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    Ruppert: We’re at the Zero Point of Systemic Collapse

    Mac Slavo
    February 5th, 2011
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (79)
    Read by 461 people

    Former police officer, journalist, documentary producer and founder of Collapsenet Michael Ruppert discusses the precipice of global events as we move ever closer to falling of the edge of the cliff:

    (Video follows excerpts and commentary)

    We’re at the zero point of systemic collapse. That’s really the point at which it becomes clear that we are experiencing living through a system’s failure of human industrial civilization.

    A forecast not unlike those we’ve made over the course of the last several years. Mr. Ruppert suggests we’re much closer now, than ever before, to a complete collapse of our economic, social, and political systems. Like others, Ruppert believes the events unfolding in the Middle East are warning signs of what’s to come:

    These are all marked by self immolation. People burning themselves, trying to burn themselves to death, in public as a form of protest. That tells you how desperately hungry and how desperately frustrated people are in the Arab world. It will not be long before we start seeing the same events happening in Europe and happening here as well. This is a very dangerous time.

    It has been reported that over a dozen individuals in the Middle East have set themselves on fire (video) over the course of the last month. One could argue that we’ve already seen at east one similar event, though not specifically self immolation, resulting from frustration. One recent event that comes to mind is the attack on the IRS building in Austin, Texas when an individual fed up with the state of the nation piloted his plane into the building in protest. We would not be one bit surprised to see self immolation and other extreme protests catalyze an already broke, hungry and frustrated populace.

    What series of events could be so severe that people will be taken to the breaking point? There are several, according to Ruppert, and once they happen they could very quickly and violently force an irreversible plunge:

    A bill promoted by Newt Gingrich, that will allow states to file bankruptcy, is moving on fast track through Congress. Within days of that being passed you will see states around the country start to go bankrupt…

    …You will see tens and perhaps hundreds of thousands of state employees laid off and fired, you will see pension funds dissappeared overnight, you will see wages lowered, you will see much more civil unrest in this country.

    I would argue that it’s already begun, especially with the crime wave that’s now coming, not just against police officers. But, I’m also tracking violent crime and the predators who understand that there’s a much lessened law enforcement presence out there. They’re feeding on this energy of collapse, are coming out aggressively looking for victims. It’s very important that you learn how not to be one.

    So this is systemic.

    The debt crisis affecting states is just one of the many threats facing our country and the rest of the world. The entire system, from the individual consumer to the world’s ‘only remaining’ super power, is leveraged to the limit and it can come crashing down at anytime and for a variety of reasons we’ve discussed in past commentary – sovereign debt default, hyperinflation, food affordability- to name a few. Ruppert provides some others:

    We also have climate collapse, mass extinction, the Gulf of Mexico – it’s absolutely clear that the Gulf of Mexico is dead – and the people who have been exposed to that are very sick and dying. That’s not coming back.

    There is nothing we can do to prevent it [collapse]. No matter what we do…The last three words that I spoke at the biggest lecture I ever had at the University of Washington Seattle in 2005 – the last three words were Prepare, Prepare, Prepare.

    Can a collapse of the world as we have come to know it be prevented at this point? We’re not qualified to make that prediction, but we’re certainly not going to wait around to find out. There seem to be too many things, both natural and man-made, working against us.

    We can hope for change. We can even take steps to enact change. But just in case, we’re going to be prepared in the event that we are in the midst of collapse right here and now.

    I am absolutely convinced now – and Collapsenet will be moving in this direction – I am convinced that our primary job now is to help you prepare.

    What I don’t see is anybody preparing on how to deal with civil unrest, massive huge increases in violent crime, for massive dislocations, for food shortages…

    A lot can go wrong in the today’s fragile geo-political climate.

    Start with the right attitude and mentality – the survivor attitude; someone who is not prey, as Mr. Ruppert refers to it – and then you can confidently move into physical preparations.

    Immediate preparations to take care of yourself. Three months worth of food. Fresh water. First aid supplies. If you’re going to buy weapons for self defense, do it now….training on that…

    Visit Collapsenet for more of Michael Ruppert’s preparedness advice, and also check out the free resources available at the Top 50 Preparedness and Survival Blogs. Also check out our Michael Ruppert section for more videos and commentary.

    Watch Michael Ruppert Discuss the Zero Point of Systemic Collapse:

    Hat tip GMAFB

    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post
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    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 461 people
    Date: February 5th, 2011
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

     

    79 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. stan says:

      How many times has Ruppert been wrong?   How many times has he been wrong?

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

    2. Stan says:

      Ask yourself this:   Does Ruppert  charge for his content?  Does he proffit from  ” Collapse.net?”  Does he? 

      If he does, do NOT read his stuff.  He is just like Obama or Bernake.   Do NOT pay to read his blog. 

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    3. Jerry says:

      Comments…..
      As the old saying goes, “predicting the future is easy… predicting the timing is next to impossible”..
      It’s just like 30+ years ago when I was in the military, we had “alerts” all the time… and every time we’d question whether or not “… this was the big one”.  I was stationed in Europe during the cold war.
      Of course, as it turned out, none of the alerts turned out to be the real thing… nonetheless, it was a part of our training – as old as it got, and it’s better to be prepared and not need to go, than to have to go and not be prepared.  
      Again, another saying goes:  “.. failure to prepare is preparing to fail.”
      Frankly, I would love nothing more than for Mike to be wrong on his alert format – but will I take him seriously – YOU BET!  Why?  You just never know… and the one time I decide to sit back and NOT respond to an “alert”, will turn out to be the one that I should have!  Never fails… Yea, drilling, training, and repetition gets old real fast, but there just isn’t an easier way to do it…
      I would love nothing more than to see you guys who refuse to pay for information, go out there and “work” for free yourself… Your employer would love you for it, and you’ll benefit everyone except yourself and your family… get real… you don’t work for free, and anyone with any common sense wouldn’t expect Mike to…
      Sounds like to me you haven’t lived very long – if at all in the real world…

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    4. Durango Kidd says:

      Stan: Plus one.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    5. TnAndy says:

      OK Stan…..how many times HAS he been wrong ?

