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    Alternatives to a Bugout Location – What You Should Consider

    Holly Deyo
    September 24th, 2012
    Millennium Ark
    Comments (246)
    Read by 54,661 people

    Every person will face an ugly new reality when life as we know it vanishes. It’s coming. Soon. It might be a slow crawl decline or a rapid descent into nightmarish conditions. Various scenarios now flit threateningly across the horizon. If we’re brave enough to peer into the abyss, we can see some of these events bordering on fruition. Most are unnerving; some will be paralyzing. Regardless of the fright factor, we must examine individually how to handle these looming crises. When they strike, people without a plan in place, will die.

    So what’s lurking about?

    GRID DOWN

    What threatens us now is nothing we’ve ever experienced. Life would change unspeakably from a mega-disaster dwarfing Hurricane Katrina. Catastrophic grid failure from EMPs or the Sun throwing a massive CME at Earth would instantly hurl much of the globe into 3rd world conditions. There is precedence.

    October 2003 the Sun shot off a life-withering X45 mega-flare. This was more than twice as big as any previous event. The only thing that saved us from a grid-down catastrophe was this raging storm erupting away from Earth. Had this been Earth-directed, you would not be reading this article now. Life would have changed cataclysmically.

    Photo above right: ‘The biggest previous solar flares on record were rated X20, on April 2, 2001 and August 16, 1989. So 2003′s explosion certainly set a new mark. But only now do scientists understand the probable true power of the event. The New Zealand researchers in Otago looked at the effect the flare’s radiation had on the Earth’s upper atmosphere and used that to judge its strength. The changes the Otago researchers saw allowed them to produce a new estimate of the flare’s intensity, Increasing its rating from X28 to X45. “This makes it more than twice as large as any previously recorded flare,” said Associate Professor Neil Thomson.’ (SOHO) 1

    Hardly any news source except the BBC reported this flare’s mammoth upgrade from a never-before seen X28 to X45 mega-flare status.

    ECONOMIC ARMAGEDDON

    Global economic meltdown or further terrorist attacks certainly loom larger based on recent events.

    Image left. On October 24 (“Black Thursday”), the market lost $30 million or 11% of its value at the opening bell on very heavy trading. The next day, “Black Tuesday”, October 29, 1929, about 16 million shares were traded, and the Dow lost an additional 30 points, or 12%.2

    $30 million may seem like a mere drop today, but 8 decades ago it was cataclysmic. Today this inter-dependent economy is balanced on a pinpoint. Any ill-wind could blow it into oblivion.

    Photo right: On Sept. 12 this year, LukOil advertised $9 a gallon for gas in NJ and NY. While this was a protest sign, gas
    prices may escalate with a Middle East conflagration to the point where truckers simply can’t afford to transport goods. Since trucks distribute roughly 80% of everything we purchase, if they don’t move the goods, grocery stores and every other retail venue will die from economic strangulation. From that point, trouble travels in all directions to every aspect of life. Ripping the lid off all of America’s strategic oil reserves would only supply 36 days of fuel.

    Experts suggest that when diesel reaches $6 a gallon, shipment of goods will slow drastically. At $7 a gallon, expect full shutdown.

    FUKUSHIMA FUBAR (FOULED-UP BEYOND ALL RECOGNITION)

    One often-ignored scenario involves a Fukushima-type event in the U.S., where one or more of our 104 nuclear reactors goes into meltdown. Of these 104 reactors, 23 were built just like the Fukushima Daiichi plant and over half of America’s reactors are 30-40 years old. Worse, instead of rebuilding or replacing these aging facilities, owners have applied for 20 years extensions.

    What worsens the situation here is that the vast majority of spent fuel rods is stored on-site to the point of overflowing. That’s why it was imperative that alternative solutions be researched like the now-abandoned Yucca Mountain Repository in Nevada. Obama scuttled this project and wasted $90 billion in taxpayers money. Meanwhile, the spent fuel rods continue to stack up.

    Though these 23 ‘precarious’ power plants are mainly in the South, Midwest and Northeast, as seen with Fukushima, wind and water would carry their poison all over the U.S… all over the globe. So just because your state doesn’t host a nuclear reactor, you aren’t ‘safe’. It’s like the firemen’s motto from Backdraft: “You go, we go.”

    Now factor in this ugly thought….

    The Cumbre Vieja volcano sits just south of the U.S. off the northwest tip of Africa. I exposed this ‘Sword of Damocles” a decade ago in Prudent Places USA. In short, should the slipping side of this volcano continue its devastating slide into the ocean, it will slam a towering tsunami into America’s eastern seaboard within 8 hours. Even with notice the very instant this event begins, most of the East and Southeast coastal people will die. This mega-tsunami will wipe out everything in its path for 12-1⁄2 miles inland. It’s not that folks won’t try to evacuate, but when you ask tens of millions of people to move at once, massive gridlock follows. People can’t outrun, outdrive a body of water 165 feet high, traveling 450mph.

    Image: Check the evacuations times on the map on the right. Panicked people all converging on the highways and freeways simultaneously means these folks will end up going nowhere and likely die in their vehicles.

    Spurred by shear panic, people will tailgate causing innumerable wrecks. People will die from heart attacks simply from the stress. Still others will stop for a pee break because they didn’t the foresight to bring along a Lady J or Little John, or even a coffee can. All stops in traffic delays every single car. Every roadway in line of this mega-tsunami will become motionless parking lots.

    OTHER UGLIES

    More nasty disasters are also possible. People on the West Coast bravely ignore the “Big One” while people throughout the heartland wait for a repeat of the dreaded New Madrid mega-quake.

    Yellowstone is also long overdue for another mighty blow.

    And lest we forget, new superbugs are being concocted in various Bio Level 4 labs around the country and around the world. These are in addition to an expected pandemic whether it comes in the form of H1N1 or some more deadly recombined flu, antibiotic-resistant MRSA, Necrotizing Fasciitis – the incurable flesh-eating disease, or ebola set loose in America as a bio-threat. But there’s enough to worry about with the scenarios already listed without borrowing more, likely threats.

    Any of these situations would mandate martial law.

    MARTIAL LAW A CERTAINTY, POSSE COMITATUS DEAD

    Hurricane Katrina brought innumerable valuable lessons beside the obvious that FEMA has its collective head up its nether-parts and remains reasonably useless. The only guy who ever had the courage to speak the truth was former FEMA director, James Lee Witt. Stan and I heard him in October 1996 warning Americans that they’d better prep up because FEMA simply couldn’t meet all the demands of the coming El Niño. Boy, was he right! Not only was he a maverick bucking government’s “keep your mouth shut” protocol, he was right. FEMA is even more neutered now, made even less capable of bailing out people due to lack of funds and personnel.

    Photo below left: ‘Emergency preparedness legislation and FEMA executive orders that have been in effect for decades, were suddenly put into use at the expense of basic freedoms. The Posse Comitatus Act was overturned as active duty military paraded the streets and aided police in confiscating firearms and implementing mandatory evacuation orders.’ (Alex Jones, Infowars)

    Second, the U.S. is not prepared for major crises. Compared to 2005, we have less available rescue personnel and more depleted coffers to fund disaster relief.

    Third, cops will and do shoot people during disaster chaos.

    Fourthmartial law has been enacted in America. Just wait till we see another crisis of even greater magnitude. Citizens will be stuck in their homes, at gunpoint, with little recourse and fewer options, if no plan of action is in place.

    Fifth, Posse Comitatus is dead. That long held promise of keeping US troops from turning on Americans is gone. Again, it started with Hurricane Katrina. (Between that and the 911 attacks, what events have done more to extinguish civil rights?) Posse Comitatus was demolished in 2008 as part of the Defense Authorization Bill. Foreshadows of this shocking transition developed after Katrina when the Pentagon proposed to use military reservists during natural disasters. Be sure to click on the additional 12 articles right under Pentagon Proposal to Use Military Reservists in Natural Disasters Angers States’ Governors addressing this disturbing legislation.

    Katrina was the perfect springboard. From there it is a hop/skip to condition Americans seeing military corral citizens and become defacto prison guards.

    Shocker: Whoever over age 30 thought we’d ever see America in this situation? Words fail this author…

    IT SHOULD BE NOTED…

    Stan and I come from a long line of distinguished military personnel, people who gave their lives for fellow Americans, made service to others their career. But these disasters have morphed our military into something foreign, something law promised we would never see again.

    DICHOTOMIES IN ACTION

    We have close personal friends who are Oathkeepers and a neighbor within arm’s reach – who, when questioned if he were ordered to kill fellow Americans – remained silent. Fill in the blanks. This is yet another example of how fractured our Country has become. Who kills fellow Americans?

    PRACTICAL PREPAREDNESS – WHERE CAN YOU BUGOUT?

    So what can be done? What is in the realm of possibility – not wishful thinking?

    Preparedness pundits often suggest that people buy a bugout location, outfit it as a second home, but with the additional wallet-ripping caveat of making it self-sufficient. The dollars needed for such an expenditure mushroom into the staggering. When so many people have lost jobs and forfeited homes, the thought of buying an additional property sparks despair, if not outrage. All too often, ‘experts’ answer problems by throwing cash at them – money most people don’t have right now. So what, only the well off should survive? Anyone can suggest ‘money-solutions’, look to an easy answer, but that doesn’t work for most folks. Frankly, it’s a cheap-shot, easy answer to an expensive, tough problem.

    RAGE UNMASKED

    When things ‘go south’, people will get angry. Very angry. They will want what you have. No one plans to work their butt off thinking some day it could be jerked away in a heartbeat by thugs or Executive Order. Yet these are the times and scenarios in which we live today. This photo below left is a ‘pretty’ picture compared to what’s coming. Wait till it’s your car, your home torched simply because people ‘have not’ and want yours. Then multiply that by tens of millions of angry militant masses. Riots will be the (lack) of order for the day and all in their way will be swept into turmoil.

    Most basic is food. The need to supply one’s family with adequate nutrition ranks right up there with breathing. Even if you have enough to spare a can of soup for neighbors, soon word will spread and you’ll be over-run by those in need, despite heartfelt promises to keep their lips zipped. How will you deal with hungry hoards of people?

    One solution is to face what comes right where you are. For that you need a plan in place and be ready.

    IN SITU

    The easiest and least expensive answer is to stay right where you are. Suppose you have a small family or one with only 2 adults. You’ll need 6 to 8 adults in the best case scenario to defend an average-sized residence. Most houses have roughly 4 directions to guard. This situation allows for 4 people on-watch and 2 to 4 to rest and perform other chores like cooking, sanitizing, etc. More people living in this space becomes cumbersome, too invasive and too difficult to sustain considering the space required for sleeping, to house stored water, food, ammo, weapons, medical supplies, etc. and to provide adequate sanitation if/when services go down.

    If a person without funds looks like a really great addition to the group, whether in situ or going for a rental property, don’t automatically cross them off. This person might have great skills or supplies for barter. Sometimes these offerings are worth more than actual funds contributed and everybody wins.

    On-site home defense is the easiest and least problematic solution providing you find the right partners to team with, as a great portion of your survival supplies are already in place. Plus, it keeps costs of a new property to zero.

    Trust will be one of the biggest concerns. Con artists will ooze from the walls wanting handouts, offering to contribute everything, yet providing nothing. Some people have a really ‘good read’ on others, but disaster and necessity can cloud judgment. This requires razor sharp perceptivity and no-frills assessment. If people don’t ‘feel right’ to you, regardless of how desperate circumstances seem, give them a miss. Hopefully the right people will fall across your path and serious prep inroads can be made.

    NEIGHBORHOOD CHECK-UP

    Nose around your neighbors. Check their prep temperature again. Discretely.

    At our last month’s neighborhood dinner party, which Stan and I hosted a week ago, a decidedly different feeling permeated the air. Some that had shunned preparedness, not to mention firearms, changed their attitude – hugely so. Previously, only about 1/4 of our group actively stored extra food and water. Last Sunday, whoaa! had the air become purified! Only 2 weren’t on board yet.

    After champagne brunch, talk turned serious about current events and preparing. Maybe the light alcohol freed their tongues or maybe it was the unavoidable feeling of urgency, but something was definitely different.

    One nurse mentioned she was surprised hearing so many radio PSAs (Public Service Announcements) urging personal preparedness. Another person commented that she could “just feel something is wrong”. A third person, a detective in the Cañon City prison system, offered his insights about a collective unease on the force. All the cops were talking about it, he said. A fourth person – after 8 years of knowing him – stated he now keeps his 357 Magnum under his bed, a rifle in the corner and various other weapons and ammo around his place. We didn’t even know he owned a firearm!

    It was interesting to note that his wife, the only ‘lefty’ in the group, once she saw plague-ridden prairie dogs encroaching too close to her property last summer, asked Stan to come and shoot them. Funny how the worm turns when it’s about to screw up your apple. Attitudes change when it becomes personal. People usually caught up in boating, camping, traveling and other life pleasures are all sensing unease and the need to be ready.

    POOLING:

    Should in-situ work best, a complete inventory from all parties needs to be taken and shared with all members. Don’t hold back on personal ‘holes’ out of embarrassment. People must be honest to see the group’s shortcomings and strengths. Make a check list of supplies: food, medications, ammo/weapons and water purification, etc. Use our Dare To Prepare as your resource and guide, and our FREE ready-to-go Deyo Food Storage Planner (xls spreadsheet download) for inventory taking. Items other than food can be added as needed. It’s a great user-friendly list to keep track of supplies on hand and spot areas to beef up.

    Just the opposite of pooling supplies, get rid of excess space-wasting junk. People fare much better in less crowded spaces and a much-needed garage sale can fund extra cash for unintended expenses.

    RENTING PROPERTY

    Another solution is renting a viable property. This keeps your name ‘off-book’ providing better invisibility with your name off property tax records and deeds. Additionally it requires a considerably less investment than purchasing a second property. Divide that expense among 6 or 8 adults and the initial $$ needed further diminishes. Offer to pay 1 or 2 years in advance – in cash – and the amount due is chopped even further. This situation keeps you minimally exposed with more cash in pocket.

    When looking for a second location, keep in mind the word ‘survival’. That is the goal. Chances are a bugout place will not have all the amenities and comforts you’re used to. The prime question past affordability should be, is it doable, is it a defensible location?

    Try to locate a bugout not made of wood or with a shake shingle roof or with a wood deck attached. If someone tries to burn you out, the less combustibles available, the better. That said, many of the 359 homes lost in Colorado’s largest-ever fire this summer were built out of stucco with tiled roofs. When a fire is ferocious enough, nothing will stop it. However, fire resistant construction materials give you an edge against flame-throwing intruders.

