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    Congressman Warns: “Those Who Can, Should Move Their Families Out Of the City”

    Mac Slavo
    May 27th, 2011
    SHTFplan.com
    Comments (278)
    Read by 18,459 people

    There are a whole host of events that can bring the world as we know it today to its knees. From a hyperinflationary economic collapse to an electro magnetic pulse originating from the sun or a nuclear weapon , there exists a real and present danger that our system may, in the near future, experience unrecoverable shocks to the power grid and clean water infrastructure, a halt to just-in-time agricultural transportation systems and a collapse of the currency exchange mechanisms that make the economy function.

    US Representative Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD), lived through the great depression, so he’s seen how bad things can get. In a new documentary, Mr. Bartlett and others discuss the dangers posed to those living in cities and ways that your family can survive if the worst were to ever happen.

    Roscoe Bartlett:

    We could have events in the future where the power grid will go down and it’s not, in any reasonable time, coming back up. For instance, if when the power grid went down some of our large transformers were destroyed, damaged beyond use, we don’t make any of those in this country. They’re made overseas and you order one and 18 months to two years later they will deliver it. Our power grid is very vulnerable. It’s very much on edge. Our military knows that.

    There are a number of events that could create a situation in the cities where civil unrest would be a very high probability. And, I think that those who can, and those who understand, need to take advantage of the opportunity when these winds of strife are not blowing to move their families out of the city.

    Source: Urban Danger Movie

    We realize that for most people this may be decried as fear-mongering and crazy survival talk. We can’t help but point out, however, that it’s not just Representative Roscoe Bartlett, economist Marc Faber, and trend forecaster Gerald Celente that are recommending you prepare and head for rural areas. The US Pentagon and Military are very much aware of these possibilities and they’re preparing for exactly the scenarios described in this documentary.

    The threat is out there, and just because it hasn’t happened in our modern-day society up until now doesn’t mean it won’t happen in the future. In fact, it has happened through history – strife, poverty, depression, economic collapse, war. You name it and somebody in history has lived it. The government spends hundreds of billions of dollars on emergency preparedness, disaster planning, continuity of government and war gaming these scenarios. There’s a reason for that. We recommend our readers take a queue from them and others who are warning of these outlier possibilities.

    For a taste of what’s in the movie you can view the first 20 minutes of Urban Danger below:

    View the entire documentary (for FREE) at the Urban Danger web site.
    (Also available on DVD)

    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post
        name:     email:        details

    Author: Mac Slavo
    Views: Read by 18,459 people
    Date: May 27th, 2011
    Website: www.SHTFplan.com

    Copyright Information: Copyright SHTFplan and Mac Slavo. This content may be freely reproduced in full or in part in digital form with full attribution to the author and a link to www.shtfplan.com. Please contact us for permission to reproduce this content in other media formats.

     

    278 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. sanityjones says:

      If you do choose to move to the country, please leave the city in the city where it belongs. Assimilate to country life from the get go and things will be a whole lot easier for you. Country folk don’t mind ignorance so much, but they do mind arrogant assholes.

      People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 40 Thumb down 1

      • Odd Questioner says:

        Agreed, big-time.

        I was raised in a rural environment – I remember my first visit home w/ the family after marrying my first wife. I was astounded at watching my otherwise highly intelligent (ex-)wife act like a complete retard, and promptly anger about half the folks she met due to sheer arrogance (err, her idea of ‘roughing it’ was a three-star hotel suite).

        Unfortunately, there isn’t much I can do about living outside of town, given my profession. OTOH, I have started sniffing around for positions back in my hometown in NW Arkansas.

        That said, it’s pretty surprising the amount of high-end positions that can be had in the area. I can settle for Tulsa, since it’s only 90 min. drive away from home sweet home, or even Joplin (yes, you read that correctly – it’s still a good town w/ good people), but no further south than, say, Ft. Smith, and I sincerely doubt that there’s be anything east of the area, at least all the way to Jonesboro or so.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3

      • SGT ERock45 says:

        second that..

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

      • Cat says:

        +10……

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • Chuck says:

        Totally agree, though never really thought about it before now.

        Couple years ago new(city) people moved in down the road..
        Expected everyone to accommodate them.

        Callin the cops for speeding and target practice.. they can’t tell the difference between semi auto and full auto.. duh
        Bitchin about neighbor kids spinning their tires on the road.
        Nothing the police could do but talk to me and others several times about not intentionally causing problems.

        There literally is a shotgun club east and south of me and rifle ranges west and north of me.
        The people that have lived here for years are just fine with that.

        They were finally evicted two months ago.

        People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1

        • Jonny V says:

          Congratulations on their eviction. Must be nicer around there now without the zombies hanging around. We’ve been lucky here for the most part.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3

        • LEM says:

          I moved from New Jersey to a rural part of PA and I have to say the people are the most miserable, unfriendly people I have ever met!!! I try so hard and they dont want to know you and treat any one that is not a part of their ‘clan’ like dirt…It’s the ‘city’ folk that work hard and keep the economy going… no one up here wants to work and all they do is drink beer and smoke and ride their trucks…. sorry but this outsider has a different perspective on things!

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          • LEM says:

            And talk about Zombies!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It’s the rural folks that are the zombies with cold stone faces and nasty attitudes!!!!!!!!

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 14

          • Jeff says:

            All rural areas are not the same. Maybe you should be looking in the West somewhere?

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          • Samnjoeysgrama says:

            My mother always believed that small towns had personalities. Some were friendly and some were not. I have lived in 6 states in the last 30 years. If you are moving to the country or to a small town, you should rent for a while and make sure it is a good fit for your family. There really are unfriendly places. Some places, if you aren’t the right religion or if you weren’t born there, you will always be an outsider. I have been lucky and lived in great places, but my attitude was always “bloom where you grow” and I know how to mow my own yard and hang my own curtains. If you are dependent on nannies and gardeners, you aren’t going to like the country. Frankly, if you are a sissy of any kind, either male or female, we will laugh at you. Man up or stay in town.

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          • wayne says:

            Sounds like a bunch of Yankees to me. Try Oklahoma for great folks – maybe best on earth. Just don’t talk politics to them – they believe the main stream media- their not to blame, they don’t know any better.

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 5

          • sharonsj says:

            Well, I moved from New York City to rural PA. The people have been friendly, but generally they are not as sharp as city folk. And since I don’t smoke, drink, or own a truck (or do drugs), I don’t socialize much.

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 9

            • Sharon: sounds like fear and a little arrogance thrown in…I was raised in a small town and lived off what we grew and made ourselves. You’ve got to lighten up or you’ll tighten up . Your not socializing, a symptom of fear…

              Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

      • PO'dpatriot says:

        here,here!

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • Rob says:

        VERY good point Sanity…I saw it several times living in a rural community. City dwellers coming up to tell us dumb country hicks how to manage life, but the very things they liked about living in the country, we helped establish…being good neighbors, paricipating in community, and having a safe environment for our kids. I say city dwellers…STAY the HELL out. Thank you.

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    2. Tempest says:

      Roger that.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

    3. VRF says:

      agreed, dont bring your..”this is how we did it in the city” mantality out here…it isnt well recieved

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    4. Phil says:

      I think it’s wonderful they can afford land, solar panels, etc. but did they borrow from the banks? Did they buy this stuff on credit? mortgage? Many of us, especially myself do not have that much “money” on hand to plunk down on land, solar panels, wind mills, trucks etc. I have to save up very carefully and pick equipment and gear that i think are essential.

      Unfortunately, i think 70% of the population are in my boat. What are guys/gals like me to do? What can we do?

      Phil

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      • Odd Questioner says:

        This is probably going to sound like an advertisement, but it isn’t (I haven’t finished the book yet is why).

        I just bought and just started looking through Urban Survival Guide by David Morris. So far, I love the practicality of what I see… it doesn’t go too deep, but does touch on the important bits.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

      • GA Mom says:

        Phil, try to find a partner or two and buy some land together.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

        • No doubt… Three of us are currently looking to pick ourselves up a nice chunk of undeveloped land in Texas, perhaps nw of Austin…. It’s great when you have good friends who think alike… At the very least a piece of land and a hunting cabin as a secondary bugout….These days owner financing is available all over and that keeps it a bit simpler as well….I can certainly understand the monetary issues involved, so if one must stay in the city I think learning about skills specific to urban survival as OQ mentioned is paramount…. If you can stock the food, find available water that you can filter, acquire some self defense armaments and learn to operate on the down-low that’s a good start.

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          • Bill says:

            Did the same thing ten years ago up in Michigan’s upper peninsula. Land was cheap then. It’s gotta be cheaper now. It’s 4 hours away and you have to cross the bridge to get there. That’s the only drawback. We’ll be living there someday anyway. We bought it with several other couples but we ended up buying their share. It was too far out for the other wives in the group. No malls around….

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      • James says:

        Keep an eye out on Craigslst for used Solar Panels.
        I’ve been lucky.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    5. I couldn’t agree more with the posts above.
      I must say however that my best friend now, here in the hills of TN, has turned out to be a family from New Jersey! and big city New Jersey at that! LOL
      i’ve ended up teaching them to garden and now we all work together to grow much of our own food.
      It can work out.

      Love your site BTW.

      pamela

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    6. Chuckles says:

      You almost get the feeling they are trying to warn us about something coming but can’t say to much. Something worse than an economic collapse!

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      • I think you might be on to something with this…. Perhaps something is in the works?? Could be a massive ex-planet event or perhaps even a war, neither of which are outside the realm of possibility

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

        • wayne says:

          A very big War is not far fetched at all, but that would not necessarily require leaving the city. No nation would dare use a nuke or weapon of mass destruction on us, unless we insanely used them first.But considering that we are controlled by Israel, that is a possibility.

          It is best to get in the country, for whatever reason.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

      • Live to Serve says:

        I don’t know about there being something more sinister than an economic collapse… it looked like a pretty old video if you actually watched most of it, so if there was something “big” they were trying to warn us about, it didn’t happen. It is just probably more common sense living – be self sufficient!

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

        • John Galt says:

          Roscoe’s Birthday is tomorrow, 06/03/1926, making him 85 years old. He said in the movie he was 82, so the movie is less than 3 years old.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

      • xroads says:

        “You almost get the feeling they are trying to warn us about something coming but can’t say to much. Something worse than an economic collapse!”
        ___

        That’s the first thing my wife thought. She said what is it he knows but is scared to say.

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        • TexasRedNeck says:

          Massive solar storms are supposed to start hitting earth later this year and getting worse next year, PLUS the comet Elenin is coming and will pass between the earth and the moon, but the scientist are’nt positive about how close it will be to the earth so that’s going to be a HUGE question mark for all of us.People in other parts of the world are spending lots of money on underground bunkers and stock piling supplies not just politicians people from all walks of life are preparing for some earth shattering events that they have some knowledge of that we in this country have not been made aware of for some reason. The UN has been stocking seeds of all types in an underground vault in I believe Norway. Why suddenly has most of the world leaders become intensely interested in survival ? They do know what we have not been told about and will not be told until it is too late for most. Can you imagine what it will be like to live in a world that has suddenly been thrown back in time 200 years ? That’s when the real panic and fear will appear and the chaos begins.

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      • yourdaddy says:

        ..Quite possibly a Brown Dwarf Star (Our Sun’s binary) currently approaching 44 LEO at 2.4 million miles/day. The psyop dis-info credits this “object” to an unknown, Russian using just an 18″ telescope, Leonard ELEnin. “Comet Elenin.”

        If this object has significant mass (i.e. Jupiter’s size) expect this to single handedly turn the Earth upside down…literally.

        Be happy to share more, but figure this one needs it’s own string. Mac?
        Be Good
        Dad

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        • September 26th or 27th, upside down might be literally. The mass this object has and it’s effect on the earth already at the distance it is now compared to September-Nov is scary. It could actually flip the planet or knock it further off it’s axis and totally screw the poles up in a shift……hard telling just exactly how it will effect us

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        • Hey does the name Elenin remind you of any Hollywood movies a few years back??
          I’ll give you a hint……DI

          I don’t believe in coincidences like that….nope, no way

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    7. overtheedge says:

      I seem to recall posting the transformer replacement issues some time back. I am amazed that a politician would openly address the issue.

      Few will listen and take the needed steps to increase their survival quotient.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • fortunateidiot says:

        You’re right on the transformers. It’s actually been discussed in the prepper community for years but went mainstream media news in Aug 2008. Got a couple channels coverage for a day or two then basically died out. It had to do with the rotten infrastructure problem and the chances of Solar Flares on a fragile grid. Went dead when the financial crisis hit.

        As for the few that will listen; this may sound cruel but, that is fine by me. I’ll welcome the few that listened and shun those that didn’t. I stopped telling the masses I know, why they should prep long ago. They have the info, more than most in fact. Should they choose to perish due to ignorance or laziness, it is their choice. While I will grieve for them, I will not feel responsible for their demise.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

      • Cyber_Samurai says:

        What he said about:
        “some of our large transformers were destroyed, damaged beyond use, we don’t make any of those in this country.”

        is not true.

        Here in South Mississippi, one of the largest corporations is Howard Industries. They are a rather large transformer manufacturer. So, yes, in fact, we do make those here in the U.S.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

        • JANE says:

          There are places through out the U.S. that are making transformers. In fact, GE does make transformers.

          Stop giving us excuses. If we don’t make them here, then maybe we should start and transformers are not a high tech item, and it’s old and simple technology, period.

          Since the mainstream media, politicians and biased experts keep warning us, and lecturing about the EMP ATTACKS, so what are they waiting for???

          Besides, the latest transformers are designed to have EMP protection through their shielding.
          ________________________

          It seems the ruling elites are no longer using the U.S. as their home site; I can see they move their headquarters to the UNITED KINGDOM.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

          • Odd Questioner says:

            The technology to make a transformer is pretty simple, actually. It’s a few coils of wire, a large iron core, some insulation, and (in the case of industrial-sized ones), non-conductive cooling fluid.

            Incidentally, the transformers themselves aren’t directly affected by an electromagnetic pulse – transformers blow because of massive inductive overload on the wires coming into it, or because of an unstable grid.

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

          • wayne says:

            The plan, which is well along, is to return America to de facto colonial status: a land of raw materials, agricultural products, cheap labor and cannon fodder in service to Britain and its ruling Jewish financial elite.

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

        • warlock says:

          I agree with you. In Lumberton NC and in Northwestern Tennessee, there are transformer manufacturers. I service and repair CNC machinery in their facilities. I know there are more out there outside of my service area.

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

          • yourdaddy says:

            Yep. ABB manufacturers both pole top units (Jefferson City) and Padmounts (Pittsburgh).

            We sell 1000′s of units overseas each and every year. Typical lead-times are 8-10 weeks.

            However, when you start talking about “sub-stations” (the large set-ups you usually see adjacent to highways) then 12-18 months is not out of the question.

            -Dad

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

        • NunJoBizness says:

          Cyber – just curious, but wasn’t Howard Industries the plant that got raided for hiring illegals? Once they got the boot it opened up over 600 new jobs for Americans. Hopefully they have not continued to hire illegals…

          Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

          • wayne says:

            Damn those American employees – they cost too much and expect rights – definitely not suitable for colonial status. so they must be replaced.

            Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

    8. It’s a no wonder people think automatically that people in the country will have food i.e. all the references by people to the golden horde if a shtf scenario happens
      It’s documentaries like these that just fuel that

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    9. justindearmond says:

      anyone have any thoughts of staying in smaller cities during and after disaster/collapse, i live in manhattan ks 25000 people when the students are gone(KSU campus is here) but has many small satellite cites ie keats wamego riley, these are small rural villages really <3000 people and many cases much smaller. i think these are ideal for survival living far from big cities (KC and wichita are over 130 miles in either direction) and not too far from smaller cities like manhattan and salina or even topeka, where supplies could be found at a later time. lots of farm land lakes and streams out rural kansas which i believe will be ideal and the locals already have some infastructure in place that is off grid ie farmers markets and barter communities. any thoughts anyone???

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

      • Anonymous says:

        Build hide’ie space from twisters. Peabody is a nice town too.

        Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

      • Nothing wrong with finding a nice plot of land near a smaller city, especially if it’s o ff the beaten path away from major highways.. In my opinion, there are solid security benefits with this strategy…. The book Lights Out provides an excellent fictional reference for this, as opposed to full-out rural living where your nearest neighbor may be a mile away… Unless you plan on having a group of skilled individuals who are capable of patrolling 24hrs a day as well as keeping up with all of the other survival tasks one may be faced with if the shtf, then a community in a smaller city, town or village may not be such a bad idea.

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    10. We just had a birthday party for my daughter last weekend–and my jerk of a brother-in-law that lives in the city spent the whole time bashing small towns and the people that live in it. He insulted my husband who’s been going deer hunting for “killing those poor helpless animals” and then bragged about how he “gardens”. Ummm…planting petunias in a couple of window boxes does not mean you’re a gardener. He kinda shut up about the gardening part though, after seeing our garden, the blueberry and raspberry bushes, the strawberry plants, and the dozen various fruit trees planted out back.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

    11. Just me says:

      most people in the cities and many in the country don’t pay attention to anything going on except who Trump fires and who’s on dancing with the stars. Ask anyone you know if they heard the tape of Bill Clinton talking with Paul Ryan on the Qt.Ask anyone of them if they know we’re in Libya and why we’re there.Many city people don’t even know the price of gas as they don’t have to buy it, they take the bus or use a cab.People are clueless and they’re the ones that will starve within weeks.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

    12. NOYB says:

      At what point do you start using reverse psychology to keep small towns and farming communities from being flooded by clueless yuppies, with no survival skills and entirely the wrong attitude?

      If the past four years of economic grief were not enough to wake people up, and preppers are still painted as wackos, maybe it’s time to plant stories of failure to keep the weak out of the woods, so to speak.

      I don’t mind new neighbors, but if it took more than a 2×4 upside the head to get their attention, maybe that neighbor isn’t going to be good news after all.

      Rate This Comment: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    13. MSH says:

      I cannot move my family.
      Finances are as stretched as they get. I have not lived the wealthy American dream. My cars are payed for yes. But they are 10 to 25 years old. Gas and rent, insurance, toiletries, utilities, and internet eat every penny I make now.
      The state and charities help with food and medical (something I avoided most of my life till recently). I have Zero room for incidentals. I no longer have to worry about the selfishness of $1 Redbox rentals once in a while for my family since that does not fit even an imaginary budget.
      I ware old clothes as I have for most of my adult life, because I am tall and require special sizes. People like me ware them until they fall apart. So you don’t find them in thrift stores and Prop outlets.
      I have not taken a vacation since 1999. And that was an overnite hotel stay with my wife of 13 years last December.
      I have taken my kids for daddy daughter dates. I now think what If I could go back in time and save that money I selfishly enjoyed spending on my family outings. Maybe I could have rent and not be under a hundred dollars short. This will be the first time I miss rent here. And I half way through my second rent agreement that went up in price by $80.
      That just eats in a little more. I feed my household of 4 on a bit over $300 EBT a month and what extra is left over from bills.
      I say let them bomb us into oblivion so my kids don’t know homelessness for the second time.
      Now here is the clincher. I work 40-50 hours a week (52 this week) and have not even missed a day of work in 2 years. I get no vacation pay or holiday pay. So holidays are stressful and hurt financially. Instead of enjoying Memorial Day this year, I will be thinking of how I won’t make rent on Tuesday.
      I am trying to decide which of my things I can pawn and maybe put off my failure as a human being to my family for one more month.
      I would like to move my family to safety. But if someone could explain to me what safety looks like, that would be a start.
      I believe in hard work, and try to teach my kids. nothing comes without work. My wife is college educated and holds a degree in education. She can’t get work while schools are operating without licensed teachers locally. And they won’t hire her because MN is one of 4 states that requires more then she has a degree for. But they use people with no degree for teaching in any state to be subs and fillins. WTF?
      I am lost. I am tired enough to just give up and let them kill me and my family. I own no guns and don’t want to. If a bat won’t do. They win.
      Good luck to you who can. I am glad that someone can get out.
      Peace and safety

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      • Odd Questioner says:

        Hope you can get beyond the mess.

        I know that I’ve worked some really crap jobs before in my life when things got tough, sometimes two jobs at a time (with the other part-time job being something way unglamorous, like fast food or dishwashing, etc). You do what’s necessary, even if it sucks.

        My heart goes out to you – this life thing definitely isn’t easy. One question I have, though… you mention that your missus can’t get a job as a licensed teacher because the local district hires unlicensed/un-degreed teachers, but at the same time requires more than she has? “WTF?” is an understatement.

        I remember that Utah once had a program where they pulled in folks experienced in certain subject matters and gave them a provisional license – I was one of those people, and came in from the IT world to teach CompSci as an associate professor. OTOH, I was given a very short time to rack up at least 17 credit-hours of coursework (at my own expense :/ ) in educational topics (I didn’t major in education, obviously) …and that was only a start. The Board of Regents and USOE was downright evil about CE credits after that.

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      • Jim says:

        At least you have work. I have a BA and McDonald’s didn’t even take me during their hiring day.

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      • GA Girl says:

        I am praying for you. Give your life and all it’s broken pieces to God. Let Him make it new. He has an answer, a plan. Don’t think I don’t know what you are talking about. We are a family of 5 and hubby works 2, sometimes 3 jobs. But God provides, in amazing ways. Often ways I wouldn’t have dreamed. Ask Him to show you what to do. Pray in the stuff/supplies you need. You would be amazed. I am thankful to be in a small town. But we also lack the funds to do the stuff I would love to do to prepare. So, I do what I can. Small steps will hopefully lead to bigger steps, etc. The Lord helps me get really good deals on smaller stuff. I would love to have solar panels, etc. but not yet. I give you my word that I will remember you in prayer and believe God to provide things you need. When you recieve them, remmeber to thank Him. Don’t overlook the little things.

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        • Anon. says:

          God put us here and gave us a big brain to use. Sitting back and waiting for Him to bail you out of your bad decisions is like waiting for the government to hand you a million tax free. Use that brain the way it was meant to be used and stop looking for the impossible. God didn’t intend for us to be lazy or irrational, He wants us to use the gifts He has given us to their best advantage. Most of all, he does not intend for us to hold on to counterproductive beliefs thousands of years old that only impede our progress toward the ultimate — oneness with HIM. He created all of these natural and scientific wonders for us to investigate and marvel at. The entire Universe is a strange and marvelous place that we should spend our lives trying to understand and learn more about. This means lifelong education in everything. Anyone who is too lazy to do this doesn’t deserve His Grace or anything else.
          When we have accomplished all of this, we will then deserve all of the gifts that He might bestow upon us.
          There is a solution to every problem, and our job is to search diligently for every possible solution and then to select the best possible one. Prayer should be focused upon helping us to find our way, rather than expecting him to treat us like a bunch of three-year-olds providing us with all of the necessities in life without any further expectations of us.

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          • Nendianae says:

            Sounds like you’re still trying to earn your salvation by works.

            For the record, NONE of us deserves God’s grace, and we never will. Your statement, “When we have accomplished all of this, we will then deserve all of the gifts that He might bestow upon us” is pure nonsense. Nothing you can do can *EARN* you God’s gifts. (Then they wouldn’t be gifts anyways!)

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          • Odd Questioner says:

            @Nendianae:

            IMHO, both should be required – faith without works is a lie to the faith, and works without faith does nothing for the soul.

            Otherwise, agreed perfectly – no one “deserves” God’s grace, yet He loves us enough to grant it upon request.

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          • Mike says:

            Hey, welcome to my world rofl,

            all you can do is be happy that the days over,
            instead of working at mc d’s iv gotta carry bricks and mix cement all day, now thats not my idea of a good time..

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      • Cyber_Samurai says:

        Sounds to me like you’ve got nothing left to lose! Grab some essentials and LEAVE that place. There ARE places in this country you can work and live cheaper. You just have to get past the “I just can’t leave” syndrome. Look, first, at different parts of the country you think you would like to move to. Do a little research. Then, apply for jobs in those areas. I know if you are willing to work the kind of hours you work now where I live, you can live very well. You may have to work a job you don’t care for, but you can make a very good living in some places. Jobs are hard to come by in some areas, easier in others. Moving might be exactly what you need, though. Some people step out on faith and move, and find themselves waaaay better off. Just keep going.
        God Bless You.

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        • MSH says:

          I have done that.
          I have moved for work many times.
          I have been homeless a couple times when I was single for short periods.
          I have no problem with the “have to’s”.
          I have buried my mother, brother and stepfather. I had taken over the house my parents had before my mother died, my stepdad had remarried, and was just making ends meet. I worked while my wife went to college. When I was home I took care of the kids and cleaned. When she finished school she worked for 2 years. Then the state went into proration and let all newer teachers go. I was in the south at the time and worked for a tour/festival light and sound company. I would work from 80-120 hours a week on festivals and side work when available. It wasn’t constant work, but it provided enough to pay the bills, on top of playing church gigs and clubs. When I didn’t have those I sold cars at 60-72 hours a week. I do what I “have to”.
          When cancer took my stepdad summer of 09′, his papers were a mess. Insurance was not enough to bury him. We had been giving him the money to pay the mortgage since thats how he wanted it. His wife had used it to pay on the funeral expenses as well. She was grieving and didn’t think. Next thing we know the bank wants 2 payments and a 3rd not to far behind that. We contacted them about the GAP policy on the mortgage my stepdad had told me about. They said it did not exist. Then after they lost the Death Certificate 3 times, they were foreclosing.
          The property was only worth $14,000 and the balance due was $28,000. No bank would make a loan that upside down. My family lost alot. (Turns out they did have a policy and it was with their own insurance) None of it needed to happen this way.
          I moved 1200 miles north and found a job and band. so I got 40+ hours in 2 1/2 days doing security and learned 50 new songs while living in a basement corner for 3 months. My family stayed behind during that time. Plus one of my nephews overdosed and died during this time. I could not go to the funeral because I wanted my family back with me. So I did what I “had to do”. My cars engine blew the first week I was there. So I caught rides and taxi’s to and from work.
          It was a very emotional time for all of us.
          I got an apartment and bought a ticket back to move my family in November of 09. My truck was supposed to be running and ready for northern weather. Nope. Mechanic forgot to fix the transfer case and stopped after the transmission. But he charged us full price though. No time and no money to fight them I had 2 days to get the Ryder packed and truck on a trailer and my wife followed in the one good car we had. I had to be back in time to work, do a gig and unload the truck. No stopping overnight. We packed our food.
          It took all we had to get up north.
          When we got back we found out the bank bounced my deposit and rent checks by mistake while I was gone. They were sorry but I still had a $200 per check penalty for the apartment to cover ($400). That was on our wedding anniversary. I quit smoking that day to as a gift to my wife. So you can imagine my stress. I don’t care about a glamourous job. I care a bout being paid anymore. I have been charged back on hours from my job because they couldn’t get their paper work straight. I would have to wait a couple of months to be reimbursed while they figured what went wrong.
          Meanwhile the expenses don’t wait.
          Wish I could give god much credence. I have been a christian most of my life. And I have heard the whole “God helps those who help themselves” thing. Very unbiblical and not even a verse to support it. God has been sitting back and taking a break in that case. It was my work and sacrifice that has given me anything I have. And the charity of my wife’s aunt at desperate times. Its called being human. Even atheist do this. Charity is a state of mind, not religion.
          My wife managed to find my girls their own beds and drawers for the bedroom they share for almost nothing this spring. Thats a big thing to me.
          Ego is not something I have any room for since my mother was an addict. I have nervous issues from birth and when she tried to smother me over a divorce I picked up some sleeping issues and untreated PTSD. My sister saved me from that one. Mom failed the next 2 times she tried as I was growing up.
          So non glamourous, sweaty, degrading work and living are par for the course.
          I am just tired. And my kids have done nothing to deserve what their generation is being handed. I have voted and been active in calling my congressmen and Senators. And I can tell you that when we are told to just leave the cities? By who? A congressmen?
          I know it was for nothing. Its over with. Where do you retreat to when the Government owns everything and says run?
          My girls don’t even know what it is to go on a “family” vacation. To them its daddy stays home to work, while Mom takes them to see her family in Alabama. Her aunt normally covers expenses.
          Praying is just an outlet for stress. God is not a granter of wishes or blessing for being a good little kid. If that were the case. He has failed every martyr including his own son.
          I am researched out. I just want to cover my bills and finish recording my own music before I have to sell the studio to cover bills. There is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. So may as well enjoy the pretty colors while they last.
          I have had to sell my car to help my dad bury my mother and cover other expenses in 99′ and I have no problem letting go of possessions to make ends meet. Never said it doesn’t hurt.
          And the strange part is that I am living the best I have ever lived. I can’t remember a better time.
          And here we are.
          How did this become an acceptable way to live? It didn’t even dawn on me that its not normal for most people to live with this level of high stress and tension, let alone live through it, till the last 6 years.
          I just don’t want to fight this hard for every little thing that most take for granted when they think have it tough.
          I can actually say I will watch in peace as the ground opens up and swallows us. Or the mushroom cloud rushes toward us, or the angry city dwellers overtake my household because they assume I am a well off white man that has oppressed them. To be freed from this cycle of life may be painful in its transition but worth it.
          If God is anything more then an observer and tally keeper over us, he has failed. Success and abundance are not a measure of his presence. If that were the case, then Wall St and Washington are the Saints of old and we are all pagan slaves to be done with as they please. So please don’t make God out to be something he is not.
          He is all I believe in outside of my family anymore to comfort me that any of this is worth it anymore.
          Peace and Safety to you as you run to the hills.

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      • MSH says:

        I might add that I made rent. I had something of value to cover it Thats good.

