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    Assembling Your Home Armory

    Dick Clark
    August 13th, 2011
    www.LewRockwell.com
    Comments (242)
    Read by 4,108 people

    This article was accessed via The Daily Crux and was originally published at www.LewRockwell.com. It has been generously contributed for your reading pleasure by author Dick Clark.


    Some folks collect guns and never shoot them. Some people acquire guns for the sake of owning them, showing them off to others, and generally babying them. It was due to these people that the term “safe queen” was coined. There is nothing wrong with collecting things. And with guns in particular, all you have to do is buy one to find out that it is hard to be satisfied with just one gun. But some of us don’t have the money, time, or interest to indiscriminately accumulate a collection of firearms as an end unto itself. We want to assemble an array of firearms qua tools, suitable for the variety of applications for which we anticipate needing that sort of tool. Each person’s lot in life is different, so no single list of “must have” guns can be truly authoritative.


    Possible uses for firearms

    Guns are useful for lots of different things: hunting, home defense, personal protection outside the home, paramilitary operations, and target shooting. These different applications present their own unique demands, and the firearm that is best suited for one is often ill-suited for the others.

    A hunter in the swamps of lower Alabama will never have the opportunity to take a thousand yard shot in that area because the ground cover is too dense and elevations don’t provide a vantage point from which to make such a long shot on game in that region. A rifle that is capable of accurately throwing a bullet that far can be a fun hobby gun for such an individual, provided he has access to a long-distance shooting range, but the extra weight of a bull barrel, adjustable stock, large optics, and other accouterments reduce mobility. Likewise, a varminter in “big sky country” might find a .22 pistol utterly useless for shooting critters to which he never gets closer than seventy-five yards. We can look at the different classes of firearms and determine which of these fits into our lives and what qualities we should look for in a specimen from each relevant class.

    Some guns are designed to perform very well in a limited, specific role. For example, the rifle carried by a modern biathelete is a creature of the competition context and the sport’s rules: .22 caliber, at least 7.5 pounds in weight, highly adjustable stock, short lock time, and capability to operate reliably in cold, snowy conditions. While these specifications may make such a rifle a good rabbit gun and an excellent target gun, a shorter, lighter gun with fewer frills can be had for far less money and still serve well in those roles.

    Weapon engagement zones

    weapon engagement zone (WEZ) is a space of defined dimensions within which a particular weapon is to bear primary responsibility for engaging targets. The best way to think about this is the “sweet spot” for each weapon – the range for which the weapon is optimized. Working our way out from CQBdistances to long-range, a variety of different firearms present themselves as most suited for each zone: concealable handgun, full-frame handgun, shotgun,assault riflebattle rifle, precision rifle, and heavy precision rifle.

    The outer zones beyond 800 yards are likely not of concern to individuals primarily occupied with home defense preparations. My suggestion is to prepare for the innermost zones – mousegun, full-size handgun, and shotgun – first and then work through to the outer zones as needed given your particular geographical and socio-political contexts and whatever shooting or hunting sports you enjoy.

    (NB: Firearms of each class are capable of sending rounds well past their optimal WEZ – sometimes several miles farther – so always be sure of your target and what is beyond it.)


    Handguns

    Handguns are lightest and smallest, and they are the firearms best suited for close-in confrontations and personal protection while outside of one’s home. Handguns are also near the top of the list for home defense, since they can typically be fired with one hand, meaning that your other hand is free to manipulate doorknobs and light switches or to fend off an attacker as you bring the muzzle to bear. And of course, they are easier to carry on your person or in your car than would be even the smallest shotguns or rifles.

    The most easily concealable handguns are small and light for convenient everyday carry, an important consideration, but their diminutive size limits their firepower in terms of ammunition type and ammunition capacity. Compared to full-size pistols, affordable mouseguns like the Kel-Tec P3AT and Ruger LCP are tougher to shoot, with sights that are harder to see, heavier trigger pulls, and less gun to hold onto. Casual shooters will find it very difficult to reliably connect using these pocket pistols at ranges greater than ten yards. Full-size handguns, like the SIG Sauer P226 or Glock 17, are much easier to shoot well, with the novice shooter likely maxing out at around thirty or forty yards. Many handguns, especially larger models chambered in major calibers, are also useful for hunting a variety of game.


    I offered more substantial advice for first-time handgun buyers in a previous article.

    Shotguns

    Shotguns are versatile weapons that may be used for hunting, sport shooting, or defensive purposes within forty or fifty yards. They are very different from rifles and handguns in that their barrels aren’t usually “rifled” – grooved so as to impart a stabilizing spin to a projectile – they are capable of projecting a pattern of pellets rather than a single projectile, and they operate at much lower chamber pressures. A shotgun may be loaded with many different types of ammunition: smaller, more numerous shot pellets for smaller game, larger “buckshot” pellets or slugs for larger quarry, and a variety of specialty rounds including less lethal options, breaching loads, and others. Shotgun rounds that fire multiple projectiles in a pattern make it much, much easier to shoot moving targets like birds and squirrels.

    Shotgun projectiles are propelled at a relatively slow velocity. Although they are capable of imparting more energy into a target at close range than are pistol rounds, this energy dissipates with smaller shot sizes that make for a vastly greater surface area for the same total mass. As a result, a shotgun may be a good choice where over-penetration is a concern, such as in a home defense scenario. Be advised thought that, like pistol and rifle bullets, shotgun slugs and buckshot are capable of penetrating multiple interior walls and still retaining enough energy to injure or kill. According to one writer’s tests we can expect the following penetration characteristics:

    Type Equivalent interior walls penetrated
    12 gauge shotgun, 2 ¾” birdshot 1
    12 gauge shotgun, 2 ¾” #4 buck 3
    12 gauge shotgun, 2 ¾” #1 buck 3
    12 gauge shotgun, 2 ¾” 00 buck 4
    12 gauge shotgun, 2 ¾” 1 oz rifled slug 6+
    .22 LR pistol 3
    9mm pistol 6+
    .45 ACP pistol 6+
    5.56 x 45mm rifle 6+

    Additionally, the pattern of shot thrown by a shotgun gives the shooter a greater chance of scoring a hit within the weapon’s effective range, with the pattern spreading out to three to six feet in diameter at forty yards, depending on the choke used and other variables. Rifled slugs greatly improve a shotgun’s potential for accuracy at longer ranges and make the gun more useful for taking large game. An advantage of the common pump shotgun models – the Remington 870 and Mossberg 500 – besides the multitude of readily available accessories, is that the barrels are easily swapped out, and additional barrels are readily available in local gun stores or for purchase from internet vendors. This means that budget-minded individuals can buy a sporting shotgun with a longer barrel more useful for hunting and later, for a modest sum, purchase a shorter barrel more suited to defensive applications.

    Assault rifles

    From fifty yards to two hundred fifty yards, no weapon is better suited for quick, accurate defensive shooting than the assault rifle or its semi-automatic civilian equivalent, the modern sporting rifle. Firing intermediate power rifle cartridges like the 5.56 x 45mm and 7.62 x 39mm, rifles of this type – first developed in the early twentieth century – don’t quite have the power of a traditional hunting rifle. However, these cartridges are much shorter and lighter than their full powered counterparts, meaning that it is easier to carry more of them, a very good thing if you are expecting a gun fight. The lower recoil from these intermediate power cartridges also means that the user can send follow up shots downrange more rapidly than a full power rifle’s recoil impulse would allow.

    Full power rifle rounds are accurate out to distances of 800 yards or more, but the trajectories of bullets fired from AR and AK-type rifles drop quickly after a couple of hundred yards. Even so, assault rifles are far more accurate than pistols. They are much more powerful, too, with the 5.56 x 45mm round from an AR capable of transferring three to four times as much energy into a target as the 9 x 19mm round. These rifles are also capable of bringing down game as large as a deer, though the conventional wisdom is that the 5.56 x 45mm round is undersized for humanely harvesting deer.

    There are many options available to American buyers, with the AR and AK designs being the most popular – and most controversial – exemplars of this class. Because of their popularity, magazines and accessories for these models are readily available. Other options include Ruger’s venerable Mini-14 and Mini Thirty rifles, the featherweight Kel-Tec SU-16, and the ultra-affordable SKS, the standard version of which has a fixed magazine which must be reloaded one round at a time or with stripper clips.

    Battle rifles

    Battle rifles are easily differentiated from assault rifles by comparing the potency of the rounds they fire, ammunition capacity, and weight. Rather than firing an intermediate cartridge like the assault rifles, battle rifles fire full-powered cartridges like the .30-06 Springfield, 7.62 x 51mm, or the Russian 7.62 x 54mmR. Although these cartridges are heavier than the intermediate cartridges, they are far more powerful and capable of reliably bringing down targets at greater ranges. The 7.62 x 51mm cartridge, for example, is capable of communicating twice as much energy into a target as the 5.56 x 45mm. Penetration through cover is far superior as well, and the effective range of the 7.62 x 51mm is 800 yards or greater. Battle rifles are capable of reaching and neutralizing tougher and more distant targets than assault rifles, but this comes at the cost of higher recoil, smaller magazine capacities, and heavier, more expensive ammunition.

    These rifles are not as abundant on the American market as AK and AR rifles, but many options are available. Some shooters, particularly those who enjoy an AR-15, swear by rifles patterned off of Eugene Stoner’s AR-10 design. Others are convinced that the Springfield M1A is the best battle rifle to be had. The Heckler & Koch G3 and Fabrique Nationale FAL have their own factions of devotees as well. The Spanish CETME rifle is an affordable option that shouldn’t be overlooked, especially since many of the parts are interchangeable with G3 components, both guns having been developed in a collaboration between H&K designer Ludwig Vorgrimler and the Spanish government small arms establishment. The new, hard-to-find Kel-Tec RFB from George Kellgren employs an ambidextrous bullpup design and molded polymer components for a shorter, lighter battle rifle suitable for urban environments. It is worth noting, however, that some folks argue that all bullpup designs are fundamentally flawed.

    An excellent bargain still readily available on the surplus market due to miscalculation by twentieth century communist central-planners is the Soviet Mosin-Nagant rifle. This bolt-action rifle been in continuous service in one part of the world or another since 1891. It has a much lower rate of fire than the semi-automatic battle rifles listed above, but it can be had at a price that is nearly an order of magnitude cheaper: about $100. Surplus 7.62 x 54mmR ammunition is relatively inexpensive and widely available, just be warned that you will experience variations in quality and performance.

    Precision rifles

    Precision rifles are rifles mechanically capable of shooting groups that are one minute of angle or better within the rifle’s intended engagement zone. Such a rifle will, in the hands of a proficient marksman, post shot groups smaller than one inch at a hundred yards. If chambered for a full power cartridge, like 7.62 x 51mm, and fitted with adequate optics, these sorts of rifles can reliably hit man-sized targets out to 800 yards and beyond. Since the 7.62 x 51mm cartridge (called “.308 Winchester” on the adoring commercial market) is a NATO standard round, it is widely available, as are ballistics tables and other information on the many different .308 loads. Modern battle rifles are typically chambered for this ammunition type, so the same ammunition will fire in both sorts of rifles. Be advised, though, that ammunition specifically intended for use in a precision rifle will be manufactured to tighter tolerances and is much more expensive than military surplus rounds that are just fine for a battle rifle.

    Many modern bolt-action deer rifles would serve well in this role, as has been proven by the military track records of the Remington Model 700 and the Winchester Model 70, the former of which was the basis for the United States Army’s M24 and the United States Marine Corps’ M40, and the latter of which was used for a number of years by U.S. Army and Marine snipers, including the legendary Carlos Hathcock. An excellent choice in class is the Savage Model 10FP, which boasts an extremely strong action and features an adjustable trigger assembly, free-floated barrel, and other accuracy enhancing features.

    Hathcock’s 1967 record-setting 2500-yard single-shot kill with his Browning M2 machine gun and Unertl scope inspired gun-makers to create a new class of heavy precision rifle based around the .50 BMG cartridge. The cartridge was originally designed by John Browning for anti-aircraft use at the end of the first world war, but as a scaled-up version of the successful .30-06 Springfield cartridge it had the potential for excellent accuracy at previously inconceivable ranges. Barrett Firearms Manufacturing is far and away the best known maker of fifty caliber rifles. These extreme long-range capabilities come at a price, both in terms of weight – 25–30 pounds to lug around – and price – $3500–$8000 before you’ve even bought the requisite optics or the $3/round ammunition. The size of the .50 BMG round also means that there is a tremendous recoil impulse to deal with, something that Barrett and other designers tackle with gargantuan muzzle brakes. While the Barrett brake is very effective in taming the recoil generated by the .50 BMG, it does so by directing a substantial amount of pressure and noise back towards the shooter, kicking up a sizable dust cloud, and making serious (perhaps even redundant) ear and eye protection absolutely mandatory for safe shooting.

    A more portable and more cost-effective substitute for the .50 BMG rifles can be had in rifles chambered for the .338 Lapua Magnumcartridge. The .338 was conceived of in 1989 specifically for use in long-range sniper rifles, and since its inception it has proven effective in that role, with the longest .338 Lapua Magnum kill logged at 2707 yards by a British sniper in 2009. The Savage 110 BA is a nicely equipped .338. With a sticker price of nearly $2000 it represents the lower end of what one might expect to spend on a precision rifle built around this special purpose round.

    All precision rifles, no matter how finely tuned, depend on the skill of the shooters employing them. Mastering the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship can guarantee that a shooter connects with his targets within a few hundred yards, but at longer ranges an assortment of factors affect the trajectory of a bullet, including wind, temperature, and humidity. At extreme ranges, gyroscopic drift and even therotation of the Earth may have to be accounted for in plotting a point of aim. While the ticket price for these rifles is substantial, accumulating the knowledge and experience necessary to take full advantage of their capabilities is even more daunting.