    Thinking to call the fire department? When things go this far into the dumper, firefighters will likely be drafted into chaos-quelling duty or at home protecting their own families, not fire protection. You will be on your own.

    Before deciding on a rental house, check its location with regard to freeways, roads, high population areas, prisons, military installations, etc., proximity to poor areas, natural disasters, flooding and other undesirable scenarios. Check to see how visible it is to Google Earth and other intrusive software.

    When you deem it time, discretely move whatever amount of survival supplies you decide is clever to this location. If really exposed in your current home, you may want to move everything to the rental. Or, you may choose to play both ends and keep supplies at each. Whatever the decision, make sure everything is in place before “the day”.

    WATER

    How many times have ‘experts’ advised to opt ONLY for property if it has an originating water source. What are the odds? If you live in the desert southwest, not strong. It’s not impossible, but don’t let this be the deciding factor if nothing else is available.

    Maybe it has a well head with water naturally rising within only a few feet of the surface. In this instance, whether power stays on or not, the simplest hand pump can retrieve life-saving water. Otherwise a generator, solar power or some other means of alternate power will be required if stored water runs short.

    When we lived in Australia, one of our two wells brought water within 18 feet of the surface, so great was the pressure and supply. However, in the high desert, things are considerably different.

    STEAMED UP OVER THE TEAM UP

    Before deciding to get in bed with someone, metaphorically speaking, honestly assess what bugs you about them and what you can learn to live with. This is something each team member must do. If someone is highly allergic to pets, hooking up to a group with dog and cat family members could be a challenge.

    If kids’ normal activities get on the nerves, it’s better to search for a different group. They’re just being kids and this isn’t going to change.

    Additionally, if someone comes into the group just as a ‘warm’ body or place holder, resentment will build and frankly there’s no room for slackness in these scenarios. Lives depend on all participants, specially when small numbers are involved. Everyone must pull his or her weight in the agreed-upon manner.

    Another source of friction can come with the division of property. It’s normally understood if you open up your home to others, newcomers get the spare rooms. However, if everyone goes into a rental, the situation becomes trickier and squabbling can ensue. People will need to agree on seemingly simple issues like closet and fridge space, bigger bedrooms vs. guest rooms, chores, utility costs and other expenses to divvy up. Chances are you’ll be in place weeks or maybe several months while ‘real life’ goes on until TSHTF.

    INTENTIONAL COMMUNITIES

    Cooperative living scenarios might sound great at first glance to those without a place to go, without adequate skills or feeling too exposed to go it alone. However, once a ‘survival’ population gets too far above single digit numbers, it becomes interesting to government or other groups vested in moving you to ‘toes up’ status. Smaller groups are less threatening to the powers that be, easier to organize, more mobile and less inclined to attract unwanted attention. Think small enough to be nearly invisible, large enough to be practical. Most importantly, think now.

    Whatever your decision, time grows short as winter sets in and threats loom ever closer.


    ABOUT THE AUTHOR:

    Holly Drennan Deyo is the author of three books: bestseller Dare To Prepare (4th ed.), Prudent Places USA (3rd ed.) andGarden Gold (2nd ed.) Please visit she and her husband’s website: standeyo.com and their FREE Preparedness site: DareToPrepare.com.

    References:

    1 Sun’s Massive Explosion Upgraded, March 17, 2004, By Dr David Whitehouse, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3515788.stm.

    2 Wall Street Crash of 1929, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_Crash_of_1929
    http://standeyo.com/NEWS/12_USA/120924.bugout.alternatives.html

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    Author: Holly Deyo
    Views: Read by 54,661 people
    Date: September 24th, 2012
    Website: http://standeyo.com

    Copyright Information: This content has been contributed to SHTFplan by a third-party or has been republished with permission from the author. Please contact the author directly for republishing information.

     

    246 Comments...

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    1. burrrrrrrrrp says:

      The FIRST thing you should have is a backup bugout location

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 27 Thumb down 36

      • Facebook Page says:

        Our group is well stocked and ready. But it cost money. If you are just starting. Just stay home work it from there. If you are stuck in a Big city then i could see the go to the woods but only then. We have been at this since the late 80. Not because of the world around us. But because the type of professional we all chose. We all new our family needed a stable life if anyone of the heads of household couldn’t continue. With time we knew also the world would reset. We knew it was way out but it fell in to what we made our lives already.

        Yes every step you take make further off better then most. But if it gets as bad as i think going to be there is so much so many have to do. And for the most part people arnt up to it anymore.

        Good luck even we need just a little more.

        People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 9

        • Tina says:

          I was wondering what FUBAR stood for…and now I know.

          People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 3

        • Prepared Pastor says:

          The cost varies a lot depending upon location. My wooded mountain acreage cost $5,000 and included driveway cutouts and water. The solar cabin cost another $5,000. I wanted a new truck, but for the same cost bought a 22 year-old pickup and everything else we need to hunker down for years.

          One of my back up locations is a rented self-storage unit in a rural area between home and retreat. Open the 4′ door and find a wall of old tires, but behind that is a loft bed with fuel and water storage beneath it and some basic supplies. The most valuable stuff is hidden in old furniture. Eventually these would be looted, but early in a crises could provide much needed rest and provision.

          Be sure to lock the outside hasp in the open position and lock it from the inside with a chain should you decide to close the roll-up door while inside.

          People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 40 Thumb down 1

          • Jim says:

            Desert property is dirt cheap. Some has water only 15/20 ft below which you can create a hand pumped well for quite easily. Another nice feature in the desert is that you can build adobe style walls so cheap! If you brought a bag do cement and mixed it in it will go along way and really add to the fortitude of your adobe…..darn near bullet proof if you go thick enough. Certainly fire proof.

            People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 19 Thumb down 0

          • Odd Questioner says:

            @Jim: There is a bit of downside still, however. You’d be pumping water all day long just to keep the crops irrigated, and a well could exhaust itself quickly if you didn’t site it properly (or drill deep enough, etc). Also, pre-collapse, you’d damned well better have your water rights squared away, else that well you drill might get you into deep kimchi with the local authorities.

            OTOH, a small setup for a family of 3-4 (say, 5 acres or so) could work, especially if you stuck with drought-tolerant plants and crops that require little water (e.g. wheat, dates, palms, etc). If your desert property has a stream bed nearby that might see water during winter/spring, you’re even better, as water often sits very close to the surface there, and tree roots can tap into it once they become sufficiently mature.

            Just requires a *lot* of looking beforehand for the best conditions.

            People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

          • Yellow Sub Pilot says:

            @Jim
            Check out CEBs, Compressed Earth Blocks. You can make them anywhere and stronger than adobe. A better insulator than adobe too. Cool stuff.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_earth_block

            $2,500 USD Habiterra Affordable House
            http://youtu.be/EBkv5jjjhJ0

            CEB Bullet Proof Test
            http://youtu.be/GyKx6b2NOoU

            People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

        • Disavowed 1 says:

          Oath Keepers are Champions FOR the American people against tyranny, they will be there to assist and form some semblace of structure and maintain a peaceful atmosphere if SHTF.
          Were all trained and qualified leaders in our own right with the full backgrounds of Military, Police and EMS training. We will be there to help, and ensure the general public will not be violated by having to comply with illegal orders if* that day ever comes God forbid.
          Were here for you, were not the enemy.
          Keeping in line with our Oath sworn to the Constitution of the USA is our moniker. Accept no other substitutes.

          Remember your Oath’s.

          -BD

          People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 29 Thumb down 2

      • possee says:

        Let’s be real here..

        Say you are at work 45 minutes from home..
        your spouse is another hour away in the opposite direction
        and your adult kids are all over the state at work and/or college..and on their own as well.

        add to the mix we’re on a peninsula with only 2 bridges accessing the mainland..

        in any shtf scenario everyone’s instinct(and plan)is to head home..period..
        home is where our preps are/water/medicine/heat source and arsenals…

        who the hell has available cash(or credit)to head somewhere else bugout location when most of us live week to week as a norm these days just to keep a roof over our heads….???

        how about some real world advice for those of us in this situation?

        possee

        People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 99 Thumb down 5

        • RICH99 says:

          excellent comment….most of these people are RAMBO wannabe’s who clearly aren’t thinking logically ….its like they are living out their G.I. JOE childhood dreams !

          People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 34 Thumb down 14

        • Another Comment says:

          Hidden due to low comment rating. Click to read it.

          Poorly-rated. What do You Think? Thumb up 1 Thumb down 27

          • Zoltanne says:

            Angry middle-aged women are very easy to read. How about using some of that negativity on self-improvement? Consider it part of your preps. You might actually accomplish something and that attitude would improve and make your life more manageable. Face it, only you have to live with yourself — it’s your decision.

            People like this comment. Do You? Thumb up 33 Thumb down 6

        • Odd Questioner says:

          1. That’s what the get-home bags are for

          2. Something to consider: forget counting minutes… how many miles are we talking here? A 45-minute drive in a dense urban area could be as little as 10-15 miles.

          3. If you’re not physically fit enough to walk those distances, I suggest getting into shape ASAP. I say this because odds are you ain’t driving.

          4. If you live in a dense urban area, you’ve got a few special troubles (and believe it or not, some advantages), so you may be stuck with hunkering down at home for awhile.

          5. Get in extremely good with your neighbors, because someone needs to watch your place while you and your spouse ain’t there.

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          • Viet-Nam 68 says:

            OQ – All excellent points ! Just getting what I have presumed to be intelligent neighbors to do the first sentence of item # 3. is falling of deaf ears. Maintaining fitness is the least expensive prep one needs to be doing and will deliver the most benefit.

            I still maintain the PT standards to get my gear, and head, where it needs to be. Sadly, those around me just chuckle at the physical efforts I put forth.

            Yet when someone, or thing , needs lifting in the hood…. I get called. I just hope i can get return assistance when needed.

            Stay alert everyone! While the lemmings run for the iPhones, the fabric of society is unraveling.

            Peace.

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          • Yes, great points. The GTFH bag should be nothing more than a backpack with the essentials to make an off the beaten path return home. Mine is geared toward a maximum of 2 weeks in the wild before getting home on foot, taking some of the worst terrain as to avoid encounters. Even though it weighs in at 30 pounds, I can still run short bursts and jog almost indefinitely with it. Practice with your gear or you’re going to be surprised if you ever have to use it.

            As for bugging out, that is diametrically opposed to my situation. So, if you’re in a situation where bugging out just won’t work for a myriad of reasons, make the best of what you have. Secretly fortify, plan and survey your surroundings and do what you can. The way I see it, if I can’t make it where I’m at, then I’m probably screwed either way. Most of us can only do so much.

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          • Yellow Sub Pilot says:

            My get home bag includes a fold-able bike in my trunk. Soon to include a small motor kit so I don’t have to peddle so far.

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          • Odd Questioner says:

            @Yellow Sub Pilot:

            Err, bicycling can often be just as physically demanding (and occasionally moreso) than walking, especially if there are hills involved. The trade-off is the increased speed and distance the bicycle gives you.

            Given the distances I would have to go in order to get home if I were at my office when SHTF, I’d actually given that a lot of thought. I wound up writing it off because the terrain I need to cross is not very bicycle-friendly (unless it were a heavy-framed mountain bike), and because it tends to bite into mobility a bit, especially when it comes to crossing steep ravines and rivers.

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        • jayjay says:

          Thanks possee–for one who chooses to opt out of cable/tv just to have money to spend on preps, this topic of bug out is so far from reach, it’s funny.
          Seriously, we are to the bare bones in respect to budgeting, but a retreat??
          There’s nothing left to cout out that hasn’t been; and even then, it’s just not realistic.
          You have this secure haven, and there are several scenarios that will prevent you from getting there–now, all that effort will go to a looter.
          PUH-LEEZE.

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        • This article gave a good workout plan on how to prepare at home, in a rental or the possibility of a bug out location.

          Make sure to have a decent bug-out-bag in your care that will get you home even if it takes 3 days.

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        • AnonLegion says:

          True answer is to be better prepared with what you know not what you have. Survivalist 101. I have my mind I have my body I can make and do what ever is needed to survive. Can you go into the woods with nothing but the cloths on your back and survive? Can you provide for your children this way? If not then you are not ready.

          Good information http://www.wildernesscollege.com/ just sift thru thier items learn more about the things they talk about. Don’t just go get books and read them, try it, live it on a camp out for a few days see how you do. Use them and use them until you become efficent.

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        • Possee,

          Great points for sure. I think the concept of Bugging Out is a very realistic one to consider if when you think about natural disasters or similar events which would force you to leave home very quickly. In this instance having a good Bugout plan is crucial for getting everyone evacuated quickly when the clock is ticking.

          For SHTF purposes I think Bugging out is also practical but often romanticized to a point where it becomes a little ridiculous. If you do have a great offsite location you can travel to, more power to you. Most people do not.

          Focus on what you can control, quite often “heading for the hills” would be more dangerous than simply staying within the familiar confines of your own community. Besides even if you did strike out into the unknown with all of your Bugout gear and family….where would you go? (This assuming you had no retreat set up to go to). How long with the average middle aged American family with 3 kids last in the hills when all they did prior to bugging out was sit in a cubicle?

          Just some things to keep in mind.

          PJ

          Prepper-Resources.com

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          • John W. says:

            If you live in a large city or have to cross/go near one to get to your bugout location you are not going to make it. If you already live in a rural or small town and just want to go a few miles out then you will be OK. No big city people unless they live way out on the edge of that city in the direction they need to go and have a head start are going anywhere.

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        • MattM says:

          Some SHTF’planners are more financially secure. Just because the article doesn’t apply to you doesn’t mean it might not have value to others.

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        • resuwrecked says:

          Delmarva?

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        • Indio says:

          Put some canned food in the trunk of your car along with some water jugs, get some walkie talkies, put one in your wifes car and keep one in your car, the kind you can power up with battery from car. Keep a small handgun loaded somewhere in your cars, hidden but easily available. Keep gas in your car, and throw a backpack in the trunk in case you have to walk. Keep some tennis shoes in your trunk too! Matches, a little knife to cut with. Head home, whether in car or on foot, keep in constant communication with your wife through radio, if someone has working car go help the other out and pick them up. Do somewhat the same with kids. Maybe they are farther away have them prepare just in case, have them get a partner someone to travel with. Two is beter than one. Make friends with the people in between your home and work, maybe it’s just a diner, or gas station, stop by once in a while, let your face be recognizable, speak with some local people and make friends. Maybe even get to knoe the local cop or sheriff, sometimes they can impart information when they didn’t even intend to. You can get all of the stuff(maerials) I wrote about at wally world on the cheap. It will suffice to keep you alive for a couple of days. I learned this in real time in my old days smuggling in illegals. Some of us will survive, most of us won’t because we decided to lay down and listen to people that didn’t want to live to begin with. God be with you when the SHTF!