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      • guest says:

        MSH ..probably by now half america can identify with you. Let’s face it..(i live in city) even those who have been able to stock and prepare are going to be in for a rude awakening.I doubt if the thousand’s of dollars my husband and i have spent on food items..kersene.propane.cooking stoves..tent’s.camper.tools.will sustain us. Too many will come after it and we can’t shoot everyone..i don’t want to harm a fly.Even in good properous times things left out in yard is stolen. And gas from our car along with a wire from our popup trailer that another helped themselves to. And we live in good part of town. What it has boiled down to.God promises.’Seek first the Kingdom of God and all these thing’s(shelter,food,clothing0 shall be added to you. God will take care and provide for you and your family.I will pray for you and your family. And the hard work and values you taught your family is far more valuable than money.

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      • LISA says:

        YOUR WIFE NEEDS TO GET A JOB SOMEWHERE AND NOT WORRY ABOUT HER DEGREES, ETC. KIDS CAN WORK POSSIBLY STARTING AT 14 – WHERE I LIVE, MY DAUGHTER CAN AND WANTS TO START WORKING THIS SUMMER.

        MAY NOT BE THE BEST SCENARIO BUT SORRY YOU CAN’T SUPPORT 4 PEOPLE BY YOURSELF – YR WIFE NEEDS TO GET UP AND CLEAN HOUSES, WORK AT MCD’S – SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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      • Mickey, pureenee. says:

        Oh I feel so sad for you that I have to say something. I can appreciate how you feel. My husband has worked so hard all his life and we just about lost everything, I mean everything and I know with out God in our lives everything will look hopeless. i have learnt so much from Seventh-Day Adventist’s, they are a helpful bunch. We see prophecy unfold right before our eyes. Get them to help you study your bible. Jesus is our help in time of need. thre is a Great Contraversy going on and you need to find out for yourself. Life this side of Heaven is not a piece of cake, no punn intended. Really studying Gods word has given us hope, to keep trying please don’t give up thre is hope for us in Jesus. Pray that God will reveal himself to you and your family, you owe it to your kids. Yes there are so many religions out there, find out from the Seventh-Day Adventist, why and what is truth. They preach straight from the Bible. God Bless you, I am Praying for you and your family.

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      • captinkirk says:

        I understand your situation,been there.
        What saved me was starting slowly self employment.
        We all have skills that many may not or would rather
        pay you to do.Think about who your market/demographics is. Get out and meet as many people as you can. Churches/county or city clubs, I’ll leave the rest up to your knowledge of your area. Once money comes in, don’t spend it on items like games/new hubcaps ect. Plan 6 months finances and move out where your wife’s skills will be employed. It may take a least two years to do this depending on what you do for weekend self employment. Learn from books how to install shingles on a roof/clean gutters for elderly or wealthy home owners ect. Don’t give up, keep your marriage together at all costs, as you both need each other….

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    14. Raypc800 says:

      Well now if anyone would know about how bad things might get and have gotten A Republican should know for it has been their 35 some years of trickle down policies that has brought the USA down.

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      • Jonny V says:

        You’re right about the trickle down policies. Profit placed before all else has lead straight to the collapse of the USA, no question about it. Democrats went right along with it too, so even though it was a republican idea, they had help in bringing us down. They’re not the only ones…….

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        • double wit says:

          you two still don’t get it (johnny V you rarely do)….trickle down does work when everyone plays by the same rules and the failures are allowed to fail. We haven’t had true “trickle down” (free market capitalism) for decades upon decades. We have crony capitalism where those with the biggest pocket books and the most connections are being legislated others wealth via non competes, certifications fees, fines, regulations, etc, etc. They are all there to stifle competition of a true free market, if you can pay the “bribes” you secure safety and insurance from failure. You believe the lies you are told by those creating bogie men to keep you looking the other way while they rob you blind.

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          • Mak63 says:

            double wit – Ditto’s dude. Thing is GREED knows no party, republican/democrat/libertarian. Those of us that make the country work need to replace the ruling elite through votes and voices……… but be ready if the SHTF. God, guns, gold/silver and stock up on some food.

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      • wayne says:

        The only thing trickling down from Republicans is piss. Democrats aren’t much better either.

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    15. Kevin says:

      When cities provided real jobs producing goods for market they we’re viable places to live. If a significant percentage of the population become wards of the state then disaster is just around the corner. I look at Camden NJ as being ahead of the curve. They predated the economic decline with the demise of the NY Ship Yard, RCA and Campbell Soup three plus decades ago. If they are any indication of post industrial America you could not be far enough away. The urban rot was mitigated by a relatively vibrant County, State and Federal government to pick up the pieces. Now it’s everyone for them self. The decay will accelerate and the bottom will be lower. The thought of lower than Camden is a vision they make movies out of; horror movies.

      We’re all going to back slide as the haves drop and the have nots climb.

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      • Odd Questioner says:

        You want a good, hard scare? Study Detroit sometime.

        *shudder*

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        • The wave of the future…. In my view, Detroit across the entire country is the most likely 1st step to an eventual total collapse of the system…. A prolonged depressionary environment is in our future, I think. The book American Apocalypse (part 1) by Nova deals with this type of scenario… Limited law and order, but a situation getting progressively worse.

          In terms of economic collapse, my biggest concern would be the inevitable sovereign debt crisis coming our way… The timeline is impossible to predict, of course, but my feeling is sometime over the course of the next decade, perhaps sooner, within a few years…. A dollar collapse would be a very bad thing and how we come out of the ‘crunch’ is totally unpredictable…

          Then there are all t he other variables out there that could lead to teotwawki in a period of days rather than months….. I don’t try to fear monger here, but it is what it is… Plus, I find it personally fulfilling to contemplate these ideas, and to spend my time and energy addressing any issues that come up…

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          • sean says:

            and who lives in detroit?if they cant steal it, fuck it, or eat it they destroy it,fact!

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          • double wit says:

            I live in metro area of Detroit. While there are dangerous areas in the city proper for sure, its not like a war zone..its more like the apocalypse came and went and all that’s left are skeletons of once grand buildings, wild dogs and tumbleweeds. Its much more eerie and surreal than dangerous

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          • Loki says:

            I am an LA Riots Vet.
            Ca Army National Guard, sorry we weren’t there earlier, but the Gov had his thumb too far up his ass to deploy us in a more expediate fashion.

            The place was total KAOS ! I had 10 year old, 12 year olds boys, girls telling me that there would be a drive by and I had a target on my head. I would put the red dot there for them and challenge any “Native” to a gun fight. No takers of course…

            Daytwois (Detroit) is one Police Brutality incident away from going DEFCON 1. Then it will rapidly spread nation wide. As an active duty soldier, we trained for scenarios such as this, and no quarter was given.

            Stand and Fight ! Born with a Heart of Steel !
            Manowar !

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          • stealth says:

            Hey Mac have you read “Reinventing Collapse” by Dmitry Orlov?

            http://www.amazon.com/Reinventing-Collapse-Example-American-Prospects/dp/0865716064

            Interesting reading, why do so many think it can’t happen here?

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        • VRF says:

          I got out of there back in 89-90, and it was bad than..I have been there lately (buisness)..Wow, what an eye opener..Like i said it was bad when i left..I dont even know what to call it anymore.
          The Corrunption and Gov. Money that got squandered and the decay because of the corruption, is everywhere and ingrained it is buisness practices to the core..In a SHTF senario..its the last place you would want to be anywhere within 200 miles from, unfortunately..thats the whole state surrounding it

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        • wayne says:

          I spent a day there driving around in a nice new convertible and talking to people. Everyone was amazed that I survived that. But here is the deal. Some of the blacks are racists and have been burning out the whites now for decades. Vacant lots about everywhere and on some blocks they amount to 75% of the land. There had been houses, but they were burned down. The police and fire departments don’t respond because it is too dangerous. It is open season on whitey. I am lucky I got out alive.

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      • Mak63 says:

        Kevin………. 50%+ of Americans don’t pay income tax…… how is that NOT a ward of the state? WE’RE THERE!!!

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    16. @ Just me

      Already told my husband that his brother and family were not welcome. He agreed.

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    17. Jonny V says:

      We can all see this coming. One of the other sites I look at has people talking about forming “MAG’s” (mutual assistance group). This might be the only way us rural people can repel the golden hordes. The infrastructure has to be in place first, you won’t be able to get rid of the big city assholes on the spur of the moment, there will be too many of them.

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      • Jonny, while you probably don’t want to share your prep activities with any of your neighbors now (unless you know they are preppers) I think setting up a MAG would be one of the very first things to do once it becomes clear that the shtf.

        I really like this concept and it’s one I will certainly be exploring as part of my overall shtf plan.

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        • Durango Kidd says:

          Mac: There does need to be a general set of universal rules that can be applied to a MAG based upon Constitutional precedents and the needs of the group. Extended families and/or mulitple familes are probably best but singles need a MAG too.

          This is something that I have considered for some time and have collected some examples of “community”. I just don’t have the time personally to put it together.

          Everyone might consider a few ideas and forward them to you for synthesis at your “leisure”. :-)

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          • Jonny V says:

            The example I saw was set up in a quasi-military/police type mold. It was on “whenshtf.com” (I think…). Some of them thought it worked, but there were big problems with sexual infidelity within the group, and other problems as well. It seems like the group broke up, but I might be wrong. i like the concept, but you’d have to be very vigilant to ensure that no slackers make it into the group. Lots of people will go to a meeting, very few will charge out of the meeting and go to work.

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      • Loki says:

        I try very hard to inform people of the Fecal Storm, but of course I get the Sheeple Grin.
        The 2 Turds that work for see all the “Stuff” I have, they have heard my speeches, I have given the info, videos, books, printed out articles from here and other places, and yet they graze.

        Their reply is ” I will just come here, you have enough supplies for 4 people for more than a year”

        Uhhhh ! Wrong answer ASS EYES ! Looters will be shot !
        Each of them have 4+ kids, I have 3 couples with no kids contributing to the stock, and 1 family of 4 across the street, he has an amazing supply of “Black Guns” so he is in for sure ! Thinking about bringing the Mormon Family into the loop, only because of their expertise in canning and planning.

        The MAG’s idea ROCKS ! I would like to contact people in the Palm Springs, CA area for a a meet up.

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        • Jonny V says:

          http://www.whenshtf.com/showthread.php?36927-Starting-a-MAG&highlight=mutual+assistance+group

          Loki and Mac, you can check out the link here. It’s the forum discussion I was talking about. These guys seem to have a pretty good handle on the priorities, of course, your group will be suited to your needs.

          I don’t see how the zombies can be repelled from an area without an active MAG type presence. I would hesitate to be involved in any kind of “militia” however. Militia’s tend to attract a lot of attention from the FBI (among others), and also a bunch of skinheads too. I’m more interested in being in a group to prepare for various disasters but without the political or racial business of a militia.

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          • Jonny V says:

            After reading through that again, there are some problems with MAG’s to seriously consider first too.

            1. Sexual infidelity within the group. Seems to have happened to these folks.
            2. Local law enforcement finds out about you (some idiot in the group decides that it “couldn’t hurt” to tell his cop buddies) and your group just became target #1 for a SWAT raid or looting immediately after the SHTF.
            3. Group could be too militaristic. Lots of type A personalities with preppers. Peoples feelings are bound to get hurt, and they will doubtlessly seek retaliation.

            In all, your best bet might your family. All others must be considered untrustworthy until proven otherwise. Setting one of these up looks like a lot of trouble, and people’s motivation might be too low pre-SHTF.

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          • What does MAG stand for?

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          • Strider says:

            When SHTF I wouldn’t want to own the life insurance policy on any federal goon — FBI, ATF, TSA, DEA, CIA, FEMA, or any of the others. When the system collapses their badges will no longer carry any authority or invoke any fear — see the scene in V for Vendetta when the Fingerman kills the little girl. Then they will be hunted down and slaughtered with unprecedented ferocity, no quarter given. Either that, or 10-20% will be killed and the rest will resign en masse.

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    18. anonymous6.8 says:

      Rattlesnake Gulch might be the most beautiful place between the two oceans. Canny people who live there don’t want tourist busses pulling up. Hence the name. City folk showing up with an “I”m entitled” attitude and appetite, short of skills or supplies should expect to meet hot lead.

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    19. Eric says:

      This is all fine and dandy but unless you have significant farming skills, alternative energy, land, and resources to just move is almost more dangerous. When this happens the clueless zombies who do survive will be going out to the rural areas seeking places to survive and loot. You would also have to have significant guns and ammo and other like minded people to defend your home. Without all this you are just as screwed in my view. I would rather band together with neighbors you can trust.

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      • Doug says:

        You’re absolutely right, Eric. Before one moves to a rural area, he/she should know someone there who is respectable and can guide you in your new surroundings. And a rural area doesn’t necessarily mean that food will be available. Many rural people are poor and live on government checks rather than produce their own food. They will be stealing from their neighbors – and you if you become their neighbor. Best to stay where you have a network of relatives and friends.

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      • Kat says:

        There is a movement of people all over the country to revive Victory Gardens of the Depression and WWII eras. You don’t have to have a big piece of land and you don’t have to move out into the tulies (no offence) to grow your own food. There are loads of folks that are doing what they can to be prepared in their own homes where they are. Quietly doing what they can to take care of themselves and put aside for them and their families with what they have and where they are is good. In suburbia, you can do a great deal under the radar so to speak, with a couple of chickens and some planters or beds full of veggies and fruit trees. That’s what I’m doing. I can’t afford to sell off what I have, so I intend to change what I have now to do provide mcuh of what we need.

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    20. James Woroble Jr says:

      It’s a very clever trick.

      He wants to fear-monger all the White Americans to leave the cities so he and his small group of friends can share exclusively and totally in all the ‘blessings of diversity’.

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    21. Elvinism says:

      The civil war ended how many years ago? The problem with our country is all those who judge & criticize people based on where they live or where they were forced to be raised. Can’t we all just grow up & get along?

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    22. MIVidaLoca says:

      We’re trying to sell our house now – it’s been an uphill battle because the market is so bad. I try to be positive about it but it doesn’t look like we will be able to sell it for enough money so we can move to the country, our dream for quite a while.

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    23. Lostwages says:

      I live in the mountains of Northern California. A little town of about 3000 people. I get a real kick out of the flat landers that come around in the summer time. You can always tell who they are by the way they push and shove in the stores and gas station. We don’t count on much from the government, i have a well, a back up generator, some live stock, a garden, a gun or two, fishing equipment, medical gear, and plenty of propane bottles that I keep full, plus a wood stove with a oven on top of the fuel box and plenty of wood. I also have fruit and walnut trees and learned how to can, so I can stock pile my food. I need to learn how to smoke fish and meats…but I heard their hard to light! LOL! I think the biggest worry us country folks face is fighting off the cities and flat landers that come round trying to take what doesn’t belong to them after the bad event happens! But I guess that’s what the dogs and guns are for! That and the deer and wild turkeys!

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    24. fred says:

      This kind of reminds me of that book… “The Stand”.. seems like a good time to find oneself a group that one kan belong to and brainstorm on how to prepare and on what needs to be done.
      Fred.
      PS: N.Dakota sounds more inviting every day…

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    25. fred says:

      I had this reocurring dream several years ago.. it was this scene where I was living in this old school bus with hundreds of other people.. each living in their own bus… there might have been several hundred school busses in this dream.. each with its own family.. all living like gypsys.. I never could figure out just why I was having such a strange dream…now it seems very apparent…
      Fred.

