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    Selco On Collapse Survival: “Nature is Brutal… Everyone’s Life is In Danger”

    Selco
    December 13th, 2013
    SHTF School
    Comments (599)
    Read by 38,855 people

    SHTFplan Editor’s Note: The idea of surviving in a post-collapse world has often been romanticized in novels and ‘reality’ television shows. The systems goes down, chaos ensues, those who prepare survive and end up at the top of a fallen society. It’s a story we all want to believe and idealize, but the reality is starkly different.

    When it hits the fan it will be nothing like we have ever imagined. Save for those who have spent time in a war zone, most of us cannot fathom the destruction, death and destitution that will come with a destabilization of our economic and political systems.

    Long-time community contributor Selco, from SHTF School, has seen what a real collapse looks like. He lived through one year in hell when the world as he knew it completely fell apart in the Balkans during the 1990′s. As Selco tells it, one day he was enjoying life just as we are today. Things were stable, food was plentiful, and people were civil.

    The next day it was all out war and neighbor was killing neighbor for resources – and sometimes for fun.

    Reality is brutal, and no one paints a more vivid picture of a post collapse world than Selco, because he’s seen it with his own eyes.

    It’s going to be violent. It’s going to be brutal. And people will die indiscriminately.

    nature-brutal

    About some survival myths
    By Selco

    The world of survival and prepping is full of prejudices and misconceptions so you can read and see lot of stuff, some of them do not have anything to do with reality because people are so used to believing what they want to believe.

    Other opinions are there for more sinister reasons, for example someone wants you (us) to think that something is true just because it is nicely packaged. Get this latest special close distance gun and you are safe! When every gun in good hands can do this.

    A few years ago I read about an idea that some guy wrote on some survival forum that using a skateboard as a transportation device to move in an urban environment when SHTF is a good idea.

    Other guys commented (mostly) positive on that idea. The fact that the guy who wrote that never actually experienced urban SHTF is important here – neither he or the guys who appreciated the idea.

    So after reading that thread, and after reading positive comments on the idea you could easily conclude that riding a skateboard through the city when SHTF is an absolutely cool idea.

    You are gonna form your opinion based on some guy’s idea, and other guys positive comments. Everyone agrees and their reasoning makes sense too. So now this idea can spread.

    And of course people are gonna figure out when SHTF that riding a skateboard through the city makes as much sense as screaming “I am idiot, please shoot me.” Maybe later you are gonna use it as a fuel for fire, or a setup for some primitive cart, so I agree, having a skateboard is better than not having anything.

    Using a skateboard in a dangerous urban environment where you should move slowly and carefully? Good idea too because it speeds up natural selection.

    The examples are numerous, and while some of them are just funny, others are more serious, and can kill you in a post collapse world.

    Very often you find discussions about battle, combat and similar on blogs and forums, and after reading most of that you may come up with a lot of choices, and because most of the discussions about combat are nonsense you will probably make some wrong decisions.

    While riding a skateboard when SHTF sounds stupid, you will probably see that it is wrong idea very soon, but remember that when it comes to battle wrong decisions today will probably kill you when SHTF.

    Nobody gonna forgive you your wrong decisions when SHTF. Your wrong decision is another guy’s lucky day.

    Let’s go over the few usual “truths” about combat, battle, fighting, violence etc.

    Right (good, truth, God…) is on my side, I (we) will prevail, win, survive…

    Forget it. Nobody cares for reasons and what is right and what is wrong when SHTF. If you think that you have an advantage just because you are good man you are so wrong.

    The first thing that completely breaks apart is the concept of good will win or “fairness.” We only have these ideas because of living so far removed from nature.

    Nature is brutal and good dead man is still a dead man. You’re gonna find yourself in situations when you wonder why this guy died and why this family vanished. People now hope for system, like epic fight of good vs evil. Not gonna happen.

    Everyone’s life is in danger, we are just preparing to make it harder for nature and others to get ours.

    And history is written by the winners, so do not trust too much in it. Very rarely are you gonna see the full and true story of survival without make up either because political or commercial reasons.

    Those who are prepared and are willing to adapt will survive. Those who can throw out society’s conventions fast and see all of the possibilities will have the advantage.

    Of ourse I strongly suggest doing good, SHTF or not SHTF, but please do not expect that being good will save you.

    Violence is reserved only for certain types of people

    Why people do violence is a topic for some other bigger discussion, but it is wrong to think that only certain types of people will (effectively) use violence.

    I have seen school teachers stabbing other folks, or skinny ladies shooting from machine gun. That moody evil lady down the road? She might become vicious killer.

    Especially when things start to settle after first weeks, do not turn your back to anyone you do not trust 100%.

    You also have to be sure that you are able to do violence. And what’s more important is that you need to be ready to do violence, physically and psychologically.

    With thinking “Oh I can not do that” you are one big step closer to losing the game of survival right at the beginning of SHTF. In regular society violence is not normal, in post collapse or survival situation violence is part of life (even if it is just hunting or slaugthering animals if you are lucky and live in countryside).

    How people REACT to violence is an altogether different thing. And you need to be ready to have problems after doing (and suffering) violence. You can not get away from that.

    I have seen people crying like babies after doing it, others puking, some had nightmares…

    Even the toughest guys who had gone through the whole period like “tough guys” suffered years later. You can not escape from that. Be prepared for that too.

    I have the most beautiful (expensive) equipment, weapons, ammo… I will survive

    Yeah, it is cool to have best stuff. But do not get yourself in a situation where the stuff owns you – instead you own the stuff. Good stuff does not make up for lack of skills.

    I have seen guys (women and children too) getting killed just because they were not willing to leave their stuff and run when the time came. It is stupid to get killed just because you love your possessions too much.

    When it comes to your stuff be sure that you are ready to leave it in a split second if the situation calls for it.

    What does that mean in reality? If you choose to defend your home from looters even if that means that you will be killed for sure, it is very stupid. Your escape plan is as important as your perimeter defense plan.

    If you own a rifle that is just too precious, too different it does not make too much sense either.

    I am a very skilled shooter, I know how it is gonna be, I ‘ve seen it (in movies, documentaries…)

    I can write pages and pages about being in battle and still you could not get the real picture because it is something pretty much unique.

    It is chaos.

    Forget about movies where guys are making jokes while shooting from machine guns at some folks. Sometimes I would go through one whole ruined apartment building, shooting at the same time, and later I could not really recollect all details.

    It is so intensive that you are burning out in those short moments of intense physical and mental stress in order to stay alive, to survive that fight. It is like being in some sort of tunnel and you become very much like an animal.

    People say this is good, because it is very old and the real side of us that comes up and tries to protect us.

    I knew a guy who was screaming while he and a few others fought with some group. He was screaming all the time during that fight, maybe some 20 minutes or half hour, and he was not even aware that he was screaming. When all ended he found out that his mouth was open, and he was trying to continue to scream but nothing was coming from his mouth.

    He lost his voice for few days.

    After some time I am gonna get used to the violence

    Well, yes and no at same time. You can do violence better (more effective) after some time of doing it, but you are not gonna get used to it in terms of that you do not care about it, or that you not gonna have some issues because it.

    Rare people can do that. You are probably gonna have some periods of “numbness” on violence, or periods without feelings actually, but that will pass.

    I’m not jolly good fellow bringing only good news and definitive solutions to keep you alive. (There are none, you can just make chance to get killed or dying smaller by knowing more and making better decision)

    But it is important to understand this side of survival. It is not romantic, it can not become comfortable no matter how hard we prepare. If you like to hear more about this, join my survival course in which I talk about my whole year of surviving in city under siege.

    You can follow Selco’s story at SHTF School and learn how he survived one year in hell. 

    selcobanner

    More Excellent Reading From Selco:

    A Survival Q & A: Living Through SHTF In the Middle of A War Zone

    Advice From A Collapse Survivor: “RUN!” From Major Cities

    Collapse Reality: “If I Had to Be an Animal, I Was an Animal. It Was About Survival.”

    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post
        name:     email:        details

    Author: Selco
    Views: Read by 38,855 people
    Date: December 13th, 2013
    Website: http://shtfschool.com/members/aff/go?r=183&i=9

    Copyright Information: This content has been contributed to SHTFplan by a third-party or has been republished with permission from the author. Please contact the author directly for republishing information.

     

    599 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. Unreconstructed Southron says:

      The red necks (not white trash) everyone has made fun of in this country are soon going to the ones everyone wants near them.

      • InfantryAlways says:

        I think a lot of us have some misconceptions about what things will really be like. I like to think I’ve gotten over that but I know better.

        I had the fortunate experience to spend 10 months in the Balkans providing ‘safety and security’ to a little place called Kosovo a few years back.

        This area has seen torture and bloodshed beyond what most of today’s Americans would be able to bear. What I saw there were small subsistence farming communities that seemed to have a bond only wrought in a SHTF scenario.

        I also saw the remains of the worst of human nature. UXO areas that still haven’t been cleared from the war, religious persecution of Muslims by Christians (and vice versa), abject poverty of villages, open sewers in the street and the constant threat of violence.

        Americans by and large would be hard pressed to do as well as these people did with what they had. We are in such a position in this country that we can (even still) right the ship but if it all goes down the drain, I think we’ll see some Balkans level living during the recovery.

        • Peterson says:

          I’ve been saving news stories and I’m armed with my KFC Combat Bucket….. I’m good!

          • Facebook Page says:

            I wish I could drink. This going to be a serious flashback weekend. And I was hoping to eat solid food in peace.

            So many prepare are not prepare for anything even close to this. I’ve seen same but different. And honestly if it was not for family and I had to do it again I eat a shotgun before.

            I know I have one more walking over bodies in me o my because I don’t want my new generation of family to have too.

            Maybe I can be rebuilding and have it all cleaned up before the next gen is old enough to remember.

            But then won’t they proablly just make the Same mistakes. Fuck us.

            And to anyone who thinks there ready for this you are a fucking liar. And the one that have been there we went ready either. But we do have at least an idea of what to do.

            And just his story. Make it world wide with no NATO jets fighting overhead. No food drops. No special forces medic popping up. No served support. And no where to go. When “I” finally make over the boarder. And no end in site.

            MIKE. Here has had a lot of time. And have been doing research and I think we are fucked. I always though in a way we were. But this truly the first time in my life I have had to stop moving. Even when I was in recovery during the service. I was always doing rehab and hoping to return. Now the rehab is not moving. And it forces you think it though.

            Yes my family is ready for a nualer missile barrage. And because of that ready for about all other things we talk about.

            But what do you do if everyone doesn’t die off as fast as they would. In a finacal disasterit will be slow. You will have to watch it and

            Shit it is easier to wake up and flip the survail switch then to just sit there and wwatch everything warm up.

            More babbering from the PAGE. So a prepetive fuck you to the the ones that needed a it

            • Peterson says:

              Excellent post my friend! Hope you get better soon dude

              • Be informed says:

                First, after a mega SHTF event is to get to the least populated areas as possible. Competetion kills the weaker, and the old adage that someone is always stronger than you is something that is probably too true. People have to realize something, humans survive in the wilderness void of any cities or even civilization. It can be done, then, now and in the future. There are people that are considered recluses and they live away from all modern life. Some totally secluded. The less number of people to fight over the resources of the land the less likely the conflicts.

                Basically man has really only two living predators that can prey on them and take them down. Another human and the humble germ. As long as someone is well armed, there is very few or any animals that can attack someone and defeat them. Insects normally don’t hunt down and kill a human, there could be weird exceptions. In general every other animal can be dealt with via firearms. Animals are not armed, unless some moron gives a chimpanzee or other primate a weapon. The only real threat is another person. Getting as far away from the masses is an excellent plan for a mega SHTF.

                Not only is getting away from people because they will hunt you, but also because people are going to be real sick after this happens or carriers of disease. You are more likely to get sick from someone of your own species than another. Viral breakouts are something to really consider as many times a person can be contagious before they begin to show symptoms. People get sick a lot of the time because their immune systems have been compromised. This is especially true when they have not had a square meal or maybe nothing to eat in a few days.

                Vermin is a problem because of disease. Whereever someone bugs out to, keeping pests away is essential. There are many natural stinks that animals, insects, and other life hates. This should be considered when anyone decides to bug out somewhere, to get to know the plant life and how it can benefit you. The American Indian used herbs such as sage and other natural plants to keep fleas, ticks, chiggers, and other blood suckers away. Know the plants and which ones can help and hurt you. A botany class before this happens might not be a bad idea.

                I have said this for a long time, many ghost towns throughout the west offer a place that has some structures that can be used. Better in most cases than some lean tube. With a few hand tools and some parts and hardware like nails, brackets and screws people might be able to construct a make shift place that could give them a nice shelter for a long time. Lots of these ghost towns are also near a good water source normally because someone lived there before and had to have water.

                As I am suggested before, the larger the density of people the less chance someone has of surviving. Humans are the predators and the humans are the carriers of the germs that are most likely going to take you down. Just something to consider before all hell breaks loose.

                • Peterson says:

                  That’s ALOT of gibberish without much content.

                • Canadian Vet says:

                  I’m kinda on the fence about bugging out.

                  First, you won’t be the only one thinking of taking to the bush and by the time you get there, someone might have come up to your BOL and decided it would make a mighty fine place to wait out the storm and taken residence there, so good luck dislodging them once they hole up in your retreat location without burning the place to the ground or getting caught in your own prepared fields of fire.

                  Also, in all forms of combat from hand-to-hand to modern warfare, one is most vulnerable while on the move. You can get bogged down in a traffic jam and run out of fuel, or get caught behind a 100 car pileup with no way to go around, or ambushed or any of a hundred other nasty possibilities.

                  Granted, if you live in a major centre or even the burbs, staying where you are can be a death sentence, betwen resources running out, the mass exodus out of the city and the breakdown of social order and the violence that will follow.

                  And if there is a direct threat to your survival, then bugging out makes sense. I am not so enamoured with my home that I will just stay there and die if I am in the path of an uncontrolled fire.

                  However, I will always favour bugging in instead of out.

                • Only Truth says:

                  Being good may not help you survive this life, but being good will certainly help your eternal life.

                  Don’t mess up. Eternity is a looooong time.

                • yourmotherwaswrong says:

                  Selco says:

                  “Nature is Brutal… Everyone’s Life is In Danger.”

                  No shit!

                  Is it just me, or is SHTFplan going tabloid?

                • Be informed says:

                  @ Peterson. I have tried to stay civil with you. I can’t stand when you attack KY Mom and call here kentucky fried chicken. WHY do you do this? She adds information to this site 100 times more than you do. You could add something to this site, but you choose not to. You choose to be a PENISson instead of someone that others can respect. That is sad, because you could add to the site. Rather you have some sort of vendetta against a lady that takes her personal time, without getting paid for it, to try to keep us updated about news events that we might not have seen.

                  You have read the articles, you must be aware just how quickly everything can breakdown. Or are you the type of person that was out sunning themselves on the morning of Decemeber 7, 1941 watching the pretty japanese zeros flying overhead. Do you realize just how many times this planet has been hit with asteroids that would end human civilization? Look up at the Moon and the Earth has had at least these many impacts, most of them in the first billion years, but they continue just like in Russia last year. Maybe you are the type of person that says humans will come to the rescue the next super smallpox virus gets loose and nothing will happen. My point? You are making all of this into a big fat joke along with the others that spend much effort being prepared?

                  I have seen you go after Norse Prepper before. This person has magnitudes of integrity and is a really nice person that does nothing to harm anyone. WTF, attack someone like Norse Prepper? You can criticize what I wrote, but at least it has value to it because I actually give a shit about what happens to the people here. Do you? I mean really, do you actually care about anyone here and their well being? Would you go out of your way even slightly to help anyone here? Would you help Mac and the site? Or would you just say f’ it and go somewhere else?

                  This is the real question I pose to you. Will you spend some of your time aimed at nothing but benefitting the site and others just for the shear purpose that you want to give something of yourself to others? If you are willing to give something of Peterson to the site then others have misjudged you. If you are not willing to do this and just want to cause others to be upset and add stress to everyone’s already tension filled lives because you get thrills from it, then you are nothing but a PENISson and not worthwhile as a person to others or yourself. Which one is it? A good person or a rotten dildo?

                • braveheart says:

                  Peterson, I’ll have you know that Be Informed is one of our brightest lights in this community. He has more knowledge in his little finger than you’ll ever have in your pea-sized brain, so go f#$% yourself!

                • Peterson says:

                  Be Informed…. When you talk about geology I stop and listen, but you don’t know shit about survival. That’s that’s some of the worst long term survival advice I’ve ever heard in my life.

                • Be informed says:

                  @ Peterson. The more isolated anyone can be the better chance they have. Small town America is going to fare far better than any major city. Competetion fro what is left is the word here. People can and do live off of nature, they will have to eventually. Most likely the main cities are going to be death traps for disease and radiation contamination from nuke plants that will fail or be purposely hit. Like I have suggested before survivalists are likely going to have to live by scrounding around.

                  I know for a fact that disease is going to be a huge problem everywhere. During the dark ages plague near 100% of the people died that were in cities, while 50% or less died in the countryside. Forget about people being the killers, germs will do it is better than any armed gangs. People live well now because they have trash pick up and clean water and toilets that go flush. Without this disease will spread like it did back in the 1900′s, but this time without the resistance that people had built up being exposed to it on a constant basis.

                  People can talk about the hell of these war torn areas and vicousness of people. What you don’t hear is the less colorful stories about people dropping over dead from sickness. Getting away the source of disease is a good way of staying alive.

                  I hear excellent advice about how people will handle themselves against people. I seldom hear anything about how they will stay alive from pathogens, especially bacteria driven death machines without antibiotics. I seldom hear that the source of death is other people. I seldom hear of pest control and keeping bacteria and viral carrying life forms away from the body. This is not something that people don’t like to talk about, it is again not colorful.

                  I guarantee that disease will kill more people after a mega SHTF than anything else. The more clean you can make your environment the better chance you will have. The less you can expose yourself to people that can make you sick the better you will be off. This is just fact that has proven itself throughout human history. Your number one enemy is something that you can’t see but will take you down with stealthness faster than any bullet. Whether you find some safe house, shelter in an abandoned place or some cave whatever, getting away from a plague should be considered for all as one of the plans for survival. And plagues will be rampant after all the safety nets are torn away after things go to hell. Not something that is fun to talk about, but something that works.

                • Peterson says:

                  Be Informed…. VERY few people can just hug out to some ghost town and survive. Sounds good, but it’s not something someone like you should be telling people to do. It would take a lot of skill to pull that off and survive…. and packing a pail full of screws and nails wouldn’t help out a lot!

                • Peterson says:

                  BTW Be Informed…. Where are you pulling all your advice from? Stocking up on soap and hand sanitizer would be better advice would do people more good wouldn’t it?

                  Stick to geology till you understand basic urban survival OK?

                • Be informed says:

                  @ Peterson. Long term urban survival? How about sewage mitigation? One word after SHTF without it, Cholera. How about talking about solving trench foot or butt crack rot. People have no idea what life will be like wihout running water and being able to properly maintain basic hygeine, especially in the ruins of any urban setting. Urban means vertical, and getting water up and down is beyond difficult. You are correct that I over simpified about ghost town adaptablilty, it does take much, much more. However you are not talking about the living nightmare that will ensue in any urban or not urban area after everything goes to the abyss.

                  The fact is that people have no idea what it is like without the clean up that we expect each day. I feel that much more needs to be discussed about this matter in any setting. Making soap, making insect repellent, cleaning yourself up, bacteria control, etc. Where is the talk of bleach or other disinfection? A well armed arsenal should include ammo and everything you can get your hands on to fight off infection and all that can bring about that infection. I hardly ever hear about oral hygeiene. The mouth is the one spot of the body that if unattended daily will and does kill people. No dentist to fix a sore tooth. I want to hear about solutions to this, like how well salt is used to keep bacteria at bay. Preventation and high attentive maintenance of the body from disease needs to be a topic more discussed about after mega SHTF.

                  I still say that isolation from the sources of what kills more life from plant to animals throughout the entire Earth’s history is paramount in importance along with the other aspects of survival.

                • Peterson says:

                  Granted that’s fine Be Informed…. How many people here are able to pull it off and survive?…. Not a whole hell of a lot, right? Like I said it would take quite a person to just pack up and head off to the nearest Ghost Town. Those kinda people aren’t in great quantity around here are they? Basic urban survival, nevemind bushcraft / living off the land skills are in pretty short supply around these parts.

                • DaisyK says:

                  I live in a small town (1,800) in a small county (11,000.) I thought this town was prepared. Lots of my neighbors had told me they stock up; the Town’s Emergency Management Coordinator had told me that if the SHTF, I should go to the Senior Center, since they had a generator, lots of fuel and lots of food.

                  Well, last week the power to the whole town went out in the middle of a minus 15 degree night and stayed out for several hours. When I went outside, I saw that I was the ONLY one in the neighborhood that had lights in the house. A police officer drove by on my street and stopped for some time in front of my house for an unknown reason. Was he making a list of people who are prepared?

                  Since then I found out from some of the neighbors who had insisted they are prepared that “being prepared” means they have 1 day to 4 weeks of food on hand – depending on how long since their last visit to Walmart, 60 miles away. No one appeared to have emergency lights or power.

                  Well, yesterday, when our weekly paper came out, it said that the emergency caused local officials to rethink their emergency plans. The generator at the Senior Center didn’t work. They fired up the generator at the Community Center (the only other public building with back-up power) to provide a warm place for people to go, and the police patrolled the streets looking for people to help. But people didn’t go to the Community Center because no one knew that option was available. They will be having a meeting to discuss the Town’s emergency plans and how to get the word out to people where they should go and/or what they should do.

                  Now I find out that the emergency food supply at the Senior Center would only feed the town for four days. They said not to worry, as in a more serious emergency, they would be able to get more emergency food and supplies from FEMA.

                • Only Truth says:

                  You’ve heard about the fake sign-language interpreter at the murdering Commie’s funeral?

                  Here’s a hilarious parody report about it:

                  “As Barack Obama delivered a self-serving eulogy which was only marginally about Nelson Mandela, his words were interpreted for the deaf by a man communicating in sign language which grew increasingly bizarre, while the message he was delivering became entirely meaningless. In other words, it was exactly like most of Obama’s speeches.

                  “But in this case, the alleged sign-language interpreter, Thamsanqa Jantjie, claims he was actually having a severe schizophrenic episode in which he started hearing voices, seeing angels, and believing that if he liked his health insurance he could keep it. Adding to the problem, it now seems that Mr. Jantjie knew as little about sign-language for the deaf as Kathleen Sibelius knew about hiring competent web designers.

                  “To his credit, Mr. Jantjie tried to remain cool and composed when he noticed the winged lizards crawling out of Barack Obama’s ears because he was still sane enough to realize that he was surrounded by dozens of well-armed security people who have extremely little tolerance for people who start to shriek and roll around on the ground near the president unless the SEIU has paid them to.

                  “Happily, Mr. Jantjie is once again taking his anti-psychotic medications and should soon be ready to tackle an exciting new assignment: hosting his own show on MSNBC and using sign-language to communicate with their many “differently abled” audience members who are hard of thinking.”

                • JohnFornaro says:

                  Gotta agree with Be Informed that disease is a wild card. I’ve been healthy for the last four years or so. Made the mistake of bragging about it, I guess, and was slammed with illness. Since I pay my own way, there were several hundred dollars of doctor’s bills and medical costs that weren’t on the budget. Fortunately, I had a small stack of saved paper money which paid for that. I call it a good trade: Good health for a few slips of paper.

                  Without medical care, the story would be different. If you’re bugging out, your chances of good health care in that situation are lower.

                • laeagle says:

                  @BI, Your postings are always appreciated and full of wisdom and sense. I, like Selco, have lived in a war zone, for many years(civil war), not just one or two years. There is something to be said about numbers. There is strength in numbers. A community of like-minded people are more likely to survive than a lone wolf. No one person can do it all. We need to build networks of like minded people. If there is ever to be a rebuilding phase, we need communities, there is strength in numbers. The hordes that will be looking for food and weapons will easily pluck off the weak, the infirmed, and the loners. Think community. I know some of the more outspoken members of this community don’t like my message but we must form net works and communities.

                  Some of the most deadly germs are viruses. Many at this site have given me a red thumbs down for recommending vaccines. It is utter foolishness to not get vaccinated for the many viral infections that we have available out there. It is amazing to me that such seemingly smart people can be so short sighted. It should be everyone’s business to worry about germs and infections. There will be many plagues that will be unleashed when SHTF. If enough people don’t get immunized there can be no ‘herd immunity’. Many none-immunized people are protected indirectly by ‘herd immunity’.

                  @Peterson, I do take the time to see what you wrote. I have noticed some potential in you but, like BI pointed out, please accentuate the positive and stop picking on certain people. Thanks.

                • Hrm.

                  May want to do some research first – well, scratch that: Do a metric shitload of research before planning such a thing. Most roads will be clogged up pretty quick if it gets on in earnest… wanna know why? Because EVERYONE ELSE HAS THE SAME DAMNED IDEA.

                  If you don’t have anywhere to go, and there’s no one waiting for you (or worse, nothing waiting for you), you’re fucked with a capital “F”.

                  If you stash stuff out there and think you can get to it and find it usable, odds are good they’ll be found (unless you’re psychic). Why? Consider the little town of Portland, Oregon. Let’s say you live near the place, in one of the suburbs, say.

                  Not a particularly big town, but almost 3 million people live in the Portland Metro area. That’s a lot of desperate mofos hoofing it out to the countryside. Most will stick to the highways, even walking along them, but even a small fraction comes to thousands of people, all crawling over the countryside like locusts. Odds are effing perfect that at least one of them are going to stumble across your woods-buried cache before you reach it.

                  The odds aren’t much better if you live within 60 miles from the outskirts of of any town or region with more than 60,000 in it… that’s only two days of walking (again, 3mph x two 10 hour shifts…)

                  Mind you, this isn;t even counting being held in-cordon by the national guard (if the fecal matter striking the fan happens to be a pandemic, then count on it…)

                  IMHO opinion, if you’re not living outside of town already and in a solid community, your odds are probably better by banding together in your own existing suburban neighborhood.

                  Either way, the decision to stay or go should be made as early as possible, but you should always be ready to modify it *as the situation develops.* Flexibility is the key to survival, not a hard dichotomy.