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      • RICH99 says:

        good luck trying to get there IF the shit hit !!!!!

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        • Government Guy says:

          I believe you are underestimating societies response to a trigger event. It is said we are nine meals away from anarchy because of normalcy bias. History shows most stand around like cattle until they run out of food. Leave immediately and you will be able to travel uninterrupted.

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          • RichW says:

            Plus, you get first pick of any scavengable goods along the way, before the looters come out.

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          • laura m. says:

            One bad event is if diesel fuel gets around $7. a gal. then the trucks will quit running; stores will run low of food; meats and produce first. People will panic like in a hurricane situation, running to stores. We’ve always had some preps because of weather disasters near the gulf. On bugging out: a concrete or brick small house is ideal, but some I know refuse to bug out from cities, saying they must “guard” their house/stuff if looting occurs. Most neighbors are uninvolved./keep to themselves/many retirees in my area and I don’t tell them what I’m doing (play dumb).

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          • VRF says:

            being able to read the signs early is definitely an advantage, that and having the mind set to follow your gut feeling and not to second guess it

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          • 64 ECHO MIKE says:

            RichW – Even though I somewhat agree with you this site is obviously not the place for humor.(lol)

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        • Odd Questioner says:

          Rich actually has a small point (actually two), and one you will need to consider (hell, a busted clock is right twice a day, after all)…

          * A remote bug-out location requires that you get out of Dodge before everyone else. Relying on normalcy bias to keep the roads clear is like relying on a parked state trooper to not pull you over for doing 9 mph over the limit: you’re betting on the moods and whims of someone else. I personally would not want to risk my butt on the moods and whims of a population at large.

          * A remote bug-out location requires that you get there first. Yes, I know all about locks, bunkers, camouflage, watchful neighbors, and all that jazz. However, if you’re way late getting out, you may arrive to find your place occupied by folks who are now armed (with your guns/ammo), eating your supplies, and in no mood to leave. It’s not a complete deal-breaker, but it does require that you have to keep such possibilities in your planning.

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        • 64 ECHO MIKE says:

          Before cars people walked everywhere they went if they did not have horses. Armys marched across nations. Start at the top and work your way down. Assess and compare priorities to goals. A rural acre of land can be had for not that much if you shop around and are patient but you have to be ready if the right on comes along. Offroad may be the best/only way to get there.
          Start with:

          Cars

          Older 4wheel drive

          On/Off road motorcycles. Many sizes available. You don’t have to get race bikes nor do you want them

          Bicycles with pull behind carriers

          Horses. Not very practicle but something to think about

          Walk. I will walk out of here if I have to

          Do whatever it takes. What if you HAD to!!!

          I promise you if you lived where I do you’d crawl through the swamps to get the fuck out of here if need be. I’d rather take my chances against the gators than the… uh… locals.

          Keep a clear head and stay focused and stop getting upset over everything you read. Take the information useful to you and discard the rest.

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        • Mark says:

          I think we are very vulnerable in America as there are only 3 (I think?) big power grids that cover the whole nation. Even if only one goes out for a week or so we are all screwed. The banks and stores will be closed and soon the looting will start. It’s best to prepare now if you haven’t done so already. We stocked up on food a few months ago and got a lot of freeze dried food at http://www.srmarketplace.com. No need for refrigeration ever and a 25 year shelf life. You can buy some things at the regular grocery store now such as rice and beans etc but what are you going to do about protein? Where are you going to get meat and eggs if you have to hunker down in the city? Get at least some FD ground beef, chicken and scrambled eggs from srmaketplace.com…. Your meals will improve dramatically and your body will thank you for it.

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      • Daisy says:

        Burrrp – That’s a great FIRST step, but the SECOND thing you should do is figure out how to get there when the roads are clogged.

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        • Facebook Page says:

          Thank You for pointing that out. I have been foaming at the mouth to say something like that.

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          • durango kidd says:

            I have said it before. I will say it again. Be there if you want to get there. If you are not THERE when the SHTF, you will likely not get there.

            Having said that, I do understand that there will be signs for the aware and the alert to leave their current location in advance. Heed your inner voice and don’t look back.

            Remember Lot’s wife.

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    2. I’ve always thought that on the eve of our inevitable
      monetary/financial/economic collapse, TPTB would, to
      try and escape justifiable blame for having caused it,
      unleash an ‘event’ then that all would later say had
      been what caused that collapse. War, big oil crisis,
      pandemic, nuke terrorism, something/anything, which
      would leave TPTB still in power, and not rightfully
      strung up from lamp posts, to next offer up their planned
      Draconian Solutions, after all had suffered long & hard
      enough that they’d eagerly embrace them then. That’ll
      then be the end of our last remaining scant freedoms &
      wealth, is their plan.

      - Shane

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      • Odd Questioner says:

        When it hits, blame is something that I’ll leave to future historians.

        Why? Because I strongly suspect that the powers-that-be will find to their shock that they cannot control their own dragon once it decides to get unruly.

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    3. Ranch says:

      Good article and one that begs the question, what country may be safer? I should think a country with people known for decency and respect. Japan for example but I won’t be moving there in SHTF. Sweden is a definite possibility for my family. What do you think of Sweden in SHTF scenario?

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      • Morning Ranch

        I agree, excellent article but I have the feeling that ultimately, one way or another, nowhere is safe. A major economic collapse will reverberate around the planet affecting every country one way or the other. Radiation will spread around the world, EMP will affect a huge proportion of the planet and even a major localised event, depending on where it happens can affect the food supply chain etc if it happened in the ‘wrong’ place.

        I am not saying I wouldn’t move if I had the chance, I would but my head tells me I would only be delaying the inevitable.

        Added to that would be prepping in a land where I possibly do not speak the language, where I know few people and I have no first hand experience of the geography. This would in my case be too many unknowns that may leave me in a worst position than I was in before.

        I wish you luck with your search Ranch. All the best to you.

        Take care

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        • I should have said I would move…within the UK.

          Take care

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        • Ranch says:

          Hi Burt. Thanks. You make a lot of sense. I know the geography well where I’m at, and I have a nice piece of property. I’ve also got preps. It’s the people I don’t trust AT ALL. An old man who went through the depression told me that people were decent back then and they got through it, but today with all of the immigrants and general attitude that nobody even knows their neighbor, if we ever have an economic collapse it will be beyond horrible. That was in the 1990s he told me. He probably knew it would come…

          Well when i drive just a few miles I see really rough characters and if store shelves are empty these hungry people will come to my house within days and my family will be toast.

          I have long pondered where are there decent people–where I can build up preps and not be so concerned about people in my own community. Well I have been thinking long and hard about Sweden and have an avenue to get a residency permit there. I just wonder if it’s worth it. On another note, I am very interested in leaving this country even if there were no collapse on the horizon.

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          • DoubleTap says:

            But if you move to Sweden then you’ll be the immigrant and people will dislike you just as much as you dislike the immigrants here.

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          • Ranch says:

            At DoubleTap: I am Swedish by heritage so… maybe not. I don’t speak a word of the language but they are good at English, and one of my kids speaks basic Swedish. There are fewer immigrants in Sweden I believe.

            Where I live now it’s pretty dark. Give some an EBT, and a way to find a job, and a decent police system, keeps things in check. Empty store shelves and/or no EBT — dude we are TOAST. Only an extremely good marksman with a fortified setup would be able to hold ground for awhile.

            I am surprised this issue is not mentioned more on SHTF Plan. Look around at the people in your community and ask yourself what these people will be like under SHTF. I think Scandinavia is a good choice for bug out but few can imagine it, or consider it.

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          • JustSayNo says:

            I’d think twice or more about Sweden. Don’t believe the propaganda. Sweden is a nation of clovers, dependent on the state for everything. They wouldn’t raise a hand to help a neighbor if their life depended on it. If you have something they want, they’ll nick it the minute your back is turned and chuckle when you ask for it back.

            We had a farm in Sweden in the midst of a small community. After buying it we found out that the nearest neighbor had secretly coupled himself to our electrical line. Another neighbor helped himself to 6 cords of our wood when we were away one week. Not a one said ‘hello’ unless they wanted something from us. Folks that had lived in the area for 30 years had never been invited to their next door neighbors for a cup of coffee. Etc, etc.

            My wife is Swedish and I, unfortunately, lived there off and on for the better part of a decade. Not a nice place. Not nice people. IMHO.

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          • Wolfbay says:

            Also stay away from southern Sweden especially Malmo.The many Muslim immigrants there are not integrating well into society and there’s a lot of violence. Still it’s a beautiful country .

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          • Paranoid says:

            Stay away from Wyo; we have lions, and, tigers and Bears, plus wild Indions, and plague, the Yellowstone Volcano is going to go at any moment, the girls are ugly, the whiskeys bad, the taxes are terrable, liberals everywhere. snow is 8 feet deep even in july, don’t come here.

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          • fiftyfiver says:

            Get out while you still can Ranch. There are some great places in rural Europe… they survived not only the last Great Depression but the fall of the Roman Empire. Anywhere where you can be surrounded by farming communities is looking good. People of the land will carry on pretty much as usual in the coming collapse IMHO.

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          • Odd Questioner says:

            “On another note, I am very interested in leaving this country even if there were no collapse on the horizon.”

            And go…where? Unless you move to Mongolia, or the Russian Kamchatka or Siberia (and I mean literally, not figuratively) and learn to survive the harsh climates there, you’re going to be stuck with a lot of hungry people who will all need fed, on local/regional ecosystems that cannot possibly support them all.

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          • Anonymous says:

            We have some Norwegian and Swedish friends. (We previously lived in Europe for a while.) Sweden is having a problem with a growing Muslim population. For many years they have had lenient immigration laws that Muslim groups took advantage of. Plus the immigrants liked the free housing, food, health care, etc.

            The Muslims have large families with many children as compared to the native Scandanavians. If these birth rates contineu, it is predicted that in less than 25 or 30 years, the natives will be a minority in their own country.

            The Muslims for the most part do not want to learn or participate in the Swedish culture. Sweden has seen a huge increase with Muslim male violent crimes (such as rape) against young Swedish women. Gun laws are so strict that a majority of the population doesn’t have a gun.

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          • Indiana Jones says:

            Ranch,

            There are places in the U.S.A. where the people will still give you the shirt off of there back even in the worst of situations. I found a small town church about 4years ago that we now attend regularly. The people are great. Alot of farmers and resourceful people. I’ve talked to many of the farmers there about the state of our country and if TSHTF many of them plan on helping out our small community. I think in that situation these farmers would have plenty of men willing to work a hard day on the farm for a chance to feed their family. If you’re lucky enough to live in or near an area with some good solid folks then the best way through will be working together. Everyone can contribute something as long as they have the right attitude. Attitude is key.

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      • I hate to say this but having traveled to Japan on business numerous times, unless you’re Japanese you might want to consider living somewhere else. Besides, the Fukushima nuclear plant has irradiated so much of Japan, I have serious doubts about the soil quality, food and water supply. Whenever I travel there I always bring my own freeze dried food, fruit, water, and respirator masks…just in case. I think a place with nice warm tropical beaches would be more agreeable. Cheers.

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      • Odd Questioner says:

        Burt nailed most of it. I would only add that there’s the whole getting-there portion of it that may be sticky.

        Most nations nowadays worth bugging-out to have adopted immigration standards that make the US look positively kind. Most of them require that you have a job waiting for you there or that you be financially ‘sufficient’ (for instance, I think Canada requires a minimum of $300k that you are to deposit in a bank there if you don’t have a job offer in hand). Immigration laws can range from a relative pain-in-the-ass, all the way down to “effing insane”. Nations that are easy to move to? Well, there are reasons for that… and those reasons all too often make such places not worth bugging-out to.

        Second up is something Burt touched on, but needs a little expanding: You ain’t part of the culture, and are an outsider. Unless you marry a local and fully integrate yourself (to the exclusion of your home country), you’re going to be the first one discriminated against, the first one blamed, and the first one to suffer at the hands of a panicked community. Yes, even in Sweden. Humans under stress tend to look after ‘their own’ first, which means people they know, that they grew up with, and who share their cultural and social mores.

        To be honest, you’re going to find a lot of that second bit even if you never leave the US, but instead move to another region or setting (urban/suburban/rural).

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      • JustMe says:

        Tuck your tail, and run away from the country that gave all the freedom you had, and probably take for granted, all the opportunity for an education, a job. if we survive, don’t come back. Oh, btw, Sweden already borders on communist collectivism.

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        • Wolfbay says:

          Sweden has problems but is far from communist. Their corporations are major exporters and capitalism is strong there. Yes taxes are to high but are being lowered and welfare is being cut back. The government has a budget surplus. The biggest problem is the large number of Muslim immigrants who are not integrating into society.This is there biggest problem IMHO.

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        • Ranch says:

          JustMe I have personal reasons for leaving. I am only a few generations removed from Scandinavian roots and feel a need to return. I do not like being ruled over by likkud AIPAC, let’s face facts on who is running America now. Turn on the news today and every third word is Israel. It’s disgusting. All of our politicians have SOLD OUT and the average sheep has no idea.

          My teenage sons will not be drafted to fight the lobby of israel’s next BS war with Iran. I’ve resigned to leave, and let the chest pumping God Bless Merikka crowd keep watching football while the national debt is run up.

          I can’t fund it any longer in good conscience. I have a thriving business with well-paid employees, and my company pays heaps of money each month in taxes, which I remit to uncle sam every cent because it’s legally due and I am an honorable person. I just feel the highest honor to myself and my ancestors is to leave. I am very good with languages and bilingual now. If I move to Sweden I spend 1 year intensively studying the language and I’ll go from there.

          I can easily relocate my company to Sweden, but I can relocate to many places. There are other countries on my radar but I keep coming back to Sweden. Mainly because of the decency of the people to not act crazed in SHTF. If it weren’t for SHTF on the horizon I’d probably resettle somewhere in an equatorial climate. Maybe someday…

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      • Telly Savales says:

        Go to the Congo, you’ll fit right in !

