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  • Clarocet for Kids

    Stock Market Too Big to Fail: “Fed Will Prop It Up Whatever the Cost”

    Charles Hugh Smith
    September 4th, 2015
    Of Two Minds
    Comments (154)
    Read by 10,144 people

    stock-market-alive

    This article was written by Charles Hugh Smith at his Of Two Minds blog.

    Editor’s Note: The stock market has always been an illusion sitting on top of an elephant on a balancing ball in a circus act… now the Federal Reserve is once again acknowledging that it will intervene at any and all costs – just to keep the confidence game going.

    Did anyone else notice that the alarming stock market plunge was followed by false reassurance by the mainstream media, and then convenient distractions in the news via tragic mass shootings and other scandals to keep our eyes elsewhere while the patchwork game to prop the market back up where completed. And, voilà… back to normalcy and new artificial highs. Everything is fine… just go back to your mobile phones and TV entertainment.

    Is the Stock Market Now “Too Big to Fail”?

    by Charles Hugh Smith

    Who knows what will trigger Fed intervention; that information is asymmetric, i.e. only known to Fed insiders.

    Correspondent Bart D. recently speculated that the U.S. stock market was now “too big to fail,” that is, that it was too integral to the global financial system and economy to be allowed to fail, i.e. decline 40+% as in previous bubble bursts.

    The U.S. stock market is integral to the global financial system in two ways.Now that investment banks, pension funds, insurers and multitudes of 401K retirement plans are dependent on current equity valuations, a crash would impair virtually the entire spectrum of finance from hedge funds to banks to insurers to pension plans.

    A decimation of these sectors would impact the U.S. economy and thus the global economy very negatively.

    By turning the health of the economy into a reflection of the stock market, the Status Quo has made the stock market into the one bellwether that matters. In effect, the stock market is now integral to the economy as a measure of sentiment and evidence that all is well with the economy as a whole.

    The stock market is now the signal everyone follows: if stocks are rising, we’re told that means the economy is healthy. Conversely, if stocks decline sharply, the implication is the economy is weak.

    In other words, it’s not just valuations that make stocks integral to the economy and Status Quo–the market’s signaling is now the key to sentiment.In economist Michael Spence’s work, the information available to participants is asymmetric: roughly speaking, those on the “inside” have better information than those on the “outside.”

    The stock market addresses this asymmetry by signaling what’s really going on via price: if the market sells off, that tells even those with little other information that all is not well in the economy.

    A rising market sends the opposite signal: everything’s going well. If the participant isn’t experiencing good times himself, he will still defer to this signal, reckoning that his own financial stagnation is an anomaly rather than the norm.

    This explains why a rising stock market is now essential to the Status Quo: if the market reverses, everyone who sees mostly stagnation in their corner of the economy will realize that is the norm, not a local aberration.

    If the stock market is now too big to fail, the Federal Reserve will have to prop it up whatever the cost. Ultimately, this may require indirect purchases of stocks–an action that other central banks are already pursuing directly or indirectly via proxies.

    This shouldn’t surprise us. After all, the Fed directly bought $1.5 trillion in mortgages (mortgage backed securities) to prop up the housing market, and a few trillion dollars in Treasury bonds to push interest rates down.

    Just as a speculative guess, perhaps the line in the sand that will trigger Fed intervention is an extension of previous tops in the S&P 500: a line that is support that the Fed cannot let become resistance.

    Just as a parlor game, let’s note that this line around 1,620 is about 100 points below the 200-week moving average at 1,711, which is about 200 points below the current level of 1,914.

    Who knows what will trigger Fed intervention; that information is asymmetric, i.e. only known to Fed insiders. Perhaps a break below 1,711 will cause the Fed to ready its financial blitzkrieg.

    A drop to 1,620 or so would represent a 23+% decline from all-time highs–a decent correction by historical standards, but one that–if reversed in short order–would not necessarily trigger a financial meltdown.

    That cannot be said of a drop that erased 50+% of the SPX’s current value. If the market is indeed now too big to fail, the Fed will be forced to take unprecedented action if the decline hurtles past correction to carnage and full-blown meltdown.

    This article was written by Charles Hugh Smith at his Of Two Minds blog.

    Click here to subscribe: Join over one million monthly readers and receive breaking news, strategies, ideas and commentary.
    Advanced Tactical Gas Mask
    Please Spread The Word And Share This Post

    Author: Charles Hugh Smith
    Views: Read by 10,144 people
    Date: September 4th, 2015
    Website: http://charleshughsmith.blogspot.com/2015/09/is-stock-market-now-too-big-to-fail.html

    Copyright Information: This content has been contributed to SHTFplan by a third-party or has been republished with permission from the author. Please contact the author directly for republishing information.

    154 Comments...

    Vote: Click here to vote for SHTF Plan as a Top Prepper Web Site
    1. TnAndy says:

      They’ve been propping it up for years, simply increasing the amount of prop as time goes on. There is no legitimate market any more….the business of Wall St is now fraud. No one with a lick of sense would go to a known rigged casino, so it’s past time to withdraw any support of a fraud stock market.

      • Acid Etch says:

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      • Acid Etch says:

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      • Doesn’t matter, really. The DJIA is just the combined cost of 30-some-odd hand-picked stocks on Dow Jones. NASDAQ? It’s a weighted average (which is a bit more accurate, but the weighting is based on each company’s size.)

        All said and done, they ain’t jack compared to Commodities (oil, grains, meats, etc), which more directly affect the price of the basics, and gives an idea of their availability (in this case, basics equal food, materials to build shelter, petroleum obviously, etc).

        What’s really lurking in the background? It is that beast we lovingly refer to as the national debt. The following link is a clear and succinct description of what it is, how it works, and how likely we are to get rid of it… and it’s the big time bomb where we don’t know when it’ll go off: http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/we’re-probably-screwed

      • Dr. G says:

        Will They prop it up the same way China has so successfully propped up their stock market the past six weeks? That turned out great. Maybe the FED’s propping up will have a similar effect on stock prices. Ya think? The FED has no more power to levitate the stock market. All the bullets have been shot. They may try, but they are finally out of their league. Nature wins this one.

        • Klemens says:

          the time of “Too Big To Fail” is over!
          It makes no sence anymore for Satans Banker to save the system. Their is no need for them to save a broken system for ever.
          So September will be the last month of Too Big To Fail.
          Somewhere between 9-11-2015 and 9-25-2015 they will let the system going down.