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    26. fred says:

      Has anybody else had a simular dream or mental immage..?
      Maybe it was a sign.. and now we all find ourselves here together at this web site…..
      Fred.

      PS: Too bad.. because I love Las Vegas… “but farm livin is the life for me…”

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    27. fred says:

      last time I checked.. you could buy yourself a good used school bus in almost perfect condition for less then $4,000.00….

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      • Cyber_Samurai says:

        There’s one down the road from my house for sale for $5500. However, I bet if you handed them $4000-$4500 cash, they’d probably take it.

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      • wayne says:

        I had a vivid dream of a mushroom cloud over the Los Angeles harbor.

        Better get some good insulation for those buses.

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    28. laura m. says:

      Many retirees (and average working folks) cannot relocate anywhere. Many are living payday to payday, and some have houses paid for in cities like me, and are sick and tired of moving as they have moved enough over their lifetimes. Women living alone need to band together with a group for safety. other retirees need to go near their families.

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    29. GA Mom says:

      Oddly enough I spoke to a friend yesterday who lives in NYC. I was encouraging him to pay attention to warning signs so he could leave early and I told him he should have mulitple routes thought out.

      He sadly said that if it came to that he knew he’d never get out – he said there’s just too many people there.

      There are a lot of good people in cities. If they show up peacefully at your door you can always put them to work – free labor for food & shelter. Plus they could help you defend your property. We must do everything we can to help our fellow man if the shtf.

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      • Just me says:

        too many people

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        • Just me says:

          to many people and too many bridges to cross to get out, they’re screwed,a boat docked on the East or Hudson river would be the only chance.

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          • Anonymous says:

            A blue water sailboat (very large fuel/H20 tank”s”) with a diesel engine and large box of tacks coated with dead chicken guts. 40 foot of water line, nice to be makin waves. Don’t worry these wheat thins crunch sticks will save you. Did I mention the weapons?

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      • Just me says:

        “”There are a lot of good people in cities. If they show up peacefully at your door you can always put them to work – free labor for food & shelter. Plus they could help you defend your property. We must do everything we can to help our fellow man if the shtf.”””

        one thing to think about when taking someone in, everyone has close family and close friends, you take in one person and you’re giving away some of your preps, you still may survive til the person you take in has some of their friends or relatives show up,and then some of their friends and family show up, you could be putting your family at risk.Hungry people will take what they want and their friends will side with them.

        personally I have my short list of close family, everyone else can keep on trucking, depending on how severe the situation is, if near the end of growing season, we’re on rations til the next season, if it’s the start of the season, we may share some beans,dandoline greens, corn bread.we’ll be living bare bones when someone is around.

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      • Live to Serve says:

        Agreed… this is the best response to a shtf situation.

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    30. Daisy says:

      I live in a city of about 130,000 people. It isn’t ideal but it’s where my job is. I am a single mom in an apartment. Sometimes we just have to make the best of things – “bloom where you’re planted” so to speak. We chose our rental for the ease of defensibility. We have a vegetable garden and we test our “off grid” survival skills by having weekends without power. We have food and supplies set aside, we learn as much as we can and we’ve found nearby sources of water, etc.

      Be at peace, do what you can do in the situation you are given, and watch for the improvements that you can make within your budget. Knowledge is power and you can acquire a whole lot of that for free.

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    31. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress says:

      I live in the foothills in a rural subdivision. Lots of yuppies and Bay Area types. Further up the road it is even more rural and mountainous and lots of survivalist types to the point that it is scary to drive out there even now. I think that those that believe country living equals security are being overly optimistic. When the SHTF there will be plenty of violence and mayhem in the country too. Those that work in the city but live out here, the yuppies, will not necessarily be more prepared because they live in the country. They will be a threat to those of us who also live in the country and are prepared and have food stored. And the survivalist types that live further out in the countryside scare me more than the the yuppies do because they are armed and have the attitude that everyone is a target when the SHTF. I forsee them eventually killing each other but in the meantime foraging/hunting and trying to live off the land would be an extremely bad idea. It will be dangerous everywhere when the SHTF.

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      • hertosexual FLAMER says:

        I agree Moon. But we won’t hear about “some” of them until they are checked in on and the people checking in on them are shot at and the game begins.
        “Some” of these people think they are the minority or majority, they’re not sure which. A “few” will get the “world is ending” news, lose power or net and starting blasting. Most will probably be gay lovers that lose their other.

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      • Cyber_Samurai says:

        “I forsee them eventually killing each other”

        Do you “forsee” the masses in the cities killing each other off? I see the rural survivalists leaving each other alone for the most part.

        Glad I live in South Mississippi. We’re not just rural. Rural CAN mean “living in the sticks without contact with the outside world.” Around here, “rural” means “living in the sticks with family and friends. We work together as a matter of course.”

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        • Chris says:

          We pulled together to survive after Katrina. We shared resources like food and watter after the storm. My neighbor had to come over to fuel my generator a few times and we took turns keeping watch at night.

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          • wayne says:

            I lived near the epicenter of the big Northridge quake and we lost all power and utilties for about three days. It was adjacent to a bad neighborhood, but many of us in the condo complex banded together and built a fire in the parking lot and I stood guard with rifles. I am sure others had pistols in their pockets. We had enough food for three days. Others isolated in their units and did not come out. The gang bangers stayed away, which was very wise of them. I would have blown them away.

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      • Odd Questioner says:

        @Moon (BTW – always good to meet a fellow Heinlein fan :) )…

        Solid point. I see similar where I am. I rent a place on the outskirts of the Portland area, and most of the folks there are more centered around high tech than in keeping their powder dry. Many of my neighbors are recent immigrants from India, Russia, etc – mixed bag, though, since some may be used to privation and hardship back in their home countries.

        OTOH, most of them would simply have their brains short-out if/when a SHTF situation occurs. I’m really wanting to fix this situation (mostly by moving further away from town. I’d kill to be able to move back to my hometown, but lacking that, you do what you can’ y’know? :) ).

        Anyway, back to the topic – I figure most of them would have, 12 months later, done one of four things:

        1) killed each other off somehow(most of these folks are scared of firearms, so I think they’ll avoid the one unit in my building that contains the one family -the missus and I- who has and uses guns.)

        2) got the hell out of dodge, on foot or bicycle if they had to.

        3) starved to death.

        4) migrated to a government-run camp.

        But, like I said, some of the Russian and Indian families will likely make out okay for the most part. The neo-hippies and new-agers? Not so much.

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    32. Red Cross Volunteer says:

      We who live in Alabama just got a glimse of what is being discussed in this article when the April 27, 2011 tornadoes ravaged most of northern part of the state. Our whole county and those around us went without power for five or more days. Glad I’ve been paying attention and was prepared for it, unlike so many others. I sailed through it and had electricity, gas, water and plenty of food. As a disaster volunteer at the local red cross, I spent several days working the phones at the disaster services office in our chapter and was totally stunned by the numerous calls coming in, from those who suffered no tornado losses, but only losses due to the extended power outage. It emphasizes the mentality of our socialistic, entitlement/welfare society where people think they don’t have to fend for themselves because when TSHF, the government will be there to take care of them. Examples of the calls received include:
      Where do I get food vouchers for food that was lost?
      Because we spent our rent money to replace lost food, where do we go to get help to pay our rent and utility bills.
      When they were told that the red cross didn’t have funding for rent, utilities, and food replacement due to power outages, and that disaster donations were being used to help those who really needed it – those who lost their homes to tornadoes, the response of several was “well that not fair, we were affected too.” I had to bite my tongue on several occasions as I really wanted to say: “I’m sorry, but a lack of preparedness on your part does not constitute an emergency on our part.”

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    33. Lostwages says:

      I posted a comment at 4:57 and it’s still states: “Your comment is awaiting moderation.” I didn’t write anything bad, is it just because it’s my first time here?

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    34. laura m. says:

      Daisy, you’re so right. Many retirees with paid for houses have to stay in cities too; they are very involved in the community, churches, have Drs, friends, activities, family etc. and refuse to go anywhere else, as some have moved many times in their working years and sick of moving. Plus, some say they want to “guard” their houses.

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    35. Lostwages says:

      I live in the mountains of Northern California. A little town of about 3000 people. I get a real kick out of the flat landers that come around in the summer time. You can always tell who they are by the way they push and shove in the stores and gas station. We don’t count on much from the government, I have a well, a back up generator, some live stock, a garden, a gun or two, fishing equipment, medical gear, and plenty of propane bottles that I keep full, plus a wood stove with a oven on top of the fuel box and plenty of wood. I also have fruit and walnut trees and learned how to can, so I can stock pile my food. I need to learn how to smoke fish and meats…but I heard their hard to light! LOL! I think the biggest worry us country folks face is fighting off the cities and flat landers that come round trying to take what doesn’t belong to them after the bad event happens! I plan to be very careful when strangers come around. It’s great to help your follow man, as long as he has the same opinion, but hunger can make people do so strange things!

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    36. MSH …about the untrained in the classrooms??
      I am an educator and in KY, 3 years ago I couldn’t even get an interview for an aide job.
      The system uses untrained so they don’t have to pay $120 per day for the trained…I think.

      My prayers are with you—God is watching over us now…please believe this…I know…I just broke 3 bones in my foot and dh is a logger with 23 days of rain of the last 42. We will pay as we can as the bills come in—and I am not worried about that.

      Of course, I chose no surgery….My prayers are with you and your family.

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    37. I wish I could just leave my apartment here in the city and move to the country. That would be so wonderful, but it’s not realistic for someone who does go to work every day and still never enough money at the end of the month. It is not possible for someone who barely has anything left over after paying all monthly bills and living paycheck to paycheck to just up and leave. I wish I could make it happen, but how?

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      • Cyber_Samurai says:

        Start by looking for a job in a rural area where you would like to move to. I know!!! It’s easier said than done, but you gotta put effort into it. Nothing worth having/doing comes without effort. That being said, I also know what kind of job market exists right now. You may have to work doing something you’re not inclined to do. If you work as a secretary, you may have to work in a lumber factory cutting wood. That kind of thing. Actually, you might find yourself in a better situation financially by moving and taking a job in a completely different field.

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      • Veterans wife says:

        Look folks go to the library…get rid of cable, internet, and expensive phones…pre paid phones…or majic jack…buy big bags of rice, and dry beans…get baskets and plant tomatoes and peppers, potatoes can be cut into wedges and planted , save the seeds from your Gtow tomatoes, cucmbers, strawberries have seeds on the outside, go to a local food charity and pick up canned foods, get box games from the goodwill and books that can be bought at the annual library sale for a donation, aldi’s is a cheap food store here…garage sales …have nice items…for cheap…sew clothes, curb shop, people in nice areas throw out a lot of nice sturdy stuff, I wish I was as rich as George Soros and could help all of us…vote the beasts out of office stop watching entertainers…they are getting rich off you…they set bad examples for the kids, find and negotiate better rent someplace else, land contracts are good, purchase money mortgages are off the local bank grid, negotiate…
        don’t be a victim…my heart breaks for all of us…this is something that I had I never had to live through especially seeing good kids get killed like cannon fodder, there are natural fruits that will pop up in spring, go apple picking, and to free events with your families…auction off homes and unnecessary home belongings, create a business that you will be good at…apply for every stinking govt. hand out…as much as I hate to say that do it…Section 8 pays for rent…
        go to church and get connected with a real Bible believing church….pray and fast…God can and will lead you to where you need to be…Amen

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    38. Lorismom says:

      I have done so much reading on all this stuff my eyes are crossed by now. I think one of the people that has a great attitude about this is Daisy. I always hear and read how your MIND is the best weapon or defense–skill you have and I believe that to be correct. You just gotta do what ya gotta do with what you have and educate yourself as best you can on the rest. Many times strength of mind and fortitude will getyou further than any stuff that is bought. Now I am not saying not to buy anything—-just that so many people have lost crtical thinking skills and no matter what is provided to them they seem to always be up shi$ creek while someone who has far less in material items but has educated themselves and makes the most of what they DO have will see m to have smoohr sailing. Have seen it several times through the years. Sure a lot of you have too.

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    39. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress says:

      Lost Wages, I think you and I might be neighbors! For those of you who live in the cities and wonder how you can possibly get some land in the countryside, one route is through mineral claims on BLM or national forest land. Those can be staked for a small fee or purchased from previous owners for a lot less than regular rural land. They are usually remote and you can get sites on streams or near water. However, there are lots of scam artists selling mineral claims so buyer beware. But that is one way for the city dweller to get land in the country for caching food and supplies for a SHTF situation.

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      • MiVidaLoca says:

        I think all three of us (Lost Wages and you) are close by each other. I live in the Central Valley and love the foothills. In fact, that’s where we are trying to move to. But a total flatlander or yuppy I am not. I am a former country girl moved to the city by her parents trying to get back. GA Mom suggested we rent out our house and that might just be what we have to do to get outta here. I did not know all of this about BLM land – thanks much for sharing!

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      • Kat says:

        I think I may be pretty close to you as well. Nor Cal–east of Sacratomato. And have family in the foothills. We could make in on foot in about 3 hours. Our place in town, however, is a nice-sized lot that we are converting over to sustainable landscape- Fruit trees instead of decorative stuff. Veggies and berry bushes mixed into the landscape, and chickens in the backyard. We grow much of our own produce, and eat eggs every day, and have a substantial storage system for the home-made canned and dehydrated goods. There’s a lot that can be done in a suburban setting, no matter the size of your lot.

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    40. caryn says:

      for those who have described painful stories of living paycheck to paycheck, etc…you all really need to give yourselves a serious lifestyle reality check. obviously your lifestyles are or have caught up with you and now you are paying the price. look at your lifestyle-do you still eat out or use fast food places? do you still give your kid just about everything he wants above his basic needs? what is that crap in your closets that is taking up space cause you are’nt wearing it or saving it even though it does not fit anymore? simply put, you need to overhaul your budget, your home, your entire life….and the way things are today you need to get your ass moving on the overhaul now. you might just surprise yourself in finding that there are strong possibilities that you will survive what is coming. first ya gotta do the hard stuff…. i promise you, it does get easier.

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      • GA Girl says:

        Many are like us. We are living on less, everything costs more. Our family grew. We have cut everything and it still hurts.

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      • Tami says:

        Wow, Caryn, you know every person’s personal situation to the “T” and your advice was so incredibly helpful!

        Thanks?

        I can think of way more people living under their means than over, who want to prepare, but are having trouble doing so due to their personal situation. It’s not so cut and dry as you seem to make it, Caryn.

        I started to describe some of these various kinds of situations, but so many are so complicated, my head began to spin. Each one, however, are not in their situations, because they choose to be and are careless with their money. No, they are more frugal than I am, but given our current situation in America, they are among the many who are suffering the consequences of the lazy bums around them (both libs and conservatives).

