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  • Clarocet for Kids
     

    If Technology Fails, Just How Long Are Your Long Range Plans?

    Tom Chatham
    April 7th, 2012
    American Dream Lost
    Comments (223)
    Read by 2,488 people

    The following article has been generously contributed by Tom Chatham, author of the newly released book The American Dream Lost – Economic Survival Strategy for a New Paradigm.


    The Library of Alexandria in Egypt is believed to have housed technology and historical texts dating back thousands of years. It was partially or completely burned on at least five occasions, including once by Julius Caesar circa 48 B.C. and finally by Muslim conquest in 642 A.D. Most of the knowledge it held was lost to mankind forever.

    When the Roman Empire died , the technology and living standard that had spread around Europe slowly died with them. Things such as paved roads, sanitation and aqua ducts to carry fresh water to cities were forgotten over the generations and men reverted to simpler forms of technology. This reversion led to the dark ages. After many generations the people relearned some of the forgotten technologies and advanced once again. There was no global cataclysm that brought about this reversion , it just happened because the knowledge of how the technology worked decayed along with the Romans and the average man did not understand the significance of these technologies. Eventually , future generations were ignorant of these technologies that once existed.

    Today we are blessed with truly unbelievable technology that holds many benefits for man. Almost everyone has a cell phone or computer , but do any of those people actually know how these things work? A lot of people can build a wood stove from scratch but how many can build a microwave oven or know exactly how a gas oven works? Our technology is dependent on simple machines that create parts for other more complex machines that create parts for machines that can make a computer chip. With each layer of technology , fewer and fewer people actually know how to recreate it from scratch. In our society it may not be necessary to know how to fix your own car or how a phone works because there is always someone else that knows the secrets of these devices.  But , what if these people that hold the keys to our knowledge suddenly ceased to exist or if the technology somehow broke and they could not fix it?

    It is not unthinkable that a natural or manmade event could create a situation where our technology is damaged or destroyed beyond our ability to repair or recreate it from scratch. If all of our computer chips were destroyed along with the complex machines that make them, how long would it take us to recreate that technology and under what conditions would we be working?  How many people in the world have the knowledge to do that? Any event that would destroy our technology would create chaos around the world. It’s not unreasonable to think that this chaos would prevent those with the knowledge from reconstituting our technology base in a timely manner. The longer it remains off line , the harder it will be to recreate it. This time lag could be months , years or generations. As time passes it is less likely that information will be passed on to the next generation to be reconstructed. This is how a society can devolve into a dark age. If information is not passed on it will eventually be lost to the ages.

    On a local level , if all of your conveniences were lost , how long would it take you to recreate them from scratch? Could you even do it? Even if you can make fuel for your vehicle , can you make the lubricants to keep it going or the bearings for the wheels to keep them turning? If an event took away most of our machines many would be able to rig up new machines from the parts to use for a while but what happens when these parts wear out?  Even if you had a block of copper , and knew how to melt it , do you know how to turn it into a long piece of wire? A simple piece of wire seems pretty simple until you think about it that way.

    When we are thrown back on our own resources , we are dependent on the knowledge we have to solve problems. If you needed to reestablish communications with another town with technology that you had to build , what would you do? The simplest form of communication over a distance is light or hand signals but what if you could not see the next town on a direct line of sight? The simplest device you could build in electrical terms is a telegraph set. Could you build the keys , wire and batteries from scratch? Could you build a wagon from scratch to transport goods? The loss of technology would cause a regression to what we are capable of building ourselves.

    It is a feeling in the prepper community that you are never finished preparing for disaster. The possible collapse of our technology is the reason for this. With the vast amount of knowledge available to us it is almost impossible for any one person to know it all. This is why it is important to have a good reference library that you can refer to in times of need. I have a set of reference books that tell me how to build a charcoal foundry and from there to produce every part of several  basic machining tools minus the electric motor. If I had to ,  I have the ability to build a small machine shop , powered by alternate means , to produce parts to build other machines. Even if I never build these things , the knowledge is there to pass down to the next generation so it is not forgotten. This could be the difference between living in a new dark age or just having a reduced standard of living for a few generations.  I study obsolete technology because it is the basis of all of the technology we have today.  It provides me with the basics to start the rebuilding process should it ever be necessary. Many have a plan to survive food disruptions and civil breakdown but how far out do those plans go?  At some point , things will stabilize and the rebuilding will begin. Anyone that feels the need to prepare must also feel that they have a duty to the future to insure the continuation of our society. Any skills you have that can be passed on should be and for those you don’t have you should at least have books to pass on that knowledge. Our society cannot go on without a long range plan to at least provide  the basics of human needs.  Future generations depend on the information that we hand down to them, and lately we haven’t been doing a very good job of it.

    Tom Chatham is the author of the newly released book The American Dream Lost – Economic Survival Strategy for a New Paradigm.

    Via SHTFplan

    Also by Tom Chatham:

    Prepping for the Financially Challenged: A One Month Survival Plan For Under $300

    Prepping for the Financially Challenged: Basic Survival Strategies For Apartments and Confined Spaces

    The Prepper's Blueprint
    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post
        name:     email:        details

    Author: Tom Chatham
    Views: Read by 2,488 people
    Date: April 7th, 2012
    Website: https://www.createspace.com/3782697

    Copyright Information: This content has been contributed to SHTFplan by a third-party or has been republished with permission from the author. Please contact the author directly for republishing information.

     

    223 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. Great article. My library of books – physical books,not e-books – is my most prized possession for all of the reasons stated here.

      • Arizona Fred says:

        Sorry to keep posting this, but it needs to get out..Some sheep will call me crazy,or whacko,thats ok…FACT IS I/we have been right all along…The coverup has been exposed, the Muslim has been revealed…The plan is been blown wide open….get ready my friends…

        An Obama classmate speaks out
        Yes, Wayne Allyn Root’s statement below has been “Correctly Attributed.”
        The link to Snopes.com is at the end of his statement.
        If Obama is re-elected in 2012, the US is finished.
        The following is in simple language that everyone can understand.
        Not the gibberish that our government keeps telling people.
        Please read this carefully and make sure you keep this message going.
        This needs to be emailed to everyone in the USA …
        OBAMA’S COLLEGE CLASSMATE SPEAKS OUT

        By Wayne Allyn Root
        Barack Hussein Obama is no fool. He is not incompetent.
        To the contrary, he is brilliant. He knows exactly what he’s doing.
        He is purposely overwhelming the U.S. Economy to create systemic
        failure, economic crisis and social chaos – thereby destroying
        capitalism and our country from within.
        Barack Hussein Obama was my college classmate.

        http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/overwhelm.asp
        Last point: think about what this designed “rule

        • Southern Boy says:

          Yes sir! I’ve read that before, and I (as well as my close “group” of friends) not only believe this to be the case…. we KNOW it to be the case.

          Thanks for sharing, and hey… from what I gather… all these posts eventually go off topic! Something as good as what you posted shouldn’t get anyone’s panties in a wad! :D

        • SilverFox says:

          Thank you Arizona Fred. I agree with you about the U.S. being finished if B HO is re-elected. However, he works for the puppet masters and if someone beats him then they will be working for the puppet masters and we are still just as finished.

          • Radioactive Rain says:

            You are absolutely correct SF. That is a truth that many people can’t seem to wrap their heads around. What’s happening to this country is exactly what the puppet master families planned from the get-go. It has been generational, exercised with patience, but it seems they have gone full throttle at this time. It is my opinion (and I hope I am wrong, but actual postings by insiders say it is so) that it will happen this year and they plan to finish this year with what they refer to as the “usher”. Be strong.

          • They used to say “the dumbest people on the planet voted for GWBush, twice”. After November they won’t be able to say that anymore.

        • Shane Vandrell says:

          Fred: Wo, that article was a really good. I hope to share it with many! Don’t know how you found it, but good job! God Bless.

        • Surfer guy says:

          Well Dudes. when everything falls apart at least you dudes will be ready. Ill stop on by for some munchies if you dont mind. Im sure Ill get tired of eating grass. I dont have much to offer but Im a good listener.

        • Surfer guy says:

          Oh. I forgot. Can I bring my mom too? Im sure if this happens her cash card the state gives her wont work. She needs her beer and cigs. I know how to grow my own smokes but does anyone know how to make beer?
          Thanks Dudes.

          • StoneAge says:

            Barley Hops water and yeast. Crack the dried barley, Cook in water at about 110 deg for an hour or so. Drain the liquid and boil the the double hockey sticks out of it. Add hops.

            Cool quickly and add yeast. 2 weeks you have beer.

            Very simplified version, but that’s basically it. :-)

            Man shall NOT go without BEER :-)

        • Comenius says:

          Same thing could be said about Romney.

        • John says:

          I saw a video interview on YouTube maybe 2 years ago where Mr Root states that none of his Columbia classmates remember Obama from back then. He also mentions how he, Mr Root, was chosen to speak during their reunion while Obama was not even considered (apparently, because nobody knew him from college). Ultimately, his point appeared to be that Obama simply did not attend that school as he said he did, or at least no classmates remember him being there.

        • Txred says:

          So Mr Root attended Columbia with Obama but claims not to remember him… That makes SO much sense.

      • EAGLEDOVE says:

        Same here Daisy.., I am putting my money toward physical books also.

        1. Prepping books.
        2. First aid
        3. Gardening

        A book you all might want to look at is called: “Dare to Prepare”, by Holly Deyo. It’s over an inch thick and over 500 pages.

        I have approx. 75 books in my collection.

        • Burt the Brit says:

          Eagle dove

          A pre- electric tool DIY book from a secondhand shop is one of my favourites, covers everything around the home and garden.

          Also a couple of decent history books detailing how things were put together first time around could be useful in the long term.

          Mrs Beeton style cookery books that detail everything to do with home management in pre-electricity days.

          Take care

          • Burt, what year is the Mrs. Beeton book from? I’m looking for one before my Fannie Farmer cookbook, which is from the 1920s.

          • lonelonmum says:

            The 1st edition of Mrs Beeton is dated 1861 Daisy. I have several cookbooks from that era.

            I also have my Grandad’s books from when he was an apprentice Blacksmith/toolsmith back in the 1920′s. They were second hand for him and the oldest is dated 1745. I loved helping him as a little girl in his forge, but sadly as a girl he didn’t pass onto me all the skills he could have done. My metal & wood working skills are far in advance of my knitting & crochet!

            I’m no engineer like my ex(crap at maths) but am generally good with my hands and have a bent towards crafty type stuff. My granny taught me to create my own dress patterns and to look at how to “make do & mend” around the home.

            My autistic son is showing a real scientific bent so I’m collecting old books for him on botany, herbal medicines & wild edibles (his visual memory is truly impressive).