                  PS: most “ghost towns” are that way for a reason, especially out West… in most Western areas, those ghost towns are usually short/out of water, on land you can’t grow jack on, or for some other perfectly valid reason that drove the original settlers out, and prevented anyone else from making a go of it there later on.

                  If you still insist on a bug-out location? Move to it while you still can, or have someone you trust perfectly holding your stuff for you there.

                • NoBransLeft says:

                  The Black Death was one of the most devastating pandemics in human history, resulting in the deaths of an estimated 75 to 200 million people and peaking in Europe in the years 1348–50 CE.[1][2][3] Although there were several competing theories as to the etiology of the Black Death, analysis of DNA from victims in northern and southern Europe published in 2010 and 2011 indicates that the pathogen responsible was the Yersinia pestis bacterium, probably causing several forms of plague

                • john says:

                  WHAT WILL YOU DO WHEN A PERSON WHO CLAIMS TO BE YOUR FRIEND KNOCKS ON YOUR DOOR AND SAYS THEY ARE STARVING AND WANT SOME FOOD AND WATER? ONCE THEY GET IN, THEY CAN TURN ON YOU AND KILL YOU………….THINK ABOUT THIS BEFORE YOU NEED TO ACT ON IT. WILL YOU SHOOT YOUR NEIGHBOR ? ? IF YOU WARNED THEM OF THE POSSIBLITIES THAT ARE COMING AND THEY DON’T TAKE HEED. MAYBE THEY NEED TO BE SHOT. JUST A THOUGHT. DESTARATE PEOPLE DO DESPARATE DEEDS. rmember that.

              • Gunner says:

                I would think that a good indicator

                of how bad it would be the way SELCO

                describes it, is our war veterans that

                return home here and commit suicide at

                the rate of one per hour.

                • sixpack says:

                  Another shooting at a school

                  http://news.yahoo.com/reports-shooting-at-high-school-near-denver-201843048.html?bcmt=comments-postbox

                  A STUDENT confronts the gunman, while the targeted TEACHER runs for their life…maybe kids are getting tired of this shit going on in their schools.

                • Yes, but that didn’t happen in previous generations, which arguably saw even worse combat (e.g., hand to hand, bayonetting, etc.) I think there are other variables here, such as lack of family support, Prozac-ing everyone, etc.

                • John W. says:

                  That’s bull crap. No where near that number and usually not because of their service experiences but because their old lady is leaving them and hosing them on the divorce.

                • Jasmine says:

                  @Gunner,
                  Selco, has more real life actual SHTF experience than Rawles, by far. I’ll take experience over speculation EVERY time.

                  @Sixpack,
                  You may be wrong about the teacher “running for their life”. It is being reported in Colorado that the teacher was drawing the shooter away from the other students, and is a hero. Just saying. Regardless, I’d like to point out to the entire state legislature of Colorado, and the Governor, you’re a pack of liars. The gun control laws you passed earlier this year have failed, once again, to make things safer for the citizens of Colorado. All of the legislators who voted for the gun control laws, AND the Governor, should just resign, NOW. It’ll save the hassle of recall elections, which have proven effective in Colorado.

                • Todd Morden says:

                  What is in the water (or air) in Denver. Seems like they have way more school shootings than other large American cities.

                • sixpack says:

                  @Jasmine, yes, you’re right about the teacher’s leaving having another possible motive. The kid had a beef with that particular teacher, apparently.

                  I guess I was just raised to stand and face my own problems, rather than let others do it for me in my absence. I, personally, would’ve felt guilty that something I did/said might have caused the episode, and that some kids had to take a pounding on my behalf.

                  It would be nice to believe that the teacher was trying to lead the shooter away from the kids by fleeing, and that may have been the intention. But with the way people are today, you can’t help but doubt it, at least for a minute.

                • john says:

                  They are commiting suicide because they know how bad it can get and they see what is coming from past experience. Korean vet. EVIL TRIUMPHS WHERE GOOD MEN DO NOTHING. green beret

            • JustMe says:

              FBP, get well.

              As always, Selco speaks the truth. His SHTFschool is worth the cost.

            • JohnFornaro says:

              Canadian Vet:

              “I’m kinda on the fence about bugging out.”

              You and me both. Somewhere on this forum, somebody argued along the lines that it was foolish to attempt to defend one’s homestead; that it was the better part of wisdom to bug out and live to fight another day.

              That cannot be true in all, or maybe even most cases. Many of the people here have spent a great deal of effort in building gardens, and sheds, and have collected tools and seeds, stuff like that. There’s no place else to run to. It’s important to defend what you have.

              Cormack McCarthy wrote “The Road”, about a father and son in a post apocalyptic world. Rather than a nuclear end, it seemed more like a volcanic end, because there were thick layers of ash everywhere. The result was that there was little that was growing, and little to eat. The human and even animal population was very low; some of the few survivors had taken to cannibalism in order to eat. The father had three or four bullets left in his revolver; enough to fend off one or two attacks by individuals, but not by a gang. They scrounged already scrounged abandoned houses for food. Occasionally they found a stash of food, but were afraid to stay very long in one place because of the ever present fear of roving gangs, looking for the smoke of campfires. A very bleak picture of how bad it could get.

              One important silver lining in the current situation of our country is that there are many gazillionaires who do not want an economic collapse. With NK being the current example of a “Hunger Games” country and economy, any wealthy American with any amount of sense realizes that that particular model does not guarantee one’s self and family immunity from annihilation. I believe that there are strong forces which work against a complete and total economic collapse.

              This gives me the hope that the country could survive another Great Depression, where at least there was not a complete breakdown in government and society. Still, there are strong forces for dissolving the country too, and many of these forces are domestic, which is very worrying.

              I too favor bugging in. I sincerely hope that I will not have to greet an unwelcome visitor with: “Hakuna metata mudda fukka”. Or vice versa.

              • The decision to stay or go depends on too many factors to settle for one over the other – at least not without a good, hard look at where you are, and what condition it’s in.

                Either way you decide, always leave sufficient preparation for the opposite of your initial decision.

                If you intend to stay home, keep bug-out bags, full gas-tanks, and solid vehicles on-hand to get the hell out (and be 200% certain of having multiple ways of getting out of there.)

                If you intend to run, always keep a little extra at home – enough to survive on, because you never know if you may be stuck at home.

          • braveheart says:

            Good for you. Now be a nice troll and go away.

        • PrepShepherd says:

          No clue how bad it will be, but I admit I’m kind of hoping it will be a simpler life, which I’d look forward to… I mean if you can survive however long it takes for things to cool down. They say Americans are an unhappy lot compared to some lower status countries, which I believe. My parents come from poor, but they made do. Hell I’m poor pretty much already so I won’t have as far to fall. Right now I’m trying to set it up to where I’ll gain and hopefully prosper if/when it happens.

          • NoBransLeft says:

            Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose,
            Nothin’ don’t mean nothin’, honey, if it ain’t free.
            Yeah, feeling good was easy, Lord, when he sang the blues,
            You know feeling good was good enough for me,
            Good enough for me and my Bobby McGee.

            kris Kristofferson

        • MongoPissed says:

          I always appreciate the word of someone who has lived through horror, as opposed to the theorist. Like the author, you have apparently looked into the pit. Have you done any more writing on the topic?

        • I going to send my 400 lb. fat ol’lady NAKED out side and if they don’t puke to death,they’ll run like their ass is on fire,I’ll hang a sign around her neck,TAKE ME I’AM FREE,that’ll scare to death…………

      • Unreconstructed Southron says:

        AL: Whatsa matter, Ma? Gettin’ scared?

        MA: No. Ain’t ever gonna be scared no more.

        (After a pause)I was, though. For a while I thought we was beat–*good* an’ beat. Looked like we didn’t have nothin’ in the worl’ but enemies–wasn’t nobody frien’ly anymore. It made me feel bad an’ scared too–like we was lost… an’ nobody cared.

        AL: Watch me pass that Chevvy.

        PA: You the one that keeps us goin’, Ma. I ain’t no good any more, an’ I know it. Seems like I spen’ all my time these days a-thinkin’ how it use’ta be–thinkin’ of home–an’ I ain’t never gonna see it no more.

        MA: Woman can change better’n a man. Man lives in jerks–baby born, or somebody dies, that’s a jerk–gets a farm, or loses one, an’ that’s a jerk. With a woman it’s all one flow, like a
        stream, little eddies, little waterfalls, but the river it goes right on. Woman looks at it like that.

        AL: Look at that ol’ coffeepot steam!

        PA: Maybe, but we shore takin’ a beatin’.

        MA:(chuckling): I know. Maybe that makes us tough. Rich fellas come up an’ they die, an’ their kids ain’t no good, an’ they die out. But we keep a-comin’. We’re the people that live. Can’t nobody wipe us out. Can’t nobody lick us. We’ll go on forever, Pa.

        We’re the people.

      • Ugly says:

        Yeah but,

        None of us Conservative, USA loving and Patriot types will ever want to be near them. They are the ones to toss you into a gulag for a bowl of soup.

      • Old Gringo says:

        Unreconstructed: You’re spot on. The boys that grew up hunting and fishing, that joined the military, are definitely going to have a “leg up” in such a scenario.
        Selco is great, I’ve been following him for a couple of years. In a sense he’s just reiterating what George Patton said 70 years ago. “Once the 1st shot is fired, all plans go out the window”.
        Quick Tip: Stock Toilet Paper. It will be like gold.

        • California Girl says:

          A while back someone on this site recommended using a small squirt bottle of water to clean yourself with instead of using toilet paper. Each person in your family would have their own bottle and their own wash cloth to dry themselves after. It’s good to stock up on toilet paper, too, but you never know… I thought that was a great idea, sorry I can’t remember who it was. May the genius step forward and identify themselves!

        • NoRegretVet says:

          I was always told…

          ” If you feel like you are in a fair fight…Your Tactics suck !!! “

        • nosuchuser says:

          No plan survives contact with the enemy….

          Napoleon said ‘get the objectives right and a captain can write the strategy’.

          So the real question (the hard question) is what do I want to achieve? What objectives must I accomplish to achieve it? Once the objectives are defined the strategy is simple.

          The last step(s) is to execute the strategy while adapting and overcoming as the ‘enemy’ fails to cooperate….

      • Uzziel says:

        Out-talk, out-drink, and out-fight everybody else in the damn room – been saying that for years!

      • Billy Idol says:

        Penny pincher alert!
        After Christmas, white or clear LED christmas lights will be cheaper. They can be used with an inverter.

        • For real? Billy Idol? You’ve used my patchouli soap, if so!

        • jerrytbg says:

          That’s interesting about those LED lights Billy…
          The fact that they are DC driven, typically less than 3V,
          suggests to me the converter in the circuit can be bypassed thus eliminating the need for an inverter…ummmm

          I’m going to take one of those apart and find out…
          has anyone else looked into this? Until you posted that, I never gave it a thought cause I already have the fixtures on the boat..

      • Proftel says:

        My sister , my parents were already in the U.S. , I never wanted to go there moreover, not in Europe , much less in that huge rock that call Australia … Kkkkkkkkkkkkkkk Kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk is cold .
        To see decadent people, a lot of junk , I’m right here .
        Always opt for insane places where there is vegetation and fish to eat ( I recognize that walks rare thing ) .
        I do not like leaving the house , as much as I travel is 1.200km (roundtrip 2,400 Km ) of Goias to Sao Paulo ( state to state – between Annapolis and Mongagua ) . motorcycle .
        Path do in 13 hours .
        I read a lot about shit that is agarando there ( snow) and not only there, North Africa too, I feel sorry for you do not have the resources for that.
        Nature is charging too much damage that the Northern Hemisphere did to her .
        God wants us in the Southern Hemisphere have done little damage but , we’re screwed Kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk .

        You consciously , eat a fish from the Radioactive Sea on the West Coast or a fish ” healed” by the Britsh Petrolium the east coast ?

        Nothing at all !

        Cool will even eat CHICKEN , Chinese!

        Ede fed pig shit !

        hehe !

        This is America!
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      • As Hank Jr. said…..a country boy will survive!

      • Pat in Florida says:

        It’s funny how many prepper guys probably think their whole idealogy is definitely going to make them a hero and chick magnet someday.
        Let’s be honest.. many people think you are kooks and a potential threat.. and there’s a very real chance that will never change.

      • CameronD says:

        Yep. In my lifetime, whenever I broke down or had an accident, the ones that stopped to help were the guys in pickup trucks, not the guys in BMWs.

      • Anonymous says:

        ROFLMAO, the guy who thinks he know it all and has divine inspiration is not anyone I personally would trust or want hear me. A few skills in crafting does not make you a warrior or a survivalist. But I do love how many people agree with been a redneck is some kind of magical groups.

        Herd mentality is what rednecks will bring to the party, I for one LOL want no part of emotionally children with laughable skills.

    2. “A country boy can survive” Hank JR

      • Unreconstructed Southron says:

        And a country girl can make you glad you do.

        • Scout says:

          Here’s something for you country boys and girls.

          SHTF Natural Cures – (Seeds you should plant)

          DETAILS

          Angelica Angelica archangelica
          Angelica has a long tradition of use as a general tonic herb for women, children, and the elderly. It is said to strengthen the heart and provide an antidote against general debility. According to legend, Angelica was revealed in a dream by an angel to cure the plague. All parts of the plant were believed effective against evil spirits, and Angelica was held in such esteem that it was called ‘The Root of the Holy Ghost.’ In America it was used by the Iroquois and other tribes in ceremonial medicine, and in traditional lore an infusion of smashed roots was used as wash to remove ghosts from the house.

          NOTE The fresh root of Angelica is not edible, said to be poisonous. Do not use while pregnant or breastfeeding without consulting your doctor.

          Boneset Eupatorium perfoliatum
          Boneset gets its name from its ability to “break bone fever.” Used by North American Indians for stomach problems, colds, and fevers, in addition to arthritis and rheumatic ailments. Boneset has also been used to treat influenza, and is said to alleviate pain and reduce fever associated with such imbalance. European settlers used it as a cure-all. Boneset’s odor is weak, but its taste is extremely bitter.

          NOTE Boneset is toxic in high doses.

          Calendula Calendula officinalis
          The flower petals of the Calendula plant have been used for medicinal purposes since at least the 12th century. Native to Mediterranean countries, Calendula is now cultivated across the globe. Calendula is typically added to salves and other topical preparations and has been shown to speed the healing of wounds, where it appears to have anti-inflammatory, antiviral, and antibacterial effects.

          Chamomile Matricaria recutita
          It is said that the Egyptians dedicated Chamomile to their sun god and valued it over all other herbs for its healing qualities. Due to its sedative and relaxing properties Chamomile was an ingredient in some love potions of the middle ages. Chamomile flowers are used in alternative medicine as an anodyne, anti-inflammatory, antispasmodic, nervine, stomachic, tonic, and vasodilator. The anti-inflammatory properties make it good for rheumatism, arthritis, and other painful swellings.

          Echinacea Echinaceae purpurea
          Echinacea has been used in North America for more than 400 years to treat infections and wounds, and as a general “cure-all.” Today, people use Echinacea to shorten the duration of the common cold and flu and reduce symptoms, such as sore throat (pharyngitis), cough, and fever. Many herbalists also recommend echinacea to help boost the immune system and help the body fight infections. Echinacea is well known for its anti-viral, anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, and anti-inflammatory properties.

          Feverfew Chrysanthemum parthenium
          Feverfew was first introduced to North America by European settlers in the 17th century, and has long been used to treat headaches and inflammation. Especially renowned as a treatment for migraines, Feverfew has also been used for menstrual problems such as cramping and irregularity. It can also be taken for problems such as joint pain and rheumatism.

          NOTE Feverfew should not be used during pregnancy because of the stimulant action on the womb. The fresh leaves may cause mouth ulcers in sensitive people.

          Mullein Verbascum olympicum
          The Greeks, Romans, British and Native Americans have all used Mullein to treat a number of respiratory conditions, from a mild cough to bronchitis and asthma. The dried stalks of Mullein have also been used as torches. The flowers can be used to create bright yellow or green dyes, which were used by the ancient Romans to color hair, according to “Healing Teas” by Marie Nadine Antol. Greek mythology holds that Ulysses carried Mullein to protect himself from the evil Circe. For these purposes the leaves can be smoked or used to prepare tea.

          NOTE Mullein causes allergic reactions in a small population.

          Nettle Urtica dioica
          In medieval Europe Stinging nettle was used as a diuretic (to rid the body of excess water) and to treat joint pain. Stinging nettle has been used for hundreds of years to treat painful muscles and joints, eczema, arthritis, gout, and anemia. Today, many people use it to treat urinary problems during the early stages of an enlarged prostate, for urinary tract infections, for hay fever, or in compresses or creams for treating joint pain, sprains and strains, tendonitis, and insect bites.

          NOTE Do not use while pregnant or breastfeeding without consulting your doctor. Stinging nettle should never be applied to an open wound. Be careful when handling the nettle plant because touching it can cause an allergic rash. Occasional side effects include mild stomach upset, fluid retention, and hives or rash (mainly from topical use).

          Pleurisy Root Asclepias tuberosa
          Some Native American legends tell of the roots being used as a body wash for lifting and running strength. Also used as a drug in chant lotion, and as a ceremonial emetic. Asclepias tuberosa has a long history of use as a valuable alternative medicine and is one of the most important of the indigenous American species. Butterfly Weed is used internally in the treatment of diarrhea, dysentery, chronic rheumatism, and as an expectorant. It has a specific action on the lungs, making it a valuable medicinal herb in all chest complaints and in the treatment of many lung diseases.

          Skullcap Scutellaria lateriflora
          Skullcap was well known among the Cherokee and other Native American healers as a strong emmenagogue and female medicinal herb. Today Skullcap is recognized as a powerful medicinal herb, used in alternative medicine as an anti-inflammatory, antispasmodic, slightly astringent, emmenagogue, febrifuge, nervine, sedative and tonic.

          NOTE Should be used with some caution since in overdose it causes giddiness, stupor, confusion and twitching. Skullcap has been linked to liver damage, though it is suspected that the source of damage was actually from Germander being substituted for Skullcap. Use in moderation and avoid if you have liver problems.

          Spikenard Aralia racemosa
          Spikenard was a popular herb among American Indians, who gathered its pleasantly scented roots for a variety of medicinal uses. Herbalists record that the Cherokees drank Spikenard tea for backache and that the Shawnees used it to treat gas pains, coughs, asthma, and chest pains. Other tribes gave the tea to women in labor to make childbirth swifter and less painful. The Micmacs reportedly applied a salve of spikenard to cuts and wounds, while the Ojibwas used the root in a poultice for healing broken bones. Early settlers used the juice from the dark purple berries and oil from the seeds. Medical practitioners in the 19th century prescribed the root to treat gout, rheumatism, syphilis, and other diseases in which it was deemed necessary to “purify the blood.” More recently, Spikenard has gained popularity as an adaptogen, sharing many common properties with its close relative American Ginseng.

          Tobacco Nicotiana rustica
          Nicotiana rustica is also known as Sacred Tobacco, Mapacho, Aztec tobacco and a host of other names. It originated in Mexico but was widely cultivated throughout the Americas by native peoples for ceremonial purposes. Mapacho is considered very sacred by Amazonian shamans and is employed alone or in combination with other plants in shamanic practices. Some shamans drink the juice of tobacco leaves alone as a source of visions. Mapacho is used extensively in healing practices and is considered a medicine, not a health hazard, when used properly. The Tukanoan peoples of the Vaupés often rub a decoction of the leaves briskly over sprains and bruises. Amongst the Witotos and Boras, fresh leaves are crushed and poulticed over boils and infected wounds. Tikuna men mix the crushed leaves with the oil from palms to rub into the hair to prevent balding. The Jivaros take tobacco juice therapeutically for indisposition, chills and snake bites. In many tribes tobacco snuff may be employed medicinally for a variety of ills, particularly to treat pulmonary ailments.

          Sorry for the long post, it is new to many of us.

          • I use most of them and thanks for posting these…most folks need this knowledge…

          • InsanityISContagious says:

            Take a lesson from the South American tribes and add some of the “bad” plants available to your repertoire as a back-up plan. In a SHTF scenario, if they overrun you, make ém regret it…no antidote….just make sure you and your party learn the difference.

          • John W. says:

            Very interesting post. You seem to know your stuff, and that will come in handy if things do go down the toilet.

          • Sigi says:

            A good start, but anyone planning to use wild plants needs to get familiar with them now. Read up in depth on what grows in your area, how to use it safely and what “look alikes” may be present and how to tell the difference. In our area there is great deal of wild yarrow, wild celery and wild carrot. They all resemble hemlock which can kill you. Also, there is an allergy common to wild celery and wild carrot which could make you sick. You need to know what you can tolerate pre- need. If you can go to an allergist that may be a good short cut- rule out what you can now.

      • Peterson says:

        Did you even read the article?

    3. PuppyPrepper says:

      I love every word Selco utters. This is real life-and-death information, not fantasy Rambo stuff. I happily subscribed to his online course and get updates like these regularly. I pray he has access to the resources he needs to make his next SHTF event less brutal for him and his family.

    4. Ugly says:

      This is why ‘prepping stuff’ needs to be a simple and realistic as possible. It is survival, not a luxury. I have seen lists needed that would require several U-Hauls to load up. Here is mine:

      1. Food basics–rice, wheat, potato flakes, beans, freeze dried, canned goods, and spices to go with that stuff.

      2. water. not just storage, but where to get it.

      3. Defense stuff.

      4. Shelters and mobility.

      5. Community and barter is possible.

      Ultimately, the good news is that God knows exactly how each and everyone of us will die. Therefore, seek that guidance daily. Good luck. We all will need it.

      Also, good article from a person that has been there and seen human nature in real….

      • Barn Cat says:

        Add:

        Ways to heat your home and cook your food.

        Something to use as a toilet. If you live in town, think long and hard about where you want to dump that stuff. I think east of where you live would be best and 3 AM would be the safest time. And no, you can’t have an outhouse if you live in town. You’d just be advertising that you’re alive and have food.

        Think about the situations where you’d use force. For me, if someone is trying to break in and I warned them to stop, I’d shoot to kill if they didn’t.

        For me, bugging out is not an option. I live in a state with 4 month winters. We’d freeze to death or starve if we bugged out. I’d take my chances against looters. I wouldn’t see any other real choice.

        • Nebraska says:

          @ Barn Cat
          Im in severe winters too, but still many options

        • newbee says:

          Barn Cat.. I am with you on staying put. And will only bug out if I cant hold the trolls back. I have been filling all my used milk jugs, kitty liter jugs and old liquid laundry soap jugs with water and marking them flush water so we can still use our toilets as long as possible. (If its yellow let it mellow if its brown flush it down). If you can share with me have you fortified your house in any way for security. I am trying to think of different things I can do I have some ideas but always looking for different ideas?

          • Facebook Page says:

            Key West Motto to this day.

          • Barn Cat says:

            I have a long piece of wood to block the sliding glass kitchen door shut. I already have 3/4″ plywood sheets that I could put inside in front of the door to stop bullets.

            I plan on putting a few cinder blocks between the living room door and the closet wall. Once they’re in place it would be difficult to force the door open.

            I plan on blocking windows on the inside with plywood so they don’t give off light at night. In the morning I can slide it out of the way.

            For toilet water, if you can afford it, get 2 55 gallon aquarium tanks and put them on a metal stand. That would hold 110 gallons in an area only 4 feet long.

            You could also try to make your house unlived in by dumping coke bottles and junk mail in your yard. Then pour water over the junk mail so it doesn’t blow away.

            I’ve also thought of taping a note on the outside door. Something like, “When you get back, come over to our house. Signed, Uncle Jim”

            • John_Allen says:

              In the gravest extreme, spray paint in day-glo orange, Hemorrhagic Plague : Quarantined on all 4 sides of your home. Won’t harm your resale value at all when we’re in a survival situation.

              Buy as many industrial strength fire extinguishers as you can afford. When there’s no NYFD to call they’re your best friend. Wholesale quantities of baking soda, as sold by Costco etc, smother small fires before they can become large fires.

              3M has Scotch Guard window security film, which product line they invented. Sort of like windshield glass in a vehicle. Glass can still be broken but it doesn’t disperse into 89 pieces. Not ballistic resistant but jewelry stores and banks use it because it thwarts smash and grab.

              Can’t remember the manufacturer but they make industrial and commercial fencing. Heavy wire in slot shapes, clearances too small between the slots for a cutting tool heavy enough to cut the wire to be fitted in. It’s only “better than nothing” security if you can’t afford to do what government does to protect its installations. Keeps them from cutting through your walls ifn they really want to get in.

              Steel plate on your front porch in front of your door. Conspicuous sign saying: Electrified at random intervals. Zzzzzzttttt. doesn’t hafta be hooked up to anything; won’t be any power shtf anyway. Fear factor. Play with their minds.

            • Mountain Trekker says:

              Barn Cat, I can tell you don’t live in Wyoming. You would have to take those cinder blocks from the living room and put them on the junk mail in the front yard if you didn’t want it to blow away. I Don’t think that 3/4 inch plywood is going to stop many bullets, so don’t stand behind it. Trekker Out. Keep On Prepping!

              • Barn Cat says:

                How many sheets would I need? I have 10 or so.

                • Paranoid says:

                  About 5-6 would stop most HP pistol bullets, things like .22 and .38. All of them would not stop a FMJ rifle. Nor will a hollow cement block. About 2 rds from a 223 turns a cement block into sand. If the SHTF sidewalk blocks of concrete, sand bags, and dirt are your best bet.

                • old guy says:

                  My old Russian 762×54 with steel jacket ammo will shoot through a 1/2 inch thick steel bulldozer blade. I don’t think 10 sheets of plywood will stop it? dirt concrete is the best way to stop a bullet.

            • John W. says:

              You also need to pin the slider door closed or it can be lifted out of it’s track. If they really want in they will just break the glass. Wish I could afford the House Armor windows. Pretty tough to get through.

            • nosuchuser says:

              Just FYI 3/4 ply isn’t bullet resistant. Won’t stop 22LR…

          • sixpack says:

            I’ve been toying with the idea of using bricks or cinder blocks to help increase the bullet-blocking ability of my external walls. My idea is to mortar in a cinder block wall, up to the bottom of my windows. I could put planters on top of it to make it look decorative, hiding the fact that it would give me a little edge against gunfire. It would HELP protect me as I crouch to peer out my windows or crawl to other places in the house.