        • Kevin2 says:

          Dr G

          “The FED has no more power to levitate the stock market. ”

          They can create more money and money credits. They can legally transfer it to banks. Banks can legally buy equities.

          They have plenty of ammo left.

          • Plan twice, prep once says:

            The concept that the stock market is too big to fail is not that unrealistic.

            The last place for the 1% to make money that they subsequently pay taxes on, is the market. The government is desperate for that tax revenue, and to keep the 1% spending. They don’t want the velocity of money to go to zero. Plus they don’t want every 401k, and pension plan in the US wiped out. Unless of course they want the US in ashes, which is also a possibility.

            You can look at the long term charts for the GLD, and SLV, which let you see exactly when volatility vanished from those ETF’s. After the government began manipulating them, not even war made the prices of gold and silver move much. Watch for a similar change in the stock market.

            Can they stop a crash? Likely, the whole stock market is worth 16 trillion, the gov used about a trillion or two in each QE. That’s more than enough cash to totally control the market, and eliminate volatility, and any other behavior they don’t like.

            Giving money to banks in previous QE isn’t working, they just bid the market up into a bubble.

            If we do start to see a wild market crash, watch for the intervention point, where the FED and Treasury department step in. It will be the Hail Mary punt of the century, kicking the can down the road like never before. It will likely lead to war, because of its effect on the rest of the worlds economies. That intervention point will be an artificial bottom in the markets.

            If they don’t intervene it will get ugly, and reveal a more sinister agenda.

      • Jim in Va. says:

        Who’s gonna prop up the working man?

        • SterlingSilver says:

          Excuse my ignorance on this matter, but if a freefall starts, can’t they just shut the window down and suspend trading until the panic quits in an effort to stabilize the run? Didn’t China just do something similar?

          • Plan twice, prep once says:

            That does nothing to change the trend, market crashes are driven by fear and greed, if people think the market is going down, it’s going down, the day after your imposed holiday ends.

            If the crash is driven by an irrational fear that would subside in a day or two with more information. Then your market holiday would work.

            A global recession is really what’s driving this crash, the fundamentals of the markets underlying companies will be effected. There’s nothing irrational about companies loosing profits in the course of either a recession or depression. Point is when it’s time to sell, it’s time to sell!

    2. Stolz Vorfahren says:

      Regardless of all mathematical analysis by the so called experts the world focus by the 90%+ should be to destroy this parasitic family reserver system. This is the only hope to destroy the root of the evil who has caused so much pain and misery to the ordinary humans all over this planet.

      • Plan twice, prep once says:

        The bible would teach us that the poor will always be with us.

        Isn’t the corollary that the rich will always be with us?

        Yes the rich suck, but doesn’t it suck to be poor?

        Destroy all the rich people in the world, and millions will compete to replace them, and claw and climb over anyone that gets in their way, to get there!

    3. Michael Cain says:

      This is the self preservation society.

    4. For What It's Worth says:

      It’s all about OPM (Other Peoples Money) plain and simple. The OPM is starting to dry up fast now and the SHIT is about to HIT the FAN. Just prepare because soon very soon it will start meaning the end of America. RIP AMERICA!!

    5. eppe says:

      One day it WILL come crashing down.
      Anyone want to guess what the bottom will be???
      A least the Dow 30…

      • Stolz Vorfahren says:

        Bottom depends how many will jump from windows. The higher the windows the more pork chops on the street for dogs to have a free meal.

      • Russ says:

        Its odd you used 30 as the end of the drop…

        I just watched a video of Jonathan Cahn and he revealed two dreams by women who said they seen the debt clock going backwards and said it stopped at 30…they also stated they were told by God to have all preparations to be completed by the end of summer in 2015…

        more signs are appearing every day…the mockers and naysayers will mock God…but God won’t be mocked He will unleash hell on us unless we Repent and turn back to the Lord…

        Get in the will of God and stay safe all.

        Love ya all

        A loyal humble servant to Christ Jesus.
        Russ

        • Bill says:

          Dreams ? Really? Have you ever read anything in your dreams? I don’t think it can be done, they controlled by a separate part of the brain

          • Russ says:

            as I said God will not be mocked and you my friend are a naysayer and a mocker of God and I would not want to be in your shoes come judgement time…you will have a lot of explaining to do before you are cast into the Lake of Fire…

            Yes dreams are a way the good Lord speaks to some individuals…if you haven’t read the Bible, a good place to start is with Genesis…Joseph had a couple of dreams and he also interprets dreams too…also take a look at the Book of Daniel…and maybe while you are at it take a gander at the Book of Joel…Joel 2:28 to be exact. Here I’ll give you the scripture just in case you are to lazy to look it up for yourself…better yet maybe you should look so you can read it with your own eyes…

            Joel 2:28
            I will Pour Out My Spirit
            28″It will come about after this That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind; And your sons and daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dream dreams, Your young men will see visions. 29″Even on the male and female servants I will pour out My Spirit in those days.…

            See its right there in the Good Word…however if you are not a child of God you will mock what is witnessed to you…the Word tells us of mockers, such as yourself.

        • WhoDidF-nThinkIt says:

          RUSS, And what does any God have to do with any stock market? You need to flush and purge your evil demons from your mind. Its polluted as a sewer plant. You jebus freak idiots will surely die first in SHTF. Codependent like a crackhead is to cocaine.

          ~WWTI

          • passinwiththewind says:

            See, I told everyone you would not stay away. You are hooked to this site like a crackhead is to cocaine.

            It is the only place you can get your sadistic, condemnable, freak show, on. Leave us Christians alone and stick with your satanic friends, we don’t care what you have to say, because you are like dirt under our feet.

            We have the power to tread on little piss ant snakes like you.
            And tread along, we shall.

          • Russ says:

            Watch what you say about God…God is in complete control of all..He is sovereign..in fact that very breath you took came from God…whether you believe it or not…one day you will discover the power of the Lord God Almighty…

            1 Chronicles 29:11-12
            Yours, O Lord, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is yours. Yours is the kingdom, O Lord, and you are exalted as head above all. Both riches and honor come from you, and you rule over all. In your hand are power and might, and in your hand it is to make great and to give strength to all.