    Practice

    Before tying up a substantial sum in a precision rifle with all the bells and whistles, it is worthwhile to establish good shooting habits through lots of practice. A .22 LR rifle can be had for a very modest sum and fires a low-recoil, inexpensive, and ubiquitous ammunition type that is perfect for getting lots of practice. Although the extremely successful Ruger 10/22 semi-automatic rifle is more versatile for applications like small game hunting, as an old Boy Scout I prefer the bolt-action rifles with which I learned basic marksmanship. The process of opening the breach, manually loading each round, sliding the bolt forward, and locking the bolt down before firing incentivizes the shooter to make each shot count. This works to counteract the urge that a frustrated or excited shooter might have to just start banging away without really concentrating on trigger control, breath control, and sight picture.

    Author Dick Clark is an attorney who lives in the American Great Plains region.

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    Author: Dick Clark
    Views: Read by 4,108 people
    Date: August 13th, 2011
    Website: http://www.LewRockwell.com/

    Copyright Information: This content has been contributed to SHTFplan by a third-party or has been republished with permission from the author. Please contact the author directly for republishing information.

     

    242 Comments...

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    1. Copout says:

      Slobbering all over myself looking at some of these photos, viewer and posting discretion is advised!

      • You took the words right out of my mouth.

      • Odd Questioner says:

        Yep, they’re pretty… but unless you know how to use them, and have ample ammunition, they’re worse than worthless.

        I’ve seen a .50 BMG take down small trees, but the guy who owned it had to spend a mint in supplies to keep it fed and clean. Needless to say he never really got that good with it, because after laying out $4k for the weapon, he couldn’t afford to buy a whole lot of ammunition for it *and* have enough time/ammunition to keep his skills up on all the other guns he had.

        Personally, and on the cheap, a workable setup out here in the Western US? I have a solid pistol that I know very well (.45 ACP), a solid shotgun (12 ga modified choke, pump action), a good intermediate range rifle (.30-06), and a good long-distance rifle (Ruger .338, which I originally used for Elk hunting). For the missus, a Beretta 9mm as her pistol (which she first used in the Army), completes the pile.

        No need for a ‘spray and pray’ gun IMHO, and no need for a tank killer (.50 BMG), since one is only good if I’m on the offensive, and the other is only good if I’m going after military vehicles or the occasional rabid Woolly Mammoth.

        The only exception I would think would be to get hold of a Mini-14 or two, which would be a good all-around short-range gun.

        Something not mentioned at all in the article? Crossbows and regular hunting bows. I know, out of scope, etc… but really, in a SHTF situation, a skill in stealth and a good bow+arrow kit can do a lot more psychological damage than a portable chain gun. The ammunition is also relatively re-usable.

      • sanityjones says:

        You can’t eat guns.

      • Dave says:

        All of you realize that info about your weapons is being mined from these comments, right?

    2. Sheepdog says:

      When building the arsenal, think about practicality… Not flashy fads. You are better off with a humble and reliable gun and a ton load of commitment to effective training with your system, than you are with a few highly ‘capable’ guns and insufficient training. I know a guy who esteems himself a ZOMBIE KILLER. Against my advice, he equipped himself for the apocalypse with a walmart 30-06 and a machete…. What the heck? For the same cash, he could have an SKS, 1000 rounds, 6 mags, battle harness, and a nifty knife. Oh, he has no idea what his bolt gun will do with that Tasco scope at 350 or even 200 yards.
      Moral of the story is a highly trained gun fighter can do more with a single shot 22 Cricket than a novice with an AR. I think its the SEALS who say, ‘One mind, any weapon.’ Get the weapon you need, not want. Get a ton of ammo, mags, spare parts. Get REAL training and devote at least three weekly, 30 minute sessions to predictive DRY FIRE DRILLS. This will build skills. Become a gun fighter. Handguns and long guns. Remember, dry drills are more beneficial than blowing rounds; regarding combat skills. But most won’t do it. You decide.

      • Bloodyfellow says:

        (Dick Clark) What a great article!

        Sheepdog: I was going to go there but you nailed it. I have met my share of (ZOMBIE KILLERS) and I will let someone else pop their bubble! A well trained teenager with a single shot 22 Cricket is more then capable of doing the job.

        • Sheepdog says:

          Thanks blood man. Interesting how people sometimes treat this stuff as only a hobby. The difference for me came when I made a family. I put the Rambo knife and straight razor away and got serious. Without a real WHY, the perspective tends to be influenced by trends and TV, pop culture. Once I got to the real training, it changed my perspective on the average level trained man or woman. I was that man for quite a few years. I really thought I was tough. Well, I am no Superman, but the years have accumulated for my skill set, and oddly, I have worked more in the last three than in the prior twelve. The moral is that, we should work at NOT overestimating our skills. The more you learn, the more you are based in reality than in assumptions. Learn your limitations and exploit them. Every tactical, physical element of any combat maneuver needs to accomplish at least two tasks. Its like your gear, all items are multiuse and on purpose. now I am rambling like an idiot… KEEP I.S. STUPID

        • Beefcake says:

          I’ve also heard the phrase “mall ninjas” when referring to people who shell out wads of cash for tacti-cool stuff but have no clue how to use it all effectively. It’s pretty sad when I see someone with a $1000+ AR who is struggling to hit stuff at 100 yards and I’m pegging gongs with a Mosin Nagant at 400 yards with no optics (that’s after I fixed that damn front sight post issue some are notorious for having).

      • You nailed it Sheepdog!

        The article above is a fine article but after about the first paragraph, 90% of of the general population glazed over.

        For novices, I still preach 3 guns: Shotgun, Pistol, Rifle, 12ga, 9mm, 22lr, 500 rnds, 1000 rnds, 2000 rnds.

        You can go cheap with a H&R single shot 20ga, a Hi-Point C9 and a Marlin model 60. That will run you a street price of less than $400 for the guns and about the same for the ammo.

        If you got plenty of cash, can go with a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 12ga riot gun, a Glock 40 and a Ruger 10/22. (…and if you do have that money, why not add a Ruger Mini 14 or an AR15 to the mix…)

        If you’re experienced with guns, the above article isn’t really necessary but its fun to read. If you’re inexperience with guns you’ll get lost and confused. The article above is more for guntards and we do appreciate it. Its more entertainment than real information usable for SHTF purposes.

        What we need are good articles to show common, non-gun people what they need. Talking about weapons engagement zones and precision rifles is a TOTAL WASTE OF TIME. If they had a rifle capable of a 1000 yard shot, they’d never be able to understand the dynamics of making that shot on a perfectly calm day during perfect visibility and zero mirage.

        • Glacierdude says:

          What we need are good articles to show common, non-gun people what they need.

          When you find such a web site, let me know. I am in the novice catagory and want to learn.

          • Sheepdog says:

            You are asking the right question but maybe the answer is not what you might think, and depends who you ask. The best you could do is to find an Operator who is highly effective with your platform or platforms of choice. Short of that, an intelligent search for that info is a little involved and takes patience. If you have not yet bought your gun so yet, look at a Striped Down version of the AR, research heavily on the mfgr of the barrel and guts of the upper. NO TACTICAL CRAP. one or two point sling, Magpul mags, a basic chest rig with aCamelbak, and 3000 rounds. That will get you started on learning. if you are on the cheap, then get an SKS and same other gear. There are finger points where the AR will outperform the SKS and AK, but your skills have to be pretty high to actually appreciate the difference. Avoid water cooler arguments about the gear. Now, the training….. Apart from joining a rifle team (I don’t mean paintball warriors or gear nerds who talk a lot and hang out in camo, and call that training), you gotta do out yourself. If you can, bring a few new guys up to speed with you, that saves time later, but hard to get commitment. Okay-….you will need a couple dvds, books, a private room and a place to shoot. Be careful which ones you choose, cause you might get trained by an idiot. So which ones? Based on your platform and your preferred fighting style, get material from these guys. Read Some old Jeff Cooper and some off the old legends. Take a few classes on basic marksmanship, build your combat shooting on that. Do research on these terms….FIELD READY, LOW READY, HIGH READY, DOUBLE TAP, SUPPRESSIVE FIRE, SEARCHING FIRE, MONICA POSITION (thats right, kneeling baby!), Supine, tactical reload, failure drill. Get through all those web searches, you’ll probably end up in the same school of thought as me. Those aren’t MY preferences, those are about half of the essentials that any relevant gun fighter wool DRY TRAIN WITH. commit to dry training a lot, and do it. Otherwise, buy a double barrel and spend the rest on beans and binoculars. Hope that helps.

        • JustWokeUp says:

          One venerable gun left off the list and which is still available thru a govt sponsored program setup by Teddy Roosevelt, is the M1 Garand! Semi-auto 30-06 accurate attractive guns. Checkout the Civilian Marksmanship Program, or CMP. No, I don’t work there. I bought a korean era Garand that shoots 2″ groups with surplus ammo and I love it.

          General Info link
          http://www.odcmp.com/

          SALES LINK
          http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/rifles.htm

        • scott says:

          I’ve seen well trained folks who read everything and who had been on the range who couldn’t make a 500 meter qual shot.You can either do it or you can’t. I loved the 500 meter line because it was where I could relax and squeeze off the rounds to qual as expert.

      • greaseman says:

        good advice, nicely put.

    3. Copout says:

      Had a British . 303 I picked up a gun show for 80 bucks some years ago. Ammo is still cheap an a excellent rifle and cartridge. If you have the opportunity grab one I would snatch it up. Lee Enfieldmark 4 w/fixed bayonet lug.

    4. Good stuff here… …You don’t need an expensive “arsenal” (but it’s nice:)

      Just one or two good quality firearms is sufficient for home protection and hunting.

    5. Letsdoit! says:

      One should have a pistol and a arifle and a shotgun .Pistol and shotgun for close work and the rifle to reach out and touch someone .
      any 30-06 or .308 or even .270 will do the job .Rifles like the ar15 , ar10, ak47, sks, etc,etc, can throw more lead out faster .but the key is shot placement and the ability to hit a target .i have seen a remington out of the box wallmart special speacial in .270 beat a guy next to him with a 2,000 dollar rifle set-up .the other guy had a .308 that was cutomised. Even though the .270 scope was rather cheap and the rifle was all stock , it can shoot . Just because you have bigger and better doesnt always mean that it makes you the better shooter . I had a guy challenge me at ther ange a few years back .We both had old bolt action stock military rifles .He had a bolt action 03a3 and i had a swiss k31 .I cleaned his clock at 300 yard shooting , we were both useing stock military sights and he was useing custom reloads and i was useing factory k31 ammunition (raug). I bought the rifle for 125 bucks and the other guy bought his for 750.00 bucks .Im not the best shooter in the world and dont claim to be .But if you practise with what you have , You can be a good shooter with practise .

    6. Question for you guys.

      After watching the rioting in the UK, I’ve come to the conclusion that the old adage of fighting your way to your rifle just might not be the case and your sidearm might be your primary weapon in a WROL situation.

      Just my thought…wondering what you all think.

      • Jim says:

        Definitely correct assumption, IMO. If we all carried battle rifles with us when we shop or drive around doing our work, there’d be no rioting people assaulting us. The handgun on your belt is unobtrusive, ‘there’ when you need it, and worthy of the task required: insuring you’re safely out of the area.
        To believe that adage is to not understand that once you’ve left the ‘difficult’ area, you’re safe and have no need of the battle rifle. Unless you want to go back and start a firefight- and make yourself a target for the po-po.

      • Havok says:

        Don’t leave your rifle behind.

    7. FYI: we had a little hiccup with WordPress and may have lost a few comments in the last 15 – 20 minutes. My apologies to those who may have taken the time to contribute and lost their comment.

      Mac

    8. Cyber_Samurai says:

      I have seen that Mosin-Nagant for $73. I’ve shot them a lot. I’m here to tell you, a person who knows what they are doing can drive nails with that thing! They are awesome. Also, get three firing at the same time, and you WILL wake the neighbors. Don’t ask me how I know!!!

      • Jonny V says:

        You’re right, and with the steel core ammo, the Mosin can be utilized to stop cars by shooting the engine blocks. I’ve been working on car-stopping for a little while now, and the only better options basically comes down to a 50 BMG. Well, you can have hundreds of rounds of 7.62 MN for $150, or you can have about 30 rounds of 50 BMG for the same price.

        Is the 50 BMG more reliable in the role? Sure it is. Can you afford $2000 for the rifle and $5-7 per round after that? How about if you could buy the rifle and 440 rounds of ammo for less than $300 bucks……

        Other thoughts….

        Everyone needs a .22 auto loader. 10/22 is the most popular and has the most aftermarket stuff available, but the Rem 597 is a good weapon also.

        You need a combat shotgun and at least 1000 rounds of 00 buckshot. There are really only two options, Rem 870 or Mossberg 500 (?). Either one will save your ass. 750 rounds of 1 oz. slugs will provide some small insurance…Don’t waste your money on a rifled shotgun barrel.

        You need a handgun chambered in either 9mm or 45 acp, doesn’t really matter which. Both are very common. Practice a lot with it.

        An assault weapon (black rifle) (AR 15, AK 47) should be your last priority. You need a scoped deer rifle (270 is a GREAT caliber by the by) for worse.

      • Babble-on says:

        Yea, but don’t use inexpensive steel jacketed(?) rounds because half of them won’t easily slide into the breech.

        • Jonny V says:

          Not “steel jacket”, “steel core”. Reading skills will be crucial to your success going forward. I hate to sound like a nurse-maid, but there really is no substitute for a proper set of reading skills.

          • Ben Dover says:

            I thought BATF had ruled steel core ammo to be “armor piercing”.

