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    How Will You Protect Yourself From Heavily Armed Organized Gangs?

    Mac Slavo
    July 25th, 2011
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (326)
    Read by 3,049 people

    In his article The Strategic Advantages Of Community Building Brandon Smith wrote “community networking is our best available solution in the wake of inevitable economic chaos.” Many of our readers responded in agreement, though there was also discussion of how advertising your survival and preparedness know-how could pose a danger to your family’s health and well being. We won’t disagree with the concept of operational security, especially prior to an economic collapse or TEOTWAWKI scenario. But, there is something to be said for getting to know your neighbors, interacting with them, learning their political and religious leanings, and having non-traditional conversations that center, in one way or another, on personal, neighborhood and community defense.

    When we discuss home or bug-out location defense and the seemingly inevitable attacks that may happen in a post-SHTF world we usually resign ourselves to the idea that we have enough guns, ammo and people in our survival group to stop any incursions on our land. We assume that most of those who would attack, steal and kill us will be stupid gang bangers or idiot criminals.

    The reality, however, is starkly different than our perceptions may allow us to contemplate before it hits the fan.

    The following picture was taken when the leaders of a Mexican drug cartel were recently arrested:

    What you see is an incredible extensive cache of weapons and ammunition housed by members of the Los Zetas drug cartel. If reports are to be believed, there are hundreds of these types of caches in Mexico and the United States. Los Zetas and other cartel or gang organizations like MS13 are highly organized criminal enterprises that deal in everything from gambling to kidnapping to drug smuggling. These groups have not hundreds, but tens of thousands of members in the United States alone. Sure, some of them may be idiots and druggies, but make no mistake. These gangs are organized with intelligent, and often times military like leadership. In fact, the top leadership of the Los Zetas drug cartel were all trained at US military bases and eventually recruited by other Mexican cartels.

    If we do experience and economic collapse, hyperinflation or any scenario that leads to a breakdown in the rule of law in the United States, we can fully expect these gangs to make their way across the country side looting, pillaging and killing any who stand in their way. Like the rest of society, they will be struggling to obtain valuable resources like food and gas. They will be heavily armed, they will be using military tactics, and they will have absolutely no qualms about killing you and your family – not just to acquire your food and supplies – but for fun.

    Realistically speaking, we can assume that they will move in large roving bands, perhaps anywhere from 20 to 200 people. Unless you are hundreds of miles outside of a major population center or completely out of view from the rest of the world, the chances of meeting such a band of organized looters and surviving will not be in your favor.

    It is for this reason that, whether you do it now or after the SHTF, building a strong community, defense plan, guard rotation and engaging in muster exercises will be absolutely critical to your survival.

    If we’re talking about worst case, understand that worst case means contemplating extreme scenarios that will require you and those around you to take lethal, sometimes brutal, measures to defend self and home.

    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post
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    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 3,049 people
    Date: July 25th, 2011
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

     

    326 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. Bug Out! I got some nice neighbors and if taken by surprise we can put up a nice defense and at least make a hoard pay. But if groups of 200 begin roaming for kibble….we are out a here! At least where I’m going I can start in on them at 600 yards.

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      • Odd Questioner says:

        You bring up a good point.

        If it’s 3-5 people, then you have half a chance of holding out and driving them off. If it’s 20-100, a tightly-knit community can drive them off.

        If it’s 200+, you and your entire community will have one hell of a fight on their hands.

        Thing is, I doubt you’ll find huge armed crowds roaming the countryside, for the same reason that you don’t find wolf packs larger than a certain size (something like a couple dozen): Too many people in a crowd will need too much material to keep itself going.

        The larger the crowd, the less organized it becomes, unless there is some sort of charismatic/fear-wielding leader keeping it all tied together. Internal strife and internal theft will become a big problem, as will defections and desertions. Logistics also becomes a problem with larger groups.

        An army can pull it off because the leadership is highly organized, discipline is high, and the army is usually able to feed itself from a defenseless but *productive* population. That last bit is important… in a SHTF/TEOTWAWKI situation, productivity will be close to nil for at least a year or two, and would be fairly low after that.

        Also, this hypothetical gang will be missing a couple of things that an invading army usually does have – a supply chain, and a constant stream of reinforcements. As each town/homestead puts up a fight, that advancing gang will lose members, either to fatality or casualty. Ambushes will be constant along the way (after all, they have weapons and goods themselves, and won’t be able to carry it all if they keep losing members, no?)

        IMHO (and little more besides what’s printed above), such roving gangs will number around a dozen at most. The number is small enough to remain mobile, coherent, and live off the land. Anything bigger will begin to require specialty skills (setting up camp, patrols, carrying the stuff, etc), and would require more professional organization. It would also increase the chances of factions developing, internal strife, and sundry.

        Now a community OTOH, while still tough to run/organize, would still be far easier to do than a nomadic pack of armed thugs. A community is subdivided into families, and they all have common and concrete goals which are not only identifiable, but are complimentary to each other.

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        • Ben Dover says:

          “He who attacks must vanquish. He who defends must merely survive”. –TV series Kung Fu

          These people always resist authority. In the face of resistance these groups will not remaion cohesive.

          Snipers/ambushes along the way sap morale.

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          • Odd Questioner says:

            Corny as it sounds, I like the quote. :)

            I just realized that there’s a historical equivalent to this… the Huns.

            There were two things that made the Huns successful: Attila (plus similar leadership), and a never-ending flow of treasure/plunder. Remove either one, and the whole thing would have fallen apart.

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        • Mr. Blutarsky says:

          These 200+ crowds also won’t be able to get along with each other. They will kill each other in the process of trying to organize.

          I don’t see armed mobilization of that kind for a long time after the shtf, if ever.

          It’s the small, smart, stealth groups you’ve got to worry about. They’ll take you by surprise.

          I pray it never comes to this. Stupid politicians and their elite supporters. They’ll all come out smelling like roses.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

        • Lohkai says:

          I agree, OQ. 200 qualifies as an army and an army marches on its stomach. In an shtf event, IMO, such numbers would be limited to small regions surrounding large metro areas where large-quantity goods and resources might be plundered. And they would be nothing but thugs, most of them lacking in even much self-discipline to begin with (otherwise, they would have amounted to more in the first place). They would not fair well against small but united remote, rural communities where everyone knows the lay of the land and each other and would be fighting for sheer survival with their children sheltering right behind them. Such circumstances trigger a shocking level of viciousness in even the mildest of people, and the thugs would fast realize there were easier pickings in the cities where “sense of community” suffers by nature. In more confused urban envirnments and more accessible near-urban areas this would more likely be possible, perhaps likely. But, these guys would be “down in it” with everybody else (who would be competing as desperately) and probably too fractured as a unit to operate cohesively. They would have little will, reason or energy to march (or waste fuel transporting that many people) a hundred miles or so to prey on (I’m guessing on average) about 300-500 folks in some podunk town who are (by their very smaller numbers, social structure and motivation) better psychologically equipped to work as a unit than they themselves. Could it happen? Well, yeah, have to allow for that. But, I think, if it did, they’d be biting off a heck of a lot more than they expected, whether they could chew it or not. Overall though, the entire endeavor (outside of major metropolitan areas where resources are concentrated) would not be considered cost effective from an analytical perspective, not even for a highly organized outfit.

          Now, if such bands made bee-lines from city to city, simply trolling as they went along, such effort might be more feasible. But, big gangs look for big scores to fill their many mouths. Grab a map and draw lines (direct and logistic) between all the major cities. Make sure you’re little spot isn’t without 50 miles of a line. If it’s not, you’re probably good to go because you’re probably not worth their effort. Just my thinking.

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          • Stormin says:

            Gangs are organized crime im very positive theyll be organized when theres no laws to restrict them of their activities, mexico is a great example the gangs own mexico and continue to grow even with a government at control.

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          • Odd Questioner says:

            @Stormin:

            Yes and no.

            The reason why gangs and other organized crime groups manage their size is twofold:

            1) There’s a constant promise of money and power

            2) There is a functioning society taking care of their basic needs, and the crime in question isn’t a question of survival, but of ‘getting ahead’. They’re not stealing food, shelter, or warmth… they’re selling illicit drugs with the promise of massive wealth.

            If you take those away (A SHTF/TEOTWAWKI situation will do just that), then there’s no reason to hang around in numbers that big.

            I suppose you could make the argument that such a group would hang around to make gathering resources easier, but the problem remains that such a group is unwieldy for travel (logistics, lack of sufficient resources, reluctance due to family being left behind, disagreement over targets, etc), and you can only raid the locality for so long before the raid-ees either give out, die off, or leave town themselves.

            You see, travel requires more resources than staying put. This is because you have to spend more time and resources hauling your stuff, more time and energy moving constantly and keeping watch, and overall, more of everything to keep supplied.

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        • I would hate to be part of the gang as I believe it wouldn’t take many citizens to be armed and vastly outnumber them. I guess here I would become friends with the police or Ellis Air Force Base and try to help them out. Anyway what nonsense to even think much about it as if it gets that bad it will be like the Great Depression times and there will be many many government interventions to solve the problem a little. The rich never want it so bad they become insecure too.

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        • onetonbrain says:

          Just look at history.
          Armies march across huge distances and lay waste to all who oppose them. Nothing new here.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

          • Odd Questioner says:

            Indeed, look at history: Armies are highly organized and disciplined. Gangs and mobs are not (which is why they tend to dissipate pretty quickly).

            You read about the armies that managed to march across the land, because history rarely records the ones that weren’t disciplined, organized, and sufficiently motivated.

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      • Freeport56 says:

        Yeah, reach out and touch someone!

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      • Clark K says:

        Tim G. are you out there/here, yes it’s me Clark K. from Biloxi. Are you still alive,in good health? I’m leaving the county in 3months.
        Tim do you remember the road trips?
        I will ck bck in 2 this site t c if U post.
        42-10 out

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        • Clark K says:

          Tim G. this is Clark K. from Biloxi, remember the road trips? If you are still alive and come across this post, Question… do you remember the hotel you called 4years ago? I’m staying in the same location again ,ask for Richard….Im leaving THE COUNTRY IN a couple of months.
          Post or call.

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          • Clark K says:

            Hey (please)are there any Vet’s on here that can help me pass the word, Tim G was in the 101 67-69.
            If anyone on this site or similar can pass the MSG along Clark K is looking/calling…. thanks

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      • Dave says:

        Most of my neighbors are attorney weenies who probably don’t even own a gun (maybe a 9mm handgun which is useless in street combat) so I’m not banking on support from them.
        I have a warning to all of you preppers, your unprepared neighbors may be your biggest enemies if they know you have food & water supplies.

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        • laura m. says:

          Dave you are so right; I tell no one what I’m doing. Several families I know in my area are preppers and like minded. Lohkai I agree, cities will have stuff these bands will try to get to. These bands will break up into smaller groups to survive.

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        • Ava says:

          Yes, I know, I’ve been studying up on this. Mostly I’m surrounded by
          civilian liberal cry babies, including my husband who thinks I should quit reading “all that republican propaganda”. He has no idea what is brewing, the coming food riots, and rioting in general, roving gangs, no electricity, no water blah blah. Thank God we live within walking distance to a big military base, and alot of our neighbors are military. Right on Laura. And one shot one mess.

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      • SilentSoul says:

        I know this much… They probably don’t have Kevlar Face Wraps. .308 will penetrate if they do. They won’t even hear or see it coming. I as well have a dialed up dope for 600 yards plus. Plan is to hit the National Forests, as I know them by heart and can land nav via compass to my honey holes, in day or pitch black. LBV’s are loaded with mags, first aid, and canteens. Alice pack is on frame with all the goodies a man and his family could need for a while inside of it. I hope you boys and girls like Feral Hog. There’s plenty of it to eat out there. We’ve got a pretty good sized standing army of Deer and Hog Hunters in my neck of the woods so we aren’t really too worried about it. The big dogs (AR50′S) will let loose the hounds of hell and quickly repel enemy assault or at least make them think twice about advancing. Those vatos wouldn’t know what hit them. All the best from the land of Hogs. Semper Fi.

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      • Just as the indians were destroyed, they will be destroyed as well.

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        • Bloodyfellow says:

          K: Just as the indians were destroyed, they will be destroyed as well.

          You lost me… would you pleas explain what you mean a bit more regarding your above statement. Are you referring to Indians being wiped out to …the Cartel’s being wiped out???

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      • JWCullen says:

        The Odds Out Observer
        We live in a rural area where the population is about 3
        people per square mile. In this area there is no common community spirit of politics or safety. Many people here have not locked a house, barn, outbuilding or taken the keys out of their cars for 40 years.
        Personal safety, household safety and county wide safety is not on their discussion horizon.
        We moved into this area from the outside. Our five acres has a series of chain link fence along the property line that is the county road. Our house hold, shop building and weather bunker structure are all completely or partially enclosed with chain link fencing. We are the only rural homestead in the area with this kind of security. A group of fatherapers well armed could ravish many rural homes, set up road blocks and create hell on earth before anyone whould have the time to organize and do something.
        Our county is approximately 30X40 miles in size and mainly rangeland with a very small amount of cropland.
        Our county sheriff is aware of the potential for our county to be victimized by a group of fatheraperes. We had several discussion about this and what would be needed as a response.
        There is a core of people who would respond to creating a local militia group for defense.
        It would only happen after the fact that a significant destructive event has taken place affecting property and taken lives.
        To talk this up now would aleinate us, cause local people to distance themselves and isolate us socially.
        It is for the most part a county of sheeple. Older sheeple who do not have any idea of what is going on in reality. Most of them are still thinking about 1950 to 1960ish and are practicioners of NIMBY: not in my back yard. Gun ownership here is high. But many have only popguns such as single or double barreled shotguns, 22′s and near junk level cheap 38′s.
        But given a legitimate threat this county can and will meet this kind of theat with a fury that will reflect a take no prisoners mentality.
        We are more than 100 miles from a major urban area in any direction. There is a 2500 inmate strong prison filled with all California mostly Spanish speaking prisoners within 22 miles.
        I am 70, infantry and armour trained. A rifleman and hunter. I will not go quietly nor meekly.
        We maintain a high level of personal security at our abode by having loaded weapons secured in the house, locking gates at night and never leaving the house without a pistol and shotgun/rifle in the vehicle.
        I always carry out the door in the morning a 22mag rifle when I go out to feed the dog, water the garden and open the front gate and get the mail.
        This concept of getting the community behind you under the current times is a farce. Most of the people in these rural communities are too involved in day to day gossip, the church, school atheletics, 4H, boyscouts, working to put food on the table and just living.
        The kind of organization for community defense is not even on their event horizon…..yet.
        They are self isolated physically. Not well educated in the ideologies of the elites/Agenda 21. And see the world through rose colored glasses for the most apart.
        The are victims waiting to be harvested by human parasites.
        JWC
        OKLAHOMA

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        • Janet says:

          I wish you were my neighbor.