            Proverbs 16:9
            The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps.

    6. We’ve been talking about how the market will crash for YEARS….. it seems like “its around the corner”. How long do we wait?

    7. Satori says:

      another reminder of how VERY fragile the “just in time” JIT system is

      Are Gas Shortages Coming to America?

      ht tp://www.activistpost.com/2015/09/are-gas-shortages-coming-to-america.html

    8. Kulafarmer says:

      One big problem is that many municipal retirement funds are heavily invested in the market, so when it crashes there goes the money for paying out the retirement benefits, if this happens your state and local taxes will go up, as well as federal, its only a matter of time for the whole thing to spiral out of control, gov retirees will be demanding their retirement (dont worry , I get it they worked for it) and everybody will get their feet held to the fire to cough up the cash for it, and this will lead to some serious problems,
      You say your taking my property because i cant pay the ridiculous new taxes? Ok, here take it! Then i turn on the overhead irrigation with the chemical injector connected to a 500 gallon deisel tank that as well as the deisel has every chemical i have on hand in it, can you say 15 gallons of Tordon, nothing will grow for oh, i dont know, maybe 50 years, oh and dont mind those piles of ash where the houses used to stand….

    9. This Time For Sure says:

      So, it’s Charles Hugh Smith this time instead of Mike Snyder, Alex Jones, Dave Hodges, Gary North. NOW I’m convinced that we’re all gonna die. Wait, we were going to do that anyway sometime, so It must mean we’re all gonna die now, yes, that must be right.

    10. aljamo says:

      Corporate mergers gone hyper, Kraft bought out Heinz, I can’t remember who else they swallowed. Their food is all tainted, it was it the tobacco company R.J. Reynolds who used all their sickness and death money to take over Kraft a few years back. They didn’t care then about people’s health, so now their food production can’t be trusted either. Make slop as cheap as possible from questionable ingredients then charge sky high prices for that sickening garbage. The American way to profit. America’s store bought food is poisonous junk, anything goes. The people eat it up.

      • Dunjin says:

        They bought out Oscar Mayer as well. My father in law works for them and he tells me how 80% of their “loafs” are just jellied water. disgusting.

        • WhoDidF-nThinkIt says:

          Some Canadian Co just bought TECO electric in the Tampa FL area for $10.5 Billion. So now foreigners can jack up electric costs. Im 100% off the grid, w/ solar. Just in time to avoid that shake down.

          ~WWTI

          • Anonymous says:

            No you are Not 100% off grid. Far from it. When you have a alcohol still built and producing enough to cover all your fuel needs. If you buy propane and batteries, you are still grid dependent. WWTI, you are a legend in your own mind, and are destined to fail because of it.

    11. Mountain says:

      It closed today -272 and they act like this is OK and normal now. My in laws who havent done anything to protect their money tells me that CNN says everything is fine. I cannot even believe it anymore. I’m prepping food and water for them now, because they are elderly and are not going to have anything pretty soon. Just their pretty house in the mountains, but nothing to eat in it.

      • Kevin2 says:

        It will drop, crash, call it what you want. The Federal Reserve will create a pile of money credits which the major banks will use to buy equities. The market will stabilize and climb and its disconnect from economic reality will increase. Its QE4 which is just another act in the grandiose play highlighting, “All The World Is A Stage”.

        In the end the investment class with good timing will make out and main street will loose. The overall US standard of living drops thus increasing the world wide economic equalization which is the end goal of globalism.

    12. watching and waiting says:

      Did somebody say the Titanic would not sink?

      If it is man made,it can fail.

    13. Warchild Dammit! says:

      Eh,bow season kicks in first Sunday in Oct.,holds till then perhaps some venison,if not,perhaps long pig,it’s whats for dinner!

      Am giving a serious look at the Martin compound as a new bow,any one here use one and like it,have read a lot of good things about Martin and my buddy has 2 of their recurves which he really likes,enjoy the weekend all,unless you like me are labouring on labour day!

      • Kulafarmer says:

        At least we have labour to do!

      • WhoDidF-nThinkIt says:

        Warchild- I bought the Barnett Ghost 385 crossbow. Thats 385 FPS. Used a laser bore site on the bolt rail to sight the scope in. Took a practice shot yesterday. Its center but a foot hight. Shot right through the bales of hay and drillied it into a heavy OAK tree a full 2 inches. The practice bolt is stuck in the tree. LOL. Its very deadly.. Now just add the 2 inch razor broadhead tip to it, and yikes, lights out for anything in front of it. Another great stealth tool for rooftop voting in SHTF. The Turkey season is Sept 19th here is FL. And they are getting fat and plump. Had 22 turkeys in 2 groups come within 10 yrds of my BOL cottage porch yesterday where I sit and watch them behind a draped camo blind cover. Deer come in that close as well daily. Enie menie miny mo. Who wants to be the first to go? I could take the turkeys out with head shots with my pellet rifle 1200 fps .177. that is deadly accurate 20 yrds away and not ruin any meat. Wont go hungry out here

        ~WWTI

        • passinwiththewind says:

          When true shit hits the fan, there will be no turkeys and deer for you. The turkeys and deer don’t survive long in swamp water up to their necks.
          About all you will find is stinkin mud turtles and snakes.

          Just remember all those nasty comments about Jesus you used, when you are gnawing on a tuff piece of water moccasin, and a 30 lb. snapping turtle is chewing off your toes. Bawhahahaha!

          Have a memorable labor day weekend, loser.

        • Anonymous says:

          Come back after season and brag how many you bagged. Your stupidity of thinking it is the same hunting during season and watching them before season, combined by killing a stationary paper target, shows your deep lack of experience.

    14. Asshat says:

      Going down people. Corporate America has no one else left to rob. Can’t steal from the workers anymore to keep shareholders happy.

    15. Thor says:

      Off topic a Russian spy ship outside of a Georgia naval sub base. Chinese warships off coast of Alaska. Does everyone concur that we need to make our military stronger ???

      • Kevin2 says:

        “Does everyone concur that we need to make our military stronger ???”

        We have a dozen fleet aircraft carrier battle groups; China has none. Submarines? Ours cutting edge, aircraft and airpower forgetaboutit. We have bases around the world. China is confined to its neighborhood in Asia.

        We’re going broke keeping MIC going.

        Oh to answer your question. No.