      Or was the post simply to imply that he has been wrong many times, without providing evidence ?

      When a guy jumps in with 2 negative posts, I have to wonder why.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    6. The sky is falling… The sky is falling…  Ummmm…  So much to say…  Let’s just pick one thing…  Legislation moving to allow states to declare bankruptcy…  This is a bad thing?  Ummmm…  Perhaps Ruppert thinks we Americans should belly up and bail out the stupid states with our federal tax money…  Now I’m not a rocket scientist, but I think we’ve been printing enough money lately…  Rupert, if you think bailing out the states is a good thing get your checkbook out…  As far as myself and my household, we’ve spent enough thank you… 

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    7. Gods Creation says:

      Stan,

      Why shouldn’t someone be able to profit from the time and effort put into a blog?  Or at least pay some of the expenses of running it?

      I will not pay to read someones blog.  Even this one.  But that shouldn’t stop Mac from putting a few ads on the site to generate soft revenue from me when I see an ad I want to check out.

      I have several websites that I run and there is never enough time in the day to do it all.  Ruppert should be supported by those who follow him and are willing to pay for the privilege.

      You get your vote too.  If you don’t want to pay, you don’t have to.  Other may not want to either, but if they do who am I to tell them not to?  It is their money, or debt currency, to spend as they wish.

      Besides, I doubt Ruppert is wrong about anything but his timing.  What you believe will happen tomorrow will probably not happen for three to five years.  Over that time, you will barely notice it has happened.  That is how the system survives. 

      Bad times are coming.  The world is too corrupt and there is no protection for Men and their property.  It is not up to the corporation when this all ends.  It is up to the unprotected Man and it will happen when he starts to be his own protector.

      It will happen one Man at a time until enough of the sheep have had enough and no longer feel they can rely on the system for protection. 

      When that happens, the system will be killed by those same Men for their own protection.

      When will that happen?  I don’t know.  Ruppert don’t know.  Not even Mac knows.

      What they all have in common is the knowledge that bad things WILL happen, and the good sense to get prepared while telling others to do the same thing.

      If they have helped one Man decide to prepare, thus save his life and that of his family, does that not deserve a little payment from those willing to provide it?

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    8. shoemaker says:

      Poll question:  if you had a choice, would you choose to
      1)  Pay off as much debt as possible for cash flow flexibility
      or
      2)  Put a down payment on a 7 acre home so you could get out of the suburbs?

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    9. Sketch says:

      @TnAndy & GC – it goes to his motive of class. he may be exactly 100% ALL the time, but the only people it TRULY would benefit are people with the extra bread to pay him. The details MAY come out slowly to the rest of us. If you don’t pay him, then you obviously aren’t worth the time to inform you of what will happen – and as he said in the video – HE is the ONLY ONE who can tell you which tree branch is about to fall on you – Isn’t that how televangelists got their start?  I have no problem with him charging for his OPINION – as in a financial blog or something to that affect, but from HIS words, he is effectively selling SALVATION – something that from a MORAL standpoint, should be available to us ALL, NOT just based on our individual cash flow. He chooses to give this “information” to select few before it dribbles and leaks to the rest of us. How does this make him ANY different than a snake oil salesman? People here LOVE to harp on morality and what one SHOULD do in a given situation – why not now?

      @Shoemaker – I’d choose Option #1 first, as it will lead directly to option #2 with time and keep your “credit-worthiness” in tact.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    10. Gladys Crabtree says:

      The answer to the question about Ruppert’s motives is that none of this content is worth paying for.  None of these people have anything to say that will make you any more prepared for eventual disaster than your head in the sand neighbor is.  You read that right.  You are on your own.  Arguing on these websites is at best a useless waste of time, and at worst will get you on a “no-fly” list as a domestic terrorist.

      Put your faith in the great creations of human history:

      1;  the Katadyn water filter
      2;  the Remington 870 shotgun with 10 round magazine extension
      3;  your family
      4;  the Centurion 12 ga “buck and ball” load (65 cal round ball backed by 6 #1 buck pellets, 1300 fps, 2 3/4″) available at cheaperthandirt.com.  Buy more than 100 Pounds of these, I did!
      5;  your local organic farmer.  No one better to know…….

      Arguing about the collapse of the dollar is a good way to get a bunch of down-syndrome retards all wound up.  Do something constructive for a change.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    11. GoneWithTheWind says:

      Randy:  There is a third choice.  The state could cut their costs so that they were able to meet their budgets.   Then they could actually negotiate with unions instead of always giving in.  I think if a few governors would stand up to the unions and if their legislators would backup the governor then we could break this death grip the unions have on state revenues.  Let them strike, hell, fire them.  Hire temps or scabs or whatever.  But don’t keep signing contracts that we cannot afford.

       

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    12. NWFisher says:

      Quoted from Ruppert’s rant above,
      “A bill …will allow states to file bankruptcy, is moving on fast track through Congress. Within days of that being passed you will see states around the country start to go bankrupt…”

      Well WHY NOT! They ARE freakin’ bankrupt! California, Illinois and a long list of other states, cities, counties and towns.
      None of us could keep doing business if we were so deeply overextended. GET IT ON–they’re already bankrupt, just make it official. Stop the games. Flush the system of as much waste as possible. They need to get back to the basics of living within a very frugal budget like the rest of us.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    13. Anonymous says:

      10 rounds for a 870?  I have never heard of that.  I go with 3 in OO.  Three months food is prep, prep, prep?  Maybe for some…..  Very few here would only have three months.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    14. Shoemaker: #2, please. If I were anywhere near a city, I would be desperately looking for a way to get out.

      Final preps for me. Got everything I need except for two things: A way to heat the house without electricity and a need for good communications gear. I guess I better dust off all my old 2meter Amateur gear. Its not like they’ll be money to send the FCC around to arrest us for crap like that.

      Myself, I wonder about Mr. Ruppert. I do not deny that someone who creates a blog and puts much into it deserves some cash out of it, however, one has to wonder if the D&G (doom and gloom) is to boost membership or if he really believes it. Since he very much sells his site you have to take all he says with a grain of salt.