        I think the biggest problem facing those who want to prepare, but don’t have extra funds laying around, is that they see people here who are buying hundreds and thousands of dollars worth of items to prepare. Some of those pre-packaged one year supply worth of food for a family of four, is around $5000! That is overwhelming for someone who doesn’t have $100 laying around. This is what they see and easily get discouraged. I don’t blame them.

        However, if you give people little steps to start preparing with, they feel more confident they can start now. Asking them to do an “overhaul” may not be feasible, but little steps are.

        One can start by purchasing an extra jar of peanut butter, a can of chicken, or whatever your family eats that is non-perishable or have extended expiration dates. Just start there and do as far as your budget allows. Even if that is ONE jar of peanut butter, start your pile of emergency food with that one jar, and watch the pile grow…even if it is little by little.

        Sell ONE item in your house on Craigslist, Ebay, or whatever means you choose. I’m amazed at what people will buy. Use the profit and buy more food, or save for a larger ticket item, such as a good quality water filter.

        These are little steps one can start doing to prepare. We don’t know when things will get bad, but anyone can start with a single small step to get them closer to their goal.

        Once a person starts seeing their collection going, they catch enthusiasm to keep going and make more sacrifices to make it grow even more! That is what some people need is the encouragement with those baby steps.

        A little is better than nothing, so if anyone is reading this who is in a very tight situation, stay encouraged! Start with baby steps and keep doing what you can with each paycheck (if you’re not unemployed, that is).

        Personally, my own suggestion would be to make sure you save for a good quality water filter, such as Berkley. I saw in another blog where someone made a homemade Berkley water filter for a couple hundred dollars less than the Berkley’s. There are a few ideas out there, so do a quick search for a homemade Berkley and you can start getting the ideas rolling.

        Start buying the small food items with each grocery trip. Buy a single package of ammo, if you have a gun, but if not…just buy a baseball bat and stick a few nails on the end! Go to Wal-Mart, buy some cheap single stick candles. Buy a small package of heirloom seeds and start a small container garden.

        Whatever you do, just get creative and start small! You can do it! You’ll be surprised at what you can do, because none of us know for sure when things will go bad. For all you know, you may have a few more years or even longer. So keep going until things do hit the fan! You’ll be more prepared than most other Americans. :)

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    41. REB says:

      Just me but even if there were no chance of collape Id still live this way,cant stand being dependent or being told….living in town takes too much out of a person,listening to and accomadating everybody elses wants and ways…out here I worry about what the critters and my family wants….life is good.

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      • Just me says:

        REB it’s also a way of life for us, We just took over where my folks left off in the forties,gardening,canning,chickens,rabbits( I did work self employed most of my life except for the last 14 yrs before retiring) no more large animals although we’ve thought about getting a team of mules or even one large horse to haul wood.Selling and trading wood, maple syrup,honey,vegetables is how our folks survived the 30s-40s.
        I just don’t get why the Congressman is warning the people now, he’s old and smart enough to know that people should have made their move by the middle 80s before land,homes and fuel went out of sight.Now with inflation coming and soon hyperinflation,no jobs, people aren’t going anywhere. Any food the government can get their hands on will have to go to feed our massive military.even some the local food pantries are closing up or going partners with the next villages.

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        • REB says:

          I know what you mean. Sometimes I get the impression that lotsa folks want a farm or a place like one,but think its kinda like having a kit sitting there in the “preps”…you know kinda like “instant farm in a bottle”just add water and voila’…its all set up and operating,chickens laying eggs…cow/goats milking away,crops all in rows just begging to be eaten,wood stacked,all the “knowledge and experience” of how its all done just dropped into their minds by divine edict…

          Im not knocking anyone Im just seeing this “state of mind” alot anymore and it worrys me….thats why I keep telling people its gotta be a lifestyle…an ongoing way of thinking and doing,if people dont have their heart in this way of living or would rather not have this lifestyle and are looking at it as a last resort,a way out of the crisis…then I fear for them,living off the land isnt easy,nor is it for non committed people,make sense?

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        • Odd Questioner says:

          Agreed on the hard work aspect of it.

          I read so many posts and even articles about long-term post-SHTF scenarios that astound me, when it comes to farming.

          Unless you already have oxen/draft horses and a working plow or two, how in the heck is that land going to get tilled/plowed? If we’re talking true TEOTWAWKI, then gasoline/diesel is going to disappear after one or two planting seasons, period. Biofuel refining still takes a *lot* of work to get a gallon, and not just a little fuel of its own.

          Just one example… haven’t even touched on what crop yields will drop to w/o Anhydrous Ammonia, animal care w/o vaccinations, bulk feed and a vet handy, how folks intend to harvest crops with only a small number of people, etc.

          Personally, if I were to get a farm going in preparation for SHTF/TEOTWAWKI? Like you said, I’d already *have* it going.

          I’d stock up on the old-school equipment – plows, horse-drawn rakes, scythes, a couple of draft mares, etc… basically get up (and learn to use, practice on) enough gear to make an Amish man drop his jaw.

          Of course, even with a farm, ya gotta still make a living in the meanwhile…

          @ REB: The word “FarmVille” came to mind at the beginning of your post. :)

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          • REB says:

            Odd Questioner….Farmville,had to think on that for a sec,knew Id heard of it…I actually have a friend whos wife got so into that game she wouldnt help him out on the real farm,told him she’d been planting and working on the her “farm” real hard all day and she was too tired to do any more farm work….talk about friction,they got that straightened out real quick I might add! ;)
            Sad thing is I know shes not the only one out there that is thinking like this,and we both know “farmville” experience wont look all that good on a shtf resume!

            Regarding tools I long ago made sure I have lots of hand tools…everything from wrenches and sockets to adz and axes,drawknives and butter churns…cream seperators to froes and straight razors….and I know how they all work and I use them…. some Amish fellas I know tell me Im better off in the simple life ways than most of them are…its a great compliment and its true….:)

            That again was my point above….it took me years to acumalate both the tools and the knowledge,some people just seem to think they will “crash course”cram exam it…on the morning after and itll be okay,and hopefully for them it will work but I wont be holding my breath!

            The generation of people who lived this way and knew how are almost gone,and except for a few “old hippys” like yours truely ;) most younger people didnt see fit to ask grampa/ma or dad/mom to pass along the info….its still out there and can be found but nothing beats experience and old teachers who understand it,thanks!

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    42. hertosexual FLAMER says:

      Go home Okie & burn a steak. It’s not the same. Did the pineapples make it to Hawaii?

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    43. I live in Houston, so I am accustomed to dealing with the grocery and power supply disruptions because of hurricanes.
      The guys in this film are talking along the lines of terrorists and epidemics… which I don’t buy into given that any terror event will likely be staged by our own government… same with epidemics. The part about hyperinflation is likely by my reckoning.

      The thing is… close to 90% of americans were self-sufficient and living on farms during the Great Depression, but we still lost millions to starvation and population flight… and they still don’t know the real numbers. The currency was also more stable back then, too.
      These days… less than 10% of americans are living on farms and self-sufficient. The population is many times what it was back in the Depression.
      Yes, people are going to die in large numbers.

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    44. Those who can't says:

      move out of the cities – buy guns, ammo, food, water, power sources and help your neighbors as much as possible.

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    45. SmokinOkie says:

      heterosexualFLAMER–I just had a burnt steak and it was delicious! Dead cow charcoaled to a crisp. MMMMM… Pineapples still in transit.

      One suggestion to people thinking of moving to the countryside: if you’re going anywhere west of the plains states better check into water rights and availability. In many states you cant drill a well or even use flowing water that crosses your land without gov permission. In a post-shtf situation I’d simply ignore those regulations, but before then you gotta abide by the rules or you’re in a heap of trouble. Just a friendly reminder.
      Also, while I don’t want you ALL to move to Okla, there is still room for a few trainable city-fleeing refugees, provided you arrive well before the golden horde. And you’ll need to learn at least one dialect of “y’all.” Otherwise we won’t be able to communicate with you. Or at least bring a Yankee/Okie dictionary or similar electronic language translator. Otherwise you’ll be stuck for hours in the wal-mart check out line.

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      • Odd Questioner says:

        This. Okie, awesome. Water rights are paramount, and aside from my little neck of the woods (where it rains most of the time), I think that water will be the source of conflict out West.

        PS: I’ll happily (if at all possible) get my butt to the Ozarks, but we’ll be happy to send along as much free Kansas City/Springfield/Little Rock – borne labor your way as you can stand. :p

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    46. Junior'sMom says:

      If you have ever read the blog by FerFal—it’s about the Argentina collape—he has lived through total national chaos and financial meltdown and talks about the experience first hand. FerFal says that living out in the boonies is more dangerous than living in the city. In Argentina, the safest place to be when TSHTF was in samll towns where you had close, trusted associations with neighbors and families. There was safety in numbers to protect each other from roaming bands of thugs/thieves/killers etc.
      That being said, we can’t all just pack up and move to a small town or rural location. It takes money! Money to buy land and turn it into an off-grid living situation. And not everyone who is living check-to-check is squandering it. Some of us just have small checks! I drive a 6-year old car, haven’t taken a vacation in about 13 years, don’t waste money on buying magazines or newspapers, and haven’t bought new shoes in about 4 years.
      You just have to prepare for as many contingencies as you can on whatever size budget you have. And not everyone has a big circle of friends with money who will partner buy the land and let you live there semi-communally with them.
      Just do what you can with what you have.

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    47. Just me says:

      SmokinOkie says:
      you can have Okla, I’ll take the snow and a little cold a few months of the yr. I don’t have to spend any time thinking about torrandos, earth quakes, forest fires,mudd slides,hurricanes,tsuamis,poison snakes, alligators, scorpions, heat waves,humidity,ect.. Did i mention that all the people who can get out will head south and west where it’s warm and most of the food is grown.

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      • Suzy says:

        Gosh, that sounds like Australia! Except we have crocodiles instead of aligators, funnel web spiders instead of scorpions, fewer tsunamis, but more susceptible to droughts (not enough rain) or floods (too much rain) as we’re fairly flat.

        I think our urban folk can make a more convincing impression of a country person, however. All you have to do is hold a beer in one hand and say “bloody” and “mate” a lot.

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    48. Anonymous says:

      Which one of you wants to be a General? Okie?

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    49. DPS says:

      Does the okie text book come in the Texas verison as well? Thats funny okie.. Hell its so dry here even the rattle snakes have moved out. But back to the city slickers you know if you want to learn about country skills the you should visit The Mother Earth web site it is loaded with know how articles from gardening to build a outdoor oven. I feel for most of ya’ll cause here I already have the tools and gear for a shtf. When got most of the gear it was camping gear not survival gear.
      Another over looked resource is garage sales, due the the fact that alot of yuppies buy camping gear only to realize camping is hard. I recently bought 2 coleman lanterns and a camp stove for $12 not to mention all the canning equipment that was made in the good old USA..I forgot who said it in the comments but I have to agree Our mind in one of the best defense we have So get to reading ppl. And by all means learn the TX-OK way to talk it will be more gooder when you head south

      Just A redneck Tx man

      DPS

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      • VRF says:

        Garage sales rock for survival needs..
        In the last two summers I have scored so much out door equipment , i have probably redundancy now in most everything i owned for “camping”

        Tents, Camp cook ware, lanterns, colman stove for 10 bucks!..with fuel!..

        wind up radio, walkie talkies..the list goes on.

        I scored a Zero Temp survival bag for 5 bucks last year.

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        • DPS says:

          That is some great scores VRF. What alot people don’t know is 1 is none 2 is 1 and 3 is way better..LOL TX talk..Something I forgot to mention is about 8 yrs ago while stowed up with a broken leg I was about to round up some used storm windows and a few ould fence post and built myself a small green house, which is full of heirloom veggies set in April. So with alittle bit of thought anything is possible.

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      • Cyber_Samurai says:

        Amen. Sometimes it has a hint of hippy-talk, but all in all, Mother Earth can tell you things that most folks have forgotten. Check out their articles on alternative energy. They’ve got a lot of good information for those who would go “off the grid”.

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        • QuantumBubbler says:

          Mother Earth News has a 4 CD set of all articles since they began. It’s down to about $25 and of course will work should the internet disappear.

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          • Odd Questioner says:

            I can vouch for the Mother Earth News… actually been reading it since I was a little kid (parents had a subscription). There’s a metric ton of neat bits in there.

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          • NunJoBizness says:

            I LOVE that magazine and did buy the DVD set. Wonderful publication born the same year I was….

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    50. AZ Ready says:

      I live in a town of 7000 people. People here are no more prepared than the golden hordes of the big cities. There will be less to defend against, that’s all.

      Many go on about being self suffient, growing food, raising animals and the like. This is easier said than done, especially in a SHTF scenario. Water is needed on site to grow food with a delivery system in place. If the grid goes down, alternate power will be needed to run pumps. Animals require food and water as well and will need protection from the hordes. You don’t just move to rural America and believe everything will be fine because it won’t be.

      Rural communities will have the same problems as the large cities, only on a smaller scale.

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    51. Has anyone read the book ‘One Second After’?

      I just finished it, good story line but the BS America hoo rah and pro govt., pro military, pro cop aspect made me wanna puke! That and it had a few tear jerker moments….other than that it was interesting on the challenges they went through after the curtain dropped. ne thing that stood out to me a little personally before reading the book and then the book made the same connection and really made it sink in more and that is this; Without electricity, it will be worse than 150-200 years ago cause their infrastructure was set up to be without electricity and they had the knowledge and know how…..for the most WE DON’T!!

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    52. Mardochee Augustin says:

      I live in Brooklyn,Ny and I experienced the blackout of 2003. To tell you guys the truth a city with millions cannot last in a black out for a week let alone a month or a year. Large mega cities are not sustainable in one dramatic collapse event. A blackout for a significant time period,or economic collapse in a city will be very chaotic. Look at New Orleans after Katrina. If like Mac said there is a slow decline then it will be better for us. Just like in Argentina. It is somewhat a controlled chaos(rampant corruption,limited law and order,high crime but a functioning governement). It would be like Argentina during its default except a bit more violent but not like Mad Max or Somalia. Living a city would be good in the sense that you can band with other people to protect your neighborhood or community. The same can be said for suburbs and small towns. Being in a rural area when your next door neighbor is 2 miles away seems good but you will be isolated. And like what happens in Mexico all the time, 10-20 heavily armed gang bangers,thugs or corrupt cops or unemployed Fed agents come to take your resources by force you will not last. If there are 10-20 of them but you have a family of 4-7 you will not last.If you want an example of a slow decline to economic collapse look at Argentina or the drug war in Mexico. The Mexican govt have lost 40% of its territories to drug cartels! It is very violent down there but it is not like Mad Max. Small towns in Mexico are actually forming vigilante militias to protect their town. There is one story of a Mexican town storming the police headquarters and taking guns from the arsenal to protect themselves.
      So Mexico is on a slow decline to economic collapse. Also here is a video of cartel hitmen in 10 suvs swarm one house. If this happens if you are in a rural area you will be toast.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VXr9k_HxGo

      However if there is a massive event then the cities will be unlivable. I hope and pray we do not have a massive economic collapse event which just puts the nation in turmoil. So it looks like a steady decline but cities are not sustainable. At some point supplies in water,electricity,food and medical assistance will be exhausted in a sever collapse scenario. But in a steady decline the cities will be very bad but not like Mad Max.