          • Jonny V says:

            Here’s a link to the ammo I’m referring to. It’s old military surplus (Soviet bloc).

            http://www.surplusammo.com/products/7.62x54R-Light-Ball-Silver-Tip-Russian-%252d–440-Rounds-in-sealed-%22Spam-Can%22.html

            90 bucks for 440 rounds already packed for long term storage is real tough to be. You can buy the rifle at a lot of stores right now (Cabelas, Big 5, etc….) for about $100. This is a very good main battle rifle, and getting the rifle plus 440 rounds for about 200 bucks is too good a deal to pass up. Every prepper should have at least three of these.

          • MadMarkie says:

            Is he perhaps referring to the lacquer coated, steel cased, Russian manufactured 7.62 x 39 ammo? Wolf, Golden Tiger, etc.? It seems to feed properly and works OK for me. When it comes down to a difference in price of $20 for a box of 20 Federal brass cased ammo vs $5 for a box of 20 lacquer coated, steel cased ammo; if they both work the same, then it’s kind of a ‘no brainer’ which to buy as far as I’m concerned.

            You’re 100% correct on the reading skills Jonny V. If you can read about ‘it’ and comprehend what you’re reading ….. then you can teach yourself to do ‘it’.

      • crash and burn says:

        Amen!!! Cyber….the Mosin Nagant is an extremely effective weapon of choice….the russians can make vodka and guns.Also the have a a Mosin Nagant revolver that runs about $110.00

    9. Some guns I have and look at like little bars of gold. For instance a dealer just had a sale on assault rifle lower receivers (the part that is registered). I bought 5 to save over $150 in registration fees, shipping costs and just the discount. Would I ever be shooting 5 assault rifles – doubt it. One is all I need, but those extra 5 (yes now I have 6) are definitely worth a bunch to me if SHTF. Either barter material, loan to friends who can help defend me, or out right sell for needs. Upper receivers you can obtain without a wait, over the counter, and even by mail (for now). That order of 5 lowers for a total of $699.70 was the best money I spent this summer.

    10. stan says:

      Each person should have at least 12 guns of different kinds. That way we can defend ourselves against the democrats.

      Get guns guys. GGG

      • eric says:

        yes, have at least a lot of backup ammo and keep it cool out of moisture and it will shoot forever. I have shot ammo .22 and others from the 70′s that shoot great. Practice and have confidence when you shoot. that changes a lot right there alone. We need to get these damn democrats out of office before we start getting pinched with more restrictions like obamacare etc. if that passes I will not pay fees or fines and will gaurd my home. if the irs comes. there will be people killed and so will I. But they are taking our freedom away slowly and we must not allow this to happen. I have a kevlar vest and they will to, Im an expert shot and they will not be as fast to move or hide as myself. It will get ugly the years comming up but I tell you what we have to stand and fight for freedom and not let some people who are influcened bu curruption and greed tell us how its going to be. they are breaking the law and they will pay. I dont think they underestimate the power of us and they way we are. I really dont. then they will say we are nuts and crazy etc etc etc. you know.

    11. Gods Creation says:

      So many people seem to be hoping for the S to HTF so they can shoot people. For those fixated more on guns than things they really need to survive, go join (or rejoin) the corps army. Then you can go kill all the innocent, hungry people you want to.

      I have a small caliber pistol and a rifle for hunting, with plenty of ammo for each. I don’t want or need any more than that.

      If you are going into this thinking you will need to become an army all on your own and pissing away thousands of dollars that could be spent on more productive things you are already defeated.

      If you are going to survive, the main survival skill is out thinking your opponent, not outgunning them.

      How many of you can consistently hit a small target with a blow gun? Or a throwing star? Or any other weapon that will not alert people for miles around that you have something to protect?

      Many seem to believe that they are invincible as long as they have their beloved guns. Trust me, you can die just as easily with a gun in your hands as without. And you are far more likely to do just that.

      A smart person with a single shot rifle can take you down and you will never know it was coming. It is much easier to survive by using your brain and avoiding the dangerous situations when they present themselves. i would rather have one good escape plan that 100 guns.

      If a mob comes by that greatly out numbers you and has a lot of guns, are you going to be stupid enough to stand there and fight and die?

      You might want to make sure that your preps are well hidden and inaccessible to that mob. Leave a little they can find, and a lot they can’t. Get your family out of there, live, and come back when the threat is gone.

      I would bet that not 1 in 10 that are over armed can not be defeated by a single individual that spends a few days scouting around and seeing your daily habits. And they can do it without even having a gun themselves.

      Go ahead and buy all the guns your egos need to make you feel like a man. Somebody with a higher intelligence will likely sit out in the bushes waiting for you with a poison tipped blow gun dart that will kill or incapacitate you in seconds without making a sound.

      Of course, the invincible gun freaks will never think that is a possibility. You may have enough guns and bullets to kill a small army, but if you run up against someone with a brain you will likely never get your hands on them. But I am sure you can stay up with your guns 24/7 and see everything that happens night and day. That seems to be what most over armed under brained people think they will be able to do.

      Good luck with that.

      Is it any coincidence those bent on having as many guns as they can buy are military, or ex military? They are trained to be stupid, violent animals, and that training is the basis of their preps.

      Man has survived this long because of his ability to out think all other animals. The one with the most guns does not win. It is the one with patience, ingenuity, and the ability to think better than the next guy.

      A gun only helps if you get the first shot. Guns will not protect you and will only be needed when the situation will cost you your life if you use them.

      • Bloodyfellow says:

        (Assumptions are the mother of all fuck-ups!)

      • Bill S says:

        It sounds stupid to be anti-gun. I’ll be using them to protect my home, family, and property during a SHTF event. During such an event there’s a good chance it’ll save my life. It would be foolish and short-sighted to pretend that it won’t.

      • Jim says:

        The obverse of your thinking is also viable: there will be a lot of people who think they’re ‘smart’ suddenly discovering themselves in the BBQ pit as the main course for a crowd of those ‘stupid, violent animals’ who had more firepower than the smart alec.
        Man survived because he was smarter than the animals: not really. Man survived because of his ability to make sharper, more effective, weapons than the claws and teeth of the animals that wanted to eat him.
        As to a gun only helping when ‘you get the first shot’ is also an assumption based on ignorance based on the Brady bunch philosophy. Saying something as foolish as that is the same as telling a rape victim a whistle or shout will stop them being raped, or that a call to 9-1-1 will bring the po-po to your rescue in time to prevent the problem.
        It isn’t ego or macho military training and thinking that prompts people to buy self defense weapons: it’s smart, thinking, understanding that they’re possibly not as young or strong or as many as the group attacking them.
        What you have is what you want, do yourself and others a favor: don’t be condemning people for wanting more than you have- because, unlike smug you, they may feel the need for it.

      • Sheepdog says:

        I would love to correspond by mail with you SHTF. Interested to see how your tactics work. You assume top much, and stereotype too broadly. You have some good ideas, but lack a few essentials. For your own good, be ready to abandon some of your beliefs if need be. You may find you need our help. please pardon MY assumption, but you talk like a reluctant passivist who believes the bad is coming but lack some heart. My apologies if I misread. But thanks for the perspective. We can all learn from each other.

      • Oh Dear Gods Creation,

        “They are trained to be stupid, violent animals, and that training is the basis of their preps.”

        Its funny how you throw disdain over those trained by our government/military and profess how those with firearms will be so easily overcome. That little egotism you profess upon others is deep within you as well. Not sure what the dislike is over firearms. No one that knows how to use them or ever has wants SHTF the so they bring out the AR’s. But you can bet your butt they are better to have then have not.

        As I stated above a firearm is a great barter tool. Its value may exceed that of equivalent gold in no time. The mobs to which you speak will not be well trained and organized. Should their leader fall at 250 yards to a single shot it will take them days to fight out creating a new one. That little man with a blow dart and poison will have to get close enough not to be noticed by hours of scouring the tree lines with a high powered scope, and if spotted his last breath won’t be into that tube.

        Every single conflict in the world (even Kosovo) has come down to man and his use of the rifle – since it was invented. Every single one – not one conflict has been fought with out. You may want to ignore that reality, and you may be smarter then some. When you run into your well armed equal – well we know how that will end.

        • Ben says:

          Not to mention this little fact.

          How many individuals do you know that are “silent & deadly” with a blow gun. Bow and arrow? Yes? Crossbow? Yes.

          Blow gun? Ummmmm…yah…not so much.

          God’s Creation is the most arrogant POS on this website. I don’t have a problem with people disagreeing but this jackhole always contends he is the smartest one on the message board.

          One can only hope he gets to test his assumptions one day. I would pay to see it myself.

          Excellent reply Jim.

      • GC, what you say is mostly true. But, you need something for castle and personal protection. I’d recommend you add to your arsenal a shotgun and you’re set.

        You’re assumption, however, that it is better to outsmart than outgun is partly true. Why not outsmart *AND* outgun them? That would truly be the smart thing to do.

        I’ll be doing both. There are so many scenarios and dynamics that will change. The guns may never be needed at all or you may need way more than you planned. What is it we’re always saying? Plan for the worst, hope for the best. I’m there doing that.

        Not only that, I’m helping gear up the free state project so we can step in after the corporation throws a rod. Sooner is better, IMO. Tyranny gives me a headache.

      • Beefcake says:

        Too many insane assumptions here. Are we not sure that maybe GC is mushroom’s alter ego? Maybe if we see a reference to sodomizing an armed gang of looters with rolled up crisp $10 bills I will know for sure.

      • SmokyMtnLady says:

        “Is it any coincidence those bent on having as many guns as they can buy are military, or ex military? They are trained to be stupid, violent animals, and that training is the basis of their preps.”

        Would rather share my home with these “stupid, violent animals” then with someone like you!! At least if the SHTF I know I can count on them!!! Good luck to you GC…I think you’re gonna need it!!

      • overtheedge says:

        I would agree that the best weapon is the grey stuff between your ears. Read: avoid if possible.

        Your characterization about former GIs is misogynistic at best. I would tender the notion that you are either ignorant or young. I forgive you. I only did 15 years credited military service. I avoid conflict and always attempt peaceful resolution. I hold several MOS (military operational skills) and have only served in combat arms units. Yep, gonna run with that notion.

        Man survived because of our ability to out think all other animals (Oo, your words). DO you see marmosets making 340 Weatherby Magnums? How about them grizzly bears? Any mule deer packing AKs? Like I said, “Avoid if possible, otherwise do as I was taught in the Army; Intersecting fields of fire and a good old fashion FPF. Yah gotta love a target rich environment.”

        I think it was Martin Luther King that said something to the effect of, “If you haven’t found something worth dying for, you aren’t fit to live.”

        I have no death wish and really hope others get by just fine too. But I will defend and protect me, my friends/family, innocents and the Constitution.

        Uh-huh, I’m a stupid, violent animal (Hm, your words again). Are you a predator, prey or a peaceful co-exister on starship Earth? Your choice, choose wisely.

        I will stand by my notion.

      • MailOrderZombie says:

        Blow gun with poison-tipped dart? Oh geez… If that was the only thing we’d be facing post SHTF we probably wouldn’t need such extensive and diverse armament. But this ain’t the jumgles of Borneo- or wherever in the Hell people still use “poison tipped blow-gun darts”. The folks coming after your provisions will likely be armed, off their happy meds, on PCP and God knows what else. You sound awfully liberal to me.

        One other thing, this country wasn’t settled and founded by men packin’ poison blow-gun darts and such…Just sayin.

      • Gods Creation says:

        C’mon you guys can slam harder than that.

        My point is that if anyone comes to take your preps you are already outgunned because it will be the remains of the corp, not some small band of stragglers looking to steal what you have. It is not the small band of unfortunate souls you will have to defend yourself from, it is the dying corp army.

        You will always be outgunned and it will attack with unmanned drones FIRST if its records show you are, or may be, heavily armed. You will not even get to take one with you if it thinks you may be able to do that. Why do you think they require registration on firearms, and drivers licenses, car registrations, and SSN’s so it knows where to find you when it wants to?

        A man with 100 guns is no better off than a man with one or two, and in many cases will only make themselves a target for the corp. I prefer my two unregistered, unlocateable guns to 100 guns the corp has a record of.

        It seems that many here are getting prepared to defend themselves from a few armed stragglers that were able to escape the city before the corp locked it down. You don’t need to fear the people, only the corp. Instead, the people you are preparing to defend against will likely be unarmed, thirsty, hungry, tired, and afraid. They will likely be there to beg for food, not steal it, if any such group ever shows up.

        It would be far better to purchase additional food and water that can be shared if that ever became necessary.

        Use your brain and you will likely never need a gun other than for hunting.

        Your brain will help you formulate an escape plan to employ on the first sight of danger. It will help you put your preps in different places so you don’t have to die, or kill, defending them. You can just go to another stash and wait for the threat to leave. It will help you build an impenetrable room in case you get caught by surprise.

        If you have a gun and a fishing pole, you can eat no matter where you are, or are forced to go when faced with superior force.

        Don’t prep to kill the unfortunate, and have the sense to realize you will not defeat the tanks that roll into your yard after the drones have dropped the bombs on your house because the corp knows you have a lot of guns, and EXACTLY where you are. Especially if you post that you are over armed on a board like this, have a drivers license, registration, or other corp documents.

        It was Henry Kissinger who said the military was dumb animals, not me. I just borrowed the line to illustrate the mentality of those who were subject to such programming.

        You can not fight the corp army and that will be the only thing capable of seeking you out. If a man and his family is walking down your driveway, are you going to shoot them just for doing that?

        Prep now by becoming invisible to the corp. That will be the only real threat you face. Get an out of state drivers license and car registration. Register all property to a LLC or trust. Don’t brag about your guns on internet forums because your IP number is easy to find a trace. Especially if you are preoccupied with arming yourself and remain in plain sight to the corp.

        There are many other weapons besides gun the corp does not track, and can be used to defend yourself against the threats that can actually be defended against. Throwing stars is a lot of fun and useful if you can ping somebody in the head with one from 20 feet. And I forgot to mention my favorite, the crossbow.