      I know that it never happens. No one ever sacrifices honor to boost members/subscriptions. No, not once has that ever happened, right? Regardless, I think Ruppert is correct. But, his push for subscriptions gives him a “conflict of interest” on this subject that makes me very suspicious.

      I very much prefer authors like Mac, that, while doing mostly commentary, seem much less conflicted.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    15. “They need to get back to the basics of living with a frugal system like the rest of us”.
      When most people or companies declare bankrupcy, they go back to their old spending habits and get right back into dept. What makes anyone think that the people who run the state governments are immune to this mentality?  They need to cut their spending and start paying back what they OWE.  That is the right thing to do and the only way they will remember to not put their state in that position again. The pain is the cure. 

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    16. Durango Kidd says:

      Net Ranger: I agree. I checked out his site, and while I believe that we should all be concerned about events and conditions,  and debate them vigorously while we search for solutions, it did seem to me that his site was more oriented toward making a buck than making a difference. I mean really, why pay this guy a $100 per year for “membership”? Didn’t see any value added to warrant that.

      Now there’s nothing wrong with making a buck in America, but to try to make that dollar based upon people’s fears, and exacerbating the those fears while you do it, seems to me to be a bit unseemly. All the info you need to prepare is free at your public library or can be garnered here by talking to the “regulars”.

      Click a Google Ad here once a day and consider yourself a “member”.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    17. Durango Kidd says:

      C: The only way to treat the states that file bankruptcy is not to make them pay the money back or allow them to fund their own generous pensions with taxpayer money; the way to treat these people is to put them in jail for malfeasence in office.

      Government would start to work much better with people on top in jail for their crimes.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    18. Jeff says:

      Shoemaker…#2 with a twist…..I don’t know about your area, but mine (N.Ca) since people can’t sell they are offering to rent/lease. If something like that came along (rural) I’d jump at it. Even a small town on a 1/2 acre . The other thing is, good luck getting a loan. So find one that will carry the loan, if you go that route. One thing good is most rural properties are much less expensive than the city….Good Luck.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    19. Dr. E says:

      hey mac
      you are on top of so many things
      we keep beating the same dog here,at neithercorp,survivalblog,tree o f  liberty etc
      but it comes down to the same consensus–we’re screwed–besided getting prepped–which is a given here–what is the next step?–because we need one
      there will come a time when like minded folk will not have cell access, internet access or even land line
      from my perspective ham and sw are the way to go
      shouldn’t we be talking about that and getting that organized so we can become cohesive as a group?
      please respond–time is short–e

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    20. Rick says:

      Comments…..Learning homesteading skills and ground to practice them on is far more important than a $100 membership to someone else’s opinion. There is plenty of free info on the net. Buy 500 rds. of 9mm. Think for yourself!

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    21. scar says:

      Ahh, my ol’ pal Mikey. I subscribed to his newsletter way back when, before his publicity stunt south of the border and before his sexual harassment case (which he lost).

      Yep, that sure was some “team” of beauties he had working for him in Oregon. What a pack of elitist, arrogant jerks. I got screwed out of my money with his last newsletter and wrote ‘ol Mikey off.

      But like snot on the end of your finger, he just will not go away. Too much money to be made off the marks, I guess. Hey! It sure beats working for a living.

      What a con-artist. Too bad for him he is losing his touch.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    22. Let’s see here…
      <em>We’re at the Zero Point of Systemic Collapse
      Economic Precipice Near
      We’re Literally On the Brink of Catastrophic Collapse
      Your Time To Prepare for the Economic Storm That’s Coming Is Almost Out</em>

      The proverbial shit hitting the fan is always just around the corner, but it’s been that way for months, if not years. I don’t doubt that it’s going to be catastrophic, but these sensationalist headlines are getting old.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    23. Comments…..

      To view CollapseNet’s premium features subscribe today!
      Oh, well, I bought one of his dang books…..does that count??

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    24. Comments…..

      NetRanger
      February 5th, 2011 at 6:31 pm

      Try military tent stove…coal or wood…$125 + $50 shipping…received in less than a week.

      We have electricity, propane gas logs, and now the backup…goes in the two car garage and yes, folks, I can live there if all hell breaks loose and cook on it.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    25. Goldenfoxx says:

      Comments…..JJ


      Comments…..
      To view CollapseNet’s premium features subscribe today!
      Oh, well, I bought one of his dang books…..does that count??
      ———————————–
       
      Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?  All over the net and at any of the 50 most top rated survival sites.  Which TSHTF is in the top 10.  Celente is another one that you can view on utube–why subscribe to his forecaster when it eventually makes its way to the web?  I don’t pay for information that is available for free.  But that’s just me – I’m a miser.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    26. Joerocker says:

      Our so called fed gov and our so called state gov has spent so much we could NEVER pay it back.
      These traitors will never stop spending! it’s not their plan…
      It’s not my debt. we told them NO, they gave us the middle finger.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    27. Cold Dead Hands says:

      Ruppert, while probably having his heart in the right place, comes to some correct conclusions, but based on  oh so wrong “facts”.

      He thought obama was one of the good guys, how can you trust any “prognosticator” that didn’t see through that POS the first time he heard him speak.

      He is a global warming alarmist STILL, a fervent peak oiler (when it is becoming more obvious oil creation  is a never ending abiotic process deep within the bowels of the earth).

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    28. Suzy says:

      Small generators for short term electricity used in emergencies: Someone in the Australian Cyclone Yasi area just suffocated to death on carbon monoxide fumes, from using one indoors. It was the only Cyclone Yasi related fatality. Non-preppers or anyone inexperienced will just run down to the hardware store and buy one, having never used one before. The poor bastard was probably just trying to cook some food or have some light after the electricity went out (and probably paid $1000 for the generator too) and he’s died. I don’t blame him for how he worked his generator. All sorts of things seem unimportant during a cyclone, when you’re only trying to survive.

      Might not be terribly relevant to the above article, but it goes back to the importance of prepping, as it pertains to knowing the equipment you have, and learning all you can beforehand.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    29. MARIE says:

      Comments….HEAD BURIED IN SAND, ASS GOING TO GET SUN BURNED!  WAKE UP!