      • Kevin2 says:

        “Does everyone concur that we need to make our military stronger ???”

        Some figures to ponder.

        The US spends as much on defense as China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, France, United Kingdom, India and Germany combined. We been doing this or more for generations creating a qualitative advantage which is referred to as a force multiplier.

        An M1A1 Abrams has never been lost in a tank to tank battle. An F-15 has never been shot down by another aircraft. The F-22 Raptor is light years ahead of the F-15.

        Our reach is global.

        • Thor says:

          What about the new radar jamming the russians used against our destroyer that we couldn’t get a lock on with our agis system???

          • Kevin2 says:

            We see their aircraft. Ours have Stealth. What you see no longer flies.

            Everyone gets a sucker punch. Especially them as any sane nation is very hesitant to shoot accidentally starting a war. Once started its “Schools Out”. It would be a short precision war. We’re better at fighting conventional forces which we’re geared up for than guerrillas with IEDs. Occupation against people that don’t want us there is not our specialty. Smoking out their conventional military is.

            • Thor says:

              We wouldn’t be fighting guerrilla warfare, just 2 superpowers who are more advanced then you are giving them credit for!

              • Kevin2 says:

                If they have some good stuff they’re keeping it hid somewhere not deployed and its damn hard to hide anything anywhere in the world.

                We’re the only true superpower as we have a worldwide reach. Both Russia and China are regional powers. Strong regional powers but regional none the less. China can control the ground it can march its troops to and resupply them. That area is significantly lowered when you don’t control the sky above your supply lines.

                The Department Of Defense in modern times would more accurately be called the Department Of Offense. Seen any Russian involvement in Mexico? Find any WMDs in Iraq? Libya was bombed with US airpower supporting AQ in removing Gadaffi from power. Syria? Its all about a gas pipeline. Its about The Powers That Be controlling everything.

                • Mr. Anonymous says:

                  @Kevin

                  The strongest military in the world with the most advanced weaponry ever seen…uh huh. I guess the US government knows everything there is to know about other country’s military capabilities.

                  • Kevin2 says:

                    Mr Anonymous

                    “I guess the US government knows everything there is to know about other country’s military capabilities.”

                    Yep, they do. Their intelligence gathering capabilities are enormous. So enormous in fact that they record and save all of the electronic transmissions, phone, internet ext of everyone in the US and it looks like overseas too.

                    When your at the top in technology and you spend as much on your military as the rest of the world combined, friend and foe you’re at the top of the heap. The budget of the US intelligence agencies is black, unknown. Factor in the shared intelligence from the UK and others and its reasonable to assume they know what Putin had for dinner.

                • Mountain Trekker says:

                  Kevin and Thor very interesting exchange, but when we see America fall, it will be from within. And its pretty well already started down that road. I’m afraid we will die from a thousand cuts. Trekker Out.

                • Kulafarmer says:

                  Dave hodges will tell you theres tons of Chinese and Rusdian troops in Mexico,,,,
                  PfffttT”;’m ha

              • slingshot says:

                Thor

                Want to see the Russian Navy? Google Map and check out the major ports. You be surprised how many rust bucket there are and some support ship sunk in the harbors.

                Then check the American Harbors.

              • old75 says:

                we have three things to take out every one thing they have.relax

        • durangokidd says:

          K2: What people need to understand when they compare spending patterns, is that these other countries do not purchase their weapons in US dollars.

          Multiply that number by their currency relationship to the dollar and you have a much more accurate number of what these countries are really spending.

          IE multiply Chinese spending by 6.3 🙂

          • durangokidd says:

            Their costs are not dollar costs. Their wages are not dollar wages. 🙂

            • Kevin2 says:

              DK

              Might be so but we have 12 Fleet nuclear powered Aircraft Carriers that are operational, with trained crews, aircraft equipped. Opposing forces none. A B2 bomber flies with impunity. Costly? Yes but we have it, they (they are the rest of the world) don’t. We have bases around the world. “They” have bases in their home country and a few limited porting agreements elsewhere. Our equipment, the best, no comparison and combat proven.

              We surround both China and Russia with military bases.

              The Powers That Be made damn sure that their Frank Nitti chief enforcer has the means to carry out their will.

              • durangokidd says:

                Agreed K2, but I am just pointing out that Russia and China are spending much, much, more money in REAL TERMS than the dollar comparison depicts.

                This error is plastered all over LSM and Alt Media, and its an ERROR !!! 🙂

    16. PO'd Patriot says:

      It’s the biggest con game the world has never known. And it WILL continue as long as a “fool and his money” happen along.

    17. Thor says:

      But if we give in or loose its lights out for the world I am not willing to surrender my freedom for anyone. I would gladly give my life for freedom of my family and wouldn’t stop even if I ran out of ammo !!!

          • Kevin2 says:

            Oh…ok.

            You mean like in “We The People”; that “We”?

            Newsflash……..beep, beep, beep……”We” don’t control the country. Internationalist Banksters control the country. For a light education watch the late George Carlins diatribe on stage about it. Read, “War Is A Racket” by 2x Medal Of Honor recipient US Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler. Read, “The Creature From Jekyll Island”, by Ed Griffin, Read, None Dare Call It A Conspiracy by Gary Allen, Read what the late ultra conservative US Senator Barry Goldwater had to say about the Trilateral Commission.

            Come back in 6 months. We’ll debate. Actually we won’t because you would see.

            Oh Best Evidence by David Lifton is pretty good too.

          • Kevin2 says:

            The greater question is, “Who Are You”?

              • Mr. Anonymous says:

                @Thor

                He seems like it. Or at the very least, an apologist telling us how powerful and mighty the US military is. Iraq, Vietnam, Afghanistan anyone?

                • WhoDidF-nThinkIt says:

                  Thor is your typical brainwashed drone military pawn. Thats why he is where he is. Stuck on a balony boat.served shit on a shingle daily. And loves it.

                  ~WWTI

                • Kevin2 says:

                  The US is absolutely the most militarily and economically powerful nation. The bad news is the citizens don’t control it and haven’t in quite some time. What is sold as defense is for the most part attempts at consolidation and control for the economic interests of internationalist bankers. Its been written about in establishment circles. One just need read the letter from Franklin Roosevelt to Col House regarding the power and control of the banking establishment on US policy.