        So go ahead and get all the guns you need to make you feel safe. Peace of mind is valuable in its own way. It is false peace of mind that will leave you vulnerable to the only threat you are likely to face. The corp Army.

        Me, I prefer to remain invisible to the corp and armed enough to eat. I can vanish from my home in 5 minutes if the need be, and there is no way for the corp to track my movements. Hell, if they found my truck abandoned they would not even be able to find the “owner” if they went looking.

        After you have a couple of unregistered guns and a good supply of bullets, more will serve no purpose unless you want to trade them at a loss to someone who may come back later and shoot you with it.

        For those who are trying to get as many as possible, your efforts are futile. They will lead the corp to your door FIRST, and with a force that can not be defeated by a mere man no matter how well trained he may be.

        • Seth says:

          Out of state DL? Out of state registration? The first time you get pulled over for a traffic violation, your ass will be tossed in jail, then your white ass will be tossed for salad. Fucking assholes like you are the reason that I had to wait for hours to get my DL renewed and had to provide proof of address, SSN, and birth certificate. Just keep your fat ass in your trailer and keep your BS to yourself fucking moron. Fuck you and fuck your fucking fantasy god.

        • Odd Questioner says:

          I think the solution lies in between here.

          You do bring up a couple of good points, but then you had to go and ruin it with tinfoil. Let me concentrate on the positives, though:

          * Post-TEOTWAWKI, yes there will very likely be bands of trained soldiers with very effective weapons. They’ll also likely have some effective tactics – which means that by the time you know they’re after what you have, they’ll pretty much have it. This leads to a two-part question: How likely are these to exist, and how likely are they to show up at your door? If you live near military bases or training ranges, or near any governmental camps (assuming any exist), then the odds are pretty good. A scene in George Romero’s ‘Diary of The Dead’ illustrates this perfectly – the protagonists have an RV freshly filled with supplies, but soon get them stolen outright by a trio of national guardsmen with military weaponry. Something to consider if you live near an area where there are lot of soon-to-be-displaced military folks. And look… no governmental conspiracy required. All that said, odds are good that the vast majority of folks you may stumble across will probably be refugees. No harm in a handout if the situation is otherwise perfectly calm and safe. Maybe a meal and a packet of seeds or two… maybe make sure they have a small pocketknife (the slender little chinese swiss-army knives are only a buck or two each, and could make the diff between life or death – they’re also way too small to be a terribly useful weapon).

          * The first rule of prepping offline is exactly like the first rule of Fight Club: You do not talk about Fight Cl- err, prepping. This is for good and obvious reasons. First among them? Even if the local populace can’t get at your stuff, if they face a band of folks who can, they’ll happily point to your place in the hopes that they’ll be left alone.

          * Emphasis on any one aspect of survival to the reduction of others is fatal. I can’t eat guns, and I can’t effectively defend my home by throwing a #10 can of beans at the interloper… and I can’t use either to suture a wound, or to stay warm and dry.

          * No matter how badassed you think you and your buddies may be, odds are perfect that there are bigger and more badassed out there than you are. Therefore, plan for a possible retreat if you have to, and more importantly, know for certain when that has to happen.

          However… some things you yourself should keep in mind:

          * Most of the trouble you’ll come across will probably come from folks who have neither military training or much in the way of weaponry. Even a good-sized mob will disperse awful quick once they see their buddies start falling down with critical or fatal wounds. If you get lucky and hit the leader first, I’m almost certain that the rest will bolt approximately two nanoseconds after they realize it.

          * In order for your blow-gun to work, you’re going to have to get close enough to actually *use* it. This in turn depends on where you are. In thick woods (and I mean damned thick) you may have a chance. In open country, good frickin’ luck. There’s a reason a lot of us out here in the Western US use big rifles, and it ain’t about penis size. The reason is pretty simple: getting closer than 500 yards to your prey would take a miracle, supersonic travel, incredible luck, or a world-class sniper carrying that blowgun of yours while wearing a ghillie suit.

          * There are approximately 180 million firearms in the US. What are the odds of a governmental effort to catalog and categorize each and every one, especially once you consider private sales? They can’t even do that now when tracking real criminals, FFS…

          Overall, you’re moving in the right direction, but you went way past the point, and off into Area 51.

          • Gods Creation says:

            I believe the main problem will be from the corp, and those you run across trying to escape it will not be a danger. They will be needed to assemble the force needed to stop the corp. If you shoot them, that is one less soldier the People will have and one fewer the corp has to kill.

            The blow gun was just used as an example of a different weapon of the silent variety, as a way to illustrate there are MANY things that can be used as weapons that many have not considered. Maybe a little stretch to use it in the context of an offensive weapon.

            While it is true the corp is incompetent, that only makes it more dangerous.

            Sometimes in order to make people think you have to go to area 51 and let them find their way out. Somewhere on the way back, maybe they will have thought they would not have otherwise had.

            The legitimate government has been stolen and formed itself into the corp. There is no law, and no protection in the law, that the corp recognizes.

            So long as it exists, it is the only enemy. It will be required that people stand together against IT, not each other, if the law is to be restored.

            This situation is not like you and your friend being chased by a bear, where you don’t have to outrun the bear, just your friend. In this case, the bear must be stopped. To do that, the bear must first be identified as something other than the friend, and the friend is to be recognized for who he is.

            Too many here still believe they need to protect themselves from those who they should be working with.

            That’s not to say some bad people might not be out and about, and that you shouldn’t have the means to protect yourself. You should do that no matter what the situation, even if everything around you seems normal and the prospects are good.

            And actually, I appreciate the fact that there are those who have a lot of guns that can help the People become better armed to stand against the corp. But will those people actually give away one of their prized weapons for use by another against the corp? I doubt it. It seems that most will kill or die protecting their weapons rather than putting them to the best use if the opportunity arises.

            My problem is not with getting armed. It is getting armed for the wrong reasons, and preparing to face the wrong enemy. That is the goal of the corp, and it is apparently succeeding quite well at it.

      • Highlander says:

        Well, we won’t be worrying about you, you’ll have already been off’d. As for being prepared almost evryone here is prepared with food and other supplies but we need a good discusion on how to kill shit like you so that our kith and kin will have what they need. Please craw back into what ever marxist cesspool you came from. And anyone who thinks the winner gets the first shot has never been there.

        Cheers!

        • Sheepdog says:

          Normally, when someone makes a point, he/she is oft misunderstood. So a rebuttal and second clarifying statement. In the case of Gods Little Lamb, it was the second tour into the grey soup of ambiguous intellectual masturbation. If you recognize the need that you may need to drive nails from time tho time, buy a few varied sized hammers and some assorted nails by the pound. Might need to defend yourself? I am sorry but your European baseball bat ain’t my first choice.

          • caryn says:

            oh that was a good one sheepdog..but i doubt that g.c. will ever “get it”. the boys brain is so constipated with thinking things through and is more worried about coming off as an intellectual, that first time he has a chance to defend himself it will be with the nasty smell coming from his britches.

          • Sheepdog says:

            Actually I short of admire the little fella. Has some guts. Like being a gold fish with a bleeding wound and thinking it would be satisfying to taunt a school of meat eating fish. On second thought, that would make no sense. And it would be counter productive to the fish’s survival. Sorry, I tried GC… You are on your own…in more ways than one. Swim baby swim!

      • Ben Dover says:

        One thing to keep in mind is that in anything short of a Mad Max scenerio, the gubmint at all levels likes to come down hard on anyone who defends themselves with a firearm. It sucks, but that is the way it is. As far as they are concerned…constitution, smonstitution.

        Guns have their uses, but are not an end all and be all. Guns and ammo are useful, but if you are in a situation where you need to use many, many rounds of ammunition in a fairly short period of time, you will end up losing a fight at some point (nobody stays undefeated forever). I prefer to avoid gunfights altogether if at all possible.

        That said, having a gun MAY not help, but it rarely hurts!

      • WickedOne says:

        Just sell your gun. It sounds like you are afraid of it. Blow guns? Throwing stars? Ha! Dumb-ass!

    12. VRF says:

      I got rid of all my guns
      I have more primative means of defense, and to aquire food.

    13. starchild says:

      Great Article, Thank you.

    14. Bill S says:

      We got a couple of Mossberg Bantam 500 20 gauge shotguns. I’m not a big believer in hand guns because the more powerful they are the more kick they have. It’s hard to stop someone with one shot and if the gun has a lot of kick it’s hard to hit one with multiple shots. That’s why I like a pump action shotgun. I believe that I can stop someone breaking into my house with one shot. I can finish them off with a second one.

      • Mal Reynolds says:

        Bill S:
        You’re assuming they aren’t “IN” your house. Shotguns can easily over penetrate. Suggest you look at a pistol with hollow point ammo, especially if you have loved ones with you.

        Regards,
        Mal

    15. Chris45 says:

      Well written article. My MBRs are my M1, SMLE #4, and my Mosin Nagant. All good battle proven rifles and very reliable. Happy shooting .

    16. overtheedge says:

      Good article.

      The mosin-nagant was the basis for the com-bloc sniper rifle until it was replaced in front-line units by the SVD Dragonov. Both fire the same round: 7.62x54R. Ballistics in the 30-06 category and just as reliable as Garands or Kalishnakovs. Trained with both in the Army and a Russian friend of mine confirms my opinion. He was a sniper in the Soviet Army.

      The SKS is hard to beat. Like the AKs it seems like a loose rifle, but plenty accurate and reliable. Mini-14 and Mini-30 are both Garand designs and reliable as they come. Try out any after market mags before you need them.

      Shotgun would be my first choice and the Mossberg 500 is hard to beat for the price. Remington 870 is better, but not that much.

      The Ruger 10/22 with factory mags is reliable and accurate. Just keep in mind the rear sight is pot-metal and breaks easily (broke a couple over the years). After-market mags need testing in your weapon.

      I prefer the Browning Hi-Power for a pistol. Old design and far more accurate than a stock 1911A1 or Combat Commander and just as reliable. Now the 1911 design can be upgraded to serious accurate, but reliability become questionable for combat purposes. Silly toggle link anyway. Half the after-market mags fail to qualify as reliable for both. Stay away from cheapies or test them hard. Charter Arms makes some inexpensive wheel guns. Shoulda never sold my Undercover, but when your broke … .

      Inside of 20 feet and all things being equal, a man with a knife wins. I like a kukri. Check out the Cold-Steel Kukri. Never underestimate the psychological advantage of a determined opponent with a $30 samuri sword.

      Get a good pellet gun. Cheap to buy, shoot and will dispatch small game. Better still is the cheap training on sight alignment, sight picture, breathing and trigger control. Otherwise you just have a noisy, expensive club. Training, training, training.

      Don’t get me started on black guns. I whined when they replaced my M-14 with that miserable M-16. Look at the statistics of shots to kill ratios out of Nam. Then look at Korea’s. 460 meter effective range my ass! 350 if no wind and SS-109 ammo is just a duct taping the screw-up in adopting the M-16 and it’s variants. No I don’t care much for Stoner designs. Okay, a pun is in order. I wouldn’t trust a stoner to accomplish anything.

      Just the opinion of an old curmudgeon.

      • elcid-77 says:

        Problems with 10/22 sights? Check out a product by “Tech-Sights”. Its like an AR style peep sight that mounts on the receiver (better sight picture AND increased radius). The company makes them for a variety of models; I use the 10/22 and SKS sights and both do wonders for me.

    17. Mcfrolie says:

      Oh Jeez, I knew this would bring out every armchair commando within WiFi distance.

      • Mal Reynolds says:

        That’s what makes this article SOOOO much fun. Grab a cup of Joe and read the comments. I’ve laughed, I’ve cried, I’ve hurled. I even took a note or two.

    18. Durango Kidd says:

      Edge: I appreciate your affection for the M-14. I was blowing consecutive pinwheels in boot camp at 500 yards with an open sight. However, I am very glad I didn’t have to tote that around in Nam.

      I view my AR-15 .223 as a defensive weapon with plenty of firepower, accurate with good range, little recoil, and very light; meaning if necessary I can pack additional ammo.

      In a SHTF firefight a couple hundred yards will be the norm, however my “sport” rifle is accurate to 800 yards.

      Although the basic design hasn’t changed much since Nam, the quality of the weapon is now as good as it gets. Check with the experts at Guns & Ammo, they did a review of AR’s a couple months back.

    19. hunter says:

      for planing for SHTF you want to have weapons that use a common round and stock up on ammo for it. The ammo after SHTF will be worth alot the ammo for some of the not so common weapons will be worth alot but only to a few people but your more common rounds like 5.56/.233, 30-06, 30-30 .308 12ga shot gun, and .22 rounds will be worth alot to alot of people

    20. Possum says:

      If you find yourself in a fair fight, you haven’t planned well enough! If they’re within range, so are you. Any 11 Bravo or Marine equivalent out there? Tell the readers if being able to throw a lot of lead at the other guys or firing a single bullet at a time is what happens in close range fire fights. No snipers please.

      • Bloodyfellow says:

        Possum: Superior fire power is a Marines best friend!!!

        In a fire fight he who has superior fire power wins!!! THE END.

      • overtheedge says:

        You betcha Possum. You are either the ambusher or the ambushed. You want a fair fight, enter the Golden Gloves Program. Still gotta love that indirect fire just to shake some trees and rake some leaves. 60′s, 81′s, 4 deuces, okay call the cannon cockers if you must. There are no second place winners.

      • Odd Questioner says:

        If you have an endless supply of lead to throw, then yeah, go nuts. If you do not, then you’ll have enough for approximately one or two firefights.

        Even grunts are smart enough to know that semi-auto is the smartest position on the selector switch, FFS.