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      • durango kidd says:

        Ranch: Anyone considering a relocation, whether in state, in country, or to another country, should consider the prophecies of Edgar Cayce, who was really the first person in America to identify “safe” areas: more than seventy years ago.

        Check SHTF Earth Changes and see whether his predictions resonant with you. “The greater portion of Japan will go into the sea.” If you are thinking about Japan ….

        forget about it.

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    4. Poor Boy says:

      I will have to be bugging in as I don’t have the funds for a secondary location. Nice thing though is I’m already remote and all of my neighbors are pretty self sufficient by nature. Also it helps that a good half of them are members to my better half’s family. All avid hunters and none of them really take to well to being told what to do. On a slightly more humerous note my next door neighbor the other day made the comment that “Our forefathers would be shooting by now”

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    5. Sixpack says:

      THEM: Do you have any sugar?
      ME: I was just going to ask you the same thing.

      THEM: Can I borrow a bottle of water?
      ME: I was just going to ask you the same thing.

      THEM: Do you live by yourself?
      ME: I was just going to ask you the same thing.

      THEM: May I come in and use your phone?
      sshk-sshk (pump action sound from behind the door)
      ME: No.

      Everything we were taught about politeness and courtesy will no longer apply. I find it easier to deal with the loud, aggressive ones, than the seemingly friendly, helpful ones who offer to “help me out”. What they usually meant was — “help me out of my stuff”…

      I’d suggest putting your wedding ring in your pocket and not keeping more than $5 in your wallet (in ones only). I say this because I’ve been cased before. ANY little thing can get you marked for later. I prefer a pump action shotgun for one reason — it makes a very distinctive sound, recognized almost universally as the “final word”.

      The best confrontation is the one you never had.

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      • Freight85 says:

        Oh yeah, now that’s a good post.

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      • VicD says:

        That sums it up. I was 12 years old working at my mom’s antique store when a man came in and paid $600 cash for an item. Not more than 5 minutes later, two men came in and “wandered” around the shop, but something didn’t feel right. My dad was in the back room and all he did was make the pump action sound with his shotgun. The two men realized that they had entered the wrong store and found the exit rather quickly. That was 25 years ago and I remember it like it was yesterday.

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    6. I am really trying to consider bug out options. Right now I have no idea but we do have two families to team up with when things go down.

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      • don't tread says:

        I think “buggin in” anywhere within miles of a major city (pop. 50k to 100k * ) would be very risky without having several people on board that were trustworthy. Two or more families under the same roof or at least next door could prove to be a lifesaver if all are well armed and stocked.

        Reading some of the stories via the link here- http://www.wnd.com/2012/09/black-mob-violence-and-the-media-silence/ …………………………………
        …would make me think twice about deciding to “bug in”, anywhere in the big city suburbs, much less the downtown/uptown areas.

        I would take my chances living in the woods in a tent within walking distance of fresh water. I might get lucky and find others that are on the same page.

        If I were unsure, and had nobody to discuss options with, I would try hooking up with someone in my area that was connected to the Preppers Network. Here is the link- http://www.americanpreppersnetwork.net/

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        • I actually live in a smaller military town. But Nashville is only 40 miles southeast of us. I am really looking, my dad has a friend that lives close in a rural area so that may be an option. One family it military and the other has skills we don’t. Most of my neighbors are old and wealthy, so I don’t see much help there.

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      • John W. says:

        Get it through your heads people. You are not going anywhere, the roads will be blocked and there will be no gas. If you are not within ten or twenty miles of where you are going and in a small town you are there for awhile. At least until the Army comes and hauls you off to the Soylent Green factory(FEMA camp).

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    7. DoubleTap says:

      Talking about Martial Law, it doesn’t take a major crisis for the dogs of the state to get worked up. Look at these freaks in action violating innocent peoples rights. These freaks would kill Americans in a second.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uQFXF_3tz0U

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      • Joe says:

        Wow…what an outrage! A very good example of things to come in the not so far off future unfortunately. Thanks for sharing that one double tap.

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        • Joe says:

          Not that I know of…doesn’t surprise me though. What state and county?

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        • Gregory8 says:

          Joe and Double Tap: Did you hear the latest? The defense attorney has filed a motion to supress the evidence because he says the stop was so unspecific that it was nothing more than a hugh, random traffic stop. a clear violation of his cleints rights and those of all the other people stopped. The judge is considereing the motion as a violation of the accussed’s 4th amnendment rights since the cops had no description of the perp or his vehicle. If approved, the case has to be tossed because the evidence found in the vehicle will be inadmissable in a trial. But even if it doesn’t fly, the town is going to have 40 lawsuits for the 2 hour detention of all the other drivers and their passengers that were traumatized. This is one time I’m rooting for the trial lawyers. These cops need a big bitch slap for that one.

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      • SmokinOkie says:

        Thanks for the link Double Tap. If this doesn’t convince people where they stand in the eyes of the PTB and the thugs they employ, nothing will.

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      • falloutboy says:

        you think the founding father would have3 put up with that

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      • ARIZONA says:

        D T your right about the police gang,IF one person had resisted they would have killed every child in the crowd,then they would have started shooting the adults next,ANYONE who thinks these terrorist scum work for this country are stupider then a box of rocks,most of the police in trinidad,co are from foreign countries,and are military soldiers,DRESSED like cops(THERE NOT AMERICANS) FOREIGN MILITARY,GET IT?????????????

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      • JustMe says:

        Please review The Grey State movie trailer. What you saw in that vid is just one step away…

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      • John W. says:

        I love the way the punk cops point their guns at little kids. you just know these assholes are looking for a reason to shoot someone knowing they will never be held accountable. The cops are a bigger danger by far than all but the most violent criminals.

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    8. Jeff says:

      Trying to build up stores… so darned expensive. Have you priced medical supplies lately, or water barrels or grain mills? Try to get my wife on board with this and she always says, “as many people in our family who hunt and fish, we’ll all just head up to hunting camp”, which is on state land 2 hours away, without dealing roadblocks and national guard patrols. Other problem is most of the family she speaks of live 30 miles away across a state line. If TSHTF we aren’t going to be able to get to them or vice-versa.

      The National Guard has been deputized by the local sherrif and is being used for law enforcement in our county. Whole swat teams in digital camo and military trucks. Is this happening anywhere else?

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      • JRS says:

        Jeff…That’s some interesting info on the National Guard.What is the reason for this? What area of the country do you live in? I don’t like hearing about things like this when there isn’t even an emergency.I know the domestic rules for the military have been changed but this seems pretty blatant.

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      • Jeff, it’s not going to get any cheaper. Helicopter Ben Bernanke is now printing $1.33 Billion dollars A DAY buying Toxic Mortgage Backed Assets to keep the Too Big To Fail Banks in business. We’ve already seen the quantity of the supermarket merchandise decrease over the past few years. Next the actual packages will be shrinking, and fast, as inflation sets in. Just like Japan.

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      • copperhead says:

        I don’t think the county sheriff can deputize N.G., but I could be wrong.

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      • ARIZONA says:

        JEFF-the foreign military are everywhere in the mountains of america and when the word is given they will start shooting, trust me on that,OBAMA has planned this down to the last details,I hear reports of RUSSIAN MILITARY encounters from hunters and hikers all the time around here where I live,and still no one cares,they don’t believe this is going to be a problem………remember you were warned about the RUSSIANS IN THE WOODS…………..OH,these guys in the woods are russian snipers,and I hear they always have their snipper rifles with them………..

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        • Gregory8 says:

          Arizona: Unless you have photos; it’s just more rumors and propaganda. In this electonic age where cellphone cameras can take a pictuure and send it instantly to everyone in its network with the date, time, local weather, and gps coordinates, it’s someone screwing with you and others. Sorry, but I have to call BULLSHIT on this one!

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          • Standing by in AZ says:

            What area in AZ? Hell I would be willing to check it out myself. Or at the very least put out the word. All my friends are hunting all over this state. It is time to start scouting areas out now for the upcoming fall hunt. If people are going to put this type of info out, at least back it up with some sort of credible evidence to back it up.

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          • in border states, its probably just illegals in surplus uniforms trying out new ways of slipping in drugs and women. “hehehe we’ll scare them gringos into thinking TSHTF now! theyll just go bug out instead of question us!”

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      • Soros says:

        STFU !

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      • don't tread says:

        @ Jeff

        I wouldn’t count on hunting game and fishing for survival. In the area I live in ( the NC mtns.); we have been hit hard with something strange concerning our fish and deer.

        In the past few weeks, the deer have been dropping like flies. In many areas of the county there have been as many as 50 to 100 deer found dead along streams in a two or three mile stretch. The Dept. of Game & Wildlife are trying to cover-up the numbers.
        In the past few months, the fish have had strange parasitic growths, even the small mouth bass in fresh rivers and streams.
        Something else that is strange, we had daily helicopter runs out of our local airport, near our house, for three or four months up till about the first of August. Now we see or hear “nothing”.
        I don’t no why the deer die off is limited to only about five counties. Things aren’t adding up and something stinks, other than just a deer carcass.

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    9. 95lb german k9 says:

      im doing the sailboat gig,, I think its the best way 2 go

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    10. padre says:

      I understand the use of generalization but I really do think articles like this one do preppers a disservice! The fact of the matter is that the CORRECT answer to that perennial bugout/in question depends solely on your particular situation.

      Worst case scenario: what will be the food and water situation? How about sewage? Without the grid how will people stay warm? What are some of the effects that a long term grid out might have? On hospitals and medical research facilities, on chemical plants, on local nuclear reactors? What about on local population centers? Questions like these and only questions like these will get YOU the correct answer in your personal situation. Maybe money needs to be taken into consideration, but not before the question: am I guaranteed death if I stay? And lets not buy into any egalitarian BS, money does not garantee survival, but it does help.

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    11. eppe says:

      Glad I bought mine five years ago. But as troubles escalate, could the “value” in such a great BOL location double or triple or more? I would sell it in a heartbeat for the 300% profit, but I would be kicking myself in the butt if it was the wrong decision.

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      • copperhead says:

        eppe: Forget about profit, THINK ABOUT LIFE.

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      • BlueH20 says:

        Research capital gains. There is no exemption on unimproved land, tillable and wooded. Around here, the increase in just 10 years is closer to 1000%, but you pay out 1/3 in cap gains today. It goes higher if the present administration is re-elected.

        Improve it, add utilities and a livable home that is a primary residence and in the near future you will get a $250k cap gain exemption if they are re-elected. Hopefully, the $500k exemption will stay in force or be reinstated if R&R win.

        Is it ag land or recreational? That will influence your taxes. Size of the property is also a tax/cap gains consideration.

        Also, if you sell it, what are your plans going forward?
        There is more to consider than just a quick *profit*.

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      • ARIZONA says:

        EPPE-do you really believe money will be of any value when the SHTF????trust me, AMMO will be the new cash in america,food will be second in line,things you can trade with,fuel,oil,candles and so forth,GOLD,SILVER(WORTHLESS)hahaha,would you trade YOUR food or ammo for useless metal……………..I DON’T THINK SO………buy everything you need now and get ready ,the POLICE GANG and the MILITARY will be coming for your supplies…..BELIEVE IT……….

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    12. VRF says:

      Im staying
      and no one is going to move me
      No One!

      all my shit is here, you have a much better chance of survival if you stay where all your saved survival stuff is.

      Bug out is a last resort for me at least, if all my preps are depleated and there is’nt anything around to gain support from..
      I know my area , I know my water sources, my food sources, and my protection right where im at.

      now if i have run everything down, and my area is uninhabitable, than Im out of here..way way out of here

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      • Guido says:

        I prefer having two big piles of shit in different places. Plus a couple little piles scattered around.

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      • copperhead says:

        VFR: I’m with you on staying put. We know the area like the back of our hand. If you live in a rual framing area with open fields you have a clear view 360 around and a wide open kill zone. Very few on here talk about having night vision, IT IS A MUST, NO MATTER WHERE YOU LIVE. Gets some today if you do not have any. You can set up defenses around your place that will slow them down to a crawl, make them work to get to you (just don’t let them get close to you). Weapons- practice,and practice, again not many say you should practice with your weak side do so, get used to it. IT is your choice to stay or go YOU MUST LIVE WITH THAT CHOICE. No body in their right mind wants TSTHTF, but it is here and to many are not prepared for it. Many will pass away with in 30 days of the start, who knows if any of us will make it at all. As for the Military and LE fighting for the CORP. your guess is as good as mine, but I feel most will not.
        REMEMBER TO TRUST IN GOD, LIVE FREE AND STAND TALL!

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        • falloutboy says:

          be amazed what a couple of bear traps will do to slow someone down coming on your property learn how to make boobie traps

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        • Sixpack says:

          While I can’t afford real night vision gear, I bought a sony handycam with “night shot” and 990X zoom— I can read a business card on a pole across the road with it…at midnight. I can also see other IR beams.

          It don’t have to be tactical, to be practical…

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      • MadMarkie says:

        We have a 200′+ deep lake 40′ behind our home. The water will need to be filtered and either boiled, bleached or filtered through a ceramic filter. But there is water available.

        Living in South Florida, there are only two ways North out of the state; IH-95 on the East side of the state and IH-75 on the West side. These are going to immediately become parking lots.

        I think that we’ll take our chances here.

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    13. wncmountainboy says:

      With the new NBC show “Revolution” lots of people around here are talking about a “lights out” scenario. After reading this Holly Deyo article the one thing I didn’t think about is if the grid goes down the cooling systems of all reactors would be gone.
      I feel like alot of the time the coming paradigm shift is romanticized by some preppers. Let’s pray that the Sun burps away from us. Many of us will survive man-made events or local/regional natural disasters. Hundreds of reactors melting down will eventually kill all life on Earth via radiation poisoning.

      We’re staying put in our crackerbox subdivision…if it gets too bad all the camping equipment, firearms, etc. goes in the Cherokee and off to the deep woods we go.

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    14. Rodster says:

      Sorry but I take issue with renting and paying 1-2 years upfront. There are way too many landlords who are on the verge of collapse themselves. Why pay that pay that money with the uncertainty they can go bankrupt and you lose all your money.

      I was evicted back in 2008 because the landlord got walloped during the Fall Collapse of in ’08.

      A better option would be to buy a small RV where you can go at a moments notice and park it in a desolate area. Think gypsy. :)

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      • laura m. says:

        Rodster: Good advice, a small rv is the way to go. One man suggested renting a self storage locker and fixing it up to live in, but storage unit owners could go under too. The small rv idea is most practical for city folks.