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    30. Bangkokslim says:

      Really folks…..All you have to do is a bit of prepping and relax.  At  least you’ll be prepared unlike the masses….

      If you lived in fear everday….life would trully suck.   So prep up, get your gear, food, guns, ammo and then relax…..

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    31. Ruppert has his moments, but like so many “peak oil” zealots, it’s been “peak money” all along, and they missed it. And generally the peak oilers don’t understand the peak money issue because they don’t understand how to generate it, meaning; they’re chronically poor, e.g. Mike Ruppert. Maybe Tom Brown will set him straight.

      M.R. likes to think he’s leading the way so follow him, but the reality is, even though he’s intellectually sharp, his dark side; he’s an emotional basket case who’s probably abusing the bottle.

      Aside from him, there’s a massive issue related to “food”  that no one ever talks about. More on than when it’s appropriate.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    32. allen says:

      Comments…..simple,  buy  food like  wheat flour, beans, rice, corn a mill,  one  40 cal  pistol  sig sauer,  ammo,   britta or zero water filters,  collect rain from gutters,   store up  gas out side, i have 10-55gal   barrels full.  500.00  generator.   small motorcycle,   soups,  heirloom seeds,  10-10-10- fertilizer,   barrels,   sugar,   salt,   canola oil,   butter,  powdered milk,  u get the idea,   SPEND YOUR TIME THINKING AND  DOING.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    33. emptyhandkiller says:

      I appreciate Mr. Rupperts’ comments, but I disagree somewhat.  I don’t think you will see self-immolation here, but I fully expect to see people lighting OTHER people on fire if it collapses here.  I expect violent, evil, disgusting behavior, because you can see it already today in this country.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    34. sittinguy says:

      People here are NOT hungry, I know an Unemployed idiot with 4 kids from 2 different girls.  GOT $9000 TAX RETURN!!!

      EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT,,,,,,,,,,WTF

      I was behind an overweight black woman in the bank the other day, she was cashing her tax check,,, GET THIS,,, IT WAS $140000,,,,,,,,,,she wanted it in cash. 

      WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    35. GA Girl says:

      Anyone hear the talk show by Celente on the web about the currency revaluation/re-boot of the world economy?  I didn’t understand all of it.  Would like discussion on the topic.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    36. TEKROANIN says:

      I STRONGLY SUGGEST YOU FOLKS READ – “ONE SECOND AFTER!” AND “PATRIOTS!” BOTH ARE GOOD BOOKS FOR THE “DOUBTERS AND HATERS ” OUT THERE…

      And for all you “coco puff” haters out there – realize this… your Guberment depends on the coco puffers to produce many babies for the Guberment “WAR MACHINE!” America is the NWO ILLUMINATI WAR MACHINE ENFORCERS – FOLKS! 

      WHEN THE SHTF YOU WILL BE FIGHTING YOUR OWN COCO PUFFERS  NEIGHBORS KIDS IN THE STREETS! 

      JUST LIKE WHAT HAPPENED DURING KATRINA!

      CHECK OUT – OPERATION GARDEN PLOT AND REX 84 … THEY ARE COMING TO YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD SOON!

      ARM UP STOCK UP PREPARE!  

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    37. AZ Ready says:

      I agree Bangkokslim, those of us that are prepared need not live in fear. We have taken the time learn, understand and prep for the future, so we chill out. When it happens, it happens and we will know what to do, they will not. No point in worrying about once your prepped.

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    38. radiowave says:

      “…it’s absolutely clear that the Gulf of Mexico is dead – and the people who have been exposed to that are very sick and dying”. I live on the Gulf, and I am not very sick, or even very dying.  I don’t know of anyone who has been exposed to anything here that is very sick or very dying.  I’m a prepper, you’re a prepper, wouldn’t you like to be a prepper too?  We are indeed heading toward financial collapse and social unrest.  I believe there is no way to avoid that.  I prep, but, geez…… Be wise about it.  You cannot (unless you are actually Rawles) prep for everything, so instead try and think about the most likely scenario you will face, and prep for your personal response.  With all of this “climate collapse” and “mass extinction” going on, I presume that Polar Bear preps should include a life jacket; however their stock of canned beets may go untouched.  Ruppert tells the truth, but unfortunately the truth must be extracted from his catch-all list of catastrophes. 

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    39. Lady Hawk says:

      @ sittinguy

      There are always the exceptions:  the cheaters, the system scammers,  the deadbeaters, the pond scum -  and like all a$$holes in societies,  they all stink and smell. 

      So why do you feel the need to single out folks by race and color???  What’s your point???  To divide and stereotype citizens of this country?  The melting pot of the world???

      The posting on the miss use of the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) would of been  just as informative without the race card being used. 

      I would of posted in response that I first found out about this scam from an investigation in Colorado last  year.  One of those day labor agencies, that specializes using illegals: (which is not a color or race as they come in all flavors, races, colors and even sizes.) … on construction and government projects, becomes a tax service during tax season. 

      This company, uses identity theft SS#s and the ID#s IRS allows to be used for tax purposes  (instead of the SS#s citizens use) to file for EITC. 

      Unlike citizens who must provide SS#s for the dependents they are declaring for tax purposes, IRS allows illegals to just declare the number of dependents and no SS #’s.  So the average EITC tax refund for illegals in this program (at a $1000 a dependent) is  – $7,000 to $10,000.  The mother and father can each file and double dip for these non and existing dependents. 

      This is all government sanctioned.  The prosecutor who went after this labor agency, because of the SS#s thefts, was required  to stop the investigation and prosecution by a federal judge when the ACLU got involved on behalf of the labor agency.  The prosecutor had to return all the files back to the labor agency and was barred from notifying “citizens” their SS#s  had been stolen and were being used in E-verify and this sanctioned tax refund give a way. 

      It looks like the “black lady” in your comment took a lesson from the illegals, but she would of had to declare 140 children – that’s pure greed and surely will bring her IRS grief.  It was my understanding “the fleecing”  limited the number to 10 dependents.

      The WTF is just how much money is being fleeced from the treasury country wide!!!! Where is the main street media and the citizen tax payer outrage????