            He’s also intuitive with animals so I’m enrolling him for riding lessons this summer ( + a couple of hours a week mucking them out at a local stables!) as I have a gut feeling basic knowledge of horses may stand him in good stead for transport at some point in the next 50 years for transport.

            My family are all avid collectors of books of all types – between us the library is getting to be pretty impressive and well worth passing onto the next generation. We all collect on our favourite topics and are like squirrels so none ever get thrown out.

            What I don’t have is basic electronics knowledge/books (despite being qualified to teach the subject to age 16 in the UK!) Someone on this forum said they were going to produce a “how to” on basic solar set ups etc for preppers. How is that project moving along as I deffo want a copy!

            The BBC did a wonderful set of books and TV series on the Victorian and Edwardian farms – well worth the money on amazon for ideas of things to do with the children.

            Books aren’t enough for a LOT of the old skills. My Granddad did a proper 7 year apprenticeship to master his trade & it would take that long working under a master craftsman to learn many much needed skills from stonemasonry to carpentry to a useful standard if the grid went down & mass manufactured “kits” for many things weren’t available for a time.

            It’s simple stuff that worries me – jars for canning. I don’t know any local glass blowers if these were broken as they eventually would be.

          • KY Mom says:

            Burt and Daisy,

            I agree! Mrs. Beeton’s Book of Household Management is a great book! I got a copy when we lived in England some years back.

            The original book was printed in 1859. There have been a number of reprints. You can probably find this online, if you can’t find it locally.

            KY Mom

          • KY Mom says:

            Correction…

            According to the book jacket, portions of the book were originally published from 1859-1861 in monthly supplements to a woman’s magazine. The book was first published in 1861.

          • Thanks, KY Mom – I’ll be looking to add that one soon!

          • From the NoRtH says:

            JUSt ready the Bible every thing you need to know is in ther the THE Official PReper bOOK HOLY BIBLE! =)

          • Mark V says:

            From the NoRtH: They had bibles and not much else during the Dark Ages, which lasted for a thousand years.

          • EAGLEDOVE says:

            @ Burt

            Thanks for the info ! HAPPY EASTER !!!

          • Burt the Brit says:

            Try not o collect old medical books…most are useless many are dangerous.

            Take care

        • carynverell says:

          books of all kinds…history, philosophy, science, prepping, cooking, sewing, building, mechanics, and so on so forth. not just for when things shut down either. i am even putting strictly entertainment books away also…such as poetry, plays, music, sports stories, etc… i know that if shtf there are gonna be lots to do in the way of staying safe, fed, sheltered etc..but i also know that it helps the mind and soul if one can escape into a good book every now and then..it can be as energizing as a good nights sleep.

          • don't-tread says:

            Back up,way back and punt, Mark V. With all due respect; “they” didn’t have bibles. What bibles were available were controlled by the Priest and royality of the time. Most people couldn’t read or write anyway. The only thing the people knew, was what they were fed. Most were fed bull caca and kept in the dark. you know, like mushrooms and like the sheeple of today. We are given tidbits of truth and enough BS to confuse even that.

        • old soldier says:

          Daisy/EAGEDOVE: right on the “money”. A good reference library is VERY necessary. I’ve been accumulating books for my library along the “necessary skills” list. My background is in medicine, consequently that’s what I’m getting, along with a few books on gardening. After reading this article I realize I need to broaden out regarding books on how things work. It’s articles like this one that give me a necessary reminder to stop procrastinating and speed up my preparations.

      • Rage says:

        I only have 2 Trucks and an SUV, I don’t have enough space for all of my books and my gear ! :)

        If I can get someone like George Noory to read and put all my books on CD or a flash drive, that would be cool ! Switch it up with Alanis Morissette.

        I have the solar to run comp so I could listen to the book, just seeing the back end off my Ford dragging the ground because of some books is going to kill my gas mileage

      • laura m. says:

        I only own few basic reference books: dictonary, Bible and commentaries, world history, medical ref., alt. medicine, herbs, gardening, home repair, etc. all non fiction. All “conspiracy/global elite” books, booklets, dvd’s, etc. once seen or read, are immediately passed on to others. Books can really cause clutter, and after (if)the country collapses, these type books, dvds, will be useless. A good idea would be to have one family in each prepper group with lots of space like an extra room, to set up a library with others contributing; just in case society collapses. Home schooling books a must too for young families.

        • KY Mom says:

          The Foxfire Series would be a great addition to a home library. They have them available online and at Lehman’s store in Ohio.

          Lehman’s has a section of do it yourself and old time skills.

      • Tom Chatham says:

        A good resource for obsolete tech books is http://www.lindsaybks.com. they have a lot of great books for the do-it-yourselfer.

        • JustMe says:

          I was going to post that link. The Gingery Series of small machines is an awesome set. Lindsay specializes in “lost-tech” type books, of topics most people have long forgotten.

        • John W. says:

          I have a 1923 Radio Amateurs Handbook. Amazing how primitive things were less than 90 years ago. Wonder if ten years from now the ability to even produce that technology will exist.

      • Burt the Brit says:

        Hiya Daisy

        Mrs Beeton was originally published in 1891 but there have been many reprints…eBay and amazon have it. The good thing is it has everything to do with the home in it, all without electricity and gadgets.everything from tenderising cheap meat to keeping your whites white.

        It’s called Mrs Beetons book of household management. There’s another similar thing but I can’t remember the name, next time I am in the roof space I will have a look and email you the details.

        Take care

        • carynverell says:

          hey there burt….i also have taken the time the last several years in actually collecting and learning to use alot of non electric tools for gardening, cooking and other household chores as well as my favorite thing to do which is sewing. i intend to continue to make a living no matter what happens!

        • Thanks, Burt!!! Sounds excellent – I’m looking forward to reading it! :)

      • Daisy, I’m finding that a library of practical book about various subject is really cheap to build. I too am building one. Every time I hit yard sales, etc. I pick up volumes of information for almost nothing. A couple dollars worth might be more than you can carry. Meat processing, edible plants, gardening, carpentry, electrical, plumbing, auto repair, solar energy, nursing, medical info, anything!

        They’ll take a book that was 10 or 15 bucks and its in a yard sale for 25c. Expensive, new looking stuff is 50c or $1. I just keep picking it up and shelving it. I have, maybe, $20 invested in yard sale books and its a load of stuff.

        Cheap way to get stuff to barter too. Those books might be worth their weight in gold if the ‘Net takes an EMP and goes down for the count.

        • Hi Net Ranger – most of my stash is second hand as well. I also get cheapo fiction that I’ve picked up for small change at yard sales, and after I’ve read them, I unload them for credits at a used book store nearby. I’ve acquired some more recent non-fiction that way. :)

        • Burt the Brit says:

          Net ranger

          Many old medical books can be dangerous, be careful of anything written before medics had a full understanding of the problem.

          Books from about 1950 should be relatively okay, before 1940 medical books still recommend a trip to the Swiss Alps as a treatment for attacks of “the vapours”lol.

          I am compiling my own book as 99% of medical books will have in them 99% of the pages filled with stuff you will never need.

          Put together a folder with what you will need.

          How to treat gastroenteritis is a good example
          1. Conventionally in case you can get or have got the stuff
          2. Using alternative medicine/plants
          3. Old wives tales which often have a basis in truth otherwise nobody would have bothered passing them on. Put each condition in a plastic wallet so the info is all together, add to it if new info comes to light.

          Do the same for

          Burns and scalds
          Poisoning
          Food poisoning
          Simple fractures
          Wound cleaning and debridement etc etc etc

          In truth nobody in their right mind is going to be doing open surgery on the kitchen table, unless they happen to be trained and to be honest without facilities even that will not work out that well.
          There is nothing to be done in cases of cancer in all it’s forms
          Penetrating wounds, depending on where they are will most likely be untreatable.

          Go for things that you know you will face and can most likely treat with a bit of research beforehand.

          Get to know signs and symptoms of things that will be much more common, carbon monoxide poisoning, it used to be called cherry lips syndrome for a reason.

          Knowing what you are looking at can be the ultimate medical survival tool. The old adage used to be if in doubt strike it out, lancing a pus filled wound can prevent blood poisoning, I have not been very eloquent in this post but I think you will get my drift.

          Take care

      • Odd Questioner says:

        Physical books are awesome resources to have. I have at least a literal ton of them so far (having moved recently, I can swear to that :) ).

        On the other hand, here’s something else to look towards keeping on hand:

        * Hand tools. Assloads of them, plus a good supply (at least two gallons) of light machine oil to rub on them over time so as to keep them in top shape. Woodworking, metal-working, machine tools, you name it. Learn how to use them all while you’re at it.

        * sharpening stones, spare leather sheets, spare cut lumber, spare drywall, spare sheets of glass(!), spare shingles, a metric shitload of nails and screws, a couple gallons of all-purpose paint (keep it sealed and it’ll be good for 10 years), spare insulation, baling wire and other such items.

        * spare fabric – get a ton of cheap-but-durable fabric as it goes on sale. Also include needles, scissors (a dozen good pair), and the like. It’ll be easier to make new clothes that way than to try and weave your own stuff or salvage existing clothing.

        I’m sure you can let your mind keep going from there. :)

        • jojo says:

          “I’m sure you can let your mind keep going from there”….you got that right. I am scouring yard sales and second hand stores for a treadle sewing machine, just like my grandmother had.

          • Jojo – on the same vein, I’ve been buying old kitchen implements that don’t require power. I’ve acquired some cast iron cookware, a couple of old meat grinders, a coffee grinder, a coffee press and an applesauce mill.

          • StoneAge says:

            Hi Daisy.. And what will you do when your coffee supply runs out??? :-) won’t be able to head to the grocery store for more …

      • Chef Nunzio says:

        I know a VERY simple, surefire way to make copper wire: let two Jews fight over a penny.

      • John Q. Public says:

        For anone ignorant enough to use the term and believe the false imagery of “dark ages”:
        Those Terrible Middle Ages: Debunking the Myths
        http://www.amazon.com/Those-Terrible-Middle-Ages-Debunking/dp/0898707811

        It is the enemies of Jesus Christ who want you to believe that their materialistic, usurious, enslaved, and genocidal dystopia is superior to the peaceful and pastoral Middle Ages of Christendom. The most evil behavior of Christendom is a drop in the bucket compared to the ocean of evil wrought by the dynastic banksters and their synagogue.

    2. rachel says:

      anyone ever go through an old handyman’s book will find we already lost some knowledge.

      • Doug says:

        You make a very good point. In the past a carpenter knew how to make square corners, now some builders are lost without their electronic gizmos. The examples are almost endless.