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    53. It will be for us more like it was 500 years ago

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    54. a Ludd says:

      ;(
      cant run cant hide. “De. tro..it in r u i n s” . c o m,
      etc.

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    55. European American says:

      There’s good city folk and bad city folk.
      There’s good country folk and bad country folk.

      Both places have their perverts and hicks (just like this blog and any other blog).

      Consciousness will be the only safe tool to navigate through the mine fields of ignorance. Sort of like magically always finding oneself being in the right place at the right time. Whereas, without IT, seemingly being in the wrong place at the wrong time. (The world IS as you are. And, What one puts ones attention on, grows and grows. And, As one sows so shall one reap. i.e. what you put out comes back ten fold.)

      So, ultimately, it really doesn’t matter where one is as long as one is fearlessly in That Great Cosmic Flow.

      If one watches the video, in it’s entirety, a number of red flags fly high with the amount of propaganda supporting “their” agenda. Can anyone tell me who, what specific organization/group, produced it? I didn’t think so.

      Lastly, slow melt, over the next 9 years. Yes, there will be “events” that make it appear for those directly in the line of fire that their world is collapsing, e.g. Joplin, but slow will be the pace, contrary to what a lot of “wanna be survivalists” are hoping for.

      If you live in the city, don’t let bloggers here scare you into thinking you are doomed. Just focus on creating trust with those you interact with. Be sincere and go out of your way to establish strong ties with your neighbors. If you don’t know your neighbors, then you have some work to do. Remember, Consciousness is the key. Whatever you need to do to expand that area of your inner life, make it your primary objective. Evil and ignorance will stay away from you naturally and automatically, no matter where you find yourself. Again, don’t let the fearful, like those that hide here on this blog site fill you with their fear They are the easy ones to ferret out. They say things like “Don’t you city folk come to my outpost, you ain’t wanted around these here parts” Now, would you trust someone like that? I didn’t think so. Birds of a feather, flock together.

      Life is good when one is connected to the Source, i.e. God. Stay in that realm and your life and your families life will be guided through the Phase Transition with less discomfort.

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    56. blake says:

      Ah yes…our will to survive. Precisely, nowhere to run and nowhere to hide indeed. After years and a career of military service, roaming the globe as a military brat and my share of near death experiences…I still believe the prevailing theory here at the Waltons is that all roads lead “Home” and all the planning and preparation are just short term solutions to a longer term problem (opportunity?)…defining “Home.”

      “Lately it occurs to me what a long strange trip it’s been.”
      GD

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    57. Scar says:

      blake….me too, same here and I agree.

      The trip is getting stranger. :)

      You know what’s funny? Most of even us prepared types are going to die.

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    58. Tom says:

      1/2 boy 1/2 man
      Marilyn vos Savant
      If you read this, you WILL forward it on. You just won’t be able to stop yourself.
      The average age of the military man is 19 years. He is a short haired, tight-muscled kid who, under normal circumstances is considered by society as half man, half boy. Not yet dry behind the ears, not old enough to buy a beer, but old enough to die for his country. He never really cared much for work and he would rather wax his own car than wash his father’s, but he has never collected unemployment either.
      He’s a recent High School graduate; he was probably an average student, pursued some form of sport activities, drives a ten year old jalopy, and has a steady girlfriend that either broke up with him when he left, or swears to be waiting when he returns from half a world away. He listens to rock and roll or hip-hop or rap or jazz or swing and a 155mm howitzer. He is 10 or 15 pounds lighter now than when he was at home because he is working or fighting from before dawn to well after dusk. He has trouble spelling, thus letter writing is a pain for him, but he can field strip a rifle in 30 seconds and reassemble it in less time in the dark. He can recite to you the nomenclature of a machine gun or grenade launcher and use either one effectively if he must. He digs foxholes and latrines and can apply first aid like a professional.
      He can march until he is told to stop, or stop until he is told to march. He obeys orders instantly and without hesitation, but he is not without spirit or individual dignity. He is self-sufficient. He has two sets of fatigues: he washes one and wears the other. He keeps his canteens full and his feet dry. He sometimes forgets to brush his teeth, but never to clean his weapon. He can cook his own meals, mend his own clothes, and fix his own hurts. If you’re thirsty, he’ll share his water with you; if you are hungry, his food. He’ll even split his ammunition with you in the midst of battle when you run low. He has learned to use his hands like weapons and weapons like they were his hands. He can save your life – or take it, because that is his job.
      He will often do twice the work of a civilian, draw half the pay, and still find ironic humor in it all. He has seen more suffering and death than he should have in his short lifetime. He has wept in public and in private, for friends who have fallen in combat and is unashamed.
      He feels every note of the National Anthem vibrate through his body while at rigid attention, while tempering the burning desire to ‘square-away ‘ those around him who haven’t bothered to stand, remove their hat, or even stop talking. In an odd twist, day in and day out, far from home, he defends their right to be disrespectful. Just as did his Father, Grandfather, and Great-grandfather, he is paying the price for our freedom. Beardless or not, he is not a boy. He is the American Fighting Man that has kept this country free for over 200 years.
      He has asked nothing in return, except our friendship and understanding. Remember him, always, for he has earned our respect and admiration with his blood.
      And now we even have women over there in danger, doing their part in this tradition of going to War when our nation calls us to do so.
      As you go to bed tonight, remember this shot. A short lull, a little shade and a picture of loved ones in their helmets.

      The Prayer Wheel

      ‘Lord, hold our troops in your loving hands. Protect them as they protect us. Bless them and their families for the selfless acts they perform for us in our time of need. In Jesus name, Amen.’

      When you receive this, please stop for a moment and say a prayer for our troops on the ground, sailors on ships, and airmen in the air at home and in all foreign countries.

      There is nothing attached….This can be very powerful..

      Of all the gifts you could give a US Soldier, Sailor, Coastguardsman, Marine, or Airman, prayer is the very best one.

      Please forward this to everyone you know.

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    59. Eric says:

      I estimate conservatively that when this happens, say a large scale EMP over the US in winter, fully 200 million will die within 1 month or less. Most in the northern areas with cold winter will not be able to survive beyond 2 weeks. People in the US are living in complete denial and dangerous complacency. Most these days have no clue what is headed for us. It’s scary that people these days have less than 5 days of food supply in their home and maybe 2 days of water supply, just ask your neighbor at any one time. Most are a deer in a headlights when you try to engage them in meaningful conversation. I cling to my faith in the Lord first and foremost then my personal preparations. People need to wise up and get right with God

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    60. Keither says:

      So we won’t have any electricity/food/water/transport for months, but at least we’ll have Obama Care.

      Wooooooooooot !!!

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    61. recovery2012 says:

      crap all the water i stored will freeze.
      i live in the north east 12th floor of dense high rise.
      inner city. wont leave during martial law forced evacuation to camp death..carry my dead 250 lb body..
      unless i evade..got supplies and a solid steel door..
      need interior frame locks to install when shtf. cant get legal arms, diagnosed with bi polar. well i will live longer than most here..many in wheelchairs..no power no elevator and no water (has to be pumped to upper floors)
      many will die within 10 days leaving supplies behind.need wrecking bar to pop those doors yes? paid security will be gone and the thugs will be dead or gone mostly after 3 months..53 floors total..3 foot thick concrete walls..by the time i hit the street population of 200,000 reduced to what? hey they didnt eat the roaming dogs..asian dog wedding soup anyone ??? got water tabs magnesium firs starter ect ect ect and a couple of S.O.G. quality survival knives.case of pepper spray 10 percent(cops carry 5) probly find a few guns amung the deseased..religious folk here wont prepare as they say its gods will..i tend to be spiritual instead. so i hope the city dweelers do go out to outer areas and get shot..more for me right here as i have no where to go..plenty of wood in buildings..plant in summer..study survival skills..with lack of water theres enough food left behind for a long time in other apartments since no one is preped but me and no one knows it..except you..

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    62. This is crazy ass bullshit

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkbiS0Il-Og&feature=player_embedded

      I just want to know what corporate code or public policy they infringed upon?

      Dancing is illegal in Washington D.C.??

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    63. SmokinOkie says:

      Justme–you mentioned a few of the drawbacks to living in Okla, such as tornadoes, fires, floods, scorpions, snakes, heat waves, humidity an such. Oh, and our few small earthquakes. But other than that, it can be a nice place to live. Besides, we have never, ever had a known asteroid impact or avalanche. And I believe the odds of alien abduction are much lower than they used to be!
      Plus, in most years we field a fine college football team. The best money can buy. And, contrary to popular opinion, we don’t hate Texans. (except for the one day each year when we play football against them) The rest of the time we actually like and respect them!
      Besides, Okla has turned out many fine philosophers over the years. Like Garth Brooks who said “I could have missed the pain, but I’d have had to miss the dance,” Toby Kieth who said “We’ll put a boot in your ass, it’s the American way,” and most famously Roger Miller who said “You can’t roller skate in a buffalo herd.” Who can argue with intellectual fire power like that?

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    64. SmokinOkie says:

      PS- I just spent the day (saturday) hiking and roaming the trails around Multnomah Falls just east of Portland, OR and I must say: while Oregon is beset with many problems, mainly due to the uber-liberal, big gov thinking brought on by a generation of California refugees, it is still a great place to visit. The falls are awesome! Now if I could just figure a way to sneak over at night and steal one of their falls and take it home with me, I’d have it made!

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      • Odd Questioner says:

        Just bribe (PDX Mayor) Sam Adams (or just sleep with him) like everyone else does.

        *sheesh* – this isn’t rocket science!

        PS: Hello from the other side of town! :)

        PPS: Yeah, it’ll rain sideways when you do it, but go hit Mo’s seafood restaurant in Cannon Beach (out on the coast) if you can. Your taste buds will thank you for it.

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    65. Anonymous says:

      Always enjoyed a good picnic with Will Roger at his garden or the views and smells of Ten Killer or flying over Grand Lake on a summer evening.

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    66. an angry veteran says:

      Did that 3 years ago move to CFALLS Columbia Falls Montana (shithole) thinking it would be a great town to retire in after vacationing in Glacier Park!… ;0P

      1.) Unemployment rate 18 percent. So …

      2.) The town is over run by Meth Labs.

      3.) Drunk Driving is a sport here, he or she who hits more shit than anyone else by Monday morning every week wins KING or Queen of town Gossip! If you hit and Kill a local Cop you get a free fillup at the local gas and gulp , if you kill a State Cop you get a Bonus Round!

      4.) If you don’t beat your wife, molest your daughters, drink like a fish, smoke Meth and beat your dog here. Your considered “Weird” here! -truth

      5.) If you don’t go out every Fall and “blow away” a deer with a high powered rifle slug at 25 yards! Your either a “Fag” or from New York!

      6.) The welcome wagon here is your neighbors throw rocks at your house and car at 3am, rob you, stick your tires with ice picks and throw paint remover on your cars hoods! Put sugar in your gas tanks!And thats just their Kids in KinderGarden! Wait till you meet the Parents… Deliverence is real!

      Ohhh and every time you buy your BRAND NEW 1998 used 4×4 usually with traces of drugs in it, you gotta rip off the exhaust and muffler… just so your as cool sounding as the rest of the Local in-Breeders!

      Oh and some Local moronic state Reps and the Govner legalized Pot so everyone who wasn’t driving Drunk Driving is now Driving High at the fast speed of 15mph!

      Welcome to my new peaceful retreat town… so folks my advice is move to an area near other established family and friends .. or else you and your kids will literally become fresh meat for the LOCALS to Rob and Harass just cause your not from there.

      Stay where your are your safer there than – here!

      And buy a 12 gauge!

      Just sayin’

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      • Another Comment says:

        Yup. Had the same experience in rural Georgia. No matter what you do, you won’t “fit in” to most rural areas, even if you try to act like a hick. If you manage to blend on behavior and fool them initially, the first question is “who’s your daddy?” — and they know if he ain’t from them parts. It’s a tightly knit clan, and if you’re in (as most people on this board seem to be), then good for you. If you are not … well, good luck.

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      • Odd Questioner says:

        Ah, geez.

        First off, you gotta do some research. Rent a place for six months before buying property, FFS.

        Next up, yes, it is far, far, *far* preferable that you have some relatives in the town before you move in. Coming in cold from the city is a sure way to be viewed with suspicion and curiosity.

        Also, get *involved* with the (legit) local activities. Go deer hunting (yeah, you’ll get hazed, so what?), participate in the local town events (no matter how silly you think they may be), and be a part of the group.

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      • Veterans wife says:

        Your article is the best I’ve read so far……..we live in Ohio and I wish you could go with us to North Carolina…we plan on looking at Jefferson City…hopefully we won’t go belly up there…we almost did here…Thank God for a last minute warning to refinance and pay off our debts…God help us all…we sure do need it….God Bless all of you and us…in Jesus name Amen

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      • cfallspaul says:

        Hey I live in that town!!! It ain’t that bad we only harass ya’ll new comers cause you are making it hard for us Country Boys to afford to live here and we only marry our second cousins by the way!!!

        So where did you say you were from again?

        And ummm When Are Ya Movie Back? LMAO ;0)

        Sucker!

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      • mmkerey says:

        My sister in-law works for Flathead County Prosecutors Office and after I complained to her about this comment she said that actually the poster was right!

        CFalls Columbia Falls Montana has 8 eight sexual preditors an rapists and a Child rapist who raped an molested a bunch of local children at his wifes daycare all registered as preditors!

        Not a town I would live in! Bad Bad town!

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    67. street people says:

      i used to be a homeless jobless addict mental case – i got it togther and became functionalagain quite a few years ago – but my life on the streets – gave me an edge others that havent been there just dont have .- so let the world go up in ruins – dont care – im good -i have no problem losing everythng and starting all over . key thing – if you have something someone else would want – use or need chances are it will be stolen – so either dont let them know you got it -hide it – or have nothing worth stealing . i kind of liked a few aspects of homeless life – -no bills to be burdened to pay except your habbit and food and smokes daily -transportation costs were minium -you walked everywhere -you meet the wildest craziest funnest people out there – then you meet people you wish you never met . you migrate where the opertunitys are and the weather is good .people are either kind or there not -theres no inbetween -either folks like homeless or they dont . dogs are good friends – burgalar alarms and mobile electric blankets and pillows :} anyways-its a less complicated life and if your smart you have several places in diffrent areas you call home . and all of your stuff is not carried with you -its burried -stored all over so your good .life sucks on the streets but once youve been there -you no longer fear homelessness or jobless ness because youve all ready gotten that life mindset so the adjustment isnt that hard .:} pretty easy actually once you get habbits and operations down .-dont worry be happy me i would live in the city incase shit hits the fan -why – more opertunity :} …

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    68. DPS says:

      BJ you are right this is a big bunch of BS. Not only did those police make arrest for dancing , worst yet they attack the people videoing this event. I would be well worth eveyones time to check out the video since its going to be happening more and more in every state.