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        • Ava says:

          Stop it! You’re scaring me! Sorta. I have a plan, and 40 ac. way up in northern #@*&%$.. most of our neighbors are good decent folks young and/or retired, looking for a place to hide when things go SHTF. However, there is a problem: a local rancher got pissed about some loose watch dogs, so he shot a couple. More SHTF. Small stuff I guess. Then, our gang of one or two people per 40 ac. plus, had to hire security because isolated homes and RVs were being vandalized. Two Mexican nationals were stopped, and they were “loaded for bear” per the security folks. When asked what were they doing wandering around this area, they got mouthy and hostile, stating “who are you to ask us questions?”. Security told them they were on private property, and that they needed vacate asap or the sheriff would be notified. So they fled the scene.
          One of my closet neighbors are retired law enforcement, and he has been prepping for years. He has 2 huge Quonset huts, one is for the farms animals. Since I am a nurse, we decided he could give me lessons in weapons, and I could trade off with rendering medical care, as they are diabetic, overweight and riddled with approximently 8 to 10 million of those itty bitty critters that cause allergies. I have CRS, terminal. Greydog, and BJ, really? Do y’all think it’ll be that bad? This is beginning to sound like “Red Dawn”, it’s frightening. I don’t think our own homegrown militia would fire on his fellow Americas, right? Those forighners would. All I want is for someone, ANY ONE, to stand up to the evil in the WH! McChystal was right. And so was that “YOU LIE” screamer.

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        • 1JeffT says:

          I’m gonna second what your saying for the most part. This area /small town, rural, about 100mi. from the closest big city, under 15mi. off a major interstate highway, lot’s of old timers that arn’t seaming to show even a tiny stir of concern around town about any such topic either. And sadly there’s another dozen or more small towns just like this one, same general apathy, within this county and the one east. Wouldn’t really matter which direction you go though. I’ve been in many of the communities around here, and there mostly all still say’n baaaah baaaaah.

          BONUS! There is pretty high gun ownership and I’m proud to say I know at least a fare few who have some hi cap stuff. I’d have to also kinda agree, once you do actually wake the wooly ol’ rascals up, you’re gone have stirred up a seriously nasty honet’s nest in a community full of good varmint shooters and plenty of real serious deer & Elk hunters. Most around here know all the roads and countryside, and lots and lots of them are folks who’s grandparents went to high school together. So there’s probably a fair degree of underlying unity that would happen pretty damn quick.

          My only serious fear is if it’s somehow actually possible that not very many have ever even given at least some “passing thought” to a SHTF kind of event. Even if they’re still a little shy to talk about it down at the cafe, I’m pretty sure far more do than don’t, have that “uneasiness” that we ALL know so many are feeling lately. It’s pretty tough to try even gently to educate anybody though…THAT’S for sure. It’s just sad that people are literally…even now, to programmed into there “daily survival mode”. In a way it reminds me of trying to speak sense into a droid. Like in SiFi movies.

          Today’s attention span in most adults seems more like what a 14yr. old would have had 50yrs ago. I kinda “quit TV”, years ago and I swear people who watch TV all the time tend to have way shorter attention spans. Serious! They’re also so used to AVOIDING at all cost any “critical thinking” beyond what they absolutely HAVE to do to earn some money, that it’s like you’re waking them up at 6am on the fist day in 3mo. they’ve had to sleep in, just by trying to get them to have a half serious conversation on one topic for more than 5min., ten tops. Then they just want to….well, they just want to change the channel.
          ~Oregon~

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        • Wolf says:

          JWC,

          I like you. I enjoyed what you wrote. I wish more humans were like you.

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      • Eric says:

        This was an interesting read and frankly I never thought of the gangs as a problem, but this article does make some sense, if you live in a large city. While I don’t believe that you will have this a problem everywhere, you might find smaller “mobs” of people that might be a problem. What makes gangs a formidable opponent is there cohesion, there ability to stick together when the “shooting” starts. They have fought and bleed together for years, like warriors they develop a bond and this is the worrisome part. This is the part that makes them a tough opponent. The “mobs” will disband when the going gets tough and the bullets start flying. If I see a group of 100-150-people coming down our street, I’m hightailing it, somewhere other than where I’m at. Better to flee and fight another day, than stay and be slaughtered.

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    2. they have a name Mac, they are called LEO’s, Government agencies and U.S. military

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      • greydog says:

        You forgot the modern Militia. They will be the ones taking over small towns ,and god knows what else.

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        • Where I am at, the only thing the militia will attempt to take over is the ill gotten control from the unconstitutional idiots in uniform that will be murdering, raping and stealing from the people

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          • Anonymous says:

            Who was it that killed 90 people this week? Women, kids all shot down or blowing up. Oh yes don’t forget Oklahoma, all tied to the nut jobs in the militia. I bet 90% of the militia are jail birds or have mental disorder.

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          • greydog says:

            Who was it that killed 90 people this week? Women, kids all shot down or blowing up. Oh yes don’t forget Oklahoma, all tied to the nut jobs in the militia. I bet 90% of the militia are jail birds or have mental disorder.

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          • your comparing Oslo Norway to people I know here in Michigan USA….ok that makes sense……you were a cop weren’t you….it shows

            The oklahoma bombing being tied to all militias is not only old but incorrect. Turn off the tv news, your brain is fired and washed

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          • Actually, the Oklahoma City bombing had Iraqi involvement. Please see Jayna Davis’ book “The Third Terrorist.”

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        • Odd Questioner says:

          As a guy who lived among Militiamen, I actually have no problem with ‘em at all, and would love to see more of them form groups. The ones I knew (in Arkansas, 1990s) were *very* community-minded, and would provide an excellent local defense force.

          They were quite law-abiding, and were not some pack of nutcases as portrayed by the media.

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          • Thanks….that’s the way the West Michigan Volunteer Militia is too…..they have a website. They just got done helping in a search and rescue for a little missing girl that an Amber Alert was out for….but to no avail :-(

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          • Greydog says:

            Pease don’t tell me how great the militia is. I have worked and hung around people in the militia. Most of them would run at the first shot fired at them, and yes I have been shot at more than one time. Very few have any training of any kind. Check your history and you will find the militia was never very well thought of. Most militia members have a criminal record some for rape, murder and other felonies. So don’t tell me they preach the good word up and down the street. I know better. Washington and Green once said you cannot depend on the militia and most of the troops in that time did not care for the militia either. I wonder why?

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          • Odd Questioner says:

            Wow – I’d love to see proof of your assertions.

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          • I’d take ex felon militia members any day over today’s cop

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      • Ben Dover says:

        Highly likely

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    3. Fatty says:

      Not to frett ladies and gentleman, the state of Pa. has more registered hunters alone than most countries military participation. They would not make it pillaging through Tx.

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      • Hey Fatty! You got that right. Does anyone realize that out here, ouside of the city, most everyone has at least a couple guns. At least a shotgun and a couple rifles.

        Where will the gangs go? They’ll go where the picking is easy. Where there is lots of stuff. Out here in rural America, we’re too well armed and too spread out. …and we know each other and will watch each other’s back.

        Good way to get your head blowed off: Wander around rural America and look like a group of thugs looking for something to steal. The only thing you’ll be collecting from my Neighbors and I is a bunch of copper and lead.

        Of course once they rape the cities, they’ll start looking to the country. Once they get out here, they’ll get thinned out pretty quick. So many rednecks will just absolutely think its a blast to blow these bastards away.

        …and, like greydog says, there is the militia! They’ll be the last stand of civilization we can depend on. Greydog, you’ll WANT the militias to come in. They are just about all that is left of America. Your best bet will be to join one.

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        • Freeport56 says:

          They will stay in the cities for a while killing off each other while scavenging for food and wreaking chaos. There will b e time to prepare for their eventual arrival.

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        • MIVidaLoca says:

          In California, you are very unlikely to get a conceal carry permit unless you live in a rural county, such as Placer or El Dorado, although the new sheriff in Sacramento County is talking like he will make it easier.

          The Legislature is trying very hard to make it almost impossible to own guns. They want to get rid of open carry laws on the books and make it very very hard to get a conceal carry permit.

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          • freeport56 says:

            In CA the legislature has no real idea how well armed a good portion of the citizens are and I don’t mean the criminals!

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          • The Moon is a Harsh Mistress says:

            If a law is bullshit then just don’t follow it. I live in the People’s Republik of Kalifornia and I don’t let the actions of a bunch of petty thugs in Sacramento determine which weapons I purchase or how I carry them. Sometimes you just have to be a little creative in aquisition. When you follow the illigitimite laws that some nanny-stater imposes you just give them that much more power over you.

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          • Loki says:

            I am leaving California soon

            I live too close to Mexico, in fact the city I live in might as well be Mexico.

            Chicken Shit Sheriff refuses to allow CCW’s

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        • NetRanger,
          I totally agree with you about the rednecks having fun blowing these thugs away. It’ll be better than hog hunting at night and deer hunting in the fall. I’m just kidding a little. If I didn’t have family around it truly would be fun outwitting the thugs, but with kids and women around to protect it will be a horrible nightmare.

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          • Lohkai says:

            You think the women won’t be right beside you, blasting away? Put her kids behind her, and she’ll kill anything that threatens them without a thought, including you (she might cry about it later, but that would be later).

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          • MailOrderZombie says:

            Wow, because us poor lil’ ol’ womenfolks will just be standing around screaming and making targets of ourselves…? If that’s what you’re going to have to deal with I feel for you, but I for one can hold my own as well as (and likely better) than any man I know. It could very well be the other way around depending on the individuals. With children? Now that’s a nightmare!

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          • freeform says:

            A much needed reality check… if anyone thinks killing your fellow man, under any circumstances, is or would be fun, you’d better check yourself. Principled men of honor and decency don’t take pleasure in having to murder their own kind. Deep down I know most understand this, but I wretch when I read comments about the thrill of barbarism and mayhem. Yes, we should all be ready to defend ourselves and our families with ferocious and unflinching firepower, but beware of anyone who looks forward to it.

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          • 1JeffT says:

            I really have to strongly second what freeform says. Anyone who looks forward to killing their own kind and would even begin to think of it as fun is someone to beware of. True warriors understand honor and humility before their creator and do what they are called to, but take no joy in it.

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        • Militias…as Dr. Edwin Vieira preaches…they are NOT only legal to every state, the constitution MANDATES every state to have them…something about protection against foreign AND ‘domestic’ violence and aggression??
          Hmmm..sound familiar??

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          • REB says:

            …and Dr Ed knows the constitution! Oh and about the “militia”…the second ammendment says something about a well regulated militia being nessessary… and so on it would seem unlikely the founders were much against militias per sae,probably just against rabble posing as a militia.
            As I have said here before,I used to run a surplus and survival business,sold lots of goodies to lots of groups who were often refered to as militias…..a few were kooks and blowhards…most were gentlemen and women who simply feared to be caught unprepared for what they saw coming(hmmm,now who is it they remind me of).
            The word militia has been blacklisted and slandered for years by the “commie” left and right in this country…one reason is to cause people to recoil against the idea of armed resistence to this govt…make people think anyone connected to a militia is like some of the nuts you hear about in the mideast or africa who ride the roads killing robbing and raping…sure there will be some of those but theyre not going to be the norm and what would we do to stop these bad apples if we didnt have a good “well regulate militia” to counter them.
            The militia is Us,We the people,the constituion and tradition before that under the confederation and even back into the colonies reguired every able bodied man(between 16 and 64,roughly) to be in the militia,we should have militias as per the law and yes even “militia type” groups in local areas who can respond and take up the slack till the constitutional one can respond…key word here is constitutional…that would be the real reason for the liberals hysteria when it comes to militias now wouldnt it? just sayin’

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        • can we then pick over the bodies to sell the copper and lead scrap?

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          • MailOrderZombie says:

            Only if you have rubber gloves- remember, AIDS and the other gore-borne diseases don’t go away just cuz tshtf.

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          • anon says:

            Don’t forget pliers for dental gold.

            Corpse handling is not a good job, especially in warm weather without heavy equipment to dig holes/trenches. This won’t be “orderly” disposal like a FEMA camp, this will include bodies boobie trapped with bombs and set out on a known range to pick off workers attempting to clean up or give proper burial. There won’t be body bags or tarps in quantity where needed, so handling a 4 day old kill will be “juicy” and disgustingly infectious. Leaving bodies out means feeding feral dogs and giving big cats/bears/hogs a taste for human flesh: more trouble later. Count on high-level sucking. Most Americans don’t even have gold crowns…..

            Can we delay this a few more years?

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        • Greydog says:

          A large armed group of untrained people, what could go wrong? Sooner or later someone will go on a power trip and game on. I just don’t trust those types of groups. I have a select few who I would trust my life too, and none are in the militia. And for the record, I don’t trust all cops either. We have lowered the bar way to much to fill our ranks. There was once a time when a cop messed up it was over a women or drinking to much. Now it can be just about anything including murder and rape. Sad times.

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          • Odd Questioner says:

            “A large armed group of untrained people, what could go wrong?”

            The ones I knew did train – both in martial tactics and in civil ones (e.g. search and rescue, first aid, etc). Most of them are veterans or have had military experience.

            “Sooner or later someone will go on a power trip and game on.”

            You have no idea how one works, do you? Most have very specific rules and structures to prevent any one person from getting stupid with leadership. Maybe you should but down the CNN archived editorials for a bit, and actually look into one.

            You are perfectly free to not trust any of them. Personally, I’d only really trust one based in my own community, since their interests and mine would dovetail perfectly.