        • realifemechanic says:

          Why is it called a handymans book? It is obvious that the schools in the US stopped teaching the industrial arts 30 years ago infavor of every kid going to college even if they had no idea of any major or talent. The only thing that matters is THE COLLEGE FUND AND THE ABILITY TO PAY BY LOANS OR THE PARENTS CREDIT. Then the corporates send all the mediocre jobs overseas. Except for the mechanical and repair
          jobs that cant be done from india or some other third world cesspool. These jobs have to be done in the US collapse or not.

        • Jimmy Carter says:

          How many carpenters can still build stairs?

          • FROM the North says:

            GEt redy for the SENSE ofence Police! take this pill youl be FINE LOL!

          • FROM the North says:

            Almost like EQUiLIBRIUM good movie! BAH BAH!

          • DomesticTerrorist says:

            I’m not a carpenter and I figured out how to build them. Designed my own template for stringers of a given slope, traced it, cut ‘em out, etc and built a very sturdy set of stairs.

            Then I noticed pre-made stringers at Home Depot LOL!

            I kind of “free form” build stuff. I’ve got a “hutch” over my desk here that I built to give me some extra space for test instruments etc. I didn’t have a miter box that the wide piece of wood I used would fit in, so I just held my handsaw in such a way that it got to “home in” on it’s natural angle, straight up and down, while sawing. My cuts came out dead on. I screwed the thing together and it’s straight, not tippy, just dead on. Even I’m kind of amazed.

            The best thing you can do to become “handy” is move to a rural location where you’re on a few acres and you’re forced to learn to fix and even invent stuff.

          • DieselDan says:

            Not many at all, everything is automated now or people don’t want to pay for them. Stringers screwed together are not stairs!! A framing square will allow you to get every angle you need to build a house, it will take you years and years to be able to use it efficicently and correctly! I’ve been usuing one for almost two decades and still have not used all they can offer. Funny I built some steps this week took me two days and I guarentee you the stairs will be around longer than I am!!!

          • hammerhead says:

            jimmy , had to jump in here , you are correct other builders call me to build their staircases.
            there are no vocational trade schools anymore so kids that work for me havent got a clue starting out.
            as a builder the one thing i have noticed or late, is that fewer kids are entering the trade and helpers are harder to find . combine that with a down housing market and you got yourself a whole generation of carpenters lost. without a collapse or catastrophe , the building trade is in trouble.

      • I like old cookbooks for this very reason – they are gadget free and don’t rely on convenience foods – just good solid information on preparing things completely from scratch!

        There are many “lost arts” out there!

    3. salvadordaly says:

      I am currently working on solar and wind energy just to power a couple lights at night and maybe a hot plate for cooking incase of long term power outages. It really does not seem that hard just takes a lot of research is what I am finding to be the hardest. I would like to charge a battery bank that would carry over into the night. Plus use less candles, and cooking fuel. Plus it is a renewable resource, as long as it is sunny or windy. Just a little added comfort that could go a long way. I too have a massive collection of books on all kinds of survival skills that would be way to expensive to print. If I could charge my laptop using solar and wind power, wow, I would feel real good. As good as I could in that situation.

      • realifemechanic says:

        The hardest part of repairs on any apparastus is having the proper tools,
        the knowlegde and info to make a repair is secondary.The tools and ability to fix thi
        ngs will be the greatest barter item after the coming collapse.

        • The Old Coach says:

          Skills and knowledge can’t be stolen from you, cost nothing to maintain or transport, and they never run out or wear out. Better than PMs, ammo, or anything else as trade goods. (Unless your skills are in some pre-Apocalypse technology like fixing iPads.) If you’ve done your homework, your skill set will include making your tools.

      • Salvador – A cool item to add might be a fresnel lens taken from an old big screen television. it’s a flat piece of plastic maybe 3 by 4 feet which can concentrate the rays of the sun to cook food, boil water, start fires, and in some case, possibly melt aluminum. Green Power Sicence dotcom is a good source of these things, plus many instructional videos on YouTube.

        • Jimmy Carter says:

          I can vouch for that. You can get one free from any rear projection TV. I used one to make pasta the other day. Focused drectly on a pot it boiled water (about 1L) almost as fast as my electric range. BE CAREFUL and wear dark eye protection. I ruined a pair of synthetic gloves instantly and made a board burst into flames within seconds. Same technology used in lighthouses.

          The chick from GPS is hot, and her videos would be worth watching even if she wasn’t.

          • Prepper says:

            Jimmy – When handling a large fresnel lens, you have to treat it as if it is a lit acetylene torch. If you’re not careful you could burn down your house, start your clothing on fire, even ruin the macadam blacktop on your driveway. Fresnel lenses are great in a power-down situation as long as you are ultra-careful.

            Green Power Science also make cool parabolic mirrors that are used in somewhat the same way to cook food, boil water, or start fires.

            News flash: Sex sells, and the guy who owns Green Power Science is trying his best to sell as much as he can. But as preppers, we should all be watching and learning, and on occasion maybe buying. Jimmy, sounds like you’re still lusting after women even after all these years.

      • Burt the Brit says:

        I agree totally salvador. Trying to find the relevant information is hard and time consuming due to the volume of info to wade through.

        I am looking at the same thing but the deep cycle batteries are bloody expensive and rarely seem available second hand.

        Take care

        • The Old Coach says:

          I just save my old car batteries. A battery that won’t crank a car still has quite a lot of capacity in it, and the price is often zero or at worst the “core charge” at the parts store, which is usually $15 or so. On a cost-effectiveness basis they do pretty well.

          To keep my computers and peripherals alive, I bought an old 1000 watt “battery backup” on eBay, minus the battery. Some wires to my bank of car batteries, and I have a line charger, (as long as we have line voltage), a heavy-duty surge suppressor, as well as enough power to run my laptop, my satellite modem, my “portable” phones system, plus some LED lighting, for many hours. For the long haul, I will connect solar panels to charge the battery bank, and use the battery backup as my inverter, keeping the load to 50% of it’s rating. (Solar panels wear out – I’m not putting them on-line until I absolutely have to.)

        • 6 volt golf cart batteries! still expensive.hint: get your local course maint man to order two for you on his next refit,then two more later. the power coupled with a 45 watt solar array will keep the lights on at night and charge your reusablesfor at least five years out. 12 volt true deep cycles are REALLY EXPENSIVE. if you gotta battery quetion just ask. i worked for exide technologies for3 years.delr@netscape.com

          • jojo says:

            My husband just replaced his 12 volt golf cart batteries and they are not cheap, b-u-t, the original Trojan batteries lasted 7 years! He replaced them with Trojan batteries. During the spring, summer and fall, he golfs every day of his life except Sunday When you cost average life span against that cost, it could be a cheap mode of short distance transportation. Retired people in Arizona license them and use them on the streets to go to the grocery store!

      • JRS says:

        Sal…I’ve posted this before but another time won’t hurt.If you are looking to make some solar energy on the cheap you can buy the cells, buss wire and flux on ebay for less than $1.00 a watt. Just get a couple old storm windows from Craiglist or wherever and solder the cells sandwiched between two windows.It is actually not hard to do. You can buy a grid tie inverter to slow your meter down now, while if the power goes out you can then switch over to your battery bank with a different inverter.Best of both worlds.

      • don't-tread says:

        I’m with ya salvadordaly. i’m currently at a standstill with the wind generator. Have a simple solar system that will keep my 5 cubic ft. Holiday chest freezer running. The setup is this: Purchased a 50 watt solar panel for $250.00 from Northern Tool, two deep cell Marine batteries w/120 amp-hr.rating(very heavy) from walmarket @ about $90.00 each, and a 2300 watt continuous/4500 watt surge/start-up capacity inverter. The inverter was on sale for $200.00 and it can handle tough jobs. Better to go larger than too small. Made that mistake in the past trying to save a dollar and have two small inverters that are basically only good for radios and CD players. Anyways, we can keep the little chest freezer going and make ice to keep two heavy insulated coolers going for refrigerated items. The little chest freezer uses only about 750 watts to get started and hums along on 45 watts. I have both batteries hooked together and haven’t had any problems. I owned a 14 cubic foot Holiday chest for 20 years and hope to get half that life from the small one(if need be).

    4. The realist says:

      The reality is that we’ve come to far to turn back now.

      The human race in my opinion has evolved “too fast” in the last 30 years.. Thanks to microsoft, apple and our “new world” comrad – facebook..

      It may be true that our human race may need to take 1 step back to then be able to go 2 steps forward..

      But nevertheless.. We will survive.. Its all in our human preservation instincts that will push us forward into the future.

      Just remember this— “if the sky is falling..put your hands up!!

    5. Mal Reynolds says:

      Well, if we get another Carrington event, we’re going to see 99% of humanity wiped out… at least in the industrialized world. Your neighborhood will look like the south side of Chicago in no time. And if you live in the south side of Chicago… well… It’ll be even worse, I guess. (Anybody know if that’s possible?)

      Three kinds of books I buy:
      1. “Prepper” books
      2. Handyman books
      3. Books about US history and our Constitution that weren’t written by socialist scumbags, so my kids and grandchildren will know what a constitutional Republic is.

      Time for a bourbon,
      Mal

      • GrayFoxGreen says:

        Greetings Everyone!
        Great article(at least here we can get something “unfiltered” by what likes to pass itself off as mainstream media,what ever that means)
        I fully agree with the Author’s premise,one of trying at least to cope with a crumbling Empire well past it’s “golden age”.These are the times we’re handed,no matter what we long for.I personally don’t wish even our current rulers to disappear,if only because I(even if I can cope)DON’T want lack of basic medical care,roads and communication systems and most important,sanitary water and waste disposal.I can create a outhouse,well and grow most of my own food,but what for?I have what I need for the present which allows me to dwell on things on a higher level than basic survival.Things will get worse,sooner or later.But sitting in a bunker with my weapon in my hands and minimal supplies is not something to hope for.Prepare for even in a minor way,perhaps,be not hoped for.
        Just my thoughts
        Huzza!
        I’m NOT First!
        Best to All
        GFG

    6. Poor Boy says:

      I’ve found that a really good place for information is old military manuals. Especially if you can get your hands on the ones from the 50′s and 60′s. These have a lot of basic instruction on how to create many useful things for basic life survival from nothing but what is laying around. Also some of the best applied basic engineering principles I’ve ever come across.

    7. the survivor says:

      forever, I will not enjoy it,but it will be like living in the 40s again, the great thing about it is if I’m speaking with someone, they’ll be listening, not playing with an Ipod.

      • laura m. says:

        the survivor: Even back in the 80′s (favorite decade) people didn’t go around with ear pods/head sets talking on cell phones almost constantly and or texting in public, stores, or while driving. The streets feel like a war zone as people aren’t paying attention driving, which is why I run errands/do biz in early morn.(less traffic) then get on home. People listened more then; no interruptions while dining either. Mine stays off except when I call out as it has voice msg. Few had cells in the 90′s.