            Siding, sheathing and drywall are not bulletproof in the least. I think adding a short brick or cinder block wall would help and it would be cheap if I used salvaged bricks or cinder blocks.

            • If you use cinder/cement blocks to stop bullets you want to fill them up with cement/rebar…they’ll last a bit longer…I used blocks for target practice at about 100yrds w/.22 and we could smash them to pieces in a short while(at 100ft a .22 will do damage to a block even faster so the closer one is to your block wall…you get the picture)…imagine what the .308 did to them at 350yrds with one or two hits…and that was with hunting rounds…steel core would likely punch through better…and forget it if someone has a .50 belt fed or even a .338/45/70/’06 or most any heavy bullet…theres a reason they invented and use sandbags…much better at stopping rounds and pieces of debris…blocks would be better than being open but don’t put too much faith in blocks we don’t want to lose you :)
              Oh and Barncat….22 will usually go through 3/4 ply wood at about that same 100yrds so the bigger rounds will not even slow down…again sandbags…be safe!

            • Sixpack…you could use bags stacked inside walls like the blocks you mentioned and then plaster over them like an adobe wall creating a bullet resistant wall and at the same time having it look better…just a thought :)

              • sixpack says:

                jerrybg, I was planning on putting them OUTSIDE, along the real exterior wall, like a facade, something that looked insignificant, yet was effective in giving me someplace to protect me against light to moderate gunfire.

                • John_Allen says:

                  Hesco barriers from wiki. British company invented them.

                  Heavy wire frame, gunnysack fabric covering, filled with dirt. US .mil uses them overseas for protection against ballistic and light artillery (mortar) attacks. Stackable. Ugly but they work. Preferably filled by front end loader or a dozen green carders looking for a day”s work.

                  Am thinking of camouflaging them as foundation beds, filling them with dirt or gravel.
                  Mass is your friend, as in thickness. The central problem is how much weight will the soil around your home bear without collapsing your foundation?

                  If York Castle, built to be defensible, couldn’t stop determined attackers no home would stop same for very long. But unlike Edward Longshanks, desperate sheep won’t have the resources or will to lay siege to you for weeks on end.

                • jerrytbg says:

                  I thought the whole object was to make it look like you haven’t done anything…cause on the outside you’ll be able to see that something was done…just my thoughts on it. fwiw

                • old guy says:

                  better to make trapdoors in your floor so you can get down into the crawl space. Let them come inside and when you can locate their position from the footsteps shoot them from below. maybe dig a escape tunnel from your crawl space also?

                • Mountain Trekker says:

                  Oldguy, you been reading my mind. Trekker Out.

            • Hunter says:

              Sixpak-

              Here’s something ‘vaguely’ related to bullet-proof masonry.
              ..likely, wouldn’t pass our building permit codes here in “Absurdistan”, but if you possessed some remote (wilderness) acreage w/ a nearby stream/water-source, one could construct a decent cabin/bug-out hovel, if deemed necessary.

              http://www.naturalblaze.com/2013/12/impenetrable-fireproof-house-made-from.html

              ..unfortunately, this post w/ link will likely stay “QUARANTINED”…for ages, or at least until the current thread-line is worn out and replaced w/ another.

              Hope you manage to catch it………..

            • gone under says:

              You could dry stack the blocks without mortar on a concrete foundation and then fill them up with concrete. Sand bags behind them would stop a 3006, and a 338 Lapua if it had to go through the 8 inch concrete filled blocks and sand bags.

        • SilverSax says:

          In-city toilet/waste-dumping:
          Pee down the drains as long as they’re working.
          No. 2? – WalMart bags!

          • Billy Idol says:

            Find a place to dispose of the Wal-Mart bags.

            • sixpack says:

              …like a small pit with a few shovels full of something caustic? I found an article or two about decomposition. First, about they myth of putting lime on organic material—

              https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22030481

              Recent casework in Belgium involving the search for human remains buried with lime, demonstrated the need for more detailed understanding of the effect of different types of lime on cadaver decomposition and its micro-environment. Six pigs (Sus scrofa) were used as body analogues in field experiments. They were buried without lime, with hydrated lime (Ca(OH)(2)) and with quicklime (CaO) in shallow graves in sandy loam soil in Belgium and recovered after 6 months of burial. Observations from these field recoveries informed additional laboratory experiments that were undertaken at the University of Bradford, UK. The combined results of these studies demonstrate that despite conflicting evidence in the literature, hydrated lime and quicklime both delay the decay of the carcass during the first 6 months. This study has implications for the investigation of clandestine burials and for a better understanding of archaeological plaster burials. Knowledge of the effects of lime on decomposition processes also has bearing on practices involving burial of animal carcasses and potentially the management of mass graves and mass disasters by humanitarian organisations and DVI teams.”

              Second, the use of lye in a pit seems to be a good way to dispose of organic waste…if it works on bodies, it will work on human waste.

              http://beforeitsnews.com/survival/2013/03/guest-post-disposal-of-human-corpses-part-two-2467640.html

              Just saying…

              • Budvar says:

                The burying of the pigs by Bradford Uni was in very acidic peaty soil on open moorland. I know the site well, as it was not far from where I was born. It was originally built by the RAF during WWII as a radar installation, and then became an experimental research station (allsorts of crap went on there I’m told). The site was then bought by Bradford Uni back in the 70s, and last summer all the buildings were pulled down (asbestos and the like).

                I think the object of the exercise in covering dead things with lime was to stop things like plague and cholera leaching into ground water, and not really to aid in decomposition.

          • ScoutMotto says:

            Build a porta-loo using a 6-gallon plastic can with a seat attached. I have a place in the garage where I could set up a makeshift toilet booth if necessary.

          • jerrytbg says:

            Make no mistake…
            city sewage systems will not work for more than a day or two!!!
            It will backup into your house and make it unlivable…
            Best to disconnect ASAP… if you can’t, fill every drain with concrete…
            Thin about it!

        • PrepShepherd says:

          Dump it on your compost…before you say that is unsanitary…your may already eating it, if you buy food from the grocery. I worked in the sanitation field and the Treatment plants sell the solids to Farmers who use it on thier fields. Now I’m not sure if its for just fields for livestock food or human food, its not treated only the water is treated then dumped into a creek stream or what ever. They put lime on the solids, which just drys it out, but that inst likey going to kill all the germs in it. Note that some food is shipped from mexico and I can tell you they do use human waste on their crops and many other countries. Also note that many things go into treatment plants that arent to safe to be puting on fields….

          • gone under says:

            It is spread on fields for crops like alfalfa, or silag. Most of the time, depending on the State, it has to be SETTLED IN PONDS AND DRIED OR DE WATERED USEING A CENTRIFUGE OR A BELT PRESS.efing caps is sticking, im not RETYPING THIS.

          • The Old Coach says:

            One of the less sanitary features of Chinese agriculture is the use of “night soil” on their crops. Spreads disease, helps disease organisms develop better ways of making us sick, etc., etc. Not for me.

            • PrepShepherd says:

              One of my Gardens is on the drain field, but since its under ground, the gravel and dirt should filter it and not likey to reach the surface (less their was a break or really wet). On the plus side when its dry its usually the last place to get bone dry. Its my own so I’m not to worried about it plus like I said most of it should filter out.

              • PrepShepherd says:

                Also its just the grey water and not the solids since they stay in the Septic Tank. The solids take longer to break down, like I said you can compost if you wanted. Its your own, so for me it doesn’t bother me much, then agian working in that field of work you had to build up a stomach for it (the first week was horrible lol). Power or not toilets will work long as you put water in them…less your in the city and the works gum up. I mean SHTF your still going to need to dispose of the watse in the tank……

                • gone under says:

                  A city’s sewage treatment plant may use Raw Sewage Pumps to “lift” the influent from the headworks/screening area to the first stage of treatment which is the primary settling tanks/ponds. We had backup gensets with enough fuel to run the pumps for about a week. Quite a few smaller systems (ours was 45mgd) use a gravity fed pond system and would be able to handle a loss of power for a long time, but would not be able to clorinate(CL2) the process and de clorinate the effluent(SO2).

          • A fella I know named Joe Jenkins wrote a book called Humanure…different kinda humor in it but its a good read on this subject…hes used it for decades on food crops and had zero/zilch/nada problems…I composted it myself and used it with the same results…one of the biggest problems weve created in farming is we have tried to remove ourselves from the nutrient circle God created and we suffer for it…of course it has to be done right(not like china/mexico) but the chemical companies/govicorp want us to believe it cant be done right…otherwise we might and then whoed buy their poison?…and make no mistake they do care!

            • gone under says:

              If sewage is digested in a container like your septic tank, (methane by product can run a genset) Then dried on the ground, it “could” be used as a secondary crop soil conditioner. Why bother when there is so many other ways to treat, fertilize, and condition your soil without the potential risks.

              • With respect my friend there are not risks…once you compost something its harmless…simple common sense will keep problems from becoming…well,problems…my only point is a lot of the cure for many of mans ills is getting back to how nature intended the problem to be handled not how govt demands it be handled…once composted for a couple years there isn’t any risk factor…again we are talking compost not china nightsoil methods of dumping the bucket on the spinach each morning :)…we are also talking about what to do in a SHTF situation…

          • nosuchuser says:

            Be very, very careful following this advice! You MUST compost human waste properly to kill all potential parasites. We’re predators and can carry a wonderfully diverse variety of harmful parasites which can kill you…

      • Mcdave says:

        I like the “keep it simple” approach.
        Ultimately, we may have to bug out or become transient, (see Grapes of Wrath) and may only be able to take with us our skills and wits.
        It sounds impossible, but our forefathers were able to make it with very little material or equipment. Mostly they just had big balls and were willing and able to do what it takes to live another day.
        I think we could learn from them, and I think that is where I will need to take my prepping efforts.
        Sometimes more is less, and vise versa.
        Faith, Dignity, Pride and Determination will probably serve us better than anything.

        • John_Allen says:

          Martha and George Washington had quite an impressive home and cottage industries going at Mount Vernon. Approximately 8,000 acres fronting on a navigable river. Plus a few hundred highly skilled indentured whites and field slaves to do all the skilled and backbreaking things. We will have neither thousands of acres nor skilled help. MV had a hand pumped well. And the Potomac about half a mile away down a very steep hill. Even the aristocrats of that day were adept at living in the field. Much more so than most of us are.

      • Billy Idol says:

        Don’t expect gadgets to make up for stupidity. The U.S. military seems to be falling into this trap, and it will one day cost many a heavy price.

      • lastmanstanding says:

        Your list is nearly exactly as mine and I know that you have seeds as well.

        I will barter. I do it now. However…in my plan, I an not planning to barter. We are preparing to go it on our own with supplies. We will not be looking to anyone for anything. That may change as time goes by.

        One needs to survive one day at a time.

        as always…Stand with God and “don’t go down without one helluva fight”

        • Barn Cat says:

          I wouldn’t barter with anyone. They could be someone who’s running out of food and looking to kill you for yours. Or maybe they just want your wife or daughter. I plan on avoiding all people from outside my house for as long as I can. I think any hungry person is potentially dangerous. And EVERYBODY with hungry kids is 10 times as dangerous.

    5. The Year 2525 says:

      #1. We are already in a SHTF situation. In case some of us have asleep for the past 5 years, “WE HAVE A GODLESS COMMUNIST IN THE WHITE HOUSE!”.

      #2 Our biggest city, NY/NY just elected a full blown Marxist Radical as Mayor. Our 2nd. City, Chicago, already has one.

      #3. The Fed continues to steal the Middle Classes wealth though QE. Thus putting our whole economy at risk.

      #4. The Federal Government is gearing up for Civil War through the building of an internal DHS “Army”.

      #5 Only God knows what the future will bring but considering the immorality of our present day Leaders/Rulers,…….we’re screwed!

      • Peterson says:

        Focus on looking after yourself, stop watching the wheels on the bus to round and round and you’ll feel better about the situation.

      • Government Guy says:

        If this is SHTF it’s not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. Merry Christmas Everyone!

        While they last. . .

      • Facebook Page says:

        This ain’t SHIF. If you think that you are a fucking idiot.. yes we are in the beginning of a finical collapse. SHIF isn’t here yet. If this is hard life you been living in a dream.

        • Facebook's Gay Father says:

          Try learning how to spell and write in English before you call anyone a f*cking idiot, bozo!

          You’re nothing but a lawless conjob Facebook. How many years have you and your family served in jail.

          The only tough times you’ve been through is when your cellmate wanted a little “love’n”. So stop trying to impress everybody here how macho you are when you’re nothing but a “bend over” punk

          • Facebook Page says:

            I would be the fucker not the Fuckee.

          • California Girl says:

            Did you not read in Facebook’s previous post that he was injured in service and has been in rehab? Don’t you think that might have something to do with his typing or communication skills? He says he’s been through hell, but would go through it again if it could keep someone in the next generation from having to go through it at all. And after stating that he was given many thumbs down! Usually, when he talks tough he’s calling out other people on this site for their bravado and telling them to walk the walk, not just talk the talk. He’s a lot tougher than I am.

          • nosuchuser says:

            He actually has a point you know…

            If you think this sucks you have no idea how bad life can get.

        • SilverSax says:

          Man, you just love hurting people and beating them down, don’t you? Don’t you have any compassion or mercy in your heart?
          Too bad.

          • braveheart says:

            SilverSax, Peterson is just another useless troll. Trolls don’t know what mercy or compassion is. braveheart

            • Mountain Trekker says:

              Braveheart, just wondering, was your wife born in Cuba or was her parents from Cuba. Any way the reason I ask is that my neighbor across the road who comes here in late summer and stays through hunting season, and then goes back to Florida for the winter, had a lady friend with him who was born in Cuba, they had us over for supper the other night and she was tell me about when she was a child in Cuba. Came to the US when she was 8, after Castro first came to power, the people were told that they now had freedom, she said her father was in a bar and he said Viva Batista, and for that was sent to prison for six years, she said the prison was a large castle and when she use to walk there to see her dad, the walls leading to the castle had blood spatter all over them where people were executed by firing squads. After her dad got out of prison they came to America. Long story short! Sometime we don’t realize how good we have it, and how quick things can go bad. Trekker Out.Si vis pacem, para bellum!

              • braveheart says:

                MT, thank you for the inquiry. Yes, mrs. braveheart was from a town called Madruga in Matanzas province, only 30 miles from Havana. She came from a well-educated family. I have no reason to doubt the story your friend told you. My wife lost half of her family to Castro’s butchers in the same manner. The current dictator Raul Castro has blood on his hands. He is supposedly responsible personally for the deaths of 1000-2000 innocent Cubans. There is another sinister figure in that regime named Ramiro Valdes who is supposedly responsible for the deaths of my wife’s family. If I ever meet him, I’ll be only too happy to put 2 bullets in his skull. MOLON LABE braveheart

                • Mountain Trekker says:

                  Braveheart didn’t mean to probe, just wanted to share some info. My friend and his lady have already left for the winter, back to Florida. Sure wish I could have spent some more time talking to her, she was very interesting. Trekker Out. Molon Labe braveheart!

            • Facebook Page says:

              Brave Heart SS was referring to me not Peterson.

              And Silversax No there is not much compassion left in this heart. And its not that I like hurting other feeling it is I do not care if I do.

              And mercy completely out. And when it come to a beat down It what works beat them down to build them up.

          • gone under says:

            @ Siver sax..Pain killers make some people angry.

            • Facebook Page says:

              They make me very happy actually.

              But my current attudude is from having time to look at the world in a little more detail then I have been able to in a long time. ANd it is even more dipressing then I remembered.

        • Billy Idol says:

          Have to agree with FBP. The “collapse” in 2008 was nothing. We have yet to see the bad part.

          • HD74Man says:

            @BillyI…RE: The “collapse” in 2008 was nothing. We have yet to see the bad part.

            People think the national debt stands at $17 trillion when in reality it’s $217 trillion comprising future unfunded Medicaid, Medicare, and SS liabilities. A financial apocalypse so enormous in scope you can’t even comprehend the dimension. Won’t even go into the big bank derivative issues. And so the question for all of us here remains: when does the match light this ticking time-bomb. It’s a hard call.

            • sixpack says:

              “when does the match light this ticking time-bomb”

              I suppose we won’t know until we see the spark…

            • nosuchuser says:

              Assuming that the claim of $217 trillion of future liabilities is true you should ask the following questions: 1) where does this number come from, 2) is this a reputable source, 3) what are the underlying assumptions behind this number, 4) what is the time frame of payment, and finally 5) what impact does this payment represent (as a % of the federal budget)…

              My investigations indicate that most of these ‘apocalypse numbers’ are created to sell an agenda… An agenda which doesn’t have the best interests of our Republic or our Citizens at heart…

              • Paul Lake says:

                The “$200 Trillion plus” number comes from Professor Lawrence Kotlikoff of the University of Boston, also a candidate for the 2012 Republican nomination for president (pretty much totally ignored by the MSM). It represents the combination of actual current debt plus the present value of current obligations (pension, medical, etc commitments.) It is the amount of money that you would need to have invested today to generate the stream of earnings required to fulfil those future commitments. The analogy is like the amount of money you would personally need to purchase an annuity which would produce income for the rest of your life, exactly the same as a private pension system being required by law to be “funded”, ie to have enough money in the kitty to be able to meet the monthly pension checks going to all the current and future retirees, taking into account the ongoing contributions of the employees and employer.
                As he points out, the number is beyond manageable. It will likely be “handled” by stealth default, in other words, a combination of inflation, means testing, and other forms of reneging on commitments.
                The federal government takes in about $2.5 Trillion in taxes each year, but the unfunded liabilies are growing at about $5 Trillion per year.

        • John W. says:

          As long as Wal Mart is open and the NFL game is on who cares about some SHTF. Life is good and Obammy loves us.

      • MY ANGLE says:

        Let it all collapse.

        Then we can wipe the books clean, purge all the commie red tape laws and fire up the fema camps and watch the liberals turn into skin and bones.

        A good WW3 is needed to weed out the planet.
        You know they are planning it.

        I’m basically on my last 25 years or so…so I’ll enjoy watching it all go down.
        Yeah…I’m the guy that will come out on top no matter what the income.

        Want a job, a life, wealth, security and all the good like stuff.
        TURN OFF THE FUCKING TV.
        I get up at 5 am 7 days a week and study and better my career.

        If you are known for unfucking things… all will be well, no matter what.

        Better hide all your shit and your wealth.
        Obama’s private army will come a knocking one day with a drone on call delivered right to your roof top.

        SO…

        Buy silver and “hoard it”… FUCK THEM…HOARDING SILVER AND GOLD.
        Yeah….like how they term that. But what’s in their vaults.

        Got it?

        My final backup plan is to eat the boomers for lunch.
        Or boil one down to feed to the dog. ha

        I’m so joking here..but you never know.

        I’m suck a troll today.

        Later guy.

        And.. Fuck you Obama! We’re counting the days until your beige ass is out of office.

        • lonelonmum says:

          Careful there as the homeless are already being sent to FEMA camps! The MSM propangda against the crime of poverty means that noone seems to be standing up for them.

          I have posted before how the genuine SHTF can mess a person up mentally for life. My own experience is only second hand via my ex, no longer capable of being a decent Dad due to the demons that chase him.

          Pestilence is no joke. Madagascar is fighting a bubonic plague outbreak currently in it’s lowlands. The disease is normally haboured in the high altitude jungles, but the fear after a couple hundred cases is that it well spread to the overcrowded prisons and from there cause an epidemic. The prisons are currently doing their best to purge the black rats which act as a vector for the plague carrying flea.

          The USA currently has a few cases of plague every year, which are kept under control by good pest control measures, modern medicine and general sanitation. Once these are gone so is the barrier to the spread of a disease which it is believed wiped out one third of global humanity and in doing so ended feudalism in Europe during the middle ages.

          I very, very rarely here anyone state how they intend to control the spread of vermin, despite all the awful stories from the first world war of body lice in the trenches & the regular outbreaks of the humble head louse in schools. We all know that places like New York fight a regular battle with bed bugs. Dichotomous earth is one way of killing insect vermin and at the moment is cheap to purchase. If you make sure it’s food grade then you can protect your preps.

          A good cat or dog may help keep down mice and rats, as will good garbage control. My father’s family in Africa store all grains, flours etc in metal containers – too many medics in the family to tolerate these critters in their homes, contaminating their food.

          Out in the garden the humble snail/slug does not just much your food, they can carry lungworm, so effective pest control measures here are a good idea.

          Learn to make your own soap and spirit alcohol for sanitisation and basic hygiene.

          Finally those Argentinians and Zimbaweans I have met all counsel against total rural homestead isolation as a gang can torture a family undisturbed for DAYS in these circumstances. Truly monsters roam amongst us. Many farmers in these circumstances moved their families to the cities for safety after hearing awful tales of the fates of some of their neighbours.

          • sixpack says:

            Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth kills bedbugs. I know, because I did it. They were going to declare the house unfit and bull-doze it. The infestation had been ongoing for a couple of years, because the elderly gentleman didn’t know bedbugs could be gotten rid of. We threw out everything that couldn’t be sanitized and spread DE everywhere else. The entire house looked like we had a big flour fight.

            At the end of two weeks, the bedbugs were gone. They have not returned in the last 3 years.

            Now, for the lice. My sister in-law had several bouts with her 3 kids coming home from school with head lice. The prescribed remedy for it is expensive and very toxic if used repeatedly. After some research, she bought several bottles of isopropyl alcohol and some shower caps.

            Each child was put in the bathtub and their hair/heads were saturated with the alcohol and the caps put on(obviously, no smoking or flame was allowed in the house). After 20 minutes, the caps came off and their hair was rinsed, then washed with regular shampoo and a conditioner applied and left in.

            The tub looked like someone had thrown a handful of black pepper in it. It killed the lice, the pupae and the eggs, all without another dose of poison. It should be noted that isopropyl alcohol does not leave any kind of residue when it dries. Once it is dry, it is completely gone, unlike quell lotion or RID.

            Just my 2 cents worth of experience.

            • Sigi says:

              Friends had this with their kids years ago. They covered their hair and scalps in mayonnaise. At the end of a few hours they shampooed and rinsed- no more bugs and wonderfully conditioned hair, which was a bonus for the girls. I understand it is the fat which suffocates the lice, so a deep conditioner might work as well. If nothing else a deep conditioner after the alcohol treatment you described would be a good idea.

          • Calgacus says:

            Lonlonmom I just read about Dawn dishwashing liquid being a good flea shampoo. Its the blue color of Dawn and a few drops in a bath for the pets is supposed to kill fleas.
            We have pets but dont have fleas. We do stock blue Dawn liquid because its about the best degreaser out there for the price. And the wife makes soaps but cant beat this stuff for all it does.

            My question is if you or anyone else has used this blue Dawn for fleas. I think germs and insects are going to be pretty bad when tshtf.

          • gone under says:

            Argentinians and Zimbaweans are not armed to the teeth like us ridgerunners. There is more than likely as much guns and ammo here in civilian households, than All of Africa and South American including their armies.

        • HD74Man says:

          @My Angle…Commentary is “on the money”, bro!

    6. HD74Man says:

      US culture and society are now divided into 2 camps. There are the “astute” such as the people who come to this site for info and commentary, and there are the “brain-dead” who think “Dancing with the Stars”; and what the Kardashian sluts are currently wearing for underwear today is all that really matters in this f*cked up world. For the “astute”, you can literally smell the social rot and disintegration that permeates from things like the Detroit bankruptcy, and “Flash Mob” lootings repeatedly occurring in major cities. For me, things are now so dicey, I carry my AK-47 underfolder in a case situated in the passenger leg bay next to the shift, and pack a S&W lightweight .357 in an ankle holster. Violence and chaos? Bring it on, MF’s!…And why should anyone expect anything more from a current social order based on welfare hand-outs and shit for nothing, paid for with your tax dollars and the fiat currency printed by an out of control FED which goes to a burgeoning populace of 3 world dunghole immigrants and native deadbeats who vote for the “D-RATS”. And in summation, it’s good to be HERE with those who have a clue about what is really going down. And if the country had a true majority like SHTF’ers, we wouldn’t be in the mess we’re currently in.

      • Mcdave says:

        ’06 Street Glide S.E. 103″
        Live to ride, Ride to live

        • HD74Man says:

          @McDave…’82 80ci FLHS Shovelhead; precursor to the mid-80′s HD Fat-Boy, busted down to the cases, chrome-plated, with a custom post seat, set up to look like a 50′s Duo-Glide. Ride safe, bro, and keep “The Made in the USA” flag flying!

        • Money Supply says:

          I’m so looking forward to things continuing to crash…
          Why?

          Getting a seat at a restaurant on a weekend is easy.
          There’s tons of toys… harley’s, boats, sports cars.

          Guys…we won’t see a mad max world.
          Things will just continue to get bad.
          You will see some pockets of the black rioting…

          But over-all…they will just continue to trash the currency, inflation…
          They will try and avoid hyperinflation…
          Then they will transition into their global currency and there will be a currency swap.
          Electronic and transactional. Watch bit coin..they are letting that run to see how things go. A test.

          In terms of SHTF… I don’t worry about it.
          I live in a safe part of the country.
          I converted the house to gas….even in SHTF..they will keep that flowing…as in the north east…if that stops..people will die. I have a wood stove as a backup, just in case.

          Humanity will never stop.. so the basics will always need to be supplied.. food, water, gas, energy, medical… you get the idea.

          The better prepped up you are…then you just earned the right not to worry.
          However…
          I have a worry that the currency will crash..then they will bring in “UN peace keepers”, Russian and Chinese… it will really be an invasion.

          At that point we will need to look at all our law makers and people in power as traitors. I’ll stop there.

          I do hope that Texas steps up to the place and someone can put these NWO bankers in their place. Time to end the federal reserve… and start a states currency.

          We’ll good luck.

          • Sigi says:

            Sounds a bit like the economic collapse of the USSR. They had power outages and in some of the smaller republics there were cholera outbreaks. Small cities had energy problems. The agricultural infrastructure had failed so a lot of the crops weren’t harvest, a lot of what was harvested wasn’t processed, and what was processed wasn’t all distributed. This was followed by shortages in butter and eggs. There were rationing coupons for many things. We had days in our dorm with no heat, no hot water (supplied by the same plant) but we had power and water most of the time, so we filled soup pots with water, put it on the stove and bathed with that once it was nicely warmed. We knew we were some of the lucky ones. The news over the next year did have some people using violence against others to try to get things. Many old ladies were murdered for their apartments. That said, it never went Mad Max and eventually things got back to better than USSR ‘normal.’ That said, the effects of the end of the Soviet Union are still reverberating as you can see in the demonstrations in Kyiv, Ukraine.