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      • Ben Dover says:

        If the intended victims feel unconstrained in their resistance, these groups will not have so easy as they do at present.

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        • Ben, you know, thats something I never thought of! Currently you can’t fight these guys because if you do, the gang of 536 will come down on you too for defending yourself. If TSHTF, the influence of the gang of 536 will be minimal.

          I concur with your analysis.

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          • Hammerun says:

            If you are going in after an entrenched defender you “must” to out number his forces 5 to 1 to get him out. I doubt a lot of armed gangs understand this conception.

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          • But, even so, 5:1 numbers will still incur losses. Are armed groups willing to take losses? How will one of them react when their best friend falls? I don’t think these “roving gangs” will have the psychological preparedness to deal with this. I think it will unnerve and rattle them, thus, sealing their fate. Oh, I’m sure some of them can handle it but there just are too few of them to be much of a danger. Besides, I think this is mostly a pumped up image in the imagination fed and inflated by the TV culture.

            Too many movies and not enough thinking.

            Certainly, there will be problems around the major cites. But, what is a major city? I would put that as a city with a metro area of more than 500,000. I’m 60 miles from anything like that. They’ve got a lot of rural area to get through before they get to my area.

            Most of this is fantasy, pure and simple.

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          • Odd Questioner says:

            It gets even stranger if you think about it.

            Any kind of siege will only burn off the very things that such a gang is looking to take: ammunition, food, etc. The longer it lasts, the less of it there will be if the attackers win.

            And yeah – the advantage usually goes to those who know the land, have defenses, etc. Anyone kid who had played Team Fortress and the like for more than five minutes knows this.

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    4. Bill S says:

      I think bands like that will only be found in large cities. In rural areas I don’t think that bands that large are practical. You have to be able to find enough food for everyone. My stepson and I have shotguns. If someone was firing at one of the condo units where we live we’d take them out from the back or side if we could.

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    5. RafterManFMJ says:

      Be sure not to be noticed.

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    6. Sam says:

      I love the rotating ad that pops up with this story.. “find a Mexican wife” LOL !!! What makes it so funny to me is that I spend a lot of time in Mexico and all my buddies there ( as well as their wives / girlfriends ) are always trying to get me married off. They all know I am married; but their response is ” you’re not married in Mexico “. One of my good friends there actually has 2 wives and 2 separate families. They both know about the other and there is no problem. Once lives on the North side of town and the other on the South side of town. He always looks so tired… :)

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    7. Beefcake says:

      This did cross my mind awhile back and I was pondering opsec when it came to running generators, fires, cooking food, etc. etc. Even if you are out in the boonies some of these things will lead a roving gang or Golden Horde right your way. My only hope is that these gangs would be thinned out in the first couple of years through attrition. But in the event you find yourself outmanned and outgunned, run! GTFO and bug out (you should already have an E&E plan and emergency caches set up in place before SHTF).

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      • Odd Questioner says:

        The biggest trick is two-fold:

        * find quiet(er) ways to generate power/heat/etc (solar panels, a chimney and wood stove, a hot fire with low smoke, etc).

        * if you plan to go it alone, either live far enough away from civilization to make getting there on foot a danger to life or limb, or live close enough to a good small town to get some help with defense.

        Neither is a guarantee, but it’s like the old joke about two guys outrunning a bear… one shouts to the other “I don’t think we can outrun him!”, and the other shouts back “I don’t have to outrun him, I just have to outrun you!”

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        • rufus13 says:

          Folks can get along without electricity, and most WILL get along without it. It’s a luxury worth having a small amount of for comm, small lighting, alarms/security and charging batteries for high-tech force multipliers like NV. Solar PV in quantity to charge battery banks at at least a 1/20th rate (per hour, so you get about 4/20ths charge per day) should be enough with severe conservation, and a generator run every couple weeks or if the batteries get to 50%. Battery charging will become a business if the grid stays down. Regular RV deep cycle batteries will start losing capacity the way most people use them in the 2nd or 3rd year. Expensive Gel with careful charging can go 10 years to 90% power capacity (over 1000 50% discharges), so at some point there won’t be deep cycle batteries (“house” batteries) to use when the sun doesn’t shine and useful charged “starting” batteries for equipment will also be scarce. How do you start a Diesel tractor without a battery (assuming fuel)? With an auxiliary gasoline engine with a pull/kick-starter.

          Heat you will need in Northern or Mountain winter. Build small, and efficient, or limit the heated area of a house to a small warming survivable area. Passive solar is nice, but it usually presumes a peaceful or secure setting with lots of exposed panes of glass. What is local best fuel? Wood or coal, backed up with a 1000 gallons of secured propane, will get through a few winters. Efficiency is important as well as low absolute quantity of fuel because you may be hauling it by hand. Look up “rocketstove” to cut wood consumption by 2/3rds: high initial investment with very efficient and low-fuss heat extraction. Rocket Stoves also have very-low smoke and pretty low exit temperatures for exhaust. If your neighbor needs 6 cords of wood every winter to keep warm and you need 1 or 2, you have surplus time/labor or a 3+ years of wood stacked where he has one. You need fewer/smaller wood seasoning buildings and can help install rocketstoves in neighbors houses with the surplus time.

          People can’t “go it alone”. A man with a pack is “a refugee” or dead pretty-soon unless he hooks-up with a group (best pre-arranged, lest it be on bad terms or at a FEMA camp). Very few will “survive” as a wilderness men, and those who do are toothless and hungry in years 3-10. Small working agriculture town off of the Rawlesan Lines of Refugee Drift in a County with a good Sheriff is a good bet. Sure thing is unavailable.

          People have to sleep to live, so you need other people to keep watch. Minimum group size is about 2 extended families, around 20 individuals. I’d prefer 4 families and group size of ~50. This is about 30 useful adults, with children and old folks and some less-useful (physically or mentally impaired) adults. There should be an assortment of skills among the adults, or the ability to get some skills before TSHTF.

          TIME is the most important thing to get managed among the group members. Wasted time hurts the group, television being the biggest waster of time as well as promoting passivity, brain filled with collectivist lies, and short-term attention span/memory failure. It’s amazing how productive people can be without television, with improved telephone/texting habits, and without chronic shopping as entertainment.

          All of this productivity should be held behind a screen of simulated “ignant” poverty OpSec. Nothing to see here, we is just Tee-Bee watchin’ fools like ya’all, broke and bills outstanding. “Have you got HALO3 yet? Did you hear that FoodBiggie outside the county seat is taking Federal Food Ration cards now? My cousin who’s livin’ out back got herself pregnant by somebody, and is gonna keep it. Can you believe it? Can we carpool with you over there, my trucks’ empty? Talk to ya later.”

          Cheers.

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    8. anonymous says:

      TMI Sam.

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    9. Bloodyfellow says:

      We can think the ATF for this photo …as they are the SOB ~ who funded, as well as helped to arm these gangs.

      These highly motivated well armed gangs are going to head strait for the cities first. Easy pickings for well armed gangs of hard core killers. Farms not far off the highways are going to get overrun and looted as well. Lots of farmers store fuel… diesel, kerosene & gasoline. You have a farm with easy access from the road and you raise Cattle, goats, hogs, chickens etc… things get real bad and people get real hungry they are going to eat. They may have to kill you first but they are going to eat. You better have a plan or you are truly screwed!!!.

      Lots of people are going to get taken out …just cause they are going to make it way to easy.

      If you want to improve your chances of surviving SHTF. Dig in for the long haul and prep, prep, prep & prep some more. If you are part of a well armed and trained militia that can take care of your groups AO you all stand a good chance of making it through the worst of times. One family don’t stand much of a chance if a larger group really wants to take you out.

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      • VRF says:

        Yep, I agree

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      • Cyber_Samurai says:

        If you think you might need to bug out, plot your course ahead of time, and stash hidden (buried, etc.) caches of food, ammo, even weapons if you think you need it, along the route to wherever you’re going. Does someone else own the land? If he don’t know, it don’t matter. Or hide it somewhere public if you must, but stash your cache where you can get to it as you travel.

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      • Ben Dover says:

        Such a gang will also be their own worst enemy. If their wads of paper money sre worthless, they have no support structure and would have more than a little trouble with infighting. Who is going to provide logistical support?

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    10. Jack says:

      Honestly, what can any community do to protect themselves from an organized “band” of 200 armed raiders? Probably not much.

      20? Ok. Now we’re talking. I could probably hold that many off with the number of shooters and guns in my household.

      At some point, the odds are too overwhelming…even if my neighbors and I banded together, we probably couldn’t hold off an army of 200. I live in the country and I know many of my neighbors are armed as I am, but still…

      In the old days, you circled the wagons. Built a fort. It isn’t just a case of numbers against numbers. You need a defendable position.

      Just rambling.

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      • You and a few neighbors no, of course not. Your only chance would be to be vigilant enough to know they are coming and bug out ahead of them – even if its on foot as they prepare to enter your front door.

        I grew up in a “town” of 5,000 to 7,000. I’m pretty darn sure those folks could muster up a militia to repel 200 in a hoard that are probably not well organized.

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      • Cyber_Samurai says:

        Three words:

        HOMEMADE

        CLAYMORE

        MINES

        Just sayin’.

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        • SmokinOkie says:

          Say that slow. Like: REAL…COMFORTABLE…JEANS

          Homemade…Claymore…Mines
          It’s kinda got a nice feel to it!

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        • Bloodyfellow says:

          Do any of you dudes have the slightest idea how to build a CLAYMORE??? I have a detailed books on it …could point you in the right direction in you are serious. ATF comes knocking on your door you don’t fu*king know me. You can have the knowledge you just can’t build it. So they tell me!!!

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          • Bloodyfellow says:

            That came out wrong…fuck!

            Do any of you dudes have the slightest idea how to build a CLAYMORE??? I have detailed books on it …could point you in the right direction if you are serious. ATF comes knocking on your door you don’t fu*king know me. You can have the knowledge you just can’t build it. So they tell me!!!

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        • UNKNOWN says:

          any instructions on that?

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        • I don’t google, but am ‘Ixquicking’ it right now!!!

          What’s that black SUV doing in my drive??

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      • Bill says:

        I agree…short of baiting a group that large into an ambush, you’d be in trouble.

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      • Lohkai says:

        Most small towns have town squares or halls where their events already take place that could likely be easily fortified. And I’ve seen a seven-year-old take down a deer with an atlatl. An adult can hurl a five-foot dart at 100 mph for about 300 yards with one. If you’ve got trees, you have a backup arsenal at your disposal. May not be macho or glamorous, but it’s cheap (free), readily available, easy to use and will take out a woolly mammoth. It’s also quiet. Hey, desperate times call for desperate measures. If nothing else, a hail of a hundred or so pencil-thin five-foot spears raining out of the sky must have a serious psychological impact, not to mention a painful one. A catapult is also fairly easy to build… for hurling ethanol bombs or such. The knowledge and resourcefulness of any community is the key.
        There are many tools in the world, but the only true weapon you will ever face will lie behind your enemy’s eyes.

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    11. PO'dpatriot says:

      Gonna do my best with what I got and make those come against me pay in blood. If’n I don’t make it, I’m sure I’ll catch up to you on the other side. Sic Semper Tyrannis!

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      • Not to mention when they get passed me and on to you they’ll be down one leader and 19 other losers!

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      • Odd Questioner says:

        That’s the thing… the group thins out just that much more with each firefight. By the time they get out to where I intend to be (way out in BFE), the elements will likely kill the rest off.

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    12. European American says:

      As I recall, aren’t Mexico’s gun ownership laws rather stringent? Small caliber allowed, I think. Like .380. Not the kind of weapon to take on a cartel, or any gang for that matter.

      Whereas in America, it’s a just a little bit different.

      Along with some growing resentment for a variety of reasons, I wouldn’t want to be driving in neighborhoods of America (other than L.A.) in a convoy of low riding, black SUVs with the ultra shinny rims and “la cookaracha” music spewing out the windows, even if I was toting some fully auto’s, and even if there was a total collapse (whatever that implies). That would be a suicide mission, to say the least. for the occupants. Especially in the Fall when it’s hunting season and the red necks are pissed off that there’s no more deer to be had.

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    13. Just me says:

      I’m just counting on the criminal element to be so stupid that they’ll starve before they get out of the citys, the shut down will not happen overnight so maybe by the time they wake up, they’ll be to hungry and weak to go very far. Now dealing with rogue cops will be a different story, everyone will have to deal with them in their own way, all I will say is this,If there is an economic collapse and law of the land has broken down,”if you haven’t been to my place in the past week, do not come now,as I’m an old man and a veteran who would not take prisoners or be running a food charity bank.

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    14. Paul Revere says:

      I say help the criminals. Here’s how. Compile a list and addresses of all your local bankers, politicians, and power elites and distribute/publish these in the local rag when SHTF. Then the criminals can hit those who have the most………. and deserve to be vicitimized the most. It’s a win/win for the criminals and the working man.

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      • Durango Kidd says:

        I like it Paul, make sure they have the names, photos, and addresses of the power elite in LSM, DC, and on Wall Street. That litte dossier could even show their net worth, to make sure they don’t miss the “whales”.

        Hope they get all of the Globalists, Free Traders, and Free Market advocates while they are at it.

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        • Man…this could make a few dems and liberals true believers in the Tea Party and the Constitution.!!!

          “Okay, is this a joke? Who put directions to my house on the net?? Wait, how did they know my schedule, my wife’s gym address and my kid’s school??”

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      • Odd Questioner says:

        Even better… go into the city, ostensibly to barter, and ‘accidentally’ ‘drop’ a ‘map’ to a given banker/politician’s location. Have each of your friends do the same. Make sure someone harmless sees you do it.

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      • Family Man says:

        That’s a great idea Revere. Gotta think print media will reign in a post shtf scenario.

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    15. Paul Revere says:

      Acording to INFOWARS.COM it was Obama and attorney general Holder who funneled those illegal guns to the Mexican cartels. When the violence spills over into the U.S. just remember two names, Obama and Holder.

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    16. kevin says:

      200 guys show up armed with all that? 1. $HIT IN MY UNDDIES 2. PEE DOWN LEG 3. SHOOT WEAPONS 4. RUN 5. WIPE

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    17. Answer to this is easy MAC, 15, 12, 45, 243 Grace of God Almighty, that should do just fine.