    8. Sid Davis says:

      My definition of technology is knowledge applied to resources; both are required. The American Indians walked around on top of resources that they lacked the knowledge to exploit, so they did not have technology. Building the knowledge base has been a slow process in human history.

      If we run out of resources, do we have technology? I think the answer is no; we just have knowledge and even that knowledge will disappear as it is no longer useable.

      The predicament of the future will not be lack of what is in our heads, but lack of what is under our feet. The most important resources we have are energy resources, and diminished availability of the most important one, oil, will even affect our ability to acquire the others. We face an energy constrained future unless some miracle discovery provides us with a replacement source that is at least as cheap as oil was before we ran out of cheap oil. Another important resource is phosphorous, the production of which is falling; this is an critical plant nutrient in agriculture.

      Consider that at the beginning of the industrial age, 400 years ago, the world population was 3/4 of a billion people, while today it is 7 billion and growing. Just think how remarkable it has been that it took all of a long human history to reach 3/4 of a billion, and then in just 400 short years population exploded, fed by the output of the industrial age. And consider that the 7 billion people who now live are heavily dependent on the output of the energy dependent industrial age to survive. This is not a comforting thought.

      • Cimerian says:

        Technology is the thing that will develope or discover the new energy source to power the future. Just like it did in the past.

      • don't-tread says:

        Books are great and I’ve read many. I keep hard copies of everthing that needs to be used as a step-by-step process. The basic stuff, I keep in my head( hope the alziemers doesn’t rear it’s ugly head) and can recall all that is simple survival stuff. I really don’t think we are going to need libraries of technological information or even basic wood/metal/glass crafting stuff for the long haul. Why do I say this? I believe in the one and only handbook/guide for living and that was given to us by our Creator in the form of the KJV, but more importantly the Hebrew/Aramaic-Chaldea and Greek manuscripts. I do keep a hard-back copy of the Strong’s Concordance and The Companion Bible. These are very important books for getting the true meanings and a deeper understanding for the truths that were sometimes mis-translated by the “old english” language. Nix any of the “newer translations” of the KJV; because, I’ve seen too many “truths” distorted to lead people astray from the meaning God intended for us to see. Anyways, I do believe whole heartedly in the letter our Father sent to us and from all that is written and prophesied, we won’t be needing any long term (15 to 30 plus years) of relying on survival and rebuilding of communities and societies. We will be living in the new heaven and earth age society without flesh bodies or need of the former things of this earth. “For the former things shall pass away”. Now I would be a fool to not prepare for a short term catastrophe or events that would mean living like they did in the 1800s. However, i don’t think that period will last no longer than a couple years at the most. God shortened the time of the antichrist from three and one half years to a period of only “five” months because he saw that the whole world would “whore” after him and “lest there would be NO flesh saved”. So I can only believe there will be really tough times for those that have not prepared accordingly. Some are already seeing those times. I feel sorry for them,especially the innocent children and the sick/poor elderly. I pray everyone can find some time on this “High Sabbath” to acknowledge this “Day of Passover” for what the true meaning is! No need to pass the plate around, just make sure to check out Mac’s advertiser’s and possibly send him a supportative dollar to keep this site up and running for as long as possible.

      • Anonymous says:

        you are a complete and utter moron!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    9. Arizona says:

      nowhere in the course of history has the alfa males had a war launched on them,but now they have been declared terrorists,and I would bet once the numbers decline enough the last of them will be rounded up and only drones will be left.the world can’t come back after there gone,It won’t matter how many books you have,they will be destroyed by threat of death and will all be burned-history OVER.after that only SLAVES,the elite will not allow more printing of books,mankind will go into darkness forever.You women-PLEASE consider what I’am saying HERE?

      • Cimerian says:

        That society of elites will not long survive without knowledge and then it will completely fall apart. Doesn’t matter if they claim to be elite, if they destroy the books they will also lose the ability to progress or even maintain their way of life. Dark ages will follow and then a new renessance.

    10. In addition to books, may I suggest the humble slide rule? That is what performed the calculations that put a man on the moon, built the Boeing 747, and every skyscraper and bridge up until the mid-1970′s. The calculator became affordable around my first year of college. By the time I graduated, slide rules were looked down on as primitive – “everybody” was using the new calculators. In the span of a bit more than three years, one technology completely crushed another technology. Although they are no longer manufactured, slide rules are still available on ebay and other places. A slide rule and a set of drafting instruments and the skill to use them could serve someone very well in a time such as that described by Mr. Chatham.

      • The Old Coach says:

        Excellent point !

        And I still have my early ’60s aluminum K&E somewhere. In high school we used to carry them around in leather scabbards on our belts, like gunfighters. Nerds. Now that we rule the world, we’ve forgotten how we got here.

        OTOH, try doing the Fourier Transform on a slide rule. Heck, I don’t even fully understand it, but I can use it for all kinds of useful things, as long as I’ve got a computer and the software.

    11. VRF says:

      IRS Commissioner Won’t Stay for Second Term

      another rat leaving the sinking ship?

      note how many high profile positions that are bowing out..taking an early retirement..etc..

      things that make you go , hummmmm?

    12. The realist says:

      There is Only 1 entity that has the answer to when the end of the World is to happen-

      GOD…

      We are just mice.. Let loose by his good grace.. “or for his viewing and amusement pleasure”

      What we decide to do in this lifetime has nothing to do with His Final plan..

      Focus on prepping and getting on gods good side.. Or you will be not riding a fema train.. But the Hell Express elevator!!

    13. Rage says:

      Goodwills and Thrift stores are goldmines for finding old cook books and “How to” books,

    14. countrygirl says:

      I think of how many resources I go to the internet for and it is scary. I have a twenty pound dictionary that I never use, but won’t part with. My kids aren’t used to using encyclopedias. Books will be gold, entertainment, education, medical and rebuilding. I know in a bug out situation the books will stay, but other then that books are a big part of our preps and lives.

      • We can’t underestimate the value of fiction, either. While I have a lot of important books with how-tos, books that we can read just for enjoyment will be very important in a world without tv and internet.

        • Giurza says:

          I can’t imagine post apocalypse without my Umerto Eco’s Name of the Rose or JRRT’s books… so yes, some very carefully selected fiction needs to be squeezed in an already cramped BOV

    15. A fresnel lens used to cook food, boil water, or start fires seems like a handy thing to have around if the grid goes down. Click my name to see a web page from Green Power Science and be sure to learn the many uses of fresnel lenses. (I’m not affiliated with them. They just offer a ton of information highly relevant to this discussion.)

      • mark says:

        thanks for the great tip.i’ve got a 52″projection tv i’ve been trying to give away and nobody wants it. not giving it away now. the video is very impressive. reminds me of cooking ant with a magnifying glass.
        next on my list is a fresnel lens stand

    16. VRF says:

      some stuff you can prep for, some stuff you can read up on, some things you can learn about..but I feel that the ability to adapt will be the hardest skill for some to aquire.

      also remember, just because you read about it, doesnt mean you now have the skill to acomplish the same.

      I think this will be a dynamic learning experiance for many , some wont have the skill set, some wont have the balls, and some dont have what it takes even if it looks good on paper.

      PTSD isnt always something you get from being at war on the front lines my friends.

      • carynverell says:

        you are right…that is why i think it is so very important to test your skills now and not later. do a garden, use non electric tools, use the treadle sewing machine, read you book out in the daylight under a shade tree or by the light of kerosene lamp…whatever it is, and whatever happens, the most important thing now is to get busy and put things not just in storage for the day the shtf..but to live like it has already happened. this is also a very good way to find out where your weaknesses are and give you room for improvement.

        • bugger says:

          A show of hands, please… How many have a hand drill (not cordless)? A brace & bit is handy for wood.

          The premise of this article is regression in a case like the Roman empire fizzling out. They were quite advanced Technolically & a lot had to be relearned over centuries. Imagine where technology would be if all that had not been lost. OTOH we may have already made ourselves extinct by now.

          • curious george says:

            bugger- a lot of people here believe that we will all be taken back to “the Dark Ages”… I for one do NOT believe that, simply because in those days, the contributing factors to the loss of information was two fold– the Black Plague and a mini Ice Age that hit Europe. Barring these events, we won’t expect to see this decline. UNLESS, I and many others lose their knowledge with the help of a fast moving chunk of lead via a civil war. During the Medieval times, knowledge was lost mainly due to the events presented, and the fact that the people of that time were interested in saving themselves and family from starvation. Prioritizing was a large factor in the loss of knowledge.

          • REB says:

            I count 5 with lots of old and modern bits/drills/drivers…adzes,axes drawknives,chisels,saws,files,rasps,and so on…thats just wood working tools(nonelectric)…I too have lots of old books and hand tools that I use daily so that I wont be thrown into chaos if things go bad….

    17. Auntie Commie says:

      When our Republic is replaced by a Marxist form of “State Capitalism”, many of the books that we now hold Dear will be burned. If you are old enough you might remember Mao’s “The Cultural Revolution” in China cira 1970′s.

      Besides the usual stuff like extra ammo, food, PM’s I’ve stashed copies of our Founding Documents and Bibles.

      Prep for the worst-pray for the best.

      • Cimerian says:

        Fahrenheit 451

      • Comenius says:

        Actually the Chinese themselves think the CR was not that bad.

        Somebody wrote a book about two Chinese students who were sent to the boondocks. They teach a pretty peasant girl Balzac.

        And, lo and behold, the girl becomes enlightened and leaves to Shanghai. The two guys find the folly of their work and burn the remaining books they had.

        That tells the meaning of the cultural revolution ; it was better for China, and the rest of the world, to keep the billions at dark.

    18. eric says:

      I was wondering that if the people that make these things we just hear of and use them but we will have to take apart a lot of things to figure out how stuff works I guess. as all of us say on here if you can get a kevlar vest cheap or wait till they raid us and get one off a dead person its up to you. I think that they are trying so hard to get around the constitution but thank god our founding fathers were really bright to keep people like obama from taking over. He is trying to take over but I was reading on intel hub and it had an article about secret people in the higher ups who are looking at these elite destroyers of this country and want to remove them,. I hope that that is true.

    19. Satori says:

      nuclear power
      the demon we let out of the box

      http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-14-07/largest-short-term-threat-humanity-fuel-pools-fukushima

      when this “technology” fails
      Japan needs to evacuate

    20. Tomahawk says:

      I’m fond of the Backwoodsman magazine. Lots of good info in there; not just from Frontier Americana, but also some of the more practical modern stuff, and how to modify everyday items to wilderness living.