      Just thinking, ten thousand dollars would buy a lot of preps – the illegals have been doing it for years – why shouldn’t tax paying citizens start taking advantage of this government sanctioned loop hole?????  Is there such a specialized labor/tax service agency near you???  (Bet the rules would change if that happened)

      Gee, I think my posting is pretty powerful on how just another example of how illegals are robbing the American treasury, without using the race card.

      The Denver Post ran the articles and Ken Buck the prosecutor ran for the Senate and lost.  

      If you’re not angry, you’re are not paying attention.  (Terry Anderson, Patriot – now deceased)

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    40. Bangkokslim, AZ Ready…..I agree…..get prepared with all the stuff we have all seen here and other blogs that we need to get by for 3-6 months…..longer if you are so inclined.  Then relax and enjoy life.

      Whenever the SHTF either fast or a slow slog down the drain you will have some comfort knowing you did what you needed to do which will be more than 90% of the rest.

      I won’t pay for someone to continually tell me how close we are to the end. I prefer to watch and be aware of what’s happening in the world and come to my own conclusions.

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    41. Gaze of Glory says:

      The S*HT won’t hit the fan anytime soon, at least for the U.S. anyways. The sheeple in the U.S. are beyond indoctrinated by the lame stream media, hollywood and reality shows. All they care about is watching the Stupid Bowl, Real Housewives of (whatever city it is now), iPhones and Keeping Up With the Kardashians.

      I live on Wrong Island, NY about 30 miles east of NYC and its all about shopping, nice cars, fast food, Target/Walmart, obese people, illegals, etc. You think these people have any clue to prep or even know the current situation of the economy and whats going with the world? It is really sad, its almost like an artificial reality here.

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    42. Bob says:

      As far as I can gather most folks here see the ‘collapse’ as a rather singular event resulting in TEOTAWKI.

      You sure it might not just be a gradual decline like it has been thus far?  The system has a lot of momentum and abrupt changes are truly rare.

      One of the sites I visit regularly is FERFAL , the guy in Argentina. They know a thing or two about collapses down there having suffering one in 2001.  Curious that he recommends against being tucked away out in the boonies precisely because you are  suck a sitting target all by your lonesome. Also a factor is that the supply lines wither away and being near major distribution points can be beneficial. Jobs too are likely to be more plentiful in a metropolitan area. As long as they are people, they’ll be commercial exchange simply because no one produces all of what they need.

      I guess it comes down to how one see the collapse occurring.
      Americans have their mindset geared back to nuclear war and a suddenly mass destruction (hence the concept of ‘bug-out bags’). Even now they see a ‘collapse’ as a sudden, dramatic event with the zombies moving in afterwards.

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    43. Bangkokslim says:

      Gaze of Glory your right, people are so clueless.  If you think about it though, thats exactly how the government want people to be.  Consumers is what makes the system work, without these blind spending zombies we would already be in a state of collapse.

      If everyone prepped and spent conservatively we would be in a world of hurt.  For now we need these frivolous spenders to keep ship afloat for as long as possible.

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    44. Lady Hawk says:

      ferfal and manos keep it real for me. 

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    45. rachel says:

      the USA still has time before the total collapse. The 3rd world will get it first. Other countries will fall then europe before the USA  does. The USA falls last.

      I’m predicting 2014 as the begining of the end in the USA. by 2016 total collapse.

      I Hope I’m wrong!

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    46. Comments…..

      Goldenfoxx..I agree about free info–his book was an eye-opener though about the lies we’ve been told…for decades..welcome to peak oil…..years ago!!!!

      We’re beating our heads against the brick wall relating to the ‘idiots’ ….prep, you fools……or starve!

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    47. Comments…..

      BOB…that fire set in downtown wherever and the surrounding apts.  and blds. won’t affect me in the boonies!!!

      Just saying.

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    48. Carpenterbee73 says:

      Ok I looked it up but couldn’t find it   >:(   Could someone pls tell me what a cocoapuffer is?????!!!!

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    49. Anonymous says:

      You are F$cked in the head Bob.

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    50. Lady Hawk says:

      What Carpenterbee73 said -

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    51. Durango Kidd says:

      ColdDeadhands: You are right about the process of oil creation being an never ending process, unfortunately we are using hydrocarbons at a much faster pace than the earth regenerates it.

      The reason the major energy companies are not moving into alternative energy is because they want the high profit margins to continue, and when it is time for Alts, they will either buy what they want or demand that Congress give them tax incentives to build new energy plants: on the back of the middle class who pays the taxes, or insure their risks.

      As for being a multi-millionaire its true, but I am cash poor. That is, I do not have the $30 million in cash to develop a new, virgin, 100,000 acre oil field. I mention it here because there are those (surprise, surprise) that do have that kind of cash and do READ the posts here, even if they do not comment. (MAC and I have discussed his readership and mine.)

      So if YOU can put the funding together, I will guarantee the investment with my assests, for a joint venture with my Nevada company incorporated 20 years ago specifically to hold my mining claims and mineral interests.

      Here’s your chance for the big time cdh; step up and break into your piggy bank!

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    52. shoemaker says:

      A cocoa puffer is what commentars here label the people on welfare who spend their food stamps on the goodies like cocoa puffs.  When the SHTF, they will be the most unprepared…

      I believe it is a term coined by Golden Foxx?

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    53. digitalautumn says:



      sittinguy “People here are NOT hungry, I know an Unemployed idiot with 4 kids from 2 different girls.  GOT $9000 TAX RETURN!!!
      EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT,,,,,,,,,,WTF
      I was behind an overweight black woman in the bank the other day, she was cashing her tax check,,, GET THIS,,, IT WAS $140000,,,,,,,,,,she wanted it in cash.
      WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
      Umm ok so your mad cause an overweight black woman had a large tax check??  Do you know how she got it? what she filed? what her exemptions were? Or did you know her personally?  Or are you just upset at the amount of the check?..   You know rich middle aged white guys get HUGE tax breaks…wtf!!