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    18. JAFO says:

      Okay, guess it’s time. I haven’t said much but I will chime in here. I am part of a group. One of my best friends is also. He is LEO and I am a medic. That is how we met. I was a volunteer firefighter for 22 years before I retired. After some serious talk my friend and I realized we cannot leave our small community right away. My stockpile includes my “zombie guns” that I have invested a lot of time and money tuning to my preferences as well as several ak47′s and ak74′s that Ivan hand out to trusted community members and not worry about. Casey and I will defend, organize, and help the members of our community as long as possible. This includes op positions as well as sniper/supressive fire support. If you think you can hide in the hills and then come to town to “barter” post SHTF. please think again you will be an outsider and not welcome. You will be considered part of the hord or an agent for others until you can prove otherwise. It will take a lot of TIME before you’re excepted and you will be watched always. I do not promote a time where man vs man in the US, but a second civil war is brewing. Please, protect your family but never forget to love and protect the innocents while you prep.

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      • Durango Kidd says:

        JAFO: With preps and the right BOL as I have mentioned, you and your family can sustain yourself indefinitely in an out of the way location that would be better than town under some SHTF Scenarios.

        A small town might be better for an economic collapse.

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      • If I make it to my BOL I’ll probably be buried there. If a resemblance of life and barter resumed I know many in the nearby town and am quite certain my moon shine will be a welcome commodity that I bring for a visit.

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    19. VRF says:

      dont forget who armed them either…Eric Holder!

      and our lovely ATF

      why isnt he and them on the terror watch list?

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    20. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress says:

      Fully automatic weapons. Homemade RPGs with phosgene gas warheads. Lots of ammo.

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    21. Mal Reynolds says:

      I’m more in the camp with “Just Me”. The Criminal Element will, for the most part, eat itself before the survivors think to turn to the suburbs for food. While gang leaders are often highly intelligent, ruthless and evil, their minions are often brutish, self-centered thugs with weak minds. These guys, BY AND LARGE, will self-destruct when the SHTF. (MILITARY TRAINED MEXICAN CARTEL TYPES EXCLUDED. I’m far away from them and not too worried about Tony Montana taking a shot at me with an AR-15). You also have to factor attrition into the equation. As the surviving gang members make their way out of the cities, they will take casualties as they raid homes. The farther away you live from the cities, the safer you’ll be from the gang bangers. If you’ve got a family and you’re in the ‘burbs, you’ll eventually have to bug out toward the country anyway in order to find land to cultivate, lakes to fish, etc… etc… Suburbs quickly become food deserts.
      The article mentions the pros and cons of discussing survival preparedness with the neighbors. It’s a tough call. I’ve got good neighbors and I’ve hinted at what’s coming. They ‘know’ the future is ‘gloomy’, but they’ve all bought into the notion that ‘things will work out in the end’. You’re not going to change their opinion and you’re not going to convince them to start stocking up on food supplies and ammunition. But you’re going to need them. That’s the plain truth. So once you’re done stockpiling for you and yours, you start stockpiling for the neighbors too. I’ve got enough food for my family for a year and now I’m putting it away for the two families I’ll ally with. Food, right now, is still cheap. Extra eyes and extra rifles later… well… that’s priceless.

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    22. Joe says:

      Just finished “PATRIOTS” by James Wesley, Rawles. Great book for those who has not read it & good info on post collapse.

      We will have our hands full…

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      • 1JeffT says:

        For those who don’t own that book…YOU SHOULD! He goes out of his way to provide a lot of detailed step by step instructions all cleverly wrapped in fictional novel format.
        Definitely worth reading and keeping a copy “on hand”. The authors website on survival is also one the better one’s I’ve ever seen too.

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    23. Ethan Allen says:

      How will you protect yourself from Heavily Armed Organized Gangs?
      With like minded friends, interlocking fields of fire and superior firepower of course.

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      • Durango Kidd says:

        Organized gangs will not leave the major cities until they have decimated it and themselves. By the time they get to me, they will have spent their fuel, food, and ammo for a crust of bread.

        These people are not very bright. Only the most ruthless will survive the inner city and they won’t have a clue outside of the city limits.

        Without food and fuel they won’t get far.

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        • Great_North says:

          This analysis is correct. It must also be remembered that modern urban-ethnic gangs exist because they have the support and ‘blessing’ of the federal government. They are protected by civil rights laws and sustained by welfare, public-housing, food stamps etc. Should the Fed collapse much of their supporting ‘infrastucture’ goes with it.

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        • Belisarius says:

          While i agree with the rest, they won’t run out of ammo.

          Lots of folks stockpile ammo. Many are not planning for SHTF. Some just buy in bulk when its on sale, some are afraid of controls, and others just like to shoot alot. Many will bug out and not be able to carry it all. It is unlikely a gang of that size will run out of ammo in this country.

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    24. I couldn’t agree more that good neighbors will be invaluable if SHTF. Either you have good neighbors, or you better be so far out in the boonies that even your friends can’t find you.

      I live out in the country along way from a major city, but I live along a fairly busy rural highway, so I’m going to need to cultivate my neighbors into some sort of loose militia of likeminded red necks. Including myself, the red necks I know are armed to the teeth for deer and hog hunting and would not hesitate to harvest a bunch of rowdy “home boys” or trouble makers. The bad guys may cause some damage initially, but in time the red necks around here will have them all shot up and cut into strips for drying into jerky.

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    25. Brent says:

      The current gang of pillagers in Washington State are all members of the Democratic Party. The members of this gang of pillagers are:

      Laurie Jinkins of Tacoma
      David Frockt of Seattle
      Reuven Carlyle of Seattle
      Deb Eddy of Kirkland
      Sam Hunt of Olympia
      Jim Moeller of Vancouver
      Timm Ormsby of Spokane
      Eric Pettigrew of Seattle
      Chris Reykdal of Tumwater
      Cindy Ryu of Shoreline
      Mike Sells of Everett

      They are attempting to pillage tax payers by filing a lawsuit to overturn a voter-approved referendum that limited their ability to raise taxes.

      http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2015724705_taxlawsuit26m.html

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    26. sanityjones says:

      I plan to bury my face in a few pounds of coke like Al Pacino in Scarface and then yell “Remember the Alamo Bitchez” in my best John Wayne voice and just kind of wing it from there. What do you think?

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    27. Mcfrolie says:

      If this is a real pic of the loot from the gang there is on way in hell a small band of “prepers” could hold off an attack. I see 2 RPGs and .50 cal sniper weapons on that table.
      When in the sand box I saw 20 men with less hold down a platoon. That is until air support arrived.
      Some of you need to put down the DVDs and step back because it is all fun and games until someone gets an eye put out.

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      • Mal Reynolds says:

        Huh? An RPG and a .50 BMG will only take out an eye? Well bring them on then!! I once took out a company of Clone Troopers with nothing more than a glowing sword… But that was a long time ago…

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      • scott says:

        There is always a way but it will take everything you have as a man to find it. The Taliban say Marines run towards the sound of gunfire when they should be running away. Some will die this is true, but isn’t that always the case? I told my wife and daughters when it starts I will go and fight. This is how I was brought up, how I was trained as an 0311 and how I will die as a man. 4 well trained and determined men can take out many!

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    28. Stealth says:

      Wow this is my one major concern. How to gather the neighbors and turn then into a defend-able force? Don’t know, all I do know is I can’t do it alone. What I wouldn’t give for my team back in the Stan. We could hold off a small army [and did].
      I hate this shit. My children are 7 and 11 and I didn’t want my son to have to fight like I did.
      Everyone of those detestable, corrupt bastards in DC should swing from a light pole like a pinata.

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      • I hope your children don’t have too. Let’s all hope, but even at that age they can handle a 10/22 which is better then nada. Host a BBq, some wieners and buns etc are cheap. I found out I got an Iraqi vet across the street with an AR10, a Korean vet across the next street ( I’m on a corner) with a nice M1A, and my house is loaded with something for everyone. Even the college kids a house over have a shotgun and lever 30/30. 2 doors down a local cop who no doubt will be home protecting his hot daughter and wife…..

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      • Scooter says:

        Me too. I’m probably the only one within a half a klick (except my 10-year-old) that knows which end of the damn weapon to hold.

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    29. Rachel says:

      In my area the chances of comming across such a gang is pretty slim to none even in end of the world senario. Distance, location and area do make a difference.

      I live in a small town over 40 miles from the nearest dinky city. To even get here thugs would spend a half a tank of gas, find one gas station, one store, and maybe find the high school if they look for it. (Only scool on a state road.)

      TEOTWAWKI would bring this little farm community together. Hunters galore, farmes strecthed out over large distnces.

      First the bad guys would have to know where everything is in the town. Would have to know what the town has and actually find someone to threaten. Big challange there.

      There is nothing of value in my town and by the time gangs come here looking for food the store will be closed or empty. The gas station will be closed as well. The schools would be made into shelters…if they can actuially find one. Then there is the issue of the police station right infront of the town. LOL.

      Nope, gang would simply pass through town on way to another city. And if they blink they might miss it.

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      • Lohkai says:

        They couldn’t pass through my tiny BOL. The only highway dead ends into a river. That would be fun to watch though. Just drive ‘em on into the water and watch ‘em drown.

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    30. SmokinOkie says:

      Did Max Keiser really say, in RT interview, that all republicans are racists? And they are financially ‘lynching’ obammy? OH, please! Say it isn’t so, Max! I used to have a little respect for you. Well, just a little, but still…

      Now about this potential threat of armed gangs described above: I’m more concerned about the gov and what they will do. And they’ll try to do it long before the chaos or riots start in the cities. I think many people will have reasonably good odds of fleeing or fighting the hordes, but with the gov and their tactics, and it’s before any acknowledged crash or shtf? Remember, the gangs only loot, ravage and kill you once then they move on. The gov wants to enslave us so they can use and abuse us continually. There’s our real enemy!

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      • anonymous says:

        His side kick is cute and the post office is broke.

        http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/25/news/economy/post_office_shut_downs/index.htm

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      • Durango Kidd says:

        The government will be concerned about protecting governmnet buildings, strategic installations, and government officials.

        In a SHTF environment they will care only about themselves. As they do now.

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      • Lohkai says:

        None of this mess can really be blamed on one man or one political party. It’s been in the works for a long, long time. And most of the real culprits have never held a public seat and never will. But, they’re holding almost all of the money and the power and have been for a long, long time. Our so-called government has been but one of many tools they’ve used.

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        • 1JeffT says:

          Very VERY well said!! In you’re honor, I quote William of Ockham: “Never increase beyond what is necessary, the number of words required to explain anything”.

          Our true De jure Constitutional republic given to us by the founders in 1787, was TOTALLY high jacked on Feb. 21, 1871
          Money system high jacked in 1913 after “the secret meeting” on Jekyll Island in 1910. In 1933 FDR amended just 1 word in the 1917 “Trading with The Enemy Act”, making us all “the enemy”. If you want to ever truly understand why we are know ruled OVER almost exclusively by executive orders, YOU MUST first THOROUGHLY understand what happened in 1871. Which is just a short few years after Lincoln issued (under “national emergency”) the very first ever recorded “Executive Order”. YES…once again…it was ALL totally orchestrated by those who have never held office. FOLLOW THE M O N E Y!!

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      • Davidus Romanus says:

        Smokin Okie you are so right. I am more afraid of the gov’t than roving battalions of drug dealers. The gov’t will make gold and silver illegal to own. The gov’t will arrest you for hoarding food. The gov’t will (attempt to) take your weapons. All this will happen before you get roving bands of thugs looking for food. I’m not worried about roving bands coming for my food. I’ll be safe and sound under the govt’s protection in one of their FEMA camps.

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        • DPS says:

          Davidus

          You are on to something there, you are aware of the fact not fiction the troop build up in Co. is around 40,000 and they have been moving some pretty big Shyt there though the panhandle of TX. All of which is being shipped by private companies.

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    31. Patriot One says:

      I do believe we will have roving band of thugs raping, pillaging and plundering the countryside. I don’t think they will last very long.

      Large bands of thugs, gang bangers and criminals require large amounts of supplies. In my opinion they will only last as long as there are easy prey. Within a matter of weeks the easy prey will already be dead.

      The longer people survive post collapse the smarter they become. Its natural law, survival of the fittest. The larger roving gangs will also be ripe for pandemic.

      Another thing about large groups is they are easily ambushed and lead into ambush. Properly executed a small group of 4 to 6 can take out hundreds.

      If you know the old legal saying; possession is nine 10th’s of the law. Well the same is true of possessing and knowing your territory, turf and neighborhood. Having LP/OP post and regular patrols is so you know what is happening around your neighborhood. (LRP) Long range patrols may be the only early warning system you will have against roving gangs.

      None of us knows what will happen or who the enemy will be. Stick to your basics and have the ability and knowledge to adapt and over come the rest. The only rule in a survival situations is to survive.

      Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum.

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    32. greaseman says:

      In reality, who knows what scenerio will play out. If the roving gangs aren’t too large, i think most average joes who are well armed, stand a fair chance at defending themselves. Remember, criminals are going to go for the weakest prey first, and there are plenty sheeple in the pasture. Why challege your home if there are easier prey down the road.?? When these gangs are found in your area, they need to be killed if possible. Unless you have been in the military, I think most regular joes would have trouble chasing someone down, and putting a bullet between the eyes. it’s easy to talk about killing someone, but unless the bad guys have a gun pointed at you, most people would have trouble doing a kill shot. just my oppinion.
      I feel like I have the best chance of survival with my neighbor helping me. I would gladly share my food for some extra security.
      lastly, this idea of bugging out to the boonies is almost a joke. Unles you’ve had military survival training, and know how to live off the land, forget it. Also, there will be hundreds of people who have the same idea as you, and will shoot the first thing that moves, thinking it is their next meal. How long do you think the wild animal population will last with hundreds running arround killling everything in sight??
      As another poster said, prep, prep, and prep some more. Harden your home as best as you can. You have a better chance on home turf than anywhere else.