    21. SmokinOkie says:

      The Evolution Of A Prepper

      1970s– as a teenager I began to dream of a homesteader/ self sufficient lifestyle, but kept working for the man(paychecks buy beer and beer makes all women beautiful)
      1980s– got married, had kids, bought a minivan(insert red-faced embarrassment here), kept working for the man(paychecks buy groceries and diapers, and the wife is beautiful even when I’m sober)
      1990s– kids are about grown, wife still beautiful, I’m still sober… and still working for the man. BUT, we finally bought a piece of land! (now all we need is 100,000 man hrs of sweat to turn this weedpatch into a farm)
      2000s– the nest is empty(yes, if you teach them little birds properly, they will learn to fly on their own), land is paid off, wife still beautiful, I’m still sober. [Side note to husbands: the more you drink the worse you are as a husband. Conversely, the more she drinks, the better looking you are. make sure she drinks a lot] Still working for the man but I’m beginning to see that the man don’t give a rat’s ass about me.
      2010s– home situation still the same (wife is sauced but beautiful, I’m sober but crazy. hey- it works for us!) little birds still flying on their own, the land is now up to 3% farm and only 97% weedpatch- we’re making progress, discovered a site called shtfplan.com, began to fill in major gaps of ignorance about the true state of world affairs, got fitted for my first tin-foil hat, it fits nicely, YET- I’m still working for the man and now I’m sure that the sob would trade me for a half priced illegal in a new york minute. Only difference is that now I understand some things. And I’m arming up, stocking up, and I’m not nearly as dependent on a functioning system as before(still dependent but not completely), and most importantly- I’m STILL LEARNING.
      2020s–???……

      • Auntie Commie says:

        I got 10 years on you cowboy, much wisdom written here by you often, you show talent.

        My gut tells me that what’s left of America will be up to It’s ass in trouble by long before the 20′s.

        Obama’s not really running for reelection, he’s pushing what is left of the Middle Class to the edge and into the pit of civil unrest. FED policy, race baiting whites, ect. Classic Marxist tactic, but you know that already don’t you?

        What’s going to happen when he gets reelected, how are folks goin to react? Do we stand by and let the United States end?

      • Burt the Brit says:

        Smokin

        Hello.

        Your wit and wisdom brighten my day and gives me hope. All the very best to you and yours.

        Take care

    22. Be informed says:

      What is the biggest problems with society reconstructing itself after technology for whatever reason falls apart is transportation of raw goods to be manufactured into finished goods. There are brilliant minds that can build the basics and get us by, but trying to rebuild civilization after some collapse will take a centralized approach. Fragmented outposts spread throught the world are likely not going to work unless they are linked together and to a central point where goods can flow into to be refined.

      Modern society has its advantages but also many disadvantages in that people have become so dependent on the gadgets that they cannot function without them if and when things go to hell. On other sites I have used the Jetsons cartoon as an analogy to just how soft people have become because the flip of a switch does practically everything for them. It has also made people extremely lazy and also dependent on other servicing them. Many people don’t even have a clue how to home cook a meal. It is like a car that is so dependent on the onboard computer and has so many electronic components that when something happens to it, the car is trashed and cost a small fortune to repair. An older car on the other hand is simply and can be repaired with minimum work and will usually continue to work when something goes wrong for awhile.

      One of the simplest approaches for the prepper and people that are serious about being ready for a possible technological collapse is to start to live a more simple life and stop depending on modern everything to function. People can start to cook their own food instead of getting take out or going out to dinner. You’ll save much money and eat healthier. People can turn off the cell phone and leave it only for emergencies. In other words start living like it is the year 1970 or even 1950.

      People will be amazed just how much their minds will clear without all the horse crap clutter is cleaned out that people call the modern world. People now have become so accustomed to be entertained and it is like when they are not they are depriving themselves of everything that life as to offer. The more someone can get away from this and more into a simplier way of life without the modern things we DON’T NEED, the easier it will be to go without when someone is forced to because of the circumstances.

      To each his own, some people just cannot go without certain modern items, but the more you cannot go without the more severe the shock will be when it is not there. Besides this modern day toys and things that someone doesn’t actually need is money and resources that can be spent for preparation items that you will absolutely need when times fall apart.

      Almost all of us are in dependent of something from the modern world, but the closer we are to be self reliant from the modern world the closer we are to being able to adapt to a world without.

      • Anonymous says:

        Right!! A lifestyle change it is. To celebrate this, I stopped buying Johnny Walker Red and started making my own dandelion wine. Now I wake up in the yard getting fresh supplies.

      • Led_Dis_Spencer says:

        As I was reading your post I rerilized I didnt even have to turn a page to read this thread. Also, as I type I dont need to know how to spell. (left spellcheck alone on poorpuse) lol. Nice life we have….

        Washington State says >>>>>>>>Happy Easter<<<<<<< <)
        —————-(_|_)

    23. The Old Coach says:

      A very accurate and thought-provoking article. Good job Mac.

      Having been professionally engaged in a very large and very high-tech manufacturing industry before retirement, I can confirm the incredible interdependence of our high technologies. There are so many small, even tiny things that can bring a high technology factory to a screeching halt that it’s scary if you let yourself think about it. One factor I fought was that there were so few people who knew how to make key parts of our software work. One of ours was killed in a car accident. That left us with ONE guy in the whole damned world who “knew the runes”, and HE lived in Germany. Until we trained up another guy, which took over a year, losing HIM could have brought GM/Ford/Chrysler to their knees as soon as some glitch in the software developed that the field techs couldn’t understand. And I was working for a pretty large corporation, not some back-alley shop.

      I purposefully chose my BOL to be a place where people not only survived but thrived in the 18th and 19th centuries. All the ingredients and environmental factors for low-tech survival must be here, or they wouldn’t have. My library is full of books about 19th and even 18th century technology. And I’ve not only read them, I’ve studied them. I’m too old to actually DO much, but I can teach.

      • lonelonmum says:

        Interesting. I’m in the process of trying to relocate – been held up by my son needing therapies (autistic) only available in the big city for a few years : (

        Top of my list for sites to relocate to was availability within 20 miles of fuel, and iron from our new home. The oft quoted water source didn’t seem to me to be enough. For us it’s near a coal resource as the UK doesn’t have the woods and forests available to US citizens.

        I also looked at where the locals live an “old school” lifestyle as a matter of course. The less dependent the community is on gizmos and the more basic skills people within that community people have like scratch cooking, gardening, keeping chooks etc, DIY then the better I feel our long term chances will be. This took more time than I thought it would to find – it’s suprising how dependent many rural communities are on just in time delivery etc when it comes down to it. Very few communities could cope with anything approaching 50% self-sufficiency here in the UK even if they did all work together for a common goal – too many lost skills.

        Just hoping I haven’t waited too long to make the move by prioritising my son’s therapies. (I have spent time learning basic applied behavioral analysis and SALT to continue to help him myself once we move – my library also includes info on this so he can help his own kids when the time comes).

    24. Burt the Brit says:

      Off topic

      UK Home Office website taken down by Anonnomous. I’ll do the link in words, it may not go to moderation that way lol.

      Double u double u double u dot bbc news dot co dot uk

      Take care

    25. Kevin2 says:

      Well having cut my eye teeth in a 1920s vintage power plant over three decades ago that had very little maintenance outside of the pressure vessels before advancing into modern power generation I could go back a 100 years and be useful. If we went back to the age of steam could fit in quite nicely.

      Putting the above aside I unfortunately occasionally need 21st century medical technology like cath’s, stints and modern drugs.

    26. don't-tread says:

      Prediction: Catastrophic event to take place within the USA before November. Most likely will be an “orchestrated” event that sends the nation into “chaos”. Hope I’m wrong! But, just in case, the prepping has been kicked up a notch and long term goals of making any kind of investment on anything other than planning to live like it’s the 1800′s again, is not on my list. Just sayin’. Keeping it real.

    27. ScoutMotto says:

      For the electronics folks like myself, this link offers up a small electronics kit stored in an Altoids tin. It could be quite useful in a pinch.

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/nickames/4121017825/

    28. Obama signs broccoli mandate

      WASHINGTON, DC (Rooters) –
      By J. Horsesnort, Associated Presstitutes

      April 12, 2013

      By a vote of 219 to 212, the newly re-elected Speaker of the House, Nancy Peulousy and her Democrat dominated House of Representatives passed the Broccoli Reform Bill, mandating all United States citizens to purchase – and eat – at least 5 tons of broccoli per year. Members of the current Congress were exempted from this requirement on page 8,432 of the measure, as were all unions contributing to the “Re-elect Obama for a Third Term” campaign, which kicked off the day after President Obama was sworn in three months ago. While no one in the recently re-elected Democratic Congress has actually read the bill yet, Speaker Peulousy indicated that the measure will cover the estimated 32 million Americans who currently do not have full broccoli coverage on their dinner plates. Low income individuals – primarily anyone who does not work for the government – will receive supplemental broccoli coverage, similar to the widely popular SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Plan) from the USDA, and its new sister plan, the U.N. mandated Supplemental Carrot Assistance Treaty (SCAT). The estimated cost of the reform over the next 10 years is currently expected to be $940 billion, which will be revised in three months time to $8,937 billion. A senior Obama administration official was quick to comment on this total expenditure, noting “Yes, this is a relatively large amount, but it is nothing we can’t print our way out of. Besides, even the revised figure is only 10% of the total cost of Michelle Obama’s last no-frills vacation, where she rented out the country of Lichtenstein for herself and 800 of her Chicago cronies.”

      Starting in 2016, individuals would be required to purchase broccoli coverage or face a fine of up to $695 or 2.5 percent of income, whichever is greater. The plan includes a hardship exemption for cauliflower eaters as well as a CO2/global warming exemption for those who get gas from broccoli. A “white folks” tanning bed tax of 10 percent would raise $2.7 billion between 2010 and 2019, and the administration is currently considering ways to tax those getting a tan outside from the sun. Companies with more than 50 employees will be required to pay the 10.9%: Broccoli Part A (broccoli insurance) tax rate, which will be increased by 12.35 percent per year. Kale and rutabaga eaters will be exempted up to 10% of their annual income per the “In Lieu Vegetable Rule,” as long as the kale or rutabagas are Monsanto approved.

      In related news, the Obama administration’s Broccoli Czar, Brachia Corrumpere, announced a $2 billion dollar government grant on Tuesday for a new solar powered broccoli factory, Broclyndra, to be located in Chicago. The newly appointed CEO, “Don” Corzini, stated from his head office in Antigua, which does not have extradition treaties with the US – that a new $735 million state-of-the-art robotic plant will utilize tax dollars from the rich by composting them, and using as fertilizer. Said Corzini “With our dollar already in the toilet, this is a truly fitting use for all that ‘extra’ money.”