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    69. Anonymous says:

      And now for something different. This guy should be arrested for entertaining us everyday at our “old folks” home. Make him move, not us. Jello sucs everyday.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07IhWD2Lr2A

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    70. James says:

      I have read all of the comments above and agree with most. Country folk are very tight knit and it is difficult to assimulate into the community.
      If you decide to go to rural area, explore the culture of the area ie religion,customs etc before taking the plung. Socially it is very hard to break in and people want to know all about you so if you can not deal with that, beware!
      Living on a farm acreage is hard work dealing with multiple challenges ie lawn mowing, building maintenance,weed control,snow removal, gardening,etc.
      I am not young anymore and putting up fence for the garden and other chores are not very easy.
      You must be creative about how to fix things and have alot of tools and the knowlege to use them.
      It takes a large investment in equipment to make it out here and you must be prepared to make that commitment. Stuff like small tractor, rototiller,riding lawnmower,etc are essential unless you have a group of folks that can manually do all these things. Like a prior post said just buying a place in the country isn’t going to magically produce a garden, chickens for eggs, cows for milk and meat,etc. It takes hard work and money! I made my move out of the city about five years ago and have not regretted it but I can tell you that it isn’t for everybody.
      As far as security I don’t think that there is answer that fits all situations but, I feel safer not being in a large city and if the SHTF I will do my best to survive but if the Lord calls me home that is OK too. God Bless James

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    71. Just me says:

      If there is a collapse and after the dust has settles, has anyone given thought to the real dangers afterwards?
      How about all the blacks that hate whites,south Americans, Puerto Ricans ect or all the whites who hate blacks,mexicans ect. and all the other different nationalities living here who do not get along with others in the citie, but are at peace because of the threat of arrest and jail?
      How about all the Muslims, koreans, Chinese,Russians and others that that our government has POed off. I know we’re at peace and everyone loves everyone acording to the MSM, but in the real world right here in America there are places that people of different races and religions walk only in the daytime and do not fool around, they get in and they get out. Most of our schools have cops stationed in them to keep riots from breaking out

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      • Strider says:

        About 5% (tops) of blacks are capable of functioning in a limited-govt., non-welfare society. The other >=95% will self-destruct once SHTF and the govt. gravy train derails. The fates of the Mexicans and others depend on what kind of immigration laws are enacted in the various parts of the former USA.

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    72. Anonymous says:

      Never tell the country folks anything other than you won the lotto and will be raising parrots for the eggs. Break them in easy.

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    73. I find it ironic how you have two groups of people arguing collapse on a lot of sites I go to. One group says it will be a gradual collapse and the other says a quick over night collapse. And both go on to say we are losing our country, America and it’s freedoms and you won’t recognize this country in ten years…..I LMBO to that. I think we truly are the frog in the pot and that we are already unable to jump out of the pot…the skin down to the ligaments and muscles are already too cooked to jump….it ALREADY HAPPENED~!! If people weren’t so dumbed down as a whole society and truly understood and knew the strict meaning of the constitution and bill of rights word by word and then got out of the political theater paradigm, there would be riots in the streets tomorrow….especially if they knew and understood the federal reserve. Our political system is really no different then watching WWF anymore, it is all a facade and show and they know it. ‘Intellectuals and Society’ really is a eye opener if any has the time to read it….dry, but full of wisdom.

      This is crazy ass bullshit

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkbiS0Il-Og&feature=player_embedded

      I just want to know what corporate code or public policy they infringed upon?

      Dancing is illegal in Washington D.C.??

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    74. And no resistance, rebellion or revolution will ever be able to take place like over 200 years ago no matter how many Americans own guns. It won’t because the logistics and communication that would have to take place to get everyone organized and on the same page could never happen in the police surveillance state we are already now living in………we’re screwed!

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    75. Bill says:

      Hey BJ – You better move north about 50 miles and inland about 30. :-)

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    76. ChiefEOD says:

      People survived the great depression largely because the majority were much more self-sufficient then than today. 80% lived in rural areas and 20% in the cities; today it is the opposite. And most of the country folk then grew their own food or at least they knew how. Today, if the food supply chain came to a halt, the majority would either starve or resort to pillaging from each other, then starve. A good read is ONE SECOND AFTER by William Forstchen; check out his website, http://www.onesecondafter.com/ and also LIGHTS OUT. Many & most will laugh off the possibility, but be careful what you casually dismiss.

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      • I just finished it a few days ago and while for the most part I liked the story line just not who he had play the bad guys in it…but that shouldn’t surprise me since he obviously is a pro military adn police neo con….the forward by Newt Gingrich should of been a red flag to me. I enjoyed the book over all, but his pro military pro government crap made me wanna puke

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        • ChiefEOD says:

          BJ, just curious but what bad guys did you object to and who would see as becoming the bad guys in such a scenario? Also, what is it about pro military & pro police that makes you want to puke?

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          • I don’t buy the propaganda crap the MSM and politicians want to push on us about all these boogey men…..what boogey men are out there, we created…..by bullying and policing the world in affairs that were none of our damn business. Our military are nothing but mercenaries for hire by the world elites and corporations. And out police is nothing but the biggest organized street gang crime syndicate the world has ever seen

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    77. Kent says:

      I have done what I can, am fifty-eight years old and my wife is being treated for cancer. If TSHTF I may have to watch my wife of thirty years pass on without treatment. Living in the Central Valley in California, growing food is not a problem. Living in a small town of five thousand helps too, for most folks are armed and very conservative sorts. And many of us know or know of each other. My preps are quiet and unknown, a years supply of food for three, three months of water, filters, medical supplies, a hundred or so ounces of silver rounds, fire steels and firewood, quiet generators and fuel, solar rechargeable lanterns, windup radio….guns and ammunition, a couple of fruit trees,I would start a vegetable garden, camping gear from long past, a long list. We live in town.
      And I do worry….a lot, for obvious reasons. We are a ways from any big cities, and getting here would not be fun, if even possible…….many folks here canning extra food,
      The wife wondered about all this, now understands and supports my efforts. I am seeking like minded individuals, live about fifty miles north of Fresno.

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      • fred says:

        Kent.. sounds like just the kind of place I have been feeling the need to discover… you know… its that spiritual conected thing…. I take it you are there in the old gold country of ca….?

        Fred.

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    78. Dave says:

      Not too many people realize that a very large portion of the US population would willingly RUN to a FEMA camp scenario if they hadn’t eaten in 3 or 4 days.
      This is why we must all set aside 6 months or more worth of food and have a water source/gravity filtration (no electricity needed) to purify it.
      That plus some oil lamps, wicks, guns & ammo, garden tools should keep us from falling into the “FEMA sheep drive”.

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      • JANE says:

        DAVE,

        WE SHOULD BE BOTH CAREFUL, BECAUSE WE MAY BE ON THEIR LIST OF TARGETS AT THE TIME THE SHTF.

        JUST BECAUSE WE EXERCISE OUR “FREEDOM OF SPEECH aka UNIVERSAL RIGHTS” …. AS OBAMA TOLD THE WORLD IT’S A HUMAN RIGHT.

        I HOPE THAT THOSE WHO MAKE COMMENTS ON THIS WEBSITE DO NOT BECOME TARGETED ……………………………………………………………………………………………

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        • JANE says:

          I can’t believe I thought one thing and typed another.

          What I meant to type was “WE SHOULD BOTH BE CAREFUL, BECAUSE WE MAY BE ON THEIR LIST OF TARGETS AT THE TIME THE SHTF.” Sorry about that.

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      • David says:

        FEMA?? You think FEMA will be around if there is a major disaster like a EMP? You people in the city have been so well indoctrinated to think the government will be there for you if everything comes to a stand still, fat chance on that.

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    79. Dead Duck says:

      You know what? I enjoy life the way it is now, the way it has always been for me. I am turning 50 this year, and it has been a lot of fun. If/when the shtf, and things go away…. why would I want to live anymore? That is not the living I am used to. I dont want to farm, or live in the country. I dont wnat to “survive”. That would suck, I love living, I hate survival, what is the point of surviving?

      What I am saying is, I will kill myself before I have to survive. I have lived a great life… I HAVE LIVED, NOT SURVIVED. MY PINT – There should be a supply of suicide pills, or methods, made available to anyone who does not want to merley survive after the world turns to crap….. or I suppose I can use a gun, but I worry about “missing” and only wounding, making matter s even worse…. for everyone…. It would be nice to have an easy way to just go to sleep and die.

      Unfortunately the U.S. government feels they are the only one worthy to decide who can die (death penalty) so they shut down any group or person who offers humane self death. Just last week they raided an old lady in California who sold helium bag death kits, our government did want any of that going on…… and then they raided that guys house in Pima Arizona and shot at him 71 times, hitting him 20 time (fking retarded idoit shots) and then they did not allow him medical attention for an hour, so he died, they killed him. What a bunch of BS.

      My bottom line point?

      They (WE) should allow groups or people to supply other people a humane way to check out IF /WHEN the SHTF scenario comes along… and you all seem pretty sure it is coming, you act and speak like it is a sure thing.

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      • ChiefEOD says:

        Dead Duck, I appreciate your candor, and I respect someone who can be that honest with themselves. I would like to put out a couple of things for you to consider. When you said ”survive” I had the impression you were speaking about some sort of fall back to living like a primitive; mud huts, forgetting how to speak, not having fire, all that kind of stuff. Somewhere in between that and the availability of drive up fast food there are different levels of acceptability. Have you thought about at what point life would no longer be worth living? For instance, many of our parents or grandparents at least began life without electricity or natural gas to heat their homes. What level would be unacceptable, needing to have fuel oil delivered to heat your home, or cutting your own firewood or perhaps bartering for it? The other thing I would like you to consider is that most likely your parents or grandparents went through the great depression. I will make the assumption that they were not so wealthy in the needed ways to make life through that time easy for them. From what you wrote I can surmise that you measure the value of your life by its quantity of ease and comfort. Would you have even been here to enjoy your life of ease and comfort if they had had that same outlook on life?

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      • David says:

        I hope all you sad excuse’s for a human beings in the cities all have suicide pills. If you think death is better you must be a cream puff and people like you won’t survive a week anyways.

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    80. thx for nothing says:

      I hate web sites that have a comments section, then one posts a comment and it is censored, and not posted

      fku very much, pls stop wasting peoples time.

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      • Dead duck, there is a difference between censorship and moderation… The system auto moderates new user comments to prevent spam and keep the comments section clean of irrelevant content… Generally, comments are approved within a few hours, but it’s a holiday, so thanks for your patience :)

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      • VRF says:

        yeah Dude..Lighten up..jeeze

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    81. pretty in pink says:

      What i want to know is, when the shit never hits the fan, what will you all do?

      I suppose its perpetuating. Anyone who spends their whole life with an umbrella indoors waiting for shit to rain from the sky, is letting their dreams disappear, is placing doubt and fear before love and growth… anyone who does this already lives in a world where their fear is the shit that pours down from the sky like rain, is petrified by commitment or making decisions, is jealous and judgmental when others succeed, and lives safer behind their computer than in the real world.

      If this is you, congratulations, your life is a shit storm, fan or no fan.

      You better pray the world does collapse, and that you have one extra container of Tang that keeps you alive longer than the other selfish idiots who complain instead of volunteering so you can say, “I told you so,” as you lick the final orange granules from the container and claim your glory as the last fearful hoarder that lived on an earth that was destroyed by greed.

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      • Jonny V says:

        Just for your info: I don’t have any “doubt or fear”. I’m not “petrified of commitment”. I don’t own an umbrella, don’t drink Tang, and am not jealous of others success.

        I do this because I’ve lived through several near-major incidents (both natural and man-made) and I don’t doubt for a minute that our society is very fragile. I am prepared to feed, protect, and shelter my family for a period of time should some disaster hit. If you’ve had a chance to look at the news in between all your “love and growth” happiness, you’d see that the shit has been hitting the fan with amazing regularity.

        The thing about the position you promote, is that you’ll no doubt change your mind and be begging off people like me when something does happen and you get hungry. You try to turn your total obliviousness into some sort of positive attribute instead of realizing what it really is…mental escapism, denial of reality, and denial of responsibility.

        My dreams remain intact, by the way.

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      • ChiefEOD says:

        You have made some false assumptions Pretty in Pink. I enjoy life very much and don’t spend my days, or nights, cowering in fear of tomorrow. In no particular order… The 1st principle in storing food supplies is ‘store what you eat, eat what you store’. How that benefits us right now is I only buy food items when they are on sale, then I buy it by the case, so I don’t end up wasting $ needlessly. Two exceptions to that are about a year’s supply for 4 of dehydrated fruits and vegetables, and fresh produce. We also have a reasonable size garden and a variety of fruit trees & berry bushes. The idea in all this is not only are we currently supplied with the freshest produce during the growing season but we also can the surplus. The idea also is that I can easily expand the size of that garden to meet pretty much all of our food needs, if the need ever does arise. Kind of like how pretty much all of mankind did for thousands of years until factory farms came along. Our system today is more fragile than it ever has been. Between the ‘just in time’ system now employed in ALL of our warehousing and supply chain to the fact that for years the government itself stored enough surplus food basics to feed the country for the better part of a year, or until the next harvest came in. Today they store only about 6 pounds of grain for every person. I could go on for quite awhile here but let me ask you one question. When Katrina occurred, a lady was shown on a newscast sitting on her front step who hadn’t eaten in several days because she only kept a few meals of food in her cupboards at a time. She was refusing a MRE being handed out by volunteers distributing food because it wasn’t good enough for her. Who would you rather be, that pathetic lady or one who didn’t have to depend on others for something as simple as a decent meal. The majority of people like me whom prepare for tomorrows uncertainties do so because we enjoy being largely self-sufficient, we enjoy not being part of the problem, we enjoy the freedom living this way brings.

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      • DPS says:

        And once again I have to ask( If our own goverment is preparing, why aren’t you? Just because we stock food for our families doesn’t make gloom and doom people.. As for me I have always liked camping, hunting and gardening.
        Now its called preparedness. Just last night we here in the panhandle of texas had wild fires that took the home and lands of many good people, Had it been not for the good people here that are ready for a event like this many would be hungry the morning..So when you say that we spend our lifes hiding behind a computer ask yourself this.. How long did you spend reading our comments before you made this dumb-ss post of yours

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    82. SmokinOkie says:

      My Uncle Skidmark, the wisest and most unorthodox man I ever knew, once told me: “Boy, it aint that you’re wastin’ so much time, it’s what you’re wastin’ it ON that worries me.”
      We all should be doing as much as we can to enjoy life and at the same time, to be as prepared as possible for whatever comes our way. Which reminds me…I went to youtube to watch some suggested videos but got distracted by the last BeeGees album instead. I must say, it beats the heck out of their disco days stuff. Really, much better. That, and the ‘best guitar solo ever’ by Prince and before I realized it, I’d wasted 3 hours. (Clapton’s solo is better by the way) Can I get that time back? I mean, it was entertaining but I really needed to be doing something more useful. So my question is, does anybody know how to build a time travel machine? I want to go back a few years and skip some of my screw-ups from the 90s. And the 80s. And the 70s. The 60s are ok. I was too young to prosecute then. No doubt some of you are thinking: why not go back about 15 minutes and skip this comment? That way we both gain.
      Plus, if I could time travel back to 1977 I could avert the little incident with the tear gas at the city council meeting and who knows how life would have turned out since then. Talk about holding a grudge-The mayor STILL flips me off when he drives by the house. Some people just have no sense of forgiveness.