    21. emptyhandkiller says:

      I agree with Durango, as usual. I also have a few AR’s, a good shotgun, a 10/22, and some high quality pistols and revolvers. I also see only defense to use them, but I wouldn’t hesitate to send drugged up hippies to Valhalla if they tried to loot my hard earned supplies.
      Mac, thanks again for an interesting, good read. I am a loyal reader and fan.

    22. Hippie says:

      Stick with common NATO rounds. What the military and police use. You may find yourself in a position where carrying around 1000 plus rounds of ammo just isn’t possible. You can also find yourself in a position where you just capped off 300-600 rounds and now you are empty … and there are NATO rounds on those bodies that you can not use. Also, 223 makes a nasty wound, but, they have a tendency to fragment going through walls. Being kid pro with a 22 just means he is a kid pro with a 22. I can shoot 22 mags @ 200 yard soft balls all day. So drop the 22 and become a pro with something in NATO.

      Of course, a sub sonic 22 long has its place in the right circumstances. If you are going to start out, go .308. You can work down from there.

      • Durango Kidd says:

        Hippie: I don’t aim at walls. Groins are best and the least protected.

        • Jonny V says:

          Your sickness knows no limits, does it?

          • Durango Kidd says:

            Jonny V; Well if you shoot them in the head,chances are they’re dead. Defending my turf or not, I would rather face assault with a deadly weapon than homicide charges.

            Just saying …. if I can’t dump the body into an old mine shaft. :-)

          • Jonny V says:

            I’m hoping to use up the mineshaft option on my daughter’s boyfriend…….:) Along with a few 20 lb propane bottles and some loose gasoline and road flares. You don’t think that combination might be dangerous do you……:)

        • Hippie says:

          Obviously Durango, you have NEVER been in a firefight in an urban environment. Well … good luck. I am sure they’ll all be stacked in a row for ya like rubber ducks.

          I can see already that you yourself will be a rubber duck.

          • durango kidd says:

            Hippie: No I have never been in an urban firefight and it is not likely I ever will be. In fact it is extremely unlikely that flash mobs or the golden hoards will ever even reach me.

            I just prefer to aim at what I intend to hit. If you want to shoot through walls with the hope of killing your adversary that’s your choice.

            I do know that if I were in an urban firefight I would want a weapon with good stopping power, high capacity, dependable, and can be quickly reloaded with another high capacity mag.

            The AR is a perfect weapon for a family, particularly if they can only afford one weapon.

    23. MadMarkie says:

      I think that the real point that Mr. Clark was trying to get across is that it would probably be wise for each family unit looking towards the future, and not really liking or trusting much to the government’s ability to make things ‘right’, to consider the ownership of at least one firearm. He also informs us that we are also going to have to look after such items as accessories, ammo, repair parts and training when we purchase a firearm.

      Most of us have somewhat limited resources and have to save up a bit prior to purchasing a firearm. If I could only have 1 gun, it would be a 12 ga shotgun. The Mossberg Model 500 pump action shotgun is reasonably priced, dependable and comes with interchangeable stock and pistol grip and a short self-defense barrel as well as a longer hunting barrel for right around $300.00. Boxes of 5 slug/buckshot shells are right at $5 a box, $100 gets you 100 rounds. Put a sling and a green laser on it and get it sighted in @ 25 yards. The bad people will very likely pass you on by rather than to come up against bad-ass 12 ga gun in the hands of a husband/father determined to protect his family.

      The bad folks only want the ‘soft’ targets, those who won’t fight back. If it even remotely looks like jumping on you could cost some of them some serious hurt ….. they’ll go talk to somebody who looks just a little bit easier. Like the guy without a gun?

      Before you spend a lot of those hard earned dollars on an AR platform weapon, usually North of a $1,000.00; please go to http://www.cheaperthandirt.com and check out the number of parts that come in their various “repair kits” for the AR. If there are that many springs and other assorted ‘doo-hickeys’ on that weapon that could possibly break at a time when I probably really need it ……. then I’m not really sure if I want to own the weapon.

      Lots to consider. I personally would rather have a weapon and not ever need it than to really need a gun and not have it.

      • Durango Kidd says:

        MM: Based upon your post, I believe that you have never used or owned an AR. If you had you would have cleaned it, field stripped it and reassembled it and you would know how it works and how many “parts” there are in the basic weapon.

        If a family can only afford one weapon, that weapon should be an AR rather than a 12 gauge even if that AR costs a lot more money. Here’s why:

        Your 10-12 year old kid is not going to be able to withstand the recoil from multiple shots on a 12 gauge if he or she has to use the weapon. A kid can use an AR effectively if properly trained with it and there is little recoil.

        Reloading an AR is simple; release the magazine let it drop and insert another. Bingo! Another 20 or 30 rounds. Loading a 12 gauge is more cumbersome and you are only going to get another 8 rounds into the weapon ….. one at a time. If you have a new Keltec assault shotgun all you get is 15.

        The most important survival weapon is your brain. After that a AR 15/ M4/ M6 is going to give you the best response and adequate defensive firepower to withstand an attack on your home by a crowd of “mutant zombies” or a “flash mob”.

        As for price, check with the pawn shops. They are loaded with AR’s and they probably own it for a third of the value. Cut a deal.

        • Last Minute says:

          I definitely agree. The Stoner AR-15 platform I find very easy to use. Contrary to what some think, I think the AR platform is quite easy to field strip with little training and practice.

          Another factor and advantage of having an AR is that the U.S. military and law enforcement all use AR platform. So if you need parts, accessories, magazines and ammo, it’ll be much more common and easy to come by.

          There are options for 12 gauge that will be easier to handle such as lower recoil slugs from Fiocchi. They won’t pack the punch as most other slugs but it’ll definitely stop most people.

        • SmokyMtnLady says:

          I shot an AR a couple months back…and feel in love!!! Told the hubs I won’t be happy until I have one, LOL!!

        • overtheedge says:

          Gotta disagree DK. Perhaps my daughter was the exception, but at 12 she was slamming heavy 500gr reloads out of my Ruger #3 45-70 until I ran out of ammo. The 12ga Savage Fox B and her mothers Stevens 311 20ga were pretty tame for her. Of course she weighed in at about 75# at the time.

          I might ask, why is the 12 yo the only one packing? You stated only one weapon. Why not 2 or 3 SKSs and a shotgun. And have enough left over to buy ammo for weapons familiarization for everyone in the family? Is my logic flawed?

          Brain power can beat firepower, but it sure don’t hurt to use any and all tools available to solve problems.

          I would still choose a shotgun as the first firearm. At close range, there is little difference in combat effectiveness between a 12ga and a 20 ga. With all the assortment of ammunition available, the shotgun is good for defense and hunting everything from small game to bear.

          • Jonny V says:

            Man, that #3 Ruger is tough on recoil. My Marlin GBL is easier to shoot. Looking for a Ruger myself though. Damn good looking, and can handle 45/70 reloads that make it more like a .458 (light). 45/70 is one of the all time great calibers. And the size of that bore is sure to bring on a fear response from any intruders……

          • durango kidd says:

            EDGE: I believe everyone in a family should be packing and have their individual weapon/BOB. But if a family can only afford ONE weapon I believe it should be an AR for the versatility, high capacity, easy reloading, light recoil, and light weight.

            A 12 year old could shoot an AR ALL day long, if necessary. I believe a 12 gauge would get burdensome to the average kid. I have an old Ithica lever action and I know I don’t want to shoot it repeatedly. Of course I may be a sissy. Your daughter may be the exception.

    24. Bloodyfellow says:

      Long time ANTI-Gun Advocate NC State Senator Soles, shot one of two intruders at his home.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtMG2DiRwAs

    25. X.O.Dust says:

      If you like this article then you should read ‘Boston’s Gun Bible’ by Boston T. Party. Best book on guns around.

    26. Durango Kidd says:

      Hey guys: I saw this weapon at a gun show today and peeled the link from SHTF Weapons:

      http://www.tacticalinc.com/ruger-1022-gatling-machined-aluminum-p-571.html

      A little candy for all you gun nuts. Jonny V will start drooling I’m sure.

    27. Dave says:

      It’s true, you need only 3 weapons.
      A 12ga autoloading shotgun for the home
      A handgun
      An assault rifle, either .223 or .308 with lots of magazines and ammo.

      • Bloodyfellow says:

        Dave:

        If your weapon malfunctions,… one needs to be able to field strip in and fix it ASAP! I can repair every weapon that I own…firing pins, springs, extractors…etc, Don’t cheap out buy the extra parts now!

        I own several bows and can re-string them all and have all the arrows and extra parts needed to do most any repair.

      • Is the HG a 22? Which of your 3 will you use to obtain a squirrel, rattle snake or small animal for food…..I’d ad a 10/22 to your list and then call it as complete as you want. For me:

        10/22, 22 1911 Model and 22ppks
        9mm hi cap p89
        1911 a1 45
        S&W m27, Rossi 92 in 357, and hand held reloading kit for 357
        AR-15s, including one in 22LR for training
        AR-10, nice scope n bi pod
        Model 870 with 00/04 rounds available
        Pellet pump
        Archery set up with at least 36 quality hunting arrows

        • MadMarkie says:

          @ Jim-

          I also like the Ruger 10/22 ….. all except for the cheap little flip-up rear sight. I would also replace the standard top rail that the 10/22 comes with and replace it with a Weaver Picatinny top rail from NcSTAR for right around $15. Many scopes, ‘red-dots’ that I tried to mount didn’t seem to want to fit on the standard rail securely.

          If you can afford to; I would also replace the wooden stock with on of the aftermarket composite stocks with the sling swivel studs already attached. Otherwise you can get the swivel studs for around $10 and install them on the standard wooden stock yourself. Bottom line being you’re going to want to put a sling on any rifle or shotgun that you own. See how much ‘fun’ it is carrying either for any length of time without one.

          The 10/22 that has been fine tuned is a lot of bang for your buck and very reliable.

    28. SmokinOkie says:

      I’m not much of a gun expert, but I’ll say this: If I’m ever attacked by the broad side of a barn, that sucker is DEAD!

      • caryn says:

        smokinokie..same here.. except when exterminating and culling the squirel population..feeding those critters now cause when shtf time i want them comfy and trusting. same with the deer. they all usually come right on up to the house and i can stand there all night having that conversation with them.

    29. greaseman says:

      Haven’t seen much discussion about a lever action 30-30. I bought a used one, and love it. Ammo is readily available, and with the 4x scope that came with it, even an average marksman like myself can hit nice groups in the 50-75 yard range that is easily done with that caliber. Where I live, I would rarely be making a shot longer than 100 yards. Is this a decent defensive weapon? I also have several other carbines, but I love that 30-30. Opinions??

      • REB says:

        I like mine….killed alot of deer with it and so did Mom(it was her rifle,and she never missed)Ive killed deer with it alot farther than 100 yards but I no longer tell people how far because most refuse to believe it and I refuse to debate it.The 30-30 as I recall was the first smokeless round(?)and in the hands of a competent shooter it has a decent rate of fire and good accuracy,you could certainly get a worse rifle!
        I have several good basic rifles and other guns but I do like that 30-30…been shooting it for over 40 years so I know what its gonna do when I pull the trigger.Thanks!

        • Just me says:

          I had a 30-30 yrs ago, was shooting the 22 for a couple hrs with the scope close to my eye, I picked up the marlin 30-30 held it like i did the 22, drove the scope into my eye, had a beautiful shinner for a week, took the 3-30 up town and traded it in.

      • Plain Old American says:

        I have the Marlin 336C. Never saw a reason to put a scope on it as I have other rifles for longr range hunting (.270, .330WinMag, etc.). I use Williams peep sights on both the 30-30 and the Marlin lever action 45-70. With practice you can keep all (or most) hits in the 7 ring or better at 100 yards.

        I do enjoy shooting that little 30-30. I have never reloaded for it tho. Never wanted to deal with the crimp and factory ammo is inexpensive compared to the .270 and .300

      • Ben Dover says:

        Love the Marlin 336.

    30. Anonymous says:

      MUNNY
      Okie’s my partner. He don’t go I don’t go.
      Black Sheep
      What’s it come to three ways?

      We see the three of them ride off together.

      EXT DAY
      We watch the trio ride across the plains. Munny is staring into the sky

      MUNNY
      Shit

      Black Sheep
      (to MUNNY)
      What the hell are you pissing on about?
      (pause)
      well, what are you looking at?

      Okie
      Clouds, Black Sheep. He’s looking at them clouds over
      yonder on account of we got a storm riding up our ass.

      Black Sheep
      Oh, them. Hell, I seen them.

      Okie
      You were smart to change your mind, Black Sheep.

      Black Sheep
      Yeah?

      Okie
      Yeah. I’m a real good shot with this rifle. Here.
      See that hawk up there (points to sky) I could hit that
      hawk with one shot.

      Black Sheep
      Hell, I could hit it too, Okie, if I didn’t mind wasting a shot

      Okie
      There ain’t no hawk, Black Sheep You can’t see for shit, can you.

      Black Sheep
      (Grabs Okie’s canteen and throws it to the ground)
      See your canteen?
      (shoots the canteen twice)

      Okie
      All right, how far can you see.

      Black Sheep
      Far enough

      Okie
      We ain’t going to Wyoming to shoot canteens,
      damnit, how far? A hundred yards?

      Black Sheep
      More.

      Okie
      Can you see that scrub oak yonder?

      Black Sheep
      Fuck You, Okie!

      Okie
      He’s blind, Will

      Black Sheep
      I ain’t blind, you asshole.
      (points pistol at Okie)

      MUNNY
      Now hold on. Hold it. How far can you see, Kid?
      Fifty yards?

      Black Sheep
      You bet your ass I can see fifty yards, Will. I can see
      well enough to shoot this son of a bitch right here in front of me.

      MUNNY
      Now hold on. You hear that, Okie? The kid can see fifty yards. Fine.