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      • Lohkai says:

        Yes, there are those who will not be so readily capable of killing, but according to the studies, 4% of the population are sociopaths. If you pass 100 people a day, you’ve encountered 4 and don’t even know it. In a crisis, it may become quite clear who they are. Then again, you probably won’t know until they’ve already very efficiently put the fourth corpse on the ground without any hesitation or expression. Check out “The Sociopath Next Door.” They don’t all act nuts and go on killing sprees. Indeed, they’ll be some of the most level-headed people you may ever know. They may also “appear” to be timid or quiet types, reserved – those are generally the ones who know what they are already and are “hiding”. If they’re on your side, make sure they have plenty of ammo. Their only hesitation might be any concern over your and the community’s disapproval, so be sure to tell them it’s okay, fire at will.

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    33. scott says:

      As mentioned before, I am screwed LOL as I think the folks in my neighborhood have zero preperations and the ones I do know have no weapons.

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    34. That Guy says:

      I might advise folks be more concerned about YOUR governement, and ITS agents, “legally” taking anything and everything they want… at anytime… according to these executive orders.

      EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

      EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

      EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

      EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to seize all means of transportation, including personal cars, trucks or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports, and waterways.

      EXECUTIVE ORDER 10999 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

      EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

      EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

      EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

      EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

      EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

      EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

      EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

      EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

      EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049 assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.

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      • Just me says:

        My EXECUTIVE ORDER #1 is NO ONE is taking anything of mine while I’m alive, especially the outfit that put us in this fix.

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      • PO'dpatriot says:

        What did Herr Oshambles say the other day? Something like, “Doing something on my own, is very tempting”. Meaning signing through executive orders, illegal immigrants receiving amnesty and then possibly the debt limt debacle. I think if the ink stars to flow, the blood will too.

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      • Davidus Romanus says:

        One more reason we need Ron Paul as President. Executive orders are NOT law of the land. Executive orderss only apply to the Executive branch of the Federal Government. All of those orders listed above are totally illegal and unconstitutional. Unless we get a constitutional president, and I don’t know any other than RP, all those orders will be carried out as if they were real laws, and we will be in big trouble.

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    35. How about the gang of 536? Nothing has ever raped, burglarized, stolen, killed and destroyed more than them. I have survived them. I’ll survive without them. Though their violence was measured, it was merciless.

      I will survive the new gang like I did the old gang: I will hide the best I can, though, the cover for the new gang will be different from the old gang. The new gang has fewer tools and cruder methods but greater violence. The good news is that they can be pursuaded with a few well placed bullets. I’m VERY good at placing bullets. The continual flow of targets around my front yard prove it. The old gang, once they found you, were were done unless you changed your identity. Ask the Branch Davidians and David Koresh.

      Either way, I see this new gang as way more manageable than the old gang. Gotta have something to feed the coyotes.

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      • Patriot One says:

        You forgot 11. Remember what TJ said: “A little revolution every now and then is a good thing”

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        • 435 Congresscritters…
          100 Senatesuckers…
          1 King, er, uh, President…

          11… ??? You lost me?

          SCOTUS?

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        • anonymous says:

          You had me at You.

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          • anonymous says:

            I only count nine.

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          • Patriot One says:

            Yeah I know this is a smart group on this site. There are many more I would remove, like the Cabinet and all the Secretaries.

            Notice I used the word smart, not educated. The real problem in America moral decay and radical teachers. Its hard to believe an education system produced these highly educated idiots.

            But hey they are all good at correcting my spelling and punctuation. They are also very good public readers.

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          • Lohkai says:

            The trouble with education is that critical thought must be taught by critical thinkers. The only criteria for teaching is a piece of paper, and most critical thinkers face difficulties in pursuing their own education (piece of paper) because they are more intelligent than their instructors who decide they have an attitude and don’t deserve the grade. So, you end up with a positive feedback system (yielding negative results).

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    36. Red Leader says:

      I like Mushroom’s plan. Buy them off with ten dollar bills!

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    37. Freeport56 says:

      Like 100 million other Americans I am WELL armed and have a group. Considering I do not live in a major city(50 miles from) It will be a while before we have to deal with that threat. Security will be job 1!

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    38. Bloodyfellow says:

      Sometimes you have to just think outside the box…lol

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFl3pWbfVX8

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    39. Granny Grip says:

      Consider getting night vision equipment. A lot of the looting, etc. will take place at night. Good chance they will shoot out the street lights. If you control the streets with military efficiency, you may shoot out the lights to gain the advantage.

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    40. REB says:

      Very true!

      I would like to call to ya’lls attention REBs Non-executive counter rule # 1 “It authorizes myself(thated be me) and all my rebel and outlaw brothers and sisters… thated be ya’ll… to refuse to pay any attention to the aforementioned “excecutive orders”(not that any of ya’ll needs a non-executive order to do what ya’ll do natural like anyhows,just wanted to help the ones who do) it also authorizes the use of any and all cuss words…old standbys are excellent but be creative,invent a few new ones)you can tell ifn they work by how red the official(s) you hurl them at gits … vulgar hand signs such as “flippin the bird”or a booger… as well as the time honored art of “mooning”are encouraged!
      ALSO any “freestyle” repulsive displays may to be directed towards the issuing executive and his band of helpers…have fun,be creative!
      Please be aware that since most executives and their kin see themselves as very moral persons the practice of this non-order may cause them to be resentful and react in a un-neighborly manner,which may include but not be limited to “getting your backside kicked,fined,or imprisoned,please play responsibly! ;)

      And just so as to be “politickly” correct this here order is to apply without respect to “race,gender,gender preferences,intellect(or lack thereof)sex(or lack therof)religious beliefs,you know,pertnear anyone.. ;)

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      • Its a lot easier to say:

        I claim common law jurisdiction.
        I do not consent and I waive the benefit.

        (Its the patriotic way to say: “Take all your bullshit codes and statutes and cram them up your butt!”)

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    41. J Gibbs, PhD says:

      Lot of shooting and homemade explosives in these replies, but do not forget to think outside the box when dealing with larger groups. Remember, most communities, and even small rural gatherings, will have their road accesses barricaded and manned with light to moderate defenses. These are early warning posts if nothing else, and if properly chosen for location, they can offer a real headache to light vehicle and shoulder fired weapon gangs. Sniper’s nest should be supporting these hardened road blocks, and of course you homemade mine boys can ad your tricks here too. Heck, here in the Rockies, a couple sticks of dynamite will close the road to all traffic if it gets past the last road block.

      But my main point to to remember large groups require large supply, and this is a weakness that can be exploited. If there are water trucks/carries with this roving convoy, a stealth night operation to poison this and any food supplies, or leave several pounds of food stuffs and jugs of water behind one of your abandoned road blocks. These hordes are always opportunistic and will consume anything left, so use this.

      An old Nam trick by the spookies was to leave handloaded ammo in areas for the gooks to find, but this ammo was loaded with grenade powder to explode the weapon and wound/kill the shooter. You can fill a 5.56 or 7.62 with a case full of fast burning pistol/shotgun powder and get a similar effect. Leave a box here and there so it is hopefully used by several members.

      Don’t forget that most effective and demoralizing of all close in weapons….FIRE! Homemade Napalm from gas and soap powder or gas and Styrofoam. Or, just good ol’ Molotovs. There are ways to simply make flame throwers that are effective, so google those for your library.

      Also, if you are using road defense barricades, add a few pits, spikes, heavy cable snares, barbed wire, etc to slow the progression. Be sure to place your road defense far enough away from your town or community to build defensive layers and buy time for those back in the home front.

      If these roving gangs are traveling by motorized caravan, take out the first 2-3 vehicles in a strategically planned spot to help close the road between your barriers. If you can disable the majority of their vehicles and it is still a couple of miles to town, they will either be less prone to transverse the distance on foot under heavy sniper fire and hit-n-run ambushes, or they will have their numbers reduced before they get to their prize. If you live in wide open spaces, then adjust your plans to include an bridges or other potential choke points. If none and traffic can simply go cross country, then plan accordingly and use deception to funnel them into a kill zone of your choosing. Again, wire, spikes, cables pits, tank traps, etc. CONTROL the situation and do not let it control you.

      These and other tactics have been used throughout history as force multipliers and have allowed a smaller force to defend and defeat against a greater force. Just THINK and ADJUST to you situation. Remember: Improvise, Adapt and OVERCOME!

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      • Plain Old American says:

        Living in the western half of Orygun allows the use of chainsaws to fall large trees across the roads. They can spend some time and effort removing them, (while under fire) walking forward, (while under fire) or riding back the the way they came from.

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      • I read on a prepper site–a family intends to cut trees to the property lines/driveways–they have chainsaws ready and waiting..good idea for little communities?? with guards??

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      • Lohkai says:

        Just so you know, lilly of the valley is one of the most potent neurotoxins known to man. It’s also very pretty in the flower bed. Grind it up and steep it in gun oil to dip your bullets. If the first shot doesn’t kill them, they’ll be much easier targets soon enough.

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    42. Granny Grip says:

      Also use dragons breath flame thrower rounds in your 12ga. shotgun.

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    43. zeke says:

      food & water, guns & ammoo, silver and gold; whether we are farmers, blue collar or white collar, military or police/firefighters, most of us have worked our asses off to get the little piece of dirt or other stuff we have whether it is a nice house, a classic car or a nice gun or a membership at the local golf course- we’ve worked 80-90 hours (and more) a week for decades and no born fu__ing losers are going to take it from any of us without a fight! We grew wup with John Wayne, Superman, the Lone Ranger, Gunsmoke, Bonanza, Leave it to Beaver, (ok Gilligan’s Island and the Brady Bunch too, etc.), and love this country (not the government) with all of our hearts and these gangs of losers will pay dearly for destroying our way of life until my last breath if the SHTF truly does come our way. Hopefully, the politicians will wake up before they destroy the country becuase it is just hanging by a thread now. I also expect the military will be on the people’s side if it comes down to it.

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      • Sundance WMC says:

        yes….we grow up in amerika watching all these shows, while the people coming against us have been raised in the horror of constant bloodshed and killing. These gangs kill, that it all they know is to kill…..I will fight to protect my family and the dream once known to us all as FREEDOM while you keep watching your tv.

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    44. Fed Up says:

      I am going to continue to be invisible, and if that fails, my group will have to open the cans of whoop-ass that are waiting for the horde. I think it is better to not be noticed if possible, but having watches for anyone coming will let my group know if we have to take action.
      I could spend a lot of time explaining whoop-ass, but it would appear so many of you have already done such a perfect job, why waste the space?

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    45. Red Leader says:

      FOO GAS seems like a good idea:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wcE_4-UK-g&feature=player_embedded

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    46. DRD5508 says:

      Folks, keep this in mind, before you start to run from the 200 plus gangs or whatever the number. The waring gangs will be use to being on the offense. Take out a few and maybe a vehicle or two and you now have them on the defense. Whatevere your defensive plans are, start making offensive plans. Such as: how far you will go to engage them. Once you’ve put an enemy on the defense or the run, you can’t let them regroup to quickly.
      The biggest weapons, for any gang, are suprise and confusion. They naturally won’t have a defensive mind set. Reverse their approach and use it to your advantage.
      Just food for thought.( It has worked for the Israelis on many occasions).
      Aim high and fire from multiple firing points.

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      • DRD5508 says:

        Also, for God’s sake, try to stay away from automatic fire as much as possible, it gives away your position easier. Fire from different types of caliber rifles, this gives the impression of multiple personnal firing. If you have a 50cal., by all means fire a couple of rounds and make sure you hit something. Quickest way to deflate the gangs desire to attack.

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    47. boone says:

      every one is talking about the (takers) gangs and thugs,
      what about the man?
      and who’s side is he on
      there’s more to all this than what meets the eye!!!!
      most of the trouble will start in th east and that will be your’e real first warning that the shit really has hit the fan.
      Zeke hit the nail on the head….
      I’m with you

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    48. OKPrepper says:

      Well armed gangs has been at the top of my list when it comes to planning a BOL location. If at all possible, choose an area of land that has several natural choke points, such as rivers. Bridges can be blocked or taken down as needed to force the gang bangers or the golden horde to spread out and go way around your location. Pull those same choke points even closer in, find land with small creeks and streams with old bridges. That for starters.

      Then choose land with no visible structures, no power lines going onto the property. Nothing to cause the gangs to even notice you might be there.

      You will always have neighbors, get to know them, find out who can be trusted and who might be the one to sell you out. If this day comes, have extra communication equipment that you can pass out to your neighbors inside the choke points, they need to know you have their back in the event that they were to come under attack. Or that they can fall back to your BOL if needed. Those situations would be fluid and comm between neighbors is critical.

      Train on your property, know the lay of the land, if possible have spider holes and cashes of weapons stashed around the property. Have LPOP positions place in critical areas of the property, comm with the main house. Determine where a force would attack you from, most likely from the road by vehicle. Have barricades ready to put up once you are at your BOL. Set up trip flares, video surveillance, motion detectors, anything to give you warning and time to get your defenses active. Design your defenses to force your attackers into the open ground and into your field of fire.

      Clearly you cannot man something like this by yourself, that is where your community comes in. Whether it be a handful of neighbors on your block, or neighbors on rural farm land, or 40-50 people on your BOL. It will take an army to defend against an army. They will be well armed, but will likely choose to pass you up if you hurt them fast and hard. In the early months, there will be plenty of homes or farms to loot, so they will not likely try to take a property that is well defended. Have your best marksmen trained to look for the leaders in a gang, take them out first if you can identify them.

      Hopefully if the military comes into this equation, they will be busy trying to contain the problems in the cities. They will keep the gangs inside and not let them out. Once they get out, it would be a lot hard to deal with them. Look at recent history, LA Riots and Katrina. The local police just blocked off the bad areas and let them kill each other off. They will do the same thing but on city wide scale if it gets that bad.

      You don’t want to be trapped in the cities if it does turn into Zombie bikers and gang bangers.

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    49. Rick Blaine says:

      As I’ve said here before, if things get real ugly, I’d rather have 30 lbs. of ammo (and a gun or two to fire it) than 30 lbs. of gold or silver (which otherwise is a lot, obviously).

      …and if we get to that point, I think I’m first going to be spending some time distributing weapons to my family and teaching them how to shoot.