    29. ScoutMotto says:

      A friend and I often bemoan the fact that with later versions of Windows, we cannot watch a boot sequence like we could in the older days. It’s as if those who developed it wanted to keep that knowledge hidden from the masses now. In my troubleshooting career, I’ve gone from repairing discreet circuits to repairing software issues. Computer hardware these days is simply replaced.

      I have a cordless phone I’ve been using since 1994. A few years ago the ear speaker went out. I removed it from the handpiece, checked with an ohmmeter and found it to be an open circuit. I was amazed to find the part available from a vendor online. The part was 3 bucks. Including shipping it was 12 bucks. Go figure. A few days later I attached and soldered the new ear speaker in, and my phone was back in business. I could just as easily have tossed the old phone in favor of something new, but I wanted to see if it could be repaired instead.

      Perhaps one of these days post-SHTF, we’ll be scrounging to put the nation’s electronics back into practice in the same way, though I won’t expect to just order parts online at that point.

    30. Barn Cat says:

      I don’t believe for a minute that when the collapse happens we’ll be heading for another dark age. Knowledge won’t be lost like it was after Rome collapsed. Many parts of the world are much better prepared than we are because they aren’t dependent on electricity and they’re already farmers. There will be a period of chaos followed by the one-world government prophesied in Revelation.

      • Auntie Commie says:

        Watch the SCO, ten members-ten horns. China, Russia, Iran, India and Pakistan being urged to join. There is your beast of Revelation. Marxism, Islam, Hindu, all wrapped into one big nasty military alliance.
        The U.S. has to be taken out of the way for this to happen, so watch for fireworks come Nov. 2012.

        He has risen, He has risen indeed!

        • justincase says:

          @ Aubtie Commie, The U.S. mexico and Canada are “stramiling” things so we can cross borders easier and loosening things up in the name of trade Hummmm? I read someplace that the the three of us will be joined as one nation. I am not sure if you heard of something called Chrisilam? It is being taught alot all over. It is the merging of Christianity and Islam. It has been reported on Christian tlevision. It is creeping into to churchs (the teaching of this new rligion) across the U.S. You can look it up. It is scary how “they” are trying to merge these 2 religions. I am all for everyones right to religion but do not force me into a belief as I choose not to force somebody into how I believe. More signs of the times.

        • don't-tread says:

          I like your comments. all but the “The US has to be taken out of the way for this to happen”… I think this is totally wrong for two,possibly three reasons. The USA is the superpower of superpowers because we as a whole are a blessed nation. The majority of the population are God’s true chosen people that can trace their heritage all the way back to the tribes of Manasseh and Ephraim, first sons of Joseph. If you’re caucasian or a mix, and have Lineage back to Great Britian, Germany, Scotch-Irish, Netherlands,etc.,etc. you are very well part of that covenantly blessed family. God may allow us to become chastised but in no way are we going to disappear. We may become one of the Ten horns with Mexico and Canada as a part but the nation known as America will not be removed.

        • Barn Cat says:

          It’s not a group of 10 nations. It’s the final government that will exist before Jesus destroys it and sets up His kingdom.

          (Dan 2:31-35 NIV) “You looked, O king, and there before you stood a large statue–an enormous, dazzling statue, awesome in appearance. {32} The head of the statue was made of pure gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, {33} its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of baked clay. {34} While you were watching, a rock was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and smashed them. {35} Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were broken to pieces at the same time and became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth.

          • Auntie Commie says:

            I mean no disrespect, but I got burned out debating theological points in Seminary.
            One point however, the feet of Daniel’s statue has ten toes, which might/might not mean anything?

            The Beast in Rev. is pictured as having 7 heads and ten horns, with a crown on each horn, as I recall. The horn being a symbol of political power.

    31. JustMe says:

      The PTB will do everything to reduce our access to technology. They hate the fact that people can communicate without them monitoring every utterance. They hate the fact that we have access to modern technology. Technology books will likely be confiscated/destroyed if they can manage to do so.

      Ironically, the people of 3rd world countries will likey fare better in some kind of world-collapse senario, because they are less reliant on technology for thier everyday needs.

      In a worldwide collapse, there will always be someone, somwhere who can revive technology. It would take 99% of humanity, and the planet being destroyed, to create a dark age from which we coluld not recover for any length of time.

    32. freeport56 says:

      There is a 3 volume set of books EVERYONE should own;

      “How Things Work”

      Detailed schematics on a vast array of devices and machines.

    33. VRF says:

      All this talk about books and such, Im going to admit Im not much of a book person..do reloading manuals count?

    34. Nexus789 says:

      If there was a systemic failure of our ‘systems’ it has been estimated that within very short space of time, a year to two at max. up to 90% of the population would be dead. Certainly anyone in city would have little or no chance given a collapse in medial and food supplies, energy, water and sewage. Rural communities would have a greater chance of survival.

      After this it would not be possible to recreate the previous ‘infrastructure’ as it was based on scale, mass and complexity something you could not replicate with 10% of the population. A whole new system would emerge.

      There are 400 nuclear plants around the world. How would cool all that waste nuclear material. Better hope that we don’t have a failure of our systems.

    35. Ohcumgache says:

      There is nothing as eloquent as a rattlesnakes tail. – Navajo

      So many people are mesmerized by the rattlesnake tail that Obama displays to them. The rattle is a warning from a venomous species that can strike like lightning and kill you. The people that idolize this serpent are willing participants in their own demise. They are afraid of losing their entitlements, afraid of thinking for themselves, afraid of, or oblivious to anything that resembles a life of freedom and hard work.

      The ones that see the danger when they hear the rattle, are the ones that will keep a distance from the snake and someday destroy its power of control. One day the rattle will cease to exist and that is when this country will become healthy again.

      Read, learn and teach. Everyone has something worth value to teach others.

    36. I’ll be real bummed if I can’t keep my Stihl 440 magnum chain saw up and running. The thought of cutting a cord of wood the old fashion way gives me blisters just thinking about it.

    37. skruutch says:

      I’m Ready! I have all seven seasons of MacGyver on VCR and DVD!

      Seriously, unless a complete doom situation occurs, large asteroid, second flood of Noah, we will recover 80 percent almost within months or a few years at most. As long as there is not widespread death, then we will be back up quite quickly.

      It’d be hard to lose the technology of the Founding Fathers. From there, it is a short jump to the tech of the civil war (think steam, telegraph, oil wells (replacing olive and whale oil). In less than three decades from that point, we had the automobile. Two decades later, the radio. another decade, movies, then TV (we could pass on a redo of that!) then the airplane. Two more decades, the atom bomb and the jet.

      To top it all off, we have the scraps of all current civilization to work with – we won’t be working from scratch.

      Will it happen in your location though? That is the question. I expect that a lot of continuity of gov’t types will be really disappointed, as well as a lot of preppers, while many simple people really break out.

      It took about 150 years to go from Mrs. Beeton to Bill Gates. We can do that again in less than a fifth of that time. (not that we should…)

      This is great doom porn though, Ain’t it?

    38. Big E says:

      Ever read the “Fox Fire” 10 book series? Very useful old school tech, how to build log cabin, cooking, trapping game, etc. Check it out ! Also, what pisses me off is al the “corporations” hiding and otherwise suppress technology under protection of patents–This alone should be highly illegal. It’s obvious anytime you try to find something useful on the internet…like search for “build your own generator” or ssomething like that…all I get is a bunch of junk in return …

    39. Big E says:

      It’s exactly why we never got any technology invented by Nikolai Tesla—dam dirty basturd T Edison wanted a system to make perpetual money …instead of truly revolutionary (and free) tech from Tesla

      • Led_Dis_Spencer says:

        “LOVE WILL FIND A WAY”

      • lonelonmum says:

        It’ll be some poor boy out in the sticks after the crash that takes Tesla’s work further for mankind. Right now people like this “disapear” or their creativity is destroyed by the “education” system.

        Genius comes from utter neccessity – what I’ve seen in the 3rd world has convinced me this.

      • The Old Coach says:

        Not true. The AC power grid was Tesla’s, as put into practice by Westinghouse. (Who never paid Tesla, BTW.)

      • JRS says:

        Edison invented an awesome nickle-iron battery that is nearly bulletproof and can be rebuilt. Many telephone substations use these as back up. They would be nice for a solar setup if you can get your hands on them cheap.Hmmmmm…maybe that will be my second stop if the SHTF.

    40. Tomahawk says:

      This is why I’ve made it a point to constantly learn and practice “old ways”. Sure I have modern firearms and good knives and other sharp pointy objects, but I have become an accomplished flint-knapper, I make my own arrows, and I can even use an atlatl. Don’t disregard neolithic skills. Those ways were effective for a longer period in human history than the modern plastic and digital house-of-cards age in which we currently live.

    41. SmokinOkie says:

      No Eggs, No Rabbits. Just An Empty Tomb

      About 1980 years ago, in a back-water section of the Roman empire, a small group of people with no money, no political power, and no social stature, began circulating the rumor of a man who miraculously rose from the dead. Within days, several hundred people, in and around the capitol of the territory, began saying that they had seen this formerly dead man in the flesh, and that he was indeed alive again.
      Many scoffed. The religious elite, who had conspired to trump up charges and have this man, who was guilty of no crimes whatsoever, executed in the most painful and shameful way possible, all denied the claims of him being alive. They had one problem, however. His tomb was EMPTY. They offered bribes to the Roman soldiers who had been guarding the tomb, and had them say that the friends of the dead man must have stolen his body while they slept. The soldiers, who would normally have been executed for sleeping on duty, took the money, along with a promise from the religious elite that they would be protected from any punishment from their superiors.
      Still, the rumor of the dead man who came to life wouldn’t go away. In fact, it continued to grow, spreading out from the capitol to the surrounding areas. And even a few of the elite began to believe and proclaim it, in spite of the fact that saying so meant they would lose any status or prestige in the community.
      Soon, the Roman government, along with the religious leaders began to persecute those who believed the rumor. Punishment was swift and severe for spreading the story.
      And still it grew. Within a generation, the claims of the dead man who came to life had reached all the way to Rome itself. Strangely, the more the rulers punished the believers, the more the belief in this illogical idea grew. Rome pushed harder still, even making public spectacles of the slaughter of those who believed.
      The believers, oddly enough, DID NOT push back against the government. They taught their followers to respect the government, and to suffer and die without calling for revenge against the Romans. They even said that they held no grudge against their tormenters, going so far as to forgive their murderers with their dying breath. You’d think that, before long, this small sect of aparrently crazy people would have faded to obscurity. But it didn’t. It continued to grow…and grow.
      Within another 40 years, the religious rulers of the territory where this all started were themselves the victims of the Romans. Having revolted against the empire, their capitol was destroyed. And the once-magnificent temple of their religion was razed. It is said that even the building blocks were broken, no two left mortared together. The elite were killed or carried into captivity, their followers scattered to the four winds. Their numbers, while never very large, were greatly diminished. A few hundred years later, as a final insult, a new false religion built one of their holiest shrines on the very place where their temple had stood.
      Also within a few huundred years, the mighty Roman Empire itself was no more. The city on seven hills was sacked, and burned. Repeatedly. The empire was gone, swept into the dustbin of history and all but forgotten for a thousand years.
      And what of that small sect of followers who clung to the irrational idea of a dead man who came to life? They just kept growing….and spreading…and eventually turned the world upside down. And all because of an EMPTY TOMB.