      • Facebook Page says:

        There are so many more levels/ camp than that.

      • arco says:

        I got a friend who has a friend, who knows a guy, who has a friend that knows a guy that is also starting to carry his AR in the trunk, despite the fact that he has to cross over into a firearm unfriendly state for work everyday along with a .380 in the glove box.

        Good idea, cause you never know when its going to HTF or where you’ll be when it does. But if you’re armed, you got a much better chance of at least getting home than most.

        • mountain man 6-1 says:

          @arco…..Yes ,just for an instructional tool ,read the book ‘Goin Home’ . It will give ya a good indication of what to expect ! If you did try to make it on your own ! ……..mm

          • arco says:

            @mm… This ‘guy’ I’m talking about has one thing on his side. He works in the northern part of the urban area. Mainly back roads and farms between his work and his house, so not much ‘city’ to have to crawl thru. Still its twenty miles, which is a long way on foot. A three day ‘survival’ pack is in the works to add to the trunk.

            Thanks for the tip, I’ll have to tell that ‘guy’ to look it up.

        • no justice says:

          I go nowhere not being armed in a vehicle. Besides walking down a deserted street in Chicago at midnight, a vehicle is a magnet to attract trouble. Summertime riot shotgun and semi-rifle and pistol, winter no shotgun. And necessary supplies, lights, batteries, blanket and extra clothes.

        • lastmanstanding says:

          They make a barrel adaptor for an AR that when attached is a jack handle.

          “don’t go down without one helluva fight”

        • Tucker says:

          A very bad idea. That guy could very easily drive into one of these new ‘checkpoint’ roadblocks that the DHS/TSA are starting to set up on certain highways – and with the infrared imaging technology these jackboots now have in their arsenal – paid for by your and my tax dollars – they could pull his car over, do a random search and find that expensive and heavily demonized AR rifle and your buddy could wind up being hauled off to jail and have his rifle confiscated by the jackboots.

          At a minimum, if this guy or anyone else insists on doing something like this – make sure you have a CB radio or, better yet, a police band scanner in your vehicle and have it turned on and tuned in – so, you can get some advance warning of a roadblock ahead and then be able to avoid it.

    7. Buzzfix says:

      A determined man with nothing to lose armed with the right knowledge is the most fierce of all warriors. At the end of the day its about how do you win not what you have to win. When all is done you’ll have realized you used everything you thought you couldn’t use to win. ;)

    8. mountain man 6-1 says:

      Yes , I can imagine shock will be the first thing to deal with . Just to hear a noise outside your window and look out just in time to see a neighbor getting shot out in the street! Then maybe see some of the gang dragging the guy’s wife and kids out of the house!! We really don’t know what we would do in that situation ?? I’ve always thought that self- preservation called for ‘Fight or Flight’ but now I realized there’s another one ,and it’s FREEZE ! So however we’re introduced into this horrific scene will set the stage for, maybe , the rest of your struggles !??……Stay Aware!…..mm

      • Selco says:

        Yes, shock is first thing to deal with.Lot of people will be lost right at the beginning because it.
        How well we are prepared (in all aspects) is important to overcome the shock.

        • Selco,

          Excellent article, thank you for sharing again.

          Our family talks about this almost daily. Although we have all the physical preps ready, we believe that being mentally prepared is the most important first step for whatever happens.

          We listened to my sister & niece a few weeks ago, when their power when out for just a few hours. They were lost, calling us constantly on their cell phones and worrying that their cellphone batteries were losing power, they had no lights or heat, they couldn’t watch their TV shows, the food in their freezer & fridge were getting warm! We couldn’t believe it — I mean we literally don’t understand that mentality at all.

          In a real grid-down, chaotic situation, electricity is the LEAST thing to worry about, so one shouldn’t worry about it now, when there is still some order.

          ~GV

      • Facebook Page says:

        Most will just hide and do nothing as their best friend is hacked up in the street. Then cry like little bitxhes as they are dragged to the street to the same pile of dead men and raped women. And children prepared for the barbecue.

        • Peterson says:

          More proof that most people around here don’t have a clue I guess huh buddy? …… bad guys will be eating good.

          • braveheart says:

            Peterson, the people on this site have a helluva lot more than a clue. they’re a lot sharper then you’ll ever be. Our community has intelligence. You’re just a useless troll, so go away.

        • TheGuy says:

          Having been in that situation but with the back up of the legal system (luxury extraordinaire)… I “fought”, up to as far as you can get away with without getting hauled in yourself, and I was shitting bricks the entire time.

          I’ve no wish to repeat it. I can’t even imagine it where the buck stope entirely with me. In some ways it would be easier (less checks on your behavior). In most it would be immeasurably harder (you’ll be outnumbered… scumbags always have friends that don’t give a flying shit about getting their hands dirty, regular people’s friends want nothing to do with the situation).

          Having said that, someone’s dragging my neighbor’s kids out to eat them, they better have an army with them.

          I won’t win. But neither will they.

        • HD74Man says:

          @FP RE: “Most will just hide and do nothing as their best friend is hacked up in the street. Then cry like little bitxhes as they are dragged to the street to the same pile of dead men and raped women. And children prepared for the barbecue”.

          You ain’t far off the marker. It’ll be like the Serb-Croatian civil war in Yugoslavia. Read an article where roving bands/gangs of Croats would bust into a house; find the male of the household with NO F*CKING GUN or anything else to defend his family; beat the sh*t out of him, cut his penis and balls off, and then rape his wife and daughters in front of him as he bled out on the floor. And the “D-Rat” politicos in this country want to eliminate the 2nd Amendment.

          • Sgt. Dale says:

            HD
            You are right. If the poor guy would have been armed he might have been able to fight these bastards off. That is why I will only give up my guns after all my ammo has gone down range. Or I’m dead.
            AIM SMALL MISS SMALL
            Sgt.

            • HD74Man says:

              @Sgt. Dale…My sentiments exactly. An assault gun would have probably sent these bastards down the road in search of easier prey. Plus this scenario is precisely the reason the thread on the disarmament of the US citizenry via the “we will pry your gun from your cold dead fingers” ideology of Lt. Col. Robert Bateman and the US military ran 810 comments. People need to read more to understand exactly the scope and dimension of the evil and depravity in the world today.

              • Sgt. Dale says:

                HD 74:
                You are right on.
                Sgt.

                • Facebook Page says:

                  I saw on many acccicaions the present of a small pistol or even a single barrel rifle was enough to make the gangs move on to a different hut to cleanse the area of a certain faith or color

                • Mountain Trekker says:

                  Facebook, very interesting please share some of the many ocassions where you saw the presents of these small weapons thwarting these gangs. You may be able to out do Selco, and make for some great reading. Trekker Out. I Can’t Wait!

                • Facebook Page says:

                  I do not think I can compare.. When I saw it I was in a well armed team. In a different Much hotter country.

                  He was a cillvin starting from a normal life and lived it.

                  I was forced to watch it and was under very very strict order to mostly avoid direct contact until our target were reached.

                  And Many times I had to stay out of the way for just the safety of my men and or the persons in my charge.

      • Peterson says:

        Like I tell Braveheart, you don’t let the fight come to your front door.

        • Sgt. Dale says:

          Lil Peter:
          You are person just looking for a fight with that kind of comment.

          Let me try to educate you. If that is possible? What he was getting at if the guy would have been armed he might have had a fighting chance to fight these bastards off or die trying. That might be a concept that you don’t understand! A man will fight, and if need be die for his family, if he is any kind of a man at all.

          You have a right to comment on this site. Stupid remarks makes it look like you are a RETARD. You are more that likely a smart guy. Our just a SMART ASS. I haven’t figured that out yet.

          You do make me think just how STUPID people in the world are.
          Sgt.

          • braveheart says:

            Sgt. Dale, good evening, sir, and I totally agree with you about Peterson. Your efforts at education would’ve been more justifiable with someone who’s not a troll. Peterson is just a useless troll, period. Your points ARE very well taken by me and the others here. I hope I never meet Peterson in person. I don’t want to think about what I’d have to do to him. braveheart

            • Sgt. Dale says:

              Braveheart:
              I’m not going to give up on Peterson. One day he will wake up, and smell the coffee. I just hope it won’t be too late to save him from himself. The best way to get rid of your enemies is to make them a friend.
              I would love to change the heart of this guy and bring him into the fold. Everyone has something to offer and I believe this guy has something to offer.
              Remember F. America, we changed his heart. I wish I knew his new handle. To see how he is doing.
              I will take him to water, but he will have to decide to drink. Like I said I’m not giving up to try and turn his heart.
              AIM SMALL MISS SMALL
              Sgt.

              • braveheart says:

                Sarge, you can do as you will with Peterson. although I respectfully disagree with it, I do respect your right to do so. It’s just that all I’ve seen and heard out of him is useless babble and his bullying of Ky Mom was especially nauseous to me. If you’re going to lead him to water, make sure you’re armed to the hilt when doing so. sorry, I don’t trust trolls any further than I could throw them. good luck. braveheart

                • Romulan says:

                  Spoken like a true DRUNK !

                • Sgt. Dale says:

                  Braveheart:
                  I agree what he said to KY Mom was B.S. and he should apologize to her for that. He is miss very guided. I will give him a chance, but like the Bible said if they won’t convert walk away from them. I will add, and help them no more.
                  Well Old friend it sound like you are MUCH MUCH better now, and it is good to hear from you.
                  Again Peterson is a troll, but just maybe he can be saved?
                  AIM SMALL MISS SMALL
                  Sgt.

                • sixpack says:

                  I think peterson is more than just an ignorant troll, I think he gets off on starting conflicts. I think he likes to harass people and revels in the attention he gets when they lash out back at his inflammatory remarks.

                  In short, he’s not here to do anything else but hurt people or make people angry. How far does the rights of someone like peterson go? Is there some point where other people have a right not to be constantly attacked?

                  Whose rights are more important…the attackER or the attackEE, ro do they both have equal rights?

          • Peterson says:

            Let the fight come to your front door then….

        • braveheart says:

          Peterson, when the f#$% have you ever given me advice on how to handle anything? go somewhere else with your bald-faced lies.

          • Peterson says:

            I pointed you to some awesome advice…. did I not? You never watched any of it did you?

            • You are a troll, Peterson. Many of us have years of reading your planned disruptions for attention, so it’s very easy to spot your type.

              With each passing post, everyone on this site will see it, too, and feel nothing but pity and anger toward your pathetic involvement on this excellent site Mac has provided.

              So post away.

              ~GV

          • Say When says:

            Good Day Braveheart,
            I have found that sometimes it is best not to argue with idiots and morons like Peterbreath. It is much more relaxing for me to just skip over his posts and those of FBPage. They are not posting anything of importance so therefore I shall not waste my valuable time reading their ignorant rants. Time will show them that maybe they should have spent more time learning what was being said on sites like this one. Don’t waste your valuable time and finger tips replying to these people. I truly believe that they get their jollies agitating people. Don’t give them the time of day. No up thumbs nor down thumbs for them, just ignore them!!!

            • buttcrackofdoom says:

              i think the quote yer lookin’ for was from mark twain”never argue with an idiot, a bystander might not be able to tell you apart”…he had another one i personally am very fond of “if you don’t read the internet, you’re uninformed, if you DO read the internet, you’re MISINFORMED”….or sumthin’ like that…..me?, i’ld like to see peterskin’s head on a stick….or at LEAST on a milk carton….

            • braveheart says:

              Say When, I know you mean well and I’ve tried ignoring trolls like Peterson in the past but they just keep on coming back. what other way could there be to stop them?

              • Say When says:

                Braveheart,
                Fools like Peterson need an audience. If you see his post just skip it. You’ve got better things to comment on than arguing with idiots. The local Amish community here in Ohio have what they call shunning. They will not talk to someone who has been shunned. If we all try it, maybe they will go away. May take time, but they need an audience.

              • Mountain Trekker says:

                Braveheart, now be honest with us. Do you prefer Peterson or Eisenkraut! Your lucky you don’t have to deal with both of them at the same time. Trekker Out. It Could Be Worse!

            • Facebook Page says:

              You just did respond to us.

            • Whiskey Tango Foxtrot says:

              Never, ever, argue with an idiot…. They will drag you down and beat you with experience…..

              WTF out

        • lower40 says:

          yea pete

          im with Sgt sometimes its hard to tell if your a smart ass or a smart guy ,i suspect your maybe both ,but on this i agree with you ,if at all possible i dont want the fight at my door ,i dont think adopting a defencive strategy is always the answer ,i think sometimes you may need to go on the offecive flush them out in smaller groups ,cut there throats while they sleep

        • Night breaker says:

          Peterson I have to agree with you on this one, in that situation you should have hidden sentrys out and a OP set up concealed to see them coming before they get to your neighborhood and engage with extreme prejudice away from your area . Forming TEAMS with your neighbors when it goes down and before it becomes kinetic.

          Other option if no team , E and E away remain locally return under cover of night set up an expedient hide and whittle their numbers down with precision long range selective targeting .
          ( it’s demorializing when your homie next to you’s head explodes in a cloud of red mist)
          Keep it up until target rich environment no longer exists .

          Been there done that in a far away place called KAFJI .

          RESIST

          III%

          Semper Fi 8541

          • gone under says:

            I live too remote for teams. I have mutual agreements with friends and “neighbors”. I do have long tough winters and a half dozen dogs. When the SHTF, the dogs ARE Man’s Best Friend, and can hear/smell someone long before we can. Remember to store food for them too.

      • Tucker says:

        Your scenario is something that I’ve also given some thought to, and I will admit that I would really dread being faced with such a decision.

        Hopefully, the neighbor in question would help me decide by having an Obama-Biden yard sign or bumper sticker on their vehicles.

        As The Outlaw Josey Wales once said: “The hell with them fellers. Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms.”

      • nosuchuser says:

        The freeze response is very real.

        Now you know why infantry troops practice ‘contact drills’. When ambushed you must do the most unnatural thing imaginable ie charging the ambush. No time to think, just go. That’s why you will hear calls of ‘contact left; contact right; etc’. They are drilled to go on right, left, forward, etc. No thought required….

        Of course I’m a sailor, not an infantryman. As a squid I always remember the words of Adm Burke “train as you fight, fight as you train”. I have seen this is real life. When under-fire it is the ‘lizard brain’ running the show. You react mostly by muscle-memory and training, higher brain functions go right out of the window when the first ‘vampire’ shows up on the scopes….

    9. Genius says:

      Iv’e read about selco for about a year now and am interested in what he has to say I just never got around to subscribing to him. It’s true you can’t be prepared for everything and cannot plan out how things are going to happen. I just gleen ideas from others and mix them in with my own ideas to try and form a well rounded plan (plan A plan B plan C)I have a lot of ideas that cannot be posted here (legality and opsec issues) but if the time comes I will have the resources to impliment them. If you have read my older posts then you know where to start just use your imagination. IMO going head to head with the enemy is a bad idea, there are 100′s of ways to take people out without any direct contact. Use furniture strategically to defend against fire (bookcases, dressers, etc.) to allow you time to get out and away. The person armed with imagination and brains IS a formidable foe!

      • Genius says:

        Save your metal coffee and #10 cans they are very useful! Poke holes around the bottom (where it’s sealed) and some holes on the side just below the top. Walla an instant cookstove using sticks or charcoal etc. Take 2 of them and connect the open ends together with a piece of metal screen and you have a smoker. Put one on top of the other (on top of the one for burning) and you have a pot to cook or boil water in. Fill one with charcoal briquets and a small bottle of charcoal starter, a book of matches or lighter, a piece of mesh screen big enough to cover the top, a can opener (V shaped to make vent holes). put the plastic lid on it and duct tape it on and walla, an instant bugout stove/heater ready to go. Burn sticks or whatever in it.

        • Sgt. Dale says:

          Genius:
          Thanks for the great advice!!
          Sgt.

        • Thank you for posting this, Genius!

          ~GV

        • HD74Man says:

          @Genius…RE: No. 10 cans

          Good advice! When I went to Outward Bound in Morganton, NC back in 1970, each crew would carry a No. 10 can, to heat water over a campfire, since the rations issued for multi-day excursions into the outback were all light-weight, freeze-dried, mil-prep concoctions. Couldn’t have got the job done without that No. 10 can, or the compass to get you to the drop-off point!

          • Genius says:

            Yep HD74, they have a million uses. I have a joke for you…
            Whats the difference between a Harley and a Hoover?
            Where you mount the dirtbag!
            Ha Ha I hope you liked that one (not personal just funny). :)

            • HD74Man says:

              @Genius…

              Harley vs. a Hoover…LMAO-It’s a changed place relative to the HD crowd. I bought my first in ’76 when I was 23 and the only people who rode them were 1%’ers, cops, and a few privateers. Then everybody wanted to get on the bandwagon. Scores of wannabe’s blew in the door. My ’82 Shovelhead/DuoGlide lost in a HOG custom bike show to a stocker with a factory custom paint job owned by a dentist. And that’s the way it is now.

              • arcohd says:

                The only thing worse than a wannabe, is a yuppie biker. There’s a group on FB called biker or not. A couple bros were on it, so I checked it out. They had a post one day asking people what they paid for an oil change. Seriously? I replied, real bikers change their own oil.

                I’ve never bought a brand new bike in my life and none of my bikes have ever been inside a dealer as long as I owned them.

                • HD74Man says:

                  @archohd…RE: Yuppie Biker…I went to a custom parts store awhile back and was chewing the fat about the current HD scene with the owner. Guy told me he gets riders thru the door now, who don’t even know the model ID’s of the scoots they are riding, never mind changing their own oil. WTF? Plus, in the beer tent at Laconia, you could always spot the “Yup” riders and their women a mile away, because they always had their official “high end” HD leathers on, even when it was 95 degrees out! LMAO!

        • Tucker says:

          I highly recommend that everyone get one of these biolite wood gasifier stoves, plus the add-on grill that fits on it.

          I ordered one – haven’t used it yet, but intend to very soon. Go to youtube, and punch in ‘biolite stoves’ and you can find a boat load of video reviews of the stove.

    10. Tractor says:

      IF you survive after about the first month you will be eating worms and grass and loving it.
      Unless you prep for it and have the means to keep it.
      Location is of up most importance. Tons and tons of preps in a bad location is just a billboard for looters. (Remember the Alamo?) Put me in the country where my nearest neighbor is 6 miles and the youngest one is 97 years old. But then you will have to watch out for the kids and grand kids, (see what I mean?)
      Some BAD ju ju coming to us very soon!
      They could be truthful with the people. BUT NO all we hear is how Unemployment is going down and the Stock Market is going up, so everything is RIGHT with the world. When the Government tells you to GO BACK TO SLEEP, that is the time to run for the hills.
      To late to buy gold & silver, buy food & water and lots of it.

      • John_Allen says:

        @ Tractor

        I like the way you think.

        They know who and where we are. Do we know who and where they are? At the local and state level the power elite suckups have names and addresses. The “I was just following orders” crowd have a choice. Treat us like the Gestapo treated its victims and YOU will become victims. Or join the fight to defend our liberty. They have a choice.

        When they send their nasty boys to collect us, I hope some of us who are young enough and trained enough to do the guerrilla thing for real take it to them.

        All those political vermin who nibble away at the Second Amendment? All those thieves who can’t wait to raise every tax there is, to line their pockets at our expense?

        All those legislator vermin who have no principles beyond, “See how generous I’ve been with you (with other people’s stolen money) … re-elect me….”

        The vermin have names and addresses. When the game begins for real I hope those of you with the requisite physical fitness and skills go hunting.

        Whoever said, “Don’t wait to fight them on your own doorstep” has it right, imo.

    11. When SHTF the battle for survival starts where you stand, it behooves all to be prepared.

    12. Town with a crime rate of less than one murder a year (gets $700,000 dollar tank to police citizens)

      The report says the town of about 45,000 on the high desert plateau of New Mexico gets about one SWAT team call per month.

      Often the call is for barricaded suspects, hostage situations or high-risk arrest warrants.

      The new tool is a truck about 14 feet tall weighing about 45,000 pounds. It was handed over to the city police department for $3,000 after the federal government spent $600,000 building the unit, one of some 24,000 made for fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

      Washburn told the Daily-Times

      • Mcdave says:

        One big expensive target.

      • Ugly says:

        I wonder if a Dodge Challenger can take one of those out as in the attempt in ‘Vanishing Point’?

      • Kulafarmer says:

        I think i would buy one too if someone offered me that kinda deal!
        The MPD over here paid over 200k for a bearcat that just sits in the garage at the main station, they have used it about a dozen times for drug raids but pretty much just used as a taxi,

      • HD74Man says:

        @VRF…$600,000 tanks

        My father was a sniper and expert bazooka-man with the 12th Armored Division, in George Patton’s 3rd Army which was rushed to Bastogne to stop the German offensive at the “Battle of the Bulge”. His story to me, was that after running thru fields and hearing the screams of men caught inside burning Shermans (they called them “Ronson’s” after the cig lighter-because the gasoline powered engines vs. diesel for the Krauts caused them to burn) plus the devastation caused by direct hits from the deadly 88mm heavy gun, he wouldn’t have been a “tankman” for all the money in the world. So good luck to those clowns in their steel coffins.

      • Tucker says:

        Can anyone explain how these armored vehicles can manage to protect their tires from being shot out?

        Is there such a thing as bullet-proof tire rubber?

        Also, I would think that an incendiary round that could penetrate the outside of the tire and then ignite on the inside ought to be able to set the tire on fire.

        • nosuchuser says:

          Lookup: run flat tires. Turns out yes they can (at least for a little while).

          Long enough to get out of the ambush anyways….

        • HD74Man says:

          @Tucker…In reading a book on Panzer Ace Walter Wittman,the Kraut’s always put a pair of MG 42′s on the flanks of their Tiger I’s to prevent approach by infantry, like that scene in “Saving Private Ryan” before the 20mm cannon rips them up. You can bet the Homeland Security traitors ain’t gonna be that fookin’ smart.

      • nosuchuser says:

        Never under-estimate the power of a lobbyist selling fear!

        These things are products and they need a market. If a market doesn’t exist, they will create one….

        This isn’t too different from the congressman forcing the Army to upgrade a bunch of M1 tanks that they didn’t even want….. After $n millions of upgrades and refurbishments they sit, and will always sit, in a parking lot somewhere… They’re tanks that already crossed their ‘bridge to nowhere’….

    13. Nice paragraph in the “The Rebel”
      The Fake Tantrum of America’s First Shemale, Moooshelle

      “the rebel dot org”

      Don’t get me wrong. I don’t hold against Obama that he is a homosexual. If anything I feel sorry for him. Nor do I hold against him that he is born outside the United States or that he’s a cocaine addicted Communist Muslim who used to earn his drug money as a teenage male prostitute sleeping with older white men and as such does everything he can to destroy the country and race he hates most. That’s his choice of life-style. What I hold against him is that he is a mass-murderous psychopath and pathological liar. Time to send HIM to Guantanamo Bay.

    14. Socrates says:

      Great article as always, Selco. Thanks for taking the time to share with the rest of us. A lot of people have never had a gun put to the side of their head and lived to tell the tale. It’s not a moment in time you will easily forget, either.

      Humans are really animals, deep down so it doesn’t surprise me that we would revert back to our natural behaviors. No matter how good our ‘plans’ are there is always some event or situation we didn’t think of that tips the scales against us.

      Toilet paper = gold as do lighters, granola bars and many other things you see every day…but probably won’t when it hits the fan blades hard.

    15. Sgt. Dale says:

      This collapse will be totally different that any other. We have about 80% of the people that live in a City. 5% live on the farm. 15% live in the country and are just a little better off that the folks in the city.

      This collapse will cover the whole world. A person in a 3rd world country is better off than we are. They lived for a long time with nothing and they expect nothing. We expect Elect power to be on, water to run, a the police to protect them.

      All we can do is try to learn from someone to help us survive. I’m very lucky I learned form the best. My Missouri family lived in the wood all their lives and the taught me how to hunt, fish and prepare food. My Father was a D.I. in the Army. So I learned things from him. I became a cop and went to a lot schools to learn how to fight and win. .

      I HAVE THIS SITE TO LEARN FROM SOME OF THE GREATEST FOLKS AROUND.

      I keep saying prep!!! What are we prepping for Who really knows we just know that something is coming and we want to save our families and friends.

      Someone said the Gen. Patton once said “After the first shot is fired everything changes”. He is right. You have to be very flexible in the coming times, and put your faith in God!

      AIM SMALL MISS SMALL
      Sgt.

      • braveheart says:

        Sgt. Dale, I have relatives with similar backgrounds. all of my family in GA grew up on farms and learned how to hunt, fish, prepare game and fish for cooking and storage, etc. at the earliest possible ages. Survival is the middle name for each and every one of them. I’ve also learned from them since I unfortunately grew up in an urban area and I know I learned from the best. I thank God for them. My prepping will continue. MOLON LABE braveheart

        • Night breaker says:

          Braveheart , Sgt Dale
          The people on this site are a lot like my former platoon guys each one of you reminds me of them maybe that is why I feel comfortable discussing things like this that are not discussable with the general population .some of the best Marines that I had the honor to serve with came from backgrounds similar to yours, , they were humble genuine ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances that performed extraordinarily.

          We are in for one heck of a challenge the likes that have not been seen in a couple of generations. From Valley Forge to the fields of Gettysburg to the the forests of Europe, the cold of the Korean Peninsula and the jungles of Southeast Asia , the Deserts of the Middle East , citizen soldiers have fought to preserve our way of life. Nothing less will be expected of us in defending our lives, families and Liberty.

          We really do not know what is coming or the scope of the event , I am sure it will not be pleasant
          It will be disturbing , but the key to surviving this is the knowledge that everything happens for a reason , we see through a glass darkly , evil surrounds us in this fallen world , it is our mission to survive it, bring light back into it and eventually rebuild it and make it a better place than we entered it. This is why we will fight to insure that the principals our country were founded on do not perish , our founding fathers yesterday’s dreams are today’s hopes and tomorrows realities.

          There are going to be only two kind of people in this fight those that support the police state and those that are willing to destroy it.