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      • Big Perm says:

        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click to read it.

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        • Rodster says:

          The owners went belly up in 2008 during the collapse and they sold the building to a Catholic Church. So all the tenents were given 30 days notice.

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        • Anonymous says:

          freind just had this happen she was renting a house and the landlord went into forcolsure nothing she can do. she got her 39 days to get out period. Anther freind was renting while her house was being built, (they are both in seperate states, one in IL one in NC) she recieved her 30 days becuse he landlord went into forclosure also. Thank God her house was done in time. NO laws to protect the tenent in that situation it seems. The owner has the burden to pay the mortgage and if they do not the tenamt gets the boot..plain and simple/

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        • John W. says:

          When the bank forecloses you leave. They also get to keep whatever you cannot get out in the time it takes to change the locks. This has happened to bunches of people in Vegas where a house in forclosure is being rented out. The tenant takes it in the shorts.

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      • Nunjobizness says:

        RV’s are good, but a trailer is better. You can camouflage it and leave it parked somewhere hidden while you take the truck to hunt or get supplies.

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    15. king krazy says:

      I moved out of the “holler” about 6 months ago and moved into a big shotty neighborhood. I was always a blue collar working scum. These professional suppossedly smart people are dumber than whale shit! There was a block party and they were oblivious to a coming disasters I was preaching. One lady though has literaly jumped on board with both feet and gone crazy with prepping. Another neighber has the light and now is stocking up on weapons. The rest of them are on their own and I have no fear of them if it crashes because none of them have a warrior spirit. They will make good cannon fodder though ;)

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      • ARIZONA says:

        KING KRAZY-just remember those pussy ass fagots will gadly point you out to the POLICE GANG AND MILITARY,to score browny points and food,be VERY CAREFUL with them…………

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        • king krazy says:

          right you are Arizona but I am old and I don’t much care if I live or die anymore so I hope the cops/military feel like taking me in is a hill they want to die on.

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    16. possee says:

      There’s no place like home

      possee

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      • No there’s not. I can’t honestly say where me and the family wil end up given circumstances. Things happen in a way sometimes that can rock you back on your heels. My current plan is to bug in here at the house. My wife and I have traveled many routes in different directions looking for possible choke points. I have a two bridges over a large body of water to the west and south, as well as a bridge to the north. My back is to the ocean. I would have to leave well before things get shut down and guarded by a new authority. I have pretty much decided that where I’m at is where I’ll stay until I’m done. I’ll do my best to pare their numbers down before my ticket gets punched. In the mean time I live, love, laugh and prepare.

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    17. Barn Cat says:

      You can guard a house from the inside with only 2 people. You just need one awake at all times who keeps a gun handy. I can sit in a spot in my house where I can watch both doors.

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      • VRF says:

        2 awake people and dogs..works for me, not to mention silent perimeter alarms

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      • not likely says:

        So, when both doors are breached at the same time with you in the middle how long will you last? What about bedroom windows? Basement windows? Smoke/fire? Concussion grenades?

        If you think in terms of protecting yourself from a burglar or two, you seriously underestimate the potential enemies you will be facing.

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        • copperhead says:

          Not Likely: Fortify your place. Easy to reinforce your doors and when they come knocking two rounds through it, will more that likely stop the threat. Place wire over your windows and lock them down extra. Fire is your main concern, not much to do against it. Think it out and use common sense, you can work things out for more protection.

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      • Sixpack says:

        I plan on watching one side, while the handycam monitors the other so I can see it too.

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    18. jasoncookies says:

      I would prefer to bug-in.

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    19. blackriflewarrior says:

      I have a BOL but I have decided to bug-in. I have worked too hard to put together my castle and I will stand and defend it. Running is running no matter what spin you put on it. We all have to die and I would rather die on my feet than run and hide in the cracks like a rodent. I was with my father when he died last year and what I saw scared me to death. I saw a man who worked out and was very active and healthy and tough, turn into a little old man who couldn’t control his bladder or bowels. I saw in his face that he was mortified. I will not go the same way. No one lives forever. Who will stand and take it like a man? Thats my plan. I have to stand before God one day. I don’t intend to stand before Him as a coward.

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    20. RICH99 says:

      How about this scenario….as soon as this currency dies they are ready to roll out their new one and we start all over again and never miss a beat !
      This is quite a possibility seeing as these scumbags are very calm in the face of a supposed cataclysmic crisis

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      • JRS says:

        You know what Rich, you could very well be right.After all, in 1971, when Nixon told all the other countries they weren’t getting any more of the gold owed them no wars broke out. They didn’t do shit. I guess now when they no longer get any more “full faith and credit” for their FRN paper they probably won’t do anything either.

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        • phdinlogic says:

          I disagree. With the Middle East situation, i.e. Iran, Syria, Libya, Egypt, etc., fiat currency destruction, mortgage meltdown, cities in decay, etc., etc., this is a way different situation than 1971. Too much points to a total SHTF situation. Moreover, with all that I read about Agenda 21, NSA in Utah, Bilderberg, CFR, and Obama, this is evil at work.

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        • John W. says:

          The US was still the worlds largest creditor nation at that time. My how things have changed. I look back at that time with fondness. Thirty one cents a gallon for 100 plus octane gas at Sunoco and Amoco.

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      • Freight85 says:

        The next monetary system… will be a “Mark of the Beast” monetary system.

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      • don't tread says:

        They are in denial of what is really going on. The “elites” and the “elite wannabe supporters” have been taken over by the spirit of their Master. It is a calming spirit to them because they think they are in control and invincible. As they get closer to the time when their Master returns and “runs the show” (only for a short while) they get more worked up.

        Then the true Master returns and its time for all the “evil workers” to get their dues. I hope I’m gone by then but some will still be here to witness the destruction of those that have destroyed our peace and freedom.

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    21. slingshot says:

      I think we have too much crap to worry about and for the sake of argument, some is better than none. If you are an avid reader here you know that you can never cover all the bases. There are Pro’s and Con’s to staying put or bugging out. You have to decide which is more advantageous to your survival. Hate to tell you all but it is all a crap shoot. Just how good you can adapt to any event that comes your way. How much effort is there in maintaining a primary site and then a bugout site. Security for both locations and then there is the problem of going from site A to site B. The only way this works is that you have seen the signs well before hand and made the move to site B. Don’t get caught in between sites, Then you can stay at home and take the chance that no mob or government agency comes knocking at your door. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
      The only one you can depend on is yourself.

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    22. SmokinOkie says:

      My bug out location is so far out, even the bugs don’t know where it is.

      We made a practice run to the bol a few weeks ago. And we learned some valuable lessons. As it turns out, a two-wheel drive pick-up CAN’T climb mountains after all. Run-flat tires don’t actually run too far when they’re flat. And a half-ton will hold a lot more than half a ton, but danged if it aint hard on your back to load and unload it.
      A few other things we found out once we (finally) got there:
      Two tomato cans and a long string aren’t nearly as effective for cross-camp communication as real walkie talkies.
      Wet fire wood will eventually ignite if you spray enough lighter fluid on it. And so will your eyebrows!
      Canned beans are very nutritious, but you sort of need a can opener to get them out. (I knew we were forgetting something)
      A small hatchet works fine for opening cans, and it’ll also open your finger joint at the second knuckle (ouch)!
      Jack Daniels works just as well as peroxide for cleaning wounds, but evidently, Dr. Daniels didn’t give a hoot about causing pain to the patient.
      If you orally administer some of the aforementioned wound cleaner before pouring it on the wound, the pain is still there, but you don’t care anymore.
      One last thing I learned. If you overdose on the orally administered wound cleaner, you may wake up before sunrise, only to discover you’ve been sleeping on an ant hill. That’s okay, too. As long as you have more wound cleaner left to administer.

      Next time, I’m definitely gonna remember the can opener and the walkie talkies. But, just to be on the safe side, I’m also bringing twice as much wound cleaner too!

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      • ARIZONA says:

        smokinokie-JACK DANIELS,a bottle of that will be worth more then a pound of gold,and thats if you could find someone dumb enought to trade,WHISKY,AMMO,WATER the new money of america………….

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      • RICH99 says:

        Hopefully your not at work or in a store shopping if such a scenario happens because then you can kiss your BOL goodbye forever …..just use the movie war of the worlds with Tom cruise when he tried to get out of dodge and I realize its a movie but its quite realistic in that sense

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      • Sixpack says:

        I’ve opened cans with a screwdriver and a rock before. I learned fast and never get out of bed without my leatherman…

        My Dad showed me how to fix a nail hole in a tire with a screwdriver, some rubber cement and a lost piece of tire tread found along side the road.

        I fixed a thrown rotor cap button with a pull-tab and a screw from the back seat.

        Panty-hose twisted with speaker wire WILL temporarily work as a fan belt to get you home(but your ass will stick to the vinyl seat…)

        In an emergency, you can fix a pin-hole in a brake line with a piece of pvc hose and a correctly placed worm clamp…without killing yourself.

        I guess that’s my gift from God (and Dad)—creativity and resourcefulness under pressure.

        My Dad would be so proud (RIP)

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    23. BlueH20 says:

      Agree, Slingshot.

      I have considered all available options, including going to sea and have decided to bug in. Just more secure, but that’s just me.

      Besides, that’s life: nobody gets out alive.

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    24. Doing my best says:

      I plan on staying put in a small private community in the Sierra foothills 30 minute drive to a large city. I have been preparing for 1 year and think I am where I need to be even though no one around here has a clue what is going on. I have some family that lives close that would join us in the event something happens for more protection. If things get really bad I would load up a 22′ motor home and 4×4 pickup then head for the high country 30 minutes away. If this does not work all I can say is that I have tried my best and hope for the best. All you can hope is that you have done what you can, but never give up your will to survive and protect you family. Also one more note don’t let this overwhelm, stress and depress you be strong and make some sound dicisions and try to think this through. Good luck to all and do what you can!

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      • Pretty Good Ed says:

        if you have a 22 foot motor home it should already be loaded and ready to go

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      • Anonymous says:

        I think we may live in the same place – Cali right? Sonds like you are about 30 minutes from Sacramento, like me. It’s been my observation that up in the hills are some good folk. My neighbors are awesome..I’m blessed.

        I really enjoy reading everyone’s posts. Good stuff. I wanted to add that if you have a well and you don’t have a hand pump attached to it, you might want to consider having a solar panel (or panels, as the case may be) attached to your well pump so in the event of a grid shut down, you still have water. In many places the well is a good distance from the house, and while hand pumping would work, it isn’t the most optimal situation.

        Also, for those who have land. Consider leasing out your land to a beekeeper who will pay you in honey.

        Good luck to all and God bless each and every one of you in the coming months.

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    25. Rancher says:

      If you have your eyes wide open… then go to the place to meet and search is..

      preppergroups.com

      This site was developed around the need to network and meet others to work with for a common survival goals.

      Be warned as with any site it has arm chair posters and folks who want something but do little in return. Just cruise the pages and lean who has it together and contact them.

      If you are truly serious and financially able to join a good group it will probably require you to relocate. Why? Because good groups first organize around well researched safer locations. That usually means moving from the high risk, dead end and high risk place you are in now. Lousy groups organize around lousy locations and hope it will work…. they will become victims.

      Places like North Idaho are good …. and a hand full of other spots. Good luck but unless you are deadly serious do not delude yourself on this subject. Just return to your normalcy bias and go back to sleep….

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    26. VRF says:

      one of the bad situations that can arrise is..your at work WTSHTF,, and you have to get home or to your BOL..and here’s the kicker.. can you do it..ON FOOT!?

      can you do it?
      do you have the gear? ( i have a BOB always in my vehicle)
      are you in good enough shape to do it?
      do you know how to get there on foot, and not be in the open?
      can you carry the supplies to do this?
      how many days, hours or weeks will it take you?

      get this figured out, and see if its even a viable option for you before it comes to fruition

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    27. I’m in the process of relocating from a commutable distance from NYC to I don’t know where yet. One thing I’m keeping in mind is to be in a region that can produce its own food. Preps will eventually run out and then what unless it’s being grown nearby.

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    28. We will only bug out if it becomes absolutely necessary. Way too much put into preps in the home. Our thought is tht we have a greater chance by staying in place rather than heading out on what will be very dangerous roads.

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    29. Southpaw says:

      Good article. I’d grade myself a C for preps. We could only make it about 6-9 months. That said, I have a primary and secondary bug out location with plans to get there without a vehicle if necessary (EMP, CME, etc.). The fact is, it will be very tough to get my family to either location without a vehicle, but I wanted to think worst case scenario. If we happen to be able to drive to either location, I consider that a bonus.

      I do want to ask, what % of preps should be kept at home vs. stored at a BOL? Especially considering the possibility of not being able to haul much with you if you are walking?

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    30. slingshot says:

      Well, I am a long time prepper and I would like to have the money I have spent on material that just didn’t meet the standard of performance. Major Brand names included. The good part is that I know what works and what doesn’t. There are items you can get by on and others you can not short change. I am so hard on things that with a hammer, an anvil is not safe from my destruction.
      Material things I do not have a problem with. It is people. In a stable enviornment people will say anything. Place them under duress and it’s another story.
      You have to listen and pay attention as to what they say.
      Thier ability to eat various foods. How they have handled thier ordeals in life. How well they hanle pain or discomfort like bugs,cold, heat and dirt. Do they conform to your way of thinking. Are they followers or leaders? I do not want conflict in a life or death decision. Then you decide if you can take on thier shortcomings. So whether you bug in or out, make your choices wisely.

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    31. schlomo says:

      Keep in mind that if a solar flare or EMP knocks out all power, the nuclear reactors will melt down after their generators are out of fuel, about a week, or if the generators simply are knocked out too. Look up reactors within hundreds of miles of you and plot them on a map so you know which areas to avoid, and keep in mind prevailing wind directions. It’s very hard to find maps online with the nuke sites plotted out. Very important if you are in the northeast.

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    32. braveheart says:

      BRW, I’m with you on bugging in, only because my economic and credit situation don’t allow me to do anything else. Rodster, I understand you feelings about renting, but not everyone has the option of buying property even in a good economy. BRW, sorry to hear about your father. I lost my mother to breast cancer and chemotherapy right after Obama’s inauguration. i saw what chemo did to her, a woman who used toe in the best of health and could do almost anything. i went to see my dad in the ozarks over the weekend and tried once again to get him on board with prepping, but still to no avail. I tried several times before and after Y2K to get property in the Ozarks only to have all my mortgage applications rejected. So, bugging-in is the only option i have. I’m pretty well stocked now; did somemore shopping over the weekend and still doing so right up until the last minute. Next weekend, 29th and 30th, will be a gunshow in my city. Got to go get some ammo and see what other goodies I can get. Take care and keep prepping.