                  Personal attacks upon me don’t change the facts.

                • Kevin2 says:

                  The real truth of the matter is,as you and I know, that a financial
                  element in the large centers has owned the government ever since
                  the days of Andrew Jackson… -Franklin D. Roosevelt
                  (in a letter to Colonel House, dated November 21, 1933)

                  Its only got worse.

                • Kevin2 says:

                  Mr Anonymous

                  “He seems like it. Or at the very least, an apologist telling us how powerful and mighty the US military is. Iraq, Vietnam, Afghanistan anyone?”

                  As I stated quite clearly the US is great at fighting conventional forces. It can do a scorched earth policy like Sherman through Georgia. Its the aftermath of occupation that is difficult as is seen in the three examples above. We don’t do too well occupying a country that just doesn’t want to be occupied and fighting guerrillas in the process. I’m certainly not condoning the above excursions into madness as all have roots that have nothing to do with defense but everything to do with globalist consolidation.

                • Anonymous says:

                  you fool, they won every battle. the congress lost the occupation.

                  • Kevin2 says:

                    General Giap said something similar when a US General said, “We never lost a battle”. He stated, “This is true but it is also irrelevant”.

                    Giap stated at the start of US main force units entering Vietnam in 1965, “I will loose 10 of my men for everyone of yours but you will eventually tire and leave”. “I cannot leave for I have nowhere else to go”.
                    Westmorland was the fool. Read, “A Bright Shining Lie” by John Paul Vann.

                    When a civilian population does not want to be governed and they are even rudimentary armed they make a successful occupation so difficult, frustrating and costly that it becomes impossible for the occupier to successfully govern. The Germans were tired of the NAZIs and the Japanese, subservient to the Emperor obeyed orders and peacefully surrendered. If The Emperor Of Japan told them to fight to the death we would still be having problems there at least on a limited scale.

                  • Kevin2 says:

                    Anonymous

                    “you fool, they won every battle. the congress lost the occupation.”

                    I have a guess. It’s only a guess but a somewhat, self educated one, that the goal is to destroy the governing in the Islamic Middle East and create and foster kayos intentionally. A fractured society cannot control its own destiny. With a cohesive government they might get ideas like using something other than the US dollar for their oil. Its kind of like what the British did with the Ottoman Empire when BP found oil in 1928 and created governments changing borders to their liking. They gave the Saudi family the former Arabia. This may be a natural course of events but with the meddling of US/UK intelligence agencies and seeing for instance Libya go from the highest standard of living in Africa to something resembling Somalia I have to lean towards it all being intentional.

                • Mountain Trekker says:

                  Rest assured, America is the lone World Super Power,and even at that, America wants to be controlled by someone or something. And that “Something is the United Nations” and to the afore mentioned wars you can add the Korean war. Americas greatest problem is that we are unable or unwilling to do the Coup de gras, it is no longer in our DNA and hasn’t been since WW2. And as for the commenters on this site, it seems we can’t agree to disagree without making personel attacks. Some exchanges are very interesting but name calling or accusations take away from the point. Trekker Out.

              • Anonymous says:

                So, anyone that does not agree with you, Dale and Bravefart is a troll. First thing they type when someone disagrees with them.

    18. Thor says:

      They are both nuclear period.

    19. Econman says:

      This commenter Thor was obviously hit in the head by the superhero Thor’s hammer (named Mjulnir).

      Hopefully his head injuries heal & he comes back to Earth.

    20. Thor says:

      Kevin2 is a troll for everyone’s info in future posts !!!

    21. boo boo says:

      wow! this website has really hit skid row!

    22. Ron Ahrens says:

      The stock market is the only shiny bauble of hope left for the coward pussy Zombie filth in the most fascist evil vile disgusting society the world has ever known.

      • Kevin2 says:

        “most fascist evil vile disgusting society the world has ever known.”

        It certainly is corrupt as corruption is institutionalized, it’s definitely hypocritical, its more amoral than immoral believing the ends justify the means but its a far cry from the statement above. We haven’t built death camps like the NAZI’s and starved to death 10-20 million of our own people like Stalin.

        • lena says:

          you’re so far off, its just sad.

          kevin2 is right, what’s going on now is nothing like the Nazis, it’s also nothing like stalin, or many dictators have done in the far east or many dictators may even do today in Africa.

          is the stock mkt a rigged game to make the elite stay on top; yes; but that has been the financial game for 500 years and probably long before.

          unfortunately, this article is right and all the market crash articles usually posted here are wrong. the elite is going to keep this going going as long as they can(japan has done what the usa just started 5 years ago for 20 years).

          my guess is a world war or serious inflation comes around to get them out and let the game restart but the dow at 2000 like Harvey dent propses isn’t going to happen because that would squash too much money from the real players.

          • Kevin2 says:

            lena

            Regarding the stock market it functioned not too badly until Glass-Steagall was abandoned in the late 90s. Banks can now buy equities (stocks) with money out of thin air (complements of stopping the Bretton Woods Agreement in 1971 favor of pure fiat currency) completely distorting relative values.

            I know a lot of blue collar millionaires that are frightened to death because they understand that the system them made good returns under no longer exists. Its now like playing poker with players that can create Aces, Kings and Queens on demand.

    23. deanf says:

      Pretty neat trick when you can print money out of thin air and use it to buy tangible assets.

    24. aljamo says:

      Kevin 2 has it right. The U.S. and their allies can and do control the world through their overwhelming military superiority. Quite obscene, just the admitted funding all to the detriment of peace in the world. When George W. took office the defense budget was over 300 billion yearly, it’s now more than double that and TPTB want further increases. Safe to say, they don’t care about people, they only care about resources and total control. Do you hear anyone calling for cutting this monumental wasteful spending? That’s how much control they have.

      • Thor says:

        Europe would be obliterated if Russia attacked. Russia has 30 megaton atomic warheads the largest made. They also have ships called carrier killers su27s,mig35s ect. China has anti ship missiles that are inert meaning they just make a large hole in what they hit and can’t be detonated in the air. As far as the radar jamming goes if agis can’t lock on a target neither can missle systems duh. Russia’s new tank is considered better then our M1 Abrams. China is building up and we are cutting back,fact! China can also pick off our satellites, which is what our military is based on,at will and there is more reason to my wanting build up. Korea, China’s nuclear armed chihuahua, Iran’s death to America speeches. Recently a retired Russian general said if he were at war with America he would set off a nuke in the Yellowstone volcano. One may disagree with views but not facts. Period.