      Okie
      Jesus.

      MUNNY
      Fifty yards will do just fine now let’s move out.

    31. BraneFrees says:

      Assault rifle.

      Assault rifle. Assault rifle. Assault rifle.

      Gah! I hate that freaking term. Makes me want to blow chunks every time I see it on one of these forums. I’d be a wealthy man if I had ten cents for every time it gets used.

      Personally, I don’t have any assault rifles.

      However, I do have gobs of assault pistols, assault revolvers, assault pocket knives, assault shotguns, assault machetes, assault can openers, assault water filters, assault fire starters, assault compasses, assault and pepper shakers, etc., ad nauseum.

      And lastly and perhaps most importantly – my trusty assault keyboard.

      • Dave says:

        There are assault rifles and there are battle rifles(usually in .308 like the HK-G3).
        Your anger and desire to blow chunks should be directed at those that want to take them from you, not those that describe them inappropriately.

        • BraneFrees says:

          Dave,

          My aversion to the term “assault rifle” stems from the clever way it was used in the ’90s by the Clinton administration and their media toadies to accomplish another step in the demonizing of perfectly legitimate firearms. I can’t bring myself to cooperate with their continuing propaganda campaign.

          Everybody has a pet peeve or two.

      • Durango Kidd says:

        BraneFrees: Its all in your perspective. Personally, I perceive the term “assault rifle” to mean the semi automatic weapon that I will use to defend me and mine from “assault” on my turf.

        My assault rifle then, AR for short, is a defensive weapon and infers a particular design type for me, not the intent by the owner.

        • BraneFrees says:

          Durango Kidd,

          Our perspectives are pretty much the same.

          My issue is the gross overuse of the term “assault rifle” by the media in the their never ending pursuit to assist those who would love to see the end of firearms in the possession of free people.

          It always feels to me like calling them “assault rifles” is playing their game with them laying down the rules. And the game is intended to turn the general, non-gun owning people actively against firearms owners.

          Per Wikipedia: “An assault rifle is a selective fire (selectable between semi-auto and fully automatic) rifle (capable of being fired from the shoulder) that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine. Assault rifles are the standard infantry weapons in most modern armies. Assault rifles are categorized in between light machine guns, which are intended more for sustained automatic fire in a light support role, and submachine guns, which fire a pistol cartridge rather than a rifle cartridge.”

          I don’t own any of those.

      • Plain Old American says:

        Good.

        I was holding my breath worried you were going to admit to owning the most lethal weapon of mass depression….the assault wife.

      • VRF says:

        every weapon is “an assault weapon” when used to kill with..
        pretty much the deffinition of using a tool to kill is an act of assault..therefore if i kill an intuder with a spoon..it than becomes an assault weapon.

        since i have gotten rid of all my guns and traded them in for gold..when i clock someone in the head with a bar of gold it than becomes an assault weapon.

        along with my fists of steel..they are registered with the law..because i cant stick them in my pocket with out getting flack for having 2 concealed weapons, so i got the permit

    32. Rachel says:

      a weapon is only as good as the person who uses it. whether it be bow, knife or gun. Prevetion is the best defence to begin with. If you can avoid being in a situation where you may have to use force to defend yourself it’s better over all.

      isn’t prevention what prepping is all about?

      • Dave says:

        Prevention is terrrific! But it’s inevitable that violence will find you before you can prevent it.
        When that happens, you had better have more than a charming smile.

      • kid says:

        Rachel i believe your right. we need to start thinking of ways to prevent the catastrophe that would put us in that situation and to stop worrying what gun or weapon we would use to end it.

      • Durango Kidd says:

        Rachel: Yes, of course you are right. :-) But people can’t live at home all day with the shades drawn and shut out the world … because the world will come to them, one way or another.

        WE live in the Last Days. These flash mobs are a sign of the times for those who can read them.

        Forwarned is well armed. Lock and Load.

    33. Bloodyfellow says:

      DK:

      “WE live in the Last Days.” Last days of what???? You mean (SHTF) right!

      Cause I don’t believe all the end of the world BS.

      • Durango Kidd says:

        BF: The Last Days (however long they last)specifically refers to the period of time prior to the return of Jesus Christ.

        According to the Bible and the believers of His gospel, this period of time is a period of CHAOS with widespread Earth Changes, wars, and economic and political upheavel, etc.

        Its pretty clear WE are in those Days according to the signs identified by JC to manifest before His return. flash mobs just a footnote to the real ones.

        The world doesn’t end, but it does change, is changing. It may only be TEOTWAWKI, or SHTF; but there are many levels of SHTF. TEOTWAWKI is a threat to life itself.

        try http://shtfteotwawki.blogspot.com for a discussion of the differences.

        So don’t expect a “Golden Age” promised by the New Agers. Mad Max is more like it.

      • SmokinOkie says:

        Bloodyfellow- I know your reply was to DK, but I just wanted to say, we ARE in the last days. Last days of American Empire?- maybe. Last days of a functioning economy?- probably so (for a while at least). Last days before shtf?- certainly, although the timing, as well as the exact definition of shtf, is anybody’s guess. And I know you’re already aware of all that.
        As for the Last Days according to the bible- who knows? Among the Christians, there’s almost as many opinions on the ‘end times’ as there are people. So far, all the predictions of Armegeddon and Christ’s return have been premature. Of course that doesn’t mean it won’t happen- just that it hasn’t happened yet.
        Many people discard the bible altogether, and that’s their prerogative. If they’re right and there’s no God or judgement, then they haven’t lost anything. If they’re wrong, by the time they realize that, it’s still just between them and God. Others have a faith of one kind or another but don’t get too concerned about the end times stuff…. Ooops, I promised myself I wouldn’t start in with the religion angle. Just kinda slipped out.
        Another thing about Last Days though- every one of us is, in a sense, in our last days. Meaning that our time on earth is limited, and we really should be pursuing truth and understanding. And we should be treating one another with compassion, love, and all those other good things. (which we usually don’t) We should also remember to laugh at ourselves, and to enjoy life, because we won’t be here forever. Come to think of it, you already knew all that, too. Guess I just wrote it to see if I could actully post something besides silly drivel. Hey! It worked!

        • Bloodyfellow says:

          SmokinOkie:

          I agree with you on the fact that we may be seeing the last days of the (American Empire)as we know it. I see it like this, if the big government blood-suckers! go with it we’er better off in the long run.

          But I will say this…I believe that our government will never let go of its (Super Power)status without a lot of blood & loss of life on a grand scale…to the likes of witch we do not know of yet! What do I know I could be wrong. It could all fade away like a light in the fog but, I doubt it.

          “I love the land of witch I live. I just don’t like the other 70% of the population that I have to share it with!”

          Bloodyfellow-

      • MadMarkie says:

        It’s gonna be the end of the world for a whole lot of those still living in ‘la-la-land’ who haven’t been awake enough to what’s going on around them to bother to prepare. They’re gonna die!

    34. redgypsy says:

      Me think .44 mag still great cartidge.
      Have new england firearms breach load with open sites.
      Have killed more deer than I can count 6+ bears.
      Slaughtered cows with it never required a secind shot:)

      Red

      • Jonny V says:

        If you could only have one handgun, it should probably a 4″ .44 magnum. There may be others that are more powerful, or hold more shots, but no other handgun can do so much, so well, as the good ole .44. Elmer Keith was right.

    35. Last Minute says:

      Being that I live in New York, obtaining a pistol permit is extremely difficult. I find a good alternative is a Beretta CX4 Storm carbine, which costs around $900. They come in either 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP. The CX4 is also extremely easy to field strip, low maintenance, good balance, easy to shoot and uses same pistol magazine as Beretta 92 series. Basically the CX4 you’ll get much more range, accuracy and firepower than a pistol of those three calibers mentioned above.

      My arsenal as of now consists of:

      1 – Beretta CX4 Storm (9mm)
      2 – AR-15 (.223/5.56mm)
      3 – Mossberg 500 (12 guage)
      4 – Browning Bolt Action (.22 long rifle)

      This should suffice in the area I live in which is a moderately dense suburban environment. I would always advise to have a .22 rifle for tiny/small game. Plus .22 ammo is very cheap and can be lethal if you get the surprise shot and hit the right areas.

    36. Possum says:

      The 2 words no grunt ever wants to hear…..fix bayonets! Never run out of ammo.

    37. Refugee says:

      If you want to see what you will be up against, go to borderlandbeat.com everyday. The atrocities on the border are not for the people with a weak stomach. The bad guys have enough fire power to challenge large units of the Mexican military on a daily basis.

    38. Beefcake says:

      I lost all my guns, gun safe, mags, reloading supplies, and ammunition in a boating accident :)

    39. sniperfi says:

      Love the ariticle, used the same though pattern to help family members prepare. The only difference is that we utilize the 82a1 as the weapon to go to for anything over 800 yards. We live in an area that has distance, but I went for the bennelli m4 for my close and personal choice.

      As far as the argument or discussion as to what constitutes shtf who cares. When the crap starts spreading from the idoits who control this country, the lousy fleas will come out and start to bite. When that happens it will be time for pest control.

    40. Kent says:

      This sure brings back some memories… Now, with the situations we see and the scenarios we imagine I tend to view my guns in a whole different light. Over the years, I acquired a Mossberg 500, a Brolin Arms 12 guage pump I bought from a cop, A savage 22LR bolt action rifle, ten shot magazine for small game, my love, the Marlin 1894 .44 mag lever action, ten shot tube, and the Mosin….7.65 by 54….we own two .45.s oddly enough both Ruger P97 DC’s, a purchase of opportunity, and my wifes Ruger P100 .357 mag, six inch barrel. I realized it’s a mix and match gig, I do want an AR 15, or a variant, ……..faster on the trigger…..
      Maybe some three thousand assorted cartridges and shells, a third of it .22LR. I have found the .22 to be a very good choice if it was all I could get my hands on. I do not want to try lugging around a thousand 7.62 anything. Not an expert, just love shooting my guns. And now to have to consider a far more ominous possibility…
      And from my military training I can assure anyone thinking we were all stupid killers to think again…..it might save your life.

    41. JD1985 says:

      My home armory consists of whatever I am currently able to muster. As of this moment that is a 48# Re-curve. If anyone attempts to break into my home or that that any of my family occupies, be that my direct or indirect family, they will receive either an arrow to the chest, or a 6 cell mag lite delivered directly to the head. My wife and I have discussed what measures the police department will take to clean up the resultant mess and have determined that we can take it upon ourselves to remove the brains of the individual stupid enough to force themselves into our house. Considering that I may be defending my two sons, my wife, two sister-in-laws, a nephew and a niece, I take my responsibility seriously. I will never hesitate to protect or take a life if the reasoning for doing so is sincere.

      Many people say that they will defend their property, but the point of no return is when your very home is invaded with no remorse. Hopefully this is the point that many of us remember when all has come to naught and our lives are at stake, that we remember those that enter well announced, with regards of a hopeful friendship.

    42. Urban settings i go with AK.Large mobs will prowl as SHTF.Glock 20 Full size with interchangable barrel that shoots 10mm 0r .40 cal.Glock 20 is a woods gun or urban shit kicker.Saiga 12 with high velocity 00 as it cycles more proficantly.Same with Slugs.

    43. Buro says:

      Come on instead of arguing your points take out your weapons and bore sight out all your points of defense in your homestead…thats time well spent.

    44. Just saying says:

      I think a few things that are being overlooked here is selective usage and mobility. It’s great that everyone has their home armory and that will serve you/us just fine while we ride the first few waves of civil unrest or a general breakdown of services but I’d like to make two points:

      1) Limited emergency services: In a localized SHTF scenario such as Katrina, some rule of law still existed. Setting aside the fact that LE illegally seized some firearms, you had neighborhood watches shooting looters. With intermittent rule of law, I’d be very concerned about which gun I used to defend myself simply for fear of having it taken away. Example: Police forces are stretched thin but still exist and two looters attempt to break in to my house. They are carrying melee weapons (crowbar, tire iron). Armed with my AR, I shoot and kill one and the other runs off. There is now a body lying on my property. I do the legal thing and call in to report it and an officer shows up 10 hours later to file the report. Law says he has to confiscate my AR pending investigation. Given the state of civil unrest, it’s doubtful I’d ever get it back. Point is that I’d think long and hard about using my more expensive (capable?) firearms until I was absolutely sure Mr. John Q Law wasn’t going to take them from me and leave me defenseless in a situation that may only get worse. Because the guy that got away may come back with friends knowing I have resources and now my AR is gone.

      2) Mobility. Any disaster that’s looking to be long-term (year+) there’s a very good chance that you’ll need to move your family at some point. There’s a chance you’ll also run in to law enforcement checkpoints at certain places. While you may feel good about having that AR slung and ready, are you REALLY going to want to walk up to a national guard/LE checkpoint with that out and risk confiscation? On the move I think I’d try and break the AR down as small as possible to pack it and travel with my hunting rifle or sidearm (or something that looks less “military” or tactical). When packing my BOB, I break my AR down and test fit it to see how much I can conceal and if I had to how fast I could take cover and break it back out and reassemble. Point here is that, while I love my AR, nothing screams out “look at that guy” more than you walking down the street with one.

      Stay safe.

      • durango kidd says:

        Just Saying: Your point about having to release your AR to the authorities pending an investigation and trial, if any, is a good one and well taken.

        Even if the case is clear cut self defense and no charges are filed you will be without your weapon until your attorney gets it back. It would be easier and cheaper to buy another. Check with a good paralegal about the papers you would need to file in court. Have blank ones at the ready to fill out.

        One or two intruders should be repelled by a hand gun. Lock and load that AR if 50 members of a flash mob are on your porch. Wait until they actually break in before letting it rip.

        And this goes to another point. If you live in the city your property should be fenced with at least a four foot chain link fence in front and a 6 foot wood or masonry fence around the perimeter.