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    54. Bob says:

      JJ

      Thinking that fire can’t touch you in the boonies might be false comfort. Once a gang targets you …  fire would very likely be a means to dispense with you … once they know you’re armed and in a defenseable position. And yes, they might even do it out of spite being that you weren’t an ‘easy’ victim.

      Plus, when gas goes to  $50..100 dollars a gallon and it becomes wildly expensive to go to a metropolitan area for supplies, or travel to sell farm products ..then what? You’re stuck with limited options out in the boonies.

      Sure, if collapse is total,sudden and complete then being away from people makes sense. Just realize that there’s a clock ticking. That ‘clock’ is counting down to the exhaustion of your modern life supplies. Look around your house and ponder how EVERYTHING got there because of a sophisticated supply chain.

      Are you … is anyone,  really prepared to go back  to an existence that makes even the Amish seem modern?

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    55. REB says:

      JJ…tent stoves are a good stove…used to sell them back in the 90s brand new and complete,pipes,cap,damper for around 40$…they make a good packin stove or a backup…hard to beat a good ole barrel stove though…unless you have to carry it on your back for miles!

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    56. clark says:

      Bob said, “I guess it comes down to how one see the collapse occurring.”

      You mentioned Argentina, if I’m not mistaken, their crash and currency devaluation was rather swift and sudden, thus catching many off guard.

      That’s likely the case in many other examples throughout the world too.

      Many people liken it to falling off a cliff, the way down is quite uneventful.

      Bob says, “abrupt changes are truly rare.”

      Got data to back up that claim? From what I’ve read that’s not exactly an accurate statement.

      As far as the bug-out-bags go, they were developed from other types of calamities, imho, such as evacuations from things like chemical spills, or especially this, HYST:

      http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/klessons/index.html

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    57. Bob says:

      clark

      Go read FERFAL.
      He’s got a great site and is open and straightforward.
      Did the sky suddenly fall in for Argentina and anarchy reign back in 2001?  Well, go read an account of someone who was (and still is) there. Yes their economy went to hell in a handbasket, but did modern life halt? NO.
      Did cities empty out? NO.
      Did organized, federal  government end? NO.

      Read what he (someone who has actually lived thru a collapse) advises insofar as what is prudent and what is bunk.
      Does he advocate a farm in the boonies? NO.
      Go read his reasons why not. They make sense.

      Should one be ready for calamities, yes by all means. But that’s not what this site is about.

      For whatever reasons (hollywood probably) Americans have a flair for the dramatic. Chances are it won’t go down in a sudden, Titanic means. No guarantees though, being adaptable is certainly recommended, 

      Yes, I said abrupt changes are rare.
      Did Rome collaspe suddenly. NO. Even the Mayans didn’t go in just a decade … it was a 50-100 year thing as far as we can tell.

      And I fully stand what I said about preppers having to eventually face running out of their cached supplies.
      Few, or none are prepared for a total collapse and all modern production winding down for good in just a relatively short period. 

      You can’t cherry pick your collaspe scenarios. If oil gets scare and it starts a chain reaction of  collapsing economies then there’s no telling where we’d end up. In a true  Mad Max future 
      Life would be brutal and short.

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    58. Craig says:

      So if a bill is passed to allow states to go bankrupt, what’s to stop muncipalities and counties to follow suit?

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    59. Stealth says:

      Hey Mac have you read “Reinventing Collapse”  by Drmitry Orlav?
      Very interesting, I like his way of seeing the USA slowly drifing into the abyss just like the former Soviet Union.  Just too many things are matching up to be coincedence.

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    60. clark says:

      Bob, I’m way ahead of you. I am quite familiar with Ferfal’s stuff. When the banks closed and the big confiscation of savings took place during the devaluation in Argentina, for many of those who lost a significant portion of their savings, yes, to them the sky fell.
      For those who lost it all, for those who lost their jobs and never found another and wound up eating from a trash can, for those people modern life came to a halt.

      The big difference between what Argentina faced and what we face now is, Argentina had the booming world economy to support it’s ruling class and its economy, such is not the case now.

      In many instances organized federal goberment in Argentina Did come to a halt, in many areas their presence was no longer felt. For some people they considered that a bad thing, while others found it to be a good thing and they prospered without the interference.

      The people of Argentina stopped short during their protests, too many people stayed home and focused on their short term survival at the expense of their long term survival, their freedom, their economic well being and at the expense of their children’s future by allowing their ruling class to remain in power. Perhaps this is something the Egyptians and many others have learned?

      Ferfal may have advocated against having a farm in the boonies, but many farms yet remain and prosper. The countryside hasn’t been abandoned.

      I don’t think hardly anyone is suggesting a person should move out into the boonies and become isolated completely from the world for the rest of time. Rather it appears that many people suggest networking with others and forming unified groups for protection.

      Many people say things could wind up like the Wild West as if the Wild West was some kind of shoot-em up free-for-all when in fact that was not the case. Those who banded together long ago did well and maintained their security. There’s no reason to think the same could not be done today, the only questions are, will goberment step in and try to stop people from protecting themselves, and continue to be the largest purveyor of violence?

      There are many lessons people can learn from the history of the Wild West:

      The Culture of Violence in the American West: Myth versus Reality

      http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo195.html

      It seems as if some people in Mexico have begun to utilize the tactics of the Wild West to deal with the violence – brought about by the Mexican goberments intensification of the War on Some Drugs – by banding together to drive out the criminal elements and discourage others via the practice of ostrization as was done in the Wild West and described in the link above, something the Mexican federal goberment could not do and likely does not want done.

      I’m surprised you end by focusing on a Mad Max future, because it is well known that Ferfal does not expect anything close to Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome. Perhaps maybe the original Mad Max film though, as it was not too far fetched.

      No, you can’t cherry pick your collapse scenarios, but you can be sure that human nature will remain the same.

      History is full of abrupt changes.
      One day a Colonial power controls a territory, the next day that power has vanished. Boom! Just like that. The history of the islands of the Caribbean are full of such examples, as too places such as India, Africa and Asia, surely enough to say it is not rare.

      Ferfal’s site has some good advise about surviving an economic collapse, but the difference between that site and this one is this one focuses more on recognizing and anticipating, something many people failed to do, including the experts.