          KNOW WHERE YOU STAND

          RESIST

          III%

          Semper Fi 8541

          • Sgt. Dale says:

            Night Breaker:
            I proud to hear that you put me in with such Great people. I THANK YOU. It is an honor!!!
            You are correct we don’t know what is coming. I feel with good people like you and the good folks on this site we will be ok at the end. I hope I live to see it, and will be able to tell my great grand kids, that we fought the NWO and the POLICE STATE AND KICKED ITS BUTT!!!!! So that they would have a better place to live in.
            I was not a Marine, but if it is OK with you may I return to you a SEMPER FI, And a God Bless YOU and Yours.
            AIM SMALL MISS SMALL
            Sgt.

            • braveheart says:

              Nightbreaker, thank you for including me in that category and I definitely feel honored. I was never in the military but I’ll give you a hearty SEMPER FI anyway. It’s true we don’t know for sure what’s coming but with people like you, me, Sgt. Dale, and the others, I think we can make it. MOLON LABE braveheart

          • John W. says:

            The biggest difference this time is our own govt. will be the enemy. They hate us and want up dead. Obamacare will not accomplish that quickly enough so they may just hurry things along. Don’t be old and get sick.

      • HD74Man says:

        @Sgt. Dale…RE: This collapse will be totally different that any other. We have about 80% of the people that live in a City. 5% live on the farm. 15% live in the country and are just a little better off that the folks in the city.

        Precisely the reason, the coming economic and social collapse will be nothing like the Depression of the 30′s, where the demographics were the inverse of the numbers you present. There will be no running to Uncle Dan’s country farm with its’ milk cows and big vegetable gardens this time around. The chaos and devastation will be unlike anything the world has ever seen…as it is written in the Book of Revelations.

        • nosuchuser says:

          Funny that you think that. The crash of 08 was on the scale of the crash of 28. This time we didn’t see the massive dislocation of population, deflationary death-spiral, people starving in the streets, etc. Our social safety net, as deeply compromised as is has become, functioned largely as designed. If we didn’t have the safety net this could have been far worse that the great depression.

          • HD74Man says:

            @nosuchuser…RE:This time we didn’t see the massive dislocation of population, deflationary death-spiral, people starving in the streets, etc. Our social safety net, as deeply compromised as is has become, functioned largely as designed. If we didn’t have the safety net this could have been far worse that the great depression.

            Paid for with worthless fiat paper currency, public debt money printed by the Federal Reserve. The net will be gone when the oil currency peg goes to the Yuan, the Chinamen debtors decide to cash in their $2+ trillion US treasury bond money, and Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security all collapse under the weight their $217 trillion in unfunded liabilities. Its called “Running on Empty” and all just a mirage.

            • nosuchuser says:

              @HD74Man:
              I looked into where that $217 Trillion number came from. It turns out that it was made out of whole cloth and intentionally presented without any frame of reference. The entire purpose is to convince us to cut some of the most effective earned benefit programs in US history.

              Given that I exchanged a bunch of ‘worthless fiat notes’ today for some food, fuel, and a bunch of repair parts it’s pretty apparent that they are not in fact worthless.

              I wouldn’t worry too much about the Chinese in the future. They have boatloads of problems coming home to roost. Not too different than what happened to the Japanese in the early 90′s.

    16. Jim in Va. says:

      Peterson is bored again. His porno didn’t come in the mail so he has too much time on his hands and is meeing with our thoughtful discussions again.

    17. DEADMEAT says:

      I EXPECT A WAR ON THREE FRONTS. ONE WITH YOUR NEIGHBOR. TWO WITH YOUR GOV. AND THREE WITH OTHER NATIONS, THAT WILL COME WHEN THEY SEE OUR FALL. MAYBE NOT RIGHT AWAY, BUT LET US SIMMER FOR A BIT. GOD BLESS US ALL DURING THESE DARK TIMES APPROACHING…..

      • Sgt. Dale says:

        Deadmeat:
        Thank you and my GOD bless you and yours.

      • islander says:

        I have often thought the same thing Dead , other nations wont miss a chance to kick the U.S. when its down

        • sixpack says:

          After all of the destruction and bullying, I can’t say as I blame them. My only hope is that they have the wisdom to direct their anger to where it belongs and wipe the white house and congress off the map, instead of us. We’d all be better served if they wiped the NSA off the planet too.

      • Paranoid says:

        The guy next door is a diabetic Mormon with 600 lbs of sugar in his garage. and God only knows what’s in his basement The guy down the street works with people who make guns for the Gov. And makes parts for them. And the rest of the street is a bit more conservative. (Rightwing oilfield trash) Don’t think I’ll have real problems with them. Other than them feeling badly if we don’t have a war, I don’t honestly believe the Gov is going to bother with Wyo, we may get Indian wars. As far as the rest of the world, come on down!

      • lastmanstanding says:

        What was that old Marine saying? Oh yea…

        “kill’em all and let God sort’em out.

      • nosuchuser says:

        It is an well documented fact that we Americans make a sport of fighting among ourselves. The one, and only, thing that is guaranteed to get us united in a common cause is an external threat. For military examples see Pearl Harbor and 9/11. For (lack of a better term) political examples see the moon mission.

        Given that we are the sole remaining ‘Super Power’ (now called a hyper-power), NO country or any logical grouping of countries can hope to challenge us with military force.

        Given the above I think we can rule out a serious conflict with another country…

        In general, I do not fear our government. I fear the massive influx of lobbyist (thank you citizen’s united) money into our election process. Courtesy of that single ruling we have effectively moved from ‘one citizen, one vote to one dollar, one vote’. Yet, I do not believe that I must really fear that either. Why? Newton’s 3′rd law of motion states “for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction”. And we’re already starting to see the backlash to corporate excesses.

        Finally, I will not go to war with my neighbors. I will help them, because I can.

        I do not, and will not, subscribe to whatever paranoid psychosis that has gotten ahold of you.

    18. TheGuy says:

      I recommend getting together a group and doing paintball, preferrably in an urban type setting field.

      You die so fast it isn’t even funny. My first try I died in 15 seconds from the start of the match. My longest standing run is about 3-5 minutes and that’s largely either because I hid… or I had a coordinated team. Which by the way is rare. Everyone’s got an opinion and it’s going to screw you up when you’ve got half a second to make a decision. Everyone will tend to run out on you too if you become pinned and their cover fire to get you out is getting returned too hard.

      Getting pinned is disgustingly easy by the way.

      And all this, there’s no noise going on and no one heckling you (for added chaos). And you’re evenly divided into two teams, no “random guys on nobody’s side” for even more added chaos.

      He’s right, you get into that for real, you got a life expectancy of 5 minutes AT BEST. Best idea is to try to get the eff out ASAP.

    19. wrong says:

      One day a man decided to retire…

      He booked himself on a Caribbean cruise and proceeded to have the time of his life, that is, until the ship sank.

      He soon found himself on an island with no other people, no supplies, nothing, only bananas and coconuts.

      After about four months, he is lying on the beach one day when the most gorgeous woman he has ever seen rows up to the shore.

      In disbelief, he asks, “Where did you come from? How did you get here?”

      She replies, “I rowed over from the other side of the island where I landed when my fishing boat sank.”

      “Amazing,” he notes. “You were really lucky to have a row boat wash up with you.”

      “Oh, this thing?” explains the woman. ” I made the boat out of some raw material I found on the island. The oars were whittled from gum tree branches. I wove the bottom from palm tree branches, and the sides and stern came from an Eucalyptus tree.”

      “But, where did you get the tools?”

      “Oh, that was no problem,” replied the woman. ” On the south side of the island, a very unusual stratum of alluvial rock is exposed. I found that if I fired it to a certain temperature in a volcanic vent I found just down island, it melted into ductile iron and I used that to make tools and used the tools to make the hardware.”

      The guy is stunned.

      “Let’s row over to my place,” she says “and I’ll give you a tour.” So, after a short time of rowing, she soon docks the boat at a small hand built wharf. As the man looks to shore, he nearly falls off the boat.
      Before him is a long stone walk leading to a cabin and tree house.

      While the woman ties up the rowboat with an expertly woven hemp rope, the man can only stare ahead, dumb struck. As they walk into the house, she says casually, “It’s not much, but I call it home. Please sit down.”

      “Would you like a drink?”

      “No! No thank you,” the man blurts out, still dazed. “I can’t take another drop of coconut juice.”

      “Oh, it’s not coconut juice,” winks the woman. “I have a still. How would you like a Jack Daniels neat?”

      Trying to hide his continued amazement, the man accepts, and they sit down on her couch to talk. After they exchange their individual survival stories, the woman announces,
      “I’m going to slip into something more comfortable. Would you like to take a shower and shave? There’s a razor in the bathroom cabinet upstairs.”
      No longer questioning anything, the man goes upstairs into the bathroom. There, in the cabinet is a razor made from a piece of tortoise bone. Two shells honed to a hollow ground edge are fastened on to its end inside a swivel mechanism.

      “This woman is amazing,” he muses. “What’s next?”

      When he returns, she greets him wearing nothing but a bandana around her blonde locks and some small flowers on tiny vines, each strategically positioned, she smelled faintly of coconut oil. She then beckons for him to sit down next to her.

      “Tell me,” she begins suggestively, slithering closer to him, “We’ve both been out here for many months. You must have been lonely. When was the last time you had a really good ride? She stares into his eyes.

      He can’t believe what he’s hearing. “You mean…” he swallows excitedly as tears start to form in his eyes,

      “You’ve built a Harley?”

    20. Plan Twice, Prep Once says:

      For those who imagine an ability to survive occasional combat/ life threatening situations who do not have millitary combat training, may I suggest you spend a few afternoons a year at the local paintball field, to go with regular range training.

      There is nothing like a good simulation, and understand the military uses paintball training simulations for good reason.

      I have seen some pretty hardcore paintballers who I would truly fear in a real combat situation.

      When paintballing, self limit ammo to real life firearm expectations, just to make it more challenging and lifelike.

      A good lesson taught at paintball courses is you could die if you make mistakes, luckily in paintball you just get tagged out till the next round.

    21. Old Vet says:

      THE PRESIDENT IS ALWAYS UNDER OATH

      By Coach Dave Daubenmire
      December 12, 2013
      NewsWithViews.com
      I am so stinkin mad at how stupid the American people are. That’s why this country isn’t going to be around much longer. We love being lied to. It protects us from responsibility.
      I’m not afraid of what I am about to say, but angry about how little people give a damn. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. At least that is what I learned from years of watching Perry Mason.
      Where is Perry Mason when we need him? Can’t somebody DO something about the lawlessness in our government? Isn’t there an elected official somewhere who is willing to take the heat to do what is right for the country?
      I understand. It is a dangerous environment in which we live. There are forces at work in our government who think nothing of killing innocent Americans who do nothing but question those in authority. The IRS is only a phone call away. Government can be quite a bully.
      Hundreds of thousands of Americans have died defending the Constitution of the United States…many of them in the blood soaked dirt of God-forsaken nations. We spit on their graves every time we allow this imposter in the White House to violate his oath of office.
      This is not why they fought and died.

      More: http://www.newswithviews.com/Daubenmire/dave349.htm

      • Pissed Off Granny says:

        Old Vet:

        What a great link you have provided. I would like to suggest that people also click on the link in the article to Pastor Manning who takes Glen Beck to the woodshed; and rightfully so. Thanks again for the link!

    22. Gonna upset a few most likely but then that’s a good thing if it makes em think…something that’s always bugged me…people watch some hooyweird movie(or 100) and then procede to build their knowledge/expertise base on all the “facts” they saw portrayed by some guy/gal who makes a living pretending…now its okay to watch a movie and enjoy it and kick some things around and maybe even occasionally they’ll actually portray something somewhat accurately but remember the people who make these movies and the govt theyre in cahoots with isn’t going to feed you very much good info with which you can actually survive if they even have a clue themselves…after all they are amongst the groups that want us all dead or enslaved…cant tell you how many times Ive been lectured by some expert who got it on good authority via an Arrny Swartz movie that the world will be taken over by humanbiobots and the only way to defeat them is to shove a stale twinkie in their carbru-nos-erator intake port or some such thing and that theyre working on these things right now under every mickyDs in the nation of someplace…you get my point…folks most of you get it but to the few who don’t whilst for instance the movie “The Road” was a tough one emotionally and the series “Revolution” is a decent entertainment show…it wont be like that…itll be a lot worse and a lot better…ya both in some places… but if you make your survival decisions based on a movie you will die…you will die and wonder why…why did it work for slyvester stallone but not me…and who ever is nearby will shake their head and say “because youre stupid”….because if you are basing anything of substance(you and yours survival) on a movie(something of little or no substance) you will nominate yourself and your loved ones for an actual filming of another segment of the Darwin Awards…and that aint a good thing…not trying to beat up anyone but Ive thought about this before and talked to people about it before…this article provided an opening to bring the point up here and hopefully if theres anyone here who is engaging in this way of thinking itll make you stop and really think…end of a rant of sorts…thanks!

    23. newbee says:

      Another high school shooting in Co. WTF are these kids thinking of

      • Facebook Page says:

        Modern Warfare 3 and A why me issue.

      • TheGuy says:

        Wow, what the fuck is with Colorado?

        I mean you really got to start asking yourself what the fuck is up with their school system given that so many kids want to put so many bullets into it…

        Not much of a positive review IMO. I wouldn’t let kids anywhere near a Colorado public school.

        • The Old Coach says:

          The influx of Californians is what’s wrong with Colorado.

          • John W. says:

            The influx of liberal east Coast assholes is what ruined Calif. You could open carry until 1965. This place is so far gone except for the weather(almost 80 here today in Sandy Eggo). I expect amnesty will finish it off.

            • The Old Coach says:

              No argument from me there. But I wouldn’t blame the East Coast. When I was a wee sprat in Mass in the ’50s we carried BB guns and .22s everywhere. Heck, at ten years old I bought my own ammo at the village general store. My Dad had a chum who came out to our farm to fire a friggin’ cannon he’d made that shot cement-filled beer cans. And that was only 20 miles out of Boston. Our hayfield is a housing development now, and you can get a felony charge for having one spent .22 casing in your car.

              Liberal assholes from away swamped Massachusetts in the ’60s and ’70s. I was there. Where did they come from? All over the country, mostly to go to college in Boston. Maybe that’s why the center of the county is red. Liberals everywhere exported themselves to the coasts. Or maybe the honest folks in flyover country kicked them out, and that’s where they went.

        • sixpack says:

          Maybe it’s because the NSA mind control lab is in that area—the pigeons don’t have far to go to execute their programming…

    24. maudy fricket says:

      Planning, luck and a healthy constitutional every day. The American way. Heavy on the luck.

    25. Anonymous says:

      Selco: “…people are so used to believing what they want to believe.”
      Exactly. Try to tell someone the truth when their mind is already made up.
      I liked what he said about “chaos”.

    26. maudy fricket says:

      Anybody notice that there are a lot of places in the world whose cultures don’t seem ready for a Free Constitutional Republic? Is America one of them?

    27. CrabbeNebulae says:

      Ok, ok, I get it nature is very brutal so never take a shower when you are drunk and never argue with your wife when she is holding a butcher knife. But, I have one question. Where is a woman’s yet. I heard a woman just got shot with a .45 caliber gun and the bullet is in her yet! :)

    28. Warchild says:

      I am ready to shelter in or if absolutely necc. hoof on foot with Molle and all can reasonably carry.I hike on a regular basis with Molle and have weight to cover the ammo I would bring if it came down to it.That said,at moment no one depends on me,thus,see evil happening like rape ect. no matter the odds going to at least take a few down before I die,perhaps I do have a death wish!I have thought about this for years and am comfortable sitting on the rock in hell with a beer and smoke waiting for the few I took with me,I see no point in survival if I have to watch things like that go on and do nothing.I understand others have family ect. and thus must be more careful,at moment I am expendable and happy to put up a fight and perhaps inspire others to if they can try and do the right thing,this is personally the best I have to offer in the SHTF scenario,am not a surgeon ect. who has skills better salvaged.

      • Mcdave says:

        I think this may be the best thing I could do with my life as well. Honestly, it may be only right thing I’d ever do. Ya gotta stand for something…

        • Warchild says:

          Dave,would much rather be in a position to help people,i.e. orphans/someone hurt/take in stray animals,much more positive then killing people and to me more satisfying.I just feel more likely to see evil from others being acted on be it citizens or govt.,either way will not hide and ignore and hope it passes me by.In a horrible situation lets hope you and I and like minded people are put in situations were we can help folks without the violence,that said,be ready for the violence,enjoy the weekend folks.

    29. Kulafarmer says:

      Im glad i live where i do,,,
      Most days anyway,
      Selco is a real good reality check,
      If we have an all out war, all bets are off,
      If its a financial collapse i think what happens will largely depend on 1. where you live 2. What you know 3. What your lifestyle was like before!
      He makes a real good point with being too attached to your stuff,
      The only thing is that no two situations are alike, and you may well be better off with that custom .308win than a 22 plinkster,, just MHO. A friend in the military always says your tools are just as important as your knowledge and vice versa.
      But Selco is right, if you gotta run that 10,000 rounds of 50BMG aint gonna do shit except get you killed!

      • The Old Coach says:

        Reading Selco on the Balkans is like reading Eugene Sledge on WW2 in the Pacific.

        • Kulafarmer says:

          I really like reading Selco’s blogs,, good real info,
          Someone up above was comparing JWR and Selco,
          IMHO they both bring valid info to the table, Selco from real life SHTF in his life,
          JWR as a liberty minded American who has an excellent website with tons of info.

    30. Rev. Billy Graham Cracker says:

      Many on this site will be surprised when they find out that their future is not what in played out in a James Rawles novel, but will be more like life in China today.

      But not to worry, people such as Peterson and Facebook, those who have little or no morals, will do just fine under a Socialist System, once they adapt. In fact, they’ll make wonderful guards for “The Camps”.

      No God-No Peace/ Know God-Know Peace

    31. Very important article, thanks for writing it. Some questions tho:
      - Survival for the sake of survival? I realize N. Americans are utter pansies compared to previous generations, but if I have to become *only* and merely and animal, what is there worth fighting to stay alive FOR?
      - Sorry to bring up God, but either He exists, or not. If the latter, fine, have at it. But if He does, a.) we will need to reckon with Him, and b.) He is, actually, engaged in history. I understand fully that grotesque evil will still happen, and that we may well need to defend ourselves against it, and with lethal means. The question is, *how* do we do that? Do you really want to use lethal force on a man only trying to save his children from dying from starvation? As a Christian, I recall that Christians often were the only ones to stay behind in plague infested cities to care for the dying. So, yes, some of my preps will indeed be used to help the less fortunate. How do I balance that with “I can’t feed the whole world” issue? I don’t know. Perhaps some kind of quid pro quo – i.e., I will give you food, but you need to assist working in my garden for it. The LAST thing I want to do is feed into the socialism that created this mess, so that is one possible solution. But, I would welcome other thoughts. I am a gun owner, and would use lethal force in certain situations, but as a last resort. Man is made in the image of God, and taking a life is a very, very solemn thing. Maybe I am indeed idealizing; on the other hand, maybe some of the people who just became animals in Selco’s experience are basically animals like that all the time (heck, I live and work with masses of people like that every day) and what he experienced was just what those people do when restraints are removed. I am *not* writing about those people! Rather, I am writing about people who may need to defend themselves against people like that, and how, why and when to do that. I am indeed a prepper. On the other hand, I certainly AM going to die one day no matter how much I prep. So, there is a balance here between survive at all costs no matter what you do (which is immoral) and “I’ll just pray” and do nothing, which I also don’t see warranted by Scripture. There’s a realistic third way which takes into account the evil of man AND the immanence of God. I would sure like to see more discussion on THAT!

      • JayJay says:

        {{{How do I balance that with “I can’t feed the whole world” issue? I don’t know.{{{

        EXACTLY— because my lack of faith is showing in bright orange cowardice in that I don’t believe Jesus will come to my salvation and multiply my peanut butter and crackers to feed the multitude. :-(

        • Sgt. Dale says:

          J J:
          You are right God only helps them that helps themselves.
          Sgt.

          • Just to be clear, that statement is no where in the Bible. In fact, the Bible says God saved us when we were dead in our sins and trespasses – helpless. This is, of course, in discussing the spiritual world. God gave us a brain to think, and that means, e.g., preparing every fall for winter (and it sure appears a financial winter is coming). If you are not a Christian, then you needn’t really comment – I get it… it’s every man for himself. If you are indeed a person of faith, I only wish to open up a discussion on HOW we can exhibit our faith in a wise manner that helps others – NOT enabling them, NOT pandering to them – while not being stupid at the same time. Selco has a lot of good, practical, important points. If someone tries to break in and attack my home, I will use lethal force, as just one example. I assiduously prep is another example. But, Selco’s article *can* be read, to possibly suggest survival for survival’s sake. So, is that all we are – animals? Sure, for a few of you here, that may be the case (and if so, please insert your insults in this space: _____) On the other hand, for those of us who DO believe in preparedness, DO believe in using the brain God gave us to help ourselves, who DO believe in preparing for winter when we know it is coming, the question is, how and when do we help others?

        • As a matter of fact, God causes plants to grow and sun to shine everyday, allowing your to continue to eat and breathe. I understand the insult; I do not understand your point. My issue is that, yes, if all we are is animals, then have at it with your survive at all costs. In fact, with this attitude, you are nothing more than the leftist vermin that – according to The Black Book of Communism – murdered 100 MILLION last century. I believe in preparedness. I also believe in using lethal means for self defense against aggressors. AT the same time, I believe in compassion, justice (no, NOT the leftist kind of faux justice) and humanity to what I do. I submit that you cynical types who will talk a big line here will most likely just get bumped off by other unethical types in a SHTF situation; but worse, you are nothing more than clothes-wearing animals at this very moment. Not sure what there is to survive about.

      • nosuchuser says:

        We CAN feed the world! Hunger is a political problem, not a problem caused by lack of supply or a serious logistics problem.

    32. lonelonmum says:

      Off topic, fao Be Informed.

      The video link below shows how fast a major pandemic could spread from a single International airport around the world. The Airport is Heathrow, a major European transnational interchange. I think it would be compared to say JFK in the states?

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2523302/Terrifying-video-reveals-London-Heathrow-spread-pandemic-DAYS.html

      I’d be interested to get people’d views.

      • logicrazy says:

        Speaking of that, just buried a friend. He had the flu, got worse, got pneumonia, and today I attended his service. He was 48…

        • newbee says:

          Way to young logic sorry for you loss..

        • lastmanstanding says:

          Sorry to here about your buddy.

          None of us are immune or unreachable from anything on this earth. Just had a friend 57 that had a heart attack in his home and died.

          I just turned 52…one must learn to live a day at a time.

          My long term plan is to live 1 more day than all of these sick fucks that think they are better than me.

          • Emily says:

            @ lastmanstanding – Someone on talk radio said that, “Living Well is the Best Revenge.” I hold the same sentiments that you do. Not to take ones wealth, or, riches and flaunt it, or, rub some ones nose in it. But, as you stated, ‘ To live one more day than all the sick fucks that think they are better than me.’ Amen to that.

    33. Fleendar the wise says:

      Hollywood is the LAST place anyone should get their survival and weaponry tips from! When you see McGyver create some sort of device that allows him to take out 8 people using only a pen, 3 rubber bands, peroxide, a piece of aluminum and a plastic pop bottle, that means that you DON’T DO this!

      • Kevin2 says:

        McGyver’s purpose was to dramatize an anti gun message.

        • Facebook Page says:

          And advertise for the swiss army knife

        • Tucker says:

          McGyver and Mark Harmon are two of the most nauseating, disgusting, limp wristed liberal Commies in Hollywood today.

          Along with Matt Damon, George Clooney and the rest of the tinsel town crowd of liberal cockroaches.

          I’ve reached the point where I make my decisions on what movies I will bother to watch based on my awareness of the political leanings of the actors or actresses who are in the movie. It just irks me to no end, to part with my hard earned money and have it help enrich these Communist bastards who hate the America that our Founding Fathers created and who hate our sacred and precious Second Amendment rights.

      • braveheart says:

        Fleendar the wise, welcome aboard, and let add never take advice on any subject from anyone in Hollywood. McGyver was just entertainment anyway. braveheart

    34. 21Bravo says:

      Bottom line to the article…. Do whatever you have to do, so you can go home at the end of the day…..

    35. For Selco to survive his ordeal..and come to the USA..to only prepare to do it again..has to be a complete bummer…..may the odds remain in your favor and a little of your luck be ‘rubbed off’ on some of us……..Semper Fi

    36. Money Supply says:

      http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/BASE

      When this hits 8k. We’re fucked I feel.

      They are planning all this shit.

    37. Be informed says:

      How many out there think that Lard Boy Porky did not actually execute his uncle in North Korea? I kind of think this was a ploy to make Twidle Dumb look like he was a ferocious leader to the rest of the world. I am thinking it was a show. Anyone else think that Porky did this to look tough and his uncle is hidden away somewhere?

    38. Trayvon Zimmerman says:

      This “Selco” or whoever is obviously unable to type and enunciate proper english herein. However if you go to his “training course” they site is in perfect english and properly enunciated. You can then pay for his wisdom. I cry ADVERTISEMENT HERE! IF you were simply trying to help others you would provide your supposed experience free of charge out of the good of your heart keeping in my what you had claimed to have gone through with GOD in mind.

      • Canadian Vet says:

        As someone for whom English is a second language, I can say with certainty that Selco, being from the Balkans, is doing a lot better with his English than a lot of Quebeccers, and English is the primary official language of Canada with French a very distant second.

        • The Old Coach says:

          And a lot better than some of the trolls on SHTFPlan, may I add. His English may not be perfect, but he makes complete sense.

          • braveheart says:

            I listened to Selco being interviewed on The Survival Podcast one evening. His English wasn’t the best it could be, but I could still comprehend what he was saying. braveheart

        • newbee says:

          He is doing a lot better then all the inner city thugs. That were born here and taught to speak and write correctly

        • Babycatcher55 says:

          His English is actually much better than most of the high school graduates I used to tutor in community college. In Brunswick county Virginia, most folks were only one generation off the tobacco fields, and the schools have not done them any favors by tolerating poor reading and writing skills in the name of affirmative action! Some of my students were so proud of themselves to be the first in their family with a high school diploma, and I had to be the one to tell them their diploma wasn’t worth the paper it was written on, because they had only a sixth grade reading and writing level, which is why I was having to tutor them. They couldn’t do college level anything so spent the first year taking catch up classes. The good news is, once they learned where they were, they busted chops working on it, so caught up quickly. Selco’s English is far better!