      Firearms note – for AR owners here, if you haven’t looked into it yet, I’d consider getting a short-barreled upper, if not a complete rifle. I didn’t really believe it until I got to shoot one, but shaving four or five inches off the barrel makes the rifle noticeably easier to handle in close quarters. An SBR (barrel less than 16″) is a class III weapon, so it can not be legally built until you jump through the NFA hoops – which I’m doing right now.

      You CAN purchase the upper and lower separately right now – you just can’t legally put them together (OR buy a complete SBR) until you get your tax stamp back from the BATF. If you do buy an SBR upper, I’d recommend keeping it stored away from any lowers until you get the tax stamp back…or the SHTF…whichever comes first…

      …but, obviously, if things get ugly, no one is going to give a damn…AND perhaps more importantly, I can’t imagine an SBR’s value going DOWN if the SHTF.

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      • Just me says:

        Rick Blaine says:

        “””…and if we get to that point, I think I’m first going to be spending some time distributing weapons to my family and teaching them how to shoot.””

        better train them now, when you’re up to your ass in alligators, it’s too late to drain the swamp.

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      • Hey Rick; you must be referring to full auto because even here in Kalifornia we can buy lowers and uppers. The lower is registered and requires 10 days. You can buy them for as little as $140 if you are willing to buy in bulk – I just bought a 5 pack – BATF should be knocking on the door soon. The upper requires no waiting period, and you can even mail order them. If we had time as things were to decline I could go to the local gun shop, buy uppers, and walk out with them – thus having a complete semi auto AR. Uppers range from $350 to thousands. If you are putting an upper on a $140 lower there is no need to get expensive.

        We can also buy a 14.5 inch barrel so long as the flash surpressor is fixed and 1.5 inches long. It craetes a “16″ inch legal conforming “rifle.” We (unbelievable here in KA) can even make AR pistols with shorter barrels if we want – its not my thing.

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        • Rick Blaine says:

          Jim,

          Yes, I’m not sure on the specific law in the People’s Republic of Kalifornia, but I was in fact referring to “short barreled rifles” (SBRs – e.g., a rifle with a barrel less than 16″) not full auto (which I have not looked into yet).

          In general, you CAN walk into a store and buy a complete AR with an OVERALL barrel length of 16″ or more (which could be a 14.5″ with a pinned flash hider or something).

          In general, you can also buy a separate upper with of barrel of ANY length (even down to 7.5″, for example)…then you could also buy lower, separate from the upper which you would eventually use for that SBR upper.

          However, what you can not LEGALLY do is purchase/take possession of a complete SBR rifle OR build that SBR with the SBR upper you bought (i.e., put the lower and upper together) until you jump through the NFA hoops.

          So, the laws are pretty lame…because one simply can’t go to a local store and buy/take possession of a complete SBR (you need to do that NFA stuff, file a Form 4, etc.)…

          HOWEVER, you CAN legally purchase a regular AR lower AND an AR upper with a barrel that is shorter than 16″…BUT you are not legally allowed to put those two parts together to “make” a SBR, without doing the NFA stuff (e.g., a Form 1 for “making” a class III weapon, etc.)

          The laws just don’t make any sense…because I personally know people who legally have in their possession an SBR upper and an extra lower…which is fine. However, they can not legally use that upper until they do the NFA stuff. What doesn’t make any sense is that if they were a bad guy, they wouldn’t care about the laws – and they’d build the SBR and do whatever they wanted with it…

          Re AR pistols – yes, pistols (AR’s without stocks) are a different animal. Without the stock, it is not a “rifle” (or something like that). So, it is considered a pistol – just like a Glock or something. Again, the laws are stupid.

          As another indication of just how idiotic some of the gun laws are, look at Kalifornia’s ban, which does not allow bayonettes on some rifles…

          Uh, when was the last time a bayonette was used in a drive-by?

          Isn’t a kitchen knife more dangerous because it can easily be concealed (i.e., it’s not attached to a large firearm)????

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    50. Nomadic Survivor Guy says:

      No wonder the US is screwed. All you guys ever seem to do is parrot on about “taking the other guy out” before ‘he’ gets you!!! Seriously, you guys just aren’t ‘good operators’ in the field. Yanks are “All Bling- No Sting” My dad and his mates used to laugh there arse’s off when they got together for beers, about their time in Vietnam and what the Yanks were like. And now, in my time, I’ve seen the same in Iraq and Afghanistan. If your soldiers are anything to go by, then all I can say is “Good Luck” to you civi’s!!!
      Stability can be maintained, through effective and strong leadership, in towns and communities. Not by going ‘Norway’ on your neighbors!!! Grow up you dicks!!

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      • Yeah but you guys like kings and tyrants……remember we left that crap behind centuries ago!

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        • Nomadic Survivor Guy says:

          Kings and tyrants? Looks like you guys have more tyrants and a bunch of Kings running the show where you are. Head South young man ….. Head way South before the SHTF

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          • Scooter says:

            Nomad may have a point here…our “democratic” political system has been concentrating the very best of our sociopaths into positions of power for 200 years now…at least with an aristocracy you’re not automatically an arsehole just because you’re in charge…

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      • Sundance WMC says:

        your sorry ass would be speaking German were it not for us yanks…..

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        • Nomadic Survivor Guy says:

          I could argue this point, but right now I think it’s more important to remain focused on what’s happening now. I do not want to see you Yanks speaking FEMA or DHS. Once again were all in this together.

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      • Dr. Prepper Sez says:

        the kind of scum I would be shooting in a TEOTWAWKI situation…only as a last resort… are not the type of people I would ever call my neighbors…and as a subject of the crown you should never underestimate the aggressiveness of the unrestrained armed American with nothing to lose….

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      • Odd Questioner says:

        Nice troll, but how are you and your ‘mates’ going to fare if such a situation hits home, in a country where only the crims and plods have firearms, and the plods are long gone defending their own? ;)

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      • DPS says:

        Hey Nomadick

        Can you read between the lines????? I’m holding up 4 fingers gotta clue? And as far as you tea drinking bullsh-t you can take that and shove it in you loose a-s.
        And if you really believe that the USA was behind the norway shyt maybe you should go look in the Mirror and ask what the f-kk you country has done to stop anything thing in 200 hundred yrs??????? Oh yeah one other thing
        Your small pathetic opinion has been dually noted and Ignored..

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        • Bloodyfellow says:

          DPS: NSG… ain’t worth pissing on!!!

          Man fu*k that dip-shit!!! he is just a little bitch who was to big a pussy to ever fight for his owe country.

          I have been around the Royal Marines they are cool. Trust me none of them that I have ever met would piss on this bitch if he were on fire!

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          • DPS says:

            LMFAO

            Yep you are are right Bloody that guy would last about 5 mins in the crowd I tend to hang with, TX bikers just don’t give a shyt and a bloot like that well the words (your my bytch now come to mind). We are all in this together my a-s he across the sea from me and if he needs a address to come see me I’ll be glad to post it for him.I just wonder if the guy knows what 2% means.

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        • Nomadic Survivor Guy says:

          Oh. I’m sorry about the Norway comment, I was using it as a metaphor. I wasn’t accusing anybody of anything. Metaphors are useful tools in conversation, are they not? And Bloodyfellow@ Ive served my country on operations. Have you? I’ve met a couple RMs too, they only piss on people when there drunk, but their pretty good lads and loyal Mates when you know one.
          And DiPS why don’t you send me that address. I’ll take you up on the offer. Texas or Californian or Aussie or Maori bikers I don’t care, their normally all the same, unwashed that is. I travel to the US at least once a year
          Bloodyfellow@ you just stay at home now. I can see you’re working hard at the “readin n writtin” Keep it up you’ll get there in the end.

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    51. Mark Reither says:

      The number of men in my neighborhood that are ready to take this seriously is growing, but still very small in number. With wooden fences and sheetrock houses, children, and others who are simply unarmed and freaked, defending a suburban neighborhood will be very hard against automatic weapons and worse.

      I think the only viable option is to get he heck out of Dodge. And stop buying pistols and handgun ammo. Pistols are useless in combat situations. Need a cheap, reliable weapon? The Saiga, built in the original AK-47 plant and on that technology can be had in 7.62 x 39, .223, .30.06, and .308. The first three models are less than $400. The .308 is about $550. They are cheap, don’t break, and simple to maintain. Of if you want an even better weapon, just visit one of the shops on border and identify yourself as a mexican cartel member enrolled in a BATF program. :-)

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      • Odd Questioner says:

        “Pistols are useless in combat situations.”

        …until you find yourself indoors, having to defend against an intruder.

        Each type of weapon has a reason for continuing to exist. Pistols are included.

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    52. stan says:

      we are already seeing these gangs now and it will only get worse.

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    53. manos says:

      I’m not sure if there are many options if you come across such a gang. Most possible solution is to flee far far away, as long as you know they are coming.

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    54. Paul Revere says:

      Let’s not forget that it took a Mexican army of 5000 troops some 13 days to whip 183 Texan volunteers at the Alamo. And going to school in south Texas as a teen it was me against 5 cowardly Mexican Americans. They will never take you one on one.
      Never forget that Mexicans are hard workers but at the same time total cowards. If a ‘macho’ gang member confronts you simply stick your gun in the leaders face and pull the trigger. The rest will run with their tails between their legs like the cowardly dogs they really are.

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    55. Federalist45 says:

      Such gangs likely would be somewhat like those in THE BOOK OF ELI. Small towns would be run by single gangs, who may roam to other towns to do battle and steal, rape, and otherwise pillage. In cities, areas, or neighborhoods, would be controlled by gangs. Again, they may or may not roam and do battle. Honest citizens will have to choose to stay put or flee. If they stay put, they will have to organize and supply themselves. They may have to take the offensive. Of course, this assumes a breakdown of the political order. What could happen, instead of such a breakdown, is the consolidation of power and centralization of authority. Hitler’s Brown Shirts and SS were pretty good at keeping order. Stalin’s henchmen, as well. And this is to say nothing of Mao’s control. THAT is probably the biggest threat. When faced with chaos and insecurity, most people would surrender to authority their last vestiges of liberty in exchange for a little security–right?

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      • Odd Questioner says:

        Hitler was largely unsuccessful until he managed to get a national stage and woo the public (during his trial over the Munich Putsch, and through his book ‘Mein Kampf’).

        Mao had a whole frickin’ *army* behind him, and grew it by building opposition to a corrupt Chaing Kai Shek. Stalin inherited the USSR and quietly killed off his rivals.

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      • DPS says:

        Fed
        I’m not really up to the Hitler thing but I’ll ask my daughter about it she is a history minor and major in Phychic. But weren’t the people under the Hitler regime un armed? I ask because I just don’t know.

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    56. Kevin2 says:

      That Guy

      Those Executive Orders were repealed on Oct 28th , 1969.

      Granted Executive Orders are in essence “Royal Decrees” and those orders could return given a sufficient political climate.

      The only Amendment not yet pooped on is the third (Quartering of Troops). If an economic collapse occurs and there are insufficient facilities for troops that would be used to maintain and restore order I would not be surprised if the third was pooped on too. Considering King George sub contracted Hessian’s from Germany and the use of UN Blue Hats today those troops might not even be US. It’s like the ultimate in “outsourcing”.

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    57. manos says:

      PO’dpatriot,

      After last Friday’s “selective default”, the E.U. decided to provide us with another 110 billion euros for “saving” our butts.
      This new loan will be followed by a new package of austerity measures which will have a tragic effect in our lives and families.
      From a first glimpse i lose 729 euros from my salary for this year, and then 561 every year until 2015.
      The worst thing is the gas price which has reached the level of 1,758 euros per liter or 9,50 dollars per gallon (more or less). Finally there are all those food and product price increases, which decrease even more the monthly pay-checks.
      I believe that we will adapt to the new data, but it makes you sad knowing that you weren’t responsible.
      Thank God i still have my job, we are healthy, and my last resort is my property in the mainland.
      In the worst case scenario i will cultivate my olives and fix the garden.

      Thanks for the concern.
      Be safe.

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    58. VRF says:

      breathe, squeeze, rack another round?

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    59. COF says:

      Just start shooting the bastards half of the bean dips will start running, then you only have 100

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    60. VRF says:

      http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=326029

      all the way to the top folks..Do you know what that means?

      to me it means High treason..and we better get swift justice..

      if this gets swept under the rug..we the people should force them all out..

      follow no laws made , follow no policies , follow nothing that came down the pike all the way back to the Bush years..none of it is legit

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      • World Net Daily is an extremely biased publication. Take anything from extreme Right or Left with a grain of salt. If two or three articles sound spurious, generalised, or just plain partisan, you can’t count on much of the rest.

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        • VRF says:

          yes. probably true,, but the shit from the ATF and our “leaders” still stinks of high treason..

          you know they are involved,, and you know it was intended to undercut our constitutional freedoms

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    61. The Men With Guns you all need to fear is your neighbor, not some phantom gang menace. Think about it–when the political collapses, the social intrigues begin. Multi-faceted factions and groups and/or parties looking to fill the power vacuum. That in addition to National Guard units looking to maintain some kind of state security while propping up the state house. The situation you would be facing would be extremely complex and far more complicated than grass roots townsfolks holding the line against seedy gangs of criminal thugs. Refer to the French Revolution as that is a far better indication of what to expect.

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    62. SmokyMtnLady says:

      My husband and I were invited to be part of a group down in Ga…but after looking over the location….between Atlanta and Chattanooga, we declined. To near the big cities, even if it IS in the mountains of northern Ga. At this point, when things look like they are getting bad, we will bug out to the mountains of Tenn. where we have family and friends who are rednecks and love freedom AND their guns!!!
      We will band together and pray the gangs just pass us by! If not, we’ll defend what we have, in any way possible!!

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      • Mr. Blutarsky says:

        Smart move. Between Atlanta and Chattanooga is very developed – ironically I was just there yesterday.

        Our bug out property is over an hour by car from even a mid-sized city. And its no where near any major highways. It’s the best place we could think of and still stay in the Southeast.

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    63. emptyhandkiller says:

      If I am attacked by that great a number of killers/looters, then you have to accept that you are probably not going to make it. If it comes to that, I will burn my valuables and sit in a secluded place. I have ordered many of those Surefire 100 round magazines. With those loaded, and some good booze to drink to the end, I envision that not only will I take many of those A holes with me, but I will die a better death than by a slow painful disease. Good luck to all and keep your weapons clean and closeby.