      I, myself, am inspired by the Dark Ages, unlike the myths about that time period, mankind prospered, the goberment is not the source of prosperity and security:

      Rampaging Hordes – or Darlings of the Dark Ages?

      http://www.lewrockwell.com/spl/rampaging-hordes.html

      Beyond the Barbarians’ Lines

      “We know the phrase, “the barbarians at the gates.” It conjures up an image of imminent destruction. The armed barbarians outside are about to rape and pillage the sophisticated people inside. The imagery is based on the story of the fall of Rome.

      It was never that simple in the later Roman Empire in the West. From the point of view of taxation, the real barbarians were inside the gates. We face a similar problem today.”

      http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north934.html

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    61. clark says:

      I should have added, Everything Needs To Be Abolished:

      Who’s Afraid of a Free Society?

      http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods163.html

      Perhaps some people will read the links I’ve posted and understand?

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    62. Dboy says:

      GA Girl said “Anyone hear the talk show by Celente on the web about the currency revaluation/re-boot of the world economy?  I didn’t understand all of it.  Would like discussion on the topic.”

      Yes. Here’s the thing about currency (USD) revaluation…it won’t be necessary! The same thing is eventually accomplished by debasing the currency. And from the politician’s point of view, it’s an ideal solution. No need to raise taxes (not politically popular) . You simply steal the wealth of the population by using the printing press. By the time the average person figures it out, it will be far too late.  That’s why you absolutely HAVE to trade your dollars NOW for things of actual tangible value, while you still can (gold, silver, farm land, foreign real estate, foreign currencies, etc). We Americans have never really experienced a desperate government, so since we don’t have that history it’s not so easy to navigate.  We don’t know exactly what specific acts the government will commit, but we do know in a general sense, based on the actions of other failing empires. And we know how people will react, due to the valuable lessons of Katrina, 9/11, Egypt, etc.  Celente’s main theme was that the US government will start “screwing the people”. And that’s an easy bet. They WILL screw everyone they can, and steal every dollar they can, any way they can. The US Govt is not your friend.

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    63. Dboy says:

      ” Mad Max future”

      I’m more in the “slow decline” camp. And if I were to point to a movie, I’d bet on Children of Men, not Mad Max. I think that if you think Children of Men while you are prepping, then you will be well-prepared for the most-likely medium/long term outcome.

      Dboy

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    64. Dboy says:

      “So if a bill is passed to allow states to go bankrupt, what’s to stop muncipalities and counties to follow suit?”

      Cities/counties are not allowed to BK. But you have to look the reasons behind this state BK bill. What’s the REAL motivation behind it? What’s in it for Congress? Why do they want to encourage states to go BK? Very simple…follow the money! Sending a state into BK court will allow the state govts to:

      1) wipe out the pensions of all state workers, who have been paying into those systems for years.

      2) whatever money is still left in the pensions can then be stolen in order to pay other debts of the state

      3) state workers could be forced to work at whatever pay rate the courts set

      4) they could rob the state lottery fund, teacher’s retirement funds, some police/fire retirement funds (I think in some states this is protected, or is run at the city level, not sure how this would go). Basically any money that the state handles, any savings funds, could all be raided “legally”. All of that money would simply disappear.

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    65. Dave says:

      I mean no disrespect towards those here that work for the government, but I know of a man that makes 100K per year AS A PENSION from working with the government.
      Another man makes 200K per year working for the county, he too will get a huge pension.
      This is all impossible for very long and all of you share in this madness.
      You can plan on getting every dollar owed to you, but it may only pay for your electric bill.
      The Soviet Union was a good example of worthless pensions.

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    66. yourdaddy says:

      Rachel threw out (IHO) a timeline stating 2014 as the start of a SHTF scenario and 2016 as the death knel.

      “the USA still has time before the total collapse. The 3rd world will get it first. Other countries will fall then europe before the USA  does. The USA falls last.  I’m predicting 2014 as the begining of the end in the USA. by 2016 total collapse.”

      Just curious, but how did you reach that conclusion?  Or said another way, what could possibly allow the US to limp along, unaffected by the current & growing global revolution for another 3 years? 

      If you aren’t familar with the concept of ‘Cascading Cross defaults’ you might want to review that one. 

      The system is completely integrated at this point.  As countries begin to fall into Egypt, Greece, Yemen, Tunisia scenarios, the “pull” they’ll enact on the worldwide system as they go down will become like a riptide…Soverign & private sector credit issues will quickly result into supply chain disruptions, food & staple shortages followed by an implosion of that countries economy. 

      While you might believe our near-term future (< 3 years) to be more secure as we watch from afar as “other countries & Europe” begin their demise, I don’t see that scenario having any real chance of developing. 

      There are many wise folks here who have posted in this string about the ease of predicting a collapse, but the impossibility of timing.  Part of the reason for that is the game is rigged from within.  For example, I could very easily predict that the US Federal Government will be bankrupt in less then 8 weeks as we slam up against our Congressionally set National debt limit of $14.2 Trillion, but because TPTB will once again bump that limit (buying us maybe another 12 months assuming Treasury yields don’t start to climb skyward), they re-write the rule book mid-game.  

      Bottom line, none of us has claimed to be a prophet with a sure handle on timelines…Just curious how you arrived at yours of 2014?

      I believe time to be MUCH shorter then that…
      Dad

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    67. Ben Gay says:

      “Sending a state into BK court will allow the state govts to .. wipe out the pensions of all state workers, who have been paying into those systems for years”

      Boo-hoo. For each dollar they put in, they’ll be getting back $1000 for the REST OF THEIR LIVES, the difference deing paid courtesy of Mr John Q Taxpayer (who BTW does usually NOT get such a sweet retirement deal).
      ALL states need to go into bankruptcy and shake-off these leeches once and for all!

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    68. Dave said, “I mean no disrespect towards those here that work for the government, but I know of a man that makes 100K per year AS A PENSION from working with the government.”  Wow…  You must be connected to cabinet level people.  Don’t worry, you’re going to be taken care of when the SHTF…

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    69. clark says:

      Dboy said, “Cities/counties are not allowed to BK.”