        • Kevin2 says:

          “Russia has 30 megaton atomic warheads the largest made.”

          So? Russia a nuclear armed nation can destroy Europe. Newsflash, they could do that six decades ago too. One Trident boomer sub can take out 240 cities and industrial centers. That’s one sub. Can you name 240 cities in Russia? I can’t name 240 cities in the US. No nation survives the utter destruction of 240 cities. MAD Mutually ASSURED Destruction keeps the peace. We have plenty of it.

          AGIS. The Russian aircraft over few the cruiser. You ain’t getting that close.

          “Russia’s new tank is considered better then our M1 Abrams.” So say who? The makers of US tanks? That was said about the T series of their tanks. They were laid to waste in the deserts of the middle east.

          Korea? That dark place in Asia. The country that had its fission bomb do a pre-fission fizzle? The country with diesel powered submarines? GTFOOH

          “they hit and can’t be detonated in the air”
          So? You don’t need to set off the missiles warhead to destroy it. Actually its undesirable to do so.

          We roughly spend as much on our military as damn near the rest of the world combined, friend and foe.

          “nuke in the Yellowstone volcano”
          So? One Trident sub………one……just one and good by 240 cities and industrial centers. We have a few thousand nuclear weapons? You think we need more?

        • Kevin2 says:

          Missed this one.

          “su27s,mig35s”

          No stealth, no survive.

          MIGs did not fare well at all against F-15s. So badly in fact that its something like 100+ for us. Zero for them. Zero is embracing. Who the hell wants any weapons they have except AK-47s and RPGs (which I’ll give you are simplicity and reliability). A F-22 Raptor is in a class by itself.

          Ever read the book Mig Pilot? It was about Lt Victor Blenko (or similar spelling, Russian ain’t my thing). The much feared Mig 25 Foxbat was a heavy, primitive piece of crap. Great book. You do read don’t you?

          • Thor says:

            1)No need stealth if can’t get lock.2)T14 has a radar blocker,inferred blocker,armor that can defeat any NATO round and is faster then the Abram.3) The Chinese inert anti ship missle war head will continue to travel to target even if the rocket is hit. 4) If radar jamming is working and the AIMs can’t lock and the su27 or su35 which both have multi directional thrust vectoring, (f22 only has up & down vectoring) its a toss up.(article from daily beast). I agree about the foxbat it was only built for one mission, to shoot down sr71s. Which never happened so it was a total failure. 5) If one nuke triggered the volcano it would put at the very least America into a nuclear winter. Here is an Idea check out nuke maps and see what kind of devastation a 30 megaton missle can do if fired at the southern east coast. The jetstream will carry fallout past DC. Then look at our strongest warhead.

    25. Kevin2 says:

      You can’t shelter 100+ million people. You can’t survive the carnage post nuclear exchange. Instant stone age.

      “The Chinese inert anti ship missle war head will continue to travel to target even if the rocket is hit.”

      GTFOOH. Hell just cover aircraft with what its made out of and its impossible to shoot down. This stuff is getting comical.

      One Trident takes out 240 cities…..deterrence……Kill every American and your still destroyed

      They gave up on multi MT fusion bombs. Thats a “who has the biggest penis”100Kt is the ideal size.

    26. Kevin2 says:

      ” If radar jamming is working and the AIMs can’t lock and the su27 or su35 which both have multi directional thrust vectoring, (f22 only has up & down vectoring) its a toss up.(article from daily beast).”

      The Raptor gets them unseen. No “if radar jamming works” as its invisible to radar. I see you. You don’t see me. Its a blind man in a fist fight.

      The technological advancements we possess is a huge advancement. Transistor USA, computer chip, USA, stealth USA. We invent, we develop and if Russia is real good they copy some of it. We outspend them by 10 x with a far more advanced technological infrastructure.

      More? Hell we spend more than enough right now.

    27. aljamo says:

      Sure it’s said that Russia has shelters in country for their people while the U.S. has them only for the elite. If true, which country cares more about their own people? The U.S. is the military arm of the NWO aggressor. They would not be pushing their weight around over the entire world if they could not back it up. Are these other powers threatening America? Of course not. Is America encroaching on their territory. Most assuredly. We’ve met the enemy, it is our government.

      • Kevin2 says:

        In event of a nuclear war protect yourself with these steps.

        1. Go to the lowest point of your home, the basement.

        2. Go to the wall where the explosion is most likely to come from.

        3. Bend over.

        4. Pull your pants down.

        5. Kiss your ass good by.

        Sheltering 100 million people? Hell sheltering a million? Insanity, a very false sense of security.

    28. Thor says:

      You are right this is getting comical. You don’t seem to understand radar and radar jamming. If jammed a radar screen becomes white, meaning you can’t see anything which means you can’t get a missile lock on something you can’t see on radar!!! Do you know the three different types of radar??? The difference is the sweep rate! Let me explain how the inert warhead works. The missile is launched and goes up really high and then comes down really fast like gravity pulling it. Straight down with the warhead made out of armor plating material,solid no explosives. It puts hole in ship. Ship sinks because of hole and no cork. Chances of nuclear war increase with each country possessing them. Then there is a war. One sides makes the decision to launch or it could be a preemptive first strike like an EMP or attacking a volcano. Duck and cover and get under the desk!!!

        • Kevin2 says:

          Tired of debating absolute nonsense of kinetic energy missiles that can’t be shot down.

          We haven’t lost a B2. Lost a F-117 because of visual ground fire in Kosovo. Regardless what kind of Radar we have Stealth.

          China & Russia in conventional trim are regional powers; we’re global. Nuclear; 100kt or 30Mt makes no difference when you possess several thousand weapons when only several hundred would bring a nation as Curtis LeMay said, “Back into the stone age”.

          We spend about as much as the entire world on weapons and its well plenty. Actually overkill.

          • Thor says:

            We spend more because our nation is free (so to speak) while the others are ruled with an iron fist of communism. We have the right to keep and bare arms while other countries do not. If we ever lose this we will not be a free nation. Hence the revolutionary war was started on this. Rules of war: never underestimate your enemy,never say they won’t do that because if you can think of something they can too, and if you can end a war go for the juggler and kill it asap.(also for every armor there is something going to be devised to defeat it and visa versa)!!!