        If someone scales your fence they have broken the law and ignored your “beware of dogs” sign, even if it is too dark to read it. They become fair game for your guard dog. If they shoot your dog or otherwise attack it (even in self defense) they are fair game for you. Otherwise, wait until your home is invaded before letting loose.

        A craftsman will always use the right tool for the job.

    45. Gods Creation says:

      After reading the comments on this post, I feel confident the corp has succeeded in its mission to pit the people against each other.

      All of you gun freaks, the corp knows who you are and you will be at the top of the list for first strikes. I hope your guns can kill the unmanned drones that bomb you right before the tanks show up.

      You have nothing to fear but the corp, and it can only be avoided, not out gunned.

      • Refugee says:

        85 million gun owners waiting with baited breath!

      • overtheedge says:

        Point #1. Agreement

        Point 2# Yes, the goobermint knows who I am and can pull up my medical records from VA and get my current physical address and phone number. Yes, they know several of the weapons w/serial numbers I own because when I lived in the barracks as an E-6 SSG, I kept them in the arms room. However the assumption that I or the vast majority of ex-military are a threat is unfounded. Come on now, there are millions of us and we haven’t caused problems. Yes, there is the whack-jobs like Timothy McVeigh and where did it get him. But within every demographic there exists those only too willing to rage against the machine. Which brings us to …

        Point #3. I have no reason to fear anything. I avoid conflict and recognize the use of firearms as the absolute last option but also that the use might be mandatory for accomplish the mission of protect and defend. Our nation is based upon law. The highest being the Constitution and as long as “we the few, the proud” and the “army of one” ex-soldiers stand, so will the Constitution. And within it is the means and method to send the ass and trash in Washington DC to the unemployment line. I truly hope my unique skill set is never called upon.

        Out gunned? Thanks for the humor. Dying is what soldiers do. Everybody dies and most have some choice in the manner by their lifestyle. I can speak only for myself, but I have no death wish, but rather an unquenchable hunger to live as long and well as possible without making myself a threat to the community, state or nation. But out-gunned? Uh-huh. Sounds a bit paranoid to me. In combat it is a numbers game. Patton said something to the effect that, “the trick is not dying for your country, but to force the enemy to die for theirs.” My beef with black guns is we got away from 1 shot 1 kill because of rock and roll. My training? A 1000 rounds say 890 kills. I admit that I miss once in awhile.

        “HQ, we are recieving heavy fire from the western flank.”
        “Lt. are your weapons on semi?”

        I am concerned about those who fear me and the other vets. Fear breeds contempt and that leads to their overwhelming need to contain, control and disarm us. And that sir is why I am anti-communitarian. In the political arena, I have and will continue to stand against them. I will never trust a group of communtarians that use condecending passive-aggressive tactics to silence the individual. Their whole attitude of redistribution based upon their concept of equality reminds me of the pigs in Orwell’s “Animal Farm” of all animals are equal, some are just more equal than others.

        Those concerns are why the 2nd Amendment exists. The best weapon is that stuff between your ears. Use it or lose it. There has been and will continue to be stupid ex-troopers. As a squad leader and platoon sgt, I did my best to send some back to their mama. Maybe she could do something with them, but I wasn’t going to waste my troops time dealing with one shitbird. However it appears that the shitbirds are awful numerous amongst the civilian populace. The military teaches self-discipline and duty to defend the Constitution from all enemies foreign or domestic. And that, I contend, is why vets are feared by the vocal few. They are the “effective majority”; few in number but they get the media attention. The masses just want their delivered pizza and football on the HDTV. Just sheep. Some of us are willing to be the sheep dogs. The sheep hate us, but let the wolves show up and just who catches hell? That they want to neuter us and tie us to the porch concerns me. My job, my duty and my oath is to protect and defend those sheep intrusted to me.

        But a Mossberg 500, Mini-14 and a BFKnife sure don’t hurt. Peace through superior firepower.

        Which brings us full circle to pitting the sheep against the few sheep dogs still willing and able to continue the mission to protect the sheep. I agree on Point #1.
        ——————
        Yah, this was a rant. Yesterday, duty forced me to keep my mouth shut when the communitarians ranted against those who refuse to conform to their agenda (LA-21) in a public venue of several hundred locals. Ain’t it odd that they always use a woman as the spokesman? The sheep see a counter-attack against the message as an attack against the woman. Sheep have no critical thinking skills and that is why there will always be a need for the abused and confused old sheep dogs willing to do the thankless guard duty.

      • PO'dpatriot says:

        That maybe so, we shall see. I’m too old, too tired, too careless to run.

      • durango kidd says:

        GC: I do not fear the corp. I follow the law and the law will serve me as it always has. On the contrary I use the law to my advantage.

        I do not fear the flash mobs or golden hordes but expect them to manifest in the chaos that will eventually come during the earth changes. It is unlikely that they will reach me. Even so I will not leave myself defenseless if they come.

        I am not a gun freak. I do not even consider myself a weapons expert. I do consider myself an American citizen with the right to keep and bear arms, and I know how to use them. That is my heritage. It is my DNA.

      • The corp will take care of you my friend. Better grease up that fat arse of yours when you see them coming.

        • durango kidd says:

          Ed: Actually my “ars” is pretty tight. I work out every morning and bike three to five miles a day, which is why I don’t get online until afternoon. I don’t have the washboard six pack I once did, but it is hard and flat.

          I can still drain consecutive three pointers from behind the 3 pt line, but I have probably lost a step, still, I can run and sprint without getting winded, and did so this morning before getting online. Not bad for a 60 year old man who looks 40.

          You sir are a fucking foreigner. Americans say “ass”. I do not fear the MY corp. This government belongs to me. How many times do I have to tell you cowards to get some fucking backbone?

      • Seraphim1307 says:

        Hey gods creampuff,

        If our government makes a mistake (which of course is out of the question) and the unmanned drones hit your secret hideaway, just think of what “The Underground Revolution Gazette”, will have on the front cover. GC TAKES OUT DRONE WITH BLOWGUN. I just pe’ed myself

    46. European American says:

      Preparing to kill someone (or talking about it) versus having actually killed someone are two completely different universes.

      There’s some pretty bold statements being said here.

      How many of you actually have killed someone? Really. Women and children included, i.e. “Civilians”.

      Animals, i.e. deer and cows, don’t count.

      God’s Creation said:
      “So many people seem to be hoping for the S to HTF so they can shoot people”

      He hit the target dead center. And a few of you fall into that category.

      If you have ever been shot at, heard that distinct sound of spinning, hot metal whizzing through the air right over your head, seen the damage to the human body that little piece of shrapnel can accomplish in the soft tissues of the human body, you might not be talking so boldly.

      Shooting at someone, killing someone is the worst of the worst, even if they deserve it. Your life will never, ever be the same again. A portion of the sacred part of you will be gone forever.

      I have a small, exotic arsenal that any swat team would be proud of, but the truth is, these weapons represent everything that I find revolting with American society. (and no, you can’t have them)

      Watch the video

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U_CBZkuK-w

      then, let’s talk about killing. Anybody? Tell us with great detail the graphic story.

    47. DPS says:

      After reading all these post some of which are great ,I would just have to say that I myself hope and pray I never have to take a human life, I have some guns and will defend myself,and I will defend my family and property. I grew up with guns and love to hunt..As one of ours sons said,you never want to know what its like to take a mans life,he served 4 tours with airbourne.

      DPS

    48. scott says:

      One thing folks who talk big about knowledge of weapons and expertise of use is – when not to use your weapon.

      In a SHTF scenario you better know how to actually defend yourself with your hands and knife. There will be many times when you will want to eliminate the threat without giving up your position, especially if you a solo act and are stuck on the other side of town or country when the SHTF.

      Additionally, even if your a bad ass former this or that you should know the law (for pre non collapse scenarios). I spoke with a guy yesterday who took the same Utah CCW class I did and his experience was 100% different than what I had learned. Do you know that if you are taken in for shooting a perp in the middle of the night and it goes to a Grand Jury it will cost you over $50k bucks instantly?

      Do you know which home defense weapons are instantly looked at as “pre meditated weapons” by a jury? Do you know what to say to a perp on the street, in a mall parking lot or restaurant back alley that will you off if they pull in witnesses(as viewed by a jury)? When do you call 911 and what does the NRA say you should do in ALL home defense scenarios?

      IMHO there is more to it than meets the eye than just having some home or street defense weapons.Even an old lady or little kid can kill a highly skilled/trained soldier in the right situation.

      • Refugee says:

        The scenario you discuss is when law and order still exists. Most of the stuff the readers are talking about is when SHTF. Thus the name of the blog…..SHTF.

      • These are great points that one should consider when they buy a gun. It seems that people are ready to shoot, but don’t understand the consequences of their actions even if they are in the right. There is a lot to consider when deciding to take someones life. For me it would have to be a very dire dire situation before I could do so. First and foremost try to call 911 before taking extreme measures on your own. Despite a lot of negative talk about law enforcement as of late, I would like to believe that there still some decent cops out there that would do the right thing should the country go into complete meltdown.

      • scott says:

        My points

        Intruder detected – call 911 leave phone on speaker so there is no mistaken what is said.

        When confronted by a perp when no direct witnesses are around – yell DROP YOUR KNIFE DROP YOUR KNIFE DROP YOUR KNIFE – then drop him with a round to the head. The witnesses will only remember hearing “drop your knife” several times then bang bang bang.

        NRA says – inform your intruder that you have a weapon and they need to leave the premises immediately. This will also be recorded on the 911 call. Jurors will know you gave the perp several chances to leave the premises (makes you look like a real victim)which you are.

        Premeditated – Talon rounds, Desert Eagles, Slugs, assault weapon over a Walmart weapon that hasn’t been pimped out.

        Know what to say and what not to say when the police arrive. If you have a family train them to not say anything until you have a lawyer. There is a legal group available to you who specialize in this type of situation find out if they are available to you via your local NRA advocate before you talk to anyone.

        Yes I do understand this is purely a SHTF blog (been reading it for a year now), but we are not in a SHTF time at the moment and until we are I just wanted to share what I’ve been learning lately.

        The police in my city have offed 8 innocent folks in the past year and if your in a city like mine you need to know how these cowboys are going to show up on your doorstep at 3am in the morning. What’s the first thing 911 asks you? Are there any weapons in the house. You say yes and they are live and can possibly hurt the wrong person when they show up in their cowboy costumes. IMHO

    49. Buro says:

      Hey Euro, I find life sacred as most here do, however, in a gentrified country that its people have allowed themselves to be taken care of by daddy govt; what do you think will happen when Millions of people from diverse backgrounds stop getting support from dot.gov. I will do what it takes to take care of my own. If not by gun, by stick, by my bare hands if need be. It is not that I value any of my stuff, but I wil not fail those who depend on me. Simple and to the point. And as for what I have done…..don’t worry about me, I can handle whatever is thrown at me.

    50. Unknown Soldier says:

      For the everyday person, they are not interested in going to war. Merely protecting themselves.

      A rifle and shotgun are all is needed. Handguns are for the experienced. There is nothing a shotgun won’t do close up, that a hand gun will, except you can hide it.

      A 12 gauge pump (870 Remington) is the worlds best deterrent. The original point and click interface. Having a short close in barrel and a long bird barrel is what makes the pump shotgun nice, switching them takes minutes.

      Rifles: Tho I am in favor of a 22 rimfire, only a bolt action, semi-autos take too much time to be familiar with.
      If your going to use an popular caliber, I recommend 7.62×51 (308 Winchester) over any 22 center fire cal. With a bolt action sporting rifle and a semi-auto battle rifle. You will have food gathering and protection complete.

      If you have your heart set on 22 caliber, then get a bolt action, and semi-auto in the same caliber, and you will not need a 22 rimfire.

      Two rifles with the same caliber be it 308 or 223 beats one of each for logistics.

      Mall Ninja: Putting as much crap on your firearm as it will hold. Try not to be one of these, keep it as light as possible. You do not know how far you will be carrying it.

      The one thing I do not see addressed here is ammo. With out it, your left with a damn stick.

      1000 rounds should be your standard amount you should work towards.
      Once again having several firearms in the same caliber makes sense.
      Shotgun maybe 2-300 will do, if your using it, that means you are up close and personal, and may not be around to use the rest up.

      Lastly Reloading:
      Its cost effective, easy, it does take attention to detail.
      There are two types of reloaders.

      The progressive (no not liberals) reloaders that are set up to make as many rounds with the least amount of effort. These are your handgun and semi-auto folks.

      The percussion reloaders. The guys that make every round as close to the last one as possible. Mainly for long distance shooting. There guys get down right anal. I know Ive been one for over 40 years.

      Both make rounds better and cheaper than any you can buy in the store.

      You do NOT need $500 worth of crap to reload rounds. I teach folks how to start for around $1-200 bucks. Yes it is a lot slower than having the costly stuff, WAY slower than the progressive reloaders, but you can do it anywhere, at your table, while watching TV, even nest to a campfire.
      Remember the first cartridges that the US Army used, they made out in the field. Each soldier carried powder, primers, cases, and lead for smelting into bullets.

      So can YOU

    51. Plain Old American says:

      I do not believe that any emotionally healthy, rational human being ever looks forward to taking another person’s life. Personally I wish to live all of my life without ever having to harm someone. That being said I am fully aware that the streets of America are filled with folks that are NOT emotionally healthy and they are NOT rational. One only needs to read the headlines on Drudge for the past few months to see that wishing to avoid violence is not enough.

      The first thing is to think and to try to eliminate or minimize those situations that can or will lead to conflict. Given the fact that circumstances are not always within your absolute control you should be prepared to do whatever is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury or loss of life to yourself or your loved ones. For some folks on this site I believe that moving is a better option than additional firepower. I used to live in Southern California. Today I am vacillating about even making a quick trip down there to visit old friends and one family member. That is not the place to be in a SHTF scenario.