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    64. SocialDeviant says:

      If we get to the point where roving bands of low-lifes are a concern then we’ll be ripe-for-the-picking by a much bigger body of well-armed thugs; those gang-bangers will be the least of our concerns. You’d better brush up on your mandarin.

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    65. BraneFrees says:

      Ahhhh….

      I love the smell of testosterone in the morning.

      It smells like… keyboard commandos.

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      • emptyhandkiller says:

        Hey, Brane, I understand what you are saying, but I really hope you are prepared for the worst, instead of Plan A: Curl up into a ball and hope they will be nice to you. I hope you are prepping and getting mad like the rest of us.

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        • BraneFrees says:

          emptyhandkiller,

          Prepping: check

          Getting mad like the rest of you: check

          Pounding my manly, hairy, Walter Mitty chest on a public board: pass

          :-)

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    66. AZ Ready says:

      I believe fuel will become very scarce, very quickly. Once it runs out, nobody will be roaming very far from home base.

      My prefered BOL will be on a lake in a houseboat, beached on sand with a cliff behind it. Only one way in, the water. With fuel at a premium, no one is going to come looking for me on the off chance they might find us buried in one of hundreds of canyons and coves, and if they do happen across us they will sink!

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    67. VRF says:

      30-06
      7mm mag
      7mm-08
      300 win mag
      .40 cal
      .45
      20 ga. 12 ga
      and 2 50 cal

      most with enhanced sights, and lazers..along with blinding lights
      and a night vision capability

      commando that

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    68. Dave says:

      How ironic? Just today I received my 50 rd drum for my .308 FN.
      I have news for all of you, these Mexican cockroaches will have a life expectancy of about 3 hrs if they go from neighborhood to neighborhood looking for trouble.

      Today I’m calling a well driller to install my second pitcher pump as well.

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    69. Nitro25 says:

      A bunch of neighbors together with wives & children to protect will benefit from a common purpose that will engender a motivational/emotional base, a fighting spirit if you will; that the hungriest gang could only dream of.

      Two or three skilled riflemen firing from concealment and cover with accurate scoped semi-autos could decimate a gang of twenty!
      Nothing more un-nerving than being pinned down & picked off by snipers.

      Those that survived physically would then have to deal with the immense psychological damage of the event.

      Chances are if you can deal with them at a distance in this manor, they’ll crawl out of Dodge to less bloody pastures.

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    70. stephen houston says:

      One might ask why if the Mexican gangs see the value of weapon caches, why aren’t loyal citizens doing the same. Or are we just stupid?

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    71. Jeff says:

      We sometimes fail to remember that we can use terrain and tactics to aid in our defense. Are there natural defensive barriers- gullies, rivers, embankments, etc.? Are there natural or man-made avenues of approach that funnel the enemy into your killing field? What tactics have you considered- such as OP/LP and overwatch, L shaped ambushes planned for and practiced, defense in depth- primary, secondary and supplemental positions from ground level to overwatch/elevated positions?
      Do you have a final protective firing line you will not vacate while the kids are shepparded out the concealed back door?
      Gang leaders – even organized ones have to overcome the individual wants of the gang member when the eqauation of survival enters his mind. “How much is that food or tank of gas worth when the volume of fire from the defenders is this high?”
      Move on to the next less prepared home or community.

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    72. Dr. Prepper Sez says:

      Two M1-A rifles with scopes for outside the quarter-mile…two AR-15′s (one scoped) for inside the quarter mile (and for the ladies)…two FN-five-sevens suppressed for inside the 150 meter line…two 45 ACP 1911′s for inside the 50 meter line…..

      one 9-shot .22 Taurus revolver for myself & family if they’re still coming and I run out of ammo.

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    73. emptyhandkiller says:

      Hey Brane… I tried to be decent with you. Now I know you are a scrawny pansy. If you are a man, but not prepared to BE one, just cut off your nuts and toss them in the disposal, OK? You will be better off, because in a crisis, little effeminate you won’t be asked to pick up a scary noisy weapon. Just hide in the closet. If we live, we will open the door and tell you everything is alright. Jerk.

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      • BraneFrees says:

        Oh geez, emptyhandkiller, you cut me to the quick. Demolition Man, you are (Yoda voice).

        I’ve seen the error of my ways and now I’ll do it your way. How’s this?

        When the zombies (whatever variety, you decide) come to my neighborhood, first thing I’ll do is pick ‘em off at a distance with my BMG Thousand Yard Stare. Oh yeah!

        Then as they get closer I’ll bring my manly box of toys out of hiding and start slinging lead, flashing steel, and all the while shouting to the rooftops (not hard to do – everything is single story dwellings around here) what a badass mofo I am! That’ll impress the heck out of ‘em!

        Then when they’re up close and personal I’ll rip their collective throats out with my teeth, insult their mothers until they can’t take it anymore, and last but not least – smash them with my .50cal Wilson Customized Computer Keyboard!

        Oh, I tell you – where I walk, children will run and hide, women will swoon and strong men will step aside and tremble!

        I am BraneFrees the Keyboard Commando!!! Hear me roar! To read my fierce postings is to know how bad I am! Bite me, ’cause I’m BAD!

        Wow emptyhandkiller, I see what you mean. That was so damn impressive I almost scared myself! This chest-beating on a forum is really empowering stuff. I get it now.

        Thank you.

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        • BraneFrees says:

          By the way, tomorrow I’m going to Home Depot and buy a contractor’s wheelbarrow to carry my massive cojones in as I strut down the street.

          This should prevent the possibility of injury to my lower back. We badass studs can’t be too careful, you know.

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    74. Joe says:

      If it really is this serious, why haven’t all of you left the country? More fearmongering.

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    75. Riot says:

      It’s not the gangs or drug cartels I’m worried about, its all the gun toting tards that buy gadgets and armor instead of food and other supplies. They will be the golden hoard, not the tired, lost and hungry.

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    76. If these people want your stuff they WILL get it, guaranteed. Let’s just hope they stay busy shooting at each other and either run out of bullets or other gang members to shoot at… you know, whittle down their numbers!

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    77. Dr. Prepper sez says:

      when the shooting starts you don’t rise to the occasion….rather you sink to your lowest level of training and preparedness….

      Find your trigger-pullers now…let the golf club swinging sissies hide behind their wives and children while you either harden your position or bug out to prepared digs to ride out the storm.

      The suburban sissies won’t understand until their stomachs are empty, their kids are crying, the power is out, and the knife is at their throat.

      Be prepared to see a lot of death….and be prepared to cause a lot of death in defense of your life, family, property, neighbors and the believers among us…..

      Start by going hunting…see what it’s like to put a bullet through the heart of a whitetail deer or an antelope at 100yds and watch it collapse and die. (ain’t no banger going to stand still for you like a paper target.)

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      • DPS says:

        Also be prepared to eat somethings you might ever think about eating, here in Texas the dove are very thick this year I can get my limit with a day or two in my back yard. Thanks to the new Gamo rifle, it took some sighting in but damn 177 pellets are cheap and at 1280 fps it sure is fun. I personlly love dove, and during winter months you can’t swing a dead cat with out hittin a goose.

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        • PO'dpatriot says:

          Love me some dove breasts on the grill after a good marinade. Goose, I can take’em or leave’em. Usually are put into the dehydrator for jerky. I’m in the Atlantic flyway btw.

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          • Bloodyfellow says:

            I’ed rather eat a crow then a goose, geese are so greasy :( and yes I have eaten both. If I’m hunting waterfowl it’s going to be duck hunting but, some ducks are better than others. Mud ducks taste like their namesake mud..lol!

            I have probably eaten more crazy shit in my life then most. with that being said I have never had the need to drink my own piss or pick through some critters turds to find my next meal. As we have seen on some to these so called survival shows on tv.

            There are things that I will never eat! Because I consider myself smart enough to keep me or anyone depending on me fed. (I try to keep that list short) Having a vast array of knowledge of plants and animals that live in North America that are editable is helpful. The things to know are the times of year they are best to eat as well as how to cook and eat them. Some plants will kill you if you eat them raw but, not if you know how to cook/prepare them.

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          • DPS says:

            Yep PO’d stuff a jalapeno in the dove breast wrap it with bacon and thats some great eats.

            Bloody
            Geese are very greasy no way around that. (you can live on it but it taste like shyt),Rattlesnake also very good grilled right and winter cotton tail rabbits yummy, (taste nothing like chicken) And my fav bird Pheasant now that is some really good eats.
            Here in the panhandle we are very blessed to have such wild life, the bad thing is its so dry right now we may end up losing alot of deer this yr. The boars are kinda tuff to find but they are still here, couple of good salt licks and some old fruit brings them in.

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        • Tom says:

          How long is the tail?

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    78. Fuel is a major issue. If you are in a populated area then 200 organized gang members might be an issue for a while. Remember at any point in time there is only a few days worth of fuel in the “system”. Moving 200 people plus the supplies to maintain a raiding party out of the city would be virtually impossible based simply on fuel. On foot they wouldn’t be a threat at all.

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    79. anonymous says:

      I like elk stew too but a banger doesn’t run that fast. Besides they’re nocturnal.

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    80. anonymous says:

      FOUR…head.

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    81. Big J Enterprises says:

      As far as weapons, really only edge the Zeta feta cheese clowns have are RPG’s and .50 cal rifles.

      Everything else on the table is available here, including .50 cal but expensive.

      If Zero invites too much civil unrest or continues to usurp the office past 2012, or the large government movement like coming VEPR checkpoints and more infringements, etc continue than .50 cal rifle I’ll obtain, not for mile long shots but for tactical firepower going through armor, cars, etc, perhaps .338 Lapau load, have to research more, including fire making materials.

      In addition, for urban, suburban setting, sound suppressors of various grades should be top priority, many manuals on their construction found at Scribd.com It’s a game changer in my opinion.

      Folks also look into the new slug by Brennecke,
      Special Forces Maximum Barrier Penetration Magnum able to penetrate windshields, rims, tires and even engines, and kevlar.
      http://www.brennekeusa.com/cms/max-barrier-pen.html
      available to civilians that’s basically armor piercing ammo, on sale at ammunitiontogo.com

      For the current everyday carry in today’s rising crime and rat packs, I pack 2 guns on my person, with a blade, and normally at least 50 rounds of ammo total. If can’t fit on person by clothing that ammo is available in car, and augmented when needed. My rule to always carry 2 guns, even in nonpermissive areas which means smaller more concealable fair as well. For night time I have large strobe light in car, and a Surefire torch on my person. I’ll also on occasion carry a blackjack with the blade. Sometimes blunt force or a fixed blade is tactically better especially in crowds or very urban area. Silence is golden.

      For further jaunts afield, add a car gun, sometimes a carbine with happy sticks that are compatible with my Glock.

      Otherwise plan to purchase another AK but underfolder placed in shall we say not a typical gun bag (none of my weapons in any bag that screams gun), Celox, more ammo to add to the stache, average cost night vision. In my mind staying below radar, mobile, lots of ammo and water is best for guerrilla ops.

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    82. sanityjones says:

      My neighbor revealed his contingency plan should such an occasion present itself. He has pre-positioned a boombox stereo on his perimeter which, with the flick of a switch will blare the YMCA song; at which point he will (dressed as the Indian) step out wearing nothing but a banjo, a headdress and a strap-on. The intruders can either leave or squeal like a pig(s). Makes no never-mind to him he says. Looks like I don’t need to make any plans at all.

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    83. Magsnumb says:

      Great thread. I have been reading shtfplan for about a year. A few days ago got a Ruger 17 HMR. Great pistol. I have other firearms, but not a lot of experience shooting. Probably 2000 rounds total. I am getting there. My neighbors have guns, at least three of them are heavily fortified and highly experienced, based on my conversations. Next door is a wealthy guy who swears he has all it takes to hold off any enemies, and he seems to have a “bring it on” attitude.

      Within a few miles, we have all kinds of riff-raff welfare Somalian and assorted lookalikes living in welfare trash apartments. Among ourselves on our nice land we know our greatest threat to a shtf scenario is the city just a few miles due west.

      I have a question. Assuming I have a shotgun, a 22 rifle, and two handguns (the aforementioned 17 HMR plus a large caliber). With a few thousand$$ to invest in ammo, what would you recommend purchasing? Thanks for any advice.

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      • An Ar-15 if you don’t have the money for an Ar-10. You can get one for 675 to 700 yourself and I reccommend building it from a stripped lower up. Then you’ll know it well and likely apply easy fixes when broken. Mags, bipod and a scope on it will add a reach out and hurt someone benefit to your current arsenal. If it might be a long time before you get a “10″ then go for a 20 inch barrel for good 250/300 yard hits. Later when you can afford the Ar-10 the 15 will be a better close range defensive weapon or hand off to the wife or oldest kid.

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    84. Steve says:

      When SHTF looters in America, even gangs, will be removed from the gene pool fairly quickly. A large percentage of Americans own guns, and we’re all ready and willing to use them. Most people are civilized, and looters will be a small minority. It’s simple math: being a looter will be a very short-term profession. Prospective looters take note.

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      • Nomadic Survivor Guy says:

        In Christchurch New Zealand after the February earth quake, locals formed Anti Looter patrols and rounded up looters for the Police when it got desperate. They had no water, power, sewerage for months!!!