            • Thor says:

              Check the CIA world book.

              • Kevin2 says:

                We spend more because the US Military does Wall Streets bidding. The “war on terror” is a sham. Its purpose is to allow the Military unfettered to do the banksters will. President Eisenhower warned us about the Military Industrial Complex. Kennedy was assassinated to get us Vietnam. We haven’t had a legal war since WWII.

                With little exception Communism is gone overseas but being instituted here at the bottom with fascism at the very top.

                News Flash….you, me, us, “We The People”, don’t control the policy’s of the USA. Your not a Free Nation now. Vote Dem or Rep and you get the same foreign policy and the same economic policy. You have no more true political control of the USA than a Soviet citizen did over the USSR in 1970.

                • Thor says:

                  Try to protest in China Tiananmen square. How about the Russian reporter executed on the bridge for opposing Putin. Black lives matter would be gunned down with a C130 gunship if they didn’t want it to happen. Just a thought.

                  • Kevin2 says:

                    You can speak here. You can protest here. What you can’t do is change anything as, “The Establishment” has it wrapped up. Its like debating in a closet; So what because nothing will be accomplished.

                    Think that political people are not killed here for political reasons? Read about the 43 people that never testified and had knowledge of some useful capacity in the JFK assassination. Loyd’s of London actuary computed the likelihood of such a thing being in the trillions. The ones that supposedly killed themselves were for the most part with circumstances that are truly unbelievable. Thats on purpose, no accident. Intimidation, we’ll do it, it will be obvious and still nothing will happen. Recently a pile of bankers were turning up dead. Jumping out of windows and what not. One shot himself several times with a nail gun, 6 or 7 times in the stomach and chest before putting one in his head. It was ruled a suicide. That sound plausible to you?

                    It happens here. The Russians are more thuggery as the Chinese are too.

                    Just a thought.

              • Kevin2 says:

                Check the CIA world book.

                And what do I look up? The fact that the USA and Russia have roughly 15000 nukes split pretty much evenly between them. Damn……..France capped themselves at 300 and no one is invading France. Hell no one would invade India for that matter.

                General Dynamics just loves MIC. Oh they are MIC.

                • Thor says:

                  Just Muslim extremists.

                • Thor says:

                  Reasons for a higher military budget: 1) the world is a very dangerous place. 2) terrorists 3) Communist governments are building up their arms 4) the middle east is about to go nuclear. 5) it is better to have and not need than need and not have!!!

                  • Kevin2 says:

                    Those “extremists” . Armed and funded by the CIA. Libya decides to trade oil in gold not US Dollars. Magically a revolution occurs and Libya has the highest standard of living in Africa. Who is at the core of this? AQ the same people that brought you 911. US airpower, without Congressional approval helps them remove Gadaffi from power. Gets better. First thing done the Libyan gold is taken and no one knows where it went. The Weapons taken by AQ go to form ISIS. ISIS moves a convoy of captured weapons through Iraq and they are not touched. They get near a Syrian oil refinery and we bomb it. Syria is fighting ISIS too but they don’t bomb their own refinery.

                    Iraq….oh WMD, were certain WMD. Nope , Saddam was trading his oil in Euros thus breaking the oil peg (read up on oil peg and US reserve currency).

                    They been doing this stuff for years but it was covert. Now they could care less if you know as they control the Main Stream Media (Free Nation?). In the early 1950s they removed a Democratically elected leader from power in Iran and put in the Shah . So much for fighting for Freedom & Democracy.

                    Care to go into how Vietnam occurred? How we stopped a Democratic Election from taking place, went back on our word to Hi Chi Minh?

                    Read , Trading With The Enemy”. US business doing business with NAZI Germany during WWII, caught, fined $50,000. Standard Oil selling the NAZI’s oil in Argentina and fined $50,000.

                    The banksters want to control the entire world and US kids fight and die for their bull crap ostensible reasons.

                    The world you see is not the world that is.

    29. Ketchupondemand says:

      Agree and well stated Kevin.

    30. aljamo says:

      Just like the U.S. nuked Japan twice when they were trying to surrender. They carpet bombed the whole country except those two cities to set an example and try out their nuclear weapons on a guinea pig population. Now the lies are stacking up revealing the false flag exploits to growing numbers of people. The only answer is now we the American people are terrorists, so conduct yourself accordingly. The last time a Republican was elected president without a Nixon or Bush on the ticket was 1928. That proves both sides are all one war party.

      • Thor says:

        My Dad fought in that war. Japanese doing samurai charges they really did not want to surrender. Death before dishonor was the samurai code. He told me stories of them in caves at the end of the war even after they had surrendered burning them out with flame throwers because they didn’t believe the Emperor surrendered and the were shooting at us. We even brought in translators but they refused to believe. The surrendered because they didn’t want to be annihilated.

        • Kevin2 says:

          Thank God that the Emperor of Japan (can’t spell his name for shit) told his disciplined people to surrender because if he said, “Fight To The Death” we may very well be still fighting them. The Vietnamese fought China for 1000 years.

          My Father was on a Liberty Ship off the coast of Miami slated to cross the canal for training in the Philippines for the invasion. He had a few “words” with his base commander in England in the Air Corps and was transferred to Army Infantry. The ship stopped, sat for a week off the coast and then dropped them off in Florida, “war is over boys”.

          It was the last truly justified war we been in.

          • grandee says:

            os·ten·si·bly

            adverb
            apparently or purportedly, but perhaps not actually.
            “portrayed as a blue-collar type, ostensibly a carpenter”
            synonyms: apparently, seemingly, on the face of it, to all intents and purposes, outwardly, superficially, allegedly, supposedly, purportedly
            “it is ostensibly a book about football”

    31. Thor says:

      Peace through strength the American way!!! Wars are fought if an enemy detects a weakness. Riddle me this batman? the Muslim brotherhood was in said areas but got kicked out in Egypt and we gave them Abrams and f16s.

    32. Kevin2 says:

      “Communist governments are building up their arms”

      I assume that your referring to China. Just a reminder the Berlin Wall fell.

      Speaking of China and their arms buildup the US government bailed out GM (General Motors) with the ostensible (their’s that word again) to save US jobs. Where did the money go you may ask? It financed the construction of GM factories in………..drum roll please………China.