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    33. Be informed says:

      In my opinion the major objective of anyone that wants to survive MUST get out of major metropolitian areas for two real good reasons. First huge urban areas are huge targets when something does happen, for both total martial law and for enemies. These dense like matchsticks piled on top of one another are death traps for disease when either a plague develops or just simply from lack of proper sanitation. Water is a massive issue here. The higher the population density the more competetion for the few resources left with be brutal. Enough said about this.

      Next, getting out will be a nightmare to get to a bug out location. Leaving a small town type region is relatively easy as the roads will likely be open to leave. In almost all, if not all, roads leading out of the urban areas will be blocked off by the military and?or by roaming gangs looking to hi-jack ANY and ALL cars of what they have, including innocent women for rape. Chaos brings the absolute worse in many individuals frustrated by their own failures, and there will be countless individuals taking advantage of the lack of any law enforcement. Anyone that is not in an armoured vechicle is absolutely at risk being on the open road against individuals that can riddle a car or truck behind some type of barrier. These “checkpoints” will be all over the place leading out of a major urban area.

      It is really distance to with being “stuck” in a major city. A person might have to go 100 miles to be safe or longer. If the vechicles are not working for whatever reason, travelling even 25 miles by foot might be impossible or extremely dangerous. The less distance someone has to travel the more chance they have to survive.

      Almost everyone in this country and others has the choice of living outside a densely packed city. Many people will say that their employment bounds them to the 10000 people per square mile living conditions. If this true and when SHTF the chance of survival will be reduced massively and the shear misery of trying to survive will be hell. The question arises to anyone that choices to live in a densely packed area, “is it worth it?”

      Each person makes a choice in this life, but they have to realize that those choices have dire consequences. Living in a major urban area if they truly believe that SHTF will happen, has to be given a lot of consideration about “getting out of Dodge” before they can’t.

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    34. Daisy says:

      We recently made our move to our “bug out” location and we are about 3 hours from any large hub of population. Our new town has less than 1000 people and we are 10 miles outside of that town.

      The most important thing I’ve learned since doing this is that I don’t know crap!!!! I always thought I was pretty competent and well-prepared – nope! There is a long list of things I thought I could do with no issue that have turned out to be way harder than expected. For example, you don’t just light a fire, have it stay lit, and stay warm – who knew? Manually getting water out of a well is not that easy either ’cause that concrete lid is a heavy mofo, even with a lever. Hauling water from a lake is a *bleep*. Stacking and splitting firewood is HARD WORK! Handwashing clothes in an extended power outage is likewise way harder work than you might expect.

      Practice now while you have a grocery store and electric power for back-up – it may be too late to learn these skills when those conveniences are gone.

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      • slingshot says:

        @ Daisy.
        ROFLMAO. But I’m laughing with you. Do all that when it’s hot as hell and a bunch of yellow flies are biting the hell out of you. How fast things you want to do go by the wayside and the things you have to do, you have to buck up and do them. Mother nature has ways of tormenting us humans when we leave our nice protected domiciles.

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        • Daisy says:

          Slingshot – here we have black flies and they are likewise evil – they’re still out though not as bad as other times of year, thank goodness!

          And yep, I just do it because if we want to stay warm, watered and fed there isn’t an “opt out” clause here. :)

          All my friends and family think I have completely lost my mind – they roll their eyes at my “eccentricity” – but I bet they’ll be hoping for an invite when TSHTF!

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          • slingshot says:

            I had my share of fireant bites,Tiger mosquitos, scorpion stings and spider bites and living in a state that has bugs up the ying yang. City people have no idea what awaits them in the wild. Still LMAO.

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          • Daisy says:

            There was a spider that was almost as big as my cat in our cabin the other day! I dumped bleach on it and beat the heck out of it with my shoe.

            And it’s a myth that spiders can’t hear – you shoulda seen that sucker jump when I screamed.

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      • VRF says:

        You do remember that I told you wood heat is a lot of work..right?

        but if done in the fall, and winter..it heats you twice, once while working your butt off, the second as you sit infront of the fire.

        I dont even like messing with wood until its at least 50 outside, or less, and at 50 im working in a T shirt and jeans, when stacking it

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        • Daisy says:

          You were totally right VRF. :) I bought enough already split for this winter and I’m plugging away for next winter. I am glad that I made this choice though – we had a lengthy power outage this weekend and we were all snug and fed – it was hardly a blip on the radar.

          Maybe you can answer a question for me – is there a way to make your fire last through the night or do you have to keep getting up to feed it more wood? I think I’m doing something wrong – I can only get a fire to last for about 4-5 hours.

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          • Anonymous says:

            Daisy
            What we do is keep some logs that we do not split my husband calls them nitetime logs we put one of these on the fire then close up the stove it keeps the house warm most of the night, on real cold nights I will get up and add a little more wood towards the morning. So the house stays warm at night and the water on the stove is hot for morning.I heat most of my hot water on the stove in the winter. saves on propane.

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          • Daisy
            At night we put on a large log we save some when we split our wood then close the stove up tight will last most of the night. When it is real cold I will get up towards morning and add a little more wood this warms it back up and makes sure the water on the stove it hot for morning. I heat most of my hot water on the stove in the winter saves on propane.

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          • JRS says:

            Daisy…Do you have a damper in your flue pipe? Hopefully you have an airtight stove and not one of those cast iron “Franklin” stoves. They will eat your wood up fast.Keep it up and you girls will have “guns” to rival the menfolk. lol

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          • Daisy says:

            JRS – yes, it’s an airtight stove. And we’re already getting some noticeable muscles after just a few weeks of this. :D Good for the soul and good for the body!

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          • Zoltanne says:

            Daisy, Put the damper down some and stack your stove tightly. We use large cuts of oak during the night because the wood is hard and burns slowly. For us, using oak gives us heat through the night.

            Some of the deciduous trees are faster burning than others. I don’t know your area but ask neighbors, your landlord, or someone who understands woodstoves. (Also try and avoid resinous woods because they’ll gunk up the works and without a catalytic converter to burn it off efficiently, it can cause creosote build-up and flue fires.)

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          • VRF says:

            Every bit of advice you got from everyone is right on the money, one thing i can add is this
            a heat sink
            having a large mass of masonry to heat up is a nice radiator of heat once its warmed up.
            Not all homes in thier constuction provide this, but if you can add it or already have it, it really helps.

            one draw back to a heat sink, if its not kept warm, it also becomes very cold, and also radiates the cold temperature.

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          • Sixpack says:

            @Daisy,

            “And it’s a myth that spiders can’t hear – you shoulda seen that sucker jump when I screamed.”

            ROFLMAO to tears! Seriously, I’ve had severe arachnophobia all my life, but I recently realized it may be my undoing in a SHTF BO situation. What if I had to evade the bad guys?

            Imagine having to flee in order to save your own life—and the ONLY place you can go is dark and “not vacant”, like in a crawl space under the house, or a dirt hole under some tree roots somewhere…could you do that? I couldn’t, no way.

            My fear of spiders would’ve kept me out in the open before, but not now. You see, because of my fear of them, I’ve studied spiders, actually seeked them out just to watch them up close. I started out by getting one on a stick and watching it climb towards my hand. I got smaller and smaller sticks until I almost had one on my hand once. I’ve played with their webs (I hate that feeling) and herded them around for awhile, instead of just killing them. They can run pretty fast too!

            The point is, I wasn’t gonna put myself in a position to get caught or killed or whatever, just because of my fear of a small critter that was as afraid of me as I was of it. I still don’t like them and refuse to live with them in my house, but now, I can quietly shove them out of the way and hide in their house, if I ever need to, without a moments pause.

            PS: I suggest wearing a ball cap, so they don’t get caught in your hair…LOL!

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          • don't tread says:

            Daisy, I am still seeing you with the bleach and shoe. Hey, at least you did something. My better half would just leave the house, even in a pouring rain or snowstorm. She is so scared of little pests, she won’t even tackle a cockroach.

            On keeping your woodstove going thru the night; you have heard much good advice. Here is my two cents. First, you have to have a big enough firebox that can hold a lot of hot coals and ashes. Wimpy little freestanding fireplace stoves won’t work, and the smaller types sometimes referred to as a “Baby Bear” is about too small.

            Growing up, there were two terms that I heard often on freezing cold nights; banking up the woodheater and nightstick. Getting and keeping a good fire thru the night without tending to it two or three times, depended upon, setting the damper just right, “banking”, which means having the bottom full of hot coals and then gently moving some ashes over top of them while arranging the “nightsticks” so they would slowly burn without “smothering out” or “catching up” and burning up fast. It is a learned procedure , only thru much practice, and none of it will work if you don’t have the correct “nightsticks”. WTF is a nightstick?

            In my neck of the woods, we have two kinds of preferred nightstick wood. Cured/Dried/Seasoned out Locust and Hickory. The next choice is Oak, any variety. It must be dried out mostly, and needs to be pretty big/heavy chunks. I do use lighter pieces and some half green poplar on top of the nightsticks sometimes.

            After banking(don’t cover the hot coals too much or you can smother them out), the coals/ashes,over the whole bottom, I like to use a couple of short pieces of about 4 to 6 inch thick green wood, one at the front and one at the back, directly on the banked coals. I then put a couple of fairly big “nightsticks” on these, laying them longways, front to back, leaving a little air space between the ash covered coals and nightsticks. If its really cold and windy, I’ll put two or three smaller pieces of greener/wetter wood on top of these. Usually it works like a champ, but sometimes, for whatever reason, I find myself having to stir the coals underneath just a little when I “usually” wake up to go pee after a few hours.

            When everything works like it’s supposed too, the house will stay toasty all night and when you get up to start coffee, the woodstove will be filled with glowing embers and ready for a few chunks of seasoned wood again.

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        • Anonymous says:

          Thats what we do get our wood in the fall and winter so busy in the summer and have a little more time in the winter.I hate getting wood in the summer just way to hot.

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      • Anonymous says:

        Daisy
        A lot of people do not realize how much work it takes to live that way. We heat our house with wood only and in the winter, I do a lot of cooking on the wood stove. Line dry all my clothes ( I do have what I need to wash by hand just haven’t got that far yet ) and make all I can from scratch. I figure the more we live this way and get use to it then when shtf we will be able to adjust a lot easier then most.

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      • A lot of people do not realize how much work it takes to live that way. We heat our house with wood only and in the winter, I do a lot of cooking on the wood stove. Line dry all my clothes ( I do have what I need to wash by hand just haven’t got that far yet ) and make all I can from scratch. I figure the more we live this way and get use to it then when shtf we will be able to adjust a lot easier then most.

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        • Daisy says:

          RW – the washing by hand was not on purpose – yuck – it sucks! But we have had an issue with our well, which is being re-drilled next week and there simply is not enough to run the washing machine and still have water for everything else. :) I’m with you on the rest of it – better do it now for an easier adjustment later!

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        • Sorry I have three post that posted twice didn’t realize the first ones went through.My kids tell me I am technology challenged I think they are right lol

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    35. jayjay says:

      The Bishop is asking democrats to leave the party..’come out’ of the democrat party!!!

      Same sex marriage condonement and taking God out of the DEM Convention pissed them off.

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    36. jayjay says:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_FrySY8oYM
      E. W. Jackson Exodus Now!!

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    37. steve says:

      How about a real scenerio: I live in VA in a 4 bedroom neighborhood house on 1/2 acre in a town of 7,000; 10 miles from a town of 30,000; 55 miles from Washington DC. I have moderately prepped (stored food, garden/fruit trees, roof water cistern, meds, guns) – am OK financially – but in no way have the money, time to relocate, and time to find others to relocate with me. So what advice do you have for people like me that will stay at home and live in a neighborhood? Most of us need to make our current situation the best it can be.

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      • Daisy says:

        Steve –

        I recently read a really great book about this topic:

        “Surviving the Apocalypse in the Suburbs” – by Wendy Brown

        It’s a little light on the home defense aspect but had great info on sustainability.

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      • durango kidd says:

        Check with the Preppers Network, look for your state, find like minded people, or start your own group.

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    38. Tommy boy says:

      I can see it all now, it is so clear to me that it is blinding. I am going to need all the stuff that is advertised in order to survive, but what if this happens…. I go to my bug out location and right before I enter it, a big bomb drops right on top of it, everything gone. I then get in my well stocked car and try to find a different location, but… my car stopped working because there was apparently an emp. I then start to walk to wherever I can cause my backpack is full of preps and then suddenly, I see a huge mushroom could on the horizon and my hair starts falling out. Not to worry, I still saved my water filtration system and I have enough granola stuffed in my socks to keep me well nourished for at least a couple of hours. Now what? I know, I found my pocket bible stuffed in my pocket of course and I got on my knees and started to pray. At this point in time, I was tired, shell shocked and at a loss of what to do next. I think I would have probably just lay down and asked the dear Lord to take me. But… wait a minute, I just thought of something else, I had a stash of gold and silver hidden under a rock not far away, I found it and managed to get to the nearest town so I could barter and get what I needed to survive. However when I got there, everyone was dead and all the food was contaminated and then I thought to my self, this is not the way it is supposed to go down, the preppers were supposed to be the smart ones and the only survivors. I guess things never seem to go quite as well as we think. I got out my bible again and this time I saw the light and realized what a jerk I have been.

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      • jayjay says:

        For when all is done, regardless if we last a minute or a year, it is still Him that we will stand before at the end.
        Oh, and we win; I read the ending of ‘The BOOK’.

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    39. Unreconstructed Southron says:

      Just buy Joel Skousen’s book and pick the very worst place in the book. All the preppers will be buggin’ out of that place and by the time you get there everyone else will be dead. You’ll have the place to yourself.

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    40. Zoltanne says:

      I disagree with some aspects of the rental property possibilities, especially when paying up-front because there is no legal guarantee from a buyer who might default on the property’s mortgage. But renting to learn a new area can be very beneficial without the huge financial commitment. If the choice is staying put in an urban setting or renting rural property, getting out into a rural setting would be far a better solution when the S hits.