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    85. mandelbrot says:

      Heavily Armed Organized Gangs aka the Government… in today’s society and if you are still banking on “will/future” you have already lost (it is now, here and now) we are living as subjects/slaves the rest is just the fallout!
      The thugs and gangs are here now just look around you and think with ‘critical thought’ soon 18 wheels filled with illegals will be rolling into your community. They will be housed, fed, clothed and will have enough pocket change to maneuver at will. They are now burrowed in every community in the USA and before the full collapse trust there will be more strategically planted and this scenario is just one angle. I believe the battle y’all are strategizing for has already been lost…
      The real crap to hit the fan is at a much higher level. The weapons used are state of the art quantum weaponry and this will be ‘earthquakes, volcano’s, nuclear fallout, weather weaponry, floods, droughts, fires, sickness and disease…’ the stuff we are seeing now beginning to make its presence known. With these facts factored in what is discussed here (safety and security…) is the same a sociopathic behavior induced out of ‘when you lose everything you lose it’ mentality. Trust, when this happens you will not have the strength to fight for anything but your next breath…
      Be prepared but be prepared armed with knowledge versus old school scenario’s long gone by ‘secondary to today’s technological state’…
      They are taking out our elite ‘whistle- blowers, Patriot Scholars, Patriot Scientists…’ one by one. They have strategically placed (street level) moles/tools/thugs… to covertly/silently execute this gig (these punks need to be exposed in our communities and NOW) they have infiltrated and are in full force mode and protected by law enforcement, the judicial system, the district attorneys…
      The masses are getting ready for a battle that is nonexistent for the most part. The battle is now but folks are too afraid to face the truth and they lay down their fight for life and freedom waiting for some obsolete scenario…SAD, SAD, SAD

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    86. Michel78 says:

      I live in Enkhuizen, Holland. No money for far away land. I’m fucked I guess. Take care.

      @Manos: hope all is well in Hellas/Greece. Fuck the International Maffia Fund!

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    87. emptyhandkiller says:

      If BraneFrees wasn’t totally involved with only himself and his smug little world, he might start seeing how many people suddenly leave the room when he enters it. Repulsive people are everywhere… Hey, BraneFrees, you could be their President!!!
      Oh, and by the way, I see how you get pleasure out of mocking people on here. It’s obvious now that you are a plant here to make trouble, and not serious about prepping or building unity on this page. How about you just get it out of your system and then disappear to the arms of your idiot liberal friends. Tell them all how incredible you are.

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      • BraneFrees says:

        Gosh emptyhandkiller, you seem to be a bundle of exposed nerves. And dang if I ain’t touched a few of them.

        You also make a lot of assumptions about me. Let’s see if I can’t address them a bit, just for the heck of it.

        “If BraneFrees wasn’t totally involved with only himself and his smug little world, he might start seeing how many people suddenly leave the room when he enters it.”

        Huh? Where’d you get that from?

        “Repulsive people are everywhere… Hey, BraneFrees, you could be their President!!!”

        Naw. I’ve never had any urge to run for office.

        “Oh, and by the way, I see how you get pleasure out of mocking people on here.”

        Okay, guilty on the mocking part. But let’s narrow it down a bit. My mocking is limited to to the Walter Mittys who pontificate on how ferocious they are and all the carnage they’re going to heap on the (fill in your favorite ethnic or religious group/gang/whatever here) when they show up after the SHTF. And all this from the security of their seats in front of the computer.

        I do NOT mock people with serious, constructive things to say.

        “It’s obvious now that you are a plant here to make trouble, and not serious about prepping or building unity on this page.”

        Plant? Nope. Here to make trouble? Well, a little mocking the chest thumpers, perhaps. Not serious about prepping? You missed that one by a mile. Building unity? Not with the chest thumpers. Nope.

        “How about you just get it out of your system and then disappear to the arms of your idiot liberal friends.”

        Actually, I do have a couple of liberal friends. Nice people and not idiots, although I consider their political leanings to be completely idiotic. They feel the same about me.

        “Tell them all how incredible you are.”

        No need. They already know.

        So there you go pardner. Relax a little, have a cold one and don’t take yourself (or me) so seriously.

        Happy trails.

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    88. NotWorried says:

      The US military and local police are gearing for this I’m sure. The government has too much to lose to let it all go to s@#t and be overrun by thugs.

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      • Nam Marine says:

        Not sure about the Military yet. But you will not have to worry about the Police. When TSHTF they will abandon their post and go take care of their own Families, not worry about you! I don’t say this in a bad way, my ex-son-in-law was a New York State policeman. If you were in their shoes, you would do the same. Just saying.

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    89. hunter says:

      When the gangs of 200 get to my area they will find on the fire a huge pot of freshly made chili, with bowls a plenty as spoons. If you are one of the 200… unless you like chili with antifreeze don’t partake. Just a little mind you, it won’t be tasted. Only takes a short time to shut the body down from inside. Horrible way to go, even scares the ones that didn’t get any to eat. Don’t waste ammo when unnecessary.

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      • emptyhandkiller says:

        Hey, hunter! I never thought of that…. sort of like, “OK, guys, let’s not fight. I will share what I have with you.” Sun Tzu would be so proud of you!

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    90. bill says:

      a warning to any looting gangs when the SHTF, you come to our area in the South, you are never returning home, your bodies will dismembered and buried for the dogs or the buzzards. we ourselves our former black ops and military ops. if you come with 10 or 200 looters we will kill all of you. we will counter measure your tactics you think you have, and there will be no mercy, consider yourself dead on arrival. you will be monitored long before you get into our town, we will know who you are and where you are going and be taken out either in the bush,on the road, off the road, hand to hand or we will 50 caliber or RPG you to death and your vehicles. you will have no warning at all and will be shadowed by us you will be eliminated period.

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    91. s2man says:

      We’re in one of six log homes on an 3 acres each. Each home can be covered by at least three of the others. Being in the middle, our house can be covered on all four sides by the neighbors. If they don’t bug out…

      In Brazil, I believe, during their hyperinflation crisis, crime was snatch and grab in city, where the gov wasn’t in complete control but could still be called. But gangs would go out into the country and spend a leisurely weekend raping, torturing and looting isolated homes. Glad I’ve got a few neighbors, now.

      200+ army? I don’t see why they would go out in the middle of nowhere on the chance some farm house was stocked up. Hitting small towns would seem to be needed provide the provisions they need to supply their personnel.

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    92. s2man says:

      Oh yeah. My SHTF plan is to push one of the non-running cars down the drive way, light it on fire, shoot it full of bullet holes, and maybe put some red paint on the seats. I’ll make it look like someone tried this place before, and they lost. ;-)

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    93. MilitiasRNeeded4USA says:

      To those of you bashing the malitias. Get a grip numb skulls. Militias are needed for the freedom of Miss USA whether you like it or not. Most are in favor of defending freedom. If you believe all malitias are bad people, then you must be one of them who are trying to steal our freedoms and you shall die like the rest of them. Stop believing your TV set. Not all malitia memebers are bad. It doesn’t matter what organization you belong to. You have good and bad apples in all of them. Just like HACKERS…oh no, they are bad people. That is complete BS. There are good hackers and bad hackers. It is how you use your knowledge that makes you a good person or bad. If you are going to continue to bash the malitias whether they are good or bad, then you deserve to die and you don’t deserve freedom either. you are completely ignorant That is what malitia / hacker bashers are. Educate yourself stupid!!! Cuz Dats What U R.

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      • Odd Questioner says:

        As much as I have respect for militias in general and from what I’ve seen of them, I do have to take issue with one thing you’ve written:

        “Educate yourself stupid!!! Cuz Dats What U R.”

        Not to sound like a snob or anything, but those two sentences, one right after the other? Seriously?

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    94. Just look like you are poor and starving too and hide all your provisions and precious metals VERY WELL and you will do fine.

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    95. Nam Marine says:

      I am a disabled Marine combat veteran from the Vietnam era. Although I am well armed(what Marine isn’t?), I am also dying from Diabetes and a bad ticker. I can’t bug out, I live in the suburbs, not the city. I know I will not last long, but, by God I will take MANY of them with me!
      Good luck to you all, and may God Bless you.SEMPER FI !

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      • Bloodyfellow says:

        Nam Marine: My most sincere and deepest respect for your service in Nam and every day since. I am a former Marine and was injured in Iraq.

        If you’er ever interested you are welcome to come and check out my personal videos that i shot in Iraq on my facebook page… My email is ( jsnakeeater@mail.com ) shoot me an email and I will send you on to some bad ass footage of Marines in action….

        I wish you and your family well.

        Hey…Teufel Hunden, Semper Fi!

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    96. Nomadic Survivor Guy says:

      Concealment remains the best option for any defense. Out of sight and out of mind. Don’t put warning signs up advertising you position or your intention. Don’t divulge your plan to anyone not in your plan. Give yourself options by planning ahead and even rehearsing a situation or event. Sand bag the inside of a house, not the outside. Be where you need to be, BEFORE the SHTF. Limit or deny vehicle access to your safe place, but don’t make it look obvious to an outsider. Limit your activities out in the open. Camouflage camouflage camouflage!!! Keep off the phone, the net and the radios. Avoid contact with non friendlies.
      Move fast ….. Stay low
      NSG, out.

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      • Lohkai says:

        A basement. A faux floor. A garage door opener. What basement? Be sure to glue a few cardboard boxes of junk to that faux floor so it looks like the closet it’s meant to.

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    97. Dave says:

      Sure, there are lots of scenarios that can unfold, but realistically it will be just a slow, inexorable decline in living standards to the point that we’ll be living like Guatemalan’s in 10 years.

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    98. DPS says:

      Nam Marine

      Thank you for the service you provided god bless you.

      I’m Not going to sit here and tell what I would do if these gangs come to steal ,loot , rape and try to hurt my family.

      I’ll leave it at the cost will be high !

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    99. Johnny says:

      Aim center mass. Squeeze. Wait for a buddy to come out and try and to save him. Repeat.

      If you survive and prevail in the encounter, string up the bodies in highly visible places as a message to future marauders.

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    100. laughable says:

      And this is why I mock you survivalists. The logical plan in SHTF/WROL is to kill your enemies, not hide in the basement of your shitty wooden home on 2 acres and play Swiss Family Robinson.

      The best defense is a strong offense. Those Hispanic gangs? Yea, there are going to be plenty of white men out there hunting them like the human garbage they are. Don’t worry about it, most of them will either have a .308 round in their skull or flee back to Mexico when this shit kicks off.

      But this only applies to those of us that properly see life through the ancient lens of tribe/race defining human civilization. If you’re some kind of diversity embracing moral relativist, well, enjoy the “diverse” experience of watching your daughter be raped by 20 Hispanic guys before they behead you with a machete.

      The warriors among us will do the work you fat old survivalists are both too weak and too cowardly to take upon yourselves.

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    101. The odd gang of looters will be your least worry. What are you going to do against air attacks, nuclear, chemical, bio? Armies(US, NATO or foreign) will be our biggest enemies. SHTF is designed, and the authors(the Jesuits/SMOM) want depopulation and One World Government.

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    102. emptyhandkiller says:

      Nam Marine… Real men like you are always in my thoughts. May your remaining days be pain free and peaceful.
      I wonder if the idiot BraneFrees will call YOU an “internet tough guy”? My prediction is that he won’t.

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    103. ex-corpsman says:

      Just a thought, there is a lot a person can do before falling back on firepower. Your own land, your local knowledge, time to set shit up,……….. study guerrilla warfare. Use your brains.
      The mother*#%@!&(‘s won’t even make it to the driveway. If they do, their numbers will be reduced.
      Make firearms your secondary defense, not your ONLY defense. Have a plan B.

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    104. Bloodyfellow says:

      Ted Nugent goes OFF on Obama…”Suck on my machine gun mother f_cker!” lol :)

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy8RIiTyhMI&feature=related

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    105. silverguy says:

      I wish the US gov. would stop selling all those guns to them!

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    106. Bloodyfellow says:

      Time for a New American Revolution

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra833X8uaNE

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    107. Rickky says:

      What you have now is not what you would, a whole community started preparing. People with mechanical skills would turn almost any vehicle into an armored carrier, people with machining capabilities could make unimaginable weapons, many construction and mining companies could come up with more explosives than the military has (think how much they use to cut through a hill). Now I am starting to feel sorry for the gangs that would oppose such a community.

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      • Lohkai says:

        Gee, an armored combine – that’d be pretty grisly. I’ve seen a canon that shot golf balls send them through the engine and firewall of 18-wheelers (don’t ask). People are more capable and resourceful than most others give credit for.

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    108. rewards11b says:

      I have to disagree with the many posts on here that say that gangs will self-destruct. That is not nature. Thank of a gang as an organism. As it roams, wherever that may be, it will learn. It will have experiences and learn the most efficient way of getting what it needs. Make no mistake criminals may be dumb but the will evolve. Some say after a year or two the will be disbanded. I argue that after a year or two they will be extremely efficient killing machines.

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    109. bill says:

      Be careful of the ones who, like shy and timid and like American pie, these will be the ones that will be the most dangerous, especially when they enter your 20 ft. safety sphere rule and you let them in without givi9ng it a thought. What will you do then , when he is in your face and suddenly he pulls out a gun or hidden knife. what will you do then if he gets to grab your wife or children and has a knife up against there throat, what will you do then.

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    110. GhostXmasFuture says:

      Defense from a selected spot might be nice and more feasable for situations, food storage/defense but you might not have a choice to become mobile. The area your setting up in could become an issue for whatever reason? I believe you will need a sense of mobility. I agree lone man in wilderness is a dead man but a moving small pack with a destination could work. Stealth movement(night vision important), no fires/ cooking/camping etc.. in any possible compromising situations unless your 100% sure its o.k. Not worried about roving 200+ gangs, worried about one or two, lone, suckerpunch shooters.
      You will need: good boots/ tough clothing/ good knife/ fire source (lighter). Weapon, but you can only carry so much ammo, weapon should be something you can find ammo for (shotgun) but at least one member carrying scoped rifle. Food will be tricky since you can’t carry alot (and water will be more important) I suggest carrying seeds from crops that grow quick, like radishes and are staples. You MUST have a destination and its a roll of the dice as to whether it is a good destination but if you are forced to be mobile, know where you must go. I’m sure I’ve left things out but thats apart of thinking things through. Oh, if we reach a state of SHTF, in order to survive you must come to the realization that you are already dead, chances of survival will be very small and you will most likely will soon be. You will function better that way.

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    111. My family and I are defending ourselves by living in a place where the likelihood of having to do that is minimal. 20+ miles from paved road, 3rd least populated county in the lower 48. Yes, we know how to defend ourselves, but we’d rather watch the coming train wreck from a distance than from the station. No matter what happens or doesn’t, it’s a good place to be and a good way to live. placeofrefuge2012.com

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    112. Anon says:

      “How will you protect yourself from heavily armed organized gangs?”
      - It looks like we’re all failures here. Government still exists.

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