      I purchased most of my firearms to hunt with. Over the years I have added a tactical shotgun, an AR and a few other things because I do not want to rely on highly “trained” government types for my personal security.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeGD7r6s-zU

    52. NWFisher says:

      SO MANY IDEAS, so many opinions!

      Just do what folks in the military do in war. That’s tried and proven for the most part.
      An AR, AK or equivalent, with a sidearm (9mm, .40 or .45).
      That’s if things come un-glued and you’ve got anarchy.

      You cannot realistically carry more than that, along with sufficient ammo, and all the other stuff we humans need every day.

      Just get good at what you can CARRY and work with day in and day out.(try carrying an AR or AK with about 6 to 10 full mags, plus a 9mm or .45 auto with additional full mags-ALL DAY, EVERY DAY. Be realistic.

      Gonna shoot bad guys at 500+ yards? You need that sniper rifle?
      Really? How do you know he’s a bad guy? He might be coming to you to see about offering help or putting together a community security group–or maybe ask for some advice or directions so he can get his family to safety.
      You going to shoot him dead just because you don’t know him?
      You’ve got to get 50 yds or closer to have a decent conversation and get a feel for who you’re talking with.
      I wish people would cool it with the sniper stuff–too many war games on computers I guess.

      Gonna hunker down in your house with a huge arsenal? That can change in minutes.

      Your house being on fire will flush you out pretty darn fast. That’s a favorite, low-cost, low-tech method of getting people outside or clearing out neighborhoods.

      That said, extra guns for hunting (.22LR, shotgun, deer rifle, etc),investment purposes or replacements can be a good idea as finances allow. Also concealed-carry handguns.

    53. Kent says:

      I seek no conflict with anyone, and if it can be avoided, it will be. I have been shot at, several times. As for inuring or killing another, I do not know if I missed……I didn’t hang around to find out.
      It is not the govt that concerned me generally, it is the thugs, gangs and punks…….and to some extent, those relying on mmmmie govt and discovering the tit has gone dry. A semi auto twelve could come in very handy. The point of not using, and potentilly losing your best weapons is well taken. I have considered it. I would lose the Brolin before the Mossie….they take the same shells…the same could be said of chosen rifles….say a Mosin and a Rumanian AR variant…both shooting 7.62 by 54.
      Conflict is to be avoided if possible, if not, I want overwhelming firepower.
      And don’t forget to buy some first class first aid kits, some training wouldn’t hurt, either. The usual chow, water, filters, and other gear goes without saying in my book. Given a choice, I’d just as soon cool my heels with friends and family, let it all sort itself out….
      I am fortunate in living in a small town, local law enforcement good friends…….
      All points here well taken, thank you.
      And now see what gun I may want to add…..

    54. James says:

      I have read all comments to this point and agree with most.
      The whole discussion would depend on the severity of any SHTF scenario. If there is any law enforcement at all, if you are shooting at a person in excess of 100 feet and not on your property you will be on your way to jail. This is of course if they are not shooting first.
      Of course we could say that we would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6 but these days with bleeding heart juries that are shown a black rifle you had and the 22 or 380 the perp had you are going to lose.
      So I guess my point is get common non military stle weapons and learn to use effectively. God Bless, James

    55. Sam says:

      Don’t have much to add here except I have never shot anyone and hope to God that I never have to. Killing someone is one of the very few sins that I have not committed.. Hopefully, if we can get the socialist out of the WH this next election, the odds of our having to use our guns to protect our families may go down significantly. I urge everyone to pick a candidate and contribute as if your current or hoped for standard of living depends upon it. For it truly does.

      Don’t even bother ranting about the “corp”. If you think that voting means nothing, don’t bother.. I believe that it still means something and I also plan to vote strongly with my pocket book.. while I still have something left in it to give and try to make a difference. I have kids and I don’t want them growing up in a socialist utopia where they are nothing, can’t be anything and can’t hope for anything.

      • Plain Old American says:

        I agree with your point on voting. We can look at all of the problems and where we are today but the truth is that we were given a republic. It is true that things have gotten out of hand but it seems to me that if we simply throw our hands in the air and start shooting zombies then we are saying that the Constitution of The US and our system of self governmnt is not worth trying to revive. I believe that our system is the best that was ever designed and we need to teach the younger generation about liberty and self governance. I would much rather have, and win, a real nasty political fight than to deal with the loss of life and the costs of violence.

        Just on a side note, a close friend of mine is out of state to bury his 18 year old grandson. Not sure how many here have buried family members but I can tell you it sucks big time.

        Prepare for war but work for a peaceful solution. Be involved in the politics even if for no other reason than to legitimize your frustration.

        • Sam says:

          no one should ever have to bury their children, much less their grand children. Sincere sympathy to them..

          • Plain Old American says:

            Yeah, it sucks. I worked with a lady that lost her 21 year old son & his girlfriend about 3 years ago. Many years ago I had to tell my first wife her baby brother was dead then I had to go ID his body. This friend has brothers and all 3 brothers have had to bury grandkids.

            I can tell you that I have seen the results of gunshots and if anyone is looking forward to it they are freaking insane. I hope and pray I do not have to use the skills I was taught. If I can run I will. If I have no recourse to but to take someone’s life I’ll do that but I know I will never be the same.

            War is a game only to the banksters that finance it. Everyone else loses.

        • Gods Creation says:

          The corp can not turned back into the Republic, no matter how many diebold votes you cast.

          It must not be attacked either, because it has used the stolen proceeds to arm itself and hire millions of soldiers trained only to defend it and follow it’s orders. Not all of them are dressed in military uniforms or carry guns.

          Mass non participation is required. The People must refuse it’s licenses, and refuse to follow its unlawful corporate regulations.

          Unfortunately, those who claim they are not afraid of the corp continue to register themselves and their property under it’s ownership. The vast majority of the people, armed or not, are property of the corp. Not lawfully, but legally.

          Until that changes, the corp will continue unabated while many good Men arm themselves to fight each other.

      • Bloodyfellow says:

        Ron Paul Anthem Music Video MUST SEE!!

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiKh9Ko3mw4

    56. Bloodyfellow says:

      The jokes of the day!

      The liberals are asking us to give Obama time.
      We agree…and think 25 to life would be appropriate.
      –Jay Leno

      America needs Obama-care like
      Nancy Pelosi needs a Halloween mask.
      –Jay Leno

      Q: Have you heard about McDonald’s’
      new Obama Value Meal?
      A: Order anything you like
      and the guy behind you has to pay for it.
      –Conan O’Brien

      Q: What does Barack Obama
      call lunch with a convicted felon?
      A: A fund raiser.
      –Jay Leno

      Q: What’s the difference between
      Obama’s cabinet and a penitentiary?
      A: One is filled with tax evaders, blackmailers,
      and threats to society.
      The other is for housing prisoners.
      –David Letterman

      Q: If Nancy Pelosi and Obama were on a boat
      in the middle of the ocean and it started to sink,
      who would be saved?
      A: America!
      –Jimmy Fallon

      Q: What’s the difference between
      Obama and his dog, Bo?
      A: Bo has papers.
      –Jimmy Kimmel

      Q: What was the most positive result of
      the “Cash for Clunkers” program?
      A: It took 95% of the Obama bumper
      stickers off the road.
      –David Letterman

    57. Refugee says:

      I hate everybody. I even hate myself. I’d get a running start and punch myself in the face if I could! What do you think of that?

    58. Sam says:

      Just fixed an overlooked hole in our prep. Can’t believe I didn’t think of it. Good old fashioned Fly swatters. Could only find them at the dollar store. Bad mosquito year here…

    59. BigHog says:

      My current assortment consists of several .22 rifles. One of them shoots shorts, longs, and Long rifle. one 12 and one 20 ga pump shotgun. One Marlin 336 in .35 Rem and lastly a S&W .357 Mag 27-2 in 5″. Do I really need anything else. From what i have read the 336 makes a very good home defense weapon, plus I can hunt with it. If I am missing something, let me know. I think I should probably lean toward reloading equipment? The .35 Rem round is over a dollar a bullet. Just looking for thoughts on what would you do if you had what I have for weapons. Also any ideas on where to purchase a bandolier for .35 Rem

    60. Mal Reynolds says:

      I tried getting through all the comments before work, but alas, I’m out of time. So forgive me if I’m wrong…

      But nobody even mentioned body armor?

    61. emptyhandkiller says:

      Hey, Refugee! I think you are great! I hate myself, too! I have been trying to chop off my own head with an axe, but I keep missing… I hacked off an ear and some of my scalp, but I will keep trying. Us preppers never give up! In the meantime, Kill the Hippies, Kill the Hippies, Kill the Hippies!!!!

    62. A). Why do anti gun people think armed preppers want SHTF?
      B). Why does this same group assume we want a gun fight? Or to kill?

      These idiotic assumptions are false. I own, collect and even accumulate guns I pray are never used. I’ve already had to use them more then I ever care to think about thanks. They are a last resort option….period. An option I’d much rather not be without!

    63. Mad Max says:

      No matter how much we arm ourselves, there will never be enough food, water and ammo to out last the years of chaos that will occur when the “shtf”. It’s too easy to curl up in our bunker homes because we don’t know what to do. That will be the real disaster, because at that point we will have been effectively divided and concurred.

      Memo to America: Stop waiting for Democrats and Republicans to save you. It’s bad for your health and your future. Can’t you tell?

      “WAKE UP PEOPLE!”
      Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( http://www.revolution2.osixs.org )

    64. Son of Mushroom says:

      I sold all my guns, ammo, and storage food when the prices hit their peak. I now have #10 cans full of ten dollar bills. When the bad men come, I will simply purchase food from them and pay them to go away.

      My dad is always right.

    65. Slim says:

      “Socialism only works

      in two places:

      Heaven where they don’t

      need it and hell where they already have it.”

      -Ronald Reagan

    66. Gods Creation says:

      I have been called some mean names on this thread for pointing out that guns are only preps up to certain point, and after that they are a waste of resources unless your INTENT is to be able to arm others who you will likely not know in the fight against the corp. For most situations weapons other a gun would be preferable, if the situation can not be avoided entirely.

      What has been confirmed is even the people here are not focused on the right enemy, or the right tactics to defeat it. Half awake, half asleep.

      As long as that is the case, ALL of the guns will be useless and even the best armed will be overrun by the corp army in due time. Most likely, those well armed with registered weapons will fall first as the corp protects itself in the only way it can. And no, they will not send a squad car, but tanks probably staffed with foreign mercenaries.

      The fight against the corp will not be won with guns. It will be won by the masses of People working together with the common goal of it’s elimination and the restoration of law and sound money under the law.

      While some will call me the most arrogant asshole on this blog, as was done, or a fucking asshole repeatedly for not obeying the corp, thereby somehow wasting their time????, the facts remain the same.

      If the corp is to be defeated, the People must go on offense and not play defense. If it could find Saddam Hussein in a hole in the ground, it can find you if given the time and the desire.

      What is offense? Quit sending it your money. Quit giving it ownership interest in your property. Quit communicating with it in any way. Retract your W-4/SSN and tell your corporate employer you no longer wish to participate. Show them the law, it is very clear. Otherwise you are making a conscious choice to be a well armed slave.

      But these things must be done by many people, not just one. And they must be done quickly because your masters have put the country on the fast track to a total fascist dictatorship.

      Here is a brief overview that about sums it up.

      http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/08.11/lips.html

      A collection of guns by sparse individuals will not win this war. They will help the corp identify it’s main threat, you as the owner of multiple registered assault firearms. And whatever it does to you, it does with your consent so long as you seek its approval.

      There is big talk about protecting the guns and preps, but until enough people on this land get the balls to opt out of the corp and tell it where to go, it will continue using your own money to abuse you.

      So go ahead and get your permission slips (licenses) from your master. Give it your assets by attaching its number to them. Register your property so it knows right where to find it, and you. Make sure you have all of your papers in order when it comes for you. Maybe it will go easy on you. The corp NEEDS YOUR CONSENT to do anything, and it gets it from those things.

      Again, guns will not win this war. It will take balls enough to be a Man in the face of the fiction that is the only true enemy you face.

      • Bored says:

        corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp,corp.

    67. Harry Bawls says:

      I don’t do group hugs.

    68. 4th Planet from the Sun says:

      I agree with Plain Old American, as a kid I have seen the ravages of gun use and lack of knowledge of how to use a gun. My dad was murdered in a stupid game of bluff, he dared a man to shoot him in an argument, the guy did end result death. He did not have his gun with him. Four years in Mexico, later his younger brother, in a gunfight, left the protetion of his house, to engage what he thought were thieves, unfortunately, they were mexican cops who thought he was a thief, end result death. Outgunned and outnumbered, no protection, same result. Before I bought my first gun I made a decision, it serves 3 purposes by order of amount of use, target practice, hunt and self preservation. I also made a decision/commitment to myself that if I had to pull my weapon in self defense that it would be the last option and that if I had to I would have to kill a person. That was the hardest part, all this came from the lessons from my own family. I spoke to several gun owners, took the concealed liscence class, and they are all in agreement that using a gun is the last option. I continue to prep and continue to gain knowledge and train to use a gun properly and when to use it. Good luck to all and God bless America.

    69. Cortez says:

      If you want to see the future of the USA, go to borderlandbeat.com everyday. Secure the border. Lock and load.

    70. harley hooch says:

      GET ANY GOOD COMPOUND BOW AND ALUMINUM ARROWS AND SHOOT IT 12 TIMES EVERYDAY. Get you a bale of hay to shoot at. That is what i did and i got good real fast. You will amaze yourself. You will scare the hell out of anyone if you shoot an arrow at them. It is a silent killer. a must have weapon.

     
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