      We’re in a rural setting and planning to bug in but are currently shopping for property that could serve as a ‘back up’. We’re also looking for property as an investment to get out of the USD so the $ can be used before it’s too late. We are looking for remote property — land where there really is no ‘beaten path’. There would be no need to buy with the idea of a resale in 5-10 years, it would be land deeded over to the kids, figuring an inheritance of land beats worthless fiat paper money. I wonder if others have done or are doing this??

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      • Daisy says:

        I rent, Zoltanne, because I just don’t have the money to buy. But I made real sure when choosing my rental that the landlord was in a situation where MY place would not be more desirable than HIS place.

        One concern, as a renter, is that the owner could come and boot you out post-shtf if he felt that he’d be better off there. I live in a teeny little place on the same property and try to help out as much as I can – I want them to feel that having us here is a benefit instead of a detriment.

        The other benefit to this is we have a little help acclimating to the lifestyle here – he and his wife have been happy to show us how things work, like the wood heat, the well, and the septic system.

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        • Zoltanne says:

          Daisy, from what you’ve shared, it sounds like you made a good decision to get out. I laughed when you wrote of the ‘hardships’ that you’re facing now because they’re really just kinks at this point but they’re frustrating. And as you realize, knowing that YOU know it’s better to face them now than when TSHTF gives you even more motivation to learn new skills now. Having your landlord helps you and it helps him, too, because when you understand how those manual systems work, you can troubleshoot issues if needed.

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      • Chandra says:

        Been in my bol for six years living the simple life. Cutting my wood with a bow saw. five cords a year.Have told my teen that if SHTF doesn’t happen andshe tries to sell this land after I die I will haunt her. This is my and my late husbands legacy to provide for our descendents forever.

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    41. braveheart says:

      BI, as always you make some excellent points. If I bugout, where could I go? As i posted earlier, I saw the writing on the wall even before Y2K and tried to get some Property in the Ozarks way before we got to the state we’re in today. But, thanks to the banks rejecting my loan applications, it just was never intended to be. Any advice on this question would be welcomed.

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      • Be informed says:

        @ braveheart. I truly believe that everyone needs to be at least 3 days walking distance away from ANY major metro area. This is about what an average person can walk at 2 miles per hour, slower walk, for 8 hours, or 16 miles a day or 48 miles. So 50 miles away from any city over 250,000 would be a good idea. This can be a town or small city. I would not be in any city above 100,000. Small towns are usually pretty nice as the people there often do much to help each other.

        Each of us lives here in the United States and almost all of us can move anywhere. No one should feel confined to an area for any reason. Big cities really don’t offer much to anyone interested in survival. Like a tinder mass piled on top of itself, it goes up like a chimney when something happens. Disease spreads faster vertically than most people can imagine.

        My advice is to get at least 50 miles away minimum from any large area. Total isolation is nice, but many small towns will survive after SHTF. Now about getting a loan. Tell the bank what they want to hear. This means that you can set up some sort of money making operation. The bank will likely have a list of lucrative business opportunities that they feel will make money. If someone is willing to go into business what a bank finds will make it a good risk, then the loan process becomes more likely. Your local bank and loan officials should have that idea of what they feel will make money.

        If all else fails, many people can load as much as they can into a trailer and head for the wilderness. I have always thought that if you can back a trailer into a cave somewhere, this would offer a wonderful shelter against many problems associated with a total collapse of the world. The temperature of caves are year round normally the average temperature of the outside. Many times caves have a good supply of water. One of the issues of outdoor survival facing many people will be the outside elements and staying warm or cool enough. Caves when you can back a 5th wheel or something into it offers this shelter.

        I would consider many different parts of the country also, all depending on what type of climate you and your family can best adapt to. Hoep this helps with some ideas.

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    42. Flarp says:

      I love this Armageddon porn just as much as the next lunatic, but there are more options than simply getting a bag of anti-SHTF gear and belly crawling through the woods to a tick-infested cabin. WWII was a SHTF event wasn’t it? What did THEY do on the domestic front? They started victory gardens, and I’ll bet they knew how to grow and preserve food. They created neighborhood watches, especially on the coasts. People organized. In other words, society survives as a society, not as scattered hermits crapping in the mountains.

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      • Merree says:

        Since Europeans, especially those from Eastern Europe,were the ones experiencing the brunt of TSHF in WWII, I wonder how they dealt with it. I wonder how much they noticed ahead of time.How did they deal with tanks rolling through, homes commadeered, bombs dropping, etc. I wish I knew more of the experiences of regular citizens.

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      • Sixpack says:

        yeah, but they didn’t have to worry about their own government herding them all like sheep into camps, or their own police shooting them, or being annihilated by some superbug made in a lab in the middle of cattle country, either…THEY KNEW WHERE THEIR ENEMIES WERE — we’re still not sure about who all is with us, or against us. They didn’t have a such thing as “enemy combatants” or “domestic terrorists” either…WE DO.

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    43. TheGuy says:

      Sigh… why prepare for the solar flare?

      It would be an extinction level event.

      Don’t believe me?

      140 nuclear power plants with NO COOLING PUMPS.

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    44. TheGuy says:

      How can I “bug in”?

      I’m in Los Angeles. You can imagine what this place will look like 12 hours after any of the above listed scenarios.

      Dante’s 9th level of hell comes to mind.

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    45. Ashtoncole says:

      My mom was in the floods in Santa Clara UT a couple of weeks ago. She said when the emergency warning came ppl came running to their cars amazingly most with bug out bags on their backs including the dogs. She was shocked when ppl ran to assist her husband since she had surgery just a couple of days prior. Once to safety men all got together. And went bk for others who needed help. N. Yes there will be bad ppl but never under estimate what can happen when good ppl band together. Keep prepping& prepare but good still exists.in the world

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    46. RICH99 says:

      The more I think about this the more I say that the only shit that will hit is when people don’t accept the new system when they roll it out and the militarization is there to enforce it .

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    47. GatorNavy says:

      I’m very angry inside and this is “MY HONEST OPINION” on people with bug out location plans. This will definitely step hard on some toes so STAND THE F@CK BY! I have NO problem with someone saying that they’re going to a “bug out location” to regroup or to plan an offensive against an enemy and commit to a fight afterwards or to put their family in a safe location first. I do however have a real f@cking problem with anyone that says they’re going to bug out, hide, live off their preps until the shit blows over like it’s a bad storm that’s just going to pass by. Bad news for the coward… you’re not going to be able to stay under the radar! To the one’s that think this especially healthy young men ..I believe you’ve watched way too much TV or stupid movies like Red Dawn ect. I have more respect for an enemy troop coming at me fighting plus I could never trust that type of individual. I can understand being in a “bol” if you have a health problem or you’re a female but a healthy man that could make a difference should be fighting when this happens. Besides I’d rather take the fight to them and fight against them in a group than take the chance and have them find me, no matter how much preps I have, and them having an overwhelming advantage. I’ve stated on here in the past that I’m NOT bugging out to nowhere. Myself & others that I know have already committed ourselves to a fight immediately… if or when it comes. There’s more of us that are going to do this than you think. I know that some of the Americans that will be caught off guard and have no plans but have the ability to fight will grab a rifle and do so because of no other recourse. I personally know some people, some veterans some were not, that are just usually prepared with weapons and ammo that do not believe that things will get that bad and I have asked them what they would do if by chance shtf. They stated they would pick up the rifle and fight. They may be lying or I don’t know. But when you talk about running off and hiding at a BOL and there’s forethought of your own safety and just protecting what you have without regard to others here in America then the word cowardice enters into my mind. Were all Americans, and “WE” not some, will have to put an effort into defeating what is coming. Damn straight.. I want to be part of that. I’m no HERO but I’m damn sure not a pussy and I will give my life for the reasons I have but I intend on taking as many I possibly can with me! What kind of country would we have if all men during the Revolutionary War would’ve just ran West and hid themselves waiting for some miracle that the Brits would just go away and let them alone? I know some Christians that think God’s going to handle it also…did he stop the Brits during that war? NO! I think God helps those who try to help themselves. Anyhow I see crap on youtube like this constantly and they talk about “bugging out” but never, ever talk about picking up a rifle and joining in on the fight to REGAIN OUR COUNTRY’S FREEDOM. They talk about picking up a rifle to protect that small bug out area they have. Some of these individuals are on there just making money off the fear that some people thrive off of nowadays. Check them out sometime you will see what I mean. I see a lot of so called “preppers” saying this also and I’m sorry but that pisses me right off. The fact is, the closer we get to that day instead of being scared and running… people should be getting very pissed off and ANGRY about what they’ve done to this great country of ours and thinking about an offensive and fighting back way more than just prepping and bugging out to some location. The few I know can’t be the only son of bitches that are pissed off at those who did this to our country and want to head straight at them, locked n loaded in a hell of hurry like a mad dog with rabies! You give an enemy time to build up it’s resources and it will be much worse later. I don’t want to hear replies on this forum about foul language either by do-gooders because I don’t give a rats ass and have no other way of describing how angry I am at this point from hearing more and more unconstitutional shit every day from our government. If you’re not angry as hell by now I doubt if you’re truly an American and or worried about your children and grand children’s futures!

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      • RICH99 says:

        Just the sound of clapping…….I tip my hat….hell no I take my hat off !!!

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      • General Apathy says:

        That is nice. But I have already offered up my life repeatedly for my nation. And from my eyes, this nation, its entire population has betrayed all that I was willing to fight for. For me, nothing but my family maters now, I have done enough and all I will worry about is my family. Don’t get me wrong, I feel just as you, but my duty is now only to my children.

        These old men and women on this site are not whom I would fight for or die to protect, they have all turned their backs on what this nation is in exchange for comfort and wealth, just go up to the people with bug out locations and how they would ‘defend’ it. The fact they can even afford such means they have far more than the majority of young families, but they are old and do not need it. And when any mention of ‘helping’ those whom they know not comes up they make Ebeneezer seem a saint, and yet they blame all on some black man never seeing the monster in the mirror. How could I bother to defend such?

        If I had no family, I would consider you a coward as well. For with no higher duty, it is far past the time to rise and fight. You have already failed your professed calling. Police kill unarmed citizens at will, our rights are nothing but privileges at all turns, our politico’s mock us at every turn, our capitalist system blames us for the problems it caused and our population agrees and applauds such. The time to fight was years past. You wait to fight only when you have no choice, you fight an pointless and hopeless fight unto which you die for no reason, and you do it on their terms. That is the mark of a coward, a man fights before the danger comes close. I no longer see in this nation something to fight for, but the same rag heads always questioned about why they would never DO something to fix their life.

        I can not trust this nation to care for my family, since it has more than made it apparent that they are the freeloaders. Since a defenseless child and woman are nothing but expendable slime to be ridiculed and mocked for not being born rich and connected or being connected to some chump stupid enough to care for a nation which turns its back on him. Fight for this nation? For what? You have betrayed all I have held dear.

        You have nice words. But to many years of listening to this nation berate and dismantle what truly makes us special beyond all others has hardened my heart to any idea of protecting it.

        Hopefully you are right, hopefully there is some spark to ignite and reclaim what we hope is ours. But I see nothing but a few people whom will rise, and find they are alone, alienated, blamed and disposed of as easily as any worthless city-dweller whom dares fight back against a cops oppression now. Because you do not fight for the ones whom are being targeted and hurt now, you will find yourself friendless when it is your turn.

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        • GatorNavy says:

          @ General Apathy…..I didn’t add what I’m about to inform you in my previous post because it’s NOT CALLED FOR in my opinion for people to know but since it’s relative to what I’m going to say now I will say it. I too served this country honorably. I don’t quite know if you’re saying you’re a veteran or what but you should’ve said so as it would’ve made it little easier for me to understand maybe what you mean or what you’re going through. I guess I have to accept that you offered your life up several times for the country which is really admirable and I personally thank you for that and am grateful. I will leave it at that. But just know this…you’re not the only one who has been f@cked by the Us Government after serving. I am a disabled veteran and I had multiple injuries and conditions of my spine and legs and I also have other wounds that I care not to discuss. It’s taken me 25 years plus a lot of hell at the VA Hospitals, I have learned to deal with my situation. There’s some bad shit called Self-Pity that will lead you down a dark f@cking road which I refused to travel and you might want to remember that because while I was reading your comment as confusing as it was, some of it seemed to have some of that same tone or maybe I could’ve read it wrong. I know now I was truly blessed and seriously glad I had that hard nosed, bastard Korean War vet of a father. I didn’t appreciate it at all what he was trying to show me by getting in my face if it even remotely seemed to him like I was losing control again or pitying my sorry ass excuse for a Sailor as I went through my hardships. I had went through 3 spinal surgeries,pain, years of therapy,pain and I healed up and got up on my feet like a man and moved the hell on just as my old man ordered me to. I hope you read that part and remember it! Anyways it seems as though you didn’t read my full comment and maybe you got your toes stepped on I don’t know. I apologize for my inability to fully understand your whole comment as it drifts from your anger at the people in the US to other and I understand your anger. I am angry also to which it sometimes seems there will be no end to it. It is getting late now and mostly the things I could get from your reply were somewhat what i had mentioned in my comment. I believe maybe the only reason you made the comment was to say I was a coward for not fighting right now as you say here: “You wait to fight only when you have no choice, you fight an pointless and hopeless fight unto which you die for no reason, and you do it on their terms. That is the mark of a coward, a man fights before the danger comes close” Well I can say you are correct about being a man and handling things before they get close. That does hold some truth which is comparable to that in my original comment! If I am a coward, very angry and wants to help contribute to correcting this coming problem by giving all I have left and I feel it’s not pointless,hopeless or dying for no reason then what will we call all those others that plan on bugging out for good if that’s your opinion of me? Hey I wish you luck and maybe some day you might be able to look back on my comment and realize and understand what I meant. I don’t post here very often but when I do I’m sure as hell some people hate it just I think you did. I find it difficult to not say what’s on my mind because that’s the way I was raised. Hold Steady, Hold True until the end.

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          • General Apathy says:

            I am sorry for the confusion. I normally never post anywhere and when I get a bit of drink in me I tend to ramble when I do. Problem is, online is the only place I ever feel the freedom to actually say what it is I am thinking, so it tends to come spilling out in a jumble. I dare not say such words to those I know in real life, I have learned the hard way people are not to be trusted.

