will give you far more experience and the chance to have a greater depth of medical experience and knowledge than working on the fire ambulance. Private services not only respond to accidents, shootings etc, but also the not so glamorous but necessary work of transporting the sick and injured to and from nursing homes and hospitals to very specialized care facilities like trauma units, neonatal units and neurological specialist hospital units in the case of severe head injuries or cardiac care for instance. In these cases, the urgency can be great and you’ll have a RN riding with you with specialized, portable gear. The opportunity for learning and honing new skills is immeasurable.

      In both hospital and street settings, you are the guy who’ll have to decide how and when to move the patient, not a bad skill to have if you need to get a SHTF shooting victim from the street to safety and still keep him stable. By working with a variety of patient moving devices, you gain knowledge about the best way and what tools to use to get the job done. If you have just your hands and a few supplies, you will instinctively know that you can make a serviceable backboard or impromptu stretcher by unhinging an interior door from a house and using that so you don’t aggravate a spinal injury or something as simple as a cut-up cardboard box and a little padding makes a great, secure splint for broken arms and legs.

      But don’t for a moment think that you’re good to go just because you took a class and went to the skills testing. there’s a lot more to being a good, safe and competent EMT than that. I’ve trained a lot of new EMTs fresh out of school, believe me, having that cert is just the beginning of your education. Be careful, though, ambulance work is rewarding and I still keep a hand in it because what was supposed to be a temp job for me blossomed into a career working for private services, various fire departments and even working dispatch, which is another avenue for preparedness skills as well.

      I wish you health and good luck in the coming firestorm as we stand on the brink of tomorrow.

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    61. Anon says:

      It’s all about preparation and teaching. In the end the ones who will have to pick up the pieces will be your children. Will you be able to feed your child before you eat? If you get too eat at all? the child should be the strong one and you should be the weak one. Hence the reason people did not often live past 50 post 1800′s. How many people will drop off there kids where they can get help then wither off some where and die? Children must be taught what you are learning. You cannot learn entirely until you have taught it. some things are not understood until you put them in a new perspective. I am very happy with every ones comments on here. Books and reading is VERY important. Books of edible shroom’s and plant life. Eating healthy, understanding nutrition and metabolism. Knowing where asprin come’s from and how to distill alcohol. The list of books you should have is very extensive and I only have about half of them my self. For fire building. Might I also suggest gas or Kerosene plus styro foam. Not very healthy but will burn for a LONG time in a heat needed emergency. Remember to amputate. you need two belts a fifth of moonshine and a bone saw. Gangreen is NOT your friend. Also hand Sanitizer is a good idea. Cause no mater the “healing” you do to someone. If your hands are dirty it do’s not matter any ways. Learning how to trap and bait might be a good idea too.

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    62. Amelia says:

      (Retirement distributions or other entitlements. We have become wards of the state. ???)

      Wards of the State “My #$^%( ss !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      I am Sooooo Sick of hearing our Senior benefits, called entitlements!!!!!

      I have worked since I was 15 to pay into these
      forced (entitlements,) instead of investing my
      money where it would have been safe,and I would have received, a better return!!
      This is just a stupid spin, which is force fed wording, that we have been programmed to hear.

      Every one of us “Baby Boomers” has earned our Social Security and Medicare!!
      By accepting what we knew was not!!! right!!
      and paying into that system.

      They had No right to enforce it!! ( look it up).

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    63. GrayFoxGreen says:

      Greetings Everyone(Esp. Manos!Nice to hear from you)!

      Things in America are definitely experiencing what I call “THE CHANGE”.I suspect that true unemployment is somewhere north of 15-20%.And quite possibly going to get higher no matter who is “in office”.The honest,actual and out of our pockets inflation is running a hidden 20%-25% rate(have you noticed the shrinkage of the total oz.of almost ALL stuff on the shelves,guess the corporate mind believes we’re too stupid to take note!).Now suddenly we hear that America has “massive oil reserves” and will outpace the UAR.Oh really?The pump price ain’t gone down to $1.00 a gallon the last time I filled up.Where are they gonna get this “new-found” oil?By destroying/polluting our water supply aquifers by “fracking”? The list of FUBAR things continues to grow.Every scenario that’s been suggested on this site is possible.But one thing stands out in my mind.The huge purchases of weapons and ammo by the ABC agencies.Because they do nothing on “accident” this makes me think that there WILL be “problems” on a scale we never witnessed before.It may begin with a severe cutting back of the “entitlements”(WTF? no mo’ free phone for me AND the kids?We gonna RIOT mofo,and loot the 7-11s.We then gonna do a stroll downtown ghetto shoppin’ or even hit them malls in the burb’s!).BTW folks,SSI is NOT a “entitlement program”.It IS a system PAID into by people who WORKED for their benefits.Sadly though,there are many “extras” that have been added to it that ARE adding to the problem.Example,There are people getting SSI Disab. that aren’t actually disabled.But they DO hire better lawyers and doctors than SSI can afford to fight them.SSI as originally designed, would be in fine shape(though the Rich should pay FAR more according to their earnings,I.E.like Mittsy R.’s “off-shore” earnings.Since he’s heading “back to Heaven” it might help his case before Jesus Christ if he paid the taxes due on his earning like the rest of us,but I digress).The part of SSI that pays out all these other “extra benefits” is the source of problem in a large part.Never mind the fact that Congress continues to “borrow” from it to “lower the deficit”.But let’s don’t forget the entits billions that oil companies(and other massively profitable corporations)get from the Feds are as big a part of the problem as the SSI one.But you never hear ANYONE “cutting them back”.And we STILL haven’t received back the money “lent” to AIG and their Ilk(but the Chinese PAID cash to buy 98% of a small part of AIG,at a discount,of course.
      These problems lead me to believe that we are on track(by the way,Bank of Asininity just got a fresh billion or two from our “liberal” CIC)to a place of “A Change to a -ism”.The rich will do well under it(like they did in the early days of Hitler’s Third Reich),many of the 99% will go hungry(A more savage version of the Great Depression)as the ABC’s forms of “national security police” will “disappear”(as in the wonderful Argentina style)any who publicly disagree with the status quo.Now what to do?Hiding out won’t work(they have drones and twenty-five years of data on ALL of us,remember?).I can’t say I have the best answers or the best solution to all the above.But “setting something by” and having a B.O.B. near your bedside can’t hurt.Perhaps a Mossberg tool or two with attachments that you have experience with might come in handy to keep you “safe and warm” at night.A well worn(and read) Bible and a few good candles will come in quite handy when whatever dims the electrics and “the toys” won’t have power to work.
      Just my personal thoughts,differing opinions always welcome!
      Best to All,
      Hope you ALL have a warm bed and food to eat this day.
      GFG

      P.S.
      Manos,could you give us a overview of your country’s goings on?We only get the best “Foxed Neck-bone stew and air biscuits news” on our “local and national”,24/365 around “these here parts”.
      LTR,
      GFG

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    64. GrayFoxGreen says:

      BTW,sorry about the size of that last post.It’s a personal defect I’m trying to improve upon….
      LTR,
      GFG

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