      So then, what becomes of them if that is the case?

      Cascading Cross defualts is phrase I have not seen in awhile, Greenspan likely does not utter it anymore so everyone has forgotten. Out of sight and out of mind.

      I came across a comment today that reminded me of this thread:

      “For Romans it was a long drawn out process as they watched in a drunken stupor their once great empire disintegrate . Those living in Babylon went to bed one night and woke up the next morning in the Medo-Persian empire.”

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    70. clark says:

      100K per year AS A PENSION, that could be a position as low a fireman, randy.

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    71. Durango Kidd says:

      Yourdaddy: I’m with Rachel on this one. I believe that 2015 is the year. Can’t tell you why I believe that, just a gut feeling. Besides, there is no profit in collapse for the gangster bankster / NWO. And if there is no profit in it for them, whats the point, if you grasp my rationale.

      A couple of thoughts. Other nations do not yet own enough gold to give them status in the NWO; not even China, or Russia, so an interim SDR international money would have to be established first, based upon fiat currency reserves, before a metals standard nwo currency could replace the dollar. and the mechanisms are either are not yet in place for that.

      Personally, I do not think collapse will come from economic events as much as war or natural disaster on a major scale. Inflation by a thousand cuts until then.

      Load up on sugar and coffee.

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    72. midwestgal says:

      I actually watched USSR collapsed in 90th. Now I live here and watch it again. Scary. But then I was a teenager and lived with parents and now I have 2 kids of my own to take care of. So, I am preparing. Basic food, skills, foraging, etc. Money value can change overnight, I’ve seen it before. First sign-when they tell you on TV that everything is fine, nothing to worry about and money reform is not expected anytime soon. Next morning boom!!! new money, exchange rate is not in your favor. So cash and PM are very limited options. Sometimes we had money and empty shelves in stores and could exchange gold jewelry at the farmers markets for enough food to last couple of days. Being debt-free and barter items are better. And garden\farm too. Now I have a garden, fruit trees, chickens, fish pond, eadible plants on my property and 2 full freezers of food. That unsecure hungry feeling never goes away. Just have enough food for several months and keep rotating it. It won’t hurt.

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    73. midwestgal says:

      …oops, didn’t finish.
      Hand tools, garden hand tools, like shovels and scythe(hay is similar to gold when you have livestock/chicken/garden/stove, you can use it everywhere.
      Hand kitchen tools, pots. Skills to make everything – soap, vinegar,  wine, meals from basic ingridients, fencing with weeds, sewing, knitting, fibers from plants and animals, beekeeping, canning, sun-drying, herbal healing. It is very simple, free online and doesn’t take any room in your bug-out bag. I am in a way greatful that I grew-up in a falling-apart country-I know how to do it all. Even if you live your house empty-handed at the time of disaster-your skills will go with you and help you survive. I don’t let my kids spend time by tv or pc-I take them with me to the garden and comment everything I do around the house. They won’t pay attention now and they will remember all of it when time comes, like I did.

      Sorry, it it alot of letters to read:)

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    74. Jerry says:

      Hey Midwestgal… I’m curious… how is your beekeeping holding up… have you lost more than what would be considered a normal amount to the average bee keepers?  
      There are places around the world that are reporting as much as a third or half of their bees have died off and in a couple of cases, the keepers have lost their entire hive.
       
      By the way, I could not agree with you more about the kids and training them whether they’re listening or not… things do soak in…
       
      The only exception I have concerning video games are the online / offline war games my sons get involved in… other than NOT being physically involved in the “war gaming”, the tactics, weapons training / and familiarization are excellent.
       
      I wish that kind of training aid (computer war games) were available when I was in the military 30+ years ago.
       
      Yea, I know, the blood shed is very graphic, and the argument is that the gaming “dehumanizes” the player because they see up close and personal, the immediate result of what happens to the opponent  when they squeeze the trigger… it ain’t pretty.
       
      But neither is the real situation.  I could give you details about how many soldiers were lost in WWI who were found dead and their weapon was never fired – not because it jammed or misfired, but because it was surmised that the soldier simply never pulled the trigger – even when they had the shot.
       
      WWII was a better because the training was better… they went from using black circles as targets to shoot at during training, to body silhouettes, and in a lot of training camps, they were even pop-up silhouettes.
       
      As a retired Colonel friend once told me, he has never seen a better training aid than what can be provided by video games such as Modern Warfare / Call of Duty.
       
      In all reality, I’m sure these games won’t change the “after effects” of what a person will experience within himself / herself after they literally have to shoot someone, but I’m convinced of this, the training (and that’s what it truly is – training) a person receives while “playing” these war games will give them the edge of not hesitating when it comes to having to squeeze the trigger against an adversary.
       
       
       

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    75. midwestgal says:

      Jerry, it is my first year doing beekeeping, so I don’t have long time statistic to compare. I just wanted to substitute GM sugar with something more healthy and have other subproducts-wax, pollen, propolis for cosmetical and medicinal purposes-so I had to start with bees.

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    76. clark says:

      Thanks for sharing, midwestgal.

      Especially the part about the overnight currency reform.

      And this, “Sometimes we had money and empty shelves in stores and could exchange gold jewelry at the farmers markets for enough food to last couple of days.”

      The market process in action, the farmers could then turn around and trade the gold for what they needed.

      A lot is said in this statement, “hay is similar to gold when you have livestock/chicken/garden/stove, you can use it everywhere.”

      Hay is being compared to the value of gold, and for a reason.
      Gold and hay were used everywhere.
      It appears that the value of gold did not drop below that of hay, rather the value of hay rose up to that of gold.

      Again, Thanks for sharing, midwestgal, I hope you write more.

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    77. REB says:

      midwestgal……”salute”….sounds to me like you and yours are gonna be okay,its not an easy way to live but it is a safe way to live..and you get to depend on yourself instead of govt….yep,youll be fine!

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    78. midwestgal says:

      Thanks…:)

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    79. Disnfo agent says:

      His predictions are continually wrong .False information and doomsday scenerio causeing fear, that means we have a disinfo agent in the house ! Notice his post are not being placed up any more on here,i wonder why ?

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