      “Wars are fought if an enemy detects a weakness. ”

      We’re creating the things (its not war when you literally support and create the opposition) its neither a conflict but rather some kind of corrupt hybrid scheme to manipulate public opinion to justify military takeovers of nations for the banksters. The US won’t send its kids to support the continuation of the oil peg/US Reserve Currency system but bake it with the word threat, put freedom icing on it and the body politic eats it up.

      “Muslim brotherhood was in said areas but got kicked out in Egypt and we gave them Abrams and f16s.”

      Lets say, “Moved on” to new duties. Their the core of AQ.

      Doesn’t the entire Syria opposition look strange to you? They’re fighting Islamic Religious Fanatics too. We’re simultaneously supporting ISIS and ostensibly fighting ISIS and bombing Syrian infrastructure in the process. It takes little IQ and vision to see that this is about Syria and a gas pipeline. We helped to hand over stable Islamic governments to crazies post 911? You can’t see the problem? Can’t believe your being lied to? The better question is when were you last told the truth?

      • Thor says:

        It was stable until Obama and yes he does lie a lot. Albeit Bush should not have gone into Iraq. Iran was always the Enemy.

        • Kevin2 says:

          The very goal is to create instability. Do you believe that two months into office Obama decides to overthrow Libya? The President is a figure head that serves the purpose to sell a foreign policy thought of outside of government circles. Look up Bulderburg Group, Trilateral Commission, Council Of Foreign Relations.

          Iran is an enemy for the same reason Syria is the enemy. Its because they stand in the way of a complete domination of the Middle East gas pipeline that the US, UK and Saudi Arabia (the core of terrorist crazies). Its Russia, Iran & Syria with one piping system verses US, UK, Turkey and Saudi Arabia on the other. Its about resources but painted with “Freedom”, “Terrorism” (while we fund terrorists).

          Read the books I suggested. Your thoughts post reading will be, “Oh My God”.

          • Kevin2 says:

            They want failed states in the Middle East, dysfunctional governments incapable of economically organizing. Once the USSR and global communism fell apart and dissolved it was time to:

            1. Export US / Developed world industrial capacity to the 3rd world without the true consent of the people in the democracies that lost their employment.

            2. Control entire worlds resources.

            3. Dismantle small governments that have resources creating failed states. Libya was the best nation in Africa and now its becoming Somalia.

            4. Use the US Military to facilitate and enforce the above with special emphasis on maintaining the US dollar as the worlds reserve currency.

            5. Icing on the cake was the de-regulation of the Investment Banking Industry allowing the biggest thieves in world history that cross national borders an opportunity to take everything they can.

            Presidents are puppets. As FDR said, “Presidents aren’t elected they’re selected”. If Romney won the foreign / economic policy would be the same.

        • Kevin2 says:

          Thor

          “it Bush should not have gone into Iraq.”

          Your missing the point here. Bw Bush did not go into Iraq because of WMD, terrorism or because Saddam was a bad man and his sons raped women.

          GH Bush went into Iraq to prevent the oil peg, the cornerstone of the US economic system post abandoning the gold standard of Bretton Woods Agreement from falling apart. The entire war was a sham. No mistake, no oops we were wrong, it was 100% based on an intentional lie.

    33. Thor says:

      GM going to China 2 words Cheap labor. Why is Nabisco going to Mexico cheap labor and drum roll please taxes.

      • Kevin2 says:

        The point is its not being done with the support of “We The People”. “We The People” were told that the GM money was for US jobs. Democrat or Republican you don’t control squat. Your tax dollars are subsidizing GMs enlargement in China.

        You don’t control foreign policy. You have no say over the economic direction which supports the de-industrialization of the US. Their fighting wars, hell starting wars for Wall Street, not your protection.

        Back to the Military. They are protecting the interests of globalist bankers not you. Its sad but, “Thats The Fact Jack”.

        • Thor says:

          I am not agreeing with the actions of the government, but I do support a strong military. Maybe if we are lucky the military will overthrow the government and put it back like it is supposed to be and all the scum can be thrown in the dungeon!!! Anyone???

          • Kevin2 says:

            I’m not against the Military. I’m against who and why its being used. I’m against killing a million Vietnamese. I’m against it being used to prop up a failed banking system that had the US functionally bankrupt in 1971 and literally threatening governments into the continued use of the USD. I’m against drumming up false threats like WMD and US kids coming home crippled or in a box thinking that they’re protecting their country.

    34. aljamo says:

      My dad was also in WW2, Company B, 172nd Combat Engineers. He spent two years in Europe. I have his DD214 release papers. He took his own life in Feb 1956, a week before my 6th birthday. He left behind 5 kids aged 3-7 years. In later years my mother told me the horrible stories he told her. He lost all but one of his buddies. This is the reason of my hatred for war, that and being drafted to be sent to Vietnam. I hate the war mongers like no other hate possible. The dead died for nothing in my opinion.

      • Thor says:

        A true soldier hates war because he knows what it is,war. Lives will be lost and you never want to take a life but sometimes it is necessary so evil people do not succeed. My condolences to you and your family. They attacked Pearl harbor on my Dads 17 birthday. He lied to get in I guess he took it personally.

      • Kevin2 says:

        aljamo

        My belated condolences.

        I’m amazed that the approximately 2 or so million US Military people that seen real combat up close out of the 12 million that served faired as well as they did post WWII. I think coming home to great employment opportunities for the most part was helpful. From Vietnam on that has been declining and to a great degree is non existent for many.

        I found out a decade ago that my Uncle was awarded a Bronze Star with V device and purple heart for his service in WWII. He landed with the 4th Infantry Division on Utah (fortunately). He ended up liberating a few concentration camps too. Jimmy worked for DuPont becoming an operations supervisor, fished and never said a word about his time in the service until the local news paper did an article about vets and he was included in it.

        • Thor says:

          My Uncle was in the paratroopers in Europe captured behind lines and went to a German pow camp. My Cousin flew a p51 and got shot down and died in Europe. My Dad did get a purple heart for a piece of shrapnel from a mortar round and after the war became a DI. My wife’s Dad served in Korea and Vietnam. He got run over by a jeep by a NV inside a friendly zone three times ,messed him up for a year then he became a DI afterwards. Small world.

     
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