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    83. an angry veteran says:

      MONTANA VETERANS ADMINISTRATION = EUGENIC’S

      EUGENIC’S = MONTANA VETERANS ADMINISTRATION

      RESEARCH ACIDOSIS AND APPLY IT TO YOUR MEDS AND FOODS!

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      • wedunit says:

        I live SW of Poson, and I thank God daily that I don’t live in Flathead County. I was born and raised in Bigfork; wouldn’t want to be there now, no way, no how. I have to use the MT VA for my medical, but have found a way to beat their scheme. Change your system to alkaline, drink Kangen Water, or equivalent, at least 9.0 ph. I’d be interested in conversation. wedunit@blackfoot.net

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        • an angry veteran says:

          apologies wedunit as much as I appreciate the support and knowledge you pass on… it’s best you not get to close to me… as I have a Blood Grudge against the Montana Veterans Administration Docs for tresspasses they have made against me on my right to patient privacy! And those who are too close to me may/ will soon be burned! Catch my drift! I’m a 3%!

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    84. warlock says:

      The statement that transformers are not made in the USA is totally false. I have serviced machines critical in their construction in Tennessee and North Carolina. There are more manufacturing facilities that do, these are just two locations I have personal knowledge of and deal with.

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    85. anonymous6.8 says:

      My fish knows as much about the electricity grid as I do. Having put the disclaimer up front my question is, What about the generators?

      If cyber terrorism from afar can instruct the generator to destroy itself so that onsite minders don’t know it’s happening until it’s too late there is no electricity to “step down.” The transformers become moot.

      In 2009 the Wall Street Journal ran an article about cyber terrorism and the electrical grid. So yes, it can happen.

      No electricity. No heat. No light. No refrigeration. No ATMs. No gas pumps. No traffic lights. No power tools after a few hours. No nothing. Hello mid-Eighteenth Century for one very long time. The willfully ignorant, the people who couldn’t be bothered to prepare, are screwed.

      You don’t hafta share my belief that the Power Elite, who I defined a few posts back, intend a die-off. Millions of people will die off.

      Unless those who have prepared can be cajoled or forced to give them a do_over.

      Well fine, if the disaster is finite. Temporary. If it isn’t “sharing” equals death for mine. Then my response becomes Molon Labe. Your response too, I suspect.

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      • I said this already but will say it again. One thing I have been thinking and thought even more after reading the same thought process in the book “One Second After”, is that we would not be living like they did in the 19 or even 18th century. They had an infrastructure set up for that style of living and they had the knowledge and know how….we for the most part do not. And especially not to support 320 Million people. The old ways of living and doing things and even the tools and equipment are lost and gone…..no I believe the estimates that 80-90% of the population would be dead in 12 months

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    86. Bloodyfellow says:

      The Great Spirit, in a time not known to us looked about and saw nothing. No colors, no beauty. Time was silent in darkness. There was no sound. Nothing could be seen or felt. The Great Spirit decided to fill this space with light and life.

      From his great power he commanded the sparks of creation. He ordered Tôlba, the Great Turtle to come from the waters and become the land. The Great Spirit molded the mountains and the valleys on turtle’s back. He put white clouds into the blue skies. He was very happy.He said, “Everything is ready now. I will fill this place with the happy movement of life.”He thought and thought about what kind of creatures he would make.

      Where would they live? What would they do? What would their purpose be? He wanted a perfect plan. He thought so hard that he became very tired and fell asleep.

      His sleep was filled with dreams of his creation. He saw strange things in his dream. He saw animals crawling on four legs, some on two. Some creatures flew with wings, some swam with fins. There were plants of all colors, covering the ground everywhere. Insects buzzed around, dogs barked, birds sang, and human beings called to each other. Everything seemed out of place. The Great Spirit thought he was having a bad dream. He thought, nothing could be this imperfect.

      When the Great Spirit awakened, he saw a beaver nibbling on a branch. He realized the world of his dream became his creation. Everything he dreamed about came true. When he saw the beaver make his home, and a dam to provide a pond for his family to swim in, he then knew every thing has it’s place, and purpose in the time to come.

      It has been told among our people from generation to generation. We must not question our dreams. They are our creation.

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    87. Dead Duck says:

      ChiefEOD,
      The difference between my grand parents living without electricity and having tough times is thatr was the reality of the day. There was no infrastructure in place…. and then taken away. They did not live in a society which addicted us to the “just in time” food supply or the rest of our modern comforts.

      Reading all these posts about people wanting to stock up on food, and feed their families and assuming that I will beg them for something to eat….. sounds like a really really bad time.

      Humans can be compassionate, but humans are animals and humans can and will abuse each other for survial and fun. Every human on Earth is the same. We are no better thna the humans in Africa who are doing unpspeakable things to each other.

      If our society collapses and people become aniamls, and we are only safe of remote farms….. I want no part of that. I do not want to trun away hungry people, I do not want to fight off hungry people, I have lived during the best time in human history, and it has been awesome…IT STILL IS AWESOME……. but thigs are looking shakiy…the deficit and China and the way of the world…. it is scary..

      I have done my part to be a good human. I have contributed my fair share, but if the cheater and liars and stealers at the top want to ruin this deal…. I am out. and I would juts like an easy painless way to do it…. or i

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    88. dreamer8280 says:

      anyone here have a spiritual dream about the New Madrid fault shaking, and the TVA and electricitiy going down for months?

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    89. I haven’t myself, but have talked with literally dozens on the survivalistboards.com that have had a lot of dreams lately all about the same thing….and they are scattered all over the country….weird!

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    90. I think we are going to have a good sized earthquake this week

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      • anonymous says:

        Who is we and where?

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        • anonymous says:

          I work for an insurance company and I want to be rich.

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        • We as in America….radon adn radiation look to be heavy above Yellowstone adn some above the new madrid…northern part of it anyway (Indiana)
          There is an alignment this week and a partial eclipse along with sun spots and cme’s to boot…no guarantees, never i s but chances are elevated extrememly for a significant earthquake this week, meaning anything bigger than a 5.
          Solarwatcher (aka the barcaroller) on youtube had a good video for it the other day

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    91. David says:

      I live in the country on 5 acres, have my own shooting range. I’m also a NRA instructor for conceal carry. Our sheriff had me start a Auxiliary Deputy program. One reason, if the crap hits the fan the city scum will come to the country to take whatever they can.
      If you think just because you’re in the country all will be well you’re nuts and you’re going to be a target. We hope to stop them at the county line and when we say stop we mean STOP. But some will get through and if you don’t have a plan you will be a sitting duck for a group of city scum. If the president declares marshal law he can take away your guns, that is if you’re a deputy or cop. That’s where our sheriff’s program comes in, he said he will deputize the whole county if needed.
      My neighbors and I will congregate in one home to defend. I have many weapons and buy my rounds by he case (thousand per case) but if you’re the only one you’re dead meat. Their plan was ok as long as no one from the city comes into the country, fat chance on that.

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    92. Really says:

      David,
      What a delightful time you hope to have as you “”stop them at the county line and when we say stop we mean STOP.””

      “”My neighbors and I will congregate in one home to defend. I have many weapons and buy my rounds by he case (thousand per case) but if you’re the only one you’re dead meat.””

      Do you think that sounds civilized?
      Is that living? How odd that it sounds like you actually hope, and aspire, to this life style.

      Do you practice saying “I AM THE LAW!!”

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    93. great then you’ll have a bunch of people running around acting like the leo’s do….like they are God…so they are going to shoot anyone coming towards the country..that’s real American. In a shtf scenario…the leo’s are going to be one of the ones to mainly look out for

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    94. Hey all,

      I’m an Oregonian transplanted to rural Montana some eight years ago. We’ve taught ourselves to raise sheep and are specializing in the orphans. FYI for those of you on small acreages and needing a beastie of burden, consider sheep. A sheep can be taught to do just about anything. Many of the commercial breeds are about the size of a shetland pony but without the ‘kick-me’ factor. They don’t bite, and they are diverse grazers that can handle steep ground. They consume less than a horse or oxen. They can provide meat, milk, wool, labor, and aesthetic value. Bums (orphans) are easy to come by and usually very inexpensive but you’ll need several because of high mortality in bums, a dry place, not too warm, to raise them and some time. Our small flock has a number of individuals who do double duty on our place. They haul wood and other small loads, pull a garden cart, and a dog sled in winter. You can put a harness together using old used horse circingles and miscellaneous strappings. Dog chains can be used for the side pulls depending on the configuration you need for what your critter is pulling. And fyi, the males (rams) are better far behaved when they have something to do when not breeding. Nothing worse than a ramzilla. Teach the kids to work them in a harness and you’ll know the kids are doing something useful and most likely out of trouble.

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    95. Oh, and I just had another thought. You know everyone talks about holing up in their place when shtf. But the truth is that unless you are part of a coherent community that is resourceful enough to hold together in really tough times, the truth is even those who are prepared won’t make it permanently. Eventually you WILL need something and have to venture out or the risks involved in being overrun by larger groups who can’t find networks of communities that can be bartered with, etc and thus resort to whole sale raiding. Think Ghengis Khan…groups can travel long long ways…and while guns & ammo can equalize for a period, eventually everyone will need some sort of civilization. Why not spend time thinking about how to create infrastructure based on a shtf situation. Get to know your neighbors and find out what they would be willing or capable of contributing to create infrastructure. Information gathering and planning on nuclear communities could be done now. Perhaps people won’t be prepared but it’s amazing what you can create out of nothing. Start with something simple like a community bazar or saturday market where people could come and set up tables and trade or sell stuff for free. Encourage those who know a skill to teach there…maybe it’s learning for .50 cents a seat. But the information dissemination is priceless. And who know’s that time spent might cause others to think or to have some idea of what to do or where to begin in self-reliance when s does htf. Right now people should be taking proposal town or city councils about creating and stocking bulk food storage facilities. Forget the road remodels and sink money into fallback facilities. Other items towns should be setting up with is fuel, equipment, and hand tools. Especially hand tools. Trowels are cheap and can be distributed to groups of people with seeds that grow quickly like spinach or potatos. Plans can be suggested that in a shtf situation, no grass allowed in town…on victory gardens & food type trees. Systematic plots could be installed even now if town councils considered offering some sort of incentive…like maybe free water bill or no city taxes. Communities should be trying to encourage craftsmen and artisans to set up shop…and everyone with a skill of some sort should be participating in the old apprenticeship to journeymen system used in the 1700s. A good book to find: Colonial Craftsmen by Tunis. It shows many of the tools in each important skill and trade for the level of civilization we’ll be thrown back to. A community must not just think about survival but also about what it will take to rebuild. Some of the population will need to be dedicated to working on the problems associated with that. Every community should be beginning a library of such texts if they don’t already have one. If rural towns surrounding the cities had plans to sort, distribute, and integrate refugees as a labor & skill resource, even if they had to apprentice them somewhere first, maybe many more communities might have a chance in a shtf situtation. People are all talk tho and no do. But hey, everyone will be forced to use their brains at some point in all this now, won’t they? We watched a city pull together during 9-11…it can be done again, on a bigger scale. Think guys, think. And for crying out loud don’t wait till yer tail feathers are on fire.

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    96. mrknowitall says:

      Don’t see one person talkin about leavin the grand ol USSA. Me? Bought a ranch in Colombia. That’s right COLOMBIA. You know, Cartels, Salsa, Cocaine. OHHH scary. Please don’t come down here. It’s so dangerous. Have been shipping my assets over there for a decade now, just got my new passport. Going back in 10 days to close a deal on equipment to rent out for farmers in the coffee business. I speak enough spanish and the collapse is going to be for America mostly, the rest of the world will do just fine.

      I’ve seen this shit coming for 15 yrs and have warned and warned but the drones want war, dancing with the stars and xbox. Let em have it. It’ll be great. It’ll be cathartic. Let’s get this party started!

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      • REB says:

        I hope it works out for you,I wouldn count on it though….you cant just take down the biggest economic engine on the planet and expect other nations to have smooth sailing….I could be all wrong but…..we’ll see!

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      • VRF says:

        Hell you dont even know how to Spell the dam country’s name correctly!

        Its Columbia..and how pray tell do you think your going to “get there” are you able to foretell the future within a given day or hour..last time i checked there is a shit load of land and water between here and ColUmbia..

        I have things set up for me down In Peru’ but im realistic enough to know that if im here when TSHTF..theres no way im going to make it to what I have down there..

        Maybe you need to leave Now!..

        make sure they spell the country right on your plane ticket

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        • VRF says:

          Im sorry..Im wrong..it is Colombia..My bad, spelled it the same way as the university or the town in Cali..my bad..

          but my other questions still stand, and not out of malace, out of interest..like I said i also have a place in Peru’ but I was figuring if i want there when the SHTF here, how the hell would i get there…enlighten me please

          and when i said maybe its time to leave now, i wasnt joking or making light of this..how do we know when to go?

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    97. Tracy, Canada says:

      WHAT YOU DON’T COUNT ON is that in case of catastrophe hordes of city folk will invade the countryside. Hungry people lose their humanity. Only the most ruthless will survive.

      Perhaps having enough water and nuts to live on, a city dweller can barricade himself in his condo for a couple of years at least.

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    98. YOURDADDY:
      I seen that, along with a 4.0 in Puerto Rico….I think the alignment and partial moon eclipse is this week also……heads up

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    99. Anonymous says:

      Seek help BJ or take a bottle of colon flush. Maybe both.

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    100. ScoutMotto says:

      I admire the rural folks for how they are so tight knit. At least you know who you can trust or not. I live in a city and aside from my family, not sure who I can trust. I know a handful of people who are like-minded when it comes to survival and preparedness.

      Anyone watch the series Jericho? The folks in that town seemed to know how to stick together. Sure it’s fiction, but the plot seemed a rather plausible one in real life.

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    101. I believe we have it wrong on the Fema camps btw… Take the Nasa preparadness video… I think the camps (which is probably where all the dehydraded food has been going) are where they are going to house people they are going to feed and the families of Gov workers. Ie …the camps keep everyone else out…. truthfully… the Ready.gov commercials on the air is telling us our world is going to turn upside down and we are on our own… while they may take care of “their own” and the rest have to just figure it out…. There is 0 civil defense these days, 0 disaster planning in communities… Think about it…?

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    102. : ) love incarnate says:

      lets hope the fema camps are for the evil fucks, you know, before they get sentenced by a civilian war trial :) :)
      evil; ie, the templar/pfitzer/monsanto/usda

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