    39. ed fend says:

      One thing that all you heavily armed fantasy land posters seem to forget is that in a true shtf occurrence all of the nuclear power plants will probably lose power and without power they will melt down and become Fukushima many times over. I think the US has over 100 nuclear plants. You will all be toast in a matter of days, weeks or months. AK’s and .357′s are pretty useless against radiation.

      • JayJay says:

        IF it is an EMP attack.
        However, other than that, I believe the nuclear plants will be first on the list of important things to guard.

        • Canadian Vet says:

          That and nuke plants have mechanical failsafes that do not require computers or power to operate. Also, you would do well to recall the Fukushima plant was hit with both a tsunami and a major earthquake in close succession and therefore sustained extensive physical damage to its infrastructure, something an EMP does not directly cause.

          • gone under says:

            Somebody finally gets it. Also, a EMP would likely have limited effect and would depend on the intensity.

          • ed fend says:

            I’m not a nuclear expert but I think you are dreaming if you think that all will turn out ok with the nuke plants if they were to lose power or their handling was disrupted.

            • Canadian Vet says:

              I’m not saying they can deal with their heat buildup by convection alone indefinitely or that the control rods will be 100% effective until the end of days but I am certain we won’t be looking at an instant Fukushima/Chernobyl/glass parking lot should nuclear plant operations be disrupted by a “soft” event like a power or computer failure. After all of that was the case, good chunks of Ontario, Canada would be glowing in the dark as it is.

              That, and don’t these facilities generate their own power in order to minimize the effect of an outside disruption? And I’m fairly certain a lot of the critical systems are hard-wired and use manual controls as a backup for the complex electronic and computer systems. People designing these things tend to be fairly smart and know the risks of a runaway reactor and as such will have measures in place to mitigate the risks.

              Like I said, the only reason Fukushima is so screwed is because of the extensive physical damage caused by catastrophic natural events, a hard kill if you like. Not the soft kill involved with an EMP or power failure or a solar flare.

            • gone under says:

              Thats right your not… and the experts have factored in all sorts of scenerios.

          • ed fend says:

            Are you kidding me? That’s why there have been so many near misses because these things practically run themselves? They leak radiation and have hundreds of “little” incidents all the time when things are good. And now if the grid is down, and people can’t get to work, or the people there can’t get food, etc.,etc. the nukes will just quietly fade away and we will never have any problems with them breaching their containment vessels. Wow! Well, everyone has their own little fantasies when writing about the big SHTF event.

            • Canadian Vet says:

              I never said the damn things could run themselves indefinitely. Let’s face it, once you get your nuclear fuel going, it’ll keep going until it has all decayed down to something inert and that’ll take a damn long while.

              However, you seem to be under the impression that the second the balloon goes up then every nuclear reactor will go critical instantly and will turn the surrounding countryside into a glow-in-the-dark glass parking lot.

              These things are designed with redundancy in mind. There will be backups for the backups of the backups of the backups. Even if that last one actually involves some poor bastard in a radiation suit with a hammer and a wrench manually working a valve. And since nuclear fuel just keeps on going, it will still generate power, power that can drive the cooling systems, and pumps tend to be fairly simple pieces of equipment that can be adapted and maintained easily.

              And if they can’t sustain the plant’s operation, they will still be able to shut it down before things get out of control.

              • ed fend says:

                No, I never said that things would glow in the dark instantly. Depending on what the event was and how close a person was to a nuke would determine an outcome. I said it could be months. As others have said, disease would also be a big problem. It’s good to be able to defend yourselves with weapons but just because a person thinks they are Rambo doesn’t mean they will be safe.

          • Tucker says:

            I’ve read that the vast majority of nuclear power facilities in the USA have a limited supply of backup power and fuel, and if an EMP attack were to wipe out the electrical grid across our country – or, across certain regions where there were nuclear facilities are present – that the facilities would have about 2 or 3 weeks of power to keep the cooling rods cooled down. After that, they would experience a meltdown.

            That is pretty scary. Imagine having a hundred Fukushima-like meltdowns happening, right here in the USA. The resulting leakage of radiation into the atmosphere would likely kill most of the population of the USA.

            The rats in D.C., of course, would all run to their underground, fully stocked, fully equipped bunkers and live high on the hog while the rest of us got radiation poisoned and all died of cancer.

            • ed fend says:

              That’s what I’m sayin’. Well said Tucker. I’ve also read that a few nukes in California were built on or near fault lines. In the case of a mammoth earthquake I think they would go Fukushima pretty quick.

          • nosuchuser says:

            While you can ‘SCRAM’ the main reactor, it is the cooling pools which require a constant flow of water to keep the spent fuel cool. A loss of cooling water to the spent fuel pools is what caused the problem for the Fukushima plant.

            This is a very unlikely possibility for our nuc. plants. Can it happen? Sure, will it happen almost certainly not….

        • newbee says:

          I really think in any scenario the nuke plants would be first priority. If they melt down our land would be useless.

      • The Old Coach says:

        How can they lose power when what they MAKE is power?

        • Facebook Page says:

          They make steam. Still work like any other generator after that.

          • The Old Coach says:

            Right. Interesting thing, though, if you shut one of those big turbo-generators down, you need a pretty large diesel generator to restart it.

            http://www.power-eng.com/articles/print/volume-115/issue-7/features/black-start-preparedness-for-any-situation.html

            • gone under says:

              Black start is in reference to Large diesel or gas tubine engines, not steam turbines. You would need a power source for the steam turbine lube oil pump and aux equipment. Aboard ship, our Lube oil pumps were steam driven with a AC electric backup as a inverter/battery bank could also provide emergency power for a while. Smaller cogens often use a DC battery bank for Genset aux power needs.

              • The Old Coach says:

                Maybe I misread, but what I got from that article is that you can’t “black start” a steam turbine unless you have a very large diesel or gas turbine there to provide power enough for all the accessory devices and the field. I’ve been close enough to those big steam turbines in my old machine tool career to guess that the lube pump for one turbine alone must be 50 kilowatts. And you have to run the pumps which inject the water and collect the steam for recycling. Another thing that I found interesting is that not every generating plant is even capable of a black start. Only one or two for each section of the grid. The implications write themselves.

      • Kevin2 says:

        Why would they loose power? Why would they not use the residual heat to generate steam to keep in house turbines running to power the cooling water pumps as per design? Why would diesel fuel not be brought in to power the back up generators?

    40. GreatAmericanRedoubt says:

      Been away awhile out at the retreat,
      A lot of people really don’t realize what will actually take place?

      There will be no “Reset”!
      There will be no Golden Horde!

      What there will be is a lot of sickness and death from Disease, modified super flu bugs, forced vaccinations, and Slave labor internment camps.

      When it all finally fails and we have a True “SHTF” Situation, we will already have been living it for months before most people wake up, and do something, only that something will be way too late!

      Just like what we are living in right now in the CONUS.
      All of the collapse hiding in plain sight.

      Every good chess player knows you have to moves your playing pieces into the right areas before you destroy your opponents. (checkmate)

      take a good look around, all is not what it seems!

      Some of my personal observations in the past few years:

      Post office being trained and provided biohazard gear to dispense shots (vaccines) and meds door to door! presidential executive order passed for the funding!
      (Google it)

      NSA, CIA , DHS all gathering lists on selected individual’s all across the CONUS.

      FEMA buying up all the freeze dried food markets.
      DHS Buying out all the ammo.
      FEMA Bunkers being built at a alarming rate.

      Road and freeway closed signs purchased by the 10′s of thousands.

      Roads in country settings- all trees and brush cleared for aircraft to land.
      bridges in country setting raised to accommodate tanks and Armored vehicles, troop transports.

      Hiring for internment camp specialists through the National Guard.

      Foreign troops on our soil.

      K-Rail, bullet proof checkpoints and armored vehicles being purchased and sent out all over the CONUS.

      Homeless people already being rounded up in major city’s and bused off to where???

      Bases around the US burying all surplus ordinances.

      From references, friends and informants I have learned the following:

      A super flu will take the fight out of most of us.
      We will be easily rounded up and disarmed while being so sick.

      all military, DHS, FEMA , CIA , NSA and continuity of government officials will all be immunized to this sickness.

      They will be able to take our guns and are preps.

      those whom will not comply, will be labeled as terrorists and will be on the nightly government news channel criminalized!
      they will show the Sheeple video of Black vehicles and Helicopters rounding up all that resist. to scare them.
      they will show bodies being burned in masses, to “stop the flu”
      they will label you as a carrier, and pay the sheeple to turn you in!

      the only way how to avoid all of this is to group up now, there is power in numbers!

      keep healthy, protect your OPSEC, close your mouth and don’t talk to anyone you cant trust with your life.

      the only other thing I can say is “God Bless”
      Be Safe, Keep Prepping. and stock up on flu fighting vitamins, antibiotics, collided Silver, herbs, oils and tonics.

      • lonelonmum says:

        Sadly I agree – it meets the objectives of Agenda 21 without putting the elite themselves at risk. The elite will simply vaccinate themselves against that which will murder us.

        In the UK some are asking for DNA samples of all babes to be taken at birth to aid in advising on preventative health measures re common genetic diseases. Yeah right? More like to enable tptb to better bio-engineer their genetically targetted bio-flu bugs.

        The historical precedent for this scenario is already there – in the smallpox infected blankets given and traded with the First Nations. I have also read that more Indians were killed by new pathogens introduced by European Settlers than by all the defensive wars they fought.

        • The Old Coach says:

          The “infected blanket” story (if it’s even true) is the end of the tale. The Western Hemisphere natives picked up smallpox from the early Spanish explorers, and it cut the population by something like 90% long before the French and English started colonizing, they having no natural immunity.

          But they had their revenge. They infected at least one of Columbus’ men with syphilis, and so gave Europe almost as good as they got.

        • smokey says:

          Colonists did give blankets from a hospital that had smallpox victims, but spreading infection was unintentional.

          There was no germ theory in those days. Disease was from bad air and humors.

      • AlexD says:

        ‘Homeless people already being rounded up in major city’s and bused off to where???’
        Is this true?
        Is this verifiable?
        I would truly like to research this. Anyone with some leads on this?
        Alex

    41. Facebook Page says:

      There is just no love for the PAGE this evening at all I can even get a hug.

      • Peterson says:

        I’ll hug ya dude!

        • Gunner says:

          Page

          There is a lot of love put out by the
          SHTF clan and you well know it. You
          have been a member of this group for
          a long while.

          Now, for whatever reason known only to
          yourself, you have decided to become
          the prodigal son, along with Peterson.

          We are all adults here and certainly
          don’t need to be held by the hand, but
          we also don’t appreciate a constant
          cream pie in the face by one of our
          own.

          I can understand your hurt, been there
          myself, but your bedside manner has
          become less than friendly, and folks
          here respond in kind to that sort of
          behavior.
          SHTF has many hugs for the Page, if
          you will let them. Keep well, friend.

          • Facebook Page says:

            Yes Peterson is being a dick sometimes BUt he has also been attack for just stating a truth.

            I am not defending any attack on a person but some of his attacks on subject and to be honest KFC constant thief of other site stories is dead on.

            I have notice he has gone a little deeper over the edge since he has received support. Ny intentions were to agree with what he was saying at the time not to encourage him to be a bigger dickhead.

            • Sgt. Dale says:

              Face:
              I know you have seen where I have extended the olive branch to Peterson.
              It is OK to make a commit here, that is what it is for. The problem with Peterson is that his comments are almost always smart ass type.
              I think he is bright person, but just is looking to get a rise out of people so he can get his jollies. With what is come there is no time for that .

              Here is a HUG for the Old Sgt. Oh I do feel a the beating of a heart in there.
              Let us try to find a heart in Peterson. The Grinch found his.
              AIM SMALL MISS SMALL
              Sgt.

            • braveheart says:

              FBP, I don’t understand you taking up for Peterson but I’ll let that pass. Ky Mom is NOT A THIEF when she presents links to other articles for us to look at, articles most of us otherwise might totally miss. Peterson is just a useless troll with nothing good to offer us as far as I can tell. I’ll give him an E for effort at being a troll but nothing else. I’d still prefer he would go away. braveheart

          • California Girl says:

            The good thing is Facebook Page is not being politically correct and is calling people on their tough guy acts for what they are.

      • lastmanstanding says:

        No shit brother.

        You are really getting a bitch-slapping tonight!

        I always say if people aren’t give me shit, then it’s time to worry.

        fuck it…”don’t go down without one helluva fight”

      • The Old Coach says:

        I wouldn’t take a hug from Petersen without first putting on a full HazMat suit, and standing under a Lysol shower afterward.

      • Babycatcher55 says:

        Hugs from East TN!

    42. Anthony says:

      Using only the “thumbs up” and “thumbs down” votes as a guide, about 95% of the people commenting here have already failed to heed Selco’s first point: Being a good and virtuous person does not give you an advantage.

      • Gunner says:

        Anthony

        This may sound like a dichotomy, but
        a person should be a good and virtuous
        person whenever possible and circumstances
        permit.

        When things get really down and dirty though,
        force will have to be met with equal force
        in order to survive. In a life and death
        situation, there is no second place winner.

        • MongoPissed says:

          Well said Gunner. I am a “nice guy”. by choice, but I recognize the beast within. Keeping the beast in check results in much more fury when it is released. The last person who attacked me hopefully went straight to the ER. I moved to the mountains to avoid such shit – but will keep the beast on a very short leash when SHTF.

    43. Ugly says:

      Page.

      A cyber-hug from Ugly.

      The earth is changing. The Man of Pardition is here. I believe people in the know, know. People are at edge.

      Good luck to all.

    44. maudy fricket says:

      Just buried a friend (67 yearts old). 11 Bravo, 1st Cav. RVN, central highlands, Bien Hoa, Bong Song, Pleiku, An Ke, etc. Probably the result of Agent Orange (cancer). Never had an easy job in his life. Worked hard. Back on topic. I lived in Africa for 6 months back in 1978. Common to see kids and adults walking down the trail and stop to pick up a fat grub and pop it in their mouth. They usually only eat 2 meals a day of mealy meal. Dirt floor huts. No electric. Nothing to keep the bugs and snakes out. Wipe their ass with the left hand and eat with the right hand. Reach in the bowl of mealy meal left handed and a fight breaks out. Time and distance meant nothing to these people. Wait for the tribal bus for 2 or three days in the middle of nowhere. Glad I was there to experience it.

      • Kevin2 says:

        maudy fricket

        They’re going to make good industrial cannon fodder. Ultra low wages, no safety or environmental concerns, no complains just happy to have food.

        TPTB call this progress.

        • maudy fricket says:

          A lot of Africa is, literally, still in the stone age. Lifting, pushing and carrying stuff is all they could do. The stores are operated by Asians and Arabs. They still use the tribal system of rank and it holds back the better people.

      • North Georgia Idiot says:

        I personally like using a pine cone to wipe my ass! I was taught to me by a relative of mine in Memphis.

        • Mountain Trekker says:

          North Georgia, corn cobbs are much better, cause they are non-directional, unlike pinecones. Even Peterson would know that. Trekker Out.

        • braveheart says:

          North Georgia, welcome aboard. I’m in Memphis myself but have relatives in north GA and a BOL to go to when the time comes. braveheart

          • Mountain Trekker says:

            Braveheart if you ever have to bug out to North Georgia be very careful, it could be a dangerous road between there and Memphis. There could be highway men laying in ambush, who knows, Peterson or Eisenkraut could be in disguise or some of these other trolls might be hiding along the way. Trekker Out. Semper Paratus!

      • Night breaker says:

        Maudy,
        Central highlands RVN was a tough place had a cousin in Bravo company , 1ST BN ,
        14 infantry (golden dragons) (1/14) 25 infantry Div USARV. mos 11C10
        He is 20 forever. KIA 11-19-1966 Plei Me – LZ lane

        Sorry to hear about your friend .

        We really do not appreciate even with all of the problems in this country how good we really have it compared to the rest of the world.

        Semper Fi 8541

        • Kevin2 says:

          Night breaker

          We have it good if we selectively compare ourselves and if your not one of 43 million on food stamps.

          Sure compared to Vietnam we’re fantastic. We used to shine over northern Europe but like cherry picking inflation inputs we don’t bring them up anymore.

          • Sigi says:

            Even the 43 million on food stamps have it SO much better than poor people elsewhere in the world. Most people in need here can still find ways to get clean, clothed and fed even if they can’t have a roof over their head. Most “poor” people who are housed have a standard of living that is well off everywhere else.

        • maudy fricket says:

          N.B., had a good friend in the 25th, 2/27. Stepped on something meant for a M113. KIA 1969. Nothing left to put in the casket. We all know of at least one, someone special. Seems like that’s the way it is.

          • Night breaker says:

            Maudy,
            I actually got hold of an after action report of that day my cousin gave his all ,
            The firefight was not survivable , he was killed by heavy machine gun fire while attempting to retrieve another soldier wounded in action. The entire bravo company walked directly into the X kill zone with reinforced concealed NVA bunkers and flanking sniper teams. 18 men died that day in bravo company alone.

            I think of the time I had been in a similar situation in a different place and a different time, how lucky I am to not to have had the same outcome. You develop tunnel vision in combat , it’s just the luck of the draw that you survive it. The older you get the more you tend to think about it.

            Semper Fi 8541

            • Night breaker says:

              DAILY JOURNAL 1/14th AFTER ACTION REPORT
              19 NOVEMBER 1966  
              Although the heavy contact with NVA troops on the 13th of November was still fresh in the minds of the men, today they would relive this struggle with an even more determined and large enemy force. Innumerable incidents of personal heroic actions, and the valiant fighting team spirit of out units brought us through on top. Every man who faced the enemy did so in an outstanding manner, and reflected nothing but the highest credit on the Golden Dragon tradition. Company B planned to patrol on an axis parallel to our attached CIDG personnel from Plei Me to LZ “Rio” and then south to the previously discovered bunker complex. Lt. Col. Procter, knowing that such a complex existed so near to LZ Lane, was determined to destroy it. In the vicinity of the bunker complex, a LZ was to be cut so that an Engineer Platoon could be helilifted in to destroy the heavily fortified area. Company B was to act both as a security force for the Engineers and a reaction force for the sweep of Company C and the CIDG Company to the south and west of the bunker complex. They would then close back to LZ “Rio” during the night of 18 November. Their plan was to patrol south to the bunker complex in front of Company B and the CIDG Company. With one squad of engineers that accompanied them, Company C was to initiate the clearing of a LZ near the complex. After Company B and the CIDG Company closed into the bunker area, Company C was to patrol in conjunction with the CIDG to south,west, and then to the north, back to LZ “Rio”. They were to go to within 1 1/2 Km of the Cambodian-Vietnamese border, keeping the CIDG on their right flank as they made a sweep clockwise around the bunker complex.

              The CIDG Company planned to patrol on an axis parallel to Company B to LZ “Rio”, and then south to the bunker complex. From the bunker complex they planned to patrol on an axis parallel and on the right flank of Company C, in their sweep of the area around the bunker complex.

              The Recon Platoon was attached to the CIDG Company and planned to work with them.

              The movement went as planned during the morning of 19 November 1966. Company C moved out to the bunker complex with Company B and the CIDG moving up behind two axis. Soon Company C reached a fairly open area and broke for chow while Company B and CIDG moved through them toward the bunker area. The CIDG were on the West, Company B was on the east and the Recon Platoon was in the center as they moved south.

              At 1207 hours, Company B’s right flank began to receive small arms fire and grenades from the Southeast at YA605500. Shortly thereafter, the “point” of the CIDG began receiving heavy automatic fire from the front and right flank. The point fell back and the rest of the Company immediately came up on line. This put Company B, Recon and CIDG on line in that order from east to west.

              The entire line began to advance under heavy small arms fire and were hit extremely hard from the west, on the Recon Platoon’s right flank. Company B was also receiving heavy fire from the front. Col. Procter decided to use Company C as the maneuver element and move them up on the west to come in on the Recon Platoon’s right flank and relieve the pressure.

              Company C started to move up from the west when they were hit hard and were slowed considerably in their advance. The enemy occupied positions in the bunkers as well as covering all approaches and dead space by well-concealed snipers. The enemy force at times looked like walking trees due to the expert use of natural foliage to conceal themselves. The Recon Platoon, most heavily engaged, found themselves butt stroking and bayoneting fanatical enemy troops. The NVA were individually maneuvering and twice charged the Recon Platoon and were twice repelled.

              The Dragon machine gunners were ripping the trees to shreds looking for the well-concealed snipers. The enemy force controlled their fire proving that they were a well-trained and disciplined unit. Our men fought for their fallen comrades.

              The evacuation of the wounded became extremely hazardous, but was carried out w1th extreme courage. A force, including Pfc Miles D. Cooper, was mustered when it became necessary to evacuate the seriously wounded in Co B.  Displaying great devotion to his men and his unit, and with complete disregard for his own personal safety, he provided covering and suppressive fires long after the evacuation force had withdrawn. While attempting to withdraw himself, he was shot and killed by a hidden sniper.

              Specialist Four Dwight L. Basey, A member of the 3rd Platoon, Company B, while personally carrying casualties from the perimeter was shot from an enemy position. Disregarding his wound, he continues to advance under fire to retrieve fallen comrades from exposed positions. While attempting to resupply a machine crew, death overcame him.

              Specialist Four Robert G. Rudolph, an RTO in the 1st Platoon, Company B, while attempting to maintain inter-company communications, was also shot and killed by an enemy sniper.

              Specialist Four Michael B. Swangin, a gunner in the 3rd Platoon, Company B, while maintaining a commanding firing position, was shot and killed while giving suppressive fire for the evacuation force.

              The Recon Platoon contributed to a huge number of the acts of heroism during the intense 6-hour ordeal. Specialist Four Herbert Carson Shupe and Company C’s Robert Serrano, both medics, while tending the wounds of Capt. Audley M. Federline, were both shot to death by direct automatic weapons fire.

              SSgt Jesse L. Harris was immediately wounded while leading his men in an assault on a series of well-concealed bunkers. While receiving aid from one of the other members of his team, he was shot again and died in the arms of his men.

              Specialist Four Lewis R. Kirby and Pfc James Ohlinger, while acting as point men in the aggressive assault, were killed instantly by an incoming mortar round.

              Pfc Gregory Bielicki, while laying an extremely effective base of fire down for the assaulting team, was shot and killed by a sniper.

              Specialist Four Frankie L. Priest was cut down by a machine gun while attempting to bring his radio up to the squad leader.

              Specialist Four Edmund V. Dlugokinski and Pfc James Kennard were both killed by machine gun fire while attempting to retrieve a fallen comrade.

              Company C’s acts of valor included Sgt. Ted Belcher’s falling on an enemy grenade; Ssgt Robert Machado and Pfc Joseph McCown trying to aid the torn soldiers, were both cut down by enemy snipers. Capt. Audley M. Federline, Company Commander of Company C, was wounded in the chest by an enemy sniper. Later that night, this new but highly distinguished officer died of the wound. After the wounded and dead were evacuated, all three companies pulled back to an LZ and spent the night.

              The enemy accounted for the death of a total of 18 Golden Dragons; however, the Golden Dragons killed an estimated 280 enemy troops and 166 of their bodies were left in the field. The day was a hard fought battle in which the Dragons, once again, proved themselves too much for the enemy to handle. The enemy force the men encountered was believed to be two battalions from the 33rd Regiment, LE LOI Division. None of the Dragons will ever forget this savage fight or any of their fallen comrades.

              There were men awarded the Distinguished Service Cross in this action:

              1 Lt Frank G Primmer         HHC
              Sp4 Ronald K Westfall        HHC
              PSGT Wm J. Wickward HHC

              Wickward was later killed durning another Tour 8-27-69 with the 1st division.

              ALL GAVE SOME , SOME GAVE ALL

              Semper Fi 8541

    45. Be informed says:

      @ lonelonmum. That was really interesting about the spread of a pandemic. The CDC and others such as the World Health Organization have some ridiculous plan out in case there was a case or two of smallpox all of a sudden discovered. They use what is called ringed containment. This is where everyone exposed is immediately vaccinated from all known spots where the cases were discovered and the movement thereof. This is nothing but propagnada to give a false sense of security to the public.

      In reality if smallpox got loose in any crowd of people there would be individuals not accounted for and the spread would be explosive and uncontrollable. The first wave would hit after about 7 to 14 days, average time 10 days. Unless it is the India variant of smallpox that has an incubation time of 1 to 5 days. People would be vaccinated in this country, but would spread within 4 or 5 cycles, about a month to 6 weeks to millions easily. This is with the vaccine for smallpox that would slow it down consdierably.

      A respiratory type of super virus that is spread through upper airways, the nose, mouth, throat would spread as fast as people travel. In other words, something that has a short incubation period like the flu that is about 1-3 days would be worldwide in a week or two. The real key here is just how contagious is it. The amount of viral particles that will make someone sick will determine just how quickly it will spread. You have something that takes a smaller amount of individual viruses than something such as smallpox and you will have the end of civilization if the virus has a fatality rate that of Marburg or Ebola. I could see something like this naturally coming out of India or some other monsoon wet type of hot humid slum hellholes.

      The economic destruction of the world is also determined by the morbidity rate. The more laid up people are that can’t work, the quicker the economy goes into the toilet. You could have a virus that kills few but causes people much recovery time and thus flatten all of society that depends on people to be on the job, like power plant workers, truck drivers, etc.

      Nature comes up with killers of species from animal to plant. First you look at how deadly it is. Anything within 20% or higher is real bad. Then you look at how it is spread, has to be through the upper airways, touch won’t do it like Ebola spreads. Like the bird flu that is basically deep in the lungs usually won’t spread it rapidly. Then how many viral particles it takes to make you sick. Then a very important issue, how long does the virus stay alive and kicking in the air and on surfaces. Something that has resistance to UV light, air temperatures, water, etc. is the nightmare. Factor these all together and the perfect storm hits and good-bye society.

      Every prepper/survivalist should have plans to deal with such a virus because it is coming from nature or from a lab. Viruses show up suddenly throughout history. People isolated from such a plague have a much better chance. High density populations with spread a pathogen like heat up a chimney stack. Has happened throughout human history. The prepper that can stay away from the sick with a good supply of what they need will have the best chance of living through it. The prepper/survivalist that practices sanitizing everything will fare even better.