      Say what you want to about this belief. Mock, ridicule, or slander the idea and those who hold to it. Most likely, they won’t hate you for it (at least the teachings of the faith tell them not to). But please know this: It makes a difference what you believe. As for me- well, I know lots of people who used to be alive and are now dead. I only know ONE who was dead and is now ALIVE.

    42. THE IMF NWO.CFR ANTI-CHRIST says:

      Everyone Might want too “Pace” Themselves … This Is Only Just The Beginning of The Global Society Paradigm Collapse and FULL Shift of Global Power to the 1% Globalist Bankers … GLOBALIST IMF NWO CFR ZIONIST MARXIST FASCIST Banker Eugenics SOCIAL ENGINEERING!

      If your NEW to Prepping FOCUS ON: Knowledge – clean non-gmo foods, heirloom seeds, local secondary water sources, clean filtered ionized colloidal silver water, air filtration, portable heat, portable electricity production, portable shelter, disease prevention self medication medical care, personal protection weapons, clothing, tools, camouflage, communication and very last – storage of wealth in a physical bartered form!

      keep in mind: if you HAVE IT … some one else WANTS IT! YOU WILL BE YOUR OWN PROTECTOR – SALVATION! PLAN ACCORDINGLY!

      P.S. THE U.N. GLOBALIST AMERIKAN FEDS are NOT YOUR FRIENDS!

      ~NinaO

      • THE IMF NWO.CFR ANTI-CHRIST says:

        The inter-NATIONAL nwo imf u.n. carbon credit TAX DEBT ENSLAVEMENT EUGENICS SITUATION will “resolve itself” ONLY with NATION WIDE state police Brute Force. DO NOT DECEIVE YOURSELF… there will be no other ending for You All!

        If you plan to FIGHT for your very survival – stolen FREEDOMS…

        Now is the time to prepare your weapons, gear and ammo!

        NOW IS THE TIME TO PREPARE TO FIGHT FOR YOUR NATURAL BORN FREEDOMS – NO MATTER WHAT COLOR OR CREED YOU MAY BE – look for others of like minds – FOR WE ARE BROTHERS , THOSE OF US WHO FIGHT FOR INDIVIDUAL SELF GOVERNMENT – FREEDOM!

        ~NinaO

        • THE IMF NWO.CFR ANTI-CHRIST says:

          Rendered Defenseless: International Treaty Could be Devastating to Our Nation’s Right to Bear Arms

          “None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free,” said 18 to 19th century German writer Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.

          (EndTheLie) – Since September 11, 2001, our nation has continued to witness the erosion of our liberty with the passage of the PATRIOT Act, PATRIOT Act II, Military Commission Act, the signing of ACTA and the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 (specifically the indefinite detention provisions) to name a few.

          However, there is a new piece of legislation in the processing stages, which if passed, would mean that instead of firearm owners shooting at silhouettes, they could be the ones staring down the wrong end of the barrel.

          http://dprogram.net/2012/04/07/rendered-defenseless-international-treaty-could-be-devastating-to-our-nations-right-to-bear-arms/#more-106772

    43. Ohcumgache says:

      It takes a thousand voices to tell a single story. – Tribe Unknown

      SmokinOkie,

      Your post is inspirational and profound in the way that you presented it. You are wise and humble.

    44. Bill says:

      Good job Okie. Happy Easter!

    45. Dirty Greek says:

      Hi! As a poster earlier commented, how do we prep for 400 nuclear reactors fucksploding,all within a few days of each other? Ive been prepping for a couple years now but this is something that WILL happen post SHTF,dont know how to prepare for eating,drinking and breathing irradiated stuff.

    46. lonelonmum says:

      Slightly off topic

      How many of us have included protective clothing in our preps?

      Been brought to my attention this morning by an old lady that they do kiddy sized bullet proofed vests here in the UK. (Somalians that have made it to the west intend to survive I’m telling ya!). Shocked me a little as gun laws in the UK are mad restrictive, but thinking about it I can see the necessity of adding these.

      On another note from further up the thread – mental adapabilty, agility & strength are gonna be critical. Learning how to learn is something the public education system has deliberately removed from many of us. Young kids natural curiosity is gradually broken down, until when a kid graduates critical thinking etc is almost entirely missing from the pysche nowadays. We are deliberately taught to be dependant on “the man”.

      None of us really know what our mental breaking point is until sadly we hit it, but we can learn as much as we can about ho to combat stress now. Individual responses to situations are very different and different techniques work for different people.

      Me, I’m cool as cucumber in an acute crisis but not so hot at drawn out beuracratic battles with the “system”. Having to queue for years like the Russians for daily necessities too often would get to me.

    47. kevin says:

      We got to the moon utilizing the slide rule, we can’t even stay up in orbit using autocad.

      • usa nasa apollo moon mission hoax says:

        @kev sorry dude … man never landed on the moon … not physically in body!

        just look at a faked apollo mission moon surface photo… there’s something very important missing from every photo… then look up into your local night sky at midnight and tell me what you see???

        then re-look at nasa’s official moon photo’s … what’s missing … and remember the moon has no atmosphere to block what should be there???

        whats missing @kev???

        hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm???

        ~NinaO

      • VRF says:

        they sold you that lie?

        • usa nasa apollo moon mission hoax says:

          question everything … trust nothing!

          if i can’t physically – see it smell it taste it feel it hear it phuck it kill it!

          it ain’t “real” in my book…

          but thats just me , too each his own.

          and who’s they??? i discovered this on my own… from watching the mars rover videos then looking at the moon landing video’s and photo’s!

          i encourage everyone to do their own research!

          ~NinaO

          • VRF says:

            well than, your not the only one able to discover this for themselfs.

            “they” and you know who they are..sold this BS to the public, only some of us are critical thinkers and able to see things that most people dont even look for. and are also able to see thru the lies. Glad to know im not alone

      • kevin says:

        @ninao- I get all that(stars upon thars), and I wouldn’t put it past “them”. My overall point in that statement is that all this electronic “technology” that is supposedly a leap in the human experience is a farce, and when it fails, it fails 100%!

        • THE IMF NWO.CFR ANTI-CHRIST says:

          yep @kev good point, technology built upon technology, once one fails they all fail… we all go back to living in caves ;0)! living like fred flintstone!

          i wasn’t knockin you @kev. apologies if i came across that way… didn’t mean too.

          peace

          ~NinaO

    48. lonelonmum says:

      More ecnomic news about the decline of the petro dollar peeps should read http://dont-tread-on.me/?p=16057

      Massive oil deals struck with important countries like Saudi/Nigeria and China.

      If you have a timetable for collapse the Chinese oil security deals should have you moving it up a month or two.

    49. Christopher68 says:

      If it would be posible, do you wonderfull people think you could give me a list of the books that would be most helpfull? Please, and thank you

    50. Kelekona says:

      Probably the best we can hope for our form of technology to survive is to have it all written down, dispersed, sealed away for the descendants to find, and keep literacy alive enough so that the manuals are easy to translate. It might require a stodgy religion.

      I’m thinking that we’ll probably slip back to colonial times and only be able to leap into the 1930′s at best once we get back on our feet.

      But preserving knowledge is key. Until they found a vital clue, someone had to use a computer to draw the curve in a roman-age column when the builders had to rely on physical tricks.

      • Archivist says:

        I started collecting books and information about technical subjects (and many other subjects) over 50 years ago. I still have the first piece of paper I collected in 1961.

        I have farming books, cookbooks, woodworking books, books on construction, bridge building, nuclear plant construction, chemistry, medicine, physics, etc. I also have the classics, such as Shakespeare, history books, novels, almanacs, dictionaries, multiple sets of encyclopedias, thousands of books.

        Also I have tens of thousands of books in PDF or other ebook formats (terabytes of files). These will stay untouched in an archive unless and until there is a total collapse. With proper organization, enough paper and working printers can be put together to print out a copy of the most important books for a central library.

        I have a text only backup copy of Wikipedia. I collect all the Project Gutenberg book files. Whenever I find a good website, I copy it. Survivalblog sells CD copies of his website. I have seen thousands of things disappear from online in my nearly 20 years of internet. So I always copy what I see online. I have printed thousands of pages. I was accessing the internet (Gopher, Telnet and Ping) through the Delphi online service before 99% of people knew it existed. I have an archive of every last word that crossed my screen up until graphical interfaces became common with Windows95.

        Save everything you can. Visit farmers, mechanics, and other trades people and craftsmen to see how they do things. You can learn things from anyone. Search for books on Google (out of copyright) that have full downloads available. Download a Wikipedia backup file. The greater the number of people who do these things, the better things will be in the future.

        Some people say that I’ll never have time to read everything I have. I say that someday someone else might need to.

    51. 99 percent of those in developed countries don’t really have off the grid skills to take them to long range planning. Heck, they couldnt even handle 2 weeks of camping without the septic tank, running water, a trailer full of food, and McDonald’s just down the road.

      Using your own brain power and imagination as to what a techno devoid reality will be like and how to plan for it is somewhat presumptuous.

    52. SWIFT says:

      Excellent article. But, I’d like to suggest that we’d be better off without some of these technologies. Back when people had to work much harder for a roof over their heads and food on the table; they had less time to stick their noses in other people’s business. It’s never been a perfect world, but the politics and social engineering make this one a real stinker. My wife and I could get by with a whole lot less because we know how to make things work.

    53. hammerhead says:

      we have advanced our technologies so fast in the last 30 yrs that we can barly keep up with ourselves.
      half of are not even aware of half of the new techs!
      i dont believe we have even relized the power of what we already know!
      to go backwards …………….most cant.

    54. If we have a collapse and 80-90% of the people die. There will be enough resources around for decades.

      Imagine all those alternators in the cars being turned into wind generators. All the car batteries scavenged for battery banks. Yes I know they aren’t deep cycle, but they’ll be good enough. Millions of cars with leaf springs being turned into knives.

      All those empty houses will have bathtubs that can be used for gardens or fish tanks. All those water heaters and piping can be turned into Solar water heaters once stripped.