            Yes, if you want to know, I am a vet. I try not to let it out much, I am young enough that my peers still assume it is a great adventure and I am willing to expose my stories for entertainment. And honestly, I cringe every time I hear people say thank you for serving, I get why, many old timers are trying to make up for the past or ensure a new generation doesn’t feel the pain they did coming home. But even that didn’t stop me from feeling the worst shame I have ever felt when I came back on leave and in the airport waiting to make another connection; an old couple insisted on buying me lunch and thanking me profusely. But I was almost to tears in shame, knowing they mean well, but they had NO idea what I was doing just days before, what I considered normal, how alien things felt coming back.

            The anger, frustration and almost palatable hatred I learned to feel for our media over there. Knowing how our population eats up its lies and crap. Because of how we worship what a talking head says, I had to make a decision which to this day forces me to admit I am a coward. I decided to choose caring for my children and being there for them over doing what I know what right, what I would have done for a dog in the same position, but if I had, all this nation would have heard would have sent me to prison for doing the only thing any human SHOULD do. It does burn me, and I am sorry for my disjointed rambling.

            I wish I could afford to feel the way you do. I understand and I truly wish I could fight for what I swore to defend. I did not mean to imply you are a coward. I understand why people don’t, I know the valid reasons we should always try for peace as much as possible, such things as fighting a civil war are not to be done lightly. But I also see in my minds eye in another land different from the other; the shoes on the side of a road in a ditch, over grown with weeds and rotting in the air. Knowing as I patrolled past, out in that field where a people whom did not fight, whom went along with things until the very end. These people thought they could hide from what was coming, could avoid what was fated by not fighting overwhelming odds. This is the thing which wakes me at night. Not the combat I have seen. That impotent frustrated rage for not being able to defend those whom needed it is something I have no idea how to express to others whom have not felt it. I cannot grasp why if you cannot fight before you are without hope, why you would let yourself line the wall. To me, if you let others be lined up, you are no better than the ones whom do the deed. It is not fair, but at this point, it is ingrained, which is why I have such hate even for myself, if I had no family, I would fight now. But I know, it is obvious I would be alone, my desire to defend others turned around and ignored because this nation refuses to see itself for what it is.

            I from the bottom of my heart I wish this nation was what it professes to be. But I doubt you will find nearly enough like minded people. Good luck. Just look at my posts as the ramblings of a foolish man.

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      • FireHawk says:

        Thousands of thumbs up to you GatorNavy! I have been reading this site for quite a few years and really enjoy the knowledge and the dialog amongst the members. I have chosen in the past to keep a low profile for security reasons. I will stand with YOU and brother’s like you should the need arise. I will fight and die if that is what I am called to do. I have already determined in my mind and heart that I will engage the enemy and fight for freedom for those who are unable to fight. I am not hiding once the battle begins. To the arrogant, the selfish, and the cowards who would abandon the Republic and not help their fellow man, or shoot on-sight someone who steps on their little piece of turf. Let the words of Samuel Adams ring in your ears for all eternity

        If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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        • GatorNavy says:

          @ FireHawk….Thank You! I appreciate those words and each time I hear them it actually makes me feel even more hope that things will be corrected. I get a little more than upset when it seems Americans are just willing to give up on this country as it seems sometimes. I have long ago accepted the fact that my own government calls me and other veterans terrorists and how many Americans don’t even act like it’s strange. A few years ago I went to board a plane to fly to the east coast to see my newest grand daughter that was born. I was stopped at the ticket desk and FBI, TSA men came and asked me many strange questions before I finally asked what was wrong. I was then advised that I was on a Terrorist Watch List. My wife is always telling me to try not to get mad too much but it overwhelms me sometimes especially when they said that to me. I said a little too loud… that let me get this shit straight I am a disabled honorably discharged veteran of the United States Navy and I am considered a terrorist and on a watch list by my own government?! They started with the… yes I know how frustrated you must feel Sir and we must ask you to lower your voice. I stood there for a second then just asked them to give me my god damned boarding pass so I could leave. Three cops behind me, two cops to the left and the FBI,TSA in front of me. They were such nice folks that they even escorted me and my wife over to the security and screening area. My wife asked me what I had done to get on a list looking worried and nervous and I said I didn’t do one damn thing. Such an enlightening experience!

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          • FireHawk says:

            GatorNavy….Thank you for your service! I truly understand your anger and frustration. What happened to you and your wife is deplorable. If I may, anger is an enemy to rational thought. Mistakes are made when emotion enters the equation. Keep a cool head for your grand daughter’s future. America needs more men like you.

            Many people clearly see what is transpiring in this country and the tactics being used. The ptb are using division: rich vs. poor, old vs young, racial strife, and political party affiliation to divide us. Divide and conquer and then create order out of chaos.

            Keep a steady hand my friend…

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      • combatdorothy@gmail says:

        DEAR GATOR NAVY-

        THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR POST..I AM NOT VERY SMART OR VERY INFORMED, BUT I AM TRYING…YOURS IS THE FIRST POST I’VE SEEN THAT ADDRESSES TAKING UP ARMS AND SURVIVALISM AS A TACTIC FOR THE WHOLE, AS OPPOSED TO INDIVIDUAL SURVIVAL..I THINK YOUR VIEWS ARE THE MOST ELEVATED I HAVE HEARD IN THIS CROWD..THO I DO APPRECIATE ALL THE EFFORTS PEOPLE ARE MAKING TO SPREAD REAL USEABLE INFORMATION FOR INDIVIDUAL SURVIVAL, ACCORDING TO THEIR SINCERE BELEIFS..GATOR NAVY, PLEASE CONTINUE TO BROADCAST YOUR STANCE..SURE DO ‘PPRECIATE IT.

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      • Chandra says:

        Just WHO are you planning on going out and fighting? If the SHTF because of a natural disaster, where is this enemy you’re going to fight? Defending your place the enemy is clear…those w ho threaten your group. I dont want my menfolk off chasing some boogieman I want them nearby.

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    48. Joseph Jones says:

      I never listen to anything Holly or Stan Deyo say. During the pre-Y2K rush, they made all kinds of claims and predictions, every single one of them turned out to be dead wrong. During that time, they made a major killing, cashing in on all the fear and propaganda they helped promote. Since then, they’re still at it, shoveling all kinds of b.s. around.

      Experts at nothing at all except self-promotion, their ‘advice’ is virtually worthless. Anyone with common sense can see right through their crap. They’re credibility is virtually less then ZERO.

      Holly writes like a wanna-be ‘survivalist’ with little real situational awareness. You’d do better reading a fictional novel about the collapse from any number of authors.

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      • RICH99 says:

        When will people realize that DOOM is a market and nothing more ……why do you think these people keep telling you year after year that ITS COMING but it never does ?????? DOOM IS A MARKET

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        • Sixpack says:

          Maybe so, but I will choose which market I will invest in, and I now choose to invest in preparedness, because it’s a win-win situation, unlike some others…

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        • CoffeeVapor says:

          RICH99… Doom is here if ya dont have blinders on…
          The dollar is dieing fast the housing market is past collapse the FED is buying up all the morgtages it can as fast as it can (ie they will own your house).
          Doom is a market? Most people want others ready and prepped fopr whats coming because they realize it makes them safer when others are prepped also.

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    49. You can tell how worried people are by the number of people that post on this subject. Being retired and with limited income I am verry worried, but am trying to be prepaired in a wise way that will benefit my family. It is difficult because so many people don’t have an idea of what is coming and don’t seem to care, thinking that the goverment will take care of them. I pray God will give me the wisdom to do the right thing. Stick in there gang and may God bless you.

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    50. Bobby says:

      Hey guys, here is my situation

      I am going school in Alaska (my family is in Hong Kong). I don’t know anybody but 5 of my classmates, and a few professors. None of them know anything about SHTF scenario nor preppers. Among these people, only one (I know of) has family living at Anchorage.

      I plan on buying some dried-food (for emergency purpose) from SAM’s club. I may not use it now but I feel like I need some in future.

      So my questions are: what can I do with the classmates/ profs I know? Also, is it worthy to pile up dried-food?

      Thanks!

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      • CoffeeVapor says:

        In Alaska its always a good idea to have backup food and water and heat so your doing good ;-)
        Classmates talk to them about the economy and how much more expensive collage is gona be and how prepping for that now might be a good idea… the profs? Well most I know have an ego the size of the grand cannon and wouldnt ever listen even as they get frog marched into the gas chambers.

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      • Chandra says:

        Wow, Alaska must have changed in the last 20 years. I went to college in Fairbanks. Lots of my friends there talked about living in the woods and fighting a guerrila war if the Soviets came through. Though I understand that Anchorage is too civilized. see if you can transfer to Fairbanks or Juneau if you are in Anchorage now.

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    51. chris rhudy says:

      im just going to bug in and fortify as i dont have money to bug out if you can keep safe and fed for a year things should calm down by then. and im figuring on a financial disaster not some calamity like a solar flair or smthin

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    52. wisefool says:

      This is a great website and all, but preparedness is a pipedream. There might be small moments where it’s the average citizen we need to fight off, but ultimately it’s the foreign military that will be rolling through the neighborhoods during martial law that will either be killing on the spot, or rounding up for the camps. It’s not going to be like we see in movies where the whole system falls. It will all fall EXCEPT big gov, because it’s part of their plan of course.

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      • don't tread says:

        A wise man prepares for every imaginable scenario, not just a foreign or domestic revolution. A foreign military might have a leg up on most civilians, but there will be plenty of others willing to die for the cause. How many people will keep working, unless forced to, with foreign troops marching around everywhere? What use is a “big” government if they have no peoples left to provide for them?

        Hell, I just want enough food to keep from starving to death and enough ammo to protect it with. I may die from foreign troops invading, but they will know I was in the battle.

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    53. Cassandra says:

      Pre-emptive actions against known adversaries, in the event of a collapse, should be considered and planned before the collapse. You can eliminate a real threat before it attacks you. If you wait for the threat, it will come when it is best prepared and you are most vulnerable. Think like a survivor. Be a survivor.

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    54. tuco22 says:

      What is coming is unimaginable. Most will not be able to prepare against it.

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    55. FireHawk says:

      General Apathy…You have every right to feel and speak as you do. They are not the ramblings of a foolish man. For what it is worth, I think your decision to take care of your family and your family alone is the right one.

      A year ago my nephew was injured by an IED in Afghanistan which blew off his right leg and genitals. He now has an artificial leg and an artificial hip. He feels betrayed just as you do.

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    56. Sun Devils#1 says:

      I would strongly recommend buying and reading ALL of Strategic Relocation -3rd edition by Joel Skousen. It covers just about every aspect you need to know about SHTF, the individual/family, and builds a foundation of understanding that leads to a customized plan for an individual/family based on location. I had to comment because all this talk about moving over seas and shallow water wells in the desert is nonsense.

      There is so much misinformation and poor assumptions I read on these articles, it would be wise to actually educate yourself, for real, and then devise your workable plan for long term success. Understand that a move NOW, or a change in life style NOW is highly probable if you want to really be in a solid position BEFORE a SHTF scenario. No, I’m not related -I just bought the book and found it top notch. It would help the person who is saying they live paycheck to paycheck and explain any frustration voiced by people who say things are unrealistic based on their geography…which should tell that person they are not in a good place for a SHTF event (NY/NJ/FL/DC -for example).

      I can’t cover it all…but again, I’ve read so many bad assumptions, people reading this and who are serious need to buy it and get prepared accordingly.

      http://www.joelskousen.com/strategic.html

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    57. rt66paul says:

      Move your company to Sweden? Complain about high taxes here in the US? You can’t be serious…..

      Taxes in Sweden or any other industrialized nation will be higher than here. Certain taxes, like maybe sales tax or property tax may not be as much, but if you total up the tax burden of someone in your wage bracket, you will find that you pay much more taxes there than here.

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    58. Dr Geek says:

      Many great and helpful comments. I’m a doctor living in the center of a large urban center. Fortunately I’m a mile from home at the hospital where I work. I can run home in nine minutes (hey I’m 42 & just started running last year :-)). I have to admit the sobering truth. If caught here with my family when TSHTF, we’re likely boned. Hard.
      I started thinking about what would happen without advanced medical care (among other things) felt icewater run down my spine.
      Good news is we have good friends across the alley, one a critical care nurse & the other a twenty year army vet. Both very cool headed. My kid is smart, a calm thinker & my wife works for the state health dept in emergency preparedness. We have a lot of skill & intellectual resources but we’re at ground zero I’m afraid. I’m young enough in my career I can’t afford a BOL. I guess we’re buggin in for the present & trying to survive the hoards. :-0

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    59. Why so many abbreviations? Goodness i have to google every few lines to figure out what the heck your talking about, or spend minutes trying to guess. English please.

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    60. masterp says:

      Well, I have been hearing this talk from BTI (before the internet). Both grandfathers stockpiled food/gas/tires/clothing in bunkers starting back in 1925. When WW2 came around they were hauled in for hoarding but the records showed they had been stockpiling for decades and were let go. Did you know gold was illegal to own back then? So, they had hundreds of gold watch cases made with no guts, solid gold, problem legally solved. My community has 10,000 rounds (50 Ak, m16, and a 50 cal with rounds, food for 200 for a year) all in 2 trailers ready to roll and turn our subdivision into a survival community in 2 hours. It is smack dab in the middle of the urban area in SoCal. We have doctors, army (special forces/snipers, techs, cooks, the whole shebang). It would take a bigger more organized army to take us. We can survive fro 1 yr w/o a problem. Now that’s better than some remote location. Take your kids to a real karate school, teach them how to garden and can like I did. How to shoot a gun and a bow and arrow, fish, skin a rabbit. Also teach them how to play an instrument and have an unplugged life, oh and the most important- HOW TO PRAY because all this just extendeding you impermanent life before your real one begins when you die, and we are all going to die some day.

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    61. Section-4 says:

      The author has on his list to find a bug-out location preferably with good surfacing water … Good Lord!!! They’ve ALL been taken by now, The few that were even left. I suggest you ‘all just shell out a Benjamin Franklin for a rocket ship to Mars and when TSHTF … KYAGB cause we’re all gonna be dead within a human lifespan of 100 years anyways not to mention living in a survivalist nightmare our children’s children will hate us for creating for them by allowing these Federal Reserve lunatics run the entire world into the toilet.

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    62. Section-4 says:

      My suggestion to the author realistically is to give KISS advice on a nomadic hunter gatherer survivalist solution rather the ‘I can’t afford U’ approach cause Mr Reserve has everyone working at dead end debt slave go nowhere jobs which barely gives us enough money for shelter and food let alone buy bug-out supplies. Honestly, How many visitors to this site have simply left out of frustration? He is absolutely right, But only for those who can afford it.

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