      • Hunter says:

        l’mum-

        Good post.

        Back in the early 1990′s a defecting scientist from the Soviet bio-weapons program -(Biopreparat)-, alleged during one of his many debriefings, that the Russians had enormous stockpiles of “weaponized smallpox on hand.”

        The stockpiles included refrigerated/cryogenic (missile delivered) warheads, as well as artillery rounds/bombs etc.

        The defecting scientist was Dr.Ken Alibek who stated the weaponized-strain was engineered to be extremely, vaccine resistant!

        ..meanwhile, US govt sources to this day, continue to claim that Dr.Alibek’s information:

        Has never been “independently verified.

        —————-

        IMO, verification will occur when TPTB decide to release/test its contagion-capacity and lethality..those whom they consider:

        ..useless eaters!

      • Socrates says:

        Actually the gov has already planned for just such a scenario…imagine that. All those FEMA coffins that are so very large are because ALOT of the US population is grossly overweight…and large. Take a look at H.R. 6566 (112th): Mass Fatality Planning and Religious Considerations Act

        They already know that a mass die-off will create the conditions needed for another bubonic plague (The Black Death)which killed millions. It is already breaking out again on the island of Madagascar. Many of those who die got it from moving the dead bodies of others.

        In this next round of history there will be no mass grave sites for future generations to discover and ponder what happened…our disease ridden remains will be airlifted and dumped into any number of active volcanoes. There is not enough real estate to bury millions anyway- not without creating more of a health risk. Volcanoes are natures crematoriums and it makes logistical sense to use them. Plus, no evidence whatsoever of any kind for future generations to discover. Think about that.

    46. watching and waiting says:

      In any type of collapse, personal hygiene and the treatment
      of injuries/wounds is just as important as having a well stocked food pantry and ammunition and weapons.

      One little germ/inflection could wreak you life.
      When I developed my bug-out-bags for a non immediate emergency deployment/evacuation, one of those bags was dedicated to first aid items from,cuts, burn treatment to gunshot wounds. In my go to war bag, military type field dressings and band-aids and wraps.
      First aid items is not a subject usually not covered. Everyone seems to focus on personal protection with their weapons and stocking their pantries,etc…….

      This past week, a blogger commented on Epson Salt and its benefits and I purchased a bag based on that bloggers
      comments…..thanks…..

      One blogger, The Canadian Vet wrote that he was on the fence regarding bugging out, so am I. Unless your house is burnt down, I would stay home. If I lived in a responsible neighborhood, I think that a community watch team can be developed to protect each other. It would require an investment in night vision/thermal devices for weapons and binoculars day and night. You have to level the playing field.

      While on this subject, I think some of the home defense plans some people have need to be redressed. I think some people believe that their walls will provide some/adequate protection from incoming fire(you personally might not).

      Some people will expose part of their upper body to shoot out a window….. Things like this people need to reconsider and as you read this posts subject, you have to think things out, be quite, watch and listen, observe for a period. A large part of your survival will be clothing,
      clothing that blends in with your background…..surroundings and stuff you carry that rattles………..and shines………

      I say, be as quite as a mouse and as deadly/stealthy as a viper….as needed

      Merry Christmas………..

    47. Tip of the week

      Spent about 1000 bucks on books when they are five for a dollar . When local thrift stores have inventory clearance sales . Ever seen a round that will go through a few of them 40 pound dictionaries from the 1900′s ? )

      Plus there are tons of ancient science , engineering , etc useful books. I may not be able too utilize them all , however someone else might too rebuild. Knowledge is the best weapon system.

    48. Be informed says:

      Something more about the tiny little assassians known as germs. After the SHTF in Haiti, the death count stands at around 300,000 that died in the earthquake. This does not take the count of all those that died from gangrene and other infections that immediately followed and continued for months after because of the injuries from the earthquake. IF the Red Cross and other help organizations had not gotten antibiotics into these regions the death count could have easier been 1-2 million. There won’t be any help groups after SHTF on a widescale.

      Urban areas harbor death because of the lack of santitation. Even in squalid hovel where the people have constant contact with this filth, they die in hoardes each day. Places in the Sub Sahara regions, India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, and many other tropic regions people die from lack of clean water and clean surroundings. That is now, before SHTF. Try to imagine many places in the American south where the temperatures are constantly warm and humid during the late spring to early autumn months when there is no santitation and people have no resistance against being exposed to these waves of disease.

      Anyone that has seen disease spread in hospitals that don’t have reverse air filtration systems, HEPA 99.98%, is because germs will travel along the base of the floors where the cooler air sinks, right under doorways to patient’s rooms. In the urban setting germs will spread up and down everywhere and in higher concentrations than anyone could imagine. Urban settings are death traps for disease. Even without SHTF before modern ways of keeping clean those that wanted to save alive during these outbreaks knew to get out of the city to the countryside.

      Anyone hear of the disease called Typhus? Probably few have heard about it because it is under control because of cleaner environments and because anyone that gets it has treatments for it, antibiotics. It is spread by body lice and through rats and other vermin. People untreated for this gets a deep rash, high fever, stupor and delirium, massive headache, and then death. Exposure to other people with the disease, animals, and those that are carrying it around on their persons is normally how this is transmitted. The post SHTF urban setting will be rampant with this disease.

      The course of action is probably better to bug out to anyplace than be caught up in the apocalyptic urban nightmare in which disease will be more than prevalent than anyone hunting for you and your supplies. Syria right now, because of the lack of medical supplies getting to those that need it, are having extreme death rate from disease. This is from people that have not even been wounded either.

      As a further example of the urban disease that will kill people after a SHTF like bugs in a roach motel, look at these infant mortality rates of countries in which sanitation is and where it is not in these densely packed cities.

      Japan 2.3 per 1000 people
      France 3.3
      Italy 3.4
      Spain 3.4
      Germany 3.5
      Israel 4.1
      Denmark 4.2
      South Korea 4.2
      New Zealand 4.8
      Canada 4.9
      Greece 5.0
      Taiwan 5.2
      USA 6.1
      Chile 7.3
      China 16.1
      Iran 42.3
      India 47.6
      Bangladesh 50.7
      Pakistan 63.3
      Nigeria 75.8

      Little infants under 1 year of age are very vulnerable to disease and why you have these extreme rates 10 to 15 times higher than countries that are very densely packed with people like most European countries and Japan. This is because disease is under control and santitation is strictly enforced. SHTF and these urban places will become as bad or worse than places like India. It will happen very quickly also. Human fecal material is loaded with E-coli, streptococcus and staph, salmonella, and countless others that will make you sick beyond imagination. People don’t really think about this but flies will spread death by the wings to everything they land on. Flies also can spread disease by biting you, something in central African that is very pronounced.

      ONLY reason again Hurricane Katrina victims did not die in mass was because of the antibiotics that got in there in time after people were exposed to this soup of bacteria everywhere. Everyone also got tentanus shots after being in the water with all their scratches and wounds.

      Advice is really to attempt to get away from the urban setting as quickly as possible after SHTF. Gang members will not be the thing that is likely to take you down. No it will be something you can’t see and that will be EVERYWHERE and made only worse as more people die, people exposed themselves to others and the environemt, and more hoardes of pests take control of what is left of the city.

      • Thinker says:

        BI; You know we all sit behind our computers day after day and get and give information on how to get prepared on the events that we have control over,but i just can’t wrap my head around not doing something about it?? In my opinion as some others on hear share know who and what the problems are? but just continue to stay in our comfort zone and not do a thing about it! I know that i don’t want to see my loved ones go thru what Selco did, when we can prevent that outcome! We are running out of time for that change.
        There are currently uprisings all over the world taking place because of their tyrannical governments yet we sit here and wait for someone else to repair ours? I have posted many times before about iceland showing us the way ,and today an other article about how they just prosecuted one of the bankers and gave him a sentence of 5 years in jail,and or continuing to prosecute the various banks for their involvement,while we sit and watch as our government allows the privately owned Fed Reserve Bank to print over 80 billion a month to give to the “too big to fail” institutions? While continuing to legislate new laws and amendments to come after “We the People” one family at a time!
        But i also see some positive things that are taking place in certain States, that are creating State militia to combat the feds military goons when they come!
        I may be old,and maybe most of my life is over? but if i can do anything to stop this from happening and hand these problems to my progeny i am going to! ( even if i die trying)
        For those that still believe we can make a difference politically, contact your state reps. and tell them how you feel and find out what they are doing about it? i personally have joined and are continuing to pursue organization such as oath keepers and others in the pursuit of the ” Hope and Change” we so desperately need, before we pass this mess on to our children?
        Become involved and “Active” before something geophysical happens and we won’t have any control of the outcome!!!

        Thinker

        • Be informed says:

          @ Thinker. Everyone may be behind the safety and comfort zone but we are all learning from each other. There is absolutely nothing that any of us can do about Mother Nature, a supervirus, or something that has absolutely nothing to with human society. Even a nuclear war by accident is nothing we can do anything about. A very positive thing you can think about is that preppers/survivalists are the future of what is left after a mega SHTF happens.

          Even with a collapse of society that severity of it in comparison to a natural super calamity is nothing. Each one of us has something to add to the aftermath and eventual recovery. Like the movie “The Postman” society did recover, the survivors took upon themselves to rekindle a dead society.

          I know what you are saying, hope, but that hope in my opinion rests in the 1% that take it upon themselves to prepare individually or in a group. I don’t like to be cynical, but the 99% are not going to listen until something happens big enough to get their attention, then it will be too late. I look at these mega diasters like the Philippines, the hurricanes, the earthquakes like in Japan, Haiti, Indonesia, tornadoes, etc. that continue to happen and yet no one pays attention and that number of preppers is still 1%. Not 2% or 5%, still 1%. There are a few people that catch on, these are diamonds in the rough. The vast majority of the population are stuck on stupid and they are not going to take the action to save themselves and their country.

          Iceland is a tiny country with about 315,000 people with a rich traditional independent nature on an island that is very centralized where everyone knows each other. New Zealand could become another Iceland, but Europe, Canada, the U.S. and others, the people just don’t care and even the best most charismatic leader would face a daunting task of being listened to. As long as BO and these leaders can keep people have fed and dependent on the state, and in fear of lsoing that, most people will just not listen. Sorry for being so down on this.

          That is why strength must come for those willing to be storng and not be some android of society. Most everyone here is tomorrow. The vast majority of people are the present and past of a dying and decaying civilization. I hope you and others see all the good that people do within these survival communities by preparing and learning the best we can for the future after something does come down.

          • Thinker says:

            Bi; That is why i said at the end, that if we don’t change what we can that after a geo physical event it will be to late!! I may be cynical by saying this but if we continue to let the shtf happen in my opinion the ods of survival is probably about like winning the lottery 1 in 14 million thats about 23 people left in the US not very good odds huh?

            Thinker

            • slingshot says:

              Thinker.

              So what will you change? How would you change it?

              • Thinker says:

                Slingshot;Excuse me for not getting back to you in reply. I had to go scrape out an existence,which is getting harder each day knowing where the bulk of my production is consumed. ( Taxes fees, insurance, permits) and thats before i personally get to see any rewards of my labor because of more (taxes,fees,insurance,permits) oh and and not forget the usury fees?
                Like i said we need to use iceland and what they have done as a model. Go to the commonsenseshow.com and read the article by Dave Hodges titled Bankers Arrested,Civil War Averted,Economy on the Rebound. he has some good ideas on what needs to be done.
                I want to thank POG for article below on the easy road that people want to follow, as well as her and Them Guys well researched truths about the evil usury money changers that have perpetuated our system of governing.
                Yes we definitely need a reset but if we wait until this happens its going to be much harder if not impossible to re establish a better form of governing.We have the technology today that would make it so much easier.
                imho we need to get rid of the fed reserve and the bankers that control us through that usury.Why are they allowed to borrow money from us and re lend it out to capture the profits with no accountability if it fails,we the people are! (I wish i could borrow money for nothing to run my business,while making it someone else problem if through pour decisions ran it in the ground)
                We the people need a political purge and get rid of the whole broken corrupt political system that allow this federal reserve and establish our own.(like Kennedy wanted to way back in his administration,which did not end well for him or us.
                Seems to me the way our system is set up by allowing so many legislator, Senators and so on based on population is ripe for corruption from the lobbyist They have less people to bribe that way. Just like our voting system is corrupted by the people that count the votes and not the people that cast the votes elects these puppets IE Obama?
                We have the technology today (computers) for the people to get involved with hands on voting of issues that may arise instead of the few that are allowed to sit and pass laws against the citizens ,as well as vote their own self raises that we should never allow!
                As for as me personally, all i can do is start with the like minded,Individuals,groups etc.such as we have here and asked that question to everyone hear.( What would you do? ) Even though our numbers are small some of the smartest minds on a broad spectrum of subjects are here,we can come up with some better solutions than what represents us today.
                Our system have become very complicated and corrupt and changes are never easy.All of us here need to come up with some better solutions on our way to becoming as prepared as we can and whats needed, in the hopes of averting whats coming!!
                OK Slingshot and everyone give us your thoughts???

                Thinker

                • Them Guys says:

                  Hey THINKER: Thanks for the nice compliment. Those are Very Rare for me around here!!….For an even more eye opening amount of info etc….Especially info that fully answers silver sax’s repetitious question, and totally Refutes his stance regarding that particualr question of his, check this website out! Entire page is great info but Pay Close atten to answers for Question#3!!!

                  www dot biblestudysite dot com/qtarc3 dot htm

                  If you have the time, like one hour or so Read the Entire Page top to bottom!! Then tell me what ya think..Thinker!

                  MORE: Solid Proof evidence than one can shake that proverbial stick at!….Them Guys

                • slingshot says:

                  Thinker.

                  Well I am as bad as you in getting a reply back. Up front, I was wondering where all the animals were going in the hunt club. Well, we now have a poacher and he is good at it. Enough said.

                  There are plenty things to change. Not many people would approve of my methods.

                  First the education of children of US History from the start. Weed out all the stupid stuff and teach the basics on how this country was built.

                  You don’t work you don’t eat. Simple.

                  Manufacturers either keep the jobs here in the states or completely move EVERYTHING to the country of their choice of business. No deal like General Motors building SEVEN NEW CAR PLANTS IN CHINA!

                  The bankers have to stop all the wiz-bang computer rigs and level the playing field for the common man.

                  Lawyers (Ambulance Chasers) would have to stop stupid lawsuits that drive up prices. If you are going to be stupid, You better be to tough.

                  Crime? You MURDER a person with a gun you may be executed after One TRIAL! Goes for sex offenders too.

                  Parents should be able to correct their children IN PUBLIC without FEAR of going to JAIL. I am not talking child abuse. Screw time out, BEAT the ASS. They better remember the consequences of their actions.

                  Politicians and the laws of today. A Bad Law is No Law! They will not line their pockets with money and benefits and spend money on stupid things.

                  One thing for sure is, if I live through this and I do not think there will be much law, I will not have the same shit going on today in the future.

                  I would teach responsibility for your actions.

            • Them Guys says:

              I Hope everybody is- Dreaming of a WHITE CHRISTMASS!!!
              (My all time Favorite Christmass holiday song!)

              That goes Double for all them Self Hater, Self Loathing, Guilt Ridden Liberal Kommie folk that so Polute America with wrong headed notions and agendas!

        • Pissed Off Granny says:

          Just read an article: DENIAL IS THE EASY PATH

          Most people who embark on an “uncomfortable” subject are not afraid of TRUTH and FREEDOM but if we look around us, unfortunately most of time THIS IS WHAT WE SEE:

          People AFRAID of truth and freedom. Being a slave to a system removes responsibility and allows the most common state of man …..BLAME.

          It is the left wing, the right wing, the progressives, liberals, zionists bla,bla,bla. No amount of ACTIONLESS blame will change a thing…..ever.

          When our government system is broke and we do not move to find out why, we, in all reality, should not open our mouths, or set around our family and buddies getting loaded and complaining.

          But this is the human way, complaining is the easy way out of responsibility. DENIAL is the quickest step to preserving what one wants their reality to be, whether that reality is true or not.

          REMEMBER, at all times, the two SCARIEST things on this planet are TRUTH AND FREEDOM to governments/institutions because with truth comes freedom and those governments/institutions will lose the very slaves they wish to control.

          Our nation has become a nation of lovers of lies and we can see our freedoms being compromised daily.

          THINKERS post reminds us that denial and inaction is what has allowed the government to become the MONSTER that it is today. I pray for leaders like Thinker to help show us the way to extricate us from the mess America is in. Thanks for your post Thinker…..

      • Pissed Off Granny says:

        Yes, but worth another peep.

        When that article shows any respect for people like Noam Chomsky, David Cobb, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren and the MOVE TO AMEND crew, I think most of us here would realize we need to look deeper down the “rabbit hole” of what the above people represent.

        Go to the movetoamend website and check out their executive committee. You will find them to be activists that support the “Occupy Movement” mindset as to what America should look like.

        We need to always check out the people who are pushing these agendas. Funny how they name their agendas something we think we can get on board with such as Move to Amend. We need to check out just what they are asking to amend.

        We also need to know how a Constitutional Convention will affect the original Constitution. Seems nowadays that any change these people want to make ends up to be something entirely different than we were led to believe.

        The Affordable? Care? Act? come to mind, anyone? Sure sounded good to the masses didn’t it?

        Please do a lot of research before you support any organization.

    49. Be informed says:

      Just had a precursor quake in the exact same spot that occurred back 3 years ago that 8 days later lead to the mega 8.8 earthquake in Chile. This same spot also lead to the Hawaii earthquake of Oct.2006. Many major earthquakes have followed in South and Central America after this same spot goes off in the past. It is south end of the Nazca plate and leads to major earthquakes 100% of the time in the past records. Something very large is still coming soon.

    50. ScoutMotto says:

      Tanner gun show in Loveland Colorado today.

    51. The Rifleman Next Door says:

      I’ve given several paychecks worth of preparedness money to the SUarez group and I am quite satisfied with their gear:

      http://www.onesourcetactical.com/

      has some great gear on sale right now and free shipping on orders over $100. Their tactical training for rifle and pistol is pretty dammed good as well…

      http://www.suarezinternationalstore.com/classschedule.aspx

      remember that WTSHTF and the shooting starts nobody rises to the occasion…they sink to their level of training.

    52. Nopittypartyhere says:

      Article on Drudge says NYC rents decreasing steadily…..is it all the smart folks blowing out of town, or are we starting to enter a period of deflation?

      • The Old Coach says:

        The smart money is leaving. So says my financial SIL, who moved his office from Manhattan to New Jersey a couple of years ago. Mostly for the taxes, but also personal safety. Final straw is deBlaster coming in as Mayor. Look for NYC to have crime rates like Chicago, Detroit, and East St. Louis before long, on top of yet more taxation.

      • Pissed Off Granny says:

        Nopitypartyhere:

        Just all the “in the know” rats jumping ship because they know what the new administration is cooking up.

    53. Nopittypartyhere says:

      Neshoba county MS gun show at Neshoba coliseum dec 21 & 22.

    54. slingshot says:

      Reading through the posts, there is plenty of good advise. The problem is every good plan has its flaws and strong points. Every plan is limited by what we can afford, physically do or the space to store supplies. We are limited by the knowledge obtained, training, and ability to used the materials to their maximum potential. Then you may become susceptible to prepper overload. Too much shit to worry about. Can you imagine what the first time reader thinks as he reads our comments? The more hardened preppers at this site endure the more horrendous information because, as in my case,we have become somewhat desensitized. Selco reached that point to survive. Will we have to do the same?
      In closing, do not expect others to do what you will do. People change as they are faced with reality and hardship. Some for the better and others for the worse.

    55. Calgacus says:

      Anyone who lives in the city or outlying communities needs to get out asap. The proof is in current events. The reality of what happens if you ignore the proof is what Selco lived through.
      #1 prep for urban dwellers when tshtf: move. You see this shit coming, dont ignore your instincts, do it now. If you dont do #1, survival is so reduced, why bother.

      #1 prep for suburban dwellers when tshtf: the fortified house. Barncat wrote about adding in cinderblocks and thats a great prep for the thin walled homes in todays construction. Bricks, cinderblocks, stone work best. Check ballistics and strengthen the home and your chances for survival against firepower are greatly improved. If outside stone/brick cant be added, consider removing drywall with replacement bulletproof materials.

      These are pretty hard choices and the average asswipe will think your odd. Make up a story to serve there idiot needs. But get your house in order, we are going down and its going to be worse than bad and it will sure be a longer hell than I once thought.

      Who here dont think this shit will happen? If you dont think so why are you here. If you need more proof go ask the opinions of those top brass who were shitcanned this year. Think about the number of underground tunnels and bunkers for the DC crowd. Check how many laws Obama has broken with his imperial commands. Better yet, just make a list of all the damn lies weve all heard come from our president. Then make a list of all the govt agencies breaking the law to serve their evil ways. Start with NSA. Add the IRS. Add DHS. Add in HHS. Now you get the idea.

      If you believe theyre so stupid they cant make the Obamacare site work then explain how they can cancel out unemployment benefits in a keystroke or two. And how do they cut the EBT benefits so fast?

      These bastards are planning to destroy us in every way they can manage. There are too many of us. If they cull us down we are a more manageable size.

      • buttcrackofdoom says:

        i was looking for a bulletproof vest a while back and stumbled on a glass-installer going out of business(moving out of kali…who’da thunk that one). i bought a truckload of b/p glass for 185 dollars, and after talking with the guy about what’s happ’nin, he gave me 2 guns to boot!(i feel they were worth the price of the glass alone) point being, watch for cheap bulletproof glass to spread around the house when the excrement contacts the mass of rotating twisted metal…it’s out there…oh, yes, the vests too! i used to buy ‘em for less than fifty, but i suppose now that we are so close…the price is at 75 to 100 often….and bought steel plates for 75 each at the gunshow recently. remember, when you bury a politician, bury ‘em deep, cause deep down they’re good people!

      • for Cal;
        good points; for nosy neighbors, it is a “tornado shelter.” don’t forget a backyard “koi pond” both for fish and water.

        • Calgacus says:

          That would work in some places. Root cellars are dug around here Richard. Cellars and also spring houses to keep dairy foods cool were real common near the creeks and spring heads.

    56. i used to work in a state mental hospital , locked wards-crazy shit – mayhem -all day everyday. very emotionally draining and dangerous..this is all good information .
      there were days when i was actually disoriented after a shift. final day i got to work and sat in my car for hours, i just could not take myself in there. co- workers got me to come in and we decided i was done.. this was years ago , yeah it rubbed off on me.
      they say i have ptsd, mood disorder after i did my 72 hr observation.. yep it was rather comical to be on the other end of the haldol darts..i was so raggedity from lack of sleep i fit right in.. i regained alot of my balance though..
      do not take the ssri dope!!! – they will be the zombies for real.
      - as to skate boards- my navajo buddy rode his up the road to basra during desert storm ..i got on one – once – i’m a survivalist, those things are hazard i’m better off without.!
      - so who pissed in petersons cornflakes anyway? never mind , it probly suits him fine.

    57. CuzzinJim says:

      In my opinion, it will be difficult to know how one will react if SHTF. And I agree with the premise that violence will become the norm, and fortunately, I have good neighbors that I totally trust, and we are on the same page. I live in an urban area, so being able to cut and run will most likely be out of the question. What hurts is, I have a decent chunk of land in the rural Appalachian mountains, but getting there would be the trick. I find myself amused at the folks on “Doomsday Preppers” that have their half million dollar bunkers 400 miles from where they live. Good luck getting there dummies. Unless you know every back alley, dirt road, and or horse path, travel will be VERY restricted. Hell, one good accident will clog up an interstate for 50 miles. Total anarchy, well, everyone here knows the deal.

      I am somewhat prepared, but in the grand scheme of things, it will be a toss up if the real deal happens. And yes, most in America think we are too civilized to resort to violence. Let people get hungry one good time with their babies crying for food. All bets are off.

      • gone under says:

        @ Jim…bury your stuff there. Get a dirt bike with a aftermarket rack on back and a aftermarket over size gas tank. Load your backpack with food water clothing and a short barreled 12 gauge on a sling. Study google earth routes. You’ll get there.

        • CuzzinJim says:

          The trick would be getting the family there. I will most likely hunker down and see what happens. Too bad I’m not more optimistic about this country. It is still full of great patriotic folks, but we’ve let the .gov run amok for 90 years and we are starting to reap the consequences of apathy. It’s a damn shame.

        • Smokey says:

          Not just study the route on Google Earth, get in your rig one weekend and drive it. Then drive it backwards, and note other alternates while doing so.

          If you know someone on the way, stash a can of gas there, and a bit of food and water, box of shells, you may need it. If you don’t need it, give it to your buddy.

          • The Old Coach says:

            Impossible to do on a bike, but in my van I have an old laptop loaded with deLorme Topo, with their accessory GPS. Been doing it since 1999. Numerous times I’ve been able to duck around traffic jams and such because the map shows all the side roads, and also where you are real-time.

    58. maudy fricket says:

      DuPage County gun show, Jan.5th. Wheaton, Il.

    59. Pat in Florida says:

      As bad and real as the author wants to make chaos sound to you, he still actually glosses over some, while whispering admissions in the end.. pretty much nothing is certain..
      “Those who are prepared and are willing to adapt will survive.”
      In reality, unless you build an absolutely impenetrable fortress, if there is such a thing, life may still amount to a matter of luck. Humans aren’t made w/eyes on the back of our heads.. we all tend to have our blind spots, in some form or other, that can be caught off guard.. this is quietly admitted in “I’m not jolly good fellow bringing only good news and definitive solutions to keep you alive. (There are none, you can just make chance to get killed or dying smaller by knowing more and making better decision)”
      Now, I have to applaud the author in his pointing out how these prepper sites can distort reality and build the wrong kind of collective sense, such as with his skateboard example. I have to laugh at how some sites try to make you idealists that you will be the brave hero w/the rifle. They do so to the point that when I bring up the point that your weiner rifle will likely be no defense again a marauding gang w/machine guns, I get censored.. such as on theeconomiccollapseblog.com where Michael, who I could on at length about, has banned me from blogging on.
      Good luck, but don’t over-hype yourself or fall in love w/false gurus.

      • gone under says:

        Marauding gang with machine guns…..how many of them will there be? Agree on the guru’s. they are after the $$$, But still get people to think.

        • Facebook Page says:

          There will be a short lived period in a complete collapse that will be an issue. But they will have a finite live.