      There will be barter for food. But people will be stripping houses and buildings for years.

      Sierra Dave

      • BlueH2O says:

        To check food storage safety, check stilltasty (dot) com.

        I have personally used tomato sauce that was 18 months PAST the Best By date, with no off taste or oxidation. I have been told of general canned goods that were stored in a desert warehouse and still edible after over 40 years. Not particularly certain of that last item, but supposedly there are military alive to attest to it.

        • The Old Coach says:

          Heck, I’m eating canned goods I bought in 1999, prior to the Y2K non-event. The only real enemy of canned stuff is rust perforation of the can. There was a time when acidic foods (tomatoes) would leach lead from the soldered seam in the can, but modern cans are deep drawn and have no seam, so even tomatoes are probably OK.

    55. Zoltanne says:

      This article gives more importance to the loss of technology than I would assign to it but on a national level, the loss of technology would create chaos and calamity.

      Should our system collapse and we lose our computerized equipment, it would take our society less time to recreate or redesign replacements than it did to invent the equipment in the first place. In all probability, I think the time involved in retooling would be more problematic than the time spent recreating the technologically advanced machines. But that’s the essence of technology — one machine begets another one.

      Too many people confuse “need” with “want”. And far too many people have slipped into the computerized-grid which we have now seen will slide right into the control-grid. From where I sit, I see that we have created a dependency of too many complex machines. (Didn’t Kaczynski write on this?)

      Personally, I’m more focused on a simpler way of life striving for more self-reliant methods. The machinery we have is helpful but we could continue on without it. When the S hits the F, we won’t be nearly as inconvenienced as those who have a serious dependency on fancy stuff and grid-based machinery.

      • Gunsmith says:

        ~Zoltanne~

        Thumbs up to you!

        Likewise, I see evidence of Ted’s mindset also!!!

      • usa nasa apollo moon mission hoax says:

        true old ways are cleaner better more in tune with the natural environments

        - one in fear of their own peril extinction can’t ignore the obvious

        - technology in it self is a great force equalizer against a larger force

        i.e. such as a awakened rebellious population!

        its simple biological evolution – basic math – adapt or perish!

        seems to be natures motto from the dawn of time!

        ~NinaO

    56. Death N Taxes says:

      wasn’t it Einstein who said (after the successful use of the Atomic bombs against Japan ending WW2):

      The world war after the next world war… will be fought with sticks and stones?

    57. usa nasa apollo moon mission hoax says:

      Ex Obama “gay” Lover author Larry Sinclair Mowed Down By A Hit And Run Driver Yesterday

      Author of “Barack Obama & Larry Sinclair: Cocaine, Sex, Lies & Murder”, Lawrence W. Sinclair has died tonight near his home in a purported car accident. It was apparently a hit and run. Police say the other driver got away and there was no sign of the other driver or his car.

      http://www.fourwinds10.net/siterun_data/health/intentional_death/death/news.php?q=1321723836

      - seems our CIA zionist marxist PUPPET PREZ doesn’t like “books” very much!

      ~NinaO

    58. usa nasa apollo moon mission hoax says:

      The dragon’s new teeth
      A rare look inside the world’s biggest military expansion

      http://www.economist.com/node/21552193

      Note: in order to secure chinese investment into trilions of american debt ameriKa has given china stealth technology , missle technology , nuke technology , aircraft technology! plus the ussa pentagon military buys its spare parts from china! not too forget your fed gov pays ameriKa companies yp move to china and subsidizes them for the moves and loss of revenues.

      anyone else see a problem with this… you’ve been sold out completely as a country by your own elected officials and globalist bankers… YOU and your Kids never even had a chance!

      Kneel and Submit or DIE!!!

      ~NinaO

    59. Frank Thoughts says:

      Technology is an interesting discussion point. We take a lot of it for granted and we also make assumptions about how it makes our lives better. But it is very clear we crossed a threshold some time ago where technology no longer brings advances to human health and the human condition without also destroying human health and the human condition.

      You only have to look at all the pollution that comes with technology and modern life and how that causes cancers etc. The medical advances we are told make all the research and development necessary are also bringing diminishing returns. Much of it is about life extention for people who at one time would have been called freaks. It offers little improvement to the lives of healthy people.

      I see so many seniors living longer but diminished lives. Pumped up on pills, they are alive but not living. The promises of nano-tech are in the main creepy and already in the hands of control freaks seeking to use the technology to make lots of money and not improve lives. Or look at the medical advances of the past 60 years: anti-biotics are now ruined by overuse; drug-resistent TB is on the rise; or vaccines gone wild; for every step forward, the human physiology is damaged and altered. All something to think about!

      • Question Man says:

        You know who wants to live to 100? A man 99. I suggest you apply that to every age you reach, Frank. Those seniors “pumped up on pills” might have a more cheery outlook on what tomorrow brings than you.

        I imagine it’s safe to say that any forum that deals in doom and gloom will have its share of depressed individuals, but I also imagine there are those here who want to advance to an old age, pumped up on pills or not, and see this forum as a positive step in that direction.

        If it’s a short, pill-free, life you desire then I wish you all the luck you need to achieve your goal.

        • Anne says:

          Whoa, horse…”short” and “pill-free” don’t have to go together.

          Do you even know any old folks who are taking 10 different prescriptions? Well, I do, and they are rotting. They are not happy. My mum was one of these old folks.

          We don’t need to live to be a 100. We need to know when it is time to fold. Society as a whole should not be expected to develop and maintain medical systems to keep drugged old androids alive. Or godforsaken youngsters in chronic care hospitals. No wonder we are in such a mess.

    60. kevin says:

      @feds- got another “tip” for yeah. There is a terrorist organization called the “new” black panther party calling for a race war and violance against american citizens, “kill a cracker” day april 9th. You may want to investigate them. It is my belief federal funds are illegally being directed to this group through acorn. If you are reading this right now, you are the cop giving a speeding ticket to a driver 100 yards from a drug deal going down. YOU are the problem with this once great nation.

    61. CommonSense says:

      Good idea for an article but once again, too Euro-centric. Don’t forget folks, while Europe was devolving into its natural barbaric state, civilization was blooming in the Islamic governed countries.
      And as for all the BS of the Pres being Muslim, that is old wives tales. I guess for some he is the perfect scape goat, “black ANd Muslim”.
      If you wish to find a truly illegitimate Pres, go back to daddy Bush, who was born in Germany as George Sherff then brought to America to pose as a true patriot. Let us not forget who signed first true significant gun “assualt-weapons” ban in recent decades, you got it, Bush daddy.

    62. Anonymous says:

      The stock market is down and Au is up! What’s the deal with that?

    63. Lonelonmum
      Re glass canning jars. I am a glass blower and blowing the jar part is fairly easy. It is getting the top to be reliably sealable that is difficult, and besides that needs some form of screw on metal and something like rubber rings to complete the seal properly. That is why paraffin wax was used extensively as a sealant. It was reliable about 70%+ of the time if you had shoulders on the jar. It didn’t stand up to much moving though.

      And yes, I try not to store much electronically. With the computer down all that knowledge is unavailable. Books can easily be destroyed but with care they can last a very long time. Every time my library has a used book sale I go home with one or two boxes oriented to “how to”. Crafts etc. Yard sales too. Especially toward the end of the day they almost pay you to take it away.

      Tom Chatham.
      You didn’t mention there was a historical precedent for that losing of knowledge. Many things readily available before the turn of the millennium (1000 AD) had to be reinvented in the 1500’s after the dark ages. It seems strange but when I was studying cycles there seems to be a super cycle about every 514 years and I am not surprised that mankind is probably entering a new down cycle and probably a new dark age. Total cycle 1028 years from peak to trough to peak again. (or every thousand years.)

      Odd questioner
      I have been buying everything I see on sale that is stainless steel too. I had to pay big bucks for some stainless steel tubing to make a flash pan for my steam generator. I think steam is the way to go to have power as I have lots of wood around.

      Mal Reynolds
      The population people, whatever they are called, are actually worried that if 97% of the population dies off, that humanity will be so scattered that they won’t be able to find each other in order to breed and keep the species alive. 99% almost certainly.

      GrayFoxGreen
      Re sanitation; Not enough people know about composting toilets which kill pathogens and hardly smell at all. Can be used indoors all winter. No little brown shack needed. Even wooden seats get real cool at minus 40.

      I have gone off grid way back in the boonies, more than 10 km from the nearest light bulb. I can say that the learning curve is steep. I have made more stupid mistakes than I care to admit and I am a farm boy. But I have a much better chance of actually surviving than most. I have been buying things like perrenial plants, fruit and nut trees, etc. J W Rawles is good but I think he is a little heavy on opsec and guns, and light on things like gardening. (Not that opsec and guns are not critical, but so is eating.)

      Personally I got ahold of a draft manuscript when Allen Currie was still struggling to learn how to write his Operation Phoenix. It only covers what happens in the first 30 days after the collapse, but it is clear from the speed with which things go down what happens next. I was impressed and began to act.

      He still has the novel as “free to read” on his website http://www.AllenCurrie.ca but I expect that to change to a teaser sample read since he needs to recover some expenses and maybe a dollar an hour for the nearly 20 years he put into it. I think it will give everyone who is concerned about the state of the world today a good deal of food for thought. I know it has been a base for my plans to develop..

      J’Bear

      • Odd Questioner says:

        re: “It seems strange but when I was studying cycles there seems to be a super cycle about every 514 years and I am not surprised that mankind is probably entering a new down cycle and probably a new dark age. Total cycle 1028 years from peak to trough to peak again. (or every thousand years.)”

        Good call. Happens a lot, though knowledge does tend to be saved from age to age, at least in spots.

        I figure this cycle will see enough technology saved to only toss us back to the 19th century or so before the next upswing.

    64. Stormy says:

      In my library, are service manuals,to some of my equipment. as well as basic how-to -do books. Of course the Bible. The younger generation, will be lost, because, several of the basic art, have not been taught. i.e. canning,rope making & knots. How to butcher animals. How about just cooking a meal over an open fire.
      Denial, will be the hardest. Then adjustment. Most preppies, have the right idea. But what is need, is an organization chart. who is in charge of what. What happens, in this or that situation. People need to band together, no only for protection, but the knowledge each has to share. Hard times are coming.

    65. Gene says:

      The article is pretty good, but I am not sure the technology SHOULD be reconstructed. Should society fail the technology and resultant worldview to be some of the most important culprits. Power transportation, electronic communications, “precision” manufacturing etc. are responsible for most of the current diseases, for example. Invention of the light bulb and three shift manufacturing operations resulted in break of normal human living cycle and on and on and on. Let the future generations chose their own way, without the books, even.

     
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