          • Hunter says:

            Facebook-

            In a complete collapse scenario, I would tend to agree w/ your assessment…to a point, but I hesitate to define a time-span limit, where relative safety descends across the land.
            As there are always uncertain variables that will come into play.

            For instance, the prevalent seasonal weather conditions at the time the collapse occurs.
            Late spring-summer would tend to stretch/extend the duration of the horrors, while a dead of winter episode would compress/shorten its lifespan…at least above the latitudes of the deep south & southwest.

            Mother Nature is pretty damn good by herself, when it comes to ambush tactics/guerrilla warfare, she can be an equal opportunity killer also.

            There’s a shit load of critters & poisons in the wild that can take down urban fleeing zombies!
            ..everything from tick-borne diseases, wild hogs/packs of wild dogs, bears, giardia to hypothermia. The list is a lengthy one indeed.

            ..and afterwards, sooner or later the good folks here & elsewhere, are gonna have to contend w/ the Agenda-21 driven, continuity-of-govt cretins…once they emerge from their taxpayer-funded bunkers.

            ..just theorizing, of course!

            Anyway, +1 to ya.

        • Pat in Florida says:

          I wouldn’t underestimate the possibility. Drug lords are likely to get even craftier as situations arise and distributing Uzis could make a lucrative sideline.

          • Kevin2 says:

            Pat in Florida

            If things collapse like many predict the cash flow for illegal drugs will rapidly dry up and quite possibly the value of the money itself. Devoid of personal discipline they will be the first to go.

            • lonelonmum says:

              Drug lords are used to territory battles of the worst sort. They are already familiar with the slave trade (trafficking I think the pc term is now)> they’ve sent their minions into the military for training already.

              They don’t have to physically farm themselves, they just have to demand protection “taxes” from those that do. We’ve already seen the willingness of a tame population to trade their freedom for security (unless those TSA checkpoints are a figment of my imagination). 1/2 your harvest or your daughter?

              In the Balkans brothers sold their own sisters in the worst kinds of ways for the most base of reasons (greed). The weak will surrender to the most ruthless.

              Drug lords in today’s society could easily become tomorrow’s warlords and from there evolve into a new feudal “aristocracy”. Smooth talking has only in recent times trumped brute force when it comes being top dog.

            • lonelonmum says:

              Drug lords are used to territory battles of the worst sort. They are already familiar with the slave trade (trafficking I think the pc term is now)> they’ve sent their minions into the military for training already.

              They don’t have to physically farm themselves, they just have to demand protection “taxes” from those that do. We’ve already seen the willingness of a tame population to trade their freedom for security (unless those TSA checkpoints are a figment of my imagination). 1/2 your harvest or your daughter?

              In the Balkans brothers sold their own sisters in the worst kinds of ways for the most base of reasons (greed). The weak will surrender to the most ruthless.

              Drug lords in today’s society could easily become tomorrow’s warlords and from there evolve into a new feudal “aristocracy”. Smooth talking has only in recent times trumped brute force when it comes being top dog.

      • Selco says:

        People want to trust in easy solutions, for example they want to hear that they gonna be OK when SHTF just because they have particular type of gun or equipment or similar, or being right and wrong, good and bad etc. Media from all sides bombarding us with info “how to survive”, and people preparing for it basing on some folks fantasies.
        They want to trust that there is honor and romance there, heroism etc.
        When SHTF and bullets start to fly around head everything sound and look different.

      • braveheart says:

        Pat in FL, welcome aboard, and what part of FL? I lived in Miami 1975-1982. braveheart

    60. Old Vet says:

      “The sky was all purple
      There were people runnin’ everywhere
      Tryin’ to run from the destruction
      You know I didn’t even care…
      Oops out of time,
      So tonight I’m gonna party like it’s 19[3]9.”
      –Prince, “1999”

      • buttcrackofdoom says:

        might as well throw in lynyrd skynyrd’s song. they sure were prophetic, weren’t they?

        One little problem that confronts you
        Got a monkey on your back
        Just one more fix, Lord might do the trick
        One hell of a price for you to get your kicks
        Ooooh that smell
        Can’t you smell that smell
        Ooooh that smell
        The smell of DEBT surrounds you
        Ooooh that smell
        Can’t you smell that smell
        Ooooh that smell
        The smell of DEBT surrounds you……………….
        DEBT, it WILL BE the death of america…..can’t say we weren’t warned. WTF have we left our grandchildren?

      • Jack Hammer says:

        Very poignant!

    61. Money Supply says:

      Just roll with what comes. Yeah, we’re all prepped up…every reader of this site.
      No worries…Just watch what goes down and hold it as external shit you don’t have control over. Kind of like the guy down the street that got fired… shtf for him..but you…you just got a bonus. All is well.

      Regards.

      • Kulafarmer says:

        Best advice ever,
        Just roll with whatever,
        Its easy to get caught up in details and the IFs
        I like the idea of having food, water, meds, protection and extra stuff for whatever, Murphy’s law!
        This business of predicting disaster is exactly what others on here say, trying to sell something.

    62. Satori says:

      all the doom and gloom you can stand ,condensed into one place

      Faber, Rogers, Dent, Maloney, & Stockman – What Do They Say Is Coming In 2014?

      http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-13/faber-rogers-dent-maloney-stockman-–-what-do-they-say-coming-2014

    63. KY Mom says:

      Faber, Rogers, Dent, Maloney, & Stockman – What Do They Say Is Coming In 2014?

      “Some of the most respected prognosticators in the financial world are warning that what is coming in 2014 and beyond is going to shake America to the core.”

      “The next wave of the economic collapse is rapidly approaching, and things are going to get much worse than this.”

      Multiple indicators…

      “…the whole thing is collapsing.”

      Zerohedge

    64. JohnFornaro says:

      Shallow analysis is a recipe for failure. Selco’s article was pretty interesting, and touched on several good points. I want to add my twist on the skateboard thing.

      Just read Cormack McCarthy’s “The Road”, an apocalyptic survival story. The father and son in the story pushed a grocery cart along the road. It had their worldly goods, blankets, food, a map, water, a pint of gasoline, a lighter, etc. They were bugging out, headed south to a warmer climate, in search for a group of moral human survivors.

      So yeah, having a skateboard could be pretty useful. If ya had two, and strapped them together side by side, you could carry some goods with you, towing the ensemble along with a piece of rope. Obviously, a grocery cart would be better.

      Consider the fantasy of riding around on your skateboard with your AR, shooting bad guys and fighting evil and all that. What if you get the death wobbles? What if the road is all gravelly and what have you? What if you take a spill? What if the bad guys know how to lead a shot?

      Bug in or bug out as the circumstances require. It may be that one has to bug in, in the city, IDK.

      Whatever your plan is, shallow analysis is a recipe for failure. As is false bravado, thinking that you’ll get in the first shot.

      Great article.

    65. Pissed Off Granny says:

      Four US presidents get caught up in a tornado — and off they whirl to the Land of Oz — they finally make it to the Emerald City and they go to find the Great Wizard.

      “What brings the four of you before the Great Wizard?”

      Jimmy Carter stepped forward rather timidly — “I’ve come for more courage”. “No problem”, said the Wizard, “who’s next?”

      Richard Nixon stepped forward and said “Well, I need a heart”. “Done”, said the Wizard.

      Up stepped Bush and said the American people think I need a brain. “No problem”, said the Wizard, “consider it done”.

      Then there was great silence in the hall. Bill Clinton is just standing there, looking around. But he doesn’t say a word. The Wizard finally asks “Well, what do you want?”

      “IS DOROTHY HERE”?

      • GreatAmericanRedoubt says:

        Don’t forget about when wizard asked the 5th president Obummer what he wanted…….

        “I want to be white, Up Tight,and Out of sight!”

        So the Wizard turned him into a Tampon!

    66. NC joe says:

      Those who are prepared and are willing to adapt will survive.

      This is a flat out lie. Being prepared may increase your chances of survival, but it is not a guarantee. That is why you idiots need to put as much, if not more, effort into preventing a collapse.

      • Pissed Off Granny says:

        NC Joe:

        Got any suggestions on how to prevent the collapse?

      • Jack Hammer says:

        There is little any of us can do to stop an economic collapse. This has been in play for decades and has taken a lot of effort on the elitists to bring the U.S. down to her knees. Corrupt politicians have destroyed the U.S. and turned it into a quagmire of gay communism filled with non working people and not enough jobs for those that want to work. Congress has been shipping our jobs off shore since the 70′s and now we are almost a completely unindustrialized country. We can’t make squat here anymore and the world knows it. Obama is the last tyrant in the big puzzle to push the U.S. from her knees into her grave. They want the country to fail and destroy the middle class. I wish it would just happen as soon as possible so we can all quit worrying about “when” and start working on recovering this country and getting rid of all the criminal politicians.
        Lock and Load time is coming soon!

        • Kevin2 says:

          Jack Hammer

          “There is little any of us can do to stop an economic collapse.”

          Rephrase that to NOTHING WE CAN DO.

          Its out of our control. Way way beyond our control. If it was within our control we wouldn’t be in this position to begin with.

          All votes for Free Trade sending you job overseas and to allow the Financial Industry to regulate itself raise your hand.

          ALL HANDS REMAIN IN POCKETS.

      • braveheart says:

        Ncjoe, if you have any ideas on how to prevent an economic collapse, I’ll go easy on you this time and I’m even willing to hear any ideas you have. As you well know it’s the government and Wall St. who have done all of this and brought us to this point. It’s true none of us are guaranteed tomorrow, let alone trying to make it from point A to point B in any SHTF scenario. ncjoe, this country is our home and we love it; we’re trying to save it. It’s your country and home too. I don’t know how you look at that, but I would think you would want to save this country too. ncjoe, we have all been affected by the economy and what TPTB have done to this nation. I swear if I ever come across any of those people I will personally put them out of their misery. So, once again, I ask you how do we the people prevent an economic collapse? braveheart

        • possee says:

          braveheart

          crickets

          possee

        • possee says:

          braveheart

          A little summation of where we are now..

          “The Lottery, with its weekly pay-out of enormous prizes, was the one public event to which the proles paid serious attention. It was probable that there were millions of proles for whom the Lottery was the principal if not the only reason for remaining alive. It was their delight, their folly, their anodyne, their intellectual stimulant. Where the Lottery was concerned, even people who could barely read and write seemed capable of intricate calculations and staggering feats of memory.” – George Orwell, 1984

          add to that the daily dose of tv..i.e.hollywood and sports spectaculars..

          possee

      • Yuri says:

        It might be too late. But I’ll get right to work telling the Fed to stop printing worthless money ….. Oh, wait! That won’t work.
        I mean I’ll order the Fed to keep digitizing money to keep the stock market bubble inflated.

        What?! That won’t work either?

        Hmmm,

        Via Drudge:

        Fed could set off year-end fireworks
        http://ca.news.yahoo.com/fed-could-set-off-end-190517645.html

        “U.S. central bankers meet December 17-18,”

        “the beginning of the end of [the Federal Reserve's] massive bond-buying program is coming sooner than later.”

        “could make this week an explosive one for financial markets.”

        Markets Get Set to Lose a Crutch
        http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304477704579255540276033618

        In a related story –

        Ohio study: heavy online use can mean anxiousness

        http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/12/14/3817983/ohio-study-heavy-online-use-can.html

        On that note, I’m going to buy more silver tomorrow and then take a sabbatical from the internet and reading or listening to the news. Merry Christmas, all.

        • NONYMOUS5 says:

          Yuri, we had this debate months ago when Fed was “going to stop”. It can’t. and the men and women do not want to. Would you stop printing money if you had a printing press? There was a chart, here I think, showing that ALL of the market runup is FRB pump. Its not a crutch, its a pump. they can’t turn it off. And why would one of them personally make this decision? That’s all just posturing: they will print until it breaks. (Then start a new “bank” and do it all over on your grandshillin).

      • possee says:

        NC joe..

        Only an ‘idiot” would “fool”ishly believe that he or she can prevent a collapse..it is quite obvious to most observers..

        You do, however, provide a synopsis of the obstacles we here face on a daily basis..surrounded by fools..or in your case..sheer idiocy..

        regards
        possee

      • old guy says:

        Prevent a collapse? Are you some kind of denialist? There hasn’t been and isn’t ever going to be a viable political or ballot box solution. So where does that leave us? The UN, NWO and Agenda 21 folks decided that the so called USA middle class had more then their fair share. So things like NAFTA ,pollution laws ect. Where implemented to entice and coerce the US producing manufacturing to relocate to third world places. The US Middle class wealth was redistributed to other places. And It was done on purpose. No way are the very same lying politicians who caused the economy to tank going to even attempt to reverse the plan. So where does that leave us? It leaves us with a deep in debt government and too many taking parasites and to few producing makers. Its doomed bound to fail. The question is not if but when?

    67. Just to be clear, the statement “God helps those who help themselves” is no where in the Bible. In fact, the Bible says God saved us when we were dead in our sins and trespasses – i.e, helpless. This is, of course, discussing the spiritual world. In the preparedness world, God gave us a brain to think, and that means, e.g., preparing every fall for winter (and it sure appears a financial winter is coming). If you are not a Christian, then you needn’t really comment – I get it… it’s every man for himself. And some of Selco’s writings *can* be taken that way (tho not necessarily so) If you are indeed a person of faith, I would love to discuss HOW we can exhibit our faith in a wise manner that helps others – and by this I do NOT mean enabling them, NOT pandering to them, etc – while not being stupid at the same time. Selco has a lot of good, practical, important points. If someone tries to break in and attack my home, I may well use lethal force, as just one example. That I assiduously prep is another example. Socialism is not only impractical, but ultimately theft. But as noted, Selco’s article *can* be read, to possibly suggest survival for survival’s sake. So, is that all we are – animals? Is that how one wishes to live the remainder of their life? Sure, for a few of you here, that may indded be the case (and if so, please insert your insults in this space: _____) On the other hand, for those of us who DO believe in preparedness, DO believe in using the brain God gave us to help ourselves, who DO believe in preparing for winter when we know it is coming, but ALSO believe in the Lord, who also wish to bring real (not socialist faux garbage” compassion, the question is, how and when do we help others? The nearest I can can come to is that if SHTF, I there will need to be some kind of quid pro quo for food, as one example. I will indeed also try to help the mentally retarded, the very young children, etc., though I’m not sure how, or to what extent. For those of you who wrestling with this, I would love to hear your comments.

      • NONYMOUS5 says:

        PO, I think not only are the wages of sin death, but also suffering in this life. As Christians, we don’t fight the other man, our fight is with satan. That The Man is conscribed to satan is another issue. Personally, I feel the US Gobblenent is beyond restoration and the only path forward is to force a USA Government who OBEYS the Constitution of the United States of America.

        As a Christian, I feel its my duty to protect my family and to help those in need; but also that if someone rejects my helps, I simply wipe the dust from my feet. Spend time with people who will be saved, let God sort out the rest.

        Rambling somewhat, but, in short, I think Paul called Christians to share communally – something existing but not clearly obvious in today’s churches. As a small business owner, I like to hire honest, hard-working, and honorable people. As a small-time prepper, I think these are the people I’d prefer to bug out/in with as well.

    68. ArmedPatriot says:

      Preventing a collapse? So how many people here can leave their jobs and focus 100% on “preventing a collapse”. Do you think the government cares? Most of these people collect a pension because they sat on their ass and bullied around a bunch of contractors. When this comes down. I’ll be the guy you need to be scared of… I’m well funded, military trained, combat experienced, and tired of all the damn moochers while I bust my hump. Good luck to you and yours. Your going to need it.

      • NONYMOUS5 says:

        I did a contract like that early this summer. I attended one of the weekly conference calls. 8 or so government do-nothings on the call yapping about nonsense. All I could think is how these crooks were all getting health insurance and retirement but I think only one of them had actually even given one real input to the work being done. The project was run by one mega company. The PM tried to stretch it out and make as much work as possible. I was a few levels of subcontractors down the line. There were actually 4 people working (all contractors) and about 12 BS’ing. That’s America. It can’t be fixed. It can’t be fixed. Just burn it.

    69. And one more point. Yes, Selco makes very good and important points. But there is one warning. Hitler himself said “I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature.”

      Is that the end result of survival? Certainly, Selco writes valuable things; however, if this is not balanced with something else, something higher, what do we have? Why not just join forces with those that are already corrupt and evil?

      • Socrates says:

        -PO
        It matters not that we die…what matters is how we lived our lives on this earth. Was it meaningful and full of purpose? Did you make the world a better place by your virtue of your existence and continued efforts?
        Did you care about the strife of your fellow man and grieve to see the evil and corruption that is rampant?

        Don’t cast your lot with the evil ones. Resist till the very end and be defiant in all that they try to force upon you. Dying by the hand of evil or the circumstances it forces upon us is not important. Living your life daily with faith, honor, and dignity is. When I go out, I hope my one finger salute to evil will be proudly displayed.

    70. Money Supply says:

      PREPPER LEGAL ITEM. PRENUPT. GOT ONE? I HAVE MINE.

      I know a guy who is a prepper and his wife is divorcing him.

      He forgot to get the prenupt.

      Todays love can be tomorrows vampire.

      I’m just saying… it’s not all beans and rice…

      Think and plan well.

      From a man’s perspective…there’s little benefit to marrying these days.

      I have a friend who gets a new gal when he needs to change his oil…his rule.

      Happiest dude I know.

      All the married guys feel trapped.

      ps. religious nuts…spare us your point of view…we already know it.
      Not everyone is a bible thumper or lets some fuck who lived in a desert thousands of years ago who wrote some shit that made it into the bible control his life.

      Got pussy?

    71. BigB says:

      Just have to get this off my chest:

      John Kerry is a piece of scat.

      BigB

      • Sigi says:

        I understand how you feel. I wish he and John McCain would butt out of Ukraine’s business and stick with our own crises.

        • Hunter says:

          Lawd-o-mercy Sigi,
          please don’t wish anymore John McLame sponsored legislation/votes for war upon us.

          Instead, let us hope & pray that some Ukrainians beat the living shit out of his globalist-agenda supporting ass!!!

          ..or better yet, give him a Lubyanka breakfast***

          *** a blindfold, a cigarette and a bullet in back of the head. –(see NKVD/KGB for details)–

    72. Tom Laughlin, who shot to fame as the rugged half-breed action hero “Billy Jack,” died Thursday in Thousand Oaks, Calif., surrounded by his family. He was 82 years old.

      one of the good ones

    73. SomewhereinROK says:

      First time commenting but have to chime in… First off, Peterson, while you are incredibly offensive, you do bring something to the fight. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. While I disagree with 99% of his positions, I agree 100% on his position regarding bugging out. A city dweller cannot bug out to a location where they do not have extensive knowledge and a pre-positioned stock. If someone is planning on BO and carrying everything on their back or in the trunk of their prious, they won’t make it. Fact is, if they haven’t established clear and concrete milestones, they will miss the opportunity. Once the floodgates open, all bets are off. Much better off to be a year or a month early than to be a day late…
      Your BO location should offer nothing to the unsuspecting traveler. No food, no shelter, no clearing. Shelter is a very, very simple process where food and precious metal (brass and lead) are not. The bulk of this should be located subterranean and positioned well in advance as to conceal all evidence of activity. Supplies to reach the BOL are all that are required. Once on site, start digging and take what you need. If it appears the site has been compromised, take what you need and bury the remainder (again).
      Spending a few years in the remote wilderness of Alaska taught me bears are not out friends and will destroy any and everything of value. Living in Iraq and Afghanistan has taught me humans are do the same but most aren’t as smart as the bears…
      I conclude with good news and bad news: the bad news is it will only get worse. During the end times it will be mother against child… brother against sister. The good news is for those of us who believe Christ died on the cross for us will survive. We may not survive the horror about to happen, be we will survive eternally, which makes the ends justify the means.
      What a great time to celebrate the birth of our Saviour! To all of you, Merry Christmas and may God Bless You through these difficult time and those to come…
      2d to None.

    74. Satori says:

      Canadian billionaire predicts end of US Dollar as world’s reserve currency

      http://peakoil.com/business/canadian-billionaire-predicts-end-of-us-dollar-as-worlds-reserve-currency

      this will be collapse for the US
      especially for the middle and working class

      • Kevin2 says:

        Santori

        Getting on this blog daily is like playing a sport where there is a high probability of being being hit in the testicles. You love the sport but damn sure know that on occasion your going to feel the pain.

        I opened that USD video…..OUCH.

    75. Frank Thoughts says:

      Most of the civ pop have absolutely no clue about what it is like. They live in a completely distorted and mediated reality delivered to them by Hollywood and Madison Avenue. It has nothing to do with reality. Because of this fact, most will go into intense shock.

      Just take firing a weapon in a closed space (say a hallway). You will never know what that is like until you experience it and what it does to you and those around you. Take seeing a young, beautiful man or women struck down with extreme violence before your eyes. That shit never goes away.

      Or try dealing with days and weeks of lack of sleep, poor quality food, hunger and cold: no piping hot burger at the end of the day for you. Then having to fight for your very life at the end of it, or fight to protect your wife.

      Or try being surrounded by people who think you are an animal and not worthy of life. People who only see your ethnicity, race or clothing, and want you dead.

      Like Selco, I lived and fought through this stuff in the 90s. People have no clue, whatsoever. Pray and work for peace; prepare for war.

      • Thinker says:

        FrankThoughts;Now I can understand the passive indignation of the sheep,but Ill never understand the ones that know and have fought for freedom,why we don’t do everything we can to impeach and punish this Obama-nation for war crimes!
        Seal Team Six was Murdered!
        Link to follow.
        Thinker

    76. all scare tactic people

      designed to scare you into submission

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYwH2k9emaE#t=233

    77. Thinker says:

      Seal Team Six Was Murdered

    78. Thinker says:

      Sorry that didn’t work?
      The video is on Rense.com under the caption Seal Team Six was murdered.

    79. Harrison Bergeron says:

      I know people talk about getting to a low populated area – but what happens when 10 million other people have same idea?…

      I guess I’m just not a 100% on bugging out vs. bugging in…

      Comments appreciated.

      • Calgacus says:

        Talk is cheap. You see any big movement in property sales lately. Me either.

        Saw on Drudge that 70% population in urban areas.

        ‘nuf said.

        • Them Guys says:

          I think my 10 acres in Mich Must have greatly risen in Value…Since last nite we got a few inches Snow, and Now the sunshine has revealed that my Entire Yard/property is Covered in shinny Diamonds!…Everywheres I look all I see is sparkles and colors like shinny Diamonds everywheres!

          Must be a blessing from above to raise my property values!

          All I need now is a Buyer!! With a Wife that Loves Diamonds alot!

      • old guy says:

        That’s a valid assessment. Those of us who are already present in the less populated areas will not welcome hordes of refugees. Unless you own the land you are trespassing. I wont tolerate tresspassers or squatters on my domain. If you haven’t already secured you very own location in a remote location when SHTF happens you are just out of luck. The unprepared will just have to hope FEMA saves them. actually the choice is starve and die at their populated location or starve & die at a less populated location. Im optimistic in thinking less than 10% are prepared and will be lucky? enough to survive.

    80. Be informed says:

      Expect a 7 pointer from far eastern Indonesia/Papua New Guinea to Vanautu, or something from Loyalty Islands and Soloman Islands to Fiji Islands and Kermadec Islands to north island New Zealand. The recect swarm of earthquakes on the South Mid Atlantic Ridge points like never seen before at this small area on the northeast Australian plate. Only Japan and Costa Rica have had a major earthquake after this same spot has been hit. This time it is pointing like a bull’s eye at this area of the plate. Durango kidd was waiting for Vanuatu to get nailed by something large, this should be the time or nearby on the Australian plate.

      Yesterday on west of the Macquarie Islands points to the same areas mentioned for danger and the Mariana Islands and Turkey and Greece. The other areas remain dangerous such as the Nazca, Cocos, Caribbean plates. On top of China/India, Alaska, Cascadia plate, California, but this is from the previous precursor earthquakes. These cycles are overlapping, but there is a high chance of the Austrailia plate on the northeast side of having a significant earthquake, especially between Paupa New Guinea and Vanuatu.

    81. Police officer refuses order to join local mosque and report back on all activities he sees: Good.

      Police officer refuses to beat / roust Occupy Wall Street protester: Good.

      Police officer walks past your stoop in Park Slope and doesn’t arrest you for drinking beer: Good.

      Police officer walks past your blanket at Shakespeare in the Park and doesn’t arrest you for drinking wine: Good.

      Police officer refuses to meet “Stop and Frisk” quota: Good.

      Police officer refuses to arrest person “Stopped and Frisked” for the joint in his pocket: Good.

      President of the United States refuses to enforce Federal law against medical marijuana dispensaries: Good.

      Theoretical Southern police officer refuses to arrest Black person for drinking from wrong water fountain / sitting in wrong seat: Good

      Theoretical German refuses to harass / beat / kill innocent Gay / Jewish / Gypsy person during World War II: Good.

      Western sheriff refuses to enforce law he believes to be unconstitutional: Bad

      Got it.

    82. KY Mom says:

      DEFIANT: 479 Sheriffs REFUSE to Enforce New Laws on Gun Control

      New York Times
      (also posted on Drudge Report)

    83. Anonymous says:

      Sorry to say “sixpack” is going to die in a SHTF. In a situation like the one that took place, everyone is on their own. Any fool who confronts a determined armed person is a foll and has seen to many Rambo movies. I have the training to know that you can disarm only a fool and a coward and everyone else will kill you long before you can close the gap to get any kind of hit.

      So for those Rambo wannabe know this, in a firefight and dangerous situation if you want to be the dead hero that no one will remember a year later, go for it. I for one will be doing what any good school of tactics will teach, moving, evading, and plane surviving. You on the other hand can go all Rambo and save whom ever you want but you will not last in FUBAR situation.

      sixpack says:
      A STUDENT confronts the gunman, while the targeted TEACHER runs for their life…maybe kids are getting tired of this shit going on in their schools.

    84. 3 oxycodone and a snow nap. Or lie in a warm bath with a small cut. AAAAHHHHHH with gratitude in my heart for All life. I would never kill to extend this bodies existence.
      Live and Love Life, you can always walk through the door when you want.
      Once you have the Balls to face death….then you can truly live!

    85. Ryan McDonald says:

      I think it is better to be prepared all time rather than urgent preparedness. People should be aware of this. Here in this survival blog you can get more ideas about this.

     
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